GabiThume/gist:5595096

## gistfile1.irclog
May 06 16:46:47 <gabithume>  paroneayea, Hi! I was looking to PhantonJS because ticket #458 and I was thinking about trying casperJS (http://casperjs.org/) for high-level functional tests, should I create some tests on mediagoblin repos?
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May 06 16:51:48 <paroneayea>	hey gabithume
May 06 16:51:49 <paroneayea>	looking
May 06 16:52:50 <paroneayea>	gabithume: hm, what would casperjs give us that we wouldn't have with phantomjs?
May 06 16:52:57 <paroneayea>	(also, what do you think of selenium?)
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May 06 17:06:35 <gabithume>	well, phantomjs is the headless webkit -- it is not a test framework but provides a consistent API to webkit routines (e.g. render, http request, ...) -- so I think we can use casperjs to make easy to do navigational/functional tests as needed
May 06 17:07:25 *	AndroBug (~androbug@pdpc/supporter/active/thelovebug) has joined #mediagoblin
May 06 17:08:02 <paroneayea>	gabithume: aha
May 06 17:08:29 <paroneayea>	gabithume: my other concern might be on the dependency end
May 06 17:08:30 <gabithume>	however there are lots of test frameworks on top of phantomjs, I don't know which is better, maybe I should start by testing one
May 06 17:09:09 <paroneayea>	I like the minimalism of phantomjs and friends, though I'm also nervous about "yet another dependency not packaged in many distros" :)
May 06 17:09:27 <paroneayea>	I think that's my main reason for being pro-selenium
May 06 17:09:37 <paroneayea>	that might not be a good enough reason
May 06 17:10:10 <gabithume>	I understand.. I can give a try in selenium then
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May 06 17:10:37 <gabithume>	should I create a dir and include some functional tests?
May 06 17:10:49 *	AndChat-511 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
May 06 17:11:53 <paroneayea>	gabithume: that would be awesome.
May 06 17:12:04 <paroneayea>	:)
May 06 17:12:39 <gabithume>	paroneayea, ok! thank you!
May 06 17:15:10 <paroneayea>	thank *you* gabithume ! :)
May 06 17:16:28 <spaetz>	Elrond: No, I am not doing pluggable auth. Security's over my head
May 06 17:16:42 <spaetz>	and good night, by the way :-). See you tomorrow.
May 06 17:17:37 <paroneayea>	lata spaetz
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May 06 17:38:44 <gabithume>	hmm I think you are right about using Selenium... Selenium is not headless -- we will need to make sure to have our browsers running -- but has the advantage to be browser agnostic while Phantomjs is headless but webkit-specific
May 06 17:38:54 <gabithume>	 I'm going to take note about it as ticket comments
May 06 17:39:37 <joar>	selenium launches the browser automatically and separately from the browser you're using.
May 06 17:40:32 <joar>	I can't tell for sure, but they probably start it up without an associated profile, so it will be an isolated environment from your own browser setup.
May 06 17:40:47 <gabithume>	it so cool
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May 06 17:41:54 <gabithume>	so, going with selenium...
May 06 17:42:28 <joar>	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11226648/is-it-possible-to-use-selenium-web-driver-to-drive-phantomjs
May 06 17:45:27 <joar>	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6995016/what-is-the-difference-between-selenium-ide-server-rc-2-0-and-webdriver/6996322#6996322
May 06 17:46:51 <joar>	http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/javascript-ajax/headless-functional-testing-with-selenium-and-phantomjs/
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May 06 17:50:03 <Elrond>	So you're trying to create unit testing for js?
May 06 17:51:08 <gabithume>	joar, thank you!!
May 06 17:51:18 <joar>	:)
May 06 17:51:56 <paroneayea>	Elrond: functional testing! :)
May 06 17:52:03 <paroneayea>	well, and probably js unit tests too
May 06 17:52:36 <paroneayea>	oh wow cool, phantomjs thru selenium!
May 06 17:54:29 <gabithume>	Elrond, I am trying to start with simple navigational tests to learn about selenium and I think I can go to js tests ASAP
May 06 17:54:38 <gabithume>	any tips about functional tests for js Elrond?
May 06 17:55:40 <gabithume>	paroneayea, yeah! we can drive phantomjs using selenium :-)
May 06 17:55:46 <paroneayea>	so awesome.
