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TYPO3 Composer Integration (Wishlist)

TYPO3 Composer Integration (Wishlist)

This document gives an overview of the issues I see in the current composer implementation in TYPO3. First of all I'll write it in the form of user stories and afterwards write an actual text.

Composer Related Wishes

As a developer I want to:

  • composer init and require typo3/cms
  • install TYPO3 extensions via composer
  • ☐ want the dependencies of the required extensions to be resolved recursively

TYPO3 Related Wishes

As an admin/integrator I want to:

  • ☐ install extensions via the extension manager (also in composer mode)

As an admin/integrator I don't want to:

  • dump the autoload information on the command line (in non composer mode, fixed in 8.x via install tool)
  • ☐ dump the autoload information on the command line (in composer mode)

As a developer I want:

  • ☐ To have a fixed satis that doesn't drop the extra part with the "typo3/class-alias-loader" information

As Alexander Schnitzler I want:

  • ☐ Extensions to be namespaced (folder structure wise, like in the regular vendor dir) [typo3conf/ext/vendor/extension]
  • ☐ The TER to only act as a GUI/Proxy for available extensions.
  • ☐ The extension manager to be a GUI for composer itself (being operable only if possible)

My Vision

Let's begin with the most crucial part of this operation. I do believe that composer is the package management the TYPO3 environment needs and which should be embraced completely to reduce the functionality of the TER to a bare minimum. Why is that so? Because I do believe, that TYPO3 does not only want to have the very good working autoloading of composer but also the rest of that beautiful composer package being the package management itself and the possibility to decentralize the packages. Composer can replace the dependency resolver completely (one thing less to take care of) and it can even resolve dependencies recursively. As more and more code is packaged into small chunks of useful libraries, you don't want x numbers of extension to ship the same libraries in a Resources/Private/PHP folder. It's a proper intermediate solution but in the end you don't want to have foreign code in your own repository. Besides that, composer enables you to fetch your code from a lot of different sources. It's even possible to mix public and private repositories and still get the dependencies right.

All this needs a GUI for people who are not familiar with the command line. If you strip down the extension manager to a bare minimum, you have the functionality of a composer require statement. As packages are installed by default if physically loaded, one can simply drop the step of having packages with installed/uninstalled states. What is that good for anyway? Either you need phpmyadmin or you don't. With composer you can even just install packages in dev mode require-dev and keep the live version untouched. Something that is not possible with the current approach. One can drop the PackageStates.php and all ext_emconf.php files (just needed for the dependency resolver and displaying the title in ext manager anyway). Once you operate your installation in development mode (finally a use case for the contexts), extension manager operates with the composer --dev flag. As there is no pollution of any PackageStates.php file, there is no risk to deploy crap to the live server.

So, what about the people that use the extension manager on live systems? Well, screw them. Why do we even invent our own deployment solution when we accept the thinking that one needs to be able to install packages on a live system? That's insane. We are living and working in 2017, you do not work on a live server to test something. So, what's the problem with composer consuming so much RAM and CPU time anyway? Never mind, it takes place locally and/or on your build server. Even if you deploy via ftp, you install/uninstall packages before that. This means, that people need to cope with that fact and if they really need to install packages on their live servers, they should go ask their clients for more money for their own convenience.

What about the namespaces? We adjust the core to search for extensions one folder deeper than usual. That way we can namespace our extensions folder wise and do not have any conflicts with similar extension names. For the developer this gives a lot more clarity which packages are installed. But the real benefit is, that people do not need to register extension keys and fight about it. You want to publish your own gridelements? Fine, go ahead! And suddenly the TER is a gui like packagist itself. It can hold meta information about packages but is not responsible for the availability of packages themselves. This frees the resources of the server team and the t3org team can update more regularly without the TER bound to it.

On top of that, we can drop the satis, installed on or make it real proxy. I hate installing typo3-ter/foo extensions because it is the reason for most issues I have with TYPO3 and composer. It's due to the fact, that the composer.json of satis is different from the actual one of the package, leading to nasty brainfuck situations. Example: compatibility6 has a "typo3/class-alias-loader" section which is the key feature – no, it's the reason – why that extension exists. You want to register class aliases but that information is missing in the composer.json of satis because the way satis builds these extensions is dependent on our very own algorithm defined in which noone wants to maintain. Everyone simply wants to use the original, the pure composer integration. Once you face any issue with and you are not very much into that whole composer topic you start believing that composer is shit.

Do we really want to live with the status quo like we do with Extbase? It's becoming too many construction sites in just one cms that seem to never get finished. I don't think that this split, which is still done in many areas, is a benefit to TYPO3. One cannot always get everyone aboard but leaving a few behind can make many more join.

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helhum commented Mar 22, 2017

Thanks for the writeup. For me it does not have any surprising things in it and I agree with most of what you and Claus have been written. I disagree with some and have different opinions on some technical details.

What surprises me a bit are two things.

  1. Much things on the wishlist are already possible with little configuration and the help of TYPO3 Console
  2. The focus on what we don't have instead of the celebration of what we achieved already.

Let's look at what is possible already first:

one can simply drop the step of having packages with installed/uninstalled states

typo3cms install:generatepackagestate exists for years now and was constantly improved. I'm now close to generate it on a regular composer install run without any other scripts config to be required. The only thing that holds me back is backwards compatiblity. Once I have this resolved, when using TYPO3 Console it will just work like you describe. It already works like that if you add one line to your composer scripts.

