lhunath/gist:e7179ee69a66c6789fc4

## gistfile1.txt
Thank you for contacting Netflix customer support.

Here is the transcript from your recent chat with customer support:

Netflix Ronnie
Thanks for contacting Netflix This is Ronnie. How can I help?

You
Dear Ronnie, recently, I've started seeing the message "You seem to be using an unblocker or proxy. Please turn off any of these services and try again". It seems to be caused by the fact that I am using iVPN.net to secure my local uplink. Without it, my internet connection is unencrypted and everyone in my local network, including hotspot users, administrators, collegues at work, and others are able to steal my private information, spy on me and compromise my online safety. Does Netflix require that I throw my personal security to the wind for access to its services?

Netflix Ronnie
I do fully understand, that you need it to keep your information safe, by all means we are not against that. The way Netflix work is that it will detects whether or not a VPN/proxy is being used. It's just in general. I would recommend using a different device that is not connected to the network that has the vpn/proxy, or what you can also do is just deactivate the vpn/proxy when you are viewing Netflix.

You
The solution Netflix has implemented, though I understand its motives, has unfortunately severe consequences for all its users; consequences that reach far beyond the amount of control Netflix should inflict upon its users. As a result of this policy, what you're saying is, I need to now purchase a Netflix-dedicated device, or I need to disable my personal protections for the duration of my Netflix viewing.

You
The former is a terrible financial burden and major inconvenience- I want to use my desktop, my iPhone, and all my devices for viewing Netflix wherever I am, whenever, not solely through a dedicated device.

You
The latter is inexcusable as well, considering that even when I am only using my device for viewing Netflix, it is doing a lot of things in the background. Emails are being checked, programs look for updates, I get push notifications, and all that. All of those things now happen without the safeguards of a protected channel. In addition, I often cannot reach the Internet without the use of iVPN's services as a result of local network blocking.

You
Your suggestions are therefore inadequate and we return to the original point – Netflix is requiring that I throw my personal protections to the wind for the sake of gaining access to the services I pay for.

Netflix Ronnie
I do see your point of view, We don't want to keep you from accessing Netflix, We don't want you to throw your personal protections away. Are number one priority is to keep all customer information safe and not put it in jeopardy. I know that you may not be able to disable it. Their are other ways that you still can enjoy our service, One would be simply connecting to a different to a different network that does not have a vpn/proxy enabled. With that you can use any other device as well as the computer. If you are unsure about any other networks that you can connect too. I would recommend getting a hold of the ISP and letting them know what the situation, and what can be done to bypass the vpn/poxy.

You
You appear to misunderstand – the mere act of connecting to a network that does not have the protections ensured by a VPN is equivalent to throwing away my personal protections, since in doing so, I open any connections I make on that network open to man-in-the-middle inspection and intrustion. Any suggestion you have that involves my connecting to an unprotected network therefore falls under the same group as "turn off your VPN". Delegating me to an ISP is akin to not providing me any support and directing me to a third party who does not have the capability of giving me what I need; never mind the fact that this statement of yours is effectively Netflix saying "we created a problem for you and please go ask your ISP to solve it", which is irresponsible, never mind impossible.

You
I can imagine this must be a difficult concept for you to understand - not a lot of users are aware of the amount of exposure they have when they merely "connect to the internet". When your iPhone is connected via a cellular or hotspot service, I'm sure you have no idea what kind of insecurities you are exposing yourself to. I, however, know, since it's my job to know, and therefore I also know that any suggestions you make, while sounding reasonable to you, are in fact, a gross violation of my privacy and the security of the personal and corporate information I transmit and receive every day.

You
I cannot afford to rely on placing my trust in local networks, I cannot trust the mcdonalds hotspot any more than I can trust the local cell phone tower. This is why I use a VPN to encrypt my communications. You are suggesting that you either know better than me or that my distrust is inconsequential and Netflix requires me to stop worrying about the fact that local aggressors can inspect and infiltrate my communications. This is unacceptable.

You
I request that Netflix revises its recent decision and pending such a change, I request that you have the Netflix engineering team install an exception on my account allowing me to continue using my VPN while using the Netflix service. Failing to do so is a violation of your contract with me to provide this service under payment.

Netflix Ronnie
I get your point of view and what you are trying to convey, When you signed up for Netflix vpn/poxy that does goes against our terms and policies. I know that your personal information comes first for you. We do want you to enjoy our service without putting any information in limbo. We don't also recommend using vpns/proxy with our service because Using it can cause you trouble during playback. I really don't know how the vpns/proxys work or how safe they really are. The only Netflix customers that have vpn privileges are military personal.

