kabarca/Drupal Governance

## Drupal Governance
Kabarca [2:06 PM]
I do have a question to kick off the thread:


Kabarca [2:06 PM]
You think the outcome of the governance process (once done) that apply to DA related domains (DO, DrupalCon, etc.) should also apply to other community events such as Drupal Camps? Bottom line, should it transgress to all Drupal community events?


eatings
[2:07 PM]
er, breaking out of threads:


[2:07]
‘transgress’ is _definitely_ not the word i would use


[2:07]
it should _apply to all_


Kabarca [2:08 PM]
Thanks @eatings


eatings
[2:09 PM]
since it might jsut be me here, I’ll extend my thought:


[2:10]
we’ve talked a lot in this channel about the idea of overarching values that drupal fundamentally stands for


[2:10]
it stands to reason that the drupal name, if you use it in your event, should bring with it, an application of those values


[2:10]
and with it, certain governance assumptions


stpaultim
[2:10 PM]
I'm going to join in today, if that's alright. Are we not using threads?
1 reply Today at 2:11 PM View thread


Kabarca [2:11 PM]
Hi @stpaultim we are not using threads today


[2:11]
becuse the transcript won’t take them


sparklingrobots [2:11 PM]
I think extending the CoC to camps makes a lot of sense, I don’t know why it would not extend that far.

[2:12]
Depending on what the CoC looks like, I wonder about if Camps wanted to have an even more detailed CoC, how that would work.

[2:13]
Can you upgrade/extend the Drupal CoC?

[2:13]
But, that may be an implementation detail. I just wonder if I were having an event and I wanted to get even more specific with my CoC, how would that play nicely with this plan?


stpaultim [2:14 PM]
I think the practical problem with extending Drupal governance to local events is defining local events. Use of the word Drupal in the title might be one criteria. I was at the Twin Cities Drupal Happy Hour last night. Does Drupal governance translate to that event?

Maybe there is already a solution to that problem.


holingpoon [2:15 PM]
@sparklingrobots FWIW, at DrupalcampNYC, CoC is executed, it is explicitly mentioned at the intro presentation.


stpaultim [2:16 PM]
If I schedule an event and promote it in our local Drupal communication channels, but the DA is not involved and we don't use the word Drupal in the title, does Drupal governance apply?

[2:17]
I'm not necessarily against applying Drupal governance to local events or camps, but the problem from my perspective is that I don't know what that means. What it covers. If the DA is being used as a fiscal agent, that is a clear line and it totally makes sense, but if the DA is not officially involved. Then what?

heyrocker [2:17 PM]
@Kabarca I 100% think it should apply to DrupalCamps that rely on the services of the DA


[2:18]
if not it becomes murkier

eatings [2:18 PM]
i think the use of the name in your event is grounds enough honestly

tim.plunkett
[2:18 PM]
if you use the word Drupal in the event title, the CoC better apply


heyrocker [2:18 PM]
as we’ve discussed before, Dries could take the option of using his trademark on the word ‘Drupal’ to exert leverage on those events

eatings
[2:18 PM]
if you are marketing a Drupal “thing” you have certain obligations


Kabarca [2:18 PM]
I agree with you all but how hard can it be to require CoC in Drupal events that are not “monitored” “certified” (or some other sort) by the DA or a group ie. CWG

heyrocker
[2:18 PM]
and he could make acceptance of the Drupal CoC as part of the contract of gaining access to the trademark


[2:18]
force them to have a reporting policy and such

Kabarca [2:18 PM]
That would be one way @eatings

heyrocker [2:18 PM]
There could be a set of standards


[2:19]
I’m pretty well in favor of that tbh

gdemet [2:20 PM]
I think the CWG can/should provide support and resources to camps that want to adopt a standard code of conduct, but what I would not want is for the CWG to be put in the position of having to *enforce* CoCs for every event.

