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Letter to freenode
Posted on Freenode Limited on the morning of May 12, 2021 US PST:
Approximate timeline:
1. Shells sponsors freenode providing 3k/mo.
2. Freenode lists the shells logo.
3. Tomaw's team attacks christel, who had run Freenode since early
2000, and she resigns, unable to deal with the persistent harassment.
4. Rather than allow for a usual grace period after resignation
(e.g. as we speak, several resigned former-staffers are still OPd
in here), or allow for a reasonable transition from one head of
Freenode staff to the next (something reasonable and responsible
to do to ensure proper continuity of operations), Tomaw's crew
abruptly cuts christel's access while she is asleep that night.
5. Tomaw turns around and asks me a bunch of questions if I'm going
to challenge his control. He also says he understands I am the
owner. I suggest that freenode needs decentralization and good
governance, to prevent the kinds of hasty destabilizing things that
have transpired.
6. I hear whispers that Tomaw is up to something and reach out to
prawnsalad (kiwiirc) who has nothing but good to say about Tomaw.
He schedules a meeting with tomaw and me to mediate.
7. In the meeting Tomaw and I disagree entirely about freenode
domain ownership (which we've since come to an agreement on), but
we both clearly agree in writing not to make any changes to ownership,
governance, or project trajectory until we speak again. I created
a document detailing the discussion on April 8 and general plan on
Google Docs (dated).
8. Rather than wait until we speak again, Tomaw turns around and
changes up the staff and website.
9. Upset that tomaw has renegged on his commitments and acted rashly,
prawnsalad says he's not going to deal with tomaw and discussion
ends; the mediator drops out.
10. I ask tomaw wtf and he brushes me off.
11. I get a lawyer and tomaw says he understands and is sorry etc
and sends me a letter.
12. Meanwhile some other story is being told to the staff that
doesn't match the truths listed here.
Given the millions I have injected into freenode thus far, the fact
I own it and the fact that I protected the freenode staff with
professional legal work and funding when they needed help and they
could still lie and slander like this... says a lot about who they
are. It saddens me that christel was forced out, and I wish she'd
feel safe returning. I'm frustrated that tomaw's hostile takeover
seems likely to succeed, in spite of all. I simply want freenode
to keep on being a great IRC network, and to support it financially
and legally as I have for a long time now.
So this is where we are. I passionately want freenode to survive.
I have serious concerns about the stability of the project with
tomaw here, given his duplicitious and rash actions. But I also
have faith and trust in the freenode staff as a general body. So
it's my hope we can resolve this leadership issue. I proposed a
way to decentralize freenode in the past and would love to embark
on that journey still. Perhaps if tomaw could be forthright with
everyone about what's happened, the staff could decide for themselves,
but I fear he has been far less than forthright. I do not want to
interfere, but I also want to protect freenode from what appears
to be a pretty hostile set of moves that I believe threaten the
network. This concern might point to larger issues we'll need to
address about governance in general, and I'm open to having those
discussions and formalizing fair and reasonable processes. But for
now in the short term, I would really like to work together to find
a resolution to this. Freenode must survive in tact, not torn to
pieces.
@buzztiaan

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@buzztiaan buzztiaan commented May 14, 2021

If you love someone
Set them free

@a-raccoon

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@a-raccoon a-raccoon commented May 14, 2021

I stopped using freenode when it became a woke culture, post-meritocracy movement, elect joe biden, sjw fuckery. You're doing the right thing. The other networks have your back with resources aplenty if you just ask for them.

You should probably make a move sooner, than later, as word is that freenode staff are spamming users to migrate their IRC client settings over to irc.libera.chat

@nucular

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@nucular nucular commented May 16, 2021

I stopped using freenode when it became a woke culture, post-meritocracy movement, elect joe biden, sjw fuckery. You're doing the right thing. The other networks have your back with resources aplenty if you just ask for them.

You should probably make a move sooner, than later, as word is that freenode staff are spamming users to migrate their IRC client settings over to irc.libera.chat

Holy shit
Go outside

@ACleverDisguise

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@ACleverDisguise ACleverDisguise commented May 19, 2021

This kind of shit right here is why IRC is dying a slow death of irrelevancy.

@daniel11420

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@daniel11420 daniel11420 commented May 19, 2021

Hello rasengan,

I do not like you.

@rj1

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@rj1 rj1 commented May 19, 2021

the only thing I find myself thinking while reading this, is wondering why the irc networks are operating smoothly before you get involved, and then the drama shows up when you do. freenode is not the only one

why would you invest "millions" into an irc network? is freenode really this costly to operate? doesn't seem like it when a 3k/month sponsorship from shells is significant enough to land them an advertisement in the website's header

it seems to me that irc culture is better off without your "help"

if you really love irc as much as you claimed to on your original statement on the irc.com website, you could have just come chat. that's how you keep irc alive.

@kunwon1

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@kunwon1 kunwon1 commented May 19, 2021

It would seem that your side of the story is being contradicted by more than half a dozen trustworthy staffers with an established reputation in the Freenode community (which you do not have)

To wit: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/jesopo/45a3e9cdbe517dc55e6058eb43b00ed9/raw/7972a595255560f23d9a61bb7c9f4e696dce1db4/03-freenode.txt

Are all of these people lying? Or are you lying?

@piedoom

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@piedoom piedoom commented May 19, 2021

thanks for ruining freenode capitalist shitcoin scum

@tdfischer

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@tdfischer tdfischer commented May 19, 2021

F

@spiritplumber

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@spiritplumber spiritplumber commented May 19, 2021

realrasengan,

your statements are easily shown to be counterfactual. Make your time.

@evanTj

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@evanTj evanTj commented May 19, 2021

you have only caused problems.

@robbyoconnor

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@robbyoconnor robbyoconnor commented May 19, 2021

lilo is turning over in his grave right now. This is nothing but propaganda.

@Project-Magenta

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@Project-Magenta Project-Magenta commented May 19, 2021

nice capitalist propaganda

@dial8gue

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@dial8gue dial8gue commented May 19, 2021

I stopped using freenode when it became a woke culture, post-meritocracy movement, elect joe biden, sjw fuckery. You're doing the right thing. The other networks have your back with resources aplenty if you just ask for them.