You
I am not using a Netflix VPN/proxy. I signed up for a personal security service. It has nothing to do with Netflix. Unfortunately, Netflix appears to disagree and is disallowing me service for the mere fact that I enabled a personal security service that encrypts my local network connection. Can you quote me the specific terms I agreed to that you suggest my VPN connection is in violation of?

Netflix Ronnie
I understand that you're not using it to fool our systems and receive content from other regions, however we don't really have a way to know if this software is being used for legitimate purposes or not, so we require turning it off whenever you want to watch Netflix for now. We will be improving our service to be compatible with Networks that have their settings altered for security purposes, this way you can feel free to connect to Netflix through it

You
Well, until then, please refund me my Netflix fee, since I'm paying it while your broken systems are disallowing me service per our contract. I eagerly await your fixing your service.

Netflix Ronnie
Oh it's not something broken, therefor there isn't a fix as such. It's just how we've been evolving on how we detect the altered Networks, I can surely refund you the last month if you're not planning to continue with the service.

You
Alternatively, and preferably, please grant me the same except you grant military personel for the exact same reasons.

You
When you stop servicing your paying customers for reasons not covered by the terms of the contract, it sounds very much like something is broken.

Netflix Ronnie
I totally get you, currently one of the things that we offer is that you can cancel your account at any time and if you like, I can help you with this. We work very hard to offer a secure service and content that is valuable to all of our customers and will continue to do so.

You
So what you're essentially hoping to do here is to justify your recent policy change by forcing your customers to weigh it against cancelling their account.

You
That does not sound like customer service, respect or satisfaction at all; it sounds a lot more like, "we're going to do this, and you're going to deal with it, and if you don't want to, you can go away". That type of utter disregard for your customers is what you're now trying to force upon me using words that sound like it's an offer.

Netflix Ronnie
Actually it is great that you brought this up because although there isn't an exact date on how we will modify these new way to detect altered Networks, right now we are collecting information from our customers regarding this, we are using this feedback to better understand your needs and provide the most immediate and appropriate solution so thank you very much.

You
I'm happy to provide any feedback, and I will do so as constructively as possible. My years of experience securing networks, building identity services and authentication methods are also at your disposal for this purpose.

You
The best feedback, however, requires that I have some information as to what compelled Netflix to institute this change so that I can better suggest how to implement the requirements without affecting security service such as local VPN connections.

Netflix Ronnie
The main reason was to prevent customers from accessing other content from different regions because of our licensing agreements that we have, this has been their ever since we started, just recently it has been reinforced ,

You
I assume that you cannot simply pass on that responsibility to the customer by telling them it is illegal to do so? What compels Netflix to implement widely over-reaching enforcement policies that affect legal means of using Netflix for the sole purpose of enforcing license terms that are not your responsibility to enforce? Or do your license agreements require action on your part to enforce compliance of your customers?

Netflix Ronnie
Well, it's not that we are trying to over enforce the policy, from the beginning our sole purpose was to prevent customers from reaching content from different regions. Since we did go global, we will be changing how the the vpns are detected as well making the content library equal for all countries. Netflix has certain agreements with, the studios and distributors that must be followed.

You
Yeah, still around, doing a few other things as well.

Netflix Ronnie
Thanks for coming back. Let me know if you have any further questions.

You
Well, regardless, it seems that your options for after your feedback process are essentially: 1. revert to the way things were done before (I'm still unclear as to why Netflix has decided to change how it enforces its policies), 2. become more fine-tuned in how you restrict and deny access to services, clearly you are blacklisting a few methods of access that are within the license terms, 3. delegate adherence to the terms to the customer as well as the responsibility to comply and consequences for non-compliance, and in doing so, cease any forced blocking of the service at the technical level (I highly suspect there is no true technical solution to enforcing these terms that does not implicate innocents or accurately covers all offenders).

Netflix Ronnie
Thank you for contacting us and providing us with your detailed concerns, We are here to address them and actually pass them along, all of our customers that contact us with their feedback are actually taken into account. Be assured that this will not be dismissed, if you have any further questions, just let me know, What do you say?

You
Two more questions.

You
1. Can you provide an exemption from this enforcement policy on my account so that you are in compliance with the service I'm paying you for?

You
I'll ask the second after you answer this one.