heyrocker
[2:20 PM]
@gdemet I was thinking that part of gaining access to the Drupal trademark would be an agreement that you accept the CoC and a minimum set of standards in terms of how it is implemented and enforced, which the camp is bound to provide (edited)

laurarocks [2:21 PM]
I definitely think that CoC should apply to all local events also that go under "Drupal name". I think those events are typically the first steps into Drupal community, and that is very important. And my own worst experiences are from small local events (not Drupal) where there was no CoC.


stpaultim
[2:21 PM]
The unintended consequences of this might be that the DA is forced to crack down on the use of the word Drupal for events where there is no official connections AND/OR local groups start to voluntarily disassociate themselves with the word Drupal (not to avoid good behavior, but to avoid potential bureaucracy).

gdemet [2:21 PM]
I'm cool with what @heyrocker said. What I want to avoid is what has happened before, which is that camps copy-and-pasting the Drupalcon CoC without making any edits so the CWG ends up being listed as the point of contact for CoC issues. (edited)

heyrocker
[2:22 PM]
Of course

[2:22]
@stpaultim Technically the DA has no say over the use of the word “Drupal”, Dries does personally

[2:22]
Last I checked anyways

[2:23]
If groups choose to disassociate themselves from the word Drupal in order to avoid having a CoC I think that’s an acceptable solution

sparklingrobots
[2:23 PM]
I think it’s wise to acknowledge that if the CoC is required at smaller events, we will need another way of managing CoC complaints outside of the CWG.

heyrocker [2:23 PM]
it makes it easy to avoid thoe events

stpaultim
[2:23 PM]
@heyrocker - then is it even possible to link governance with the word Drupal?

weekbeforenext [2:23 PM]
joined #governance.

gdemet [2:23 PM]
Dries can/does license the word to others. For example, I believe the DA has the exclusive license for the word DrupalCon.

stpaultim [2:24 PM]
One of the ideas on the table is the suggestion that governance automatically applies to any event that uses the word Drupal. Is that even possible? (edited)

heyrocker
[2:24 PM]
@stpaultim of course it is, it just means the onus of enforcing it goes to Dries personally (or any organization he gives authority to enforce on his behalf)

gdemet [2:24 PM]
Yes, that is possible.

eatings
[2:25 PM]
trademark law and licensing is pretty well-defined, both in teh USA and internationally

[2:25]
the legal basis for such an agreement is pretty sound

stpaultim
[2:25 PM]
Yes, but I'm hearing that control of the Trademark is Dries, not the "governance" body.

gdemet [2:26 PM]
Dries is part of governance

hrodrig
[2:26 PM]
Wait, @gdemet you wouldn't want the CWG to be involved with issues that happen at a camp event? (edited)

[2:27]
Or do you mean more, that they wouldn't be a good first line of communication

stpaultim
[2:27 PM]
I would not assume or suggest that Dries is not part of governance. BUT, if enforcement of governance is TIED to the involvement (direct action) of Dries - then aren't we back to where we started? (edited)

gdemet [2:27 PM]
@hrodrig The CWG can and does get involved with things that happen at camps, but we shouldn't be the intial point of contact. That should be someone on the camp's organizing team.

sparklingrobots
[2:27 PM]
My comment above was assuming @gdemet meant that the CWG would not be able to handle the volume of complaints.

hrodrig [2:28 PM]
@gdemet understood.

gdemet [2:29 PM]
@stpaultim I'm not sure what you're asking

eatings [2:29 PM]
@stpaultim just because dries owns a trademark doesn’t mean that a delegated body can’t be in charge of enforcing its usage terms

heyrocker
[2:29 PM]
@stpaultim I don’t think that Dries being involved in governance has ever been in question, I think the bigger problem has been the level to which he is involved, and the lack of supporting organizations around him

stpaultim [2:31 PM]
@heyrocker - I agree 100%. I'm just trying to clarify whether or not Dries ownership of the Trademark makes it possible to enforce governance (based on the use of the word Drupal in the event title) without making the decisions dependent upon him - and subject to the perception, that he is actually the one deciding. (edited)

gergely.csonka [2:32 PM]
joined #governance.