May 06 17:55:52 <paroneayea>	gabithume: you effin' rock
May 06 17:56:56 <gabithume>	:)
May 06 17:59:41 <Elrond>	Stupid question: What exactly was functional testing again?
May 06 18:01:05 <Elrond>	paroneayea, gabithume - What about writing a failing test for this? http://issues.mediagoblin.org/ticket/689
May 06 18:02:39 <paroneayea>	Elrond: more of "testing user behaviors"
May 06 18:02:44 <paroneayea>	as if a user doing things in the browser
May 06 18:03:02 <paroneayea>	actually, we do this kind of with webtest, our u"unit tests" with webtests are often closer to functional tests
May 06 18:03:11 <paroneayea>	in the way they mimic user behavior
May 06 18:03:31 <paroneayea>	but using selenium and etc will actually give us the power of a real browser to make sure things really "appear" the right wayto a user
May 06 18:04:51 <Elrond>	We should not have too many selenium tests. I guess, they're slow?
May 06 18:05:52 <paroneayea>	it would not be surprising for them to be slow I suppose
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May 06 18:06:35 <Elrond>	Some of our functional tests are trying to be unit tests...
May 06 18:07:20 <joar>	they're as fast as an impossibly fast user is at navigating the site.
May 06 18:07:41 <paroneayea>	they do need to start up and shut down the browser I suppose
May 06 18:07:50 <joar>	so, slow, compared to what we have today, I think, since I guess there's no networking at all involved in current tests.
May 06 18:08:18 <joar>	You could clean the state of the browser too.
May 06 18:08:22 <joar>	that would be faaster.
May 06 18:09:05 <joar>	http://code.google.com/p/selenium/issues/detail?id=40
May 06 18:09:12 <joar>	You can't clear the cache.
May 06 18:09:16 *	paroneayea wonders how this would affect running with -n5
May 06 18:09:22 <paroneayea>	joar: oh really??
May 06 18:09:23 <joar>	hehehe
May 06 18:09:32 <joar>	it just says 'the cache'
May 06 18:09:35 <joar>	don't know about cookies
May 06 18:09:57 <joar>	http://sqa.stackexchange.com/questions/2881/selenium-2-0-webdriver-clearing-session-data
May 06 18:10:18 <gabithume>	so, maybe I can try to write a test with selenium to #689?
May 06 18:10:29 <joar>	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2191189/clear-session-cookies-with-selenium-ide
May 06 18:12:07 <joar>	https://github.com/ariya/phantomjs/wiki/API-Reference-phantom#clearcookies-void
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May 06 18:13:19 <Elrond>	sqa.sx?! Ooookay.
May 06 18:13:39 <joar>	sqa.sx?
May 06 18:14:26 <Elrond>	<joar> http://sqa.stackexchange.com/...
May 06 18:14:56 <Elrond>	I didn't know about that SX site.
May 06 18:15:02 <joar>	Me neither :)
May 06 18:15:50 <joar>	bedtime!
May 06 18:15:52 <joar>	good night :)
May 06 18:16:04 <Elrond>	Alothough beta SX sites can be quite nice.
May 06 18:16:47 <joar>	in short, seems cookie deletion is inconsistent across browsers.
May 06 18:16:55 <joar>	haven't found an anser to how it works in phantomjs
May 06 18:17:12 <joar>	should be in here though: https://github.com/detro/ghostdriver/tree/master/src
May 06 18:18:12 <Elrond>	gabithume - If you want to? I guess, this would be a good thing. I have not commited the patch in that ticket for two reasons: No unit test and I don't know enough about js to be sure my patch is correct.
May 06 18:18:44 <Elrond>	gabithume - And we're trying to have tests (unit or functional) for our bugs. So they don't come back, ever.
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May 06 18:20:02 <joar>	at least not until they mutate ;o)
May 06 18:20:18 <Elrond>	*G*
May 06 18:20:52 <gabithume>	Elrond, I understand, I'm going to try to setup a selenium test environment here and include/document in my mg fork, I guess it can be a start
May 06 18:22:32 <Elrond>	gabithume - Just curious: Is that for gsoc/opw?
May 06 18:23:28 *	youlysses (~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) has joined #mediagoblin
May 06 18:23:51 <gabithume>	Elrond, I am applying to opw :)
May 06 18:24:28 <Elrond>	gabithume - Ahh, okay.