Netflix Ronnie
Ah! I get you and we don't have direct access which customers are getting this message or not, it's the service that is detecting it, it's not up to us to know which users are getting this message.

You
This is not your service?

You
I mean, the service detecting my VPN usage is not under your control?

You
If so, which service is it and perhaps I can address my concern with their blacklisting of my VPN provider with them.

You
In addition, I would expect that this service's judgement on my usage of a VPN isn't final and Netflix is free to use the service's judgement or ignore it, and if so, I guess what I'm asking is that you exempt my account from a check with this service since I'm only using iVPN.net's services for personal security.

Netflix Ronnie
Under customer service, it's not up to us. This measure is applied to everyone, We don't have a way to select the users that are getting this message as it is done automatically. I understand that you want to use the service with the vpn, but it's simply something that is not allowed on the Terms of Use.

Netflix Ronnie
I Understand*

You
OK. So, 1. answer: no.

You
2. Can you refund my Netflix fee and cancel my account. You're also free to log my email address for if Netflix is interested in further feedback from me "******************", and if this policy is updated, you're welcome to notify me and I may consider signing up again.

Netflix Ronnie
I totally understand that you want to cancel, let me just go ahead and cancel it and apply the refund for you.

You
It's sad to see that Netflix is forcing its customers to choose between security and entertainment, and I'm certain most users will happily forget about personal security in favour of access to TV shows and movies. It's a sad world and even sadder that Netflix is happy to take advantage of people's eagerness to dispense of their own security.

You
I'll opt not to, though, if only to make a statement and ensure Netflix is aware that this enforcement change is the kind that truly impacts people negatively.

Netflix Ronnie
That definitely, not the way we want you to interpret it. We do greatly appreciate your concern, I have already canceled the account, and applied the refund as well per your request.

You
It's the equivalent of calling gay people murderers because they spread AIDS. If you want to be legal, stop being gay. Well, I don't agree with that kind of mentality, and I find it revolting that you personally consent to it with your choice of employment and that Netflix endorses it with its policy change.

You
Thank you.

Netflix Ronnie
Glad we were able to to take care of this for you! Have a great day. And one more thing, if you wouldn't mind, please stay online for a one question survey.
	Thank you for contacting Netflix customer support.

	Here is the transcript from your recent chat with customer support:

	Netflix Ronnie
	Thanks for contacting Netflix This is Ronnie. How can I help?

	You
	Dear Ronnie, recently, I've started seeing the message "You seem to be using an unblocker or proxy. Please turn off any of these services and try again". It seems to be caused by the fact that I am using iVPN.net to secure my local uplink. Without it, my internet connection is unencrypted and everyone in my local network, including hotspot users, administrators, collegues at work, and others are able to steal my private information, spy on me and compromise my online safety. Does Netflix require that I throw my personal security to the wind for access to its services?

	Netflix Ronnie
	I do fully understand, that you need it to keep your information safe, by all means we are not against that. The way Netflix work is that it will detects whether or not a VPN/proxy is being used. It's just in general. I would recommend using a different device that is not connected to the network that has the vpn/proxy, or what you can also do is just deactivate the vpn/proxy when you are viewing Netflix.

	You
	The solution Netflix has implemented, though I understand its motives, has unfortunately severe consequences for all its users; consequences that reach far beyond the amount of control Netflix should inflict upon its users. As a result of this policy, what you're saying is, I need to now purchase a Netflix-dedicated device, or I need to disable my personal protections for the duration of my Netflix viewing.

	You
	The former is a terrible financial burden and major inconvenience- I want to use my desktop, my iPhone, and all my devices for viewing Netflix wherever I am, whenever, not solely through a dedicated device.

	You
	The latter is inexcusable as well, considering that even when I am only using my device for viewing Netflix, it is doing a lot of things in the background. Emails are being checked, programs look for updates, I get push notifications, and all that. All of those things now happen without the safeguards of a protected channel. In addition, I often cannot reach the Internet without the use of iVPN's services as a result of local network blocking.

	You
	Your suggestions are therefore inadequate and we return to the original point – Netflix is requiring that I throw my personal protections to the wind for the sake of gaining access to the services I pay for.

	Netflix Ronnie
	I do see your point of view, We don't want to keep you from accessing Netflix, We don't want you to throw your personal protections away. Are number one priority is to keep all customer information safe and not put it in jeopardy. I know that you may not be able to disable it. Their are other ways that you still can enjoy our service, One would be simply connecting to a different to a different network that does not have a vpn/proxy enabled. With that you can use any other device as well as the computer. If you are unsure about any other networks that you can connect too. I would recommend getting a hold of the ISP and letting them know what the situation, and what can be done to bypass the vpn/poxy.

