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@joepie91 joepie91/.md Secret
Last active Feb 18, 2016

What would you like to do?

People present

  • Miep / kittehlover
  • David
  • Dennis
  • Elmar / mcfly
  • Lotte
  • Michel
  • Sven / joepie91 (taking notes)


There are a few different options:

  • Shipping containers
  • Building something with steel/metal
  • Building something from wood
  • Creating an entresol

Shipping containers

While possible and a nice idea, as it provides a solid foundation, this will probably not be practical. According to the owners and other occupants, it's hard to get them into the building. You'll need heavy equipment like forklifts to make it work, and it's going to take about a day to get in a single container.

Other problems include the cost, ability to navigate it through the building (because of other structures being in the way), and the fact that some types of containers can't be stacked. It can also be tricky to 'break open' a container, which might be necessary for it to work well for our purposes.

Overall, this is probably not the way to go.

Creating an entresol

This would probably be a good idea. These are generally built very well, usually made of metal, are structurally able to handle large crowds, and have a reasonable resale value if it were to ever be removed.


We very much need insulated flooring on the ground floor, due to the concrete. Elmar remarks that he has access to about 60 square meters of office-grade 'click parquet' that could be used for this, and be reasonably resistant to wear-and-tear.

While the space is 75 square meters, this does not necessarilly all have to be covered, especially if there are plans for a kitchen or other 'fixed furniture'.

Another suggestion raised was to have a false floor of 2cm high, using underlayment - this will incur a cost, but provide very good heat insulation.


Electrical heater(s) will be used. Power is flat-fee and there are no hard limits, but we should be careful not to waste power. Insulation will help a lot with this.

Ventilation and air conditioning

We are allowed to cut holes into the outer wall to build a ventilation system, for eg. the kitchen. Similarly, we can add a fresh air intake. Elmar notes that a hackerspace in San Diego has managed to significantly decrease the temperature of 'intake air' by planting some bushes directly behind the intake on the outside.

Areas that we want to have

  • Sitting area
  • Soldering area
  • Woodworking area
  • Workshop and presentation area
  • Kitchen area
  • Outside area

Kitchen area

Building a proper kitchen area is tricky, because we don't really have proper plumbing. Some suggested solutions:

  • Pumping waste water into IBC tanks.
  • Pumping up waste water through pipes along the ceiling, and having those run to the bathrooms on the other side, which do have real plumbing.
  • Pumping waste water outside, into the rainwater drains. This is not really possible because those drains are only suitable for rainwater and other kinds of "non-polluted" water.

We might want to start out with just a very simply "almost-kitchen", just for things like a freezer and a coffee maker. We can add things like cooking equipment at a later point in time.

We definitely want a bar with pixels!

Outside area

We have a lot of space, and a lot of freedom in what we do with it. We can't dig, as the ground is polluted with asbestos, so everything will have to be built above-ground.

However, the owners would prefer to have the outside area be a communal area, that can also be used for events outside of Pixelbar - eg. barbecues. This space would be on the left side of the entrance, so not on the parking lots.

Miscellaneous thoughts

  • We want a (spiral) slide!
  • Where do we put the stairs?
  • Build an area for beer brewing workshops, steampunk-style, with metal piping and all.

Where stuff goes

The idea is for the ground floor to be a more-or-less 'public space' - a reconfigurable, multifunctional area that can be used for workshops, presentations, and general lounging. It's remarked that Hack42 has a library-style area like this, and this might be an idea as well.

Miep remarks that we definitely want there to be a storage area on the ground floor as well, for example to store the Club Mate - we don't want to have to carry this up the stairs. Miep also remarks that the original idea was to have the ground floor contain all the equipment that is not 'computer-friendly' - for example, equipment that generates a lot of dust.

The first floor would be more 'member-focused'. It wouldn't be strictly separated from the ground floor, but more exist as a way to not let workshops and meetings get in the way of other hackers working on projects. The first floor would also contain the equipment that requires skilled or supervised operation, such as laser cutters.

As far as furniture goes, there's a certain type of 'conference chairs' that are reasonably comfortable, and easy to find on eBay for chehap. This would be a good option for the ground floor, and possibly also for the first floor.

Sven remarks that the ground floor needs to be appealing and representative of the space, to draw people in. Several others agree.

Surroundings and environment

The neighbours

Our neighbours simply use their space for storing materials for events. The other guy in our 'square' has built a laser-cutting area. While his work is commercial, he might be interested in working with us.

Access control and doors

The owners of the building don't like random people wandering around the building, so we can't just leave the door to the street open constantly. It's not a problem if space members are around, though.