May 06 18:24:55 <gabithume>	 so I'm trying to understand better mediagoblin
May 06 18:29:39 <Elrond>	gabithume - Writing selenium functional tests for it is a tough thing, I think.
May 06 18:30:27 <joar>	infrastructure might be tough
May 06 18:30:40 <joar>	writing the tests should not be terribly awful
May 06 18:31:20 <joar>	and if gabithume just gets something that's up and working we can figure out the best way to stuff selenium and phantomjs into the shelves.
May 06 18:31:43 <joar>	I really have to go to bed now though. Good luck and good night :)
May 06 18:32:50 <Elrond>	Good night joar!
May 06 18:33:15 *	AndChat|511 (~androbug@pdpc/supporter/active/thelovebug) has joined #mediagoblin
May 06 18:33:24 <gabithume>	joar, sure! sorry to bother, and thanks for all the advises, I'll try to setup and ping you guys later again, good night!
May 06 18:33:35 <gabithume>	Elrond, are you applying for opw as well?
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May 06 18:36:04 <Elrond>	gabithume - No. I have to finish my phd. No time for this stuff. And need to find a job.
May 06 18:38:12 <gabithume>	Elrond, cool then! Can I know what is the subject of your phd?
May 06 18:40:45 <Elrond>	gabithume - theoretical analysis for NMR stuff (Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, probably best known for the MRI scanner in the hospital). Except I know only what wikipedia knows about MRI scanners. ;)
May 06 18:42:16 <gabithume>	Elrond, wow amazing! physics major?
May 06 18:43:11 <Elrond>	Yep.
May 06 18:43:33 *	capo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
May 06 18:43:46 <Elrond>	Probably "master" is the right english term. german "Diplom".
May 06 18:46:53 <gabithume>	oh, ok! :)
	May 06 16:46:47 <gabithume> paroneayea, Hi! I was looking to PhantonJS because ticket #458 and I was thinking about trying casperJS (http://casperjs.org/) for high-level functional tests, should I create some tests on mediagoblin repos?
	May 06 16:48:20 * LotusEcho (~LotusEcho@2620:0:2820:1400:20c2:ffa1:f60f:b7be) has joined #mediagoblin
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	May 06 16:51:48 <paroneayea> hey gabithume
	May 06 16:51:49 <paroneayea> looking
	May 06 16:52:50 <paroneayea> gabithume: hm, what would casperjs give us that we wouldn't have with phantomjs?
	May 06 16:52:57 <paroneayea> (also, what do you think of selenium?)
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	May 06 17:06:35 <gabithume> well, phantomjs is the headless webkit -- it is not a test framework but provides a consistent API to webkit routines (e.g. render, http request, ...) -- so I think we can use casperjs to make easy to do navigational/functional tests as needed
	May 06 17:07:25 * AndroBug (~androbug@pdpc/supporter/active/thelovebug) has joined #mediagoblin
	May 06 17:08:02 <paroneayea> gabithume: aha
	May 06 17:08:29 <paroneayea> gabithume: my other concern might be on the dependency end
	May 06 17:08:30 <gabithume> however there are lots of test frameworks on top of phantomjs, I don't know which is better, maybe I should start by testing one
	May 06 17:09:09 <paroneayea> I like the minimalism of phantomjs and friends, though I'm also nervous about "yet another dependency not packaged in many distros" :)
	May 06 17:09:27 <paroneayea> I think that's my main reason for being pro-selenium
	May 06 17:09:37 <paroneayea> that might not be a good enough reason
	May 06 17:10:10 <gabithume> I understand.. I can give a try in selenium then
	May 06 17:10:20 * AndChat\|511 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
	May 06 17:10:37 <gabithume> should I create a dir and include some functional tests?
	May 06 17:10:49 * AndChat-511 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
	May 06 17:11:53 <paroneayea> gabithume: that would be awesome.
	May 06 17:12:04 <paroneayea> :)
	May 06 17:12:39 <gabithume> paroneayea, ok! thank you!
	May 06 17:15:10 <paroneayea> thank you gabithume ! :)
	May 06 17:16:28 <spaetz> Elrond: No, I am not doing pluggable auth. Security's over my head
	May 06 17:16:42 <spaetz> and good night, by the way :-). See you tomorrow.