You should probably make a move sooner, than later, as word is that freenode staff are spamming users to migrate their IRC client settings over to irc.libera.chat

I totally agree.
Before, only some woke volunteers, with only their own known intentions, had access to users' personal data, and now suddenly someone else wants to get the same lol. Personally, I have more confidence in Andrew Lee than in "sjw volunteers"

@twl-surrogate

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@twl-surrogate twl-surrogate commented May 19, 2021

wtf is happening can someone give me a tldr

@Abdur-rahmaanJ

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@Abdur-rahmaanJ Abdur-rahmaanJ commented May 19, 2021

To mute or not to mute, just thinking around ~

@TheDcoder

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@TheDcoder TheDcoder commented May 19, 2021

Who is this "tomaw"? I have never heard about him and searches turn up nothing.

@virgiliu

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@virgiliu virgiliu commented May 19, 2021

  1. Tomaw's team attacks christel, who had run Freenode since early 2000, and she resigns, unable to deal with the persistent harassment.

[citation needed]

@zeromus

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@zeromus zeromus commented May 20, 2021

Spent some time looking into this. Simplest explanation seems to me to be that realrasengan really loves IRC and freenode, but doesn't understand how hackers work. Realrasengan needs to accept his schooling humbly, and in particular take note that in the economy of open source, money, biz, and legal acumen do not always earn you a seat at the table, no matter how passionate or smart you are. In fact just a whiff of those things can clear the room entirely. Realrasengan is advised to subject himself to a board of hackers if he wishes to help hackers, rather than barge into the room (as he swore to do in march). That's just the nature of the hacker-operated toys he's purchasing: they might not work if the hackers are taken out.

@jobbautista9

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@jobbautista9 jobbautista9 commented May 20, 2021

I stopped using freenode when it became a woke culture, post-meritocracy movement, elect joe biden, sjw fuckery. You're doing the right thing. The other networks have your back with resources aplenty if you just ask for them.
You should probably make a move sooner, than later, as word is that freenode staff are spamming users to migrate their IRC client settings over to irc.libera.chat

I totally agree.
Before, only some woke volunteers, with only their own known intentions, had access to users' personal data, and now suddenly someone else wants to get the same lol. Personally, I have more confidence in Andrew Lee than in "sjw volunteers"

Ok paid shills

@dial8gue

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@dial8gue dial8gue commented May 20, 2021

Spent some time looking into this. Simplest explanation seems to me to be that realrasengan really loves IRC and freenode, but doesn't understand how hackers work. Realrasengan needs to accept his schooling humbly, and in particular take note that in the economy of open source, money, biz, and legal acumen do not always earn you a seat at the table, no matter how passionate or smart you are. In fact just a whiff of those things can clear the room entirely. Realrasengan is advised to subject himself to a board of hackers if he wishes to help hackers, rather than barge into the room (as he swore to do in march). That's just the nature of the hacker-operated toys he's purchasing: they might not work if the hackers are taken out.

Hackers have nothing to do with it. The whole problem is harassment, lies and refusal to act according to agreement on the part of the "head of the hackers" as represented by Tomaw. This is the way spoiled kids act, not hackers.

@zonidjan

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@zonidjan zonidjan commented May 20, 2021

the only thing I find myself thinking while reading this, is wondering why the irc networks are operating smoothly before you get involved, and then the drama shows up when you do. freenode is not the only one

why would you invest "millions" into an irc network? is freenode really this costly to operate? doesn't seem like it when a 3k/month sponsorship from shells is significant enough to land them an advertisement in the website's header

it seems to me that irc culture is better off without your "help"

if you really love irc as much as you claimed to on your original statement on the irc.com website, you could have just come chat. that's how you keep irc alive.

Given that the servers are all donated and the only thing he actually owns is the domain, I'm gonna say that 3k/mo is what he was paying christel. As to why he thinks he's been paying christel for more than 27 years, I can't say.

@BenLubar

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@BenLubar BenLubar commented May 20, 2021

The "facts" in this post contradict the "facts" in the official blog post which you also apparently made. https://freenode.net/news/freenode-is-foss

I'm not a lawyer, but since you seem to have one, I'd recommend asking whether lying on the record in public statements is a good idea.

@halian

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@halian halian commented May 20, 2021

Hit the road, Jack.

@shentino

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@shentino shentino commented May 20, 2021

I don't care who runs freenode as long as its mission is upheld.

Sort out whatever like men, but don't shit on your staff or your users.

This goes for everyone

@daniel11420

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@daniel11420 daniel11420 commented May 20, 2021

I don't care who runs freenode as long as its mission is upheld.

Sort out whatever like men, but don't shit on your staff or your users.

This goes for everyone

It won't be if rasengan takes over. Move to libera.chat. It's made by all the freenode staff that resigned because of rasengan.

@a-raccoon

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@a-raccoon a-raccoon commented May 20, 2021

https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409/

(A special note for marginalized communities: I won't go into the details further in this gist, but I personally believe that Freenode will not be a safe place for you going forward.)

lol. we are here to protect you. pak chooie unf

@digital-pet

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@digital-pet digital-pet commented May 20, 2021

the only thing I find myself thinking while reading this, is wondering why the irc networks are operating smoothly before you get involved, and then the drama shows up when you do. freenode is not the only one

Hell of a coincidence ain't it?

@tobixen

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@tobixen tobixen commented May 21, 2021

This kind of shit right here is why IRC is dying a slow death of irrelevancy.

I think the death knell was already in 1996, with the split between EFNet and IRCNet. Shortly afterwards, I had friends that had abandoned IRC and was now only available on ICQ. I couldn't understand it at all. Abandoning a working international standard that had a good community, excellent features for group chat, and nick names for a closed, proprietary one-to-one chat system with participants only known with numeric IDs? It didn't make sense at all to me. If it wasn't for the great split, maybe IRC would still have been great, instead of being superceded by some dozens of different proprietary chat providers.

The harbinger for all this was probably to be seen already in 1990, when eris.berkeley.edu was thrown out of the network. I think one of the biggest problems with IRC is that any server operator has super-powers over the whole network, that's a quite bad design choice. Perhaps IRC would still have been great if it was set up such that anyone could set up an IRC server and connect to the network without asking for permission. And, of course, the governance problem. Thirty years have passed since eris was thrown out - it saddens me to see that we still haven't figured out of the governance problems during those thirty years.

