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(1:05:03 AM) nn-: unknownbliss: reading your comment
(1:05:25 AM) nn-: did you see https://github.com/phpbb/phpbb3/pull/546 ?
(1:05:50 AM) unknownbliss: yeep
(1:06:13 AM) unknownbliss: s/yeep/yes
(1:06:17 AM) nn-: we have a bit of a mess with terminology
(1:06:28 AM) nn-: active/inactive vs enabled/disabled
(1:06:38 AM) nn-: and at no point is anything "installed"
(1:07:06 AM) unknownbliss: I was going by the original RFC and the DB table
(1:07:54 AM) unknownbliss: oh maybe not
(1:07:58 AM) ckwalsh [~Adium@phpbb/developer/ckwalsh] entered the room.
(1:07:58 AM) mode (+o ckwalsh) by ChanServ
(1:07:58 AM) unknownbliss: just the DB table.
(1:07:59 AM) ckwalsh left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(1:08:36 AM) nn-: is there a spec for manifest?
(1:08:39 AM) unknownbliss: I'll edit my comment with terminology
(1:08:42 AM) unknownbliss: n
(1:08:43 AM) unknownbliss: no
(1:08:52 AM) nn-: for terminology we really should pick one
(1:09:02 AM) unknownbliss: paul999 wanted the MOD team to decide whether it would be MODX or json
(1:09:12 AM) nn-: if we keep "available" i would vote for enabled/disabled to avoid two states beginning wiht a
(1:09:12 AM) unknownbliss: DavidIQ?
(1:09:21 AM) DavidIQ: wut
(1:09:32 AM) nn-: if you can make a topic on area51 to settle the terminology that would be awesome
(1:09:51 AM) unknownbliss: when we discussed it last
(1:09:53 AM) nn-: we are not doing modx
(1:10:01 AM) unknownbliss: we were going to post it in mod writers
(1:10:10 AM) unknownbliss: but paul999 said the mod team should decide
(1:10:20 AM) unknownbliss: so I assumed he'd posted something internally?
(1:10:30 AM) DavidIQ: about what?
(1:10:32 AM) unknownbliss: imkingdavid was there at the time too
(1:10:32 AM) DavidIQ: I'm lost
(1:10:34 AM) nn-: json is a standard extension in php, we should use that unless we can't for some reason
(1:10:35 AM) ***DavidIQ is watching CSI
(1:10:36 AM) unknownbliss: extension manifest
(1:10:46 AM) unknownbliss: like name, version, author etc.
(1:11:24 AM) unknownbliss: one sec
(1:11:25 AM) DavidIQ: you mean for the MOD/Extensions installer
(1:11:28 AM) unknownbliss: yep
(1:11:43 AM) DavidIQ: no I don't remember us deciding we'd discuss this internally
(1:11:48 AM) unknownbliss: https://gist.github.com/1762789
(1:11:53 AM) DavidIQ: I don't see a reason to
(1:11:59 AM) imkingdavid: imo let' sjust go with json
(1:12:03 AM) unknownbliss: then paul999 made a comment after that chat log saying or the MOD team should decide
(1:12:18 AM) unknownbliss: ok
(1:12:27 AM) unknownbliss: I'll write up a manifest spec
(1:12:40 AM) imkingdavid: are we going to incorporate extension dependencies?
(1:12:45 AM) unknownbliss: In the main extensions RFC?
(1:13:03 AM) nn-: a new topic please
(1:13:24 AM) unknownbliss: I can't post new RFCs in 3.1 so can I make one and could you move it?
(1:13:33 AM) nn-: what do you mean can't
(1:13:45 AM) DavidIQ: 3.1 RFC forum is locked down
(1:13:46 AM) nn-: did someone actually prohibit that?
(1:13:48 AM) imkingdavid: 3.1 was feature frozen
(1:13:54 AM) imkingdavid: so permissions are set to deny new topics
(1:13:55 AM) DavidIQ: only team members can create topics
(1:13:56 AM) imkingdavid: from non-devs
(1:14:00 AM) imkingdavid: or non-team members maybe
(1:14:15 AM) unknownbliss: yep.