	May 06 17:17:37 <paroneayea> lata spaetz
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	May 06 17:25:32 * davexunit has quit (Quit: Later)
	May 06 17:33:16 * ErkanYilmaz1 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
	May 06 17:38:44 <gabithume> hmm I think you are right about using Selenium... Selenium is not headless -- we will need to make sure to have our browsers running -- but has the advantage to be browser agnostic while Phantomjs is headless but webkit-specific
	May 06 17:38:54 <gabithume> I'm going to take note about it as ticket comments
	May 06 17:39:37 <joar> selenium launches the browser automatically and separately from the browser you're using.
	May 06 17:40:32 <joar> I can't tell for sure, but they probably start it up without an associated profile, so it will be an isolated environment from your own browser setup.
	May 06 17:40:47 <gabithume> it so cool
	May 06 17:41:31 * AVRS has quit (Quit: leaving)
	May 06 17:41:54 <gabithume> so, going with selenium...
	May 06 17:42:28 <joar> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11226648/is-it-possible-to-use-selenium-web-driver-to-drive-phantomjs
	May 06 17:45:27 <joar> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6995016/what-is-the-difference-between-selenium-ide-server-rc-2-0-and-webdriver/6996322#6996322
	May 06 17:46:51 <joar> http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/javascript-ajax/headless-functional-testing-with-selenium-and-phantomjs/
	May 06 17:49:45 * ErkanYilmaz1 (~ErkanYilm@f053216115.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #mediagoblin
	May 06 17:50:03 <Elrond> So you're trying to create unit testing for js?
	May 06 17:51:08 <gabithume> joar, thank you!!
	May 06 17:51:18 <joar> :)
	May 06 17:51:56 <paroneayea> Elrond: functional testing! :)
	May 06 17:52:03 <paroneayea> well, and probably js unit tests too
	May 06 17:52:36 <paroneayea> oh wow cool, phantomjs thru selenium!
	May 06 17:54:29 <gabithume> Elrond, I am trying to start with simple navigational tests to learn about selenium and I think I can go to js tests ASAP
	May 06 17:54:38 <gabithume> any tips about functional tests for js Elrond?
	May 06 17:55:40 <gabithume> paroneayea, yeah! we can drive phantomjs using selenium :-)
	May 06 17:55:46 <paroneayea> so awesome.
	May 06 17:55:52 <paroneayea> gabithume: you effin' rock
	May 06 17:56:56 <gabithume> :)
	May 06 17:59:41 <Elrond> Stupid question: What exactly was functional testing again?
	May 06 18:01:05 <Elrond> paroneayea, gabithume - What about writing a failing test for this? http://issues.mediagoblin.org/ticket/689
	May 06 18:02:39 <paroneayea> Elrond: more of "testing user behaviors"
	May 06 18:02:44 <paroneayea> as if a user doing things in the browser
	May 06 18:03:02 <paroneayea> actually, we do this kind of with webtest, our u"unit tests" with webtests are often closer to functional tests
	May 06 18:03:11 <paroneayea> in the way they mimic user behavior
	May 06 18:03:31 <paroneayea> but using selenium and etc will actually give us the power of a real browser to make sure things really "appear" the right wayto a user
	May 06 18:04:51 <Elrond> We should not have too many selenium tests. I guess, they're slow?
	May 06 18:05:52 <paroneayea> it would not be surprising for them to be slow I suppose
	May 06 18:06:02 * gustavo_cm has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
	May 06 18:06:35 <Elrond> Some of our functional tests are trying to be unit tests...
	May 06 18:07:20 <joar> they're as fast as an impossibly fast user is at navigating the site.
	May 06 18:07:41 <paroneayea> they do need to start up and shut down the browser I suppose
	May 06 18:07:50 <joar> so, slow, compared to what we have today, I think, since I guess there's no networking at all involved in current tests.
	May 06 18:08:18 <joar> You could clean the state of the browser too.
	May 06 18:08:22 <joar> that would be faaster.
	May 06 18:09:05 <joar> http://code.google.com/p/selenium/issues/detail?id=40
	May 06 18:09:12 <joar> You can't clear the cache.
	May 06 18:09:16 * paroneayea wonders how this would affect running with -n5
	May 06 18:09:22 <paroneayea> joar: oh really??