heyrocker [2:34 PM]
I think he can definitely delegate that authority as he sees fit


stpaultim
[2:36 PM]
OK, well this "thread" started when I suggested that the DA or another authority might be forced to crack down on the use of the word Drupal at local events - and the response implied that only Dries could do that. Maybe, I misunderstood.


gdemet [2:36 PM]
Dries can decide who does it.


heyrocker
[2:37 PM]
The fact that Dries personally owns the trademark on the word “Drupal” does not necessarily imply that he can’t delegate the authority to enforce that trademark, I just wanted to make clear that the ownership was his and his alone and not the DA’s


[2:37]
As it stands today


stpaultim
[2:38 PM]
OK, then I rephrase my original comment - which was that one unintended (or intended) consequence of tying governance to any event that uses the word Drupal, is that some authority designated by Dries, MAY find themselves forced to crack down on the use of Drupal at events where they have no official role or oversight.


heyrocker [2:39 PM]
I think that is an intended consequence as I see it

stpaultim
[2:40 PM]
I think it's fine to see that as an intended consequence - as long as we are clear and intentional about that. And are not surprised when there are suddenly fewer "Drupal" events taking place in local communities. (edited)

gdemet [2:40 PM]
shelves plans for "Drupal for Evil Camp"

heyrocker
[2:41 PM]
You mean Decoupled Drupal Camp? <rimshot> (edited)


[2:41]
Don’t mind me I just hate Javascript


davidhernandez
[2:42 PM]
Does anyone here that has run a Drupal event object or see any downside to being held to a certain standard when hosting events in the future? (edited)

weekbeforenext [2:43 PM]
As a camp organizer, I would love guidance on how to handle CoC issues and would want to honor any CoC actions. I think it starts with guidance and communication with event organizers.

[2:44]
@davidhernandez No. I want to honor the Drupal community I am serving with my event

heyrocker [2:44 PM]
I think the main downsides would be to those that don’t want to be “forced” to honor community standards in the first place

[2:44]
or that would argue there is no such things as community standards

[2:44]
or even that having standards which apply across the communtiy is harmful

laurarocks [2:45 PM]
I can see that it could be a significant task to keep up with all the small events, that don't have any link to DA to make sure that they follow the governance, but if it would be something easy to spot (like the CoC) and it would be known throughout the community that any event using the Drupal name would require certain things from them, it would be easier to others point that out directly to the organizers and reference the documents concerning that.

stpaultim [2:45 PM]
Let me be clear. I am totally in favor of Codes of Conduct and good behavior at local events. I also would love guidance on how to handle these issues. BUT, I can totally see where the "entity designated by Dries" might suddenly balk at me hosting a TCDrupal Happy Hour  - if they are responsible for dealing with anything that happens at that event - and where I might be reluctant to plan such event, if it comes with additional paperwork or bureauracy in the form of getting approvals or filling out paperwork. (edited)

eatings
[2:47 PM]
i hadn’t imagined any other paperwork or approvals other than agreeing to abide by a set of guidelines

weekbeforenext [2:47 PM]
How is governance handled at privately hosted after parties at DrupalCon?

gdemet [2:47 PM]
And if you don't like the guidelines, you could just name your event something else, like "Badcamp" for example...

eatings [2:47 PM]
hey! the d stands for Drupal

[2:47]
it’s totally in the name, and in the LLC papers :slightly_smiling_face:

gergely.csonka [2:48 PM]
what about local camps in other countries that are not in English? Will there be official translations of the CoC? Who will make sure the CoC is enforced? Who will make sure the local organizers who might have a very different cultural background are even able and willing to align with the CoC 100%? Will the CWG be able to handle incidents that happen in other cultures and in other languages as well? I have so many questions…

scottrigby
[2:48 PM]
joined #governance.