	You
	You appear to misunderstand – the mere act of connecting to a network that does not have the protections ensured by a VPN is equivalent to throwing away my personal protections, since in doing so, I open any connections I make on that network open to man-in-the-middle inspection and intrustion. Any suggestion you have that involves my connecting to an unprotected network therefore falls under the same group as "turn off your VPN". Delegating me to an ISP is akin to not providing me any support and directing me to a third party who does not have the capability of giving me what I need; never mind the fact that this statement of yours is effectively Netflix saying "we created a problem for you and please go ask your ISP to solve it", which is irresponsible, never mind impossible.

	You
	I can imagine this must be a difficult concept for you to understand - not a lot of users are aware of the amount of exposure they have when they merely "connect to the internet". When your iPhone is connected via a cellular or hotspot service, I'm sure you have no idea what kind of insecurities you are exposing yourself to. I, however, know, since it's my job to know, and therefore I also know that any suggestions you make, while sounding reasonable to you, are in fact, a gross violation of my privacy and the security of the personal and corporate information I transmit and receive every day.

	You
	I cannot afford to rely on placing my trust in local networks, I cannot trust the mcdonalds hotspot any more than I can trust the local cell phone tower. This is why I use a VPN to encrypt my communications. You are suggesting that you either know better than me or that my distrust is inconsequential and Netflix requires me to stop worrying about the fact that local aggressors can inspect and infiltrate my communications. This is unacceptable.

	You
	I request that Netflix revises its recent decision and pending such a change, I request that you have the Netflix engineering team install an exception on my account allowing me to continue using my VPN while using the Netflix service. Failing to do so is a violation of your contract with me to provide this service under payment.

	Netflix Ronnie
	I get your point of view and what you are trying to convey, When you signed up for Netflix vpn/poxy that does goes against our terms and policies. I know that your personal information comes first for you. We do want you to enjoy our service without putting any information in limbo. We don't also recommend using vpns/proxy with our service because Using it can cause you trouble during playback. I really don't know how the vpns/proxys work or how safe they really are. The only Netflix customers that have vpn privileges are military personal.

	You
	I am not using a Netflix VPN/proxy. I signed up for a personal security service. It has nothing to do with Netflix. Unfortunately, Netflix appears to disagree and is disallowing me service for the mere fact that I enabled a personal security service that encrypts my local network connection. Can you quote me the specific terms I agreed to that you suggest my VPN connection is in violation of?

	Netflix Ronnie
	I understand that you're not using it to fool our systems and receive content from other regions, however we don't really have a way to know if this software is being used for legitimate purposes or not, so we require turning it off whenever you want to watch Netflix for now. We will be improving our service to be compatible with Networks that have their settings altered for security purposes, this way you can feel free to connect to Netflix through it

	You
	Well, until then, please refund me my Netflix fee, since I'm paying it while your broken systems are disallowing me service per our contract. I eagerly await your fixing your service.

	Netflix Ronnie
	Oh it's not something broken, therefor there isn't a fix as such. It's just how we've been evolving on how we detect the altered Networks, I can surely refund you the last month if you're not planning to continue with the service.

	You
	Alternatively, and preferably, please grant me the same except you grant military personel for the exact same reasons.

	You
	When you stop servicing your paying customers for reasons not covered by the terms of the contract, it sounds very much like something is broken.

	Netflix Ronnie
	I totally get you, currently one of the things that we offer is that you can cancel your account at any time and if you like, I can help you with this. We work very hard to offer a secure service and content that is valuable to all of our customers and will continue to do so.

	You
	So what you're essentially hoping to do here is to justify your recent policy change by forcing your customers to weigh it against cancelling their account.

	You
	That does not sound like customer service, respect or satisfaction at all; it sounds a lot more like, "we're going to do this, and you're going to deal with it, and if you don't want to, you can go away". That type of utter disregard for your customers is what you're now trying to force upon me using words that sound like it's an offer.

	Netflix Ronnie
	Actually it is great that you brought this up because although there isn't an exact date on how we will modify these new way to detect altered Networks, right now we are collecting information from our customers regarding this, we are using this feedback to better understand your needs and provide the most immediate and appropriate solution so thank you very much.

	You
	I'm happy to provide any feedback, and I will do so as constructively as possible. My years of experience securing networks, building identity services and authentication methods are also at your disposal for this purpose.

