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Hacking the Rectangular Starlink Dishy Cable
@Missoulajeff
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Hello All, Thanks for the detailed and expert comments. Total newb here. Sorry in advance!

Problem Set: I need to mount my Starlink Gen 2 Dishy approximatley 195' from the ideal router location inside our cabin. As you all know, the longest pre-made Starlink cable is 150'

Potential Solution One:- Place Starlink Router in weather proof box <75' from Dishy location, then use Starlink ethernet adaptor and run 23 gauge Cat5e from Router box all the way to cabin router location and install a third party router there.

Does anyone have corrections or comments on this strategy? Can someone give me good links to high quality ethernet cable? This is going to be running underground, in a 3/4" schedule 40 PVC conduit, about 6" from a 110v electrical cable buried in second conduit.
I'm assuming this ethernet needs to be shielded. Correct? And do I need to ground one end of it?

Potential Solution Two: Cut custom 90 degree Starlink cable termination off, use weather-proof cable coupler to join the cut end of the Starlink cable to new 23 Gauge Cat5e cable, then attach the cut-off starlink termination to the far end of the Cat5 cable and plug that into the Starlink router located in the cabin.

Does anyone have corrections or comments on this strategy? Is this coupler recommended and appropriate for this situation?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FLY7233/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A130RVB6PSAL46&psc=1
What ethernet connectors / terminations do you suggest for the cut starlink cable and the Cat5 ethernet cable at the location of the coupler?
Do you have any advice on how a novice like me can get the wiring correct? I see reference to "type B" wiring but have no reference. Are ther diagrams out there?
And will the POE that is required from Starlink router to Dishy work in this arrangment?

Thanks so much for any and all assistance. My preference is to go with Potential Solution Two because it eliminates the extra energy used by the second router and eliminates the need to stash the starlink router out in the outdoors.

Jeff

@jfpdazey
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jfpdazey commented Oct 25, 2022

@oetkb Planning on doing basically the same setup in the "wet bay" of our RV with the components you've mentioned. After a lot of searching, it seems like yours is the best option to get quality components, full shielding, and a measure of waterproofing/dust resistance - at a reasonable price.

Looking at the instructions on the NE8FDY-C6 (on the Neutrik website), step "J" indicates a "Grounding Option" where you are instructed to "Insert contact only if screen should be connected to front panel". See the screenshot included below.

My question is, if I'm aiming at maintaining the full shielding from Dishy to router by using these Neutrik components, letting the router/power cable take card of ground, should I skip this "Grounding Option"? My gut says 'yes', but I'd like to be certain.

Thanks in advance!
John

image

@oetkb
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oetkb commented Oct 25, 2022

@jfpdazey: The short answer is, "Yes, skip the panel grounding".

It's unlikely to actually make a difference with the types of mounting we're using (i.e., non-conductive "panels" unconnected to any possible ground path) but better to be safe than sorry.

@jfpdazey
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@oetkb Perfect! Thanks for your quick reply. Makes sense given your point about the “panel” itself not being connected to ground.

@francc01
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francc01 commented Oct 26, 2022

Hello All.
I want to do a similar thing.
To remove the starlink router, as i find it to limited in terms of configuration.
Besides that, i want to be able to connect most equipment via cable.

One issue, i am unable to order the provided PoE injector, as amazon does not list it anymore for sale.
Would the following one be a good option?
(ps i can only order from Amazon spain due to my location).

its 90W output, and has a power supply integrated.
A bit more€€€ but thats ok.

The idea is to put dishy V2 more or less 150 to 200 meters from my main house on a high support.
The PoE injector will only be used for powering Dishy V2. No other devices.

I have for that a uws-litle-16-PoE switch and a edgerouterx.
I am aware of the switching of the pairs to match up as well dishy and as well the PoE injector.

Trying to avoid bricking first connection of dishy ;) would be a shame after waiting so long...
Thank you

EDIT: I have at the moment the following injector:
48V 0.5A 24W PoE adapter from tp-link (TL-POE4824G). Its a passive 1 GB injector
If i can use this one, then it should be ok and i do not need to buy the more expensive mentioned.

@WIMMPYIII
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Hello All. I want to do a similar thing. To remove the starlink router, as i find it to limited in terms of configuration. Besides that, i want to be able to connect most equipment via cable.

One issue, i am unable to order the provided PoE injector, as amazon does not list it anymore for sale. Would the following one be a good option? (ps i can only order from Amazon spain due to my location).

its 90W output, and has a power supply integrated. A bit more€€€ but thats ok.

The idea is to put dishy V2 more or less 150 to 200 meters from my main house on a high support. The PoE injector will only be used for powering Dishy V2. No other devices.

I have for that a uws-litle-16-PoE switch and a edgerouterx. I am aware of the switching of the pairs to match up as well dishy and as well the PoE injector.

Trying to avoid bricking first connection of dishy ;) would be a shame after waiting so long... Thank you

EDIT: I have at the moment the following injector: 48V 0.5A 24W PoE adapter from tp-link (TL-POE4824G). Its a passive 1 GB injector If i can use this one, then it should be ok and i do not need to buy the more expensive mentioned.

There has to be less then 100 meters between each switch. So to get 200 meters you need an inline switch in the middle of your run.
This run will just be for getting data to your dishy. ( this can be done for several 100m jumps)
https://www.amazon.com/Cudy-POE15-Waterproof-1000Mbps%EF%BC%8C1-Wall-Mount/dp/B085S1R5NX/ref=sr_1_38?crid=2NZHHBO1DZL4U&keywords=PoE+Extender+outdoor+gigabit&qid=1666769394&sprefix=poe+extender+outdoor+gigabi%2Caps%2C195&sr=8-38&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840#customerReviews

You need to run power on a 2nd run of wire. ( I don't think cat6 wire is going to be good on more than 100 meters)
snip the end and tie in half the pairs to negative and half to positive on a power pack. (For 200m i think you would need proper DC awg 12 wire) and possibly a higher voltage then this listed below like 56v you would want to use a voltage calculator and also voltomenter the end before attempting to power it.
(If you can get AC power at the dishy end you could run the stock router in bypass mode in an enclosure and just do the above for data to a router into the house)
https://www.amazon.com/Reolink-Adapter-Compatible-RLN16-410-RLN8-410/dp/B07WL7R26Z

You will need this at the dishy side
Option 1 (needs pins set properly) https://www.ispsupplies.com/McCown-Technology-Corporation-800-GIGE-POE
Option 2 (needs an enclosure) https://dishypowa.com/

@ptwohig
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ptwohig commented Dec 2, 2022

Which of the wires on the Dishy actually supply power to the dish, and which are data?

I tried this injector and I think I cooked my Dishy - https://bit.ly/3H5ImH9

  1. Data
  2. Data
  3. Data
  4. 48V+
  5. 48V+
  6. Data
  7. GND
  8. GND

Is that correct? Or do need to order a replacement dish?