heyrocker [2:48 PM]
@gergely.csonka if they aren’t willing to align with the CoC 100% then they can do an event that doesn’t use “Drupal” in the title, that’s a pretty simple solution

[2:48]
The camps will make sure it is enforced, just like US camps

gdemet [2:49 PM]
@weekbeforenext the DrupalCon Code of Conduct does apply to after-events. That's actually where the majority of incidents that get reported to the CWG occur.

weekbeforenext
[2:49 PM]
Good to know

heyrocker [2:49 PM]
This is not a surprise

davereid
[2:50 PM]
Oooh another good question to bring back to Lullabot

heyrocker [2:50 PM]
?

Kabarca [2:50 PM]
heads up, we have 10 minutes left!

laurarocks [2:51 PM]
They can translate "Drupal" to their own language :wink:

heyrocker
[2:51 PM]
true!

davereid [2:52 PM]
@heyrocker Seeing if our upcoming DrupalCon party will have a CoC enforced and how. Although I'd love to just have the Drupal CoC automatically apply.

heyrocker
[2:52 PM]
@davereid absolutely worth verifying

Kabarca [2:52 PM]
How about starting small, at least controlling the events that are published in DO. Having them to comply with a few guidelines including a CoC before they can get published


weekbeforenext
[2:53 PM]
Are the companies throwing the DrupalCon parties the primary contact for an issue or does it go straight to CWG?

heyrocker [2:53 PM]
I would agree that we should just inherit the Drupalcon CoC

Kabarca [2:53 PM]
then again, someone would have to review those submissions

davidhernandez [2:53 PM]
Any event being publicized by drupalcon (website, etc) should have the CoC automatically applied.

laurarocks [2:53 PM]
But to be serious, the translation of CoC would be of course good, right now in my country most the tech events are using english version.

stpaultim [2:53 PM]
@davereid - I read @gdemet comment to imply that official Drupal parties are already covered by CoC.

gdemet [2:53 PM]
@weekbeforenext depends. sometimes they come to CWG first, sometimes to the organizers. Different parties have different levels of sponsor involvement.

davereid [2:54 PM]
Oh doh, I read "doesn't apply" and not "does apply"

gdemet [2:54 PM]
@stpaultim @davereid The DrupalCon CoC has been applied to incidents at both "official" and "unofficial" parties in the past.

stpaultim [2:54 PM]
I assume a party is official if it's being promoted in the program or on the website.

weekbeforenext
[2:54 PM]
Are there lines drawn for official events? I would assume that if they are on the DrupalCon website, they have to comply. If so, sounds like events on D.o would also have to comply. (edited)

stpaultim [2:57 PM]
@Kabarca - I routinely announce events on GDO with the word Drupal in the title and there is no one to approve them before they go live. Are you suggesting that to announce an event on GDO, someone would have to approve it? (just thinking about implications)

Kabarca [2:59 PM]
I think that at least a new URL field for event organizers to point to their CoC would help, or any other way to automatically review


[2:59]
Don’t think as a community we can have “moderators” reviewing and approving events (edited)


davidhernandez
[3:00 PM]
right, it might be as simple as some sort of ToS that says it needs to apply. If it is discovered it does not, the event can be removed.


Kabarca [3:00 PM]
Time is up. Thank you everyone!

[3:00]
This is the last line of text that I’ll include in the “meeting minutes. I’ll have notes up later today or tomorrow. Feel free to stick around and continue the conversation.

stpaultim [3:01 PM]
Thanks for hosting!

ambermatz [3:05 PM]
joined #governance.
	Kabarca [2:06 PM]
	I do have a question to kick off the thread:


	Kabarca [2:06 PM]
	You think the outcome of the governance process (once done) that apply to DA related domains (DO, DrupalCon, etc.) should also apply to other community events such as Drupal Camps? Bottom line, should it transgress to all Drupal community events?