If we are to make IRC great again, I believe we need fewer networks, not more of them. Rather than establishing libera chat, it would have been better to recommend some different network. Like, what's wrong with OFTC, EFNet, IRCNet, Undernet, DALNet, etc?

@Freso

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@Freso Freso commented May 21, 2021

I think one of the biggest problems with IRC is that any server operator has super-powers over the whole network, that's a quite bad design choice.

This is one of the things that separated freenode (and now separates Libera.Chat): that’s not allowed.

OFTC and Libera.Chat are different from EFNet et al in that they cater specifically to FLOSS and related audiences. Libera.Chat and OFTC differ in that OFTC cater exclusively to these (requiring other channels to be set to private), where Libera.Chat allows other groups to "set up shop" and thrive as well (within the network policies).

Lots of people like and/or agreed with the way freenode has been run for the last decades. Libera.Chat is a continuation of this. None of the other networks are (incl. freenode).

@tsar-b0mba

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@tsar-b0mba tsar-b0mba commented May 24, 2021

I stopped using freenode when it became a woke culture, post-meritocracy movement, elect joe biden, sjw fuckery. You're doing the right thing. The other networks have your back with resources aplenty if you just ask for them.

this is derangement.

You should probably make a move sooner, than later, as word is that freenode staff are spamming users to migrate their IRC client settings over to irc.libera.chat

this is false. the new upstart freenode "staff" and "ownership" are behind the anti-semitic spamming on other irc networks.

@tsar-b0mba

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@tsar-b0mba tsar-b0mba commented May 24, 2021

I think the death knell was already in 1996, with the split between EFNet and IRCNet.

must be why efnet sported over 100k concurrent users at any time of day or night in the mid-oughts.

@SimVT

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@SimVT SimVT commented May 25, 2021

Boo rasengan,

@tobixen

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@tobixen tobixen commented May 25, 2021

must be why efnet sported over 100k concurrent users at any time of day or night in the mid-oughts.

The absolute number of IRC users were growing from 1996 and for a decade or so, but the relative amount of the Internet population using IRC was falling a lot over those years.

in 2001 there was around one million users of IRC spread across the various networks, versus 100 millions of ICQ accounts.

@rain-1

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@rain-1 rain-1 commented May 25, 2021

This letter contains some tough news. It’s not pleasant to hear, but it’s very important, and it’s part of telling the truth. Before I get to the main points of this letter, let me issue a couple of disclaimers. First, I sincerely dislike Mr. Andrew Lee. Andrew is an intellectually challenged, villainous pococurante who wants only to remake the map of the world into an Andrew-friendly checkerboard of puppet regimes and occupation governments. Second, Andrew unquestionably dislikes me. I don’t know why. Perhaps it’s because I’ve said in the past that if my memory serves me correctly, I once heard a couple people ask him to comment on how we cannot allow iscariotic, malevolent ivory-tower academics to pass unnoticed. Andrew proceeded to bombard these questioners with insults, calling them aberrant suborners of perjury and the like. Sure, Andrew has a reputation for laying into his opponents, but this devious reaction fails to answer the substance of his foes’ points. I hope I don’t need to remind you that the tablecloth of justice has been irreparably soiled by Andrew’s yawping, juvenile prevarications, but it’s still true, and we must do something about it. While Andrew’s semi-literate ramblings might be of some interest to specialists in child communication, it’s despicable for him to scupper my initiative to reach out to the poor, the marginalized, and those unfortunate enough to have been labeled as tasteless by Andrew’s propaganda machine. Or perhaps I should say, it’s pea-brained. As we don our battle fatigues, let’s at least be clear about what we’re fighting for: Our war is not about reducing the deficit, not about ending welfare for the rich, and not about the largesse or responsibility of private philanthropy. All we want is for Andrew’s helpers not to extend an upas shadow over all that is right and good.

While there is inevitable overlap at the edges of political movements, what I wrote just a moment ago is not the paranoid rambling of an inimical wacko. It’s a fact. Let’s understand one fundamental fact: Many years ago I reported that the biggest threat to our society was the number of muzzy-headed, inarticulate stuffed shirts whom Andrew had convinced to ostracize, belittle, and punish people for holding heterodox political views. I wish that I could say to you that the situation has improved. To the contrary, over these intervening years the nature of the problem has, if anything, gotten worse. In particular, our duty should be to let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream. To declare a national emergency, round up everyone who disagrees with him, and put them in concentration camps is alien to this duty. That’s why I want you to know that I want to deliver new information about Andrew’s NIMBYism-oriented, selfish pranks. I want to do this not because I need to tack another line onto my résumé but because what we’re involved in with Andrew is not a game. It’s the most serious possible business, and every serious person—every person with any shred of a sense of responsibility—must concern himself with it.

All that we have achieved may now be lost, if not in the bright flames of officialism then in the dense smoke of the nutty, coprophagous inclinations promoted by stubborn schmegeggies. Andrew’s fierce passions and fiendish cunning, combined with abnormal powers of intellect, with intense vitality, and with a persistency of purpose which the world has rarely seen, and whetted moreover by a keen thirst for blood engendered by defeat and subjection, combine to make him the deadly enemy of all mankind, while his repellent, haughty mantras contribute to inflame his wild lust of pelf and to justify the crimes suggested by spite and superstition.

Andrew does not have a record of tolerance. That sounds really beer-guzzling, but I honestly insist that it’s an accurate assessment of the situation. Yes, I realize that damnable is the least offensive adjective that accurately describes Andrew, but for the sake of brevity I’ve had to express myself in simplified terms. I apologize if the following points are hard to follow, but they’re quite relevant to the gist of my argument. First, Andrew’s yeomen acquiesce with bovine stolidity when he instructs them to spoon-feed us his pabulum. And second, under the guise of fighting scapegoatism, he will shower the most blackhearted, balmy warmongers I’ve ever seen with undeserved encomia. All of this means, of course, that only a person who knows what opportunism is and has a moral belief that it is wrong and has a personal code that keeps him or her from joining in with it, even when there is personal risk and sacrifice involved, can truly set the stage so that my next letter will begin from a new and much higher level of influence. I will do my best to be such a moral person despite the fact that Andrew’s minions have been running around recently trying to judge people based solely on hearsay. Meanwhile, Andrew has been preparing to replace our faculty of intellectual curiosity with rote-learned slogans and dogmatic teachings. The whole episode smacks of a carefully orchestrated operation. If you ask me, Andrew parrots whatever ideas are fashionable at the moment. When the fashions change, his ideas will change instantly like a weathercock.