@jesuschris
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Did you swap the Green/Blue in and out of the PoE? See this diagram. https://postlmg.cc/NKnyQNcy

If not you may need a new one.

Also I've just become aware of this cool piece of kit out of NZ... https://canhaz.dishypowa.com. Maybe this is an easier solution for all you DIY'rs not wanting to risk your dishy. :)

@WIMMPYIII
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WIMMPYIII commented Dec 2, 2022

Did you swap the Green/Blue in and out of the PoE? See this diagram. https://postlmg.cc/NKnyQNcy

If not you may need a new one.

Also I've just become aware of this cool piece of kit out of NZ... https://canhaz.dishypowa.com. Maybe this is an easier solution for all you DIY'rs not wanting to risk your dishy. :)

Yes dishypowa works great but so does the McCown 800-GIGE-POE. The McCown is cheaper considering you have to by a 4x4 sealed box for dishypowa. Dishypowa could be more compact for a mobile option also they are making a new revision that can run off a wide range of voltage and output the correct voltage to the dishy. That makes it ideal for vehicles and such and may open up cheaper options of power bricks.

@WIMMPYIII
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Which of the wires on the Dishy actually supply power to the dish, and which are data?

I tried this injector and I think I cooked my Dishy - https://bit.ly/3H5ImH9

  1. Data
  2. Data
  3. Data
  4. 48V+
  5. 48V+
  6. Data
  7. GND
  8. GND

Is that correct? Or do need to order a replacement dish?

How far are you trying to go after the power injector and how far and what wire are you running to the injector? What power brick are you using?

@torrmundi
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Oops, I think I broke my Dishy. I powered up my hack 48V system and plugged Dishy in for the first time. The Tycon PoE smoked. Then I coupled Dishy back to my SL router and logged in with my phone. The app says "Offline" and "Starlink disconnected". That's why I think the Dishy is toasted. Regarding my wiring, I have pos 48Vdc on pins 1,2,3,6 (orange/white, orange, green/white, green) and negative (48V ground) on 4,5,7,8 (blue, blue/white, brown/white, brown). Can anyone tell me my mistake?

@WIMMPYIII
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Oops, I think I broke my Dishy. I powered up my hack 48V system and plugged Dishy in for the first time. The Tycon PoE smoked. Then I coupled Dishy back to my SL router and logged in with my phone. The app says "Offline" and "Starlink disconnected". That's why I think the Dishy is toasted. Regarding my wiring, I have pos 48Vdc on pins 1,2,3,6 (orange/white, orange, green/white, green) and negative (48V ground) on 4,5,7,8 (blue, blue/white, brown/white, brown). Can anyone tell me my mistake?

That sounds to be right wire config. How far did you try to go with only 48v?

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Dec 3, 2022 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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WIMMPYIII commented Dec 4, 2022

It's about 35 ft from PoE to dish.

On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 3:53 PM WIMMPYIII @.> wrote: @.* commented on this gist. ------------------------------ Oops, I think I broke my Dishy. I powered up my hack 48V system and plugged Dishy in for the first time. The Tycon PoE smoked. Then I coupled Dishy back to my SL router and logged in with my phone. The app says "Offline" and "Starlink disconnected". That's why I think the Dishy is toasted. Regarding my wiring, I have pos 48Vdc on pins 1,2,3,6 (orange/white, orange, green/white, green) and negative (48V ground) on 4,5,7,8 (blue, blue/white, brown/white, brown). Can anyone tell me my mistake? That sounds to be right wire config. How far did you try to go with only 48v? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4390584 or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMGEKLVL4QLSCZDV7ELWLOXNTBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF . You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub .

How far from the 48v power brick plugged into 110AC to the POE injection point?

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Dec 4, 2022 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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It's a 12V battery bank, fed about 8ft from the breaker panel to the 12-48 converter on 10 awg. Then 48V fed 27ft to the PoE on 14 awg.

On Sat, Dec 3, 2022, 9:07 PM WIMMPYIII @.> wrote: @.* commented on this gist. ------------------------------ It's about 35 ft from PoE to dish. … <#m_8102826963808532048_> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 3:53 PM WIMMPYIII @.*> wrote: @.** commented on this gist. ------------------------------ Oops, I think I broke my Dishy. I powered up my hack 48V system and plugged Dishy in for the first time. The Tycon PoE smoked. Then I coupled Dishy back to my SL router and logged in with my phone. The app says "Offline" and "Starlink disconnected". That's why I think the Dishy is toasted. Regarding my wiring, I have pos 48Vdc on pins 1,2,3,6 (orange/white, orange, green/white, green) and negative (48V ground) on 4,5,7,8 (blue, blue/white, brown/white, brown). Can anyone tell me my mistake? That sounds to be right wire config. How far did you try to go with only 48v? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4390584 or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMGEKLVL4QLSCZDV7ELWLOXNTBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF . You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub . How far from the power brick plugged into 110 to the POE injection point? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4390754 or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMFGPAZBIGAJSRSKI23WLP4GTBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF . You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub .

That sounds perfectly fine to me. Maybe something was wrong with the 48v converter did you try a voltmeter on it? What amps did the 48v converter put out?
Maybe someone else has some ideas as to what may have happened?

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Dec 4, 2022 via email

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Dec 4, 2022 via email

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Dec 4, 2022 via email

@bghira
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bghira commented Dec 5, 2022

you killed the router

@WIMMPYIII
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WIMMPYIII commented Dec 5, 2022

I measured the DC voltages on all the wire pairs after connecting back to the SL router. Every one is zero! Does the SL router have a 'dormant' mode that power off the dishy? Or does this indicate a dead SL router??

