Idealien/majorupdates.drama

## majorupdates.drama
•	Changing running websites without the consent of their owners is just like putting your hand on the oven.
•	Are you suggesting forced auto-updates to newer major versions? If so, then I think you’re setting yourself up for disaster.
•	What happens if the outage causes financial issues to the owner?
•	I would propose to drop this idea completely, for lack of realism.
•	In the area of small businesses losing contact to the admin happens regularly, either because of distrust or because of the admin changing his professional focus or lack of money. This plan will put all of those site owners at risk, and more of them with every step up the update ladder.
•	Put an alarm system into the next minor.
•	Absence of an answer does not indicate consent.
•	In reality, choices are never between a purely good thing and a purely bad thing; they’re always between competing tradeoffs.
•	If you think that I’m going to miss even one opportunity to pick up half-a-knot boat speed, you’re absolutely out of your mind. When it costs us nothing, when we give up nothing?! You’re out of your mind.
•	Let’s have a north star that doesn’t hamstring us to two years of support or defacto LTS releases, and instead emphasizes that it’s safe to update and that users should always just be running the latest version
•	Don’t play nanny, abuse trust and break sites and then write blog posts about how it was necessary collateral damage. Nobody who wakes up to a broken site will be happy with that.
•	Having this be both opt-out-able AND honor the existing ‘don’t auto-upgrade me bro’ settings will mitigate this a great deal.
•	If WP upgrades me and I break, I’m pissed at WordPress. If WP doesn’t upgrade me and I get hacked, and WP says “Mika, we tried!” then I may be pissed at WordPress, but I retain agency over my choices.
•	So, just leave sites that we can fix and make secure as insecure because we’re unwilling to make a decision to break a couple minor eggs to make a much better omelet?
•	If I was running around with my PIN number as a banner – is it my banks responsibility to change it? If I drive my car uninsured, is it anyone else’s responsibility? If I CHOOSE to run a version of WordPress (which is FREE, not paid for!) that is 6 years old and all related technologies have moved on… why is it WP’s responsibility here?
•	If WordPress was a SaaS platform, I would have no issue with you managing updates etc
•	If you can fix a thing, and you take no action to fix that thing, then you are responsible when the thing goes unfixed.
•	When the driver has fallen asleep and, the passenger tries to wake him up, but then does not wait for consent to grab the steering wheel to avoid crash, even as a proactive action. If that passenger then crashes into someone else – who is then liable? The driver or the passenger?
•	Apples and Oranges. Both are in the same fruit bowl though… the policies are inconsistent and need a better, more standardized approach.
•	To me it looks like you are trying to police WP and MAKE people update..
•	A Catch 22. Do it and piss thousands off, or dont do it and leave it to the hosting companies to take a site down…
•	I’ve seen the future and news are … **** Breaking News!! WordPress breaks thousands of websites with an auto-update that didn’t get the users approval. Hundreds of affected users are joining efforts to sue the responsible of this decision that had ruined thousands of businesses, blogs and websites
•	If you update without my permission, I denounce you.
•	When we live in a community, there’s a balance between our individual rights and our responsibilities to our each other.
•	To use a metaphor, should I have the right to let my house burn down? Yes, I think so… as long as it won’t hurt my neighbor. But if the fire would jump to their house, then I no longer feel like I have a right to do nothing, or to complain when the fire department damages my house — which would have burned down anyway — with their high-pressure water hoses.
•	This is a great example but needs to be better flushed out. WP plays two roles in this scenario, a neighbor, and the original construction company w/ an awesome upgrade program that makes every effort to ensure all homes built, old and new are protected from disaster and that the upgrades are as uneventful and as safe as possible. However, what you are NOT is the fire dept. nor civic code enforcement.
•	Now let’s tighten up the metaphor a bit more and let’s say it’s the “age or build” of your home in question, which “potentially” could be a risk to surrounding homes and not necessarily that you LET it catch on fire. Please, don’t be so quick paint a villain or a dunce into the picture even though it makes using force more palatable. It’s never that simple.