When all is said and done, Andrew used to maintain that the rigors that his victims have been called upon to undergo have been amply justified in the sphere of concrete achievement. When he realized that no one was falling for that claptrap, he changed his tune to say that he’s a saintly figure—philanthropic, noble, and wise. Andrew is surely an insolent liar, and shame on anyone who believes him. Of course, I’m generalizing a little here. But that’s only because Andrew wants to plant strife and chaos. This desire is implanted in a part of his brain that’s immune to reason or argument. Consequently, there’s no chance that we can get him to see that with him so forcefully peddling the snake oil of obtrusive imperialism, things are starting to come to a head. That’s why we must put an end to grotty, fractious warlordism. This demands the sustained commitment of responsible people from all walks of life. Anything less will simply not be enough. In summary, obstreperous fustilarians have a vision that some day they will manipulate everything and everybody. And nobody expresses that vision with more clarity, conviction, and power than Mr. Andrew Lee.

@Romulus968

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@Romulus968 Romulus968 commented May 25, 2021

"Rather than allow for a usual grace period after resignation"

Homie, when someone leaves, access is terminated as soon as their ass leaves their seat. There's no such thing as a "grace period".

@shentino

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@shentino shentino commented May 25, 2021

"Rather than allow for a usual grace period after resignation"

Homie, when someone leaves, access is terminated as soon as their ass leaves their seat. There's no such thing as a "grace period".

Since when does that apply to customers/users?

@Romulus968

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@Romulus968 Romulus968 commented May 25, 2021

"Rather than allow for a usual grace period after resignation"
Homie, when someone leaves, access is terminated as soon as their ass leaves their seat. There's no such thing as a "grace period".

Since when does that apply to customers/users?

Since when do customers/users "resign" from companies?

@digital-pet

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@digital-pet digital-pet commented May 25, 2021

This letter contains some tough news. [snip]

I ain't reading all that. I'm happy for u tho. Or sorry that happened.

@zonidjan

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@zonidjan zonidjan commented May 25, 2021

must be why efnet sported over 100k concurrent users at any time of day or night in the mid-oughts.

🤣 efnet has been under 100k concurrent users since the mid-oughts. By which I mean 2005-ish. http://web.archive.org/web/20051125052855/http://searchirc.com/network/EFnet

@robbyoconnor

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@robbyoconnor robbyoconnor commented May 25, 2021

Also, another thing: Freenode does NOT need millions lol -- you injected more money than you needed to lol

@tobixen

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@tobixen tobixen commented May 26, 2021

I would like to see the accounting figures, what was those millions spent for?

@Wallby

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@Wallby Wallby commented May 26, 2021

and the fact that I protected the freenode staff with professional legal work and funding when they needed help and they could still lie and slander like this

This seems like a false statement as you state earlier that you have also had reasonable conversations with some freenode staff. There may be a breakup in freenode staff, but that does not mean that it is right to speak for those you have not spoken to.

It saddens me that christel was forced out

An example. Seems like christel here was also freenode staff.

I'm frustrated that tomaw's hostile takeover seems likely to succeed, in spite of all. I simply want freenode to keep on being a great IRC network

Sometimes the best thing to do is to drop out. If freenode is indeed better off without your intervention, then maybe leaving can prove that.

But I also have faith and trust in the freenode staff as a general body

Not too great choice of words. There is no "general body". Each developer is one, and no two people are the same.

Freenode must survive in tact

No. There is no must. If both parties can find a way to put aside their differences and figure out a way to move on without hurting freenode, then freenode doesn't have to disappear.

@Romulus968

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@Romulus968 Romulus968 commented May 26, 2021

This letter contains some tough news

You could have saved a thousand words if you didn't feel the need to embellish and patronize with your demonstration of all the "big words" you know...

@domino14

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@domino14 domino14 commented May 26, 2021

... villainous pococurante ...

nice pasta although i can't really find it on the internet. wtf was this?

@spiritplumber

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@spiritplumber spiritplumber commented May 26, 2021

Pococurante? That's from "Candide" (the one that Voltaire wrote). It means "callously indifferent" and it's Venetian dialect as understood by a Frenchman.

I'd say it's somewhat obscure.

@domino14

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@domino14 domino14 commented May 26, 2021

No, I meant nice copypasta; I snipped a piece of it that I googled to see if it came from somewhere but it apparently was all in this enlightened person's head. It was a coincidence that it was an Italian word...

@Technetium1

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@Technetium1 Technetium1 commented May 26, 2021

Related articles for anyone reading more into this shitstorm...

Do your own research! Do NOT rely on any single opinion or source, also keep in mind 12 other staff members contradict rasengan's claims!

@dmuth

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@dmuth dmuth commented May 26, 2021

UPDATE: OP is taking over FreeNode channels for mentioning Lib*ra Ch*t.

https://twitter.com/assortedhackery/status/1397389032519307266

Stay classy, Andrew Lee.

@robbyoconnor

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@robbyoconnor robbyoconnor commented May 27, 2021

gee, it seems that the staffers who quit were right about you, Andrew.

@hemna

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@hemna hemna commented May 27, 2021

Freenode is dead thanks to Andrew Lee. Such a liar

@shentino

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@shentino shentino commented May 28, 2021

Dear freenode, or whoever is purporting to speak on your behalf:

Evidence continues to pile up that you betrayed the trust of your userbase. If you want to regain it, prove that you deserve it.

If it isn't you, then you need to root out who is, or you make yourself an accessory to whoever is really doing it.

If you sit by and do nothing then you are just as guilty as whoever is supposedly doing it.

Reign in whatever "agent" is presently slandering your good name.

@shentino

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@shentino shentino commented May 28, 2021

At this point I don't care if it's really you doing it or someone doing it on your behalf while you watch.

If you let them, you're an accomplice.


"Judge Dredd : Inhabitants of Peach Trees, this is Judge Dredd.

Ma-Ma : Let him talk.