On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 10:42 PM John Morfit @.> wrote: BTW, thank you for responding! As you might guess, I'm an unhappy camper right now, so it is great to have someone that I can speak with about it. On Sat, Dec 3, 2022, 10:31 PM John Morfit @.> wrote: > I only checked voltage, before connecting SL - after connecting, as soon > as I saw smoke, I disconnected. If I venture to try again, I'll measure > current. I assume that since I've not found anything needing change, the > condition will continue (more smoke). > > On Sat, Dec 3, 2022, 9:42 PM WIMMPYIII @.> wrote: > >> @.* commented on this gist. >> ------------------------------ >> >> It's a 12V battery bank, fed about 8ft from the breaker panel to the >> 12-48 converter on 10 awg. Then 48V fed 27ft to the PoE on 14 awg. >> … >> <#m_-1420044019847022546_m_1579301424341436564_m_-4331165555688670339_> >> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022, 9:07 PM WIMMPYIII @.> wrote: @.** commented on >> this gist. ------------------------------ It's about 35 ft from PoE to >> dish. … <#m_8102826963808532048_> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 3:53 PM WIMMPYIII >> @.> wrote: @.** commented on this gist. >> ------------------------------ Oops, I think I broke my Dishy. I powered up >> my hack 48V system and plugged Dishy in for the first time. The Tycon PoE >> smoked. Then I coupled Dishy back to my SL router and logged in with my >> phone. The app says "Offline" and "Starlink disconnected". That's why I >> think the Dishy is toasted. Regarding my wiring, I have pos 48Vdc on pins >> 1,2,3,6 (orange/white, orange, green/white, green) and negative (48V >> ground) on 4,5,7,8 (blue, blue/white, brown/white, brown). Can anyone tell >> me my mistake? That sounds to be right wire config. How far did you try to >> go with only 48v? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub >> https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4390584 >> or unsubscribe >> https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMGEKLVL4QLSCZDV7ELWLOXNTBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF >> . You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage >> notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS >> https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 >> or Android >> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub >> . How far from the power brick plugged into 110 to the POE injection point? >> — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub >> https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4390754 >> or unsubscribe >> https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMFGPAZBIGAJSRSKI23WLP4GTBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF >> . You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage >> notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS >> https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 >> or Android >> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub >> . >> >> That sounds perfectly fine to me. Maybe something was wrong with the 48v >> converter did you try a voltmeter on it? What amps did the 48v converter >> put out? >> Maybe someone else has some ideas as to what may have happened? >> >> — >> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub >> https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4390776 >> or unsubscribe >> https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMFBX22SHX5ILIMV65LWLQAIPBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF >> . >> You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. >> >> Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS >> https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 >> or Android >> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub >> . >> >> >

Well if it is just the router fried and not the dishy, the router is half useless anyway and not need for functionality, if power injection is done properly. I would get the components that i listed above McCown 800-gige-poe or dishypowa and a ReoLink 52v power brick. Run to a basic linksys or whatever you got router on the data side of the McCown.
Can you give us a very in depth view of what you where trying to accomplish and why you where trying to run this of a battery rather then power brick. Not that it cant be just wondering why you went this route. I am not sure what dishypowas status is on there next gen unit that can run off a large battery voltage range but that might be the route you need if you have to have battery power.

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Dec 5, 2022 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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I don't believe that is correct. I borrowed another router and it behaves identically. Both routers allow login via WiFi, both report that the dish is not powered up, or is rebooting. Why do you say the router is dead?

On Mon, Dec 5, 2022, 12:36 AM Bagheera @.> wrote: @.* commented on this gist. ------------------------------ you killed the router — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4391733 or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMFTD3C4A2BL7ZIH4SDWLV5M7BFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF . You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub .

Not sure at all that is the case that was just bghira thought.

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Dec 5, 2022 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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WIMMPYIII commented Dec 5, 2022

I found today, that my router and the borrowed router have pos voltage on pins 1,2,3,6. I may have not connected properly in my prior test.

On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 8:14 AM John Morfit @.> wrote: I measured the DC voltages on all the wire pairs after connecting back to the SL router. Every one is zero! Does the SL router have a 'dormant' mode that power off the dishy? Or does this indicate a dead SL router?? On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 10:42 PM John Morfit @.> wrote: > BTW, thank you for responding! As you might guess, I'm an unhappy camper > right now, so it is great to have someone that I can speak with about it. > > On Sat, Dec 3, 2022, 10:31 PM John Morfit @.> wrote: > >> I only checked voltage, before connecting SL - after connecting, as soon >> as I saw smoke, I disconnected. If I venture to try again, I'll measure >> current. I assume that since I've not found anything needing change, the >> condition will continue (more smoke). >> >> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022, 9:42 PM WIMMPYIII @.> wrote: >> >>> @.**** commented on this gist. >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> It's a 12V battery bank, fed about 8ft from the breaker panel to the >>> 12-48 converter on 10 awg. Then 48V fed 27ft to the PoE on 14 awg. >>> … >>> <#m_8097072046401898973_m_7125348294402308776_m_-1420044019847022546_m_1579301424341436564_m_-4331165555688670339_> >>> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022, 9:07 PM WIMMPYIII @.> wrote: @.** commented on >>> this gist. ------------------------------ It's about 35 ft from PoE to >>> dish. … <#m_8102826963808532048_> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 3:53 PM WIMMPYIII >>> @.> wrote: @.** commented on this gist. >>> ------------------------------ Oops, I think I broke my Dishy. I powered up >>> my hack 48V system and plugged Dishy in for the first time. The Tycon PoE >>> smoked. Then I coupled Dishy back to my SL router and logged in with my >>> phone. The app says "Offline" and "Starlink disconnected". That's why I >>> think the Dishy is toasted. Regarding my wiring, I have pos 48Vdc on pins >>> 1,2,3,6 (orange/white, orange, green/white, green) and negative (48V >>> ground) on 4,5,7,8 (blue, blue/white, brown/white, brown). Can anyone tell >>> me my mistake? That sounds to be right wire config. How far did you try to >>> go with only 48v? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub >>> https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4390584 >>> or unsubscribe >>> https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMGEKLVL4QLSCZDV7ELWLOXNTBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF >>> . You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage >>> notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS >>> https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 >>> or Android >>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub >>> . How far from the power brick plugged into 110 to the POE injection point? >>> — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub >>> https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4390754 >>> or unsubscribe >>> https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMFGPAZBIGAJSRSKI23WLP4GTBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF >>> . You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage >>> notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS >>> https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 >>> or Android >>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub >>> . >>> >>> That sounds perfectly fine to me. Maybe something was wrong with the >>> 48v converter did you try a voltmeter on it? What amps did the 48v >>> converter put out? >>> Maybe someone else has some ideas as to what may have happened? >>> >>> — >>> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub >>> https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4390776 >>> or unsubscribe >>> https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMFBX22SHX5ILIMV65LWLQAIPBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF >>> . >>> You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. >>> >>> Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS >>> https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 >>> or Android >>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub >>> . >>> >>> >>

Ya that why we have been going the route of the McCown and dishypowa. It is less wire crossing and areas for things to get mixed up then trying to mod a POE that is wired with power on the wrong pins. When we do these every day it is just asking for trouble.

@WIMMPYIII
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I found today, that my router and the borrowed router have pos voltage on pins 1,2,3,6. I may have not connected properly in my prior test.

