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Where asking a simple question, and not accepting useless and insulting answers, gets you banned from an IRC channel.

Cleaned IRC log of #python starting Monday, 25 July, 2011 at 17:13:55 EDT.

Gems are highlighted in bold.

GothAlice How do I determine if a given object is a @classmethod, and, additionally, how do I determine if it is a @staticmethod? 1
KirkMcDonald GothAlice: Why would you care?
GothAlice KirkMcDonald: Enforcing interfaces, not that it matters.
dash GothAlice: you’re right, it doesn’t matter
_habnabit GothAlice, if you wanted an answer to the question as asked, why don’t you try ##python-friendly? #python is about writing better code.
nedbat GothAlice: what KirkMcDonald should have said was, “The Python culture is to not check ahead of time, do you have an unusual requirement that means you really have to know?”
GothAlice _habnabit: Cute, thank you for living up to expectations.
nedbat _habnabit: you don’t have to treat people that way.
GothAlice nedbat: Assume yes, I do have a requirement that needs this.
message144 heh today i learned that ##python-friendly is a real thing
GothAlice nedbat: No worries, I expect that kind of behaviour from him and a few select others.
nedbat GothAlice: the inspect module has lots of tools, not sure if it covers what you’re looking for.
GothAlice nedbat: I’ve already looked, it doesn’t.
GothAlice Also, _habnabit, it’s against channel rules to advertise other channels; or it was, last time I checked.
KirkMcDonald GothAlice: The answer is obvious if you know how classmethod and staticmethod work. 2
nedbat KirkMcDonald: that’s not that helpful an answer either.
GothAlice KirkMcDonald: Again, thank you for meeting expectations. Is it any wonder I created ##python-friendly?
KirkMcDonald GothAlice: Just yank the objects out of the thing and see what they are. 2
GothAlice KirkMcDonald: Still not helpful. You do realize you’re wasting not just my time, but yours as well?
dash GothAlice: You already know what to expect when you come here.
nedbat dash: why is it ok for her to expect curt rude unhelpful answers?
dash GothAlice: So please don’t expect us to be moved by your complaints about it.
Yhg1s nedbat: there’s quite a bit of history involved.
dash nedbat: A long history of disagreement.
nedbat Yhg1s: I’m getting that sense, but in my experience, GothAlice is not unusual in this regard. Lots of people have come to expect those answers.
KirkMcDonald nedbat: We’re not here to just answer asked questions.
Yhg1s nedbat: if the questions are about bad ideas, then yes, many people won’t give direct answers. With good reason. All too often, if they are given something that does what they seem to want, it’ll just ruin their design and they’ll come back crying later.
Yhg1s nedbat: #python is about helping people write Python, not get something working.
nedbat i’ve heard all this before. Some people disagree. I won’t take more of your time.
GothAlice I think that’s the primary conflict, here. I feel no need to justify myself when asking a question about a real problem I’m encountering. I’ve been programming commercially since I was 9, and generally my OSS code speaks for itself. I’m not an idiot, don’t treat me as one.
Yhg1s nedbat: this is why there’s other channels :)
Yhg1s GothAlice: And yet you insist on treating us as idiots. Thanks. 3
GothAlice However, my particular use case involves writing an interface declaration and enforcement system, similar to zope.interface, but a fair bit simpler.
KirkMcDonald GothAlice: If you find that you actually need to do this sort of metaprogramming nonsense, I am surprised you don’t know how to do it. 4
nedbat KirkMcDonald: we’ve established that you are surprised. Now, do you know the answer?
KirkMcDonald That you have sufficient skill for this kind of metaprogramming to be a need but insufficient skill to just do it is strange to me. 4
dash GothAlice: I would note that not even zope.interface checks if things are staticmethods or classmethods. :)
KirkMcDonald I gave the answer: Get the objects. See what they are instances of. 2
dash GothAlice: So your approach already sounds less simple
GothAlice sighs.
nedbat KirkMcDonald: when i get a classmethod from an object, its type is “instancemethod”.
NelleV GothAlice: maybe you’ll have more answers on the python-list mailing list
Yhg1s nedbat: you have to get it from the class, of course.
KirkMcDonald To get the actual classmethod object, you don’t even get it from the class. You need to sidestep the descriptor protocol.
Yhg1s some knowledge of how these things work is necessary, if you want to do these kinds of things. There’s several decent documents on the interwebs that explain how classes, metaclasses and descriptors like staticmethod and classmethod work. [17:29:43]
GothAlice Yhg1s: A ha, descriptor protocol. Thank you for finally being useful. type(obj).mro() + dict here I come. 5
Yhg1s GothAlice: ‘finally being useful’. Thanks again.
Yhg1s GothAlice: your hostile attitude is as old as your passive-agressiveness. Please go away, learn to act like a civil person or ask better questions (preferably all three.) 6
GothAlice Yhg1s: Just giving credit where credit is due. Those two words took 15 minutes and solved my problem. Additionally, the question was perfectly sound. Your insistence on correcting the purpose of others’ code is the problem.
Kaedenn GothAlice: Welcome to #python
Kaedenn GothAlice: I see you’re new here
17:33:40 mode (+o Yhg1s) by ChanServ
17:33:51 mode (+b !amcgregor@74.198.165.*) by Yhg1s
17:33:52 You have been kicked by Yhg1s: (Don’t come back.)

1 If you can argue that this isn’t a clear and concise question, please comment.

2 Snide and/or unhelpful answers that are such in any context. Pretend you’re a tourist, and from everyone you ask “How do I get to X?” you get “Well, if you lived here, you’d know!”

3 Not sure how dismissing useless answers is treating someone as an idiot… sure, repeatedly pointing out someone is living up to low expectations (held not just by me) might be insulting, but when it’s demonstrated again and again—within the same conversation no less—it’s not unjustified.

4 These aren’t even subtle.

5 Should have been directed at KirkMcDonald and Yhg1s.

6 Prior to the actual answer there was one attempted good-faith answer (inspect module, alas, not viable), two dismissals, three purposefully vague and unhelpful answers, at least two thinly veiled insults, and three suggestions to ask elsewhere (though one was more along the lines of “You know we won’t help you, so why do you bother?”).

This is not a good sign for what one might usually refer to as a “Python support community”. Operative word being support. Thank you, nedbat, for helping. The inspect module, after further inspection, does contain code that can be helpful by way of the undocumented classify_class_attrs function, which works in much the same way as my own code.

For future reference, the solution is attached.

def isclassmethod(cls, name):
for cls in cls.mro():
if name in cls.__dict__:
if type(cls.__dict__[name]) is classmethod:
return True
return False
return False
def isstaticmethod(cls, name):
for cls in cls.mro():
if name in cls.__dict__:
if type(cls.__dict__[name]) is staticmethod:
return True
return False
return False
class Foo(object):
def foo(self):
pass
@classmethod
def bar(cls):
pass
@staticmethod
def baz():
pass
assert not isclassmethod(Foo, 'foo'), "Method is classmethod?"
assert isclassmethod(Foo, 'bar'), "Classmethod isn't?"
assert isstaticmethod(Foo, 'baz'), "Staticmethod isn't?"
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