	eatings
	[2:07 PM]
	er, breaking out of threads:


	[2:07]
	‘transgress’ is _definitely_ not the word i would use


	[2:07]
	it should _apply to all_


	Kabarca [2:08 PM]
	Thanks @eatings


	eatings
	[2:09 PM]
	since it might jsut be me here, I’ll extend my thought:


	[2:10]
	we’ve talked a lot in this channel about the idea of overarching values that drupal fundamentally stands for


	[2:10]
	it stands to reason that the drupal name, if you use it in your event, should bring with it, an application of those values



	[2:10]
	and with it, certain governance assumptions


	stpaultim
	[2:10 PM]
	I'm going to join in today, if that's alright. Are we not using threads?
	1 reply Today at 2:11 PM View thread


	Kabarca [2:11 PM]
	Hi @stpaultim we are not using threads today


	[2:11]
	becuse the transcript won’t take them



	sparklingrobots [2:11 PM]
	I think extending the CoC to camps makes a lot of sense, I don’t know why it would not extend that far.

	[2:12]
	Depending on what the CoC looks like, I wonder about if Camps wanted to have an even more detailed CoC, how that would work.

	[2:13]
	Can you upgrade/extend the Drupal CoC?

	[2:13]
	But, that may be an implementation detail. I just wonder if I were having an event and I wanted to get even more specific with my CoC, how would that play nicely with this plan?


	stpaultim [2:14 PM]
	I think the practical problem with extending Drupal governance to local events is defining local events. Use of the word Drupal in the title might be one criteria. I was at the Twin Cities Drupal Happy Hour last night. Does Drupal governance translate to that event?

	Maybe there is already a solution to that problem.



	holingpoon [2:15 PM]
	@sparklingrobots FWIW, at DrupalcampNYC, CoC is executed, it is explicitly mentioned at the intro presentation.


	stpaultim [2:16 PM]
	If I schedule an event and promote it in our local Drupal communication channels, but the DA is not involved and we don't use the word Drupal in the title, does Drupal governance apply?

	[2:17]
	I'm not necessarily against applying Drupal governance to local events or camps, but the problem from my perspective is that I don't know what that means. What it covers. If the DA is being used as a fiscal agent, that is a clear line and it totally makes sense, but if the DA is not officially involved. Then what?

	heyrocker [2:17 PM]
	@Kabarca I 100% think it should apply to DrupalCamps that rely on the services of the DA


	[2:18]
	if not it becomes murkier

	eatings [2:18 PM]
	i think the use of the name in your event is grounds enough honestly

	tim.plunkett
	[2:18 PM]
	if you use the word Drupal in the event title, the CoC better apply



	heyrocker [2:18 PM]
	as we’ve discussed before, Dries could take the option of using his trademark on the word ‘Drupal’ to exert leverage on those events

	eatings
	[2:18 PM]
	if you are marketing a Drupal “thing” you have certain obligations



	Kabarca [2:18 PM]
	I agree with you all but how hard can it be to require CoC in Drupal events that are not “monitored” “certified” (or some other sort) by the DA or a group ie. CWG

	heyrocker
	[2:18 PM]
	and he could make acceptance of the Drupal CoC as part of the contract of gaining access to the trademark



	[2:18]
	force them to have a reporting policy and such

	Kabarca [2:18 PM]
	That would be one way @eatings

	heyrocker [2:18 PM]
	There could be a set of standards


	[2:19]
	I’m pretty well in favor of that tbh

	gdemet [2:20 PM]
	I think the CWG can/should provide support and resources to camps that want to adopt a standard code of conduct, but what I would not want is for the CWG to be put in the position of having to enforce CoCs for every event.

	heyrocker
	[2:20 PM]
	@gdemet I was thinking that part of gaining access to the Drupal trademark would be an agreement that you accept the CoC and a minimum set of standards in terms of how it is implemented and enforced, which the camp is bound to provide (edited)

	laurarocks [2:21 PM]
	I definitely think that CoC should apply to all local events also that go under "Drupal name". I think those events are typically the first steps into Drupal community, and that is very important. And my own worst experiences are from small local events (not Drupal) where there was no CoC.