On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 8:14 AM John Morfit @.> wrote: I measured the DC voltages on all the wire pairs after connecting back to the SL router. Every one is zero! Does the SL router have a 'dormant' mode that power off the dishy? Or does this indicate a dead SL router?? On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 10:42 PM John Morfit @.> wrote: > BTW, thank you for responding! As you might guess, I'm an unhappy camper > right now, so it is great to have someone that I can speak with about it. > > On Sat, Dec 3, 2022, 10:31 PM John Morfit @.> wrote: > >> I only checked voltage, before connecting SL - after connecting, as soon >> as I saw smoke, I disconnected. If I venture to try again, I'll measure >> current. I assume that since I've not found anything needing change, the >> condition will continue (more smoke). >> >> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022, 9:42 PM WIMMPYIII @.> wrote: >> >>> @.**** commented on this gist. >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> It's a 12V battery bank, fed about 8ft from the breaker panel to the >>> 12-48 converter on 10 awg. Then 48V fed 27ft to the PoE on 14 awg. >>> … >>> <#m_8097072046401898973_m_7125348294402308776_m_-1420044019847022546_m_1579301424341436564_m_-4331165555688670339_> >>> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022, 9:07 PM WIMMPYIII @.> wrote: @.** commented on >>> this gist. ------------------------------ It's about 35 ft from PoE to >>> dish. … <#m_8102826963808532048_> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 3:53 PM WIMMPYIII >>> @.> wrote: @.** commented on this gist. >>> ------------------------------ Oops, I think I broke my Dishy. I powered up >>> my hack 48V system and plugged Dishy in for the first time. The Tycon PoE >>> smoked. Then I coupled Dishy back to my SL router and logged in with my >>> phone. The app says "Offline" and "Starlink disconnected". That's why I >>> think the Dishy is toasted. Regarding my wiring, I have pos 48Vdc on pins >>> 1,2,3,6 (orange/white, orange, green/white, green) and negative (48V >>> ground) on 4,5,7,8 (blue, blue/white, brown/white, brown). Can anyone tell >>> me my mistake? That sounds to be right wire config. How far did you try to >>> go with only 48v? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub >>> https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4390584 >>> or unsubscribe >>> https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMGEKLVL4QLSCZDV7ELWLOXNTBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF >>> . You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage >>> notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS >>> https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 >>> or Android >>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub >>> . How far from the power brick plugged into 110 to the POE injection point? >>> — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub >>> https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4390754 >>> or unsubscribe >>> https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMFGPAZBIGAJSRSKI23WLP4GTBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF >>> . You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage >>> notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS >>> https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 >>> or Android >>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub >>> . >>> >>> That sounds perfectly fine to me. Maybe something was wrong with the >>> 48v converter did you try a voltmeter on it? What amps did the 48v >>> converter put out? >>> Maybe someone else has some ideas as to what may have happened? >>> >>> — >>> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub >>> https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4390776 >>> or unsubscribe >>> https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMFBX22SHX5ILIMV65LWLQAIPBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF >>> . >>> You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. >>> >>> Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS >>> https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 >>> or Android >>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub >>> . >>> >>> >>

I think you are stuck trying to RMA or ebay shopping for one.

@WIMMPYIII
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I would love you to RMA without any explanation and see what you get back. and how soon. please let us know if you do.

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Dec 6, 2022 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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Images did not come through on gethub for some reason. but your explanation makes sence. It makes me a little nervous to try the tycon but the McCown is not stocked well atm and dishypowa is only batch runs.

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Dec 7, 2022 via email

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Dec 7, 2022 via email

@torrmundi
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What do you think about NOT having a grounded cable & RJ45 connector from the Dishy? That is my case. All currents must be carried on the wire pairs.

@bghira
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bghira commented Dec 7, 2022

the FCC requires shielding continuity and the CAT5e+ specs require it to avoid ground loop interference

@WIMMPYIII
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What do you think about NOT having a grounded cable & RJ45 connector from the Dishy? That is my case. All currents must be carried on the wire pairs.

You should ground and use a proper grounded Rj45 connector on the dishy side and data to router avoid grounding. So that it is not being grounded in 2 places.

@torrmundi
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Agreed; I should have shielded cable outside, terminating the ground at the lightning surge protection device. Further cabling may be shielded, but should not be allowed to terminate to ground again.

@WIMMPYIII
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WIMMPYIII commented Dec 7, 2022 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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Agreed; I should have shielded cable outside, terminating the ground at the lightning surge protection device. Further cabling may be shielded, but should not be allowed to terminate to ground again.

Any new updates on your situation? Do you have a new dishy on the way?

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Dec 16, 2022 via email

@OleksandrSimakov
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OleksandrSimakov commented Jan 14, 2023

Can I use the setup on the diagram, but with the original Starlink router? The aim in my case is just to extend the cable. I am asking because I thought that there is already one POE (48V) in original Starlink router and what would happen if I bring the Tycon one (52V powered) right after it. Would that work?

C725C2A2-AAB8-4A4F-BA6D-0C4A77C95910

@WIMMPYIII
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WIMMPYIII commented Jan 14, 2023

Can I use the setup on the diagram, but with the original Starlink router? The aim in my case is just to extend the cable. I am asking because I thought that there is already one POE (48V) in original Starlink router and what would happen if I bring the Tycon one (52V powered) right after it. Would that work?

C725C2A2-AAB8-4A4F-BA6D-0C4A77C95910

Yes you can. But I think dishypowa or Mcown injector is a better option.

@OleksandrSimakov
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Thanks

@WIMMPYIII
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Thanks

With dishypowa or the Mcown you are not crossing pairs back and forth you are just terminating standard 568b.

@OleksandrSimakov
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OleksandrSimakov commented Jan 17, 2023

After the setup is done as described (with blue-green swaps on cables to poe and power adapter 52v as recommended), Starlink router lamp is off and the app says „connect to starlink wi-fi“. What could be the reason? When I remove poe and power adapter and connect straight back to dishy the Starlink router lamp becomes on, but the app says starlink is disconnected (probably because of lack of poe). Cat5e extension length is 180‘ and original cable 75‘.
What is I try to use a standard passive poe?

@WIMMPYIII
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After the setup is done as described (with blue-green swaps on cables to poe and power adapter 52v as recommended), Starlink router lamp is off and the app says „connect to starlink wi-fi“. What could be the reason? When I remove poe and power adapter and connect straight back to dishy the Starlink router lamp becomes on, but the app says starlink is disconnected (probably because of lack of poe). Cat5e extension length is 180‘ and original cable 75‘. What is I try to use a standard passive poe?

What power supply are you using? What is it's specs. What injector are you using and what are it's max throughput specs?

@OleksandrSimakov
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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WL7R26Z
and
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P8WNWFD
I plug router cable to injector‘s socket „data and poe“ and dishy cable to the socket „data“ and the adapter starts to make beep sound each several seconds.

@WIMMPYIII
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The dishy should be the poe port the router data only.

@OleksandrSimakov
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Your question revealed my mistake. I used poe with a different pinout. Not this one https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P8WNWFD
But this one
FFEEF693-00C3-4A9B-B267-D2C8C5B3E809

Can I swap the wires to go with this one or I need to buy the exact one above?

@WIMMPYIII
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As long as you get the right + - on the right wires you should be fine. But if you mess it up it can definitely fry the dishy.

@WIMMPYIII
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Your question revealed my mistake. I used poe with a different pinout. Not this one https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P8WNWFD But this one FFEEF693-00C3-4A9B-B267-D2C8C5B3E809

Can I swap the wires to go with this one or I need to buy the exact one above?

Did you get it working?