(1:14:20 AM) nn-: i kind of expected better but ok
(1:14:24 AM) nn-: sure i'll move it
(1:14:28 AM) unknownbliss: ok
(1:14:30 AM) imkingdavid: which is why I think we should merge the rfc forums
(1:14:37 AM) imkingdavid: but that's another topic
(1:14:38 AM) nn-: also "extension manager" i believe is already taken
(1:15:29 AM) nn-: maybe extensions admin or something entirely different
(1:15:32 AM) unknownbliss: ok
(1:16:18 AM) nn-: the admin (what you are doing) should use the manager (the other one) to enable and disable everything
(1:16:33 AM) nn-: schema changes should be handled by extensions enable/disable functions
(1:16:40 AM) nn-: i would think
(1:17:08 AM) unknownbliss: yep
(1:17:20 AM) nn-: ext_history i am not sold on
(1:17:22 AM) imkingdavid: well db changes should only be applied when enabled from not being installed (aka being purged). if enabled from being disabled it shouldn't rerun the db changes
(1:17:43 AM) imkingdavid: so then the db changes shuld be undone by purge
(1:17:59 AM) nn-: in any event the ui should not have any logic for determining what changes were or were not done
(1:18:04 AM) nn-: that stuff belongs in extension manager
(1:18:24 AM) unknownbliss: it makes more sense, it also means it shows if it has been installed before
(1:18:52 AM) unknownbliss: and it would be weird to check if the sql was already there.
(1:19:02 AM) unknownbliss: UMIL adds a config value for the MOD version for e.g
(1:19:17 AM) unknownbliss: to check whether to offer install, update or uninstall
(1:19:27 AM) nn-: once again
(1:19:39 AM) nn-: extension admin is ui on top of extension manager
(1:19:43 AM) unknownbliss: yeh
(1:20:05 AM) nn-: extension manager exposes all operations on extensions, including moving an extension from one state to another for all supported state combinations
(1:20:18 AM) nn-: extension admin invokes the respective method on extension manager to do the work
(1:20:18 AM) unknownbliss: But I posted about ext_history in the main extensions RFC (as I did ext_id) but nobody replied and I needed to know so i brought it up in that ticket. ;)
(1:20:29 AM) nn-: if there are missing methods they need to be added
(1:20:44 AM) unknownbliss: I wasn't suggesting it being in the UI
(1:20:58 AM) nn-: ok
(1:21:01 AM) nn-: back to columns
(1:21:11 AM) nn-: i would like to see a positive requirement for the columns you want to add
(1:21:12 AM) imkingdavid: for the record, there are methods to test for specific extensions being available and enable in my PR
(1:21:21 AM) unknownbliss: I'm changing the ticket title to admin yes? And should it be major or blocker?
(1:21:21 AM) imkingdavid: so they should not be added by this feature as well
(1:21:38 AM) nn-: yes, this should be noted in admin ticket/rfc
(1:21:51 AM) nn-: unknownbliss: admin is an acceptable working name, if you have other ideas let's hear them
(1:21:55 AM) unknownbliss: ok
(1:22:13 AM) unknownbliss: I'll gist this conversation and put it in the RFC afterwards. ;)
(1:22:32 AM) nn-: actually imkingdavid if you split the changes to extension manager i'll merge them now
(1:22:54 AM) nn-: since i do believe they work
(1:22:56 AM) imkingdavid: imo the front controller itself works
(1:23:00 AM) imkingdavid: and could be merged
(1:23:08 AM) nn-: yes but i'm not merging that without naderman or igorw approval
(1:23:38 AM) nn-: maybe i shouldn't merge extension manager part either
(1:24:24 AM) nn-: (20:21:11) nn-: i would like to see a positive requirement for the columns you want to add
(1:24:44 AM) nn-: meaning not just doing it for the sake of doing it or because we can, but because it adds value somewhere
(1:25:19 AM) unknownbliss: Could someone move this please: http://area51.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=42555
(1:25:37 AM) nn-: let's obtain some more opinions on the extra columns
(1:25:56 AM) nn-: i am somewhat surprised there is no id column but if we don't need it why add it
(1:25:59 AM) unknownbliss: It would probably be quicker, even if it does mean an extra query.