	stpaultim
	[2:21 PM]
	The unintended consequences of this might be that the DA is forced to crack down on the use of the word Drupal for events where there is no official connections AND/OR local groups start to voluntarily disassociate themselves with the word Drupal (not to avoid good behavior, but to avoid potential bureaucracy).

	gdemet [2:21 PM]
	I'm cool with what @heyrocker said. What I want to avoid is what has happened before, which is that camps copy-and-pasting the Drupalcon CoC without making any edits so the CWG ends up being listed as the point of contact for CoC issues. (edited)

	heyrocker
	[2:22 PM]
	Of course

	[2:22]
	@stpaultim Technically the DA has no say over the use of the word “Drupal”, Dries does personally

	[2:22]
	Last I checked anyways

	[2:23]
	If groups choose to disassociate themselves from the word Drupal in order to avoid having a CoC I think that’s an acceptable solution

	sparklingrobots
	[2:23 PM]
	I think it’s wise to acknowledge that if the CoC is required at smaller events, we will need another way of managing CoC complaints outside of the CWG.

	heyrocker [2:23 PM]
	it makes it easy to avoid thoe events

	stpaultim
	[2:23 PM]
	@heyrocker - then is it even possible to link governance with the word Drupal?

	weekbeforenext [2:23 PM]
	joined #governance.

	gdemet [2:23 PM]
	Dries can/does license the word to others. For example, I believe the DA has the exclusive license for the word DrupalCon.

	stpaultim [2:24 PM]
	One of the ideas on the table is the suggestion that governance automatically applies to any event that uses the word Drupal. Is that even possible? (edited)

	heyrocker
	[2:24 PM]
	@stpaultim of course it is, it just means the onus of enforcing it goes to Dries personally (or any organization he gives authority to enforce on his behalf)

	gdemet [2:24 PM]
	Yes, that is possible.

	eatings
	[2:25 PM]
	trademark law and licensing is pretty well-defined, both in teh USA and internationally

	[2:25]
	the legal basis for such an agreement is pretty sound

	stpaultim
	[2:25 PM]
	Yes, but I'm hearing that control of the Trademark is Dries, not the "governance" body.

	gdemet [2:26 PM]
	Dries is part of governance

	hrodrig
	[2:26 PM]
	Wait, @gdemet you wouldn't want the CWG to be involved with issues that happen at a camp event? (edited)

	[2:27]
	Or do you mean more, that they wouldn't be a good first line of communication

	stpaultim
	[2:27 PM]
	I would not assume or suggest that Dries is not part of governance. BUT, if enforcement of governance is TIED to the involvement (direct action) of Dries - then aren't we back to where we started? (edited)

	gdemet [2:27 PM]
	@hrodrig The CWG can and does get involved with things that happen at camps, but we shouldn't be the intial point of contact. That should be someone on the camp's organizing team.

	sparklingrobots
	[2:27 PM]
	My comment above was assuming @gdemet meant that the CWG would not be able to handle the volume of complaints.

	hrodrig [2:28 PM]
	@gdemet understood.

	gdemet [2:29 PM]
	@stpaultim I'm not sure what you're asking

	eatings [2:29 PM]
	@stpaultim just because dries owns a trademark doesn’t mean that a delegated body can’t be in charge of enforcing its usage terms

	heyrocker
	[2:29 PM]
	@stpaultim I don’t think that Dries being involved in governance has ever been in question, I think the bigger problem has been the level to which he is involved, and the lack of supporting organizations around him

	stpaultim [2:31 PM]
	@heyrocker - I agree 100%. I'm just trying to clarify whether or not Dries ownership of the Trademark makes it possible to enforce governance (based on the use of the word Drupal in the event title) without making the decisions dependent upon him - and subject to the perception, that he is actually the one deciding. (edited)

	gergely.csonka [2:32 PM]
	joined #governance.