@OleksandrSimakov
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Your question revealed my mistake. I used poe with a different pinout. Not this one https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P8WNWFD But this one FFEEF693-00C3-4A9B-B267-D2C8C5B3E809
Can I swap the wires to go with this one or I need to buy the exact one above?

Did you get it working?

Not with this poe I mentioned above.
Will wait till a proper one.
At least the dishy is not fried. Works with original cable

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jan 23, 2023

This seems to be a more detailed breakdown of the pinouts; it's a breakdown of the ethernet dongle but there is a lot of information about the power and a little more in the comments. Of course I don't know whether any of it is correct:

https://olegkutkov.me/2022/03/07/reverse-engineering-of-the-starlink-ethernet-adapter/

The two things I find significant (if, of course, they are correct) is that the G O pairs are doubled on the pins but the B BR pairs are not. The author suggests that power is not present on the B BR pairs; the diagram of the pinout states this, and it would make sense, sort of, to do it that way.

The second is @POE_Guys comment about the snow melt; search for "185W". That's what happened to me a couple of days ago; it started snowing and something got fried. Once again I don't know of the 185W figure is correct (I haven't looked at the router teardown to see if there is any chance it can deliver that) but it would seem to make sense to put a pretty damn powerful PoE right next to the antenna.

EDIT: is the data wiring half-duplex? Back in the day we used to run two ethers down one set of 4 pairs using a splitter; the green-orange pair gave the first connection, the blue-brown pair the second (which a splitter had to map back to green-orange on the output). It would make sense not to duplicate the wires for the real data lines, and half duplex is more than enough for StarLink.

@jsharper
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EDIT: is the data wiring half-duplex? Back in the day we used to run two ethers down one set of 4 pairs using a splitter; the green-orange pair gave the first connection, the blue-brown pair the second (which a splitter had to map back to green-orange on the output). It would make sense not to duplicate the wires for the real data lines, and half duplex is more than enough for StarLink.

It's true, 10mbps and 100mbps only use two pairs. But for 1000mbps (gige), you need all four pairs. Starlink definitely needs gige and uses all four pairs. (Note - when using 2 pairs for 10 or 100, it's still capable of full duplex; one pair is for data flowing in each direction)

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jan 23, 2023

But for 1000mbps (gige), you need all four pairs.

Half duplex 1000mps is apparently part of the gigabit standard:

https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/34196/has-half-duplex-gigabit-ethernet-ever-been-used

Gigabit is 1000mbps per double pair, so full duplex is 1000mbps download and 1000mbps upload (on the other pair). StarLink control both ends of the cable; one in the antenna, the other the router, so they could implement half duplex sharing the 1000mbps between upload and download and they would have well over their approximately 200mbps+20mbps peak. Even for business with 200+200 that's still way less than 1000.

The only way to know is to split out the mangled USB-C connectors using a couple of breakouts and experiment. What happens if the antenna is plugged directly into a managed switch? A managed switch is the easiest way I know to debug the other end of an ethernet cable because the management UI says precisely what is happening.

This is what I would actually like to do; my system is fried and I'm on hold with StarLink support (perhaps for ever). I don't know if the antenna, the router, or the cable is the problem but regardless given the number of reports of this problem on r/StarLink it would be nice to remove all but the antenna. All the same it isn't clear to me from this conversation or others what results people have got, if any, from plugging the StarLink ethernet into a managed switch; does it work, is it full duplex and is it reliable?

The negotiation is apparently half-duplex:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet

So another possibility is that the antenna negotations the download side to the BL-BR pairs, where I'm guessing the transmission is more reliable, and puts up with failures on the duplicated OR-GR pairs.

Yet BL and GR have been swapped; that's weird too. I guess it means that, in fact, each half of the duplex has one pair of lines which are doubled and another which are single?

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jan 23, 2023

The whole shebang looks like 802.3bt, as someone observed on Oleg's teardown. It's easy to find with a breakout; just look for "rsig" across the various pairs. The way the wiring works:

https://www.microsemi.com/document-portal/doc_view/136209-next-generation-poe-ieee-802-3bt-white-paper

The rsig connects each of the pair of pairs across which the power must be delivered. The catch is that there is a bridge rectifier in front of each rsig. If the pairs are not matched correctly in the "dual signature" mode bad things are likely to happen. Otherwise, single signature, it should be possible to make any arbitrary pair of the pairs positive and the other pair of pairs negative and, because of the two bridge rectifiers, it seems to me positive will end up on positive and negative on negative from both supply channels. This is assuming the power source on the other end has cojoined positive and cojoined negative.

The first test is to check the antenna rsig to see if it is single signature or dual signature or, maybe, neither (in which case ignore all this post). In "single" it's not possible (I think) to deduce which pairs connect to which bridge rectifier. Indeed if the circuit is rearranged it is easy to see that there are no bridge rectifiers as such; just a pair of diodes to connect each pair to either positive or negative as appropriate (but I guess that is a bridge rectifier, just a four lane bridge ;-)

The transformers burn out if the individual wires from the pairs are mis-wired. This puts the full 48V with it's massive current capability across just a couple of small transformers (well, 50% of the time I think).

So far as I can see any 802.3bt injector should work, such as this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D3CKBMS

I.e. I'm saying that the actual polarity does not matter if it really is 802.3bt and, if it is single signature, neither should the polarity on any pair just so long as two are positive and two negative.

@WIMMPYIII
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The whole shebang looks like 802.3bt, as someone observed on Oleg's teardown. It's easy to find with a breakout; just look for "rsig" across the various pairs. The way the wiring works:

https://www.microsemi.com/document-portal/doc_view/136209-next-generation-poe-ieee-802-3bt-white-paper

The rsig connects each of the pair of pairs across which the power must be delivered. The catch is that there is a bridge rectifier in front of each rsig. If the pairs are not matched correctly in the "dual signature" mode bad things are likely to happen. Otherwise, single signature, it should be possible to make any arbitrary pair of the pairs positive and the other pair of pairs negative and, because of the two bridge rectifiers, it seems to me positive will end up on positive and negative on negative from both supply channels. This is assuming the power source on the other end has cojoined positive and cojoined negative.

The first test is to check the antenna rsig to see if it is single signature or dual signature or, maybe, neither (in which case ignore all this post). In "single" it's not possible (I think) to deduce which pairs connect to which bridge rectifier. Indeed if the circuit is rearranged it is easy to see that there are no bridge rectifiers as such; just a pair of diodes to connect each pair to either positive or negative as appropriate (but I guess that is a bridge rectifier, just a four lane bridge ;-)

The transformers burn out if the individual wires from the pairs are mis-wired. This puts the full 48V with it's massive current capability across just a couple of small transformers (well, 50% of the time I think).

So far as I can see any 802.3bt injector should work, such as this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D3CKBMS

I.e. I'm saying that the actual polarity does not matter if it really is 802.3bt and, if it is single signature, neither should the polarity on any pair just so long as two are positive and two negative.