•	If my old construction company, even with the best intentions and after exhausting all efforts to reach me, shows up one morning and starts bulldozing my foundation upon which my upstairs bedroom wall collapses while I’m sleeping and my dog falls out and gets injured as a result you can best be sure there is gonna be a serious problem because they had no authority or consent to take this action.
•	It’d be more accurate to say, “carefully replacing a support beam”, which will usually work, but there’s always an inherent risk.
•	I like the metaphor of “original construction company” that offers an “awesome upgrade program”. For those not opted in to a more thorough upgrades, and those not opted out completely, they come regularly and repaint areas of the cladding that a worn, to prevent further damage. Now, they see the need to change some cladding parts since it’s no longer feasible to repaint it. They try to reach the house owners, and get consent or not, leaving letters in their mailbox, phoning when possible, note on the door, everything. And they come back weeks later to try the same again. Most will finally answer, but some can’t be reached and their house is facing further damage. Then the company just replaces some cladding boards, knowing that even just that has a slight risk of destroying some very delicate piece of insulation behind. Out of 100, 99 will be thankful for the initiative, one will complain.
•	To use the “construction” example in another thread: If WordPress built my house and therefore have a key, that doesn’t give them the right to later enter my house and move my furniture around or repaint my walls.
•	So let us say I have a business and this business is in a building and it has some locks on it to keep it safe. When I bought those locks I registered them but never really paid attention to them after that since well they lock my door and that is their job. Their manufacturer likes these locks to look clean and shiny, this they feel reflects well on them. I never noticed when I registered the locks but there was some text that they would stop by my business every few months and polish the locks. This seems to happen at night and I never noticed all these years later. Now I got some mail from them and it looked like junk so I tossed it out, who cares about some random flyer. I got another letter a few weeks later that said something about some defects in the lock but whatever my business is fine the locks work. A few days later I get to my business and my key does not work. What the hell the damn lock broke, then I look and notice that it is some new lock. I didn’t order a new lock. Since it is opening time I have customers that want to get in and buy things but they can’t since I can’t open the door. Now I am turning away customers and paying a locksmith to get over and replace this unknown new lock with one I can open.
	• Changing running websites without the consent of their owners is just like putting your hand on the oven.
	• Are you suggesting forced auto-updates to newer major versions? If so, then I think you’re setting yourself up for disaster.
	• What happens if the outage causes financial issues to the owner?
	• I would propose to drop this idea completely, for lack of realism.
	• In the area of small businesses losing contact to the admin happens regularly, either because of distrust or because of the admin changing his professional focus or lack of money. This plan will put all of those site owners at risk, and more of them with every step up the update ladder.
	• Put an alarm system into the next minor.
	• Absence of an answer does not indicate consent.
	• In reality, choices are never between a purely good thing and a purely bad thing; they’re always between competing tradeoffs.
	• If you think that I’m going to miss even one opportunity to pick up half-a-knot boat speed, you’re absolutely out of your mind. When it costs us nothing, when we give up nothing?! You’re out of your mind.
	• Let’s have a north star that doesn’t hamstring us to two years of support or defacto LTS releases, and instead emphasizes that it’s safe to update and that users should always just be running the latest version
	• Don’t play nanny, abuse trust and break sites and then write blog posts about how it was necessary collateral damage. Nobody who wakes up to a broken site will be happy with that.
	• Having this be both opt-out-able AND honor the existing ‘don’t auto-upgrade me bro’ settings will mitigate this a great deal.
	• If WP upgrades me and I break, I’m pissed at WordPress. If WP doesn’t upgrade me and I get hacked, and WP says “Mika, we tried!” then I may be pissed at WordPress, but I retain agency over my choices.
	• So, just leave sites that we can fix and make secure as insecure because we’re unwilling to make a decision to break a couple minor eggs to make a much better omelet?
	• If I was running around with my PIN number as a banner – is it my banks responsibility to change it? If I drive my car uninsured, is it anyone else’s responsibility? If I CHOOSE to run a version of WordPress (which is FREE, not paid for!) that is 6 years old and all related technologies have moved on… why is it WP’s responsibility here?