Judge Dredd : In case you people have forgotten, this block operates under the same rules as the rest of the city. Ma-Ma is not the law... I am the law. Ma-Ma is a common criminal; guilty of murder, guilty of the manufacture and distribution of the narcotic known as Slo-Mo, and as of now under sentence of death. Any who obstruct me in carrying out my duty will be treated as an accessory to her crimes... you have been warned. And as for you Ma-Ma... judgement time."


We will not lie, steal, or cheat, nor tolerate among us anyone who does. Furthermore, I resolve to do my duty and to live honorably, (so help me God).

~Honor Code, United States Air Force Academy


So whoever is in charge of freenode, do your job and crack down on this abuse, and I mean NOW.

Even if it isn't you doing it yourself you're still aiding and abetting if you tolerate it happening on your watch.

I don't CARE who is doing it, it's your job to put a stop to it. Willingly tolerating it happening on your watch is just as bad as if you were doing it yourself, so even if you aren't complicit you are still grossly incompetent.

This is your ship to sail, captain, so do your job and keep your crew in line.

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@shentino shentino commented May 28, 2021

Freenode management: If this isn't your doing you should be pissed as hell at whoever is.

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@Technetium1 Technetium1 commented May 28, 2021

@shentino it is his will, there is no mistake. One does not simply systematically hijack channels by accident.

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@robbyoconnor robbyoconnor commented May 29, 2021

@Technetium1 they even changed the policies to justify their actions -- kind of funny. This is something the Crown Prince of Freenode would do. Fascist.

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@shentino shentino commented May 29, 2021

@shentino it is his will, there is no mistake. One does not simply systematically hijack channels by accident.

Just making sure he can't try to hide behind the excuse of ignorance when he's still responsible for whoever allegedly did it on his watch

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@robbyoconnor robbyoconnor commented May 29, 2021

@shentino it is his will, there is no mistake. One does not simply systematically hijack channels by accident.

Just making sure he can't try to hide behind the excuse of ignorance when he's still responsible for whoever allegedly did it on his watch

There is no way he can hide behind ignorance, @shentino

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@shentino shentino commented May 29, 2021

He seems devious enough to try, and either way I don't want him using any loopholes later, so I'm crucifying him here and now.

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@a-raccoon a-raccoon commented May 29, 2021

Freedom of speech is not without freedom from consequence. If you tell everyone to move to a different network, and spam a freenode channel with propaganda, then it only makes sense to punish those spammers. Thems the consequences.

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@shentino shentino commented May 29, 2021

But is it really spam though? I'm curious, and I think that it very much depends on who sent the message and why.

One important question I want kept on the foreground is whether or not freenode staff interfered with the autonomy of the projects they were hosting.

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@tobixen tobixen commented May 29, 2021

I think there is a major difference. If some project has had the freenode channel as their official communication channel, then it's bad to have more than one such channel, and to me it seems fully legit to inform everyone about the new official communication channel. (It's not spamming about a competing network, it's information about where to find the official channel).

If the "New Freenode" should just be a general place for discussing free and open source software, with or without the blessings and participation of key members and maintainers of the projects, then the new policy makes sense. However, such a network adds very little value to the communities - it may even add negative value as people (who didn't get the memo) may go to the "New Freenode" and expect to get in touch with the project maintainers there.

I see some people seeing this as no crisis at all - it's just to move to Libera Chat or OFTC. I think those people may be underestimating the amount of people who either "didn't get the memo", doesn't care, or is too lazy to change the IRC configuration.

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@arivega arivega commented May 29, 2021

somebody needs to know what not being a hermit is

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@shentino shentino commented May 29, 2021

I think there is a major difference. If some project has had the freenode channel as their official communication channel, then it's bad to have more than one such channel, and to me it seems fully legit to inform everyone about the new official communication channel. (It's not spamming about a competing network, it's information about where to find the official channel).

If the "New Freenode" should just be a general place for discussing free and open source software, with or without the blessings and participation of key members and maintainers of the projects, then the new policy makes sense. However, such a network adds very little value to the communities - it may even add negative value as people (who didn't get the memo) may go to the "New Freenode" and expect to get in touch with the project maintainers there.

I see some people seeing this as no crisis at all - it's just to move to Libera Chat or OFTC. I think those people may be underestimating the amount of people who either "didn't get the memo", doesn't care, or is too lazy to change the IRC configuration.

None of which is any of the freenode "staff"'s business unless network aup is being violated, and the burden of proof for that is on the freenode staff.

The project itself is the one with jurisdiction over where it is hosted, and freenode has NO business interfering. Even if the project is being sloppy with managing their communication channels that's no excuse for freenode to interfere.

The problem is that freenode, for whatever reason, took upon itself the initiative to make a decision it had no business making in the first place without the blessing of the projects.

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@robbyoconnor robbyoconnor commented May 29, 2021

Freedom of speech is not without freedom from consequence. If you tell everyone to move to a different network, and spam a freenode channel with propaganda, then it only makes sense to punish those spammers. Thems the consequences.

LOL

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@shentino shentino commented May 29, 2021

Bottom line, it isn't spam if it's being posted by the project itself for the express purpose of migration.

Calling it spam and deliberately undermining the project's autonomy is a farce AND YOU KNOW IT.

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@a-raccoon a-raccoon commented May 29, 2021

Bottom line, it isn't spam if it's being posted by the project itself for the express purpose of migration.

A project is a collection of dozens or hundreds of individuals. Freenode Staff are squelching the 1 or 2 Social Justice Warriors trying to "start a movement" by spamming everyone to switch networks or else face the consequences of SJW scorn and cancellation. If a project truly wants to move from one IRC network to another, they will edit their project README or WIKI or WEBSITE. They're not going to send out guerrilla forces to harass everyone into being shepherded. The people being harassed have complained and asked for it to stop, and the Freenode Staff have done this.

This isn't abut projects or autonomy, it's about far-left social justice warrior types grasping for control through bullying, shaming and struggle sessions. The New Staff have put an end to this off-topic bullshit, and I commemorate them for it. 80 thousand other network users agree.

It is now off-topic to bully and harass projects to sign post-meritocracy and code of conflict ally petitions and other such nonsense. Let's just focus on writing good code and leave the social issues at home or with your therapist. Freenode is a Socialist Free Zone.