No, it absolutely does not work!
You may be able to get by with it if you turn the heater off and never use heat, if you can even get it to boot. But if its mounted 150ft somewhere you probably don't want to go without heat.
It is not nearly enough power to handle the load spikes it demands. You need more than 100w if you are going to go over 150ft.
Not all stock routers are 100% stable at 150ft with the 48v internal power unit when it is freezing out.
I think starlink is pushing it very close to the threshold of what awg 23-24 stranded pairs can handle.
Slightly higher voltage takes a little stress off the cable too so depending on your distance it should be at least 52v or higher going over the 150ft mark.
That puts you ahead of the cable failure statistics. The last thing you want is the cable close to the edge of failure on a tree or tower or burried 150+ feet out in the yard or field.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jan 23, 2023

You may be able to get by with it if you turn the heater off and never use heat, if you can even get it to boot. But if its mounted 150ft somewhere you probably don't want to go without heat.

If I do this I will be mounting the PoE injector about 3ft cable length from the antenna. I could probably even drop it to 1ft. The data-only side of the PoE will then sit approximately 18ft from the router (a Synology RT2600ac) and since that doesn't shielded ports I can just run a standard SFTP or, indeed, a cheap 18ft CAT7 (shielded plugs but really thin wire).

I spent a lot of time thinking about it and it is weirding me out that the Orange Brown pairs have doubled contacts. It looks like 802.3bt with a dual-signature PD and then the orange-brown pairs are used for the high current load and the blue-green for the voltage sensitive side. In that case the orange brown could be directly connected to the heating elements (at 48V, or whatever volage ends up at the dish). Having two independent PoE injectors would make sense.

But I suspect that's not what they engineered; I can's see why so many people are suddenly ending up with fried systems just after a snowfall. This is, of course, why I'm investigating this; I can save $50/day on my backup internet (AT&T) if I can fix this without having to wait for StarLink customer support.

@WIMMPYIII
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You may be able to get by with it if you turn the heater off and never use heat, if you can even get it to boot. But if its mounted 150ft somewhere you probably don't want to go without heat.

If I do this I will be mounting the PoE injector about 3ft cable length from the antenna. I could probably even drop it to 1ft. The data-only side of the PoE will then sit approximately 18ft from the router (a Synology RT2600ac) and since that doesn't shielded ports I can just run a standard SFTP or, indeed, a cheap 18ft CAT7 (shielded plugs but really thin wire).

I spent a lot of time thinking about it and it is weirding me out that the Orange Brown pairs have doubled contacts. It looks like 802.3bt with a dual-signature PD and then the orange-brown pairs are used for the high current load and the blue-green for the voltage sensitive side. In that case the orange brown could be directly connected to the heating elements (at 48V, or whatever volage ends up at the dish). Having two independent PoE injectors would make sense.

But I suspect that's not what they engineered; I can's see why so many people are suddenly ending up with fried systems just after a snowfall. This is, of course, why I'm investigating this; I can save $50/day on my backup internet (AT&T) if I can fix this without having to wait for StarLink customer support.

But the amazon poe you listed is $70. Why not just get the injection hardware you know works? Like 800-GIGE-POE or dishypowa and REOLINK 52V 2.88A power adapter.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jan 24, 2023

But the amazon poe you listed is $70. Why not just get the injection hardware you know works? Like 800-GIGE-POE or dishypowa and REOLINK 52V 2.88A power adapter.

Because then I have to buy McCown PoE injector or similar (the NZ product) AND the REOLINK or similar and that's a lot more than $70, or, indeed, $50 for this, which I now have on order:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08MJJTH2B

(I cancelled the Cody order, which had not even been processed.) The above product is clearly documented as having surge suppression and it has a guaranteed delivery date (as did the Cody prodcut). The Cody product has a ground screw as well but the Amazon add doesn't document surge protection.

I couldn't find the 800-GIGE-POE available anywhere; this is the "outdoor" model installed in a weatherproof case. I did find the 800-GIGE-POE-APC (the rack mount model) for $75, including shipping from just one supplier, I have that on order; no confirmation of any delivery time, they said "in stock" but it won't be the first time I've ordered an "in stock" item to have only have it after it was in stock by the retailers supplier. I also have several of the other possibilities on order from Amazon.

The cost is immaterial; as I said I was bleeding $50 (maybe more)/day. I've now got a Plan B that will cost me around $100 per month (continuously) but gives me a failover link.

So what I'm looking for now is a way to fix StarLink and that means understanding the PoE stuff; this is why I am posting here.

What I want is the most reliable solution I can hack and that would seem to mean leaving StarLink out as much as possible and, at the same time, understanding the PoE going into the antenna. I don't want to just hack it (though I will if I have to) I really want to understand it, at least for the next few days.

@WIMMPYIII
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But the amazon poe you listed is $70. Why not just get the injection hardware you know works? Like 800-GIGE-POE or dishypowa and REOLINK 52V 2.88A power adapter.

Because then I have to buy McCown PoE injector or similar (the NZ product) AND the REOLINK or similar and that's a lot more than $70, or, indeed, $50 for this, which I now have on order:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08MJJTH2B

(I cancelled the Cody order, which had not even been processed.) The above product is clearly documented as having surge suppression and it has a guaranteed delivery date (as did the Cody prodcut). The Cody product has a ground screw as well but the Amazon add doesn't document surge protection.

I couldn't find the 800-GIGE-POE available anywhere; this is the "outdoor" model installed in a weatherproof case. I did find the 800-GIGE-POE-APC (the rack mount model) for $75, including shipping from just one supplier, I have that on order; no confirmation of any delivery time, they said "in stock" but it won't be the first time I've ordered an "in stock" item to have only have it after it was in stock by the retailers supplier. I also have several of the other possibilities on order from Amazon.

The cost is immaterial; as I said I was bleeding $50 (maybe more)/day. I've now got a Plan B that will cost me around $100 per month (continuously) but gives me a failover link.

So what I'm looking for now is a way to fix StarLink and that means understanding the PoE stuff; this is why I am posting here.

What I want is the most reliable solution I can hack and that would seem to mean leaving StarLink out as much as possible and, at the same time, understanding the PoE going into the antenna. I don't want to just hack it (though I will if I have to) I really want to understand it, at least for the next few days.

I have used the rack mount versions as well for the same stocking reason. It is very easy to solder a ground wire lead on the metal tab section and is easier to get 100% waterproof in a 4x4x2 electrical box from home depot then the ones made for outdoor.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jan 24, 2023

https://www.neobits.com/mccown_technology_800_gige_poe_apc_mccown_technology_p10399422.html

Yep; that's where I got it from. Here's the text from my orders page. I chose the cheapest shipping option that was offered:

NW568174 Shipped Complete 01/22/2023 $72.33

And, according to FedEx they did it (so that is a ++ for neobits.com):

Monday, 1/23/2023	
3:59 PM
Shipment information sent to FedEx
5:18 PM
Picked up
WEST CHESTER, OH

This is github, not facebook; you asked me to justify investigating PoE injectors and I did, but that was an ad hominem attack from the gitgo.