	• If WordPress was a SaaS platform, I would have no issue with you managing updates etc
	• If you can fix a thing, and you take no action to fix that thing, then you are responsible when the thing goes unfixed.
	• When the driver has fallen asleep and, the passenger tries to wake him up, but then does not wait for consent to grab the steering wheel to avoid crash, even as a proactive action. If that passenger then crashes into someone else – who is then liable? The driver or the passenger?
	• Apples and Oranges. Both are in the same fruit bowl though… the policies are inconsistent and need a better, more standardized approach.
	• To me it looks like you are trying to police WP and MAKE people update..
	• A Catch 22. Do it and piss thousands off, or dont do it and leave it to the hosting companies to take a site down…
	• I’ve seen the future and news are … **** Breaking News!! WordPress breaks thousands of websites with an auto-update that didn’t get the users approval. Hundreds of affected users are joining efforts to sue the responsible of this decision that had ruined thousands of businesses, blogs and websites
	• If you update without my permission, I denounce you.
	• When we live in a community, there’s a balance between our individual rights and our responsibilities to our each other.
	• To use a metaphor, should I have the right to let my house burn down? Yes, I think so… as long as it won’t hurt my neighbor. But if the fire would jump to their house, then I no longer feel like I have a right to do nothing, or to complain when the fire department damages my house — which would have burned down anyway — with their high-pressure water hoses.
	• This is a great example but needs to be better flushed out. WP plays two roles in this scenario, a neighbor, and the original construction company w/ an awesome upgrade program that makes every effort to ensure all homes built, old and new are protected from disaster and that the upgrades are as uneventful and as safe as possible. However, what you are NOT is the fire dept. nor civic code enforcement.
	• Now let’s tighten up the metaphor a bit more and let’s say it’s the “age or build” of your home in question, which “potentially” could be a risk to surrounding homes and not necessarily that you LET it catch on fire. Please, don’t be so quick paint a villain or a dunce into the picture even though it makes using force more palatable. It’s never that simple.
	• If my old construction company, even with the best intentions and after exhausting all efforts to reach me, shows up one morning and starts bulldozing my foundation upon which my upstairs bedroom wall collapses while I’m sleeping and my dog falls out and gets injured as a result you can best be sure there is gonna be a serious problem because they had no authority or consent to take this action.
	• It’d be more accurate to say, “carefully replacing a support beam”, which will usually work, but there’s always an inherent risk.
	• I like the metaphor of “original construction company” that offers an “awesome upgrade program”. For those not opted in to a more thorough upgrades, and those not opted out completely, they come regularly and repaint areas of the cladding that a worn, to prevent further damage. Now, they see the need to change some cladding parts since it’s no longer feasible to repaint it. They try to reach the house owners, and get consent or not, leaving letters in their mailbox, phoning when possible, note on the door, everything. And they come back weeks later to try the same again. Most will finally answer, but some can’t be reached and their house is facing further damage. Then the company just replaces some cladding boards, knowing that even just that has a slight risk of destroying some very delicate piece of insulation behind. Out of 100, 99 will be thankful for the initiative, one will complain.
	• To use the “construction” example in another thread: If WordPress built my house and therefore have a key, that doesn’t give them the right to later enter my house and move my furniture around or repaint my walls.
	• So let us say I have a business and this business is in a building and it has some locks on it to keep it safe. When I bought those locks I registered them but never really paid attention to them after that since well they lock my door and that is their job. Their manufacturer likes these locks to look clean and shiny, this they feel reflects well on them. I never noticed when I registered the locks but there was some text that they would stop by my business every few months and polish the locks. This seems to happen at night and I never noticed all these years later. Now I got some mail from them and it looked like junk so I tossed it out, who cares about some random flyer. I got another letter a few weeks later that said something about some defects in the lock but whatever my business is fine the locks work. A few days later I get to my business and my key does not work. What the hell the damn lock broke, then I look and notice that it is some new lock. I didn’t order a new lock. Since it is opening time I have customers that want to get in and buy things but they can’t since I can’t open the door. Now I am turning away customers and paying a locksmith to get over and replace this unknown new lock with one I can open.