If any user or channel operator tells users to switch networks, they will be banned from the network and the channel will be given to someone else who wants to use it. Those are the rules.

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@shentino shentino commented May 29, 2021

Bottom line, it isn't spam if it's being posted by the project itself for the express purpose of migration.

A project is a collection of dozens or hundreds of individuals. Freenode Staff are squelching the 1 or 2 Social Justice Warriors trying to "start a movement" by spamming everyone to switch networks or else face the consequences of SJW scorn and cancellation. If a project truly wants to move from one IRC network to another, they will edit their project README or WIKI or WEBSITE. They're not going to send out guerrilla forces to harass everyone into being shepherded. The people being harassed have complained and asked for it to stop, and the Freenode Staff have done this.

This isn't abut projects or autonomy, it's about far-left social justice warrior types grasping for control through bullying, shaming and struggle sessions. The New Staff have put an end to this off-topic bullshit, and I commemorate them for it.

It is now off-topic to bully and harass projects to sign post-meritocracy and code of conflict ally petitions and other such nonsense. Let's just focus on writing good code and leave the social issues at home or with your therapist.

Your blatantly unprofessional tone in defense of them is completely unwelcome here.

It is not off topic to announce a migration.

You are deliberately defending malicious actors who hijacked freenode. I don't blame the freenode staff for their mutiny.

You have NO BUSINESS interfering with how a project runs their channel and this is nothing more than being a rules lawyer trying to abusively interpret freenode policy for the sole purpose of sabotaging an evacuation away from a network that quite deservedly has lost the trust of its userbase.

Don't think for a moment that we don't know damn well what you're up to and I'm not the only one that can see through your bullshit.

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@tdfischer tdfischer commented May 29, 2021

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@a-raccoon a-raccoon commented May 29, 2021

Your blatantly unprofessional tone in defense of them is completely unwelcome here.

YOU nor your ilk get to decide what is welcome here, any more. You've been kicked out. So long, farewell.

Freenode is free again.

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@tobixen tobixen commented May 29, 2021

The project itself is the one with jurisdiction over where it is hosted, and freenode has NO business interfering. Even if the project is being sloppy with managing their communication channels that's no excuse for freenode to interfere.

That is correct, but I'm not sure if you got my point. The very nature of Freenode has changed a lot with the new ownership, management and policy. From the perspective that a single person now owns Freenode (personally I think it's theft - and I think people are underestimating the value of the "brand name" and DNS pointers - but that's besides the point), he is free to do whatever he thinks is best for Freenode (I'm a big fan of Hanlon's razor) - just like the owners of Facebook, Twitter and StackExchange can do whatever they think are best for their products - including freezing accounts, throwing people out.

What is best for Freenode does not necessarily align with what is best for the communities or society as such. For the society as such it's better that there is one channel at one network for the communication on a product - and if the more active part of the community (including the channel owners) decides to move to Liberachat, it's a good idea to ensure this is clearly stated in the topic of the channel, and that the freenode channel is closed for communication. However, the best thing for freenode is of course that the channel ownership is transferred to someone else, and that the topic won't send people to a competing platform.

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@shentino shentino commented May 29, 2021

Your blatantly unprofessional tone in defense of them is completely unwelcome here.

YOU nor your ilk get to decide what is welcome here, any more. You've been kicked out. So long, farewell.

Freenode is free again.

You didn't even do your homework. I have not been kicked out of freenode, and you treating that as a fait accompli when I'm not even one of the people you kicked out in the first place betrays the fact that you care more about the politics than the facts.

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@shentino shentino commented May 29, 2021

Bottom line, it isn't spam if it's being posted by the project itself for the express purpose of migration.

A project is a collection of dozens or hundreds of individuals. Freenode Staff are squelching the 1 or 2 Social Justice Warriors trying to "start a movement" by spamming everyone to switch networks or else face the consequences of SJW scorn and cancellation. If a project truly wants to move from one IRC network to another, they will edit their project README or WIKI or WEBSITE. They're not going to send out guerrilla forces to harass everyone into being shepherded. The people being harassed have complained and asked for it to stop, and the Freenode Staff have done this.

This isn't abut projects or autonomy, it's about far-left social justice warrior types grasping for control through bullying, shaming and struggle sessions. The New Staff have put an end to this off-topic bullshit, and I commemorate them for it. 80 thousand other network users agree.

It is now off-topic to bully and harass projects to sign post-meritocracy and code of conflict ally petitions and other such nonsense. Let's just focus on writing good code and leave the social issues at home or with your therapist. Freenode is a Socialist Free Zone.

If any user or channel operator tells users to switch networks, they will be banned from the network and the channel will be given to someone else who wants to use it. Those are the rules.

One point you seem to have missed is that it's the projects THEMSELVES deciding to migrate to a competitor. Nobody is bullying anyone. Except maybe you for trying to twist the facts to suit your own ends.

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@shentino shentino commented May 29, 2021

The project itself is the one with jurisdiction over where it is hosted, and freenode has NO business interfering. Even if the project is being sloppy with managing their communication channels that's no excuse for freenode to interfere.

That is correct, but I'm not sure if you got my point. The very nature of Freenode has changed a lot with the new ownership, management and policy. From the perspective that a single person now owns Freenode (personally I think it's theft - and I think people are underestimating the value of the "brand name" and DNS pointers - but that's besides the point), he is free to do whatever he thinks is best for Freenode (I'm a big fan of Hanlon's razor) - just like the owners of Facebook, Twitter and StackExchange can do whatever they think are best for their products - including freezing accounts, throwing people out.

What is best for Freenode does not necessarily align with what is best for the communities or society as such. For the society as such it's better that there is one channel at one network for the communication on a product - and if the more active part of the community (including the channel owners) decides to move to Liberachat, it's a good idea to ensure this is clearly stated in the topic of the channel, and that the freenode channel is closed for communication. However, the best thing for freenode is of course that the channel ownership is transferred to someone else, and that the topic won't send people to a competing platform.

And this is why it's being described as a hostile takeover and a coup in the first place, and very much explains why libera is composed of a lot of the people who RESIGNED from freenode over the debacle.

The fact that a lot of projects followed suit speaks well of the political reality.