I'm still simply trying to find the best way to do an end run round what I consider to be a necessary restriction (given that I don't dispute the power rating exceeds that allowed by RJ45) done by StarLink yet implemented in a way that doesn't seem to quite work.

I suggest we discuss why RJ45 is limited to 90W in 802.3bt. It's not simply ISO/IEC 60950, even the white paper for 802.3bt states:

[T]his compliance means that power cannot exceed 100W per port.

Yet my reading of 60950 suggests that the actual limit is 240W per cable; the spec places a hard limit of 60V and 240VA for more than 200ms. But bt has a limit of 960mA per pair so, combined with 60V (bt says 57.6V at the PSE, but close enough) that would only be 120VA max at the PD, given that the current goes out and comes back on the same cable.

I take the Chuck McCown point of using all four pairs for delivery and ground for return (so 4A out and 4A back via the ground) but I actually once owned a house where someone had done something like that (the neutral to a socket was broken so someone jacked it to the nearest available neutral) and that struck me as the most scary piece of wiring I have ever seen.

Addendum to what I said before: the Cody spec sheet (PDF) does actually say it has surge protection, but it doesn't include a spec of the rating.

@WIMMPYIII
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https://www.neobits.com/mccown_technology_800_gige_poe_apc_mccown_technology_p10399422.html

Yep; that's where I got it from. Here's the text from my orders page. I chose the cheapest shipping option that was offered:

NW568174 Shipped Complete 01/22/2023 $72.33

And, according to FedEx they did it (so that is a ++ for neobits.com):

Monday, 1/23/2023	
3:59 PM
Shipment information sent to FedEx
5:18 PM
Picked up
WEST CHESTER, OH

This is github, not facebook; you asked me to justify investigating PoE injectors and I did, but that was an ad hominem attack from the gitgo.

I'm still simply trying to find the best way to do an end run round what I consider to be a necessary restriction (given that I don't dispute the power rating exceeds that allowed by RJ45) done by StarLink yet implemented in a way that doesn't seem to quite work.

I suggest we discuss why RJ45 is limited to 90W in 802.3bt. It's not simply ISO/IEC 60950, even the white paper for 802.3bt states:

[T]his compliance means that power cannot exceed 100W per port.

Yet my reading of 60950 suggests that the actual limit is 240W per cable; the spec places a hard limit of 60V and 240VA for more than 200ms. But bt has a limit of 960mA per pair so, combined with 60V (bt says 57.6V at the PSE, but close enough) that would only be 120VA max at the PD, given that the current goes out and comes back on the same cable.

I take the Chuck McCown point of using all four pairs for delivery and ground for return (so 4A out and 4A back via the ground) but I actually once owned a house where someone had done something like that (the neutral to a socket was broken so someone jacked it to the nearest available neutral) and that struck me as the most scary piece of wiring I have ever seen.

Addendum to what I said before: the Cody spec sheet (PDF) does actually say it has surge protection, but it doesn't include a spec of the rating.

Sorry it came across as an attack I just didn't want to see you or anyone else go down a path of supplying lower wattage then the router itself supplies as it is already underpower to handle the dishy demands.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jan 24, 2023

I just didn't want to see you or anyone else go down a path of supplying lower wattage then the router itself supplies as it is already underpower to handle the dishy demands.

Well yes; I'm certainly not disputing the high power requirements of the antenna. What is more if the antenna is a purely passive PD then, as I understand it, none of the 802.3 PSEs will work at all; my understanding is that if the PSE cannot detect the 'signature' resistance on the PD then it can't put any voltage across the conductor pairs in the first place. If I can use an 802.3bt (which means iff the antenna does the negotiation) then I'd want to find a wiring method that didn't cause the PSE to drop the connection on heater overload and I suspect that isn't possible (the PSE has to drop both the channels, not just the one that overloads). Nevertheless I can turn the snow melt off (I don't need it) and 802.3bt has much better protections.

StarLink are bound by 60950-SELF and by the other cable rating standards (NEC, UL etc). If they put a consumer accessible RJ45 on the cable they also get limited by spec and limitations on RJ45, in particular a consumer connection to existing cabling (CAT5 and earlier) infrastructure. So far as I can make out that is where the 90W comes from. Using a proprietary connector removes the possibility of a consumer connection; either the cable has to be cut or the ends have to be ground off a USB-C socket (I intend to do the latter next). Presumably this is enough to remove the 90W/cable limit and, most likely, allow the router to put 120VA or more into the connector.

@WIMMPYIII
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I just didn't want to see you or anyone else go down a path of supplying lower wattage then the router itself supplies as it is already underpower to handle the dishy demands.

Well yes; I'm certainly not disputing the high power requirements of the antenna. What is more if the antenna is a purely passive PD then, as I understand it, none of the 802.3 PSEs will work at all; my understanding is that if the PSE cannot detect the 'signature' resistance on the PD then it can't put any voltage across the conductor pairs in the first place. If I can use an 802.3bt (which means iff the antenna does the negotiation) then I'd want to find a wiring method that didn't cause the PSE to drop the connection on heater overload and I suspect that isn't possible (the PSE has to drop both the channels, not just the one that overloads). Nevertheless I can turn the snow melt off (I don't need it) and 802.3bt has much better protections.

StarLink are bound by 60950-SELF and by the other cable rating standards (NEC, UL etc). If they put a consumer accessible RJ45 on the cable they also get limited by spec and limitations on RJ45, in particular a consumer connection to existing cabling (CAT5 and earlier) infrastructure. So far as I can make out that is where the 90W comes from. Using a proprietary connector removes the possibility of a consumer connection; either the cable has to be cut or the ends have to be ground off a USB-C socket (I intend to do the latter next). Presumably this is enough to remove the 90W/cable limit and, most likely, allow the router to put 120VA or more into the connector.

Please update us on how that goes.

@proavnerd
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Forgive me if this has already been covered. What if I'm just trying to splice the proprietary ends onto existing category cable? Can I just hack off both ends, terminate them with RJ45 plugs and connect to the length of cable routed through my walls? I presume this will work out just fine, assuming I'm terminating everything 568b. No injectors. Cat6 cable length under 150'. Anyone here done this before?

@WIMMPYIII
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Forgive me if this has already been covered. What if I'm just trying to splice the proprietary ends onto existing category cable? Can I just hack off both ends, terminate them with RJ45 plugs and connect to the length of cable routed through my walls? I presume this will work out just fine, assuming I'm terminating everything 568b. No injectors. Cat6 cable length under 150'. Anyone here done this before?

Yes that will work but keep in mind this will be more resistance then you are going to get with a stock 150ft cable with 2 plugs what you are talking about will be 6 plugs the 2 original and 4 between. And stranded rj45 plugs suck and passing power compared to solid conductors. The stock power supply in the router is already underpowered and undervolted for the power demand the dishy is putting on it. You are probably better off using k2 double blade cable connectors for you splices. But if you are staying under 150ft why not just use the stock cable?