	heyrocker [2:34 PM]
	I think he can definitely delegate that authority as he sees fit


	stpaultim
	[2:36 PM]
	OK, well this "thread" started when I suggested that the DA or another authority might be forced to crack down on the use of the word Drupal at local events - and the response implied that only Dries could do that. Maybe, I misunderstood.


	gdemet [2:36 PM]
	Dries can decide who does it.


	heyrocker
	[2:37 PM]
	The fact that Dries personally owns the trademark on the word “Drupal” does not necessarily imply that he can’t delegate the authority to enforce that trademark, I just wanted to make clear that the ownership was his and his alone and not the DA’s


	[2:37]
	As it stands today


	stpaultim
	[2:38 PM]
	OK, then I rephrase my original comment - which was that one unintended (or intended) consequence of tying governance to any event that uses the word Drupal, is that some authority designated by Dries, MAY find themselves forced to crack down on the use of Drupal at events where they have no official role or oversight.


	heyrocker [2:39 PM]
	I think that is an intended consequence as I see it

	stpaultim
	[2:40 PM]
	I think it's fine to see that as an intended consequence - as long as we are clear and intentional about that. And are not surprised when there are suddenly fewer "Drupal" events taking place in local communities. (edited)

	gdemet [2:40 PM]
	shelves plans for "Drupal for Evil Camp"

	heyrocker
	[2:41 PM]
	You mean Decoupled Drupal Camp? <rimshot> (edited)


	[2:41]
	Don’t mind me I just hate Javascript


	davidhernandez
	[2:42 PM]
	Does anyone here that has run a Drupal event object or see any downside to being held to a certain standard when hosting events in the future? (edited)

	weekbeforenext [2:43 PM]
	As a camp organizer, I would love guidance on how to handle CoC issues and would want to honor any CoC actions. I think it starts with guidance and communication with event organizers.

	[2:44]
	@davidhernandez No. I want to honor the Drupal community I am serving with my event

	heyrocker [2:44 PM]
	I think the main downsides would be to those that don’t want to be “forced” to honor community standards in the first place

	[2:44]
	or that would argue there is no such things as community standards

	[2:44]
	or even that having standards which apply across the communtiy is harmful

	laurarocks [2:45 PM]
	I can see that it could be a significant task to keep up with all the small events, that don't have any link to DA to make sure that they follow the governance, but if it would be something easy to spot (like the CoC) and it would be known throughout the community that any event using the Drupal name would require certain things from them, it would be easier to others point that out directly to the organizers and reference the documents concerning that.

	stpaultim [2:45 PM]
	Let me be clear. I am totally in favor of Codes of Conduct and good behavior at local events. I also would love guidance on how to handle these issues. BUT, I can totally see where the "entity designated by Dries" might suddenly balk at me hosting a TCDrupal Happy Hour - if they are responsible for dealing with anything that happens at that event - and where I might be reluctant to plan such event, if it comes with additional paperwork or bureauracy in the form of getting approvals or filling out paperwork. (edited)

	eatings
	[2:47 PM]
	i hadn’t imagined any other paperwork or approvals other than agreeing to abide by a set of guidelines

	weekbeforenext [2:47 PM]
	How is governance handled at privately hosted after parties at DrupalCon?

	gdemet [2:47 PM]
	And if you don't like the guidelines, you could just name your event something else, like "Badcamp" for example...

	eatings [2:47 PM]
	hey! the d stands for Drupal

	[2:47]
	it’s totally in the name, and in the LLC papers :slightly_smiling_face:

	gergely.csonka [2:48 PM]
	what about local camps in other countries that are not in English? Will there be official translations of the CoC? Who will make sure the CoC is enforced? Who will make sure the local organizers who might have a very different cultural background are even able and willing to align with the CoC 100%? Will the CWG be able to handle incidents that happen in other cultures and in other languages as well? I have so many questions…

	scottrigby
	[2:48 PM]
	joined #governance.