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@a-raccoon a-raccoon commented May 29, 2021

Projects are not People. If certain code fork owners want to support users on a different platform, they will update their fork's README to reflect the correct information. What they will not do is log onto Freenode and harass and harangue everyone to use their preferred fork's preferred communication channels.

Every project has 100 forks. Every project channel has 100 project leaders. All those project leaders collaborate on Freenode, if they want to, and don't need outside people telling them not to.

You are struggling for power, not collaboration. Stop it. Get some help.

You are stuck on this idea that the person who initiated a project gets to decide where people talk about it, even though they released their precious baby under GPL license for all to become their own project leader. Every project has 100 autonomous project leaders.

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@tdfischer tdfischer commented May 29, 2021

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@a-raccoon a-raccoon commented May 29, 2021

Weird statement to make in light of project leaders who previously were collaborating on freenode and other networks being told by freenode that they can either collaborate on freenode or nowhere else.

It's not a weird statement, you're just intentionally viewing the situation out of its context. It's one thing for project leaders to promote multiple avenues of collaboration and support, and it's quite another for some few project leaders to screech and howl that they will no longer use Freenode. I will use bullet points to illustrate why these are different.

  • One introduces the inclusion of multiple platforms, the other demands the exclusion of the freenode.
  • Telling people to stop using freenode is an aggressive act of bullying and harassment intended to intimidate and "othering" people who do not comply. "You're either with us or against us."
  • The signal to noise ratio is too high. People promoting multiple avenues of support don't repeat themselves more than once every 12 months, instead of screeching about leaving freenode once every 12 minutes.
  • The overt mission is an attempt to try to get everyone to leave freenode so that it collapses, and for Liberia to succeed instead, as if nothing ever happened. A very different mission from simply supporting multiple platforms.

Do these things still sound the same to you?

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@tdfischer tdfischer commented May 29, 2021

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@shentino shentino commented May 29, 2021

Projects are not People. If certain code fork owners want to support users on a different platform, they will update their fork's README to reflect the correct information. What they will not do is log onto Freenode and harass and harangue everyone to use their preferred fork's preferred communication channels.

Every project has 100 forks. Every project channel has 100 project leaders. All those project leaders collaborate on Freenode, if they want to, and don't need outside people telling them not to.

You are struggling for power, not collaboration. Stop it. Get some help.

You are stuck on this idea that the person who initiated a project gets to decide where people talk about it, even though they released their precious baby under GPL license for all to become their own project leader. Every project has 100 autonomous project leaders.

YOU are the one who is struggling for power by second guessing the project's decision to decide how to announce their migration.

README files are one thing. YOU telling THEM how to run their own projects is quite another.

Who the hell do you think you are telling them whether or not they should use a README file? That's their decision. If you don't like it, fork it, but in the meantime using that as an excuse for blatant interference in their presence on freenode is an overreach of power on your part.

You deliberately betrayed the trust of freenode's users.

As far as I can tell the only mistake freenode's ex staff ever made was trusting you to leave them alone in the first place. I will concede that them allowing themselves to depend on assets you owned was indeed their mistake.

You speak of collaboration, yet you yourself do not seem to understand that there is, or at least was, collaboration between freenode's former projects and freenode itself as a hosting network. You are a hypocrite, and you are like the pot calling the kettle black. Your commentary on collaboration is not credible because you yourself violated it by your actions as the supposed leader of freenode.

At any rate, the projects voted with their feet and I trust them to decide for themselves which of you or your competitors best suits them as a host, and right now it seems you have lost that battle, and I think you deserve to lose it because you betrayed the trust of your clients.

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@a-raccoon a-raccoon commented May 30, 2021

At any rate, the projects voted with their feet and I trust them to decide for themselves which of you or your competitors best suits them as a host, and right now it seems you have lost that battle, and I think you deserve to lose it because you betrayed the trust of your clients.

You are mistaken. It was tomaw, the Old Guard, who changed all the WHOIS records and seized control of freenode in a hostile takeover attempt. He has been working at this for years in league with his avant-garde fifth-column of social justice warriors. Carefully selecting and grooming new staff who believes in his unacceptably far-left socialist ideas, and forced-retiring staff who do not view the world in the same way. This takeover attempt was supposed to solidify freenode as Yet-Another-Silicon-Valley-Censored-Platform to the chagrin of everyone else around the world who does not accept and refuses to adopt these philosophies.

Andrew is a based Korean who wants no part of far-left western politics and extremism, and has done well to root out the infestation, inviting back exiled staff and banned projects, and making freenode free again without all the crap.

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@tdfischer tdfischer commented May 30, 2021

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@Technetium1 Technetium1 commented May 30, 2021

@a-raccoon

Freedom of speech is not without freedom from consequence. If you tell evto doeryone to move to a different network, and spam a freenode channel with propaganda, then it only makes sense to punish those spammers. Thems the consequences.

You're speaking under a false premise. Simple discussion of moving platforms from moderators of the community is not spamming. Putting a link to your channel on another platform in the topic is not spamming. The issue at hand has NOTHING to do with spamming. It has to do with hijacking channels that have done nothing wrong other than discuss another network in any capacity. This is censorship in it's purest form. It's obvious we all think spamming is bad, so argue the point at hand rather than your own made-up suppositions.


@shentino

Bottom line, it isn't spam if it's being posted by the project itself for the express purpose of migration.
Calling it spam and deliberately undermining the project's autonomy is a farce AND YOU KNOW IT.

This is an important point that most people seem to be skipping over. Well phrased.

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@tobixen tobixen commented May 30, 2021

Every project has 100 forks. Every project channel has 100 project leaders.

That may be true for some major projects, but I believe most of the activity is in the "long tail". Competition is not always a good thing, most projects don't even have enough activity to support one IRC chat channel.

If some people are aware of the new ownership/management situation of Freenode, are aware that most of the community have moved to another platform, and still wants to use Freenode for their daily communication about a project, then that's a very legitimate reason for keeping the Freenode channel open, I would agree on that.

I do believe that most people sticking to the "old" freenode channel (when the rest of the community has moved to some other platform) do so because they "didn't get the memo". Actively denying people to see this information and keeping them in the dark is not good for the projects, it causes fragmentation and hinders communication.