I hate installing typo3-ter/foo extensions because it is the reason for most issues I have with TYPO3 and composer

We officially recommended to extension authors to publish their code to Github and a little later recommended to register them on packagist. Many extensions (including compat6 you complain about) are available on packagist, resolving all issues you have with Just use extension packages from packagist and be done. If you need an extension on packagist, talk to the authors, help them to get this done. It makes more sense to invest the time in that, than working on a legacy layer (, which will obsolete itself anyway much faster than we can provide things like a composer UI. In a recent TYPO3 8 project, I don't even need this composer repo any more.

Now to the focus on the negative

Do we really want to live with the status quo

What makes you think that this is the case? Do you think things are moving too slow?
I disagree. We are in a transition phase. Sometimes this hurts a bit, but it is important to finally heal.
We can't move faster than our developers. With that I mean developers in agencies, extension developer and also core developers.
What works great for you, needs time to sink in for others. This is really nothing to worry about.

Are we really moving slow? Look at the amount of extensions on Packagist, or the traffic in the Slack #composer channel.
Consider the #continuous-delivery channel popping up. Not only technical implementation or limitations should be considered, but the social dynamics, shift in mindset that is constantly happening. I consider these things much more important than getting rid of the ext_emconf.php file, which does not really matter much, is not much hassle to handle but a huge amount of work to get rid of. Same is true for the boilerplate currently necessary in the composer.json file. It is so much easier to copy that around or take a minute to explain that to newbies, than to change things in that area without breaking existing (composer) workflows for a bunch of users.

I'm convinced that a big budget, political decisions, loads of development hours cannot significantly mitigate the pain some of us feel in this transition phase. We are all learning and adopting new workflows. What would have a greater impact is to educate ourselves and help others. The technical things will follow naturally when the is there.

Look at TYPO3 Console for a last time. When I created it, people questioned the project for years. Now it has become a natural choice for composer based but also non composer based projects. Although I recommend it to be used with composer, I take the (sometimes not so small) effort of also providing it as extension, because a) I think it is important to not cut off a significant user base and b) I'm convinced that people using the console in non composer mode will adopt a certain mindset that will help to adopt composer based workflows lateron.


Wishes are fine as is challenging the status quo. However in the end, time is better spent on educating and helping others. This will already improve the status quo and potentially gets more people on board to work on moving forward. Transitions are hard. Get help and help others. You still think more needs to be done? Fork! Publish! If your work is convincing, people will adopt. TYPO3 will adopt.
Welcome to OSS. We all love it (and hate it some times)!

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alexanderschnitzler commented Mar 23, 2017

Helmut, I do not focus on the negative. I wrote a wishlist that's built on top of what we already have. I do emphasize the issues and my view on the solutions. Your interpretation, that mentioning the issues means blaming the status quo and not valuing the achievements, does harm the discussion because it drags it down to a level of emotion and personal feelings. That's not what all this is about.

We can't move faster than our developers. With that I mean developers in agencies, extension developer and also core developers.
What works great for you, needs time to sink in for others. This is really nothing to worry about.

Actually it is something to worry about. Have a look at Extbase. Years ago we had the same situation. Everybody was happy in the first place and we felt like we really did a big step. Yes, we made people think about DDD but the technical implementation is still horrible. For years, people wish for a proper solution but at the same time we always talk about legacy, backwards compatibility and such. There is no lack of manpower to fix this, it's a lack of vision and communication to get enough people aboard.

It's the same with composer. It might be that your console solves a lot of issues but I don't want to rely on a 3rd-party-package to have a working composer setup. (btw. it's the same with gridelements, I don't want to be forced to rely on it to have grids). It's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of visibility and clarity. Imagine your are new to TYPO3 and you try setting up TYPO3 with composer the first time. At that point you don't know that there is a console extension and you get a horrible experience. That's the reason why a lot of people do think badly about the project in whole. They have a bad experience because of the lack of knowledge and guidance. But at this point I disagree that just helping people will make everything alright. At some point there need to be decisions in favor of or against a solution and it needs to be part of the core. We cannot call TYPO3 an enterprise cms when you need dozens of extensions to work like other projects do out of the box.

Maybe you do not see it but have a look at the facebook groups etc. There are the people that do not use stack overflow for questions. Who do not write questions in english. Who come up with 1998 solutions in 2017 and don't realize how bad it is. Who have issues with Extbase and Composer because they don't know the best practices and get annoyed by TYPO3.

I do believe that once you come up with a vision (yes, that's the hard part) and have a majority aboard, you will find enough motivated people to join. Of course we lack developers because noone knows if it is worth creating a patch in the first place. It works for those that are deeply connected to the core team but you don't see many big, sophisticated patchsets out of the blue.

However, your solution always has been and still is, Fork, Publish, Merge. That's something I don't believe in any more. Not for the TYPO3 project. It can happen too easily that you invest hours of work for nothing. Been there, done that, will never do it again. I can help to form a vision, to be part of the process of evaluating ideas technically, but I will not go ahead as a single person, being the one that does all the work in the first place.

Open source can be about single persons, dedicating huge parts of their live to a project and thus shaping it heavily or it can be about a lot of people having a vision and working together on the best solution. I'm in for the latter.

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