	heyrocker [2:48 PM]
	@gergely.csonka if they aren’t willing to align with the CoC 100% then they can do an event that doesn’t use “Drupal” in the title, that’s a pretty simple solution

	[2:48]
	The camps will make sure it is enforced, just like US camps

	gdemet [2:49 PM]
	@weekbeforenext the DrupalCon Code of Conduct does apply to after-events. That's actually where the majority of incidents that get reported to the CWG occur.

	weekbeforenext
	[2:49 PM]
	Good to know

	heyrocker [2:49 PM]
	This is not a surprise

	davereid
	[2:50 PM]
	Oooh another good question to bring back to Lullabot

	heyrocker [2:50 PM]
	?

	Kabarca [2:50 PM]
	heads up, we have 10 minutes left!

	laurarocks [2:51 PM]
	They can translate "Drupal" to their own language :wink:

	heyrocker
	[2:51 PM]
	true!

	davereid [2:52 PM]
	@heyrocker Seeing if our upcoming DrupalCon party will have a CoC enforced and how. Although I'd love to just have the Drupal CoC automatically apply.

	heyrocker
	[2:52 PM]
	@davereid absolutely worth verifying

	Kabarca [2:52 PM]
	How about starting small, at least controlling the events that are published in DO. Having them to comply with a few guidelines including a CoC before they can get published


	weekbeforenext
	[2:53 PM]
	Are the companies throwing the DrupalCon parties the primary contact for an issue or does it go straight to CWG?

	heyrocker [2:53 PM]
	I would agree that we should just inherit the Drupalcon CoC

	Kabarca [2:53 PM]
	then again, someone would have to review those submissions

	davidhernandez [2:53 PM]
	Any event being publicized by drupalcon (website, etc) should have the CoC automatically applied.

	laurarocks [2:53 PM]
	But to be serious, the translation of CoC would be of course good, right now in my country most the tech events are using english version.

	stpaultim [2:53 PM]
	@davereid - I read @gdemet comment to imply that official Drupal parties are already covered by CoC.

	gdemet [2:53 PM]
	@weekbeforenext depends. sometimes they come to CWG first, sometimes to the organizers. Different parties have different levels of sponsor involvement.

	davereid [2:54 PM]
	Oh doh, I read "doesn't apply" and not "does apply"

	gdemet [2:54 PM]
	@stpaultim @davereid The DrupalCon CoC has been applied to incidents at both "official" and "unofficial" parties in the past.

	stpaultim [2:54 PM]
	I assume a party is official if it's being promoted in the program or on the website.

	weekbeforenext
	[2:54 PM]
	Are there lines drawn for official events? I would assume that if they are on the DrupalCon website, they have to comply. If so, sounds like events on D.o would also have to comply. (edited)

	stpaultim [2:57 PM]
	@Kabarca - I routinely announce events on GDO with the word Drupal in the title and there is no one to approve them before they go live. Are you suggesting that to announce an event on GDO, someone would have to approve it? (just thinking about implications)

	Kabarca [2:59 PM]
	I think that at least a new URL field for event organizers to point to their CoC would help, or any other way to automatically review


	[2:59]
	Don’t think as a community we can have “moderators” reviewing and approving events (edited)


	davidhernandez
	[3:00 PM]
	right, it might be as simple as some sort of ToS that says it needs to apply. If it is discovered it does not, the event can be removed.


	Kabarca [3:00 PM]
	Time is up. Thank you everyone!

	[3:00]
	This is the last line of text that I’ll include in the “meeting minutes. I’ll have notes up later today or tomorrow. Feel free to stick around and continue the conversation.

	stpaultim [3:01 PM]
	Thanks for hosting!

	ambermatz [3:05 PM]
	joined #governance.