@proavnerd
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Thanks for the reply. The distance is probably 60-80' end to end. While I have no doubt that power would pass better through gel bean K2 connectors, these are more for telephone signal. Data is susceptible to interference and other issues if the twist and shielding is not properly maintained.

You do ask a valid question though. Why not just use the stock cable? This is going on the roof of an ultra high end residence for internet failover. There are cables routed from the roof to the equipment racks already. Putting a new proprietary cable in place would require a tremendous amount of work, as silly as that sounds.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jan 29, 2023

This is going on the roof of an ultra high end residence for internet failover.

This gist is very much for people who are living on the edge. The RJ45 is limited to 90W, and then only with PSEs which meet the requirements of the IEC specs, the StarLink antenna requires more than that.

I just wouldn't do it that way. Run the infrastructure wiring as close as possible to the place the antenna will go, run power too. Put the router there; I'm guessing the installation uses the ethernet dongle because otherwise doing failover is, well, complex. (I have an installation with failover, but mine is the other way round; my local ISP is providing the failover for StarLink.)

Don't splice, or mod, the StarLink kit; just coil the 75ft cable up in the loft or wherever the router ends up. This is what I ended up doing, it worked just fine until the StarLink kit failed, but I own the house so I'm looking at getting rid of the router completely. Believe me when I sell this place that kind of stuff will be removed before the place even goes on the market (I live in the US.)

@proavnerd
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Tonight I replicated the setup at my client's house. The 75' proprietary cable was cut about 15' from the modem end. The signal path is now modem > Ethernet adapter > 15' of proprietary cable with RJ45 jack > 25' of Cat6 with plugs on both ends > 100' of Cat6 with jacks on both ends > 60' of proprietary cable with a plug on the end > dishy.

I'm running through a total of 200' of cable with 2 different cable skews and 3 junctions and it works fine. To validate my results, I pulled out the FLIR camera to take some photos of the connectors. The chatter here and elsewhere indicates that Starlink is using the modified USBC connectors to accommodate the amperage required by dishy. I expected the RJ45 junctions to be the weakest link in the chain and to see some heat generated there. That was not the case though. All the connectors are at room temperature, regardless of whether the heater is on or off.

The cables do appear to be about 3° warmer than room temperature, but that trivial amount of heat could still be residual from me coiling the cables after cutting them off the spool.

Reality here is that you could fill the ocean with things I don't know about how this actually works. How many watts does dishy actually draw when the heater is on? Is it different when the heater is in auto mode vs pre-heat? The cable I used isn't shielded. Does it matter? Should I have eaten that whole burrito? The list goes on forever. But I suspect that this the power supply is designed for the worst case scenario, taking into account voltage drop for the 150' proprietary cable and all the things (heater, servo motors, etc) operating at the same time. Likely for a more sustained period of time than will ever actually happen.

Should you do this? Absolutely not, as noted in the disclaimer at the top of the thread. Can you do this? Probably. Am I actually going to void the warranty on my client's backup satellite internet hardware just to make the cables pretty? -Yup.

@WIMMPYIII
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Tonight I replicated the setup at my client's house. The 75' proprietary cable was cut about 15' from the modem end. The signal path is now modem > Ethernet adapter > 15' of proprietary cable with RJ45 jack > 25' of Cat6 with plugs on both ends > 100' of Cat6 with jacks on both ends > 60' of proprietary cable with a plug on the end > dishy.

I'm running through a total of 200' of cable with 2 different cable skews and 3 junctions and it works fine. To validate my results, I pulled out the FLIR camera to take some photos of the connectors. The chatter here and elsewhere indicates that Starlink is using the modified USBC connectors to accommodate the amperage required by dishy. I expected the RJ45 junctions to be the weakest link in the chain and to see some heat generated there. That was not the case though. All the connectors are at room temperature, regardless of whether the heater is on or off.

The cables do appear to be about 3° warmer than room temperature, but that trivial amount of heat could still be residual from me coiling the cables after cutting them off the spool.

Reality here is that you could fill the ocean with things I don't know about how this actually works. How many watts does dishy actually draw when the heater is on? Is it different when the heater is in auto mode vs pre-heat? The cable I used isn't shielded. Does it matter? Should I have eaten that whole burrito? The list goes on forever. But I suspect that this the power supply is designed for the worst case scenario, taking into account voltage drop for the 150' proprietary cable and all the things (heater, servo motors, etc) operating at the same time. Likely for a more sustained period of time than will ever actually happen.

Should you do this? Absolutely not, as noted in the disclaimer at the top of the thread. Can you do this? Probably. Am I actually going to void the warranty on my client's backup satellite internet hardware just to make the cables pretty? -Yup.

How much more stress is this putting on the internal power supply and how will the dishy handle the voltage and amperage drop over a long period of time is the question.

@OleksandrSimakov
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Should I activate bridge mode if I want to use my own router in this setup?

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jan 31, 2023

Should I activate bridge mode if I want to use my own router in this setup?

So far as I can see bridge mode is only required if IPv6 is required. If you are happy with the StarLink router as an IPv4 failover then I believe it should be possible to plug the dongle ethernet into the WAN port of a router with failover support but would result in triple NAT.

It seems much more simple to use "bypass" (i.e. bridge mode); having two routers just complicates the configuration and, indeed, the StarLink router wifi can't be switched off or hidden so that complicates the user experience as well. Bypass mode isn't perfect because the traffic still goes through two ethernet systems and, most likely, the MCU but I don't know if the antenna will boot without the ethernet connection; with PoE from a separate injector.

@OleksandrSimakov
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Should I activate bridge mode if I want to use my own router in this setup?

So far as I can see bridge mode is only required if IPv6 is required. If you are happy with the StarLink router as an IPv4 failover then I believe it should be possible to plug the dongle ethernet into the WAN port of a router with failover support but would result in triple NAT.

It seems much more simple to use "bypass" (i.e. bridge mode); having two routers just complicates the configuration and, indeed, the StarLink router wifi can't be switched off or hidden so that complicates the user experience as well. Bypass mode isn't perfect because the traffic still goes through two ethernet systems and, most likely, the MCU but I don't know if the antenna will boot without the ethernet connection; with PoE from a separate injector.

Thanks for insights. I would better stick to original Starlink router. For me there is no particular reason to use my own wi-fi router. Original one would suffice for my my needs

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 1, 2023

For me there is no particular reason to use my own wi-fi router.

The terminology has evolved over the years and become confusing as a result. Both StarLink and my local ISP provide a bridge, in the form of the antennae, and then what is now called a router but used to be called a gateway is required afterward. Setting "bypass" mode on the StarLink router bypasses the gateway functionality of the router and means that another router (well, another gateway) is required.

Setting the StarLink router into bypass mode is not something anyone needs to do unless they already know then need to do it.

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