The short-term idea is to modify the main entrance, to use an electronic doorlock system like RevSpace has. The same system would be used for access control on the space itself. This would not affect the regular doorlock system (which means other occupants of the building aren't affected), and can be done as a collaborative Keilewerf project.

In the long term, we could create our own entrance to the space, by removing a part of the concrete outer wall. To accommodate this, we should design the space in such a way that this entrance can be added later - for example, by having an easily removable panel in our own wall.

We can't modify or use the emergency exit in any way, aside from leaving it open while we are present, as it has to remain an emergency exit.


The exact budget is unclear and needs to be figured out, but we're going to have some budget available for this year. Budget is heavily dependent on the amount of members that the space has.


Sven remarks that there should be clearer communication of the current status of the space, as well as the construction plans. Several others note that construction is currently in the planning stages, and that updates will be posted when people are needed.

The initial suggestion was to post these updates to the wiki and expect those interested to subscribe to change notifications, but from an accessibility point of view, it would be a good idea to ensure that these updates are broadcast through the mailing list in any case.

The suggestion was raised to have a special part of the Pixelbar site dedicated to the construction phase, but others pointed out that a project on the wiki would already serve this purpose.

Public service announcements

The table saw in the building is expected to be moved on Saturday, and would end up closer to the space. This could be useful during the construction phase.

Work to do

The ideas for the space layout that were submitted at the opening party will be shared, and an SVG of the template is available. Everybody is encouraged to draw their own layout suggestions, and to also think about the outside area, as this is not currently covered on the layout template.

(mcfly) ground floor
	public area
	multifunctional room, reconfigurable
	workshop, presentation, ...
	need chairs and desks
		chairs: series of conference chairs, (used in hotels?), reasonably comfortable, cheap on eBay
	hack42 has a library-like area

(mcfly) first floor
	more an area for us, as registered members
	to avoid workshop participants and such from getting in the way of other hackers
	no hard division
	things that require skilled/supervised operation

(miep) ground floor
	stuff that is dusty, wood workshop, ... - everything that isn't computer-friendly
		mcfly agrees
	storage has to be downstairs, eg. for crates of mate

(joepie91) ground floor
	has to be appealing, representative of the hackerspace

must have a bar with pixels! (mcfly, others agree)

stairs? where do we put them?
a slide!  

sitting area
soldering area
woodworking/workshop area
presentation area
kitchen area ???
	difficult, because of plumbing
	we have water, but the drainage is tricky
	toilets on the other side have built their own sewage system	
	mcfly: container with a pump, IBC
	pump stuff up and run it across the ceiling
	can't use the drain outside, only allowed for normal/rain water
	we want at least a kitchen where you can make coffee and such, can add other stuff later
	think about proper waste water processing at a later point

	tons of space, we can do whatever we want
	safe to say that we'll work with two levels
	want to have a communal outside space for the entire building, for everybody, left of the entrance, not affecting parking lot, can't dig because asbestos.
	we can only build on top of it
	should be useful for events, barbecues and such, not just for us

main structure
	containers -> possible, but in owners' experience and that of others, really hard to do and get it in, even though we like the idea, will probably take a day for one container to get in, because you need a <heftruck>, plus cost is a problem, breaking it open is tricky, not all containers can be stacked
		driving in confined spaces is hard, so placement may be an issue
	creating something from wood -> ?
	with metal -> ?
	entresol...? go look, very sturdy, good for large crowds, metal frame, keeps its value

	is going to be moved from the front to our side of the wall
	this saturday
	interesting for us: ?
	neighbours are event storage people
	guy in front of us built a laser cutting enclosure / building stuff, it's commercial, but interested in working with us
	electronic doorlock! revspace system? do it as our own project, in collaboration with keilewerf
		doesn't affect the normal doorlock
	emergency exit -> probably won't work out, can't make changes because of safety
	do it for the actual front door
	create our own entrance -> not a short-term plan
	build a wall where we can easily remove a part/panel, to add our own entrance later

owner didn't like people wandering around, but that's not a problem anymore, as long as there's a registered member of the space nearby
lock the door from the street, to avoid random people wandering in

	don't need to cover all 75m2
	false floor, 2cm, underlayment
	will cost a bit, but very well isolated

	electrical heater
	no hard limits on power use, flatfee, but shouldn't waste

	we can make holes in the wall to take care of this, eg. for kitchen ventilation
	we can also add fresh air intake

	sucking air intake through bushes will decrease temperature by a lot, done in a hackerspace in san diego
	unclear for now, budget available for this year, but whether we need more budget depends on how many members we will have

steampunk beer brewing area
	approach it as a workshop, because of legality

	mailing list?
	wiki project, subscribe?
	special part of the site for the building project?

everybody will get the drawings and should draw their own, and should think about the outside of the space
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