	May 06 18:09:23 <joar> hehehe
	May 06 18:09:32 <joar> it just says 'the cache'
	May 06 18:09:35 <joar> don't know about cookies
	May 06 18:09:57 <joar> http://sqa.stackexchange.com/questions/2881/selenium-2-0-webdriver-clearing-session-data
	May 06 18:10:18 <gabithume> so, maybe I can try to write a test with selenium to #689?
	May 06 18:10:29 <joar> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2191189/clear-session-cookies-with-selenium-ide
	May 06 18:12:07 <joar> https://github.com/ariya/phantomjs/wiki/API-Reference-phantom#clearcookies-void
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	May 06 18:13:19 <Elrond> sqa.sx?! Ooookay.
	May 06 18:13:39 <joar> sqa.sx?
	May 06 18:14:26 <Elrond> <joar> http://sqa.stackexchange.com/...
	May 06 18:14:56 <Elrond> I didn't know about that SX site.
	May 06 18:15:02 <joar> Me neither :)
	May 06 18:15:50 <joar> bedtime!
	May 06 18:15:52 <joar> good night :)
	May 06 18:16:04 <Elrond> Alothough beta SX sites can be quite nice.
	May 06 18:16:47 <joar> in short, seems cookie deletion is inconsistent across browsers.
	May 06 18:16:55 <joar> haven't found an anser to how it works in phantomjs
	May 06 18:17:12 <joar> should be in here though: https://github.com/detro/ghostdriver/tree/master/src
	May 06 18:18:12 <Elrond> gabithume - If you want to? I guess, this would be a good thing. I have not commited the patch in that ticket for two reasons: No unit test and I don't know enough about js to be sure my patch is correct.
	May 06 18:18:44 <Elrond> gabithume - And we're trying to have tests (unit or functional) for our bugs. So they don't come back, ever.
	May 06 18:19:41 * basxto has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
	May 06 18:20:02 <joar> at least not until they mutate ;o)
	May 06 18:20:18 <Elrond> G
	May 06 18:20:52 <gabithume> Elrond, I understand, I'm going to try to setup a selenium test environment here and include/document in my mg fork, I guess it can be a start
	May 06 18:22:32 <Elrond> gabithume - Just curious: Is that for gsoc/opw?
	May 06 18:23:28 * youlysses (~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) has joined #mediagoblin
	May 06 18:23:51 <gabithume> Elrond, I am applying to opw :)
	May 06 18:24:28 <Elrond> gabithume - Ahh, okay.
	May 06 18:24:55 <gabithume> so I'm trying to understand better mediagoblin
	May 06 18:29:39 <Elrond> gabithume - Writing selenium functional tests for it is a tough thing, I think.
	May 06 18:30:27 <joar> infrastructure might be tough
	May 06 18:30:40 <joar> writing the tests should not be terribly awful
	May 06 18:31:20 <joar> and if gabithume just gets something that's up and working we can figure out the best way to stuff selenium and phantomjs into the shelves.
	May 06 18:31:43 <joar> I really have to go to bed now though. Good luck and good night :)
	May 06 18:32:50 <Elrond> Good night joar!
	May 06 18:33:15 * AndChat\|511 (~androbug@pdpc/supporter/active/thelovebug) has joined #mediagoblin
	May 06 18:33:24 <gabithume> joar, sure! sorry to bother, and thanks for all the advises, I'll try to setup and ping you guys later again, good night!
	May 06 18:33:35 <gabithume> Elrond, are you applying for opw as well?
	May 06 18:35:33 * AndroBug has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
	May 06 18:36:04 <Elrond> gabithume - No. I have to finish my phd. No time for this stuff. And need to find a job.
	May 06 18:38:12 <gabithume> Elrond, cool then! Can I know what is the subject of your phd?
	May 06 18:40:45 <Elrond> gabithume - theoretical analysis for NMR stuff (Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, probably best known for the MRI scanner in the hospital). Except I know only what wikipedia knows about MRI scanners. ;)
	May 06 18:42:16 <gabithume> Elrond, wow amazing! physics major?
	May 06 18:43:11 <Elrond> Yep.
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	May 06 18:43:46 <Elrond> Probably "master" is the right english term. german "Diplom".
	May 06 18:46:53 <gabithume> oh, ok! :)