	You
	The best feedback, however, requires that I have some information as to what compelled Netflix to institute this change so that I can better suggest how to implement the requirements without affecting security service such as local VPN connections.

	Netflix Ronnie
	The main reason was to prevent customers from accessing other content from different regions because of our licensing agreements that we have, this has been their ever since we started, just recently it has been reinforced ,

	You
	I assume that you cannot simply pass on that responsibility to the customer by telling them it is illegal to do so? What compels Netflix to implement widely over-reaching enforcement policies that affect legal means of using Netflix for the sole purpose of enforcing license terms that are not your responsibility to enforce? Or do your license agreements require action on your part to enforce compliance of your customers?

	Netflix Ronnie
	Well, it's not that we are trying to over enforce the policy, from the beginning our sole purpose was to prevent customers from reaching content from different regions. Since we did go global, we will be changing how the the vpns are detected as well making the content library equal for all countries. Netflix has certain agreements with, the studios and distributors that must be followed.

	You
	Yeah, still around, doing a few other things as well.

	Netflix Ronnie
	Thanks for coming back. Let me know if you have any further questions.

	You
	Well, regardless, it seems that your options for after your feedback process are essentially: 1. revert to the way things were done before (I'm still unclear as to why Netflix has decided to change how it enforces its policies), 2. become more fine-tuned in how you restrict and deny access to services, clearly you are blacklisting a few methods of access that are within the license terms, 3. delegate adherence to the terms to the customer as well as the responsibility to comply and consequences for non-compliance, and in doing so, cease any forced blocking of the service at the technical level (I highly suspect there is no true technical solution to enforcing these terms that does not implicate innocents or accurately covers all offenders).

	Netflix Ronnie
	Thank you for contacting us and providing us with your detailed concerns, We are here to address them and actually pass them along, all of our customers that contact us with their feedback are actually taken into account. Be assured that this will not be dismissed, if you have any further questions, just let me know, What do you say?

	You
	Two more questions.

	You
	1. Can you provide an exemption from this enforcement policy on my account so that you are in compliance with the service I'm paying you for?

	You
	I'll ask the second after you answer this one.

	Netflix Ronnie
	Ah! I get you and we don't have direct access which customers are getting this message or not, it's the service that is detecting it, it's not up to us to know which users are getting this message.

	You
	This is not your service?

	You
	I mean, the service detecting my VPN usage is not under your control?

	You
	If so, which service is it and perhaps I can address my concern with their blacklisting of my VPN provider with them.

	You
	In addition, I would expect that this service's judgement on my usage of a VPN isn't final and Netflix is free to use the service's judgement or ignore it, and if so, I guess what I'm asking is that you exempt my account from a check with this service since I'm only using iVPN.net's services for personal security.

	Netflix Ronnie
	Under customer service, it's not up to us. This measure is applied to everyone, We don't have a way to select the users that are getting this message as it is done automatically. I understand that you want to use the service with the vpn, but it's simply something that is not allowed on the Terms of Use.

	Netflix Ronnie
	I Understand*

	You
	OK. So, 1. answer: no.

	You
	2. Can you refund my Netflix fee and cancel my account. You're also free to log my email address for if Netflix is interested in further feedback from me "******************", and if this policy is updated, you're welcome to notify me and I may consider signing up again.

	Netflix Ronnie
	I totally understand that you want to cancel, let me just go ahead and cancel it and apply the refund for you.

	You
	It's sad to see that Netflix is forcing its customers to choose between security and entertainment, and I'm certain most users will happily forget about personal security in favour of access to TV shows and movies. It's a sad world and even sadder that Netflix is happy to take advantage of people's eagerness to dispense of their own security.

	You
	I'll opt not to, though, if only to make a statement and ensure Netflix is aware that this enforcement change is the kind that truly impacts people negatively.

	Netflix Ronnie
	That definitely, not the way we want you to interpret it. We do greatly appreciate your concern, I have already canceled the account, and applied the refund as well per your request.

	You
	It's the equivalent of calling gay people murderers because they spread AIDS. If you want to be legal, stop being gay. Well, I don't agree with that kind of mentality, and I find it revolting that you personally consent to it with your choice of employment and that Netflix endorses it with its policy change.

	You
	Thank you.

	Netflix Ronnie
	Glad we were able to to take care of this for you! Have a great day. And one more thing, if you wouldn't mind, please stay online for a one question survey.