(1:26:29 AM) nn-: moved
(1:26:50 AM) unknownbliss: For one, theoretically all tables should have a primary key. At the moment the only thing in the ext table is an index for the ext_name saying it must be unique
(1:26:55 AM) unknownbliss: but even so
(1:27:19 AM) imkingdavid: btw off topic, do we support phpbb when it is installed on linux via apt-get? some guy in #phpbb can't get that to work, but I have no experience with that so I can't really help him
(1:27:27 AM) unknownbliss: IDs are easier to use, and probably more secure as they can be cast to ints.
(1:27:36 AM) nn-: i'll take a look
(1:28:20 AM) unknownbliss: I think igorw wanted to try being able to install and update phpbb and use umil and install mods via CLI but ....
(1:31:41 AM) unknownbliss: btw, what terminology would you suggest for the adding extensions to the DB?
(1:31:53 AM) unknownbliss: I was thinking install made the most sense but ...
(1:32:34 AM) imkingdavid: Enable, imo
(1:32:42 AM) unknownbliss: by install I mean add it to the DB disabled.
(1:33:26 AM) imkingdavid: imo if you install it should be enabled...
(1:33:39 AM) unknownbliss: Its a wizard
(1:33:48 AM) unknownbliss: Upload, Install, Enable
(1:34:09 AM) unknownbliss: then enable for the first time would have apply SQL actions and then enabling it in the DB
(1:34:52 AM) unknownbliss: Because enable and disable should Update, not Insert Into.
(1:35:33 AM) imkingdavid: well if the installer is sitting on top of the extension_manager, there is no install() method, only enabled and disable and purge
(1:36:08 AM) ckwalsh [~Adium@phpbb/developer/ckwalsh] entered the room.
(1:36:08 AM) mode (+o ckwalsh) by ChanServ
(1:36:47 AM) nn-: download -> enable -> disable|purge
(1:37:03 AM) ckwalsh left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(1:37:05 AM) nn-: download -> enable -> disable|purge -> delete or remove?
(1:37:27 AM) unknownbliss: ok
(1:37:42 AM) nn-: delete should take care to not delete enabled or disabled extensions
(1:37:44 AM) unknownbliss: How does it get added to the DB if its uploaded using FTP then?
(1:37:51 AM) nn-: enable
(1:38:10 AM) nn-: if you place the files on the server you are doing the download step manually
(1:38:14 AM) nn-: then your options begin with enable
(1:38:18 AM) unknownbliss: ok
(1:38:51 AM) nn-: do we have gzip/zip decompression in phpbb?
(1:39:03 AM) unknownbliss: I haven't looked too hard at the extension manager enable function, does it check if its in the db first then if it is then update, if not then insert into?
(1:39:17 AM) nn-: i suggest only implementing enable, disable and purge for the first version
(1:39:22 AM) unknownbliss: ok
(1:39:23 AM) nn-: leave downloading for later
(1:39:28 AM) nn-: if you do this you may not need manifests
(1:40:24 AM) unknownbliss: Mainifests would be just to carry the name clean and user-friendly mainly but then we could make use of it by using it to host info which can be shown on a details page
(1:42:04 AM) nn-: i am suggesting that you start by writing ui version of develop/extensions.php
(1:42:37 AM) unknownbliss: ok
(1:43:23 AM) nn-: this should be fairly straightforward and the result will be completely functional
(1:43:39 AM) nn-: we can merge that and subsequently work on installing, manifests, better details and so forth
(1:43:42 AM) unknownbliss: ok
(1:44:21 AM) unknownbliss: get a working core we add features
(1:44:53 AM) nn-: exactly
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