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@dustinlw1987 dustinlw1987 commented May 30, 2021

Give up, Asshole Lee. Just fucking give up. Nobody likes you, and it is largely proven that you are a liar, corrupt, and a fucking coward.

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@tsar-b0mba tsar-b0mba commented May 30, 2021

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@tsar-b0mba tsar-b0mba commented May 30, 2021

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@zonidjan zonidjan commented May 30, 2021

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@flagrama flagrama commented May 30, 2021

Every project has 100 forks. Every project channel has 100 project leaders.

How many projects actually have 1 project leader for each fork? Most forks are just for doing work on so you can create a Pull Request to share with the upstream. I'm certainly no leader of my forks, I simply use them to be able to share my changes with upstream at a later date.

Forks with new leaders change their names. If they change the project's name, they won't be using the channel with the old name, they'll be using the one with the new name. See: OpenOffice -> LibreOffice, Clementine Music Player -> Strawberry Music Player, MonoDevelop -> DotDevelop, etc.

By the way, it's a matter of respect. Something the new Freenode staff and defenders seem to be lacking in.

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@shentino shentino commented May 30, 2021

Not to mention the ongoing bot-floods of anti-semitic content rasengan is authorizing (or perhaps coordinating) on other IRC networks in an attempt to slander libera. ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 3:44 PM, Technetium @.***> wrote: @Technetium1 commented on this gist. --------------------------------------------------------------- Related articles for anyone reading more into this shitstorm... Do your own research! Do NOT rely on any single opinion or source, also keep in mind 12 other staff members contradict rasengan's claims! - The Freenode resignation FAQ, or: "what the fuck is going on?": https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409 - Freenode IRC staff resign en masse after takeover by Korea’s “crown prince”: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-the-crown-prince-of-korea - Freenode ops take control of 700 channels: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27286628 - Upheaval at freenode: https://lwn.net/Articles/857252/ - Leaving Freenode for a new network: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27207440 - The Freenode Takeover (video for lazy people): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKAIazAJuzQ — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.

Not to mention the ongoing bot-floods of anti-semitic content rasengan is authorizing (or perhaps coordinating) on other IRC networks in an attempt to slander libera. ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 3:44 PM, Technetium @.***> wrote: @Technetium1 commented on this gist. --------------------------------------------------------------- Related articles for anyone reading more into this shitstorm... Do your own research! Do NOT rely on any single opinion or source, also keep in mind 12 other staff members contradict rasengan's claims! - The Freenode resignation FAQ, or: "what the fuck is going on?": https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409 - Freenode IRC staff resign en masse after takeover by Korea’s “crown prince”: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-the-crown-prince-of-korea - Freenode ops take control of 700 channels: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27286628 - Upheaval at freenode: https://lwn.net/Articles/857252/ - Leaving Freenode for a new network: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27207440 - The Freenode Takeover (video for lazy people): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKAIazAJuzQ — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.

A very good point.

At the very least the fact that libera is the one being slandered is a huge coincidence, especially given the timing. It isn't proof but it's definitely suspicious enough to warrant further investigation.

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@tsar-b0mba tsar-b0mba commented May 30, 2021

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@tsar-b0mba tsar-b0mba commented May 30, 2021

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@tsar-b0mba tsar-b0mba commented May 30, 2021

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@tsar-b0mba tsar-b0mba commented May 30, 2021

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@shentino shentino commented May 30, 2021

You are mistaken. It was tomaw, the Old Guard, who changed all the WHOIS records and seized control of freenode in a hostile takeover attempt. He has been working at this for years in league with his avant-garde fifth-column of social justice warriors.

This is what happens when an already-unstable mind gets four years to let his freak flag run wild before crashing back down to reality. I'm not sure that there's a debate any more. Scapegoating tomaw at this point is just a fool's errand.

I would rather have a lunatic than a liar.

As far as values go I'll take integrity over sanity any day.

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@unsurethinker unsurethinker commented May 31, 2021

I collected all the links about the Frenode-Libera.chat split from both sides here:

https://gist.github.com/unsurethinker/f3fb589e6c6fa26095fac56171acdb66

The text below the "Summary" section is my personal understanding. It's probably biased. Please remain sceptical when reading it.

PS: According to those links Andrew started to take over AFTER the Freenode Staff decided to leave. If you have ANY links saying that Andrew was taking over Freenode before April 23 (when libera.chat was registered) please post them in the comments, I'll add them to the list.

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@buzztiaan buzztiaan commented May 31, 2021

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@waltercool waltercool commented May 31, 2021

What a shame reading the comments here. SJW can go and be happy chatting in safe spaces of L&bera if they want.

Most people just want to code and help others with their OpenSource software.

If you guys want to keep becoming every single topic as political and controversial, please just go to Twitter instead. Hateful, cancel culture and cheap defamation are everyday cake there.

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@shentino shentino commented May 31, 2021

Freenode's actions may well be within their own purview, but they are a betrayal of the principles it's now ex clients depend on.

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@a-raccoon a-raccoon commented May 31, 2021

Freenode's actions may well be within their own purview, but they are a betrayal of the principles it's now ex clients depend on.

The "principles" you speak of are the very "principles" that freenode is very very glad to be rid of. aka, SJW rabid bullsht.

Normal software developers don't need your "principles" to do good work. Your "principles" are toxic and divisive. If said ex-clients depends on said "principles" then they need to stop it, get some help. Your "principles" are invalid and unwelcome.

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@shentino shentino commented May 31, 2021

Freenode's actions may well be within their own purview, but they are a betrayal of the principles it's now ex clients depend on.

The "principles" you speak of are the very "principles" that freenode is very very glad to be rid of. aka, SJW rabid bullsht.

Normal software developers don't need your "principles" to do good work. Your "principles" are toxic and divisive. If said ex-clients depends on said "principles" then they need to stop it, get some help. Your "principles" are invalid and unwelcome.

My opinion is that you are a liar and are attempting to deceive everyone, and I'm not the only one reading this that has shared that opinion.

I'm calling you out on it because I think you deserve it, and everyone watching both of us deserves to know about the bullshit you pulled.

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@shentino shentino commented May 31, 2021

Furthermore, your blatantly dismissive attitudes towards their concerns completely justifies them abandoning freenode.

Enjoy your walled garden after the flowers decided to migrate to greener pastures because you threw a cloud of acid rain over it.

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@tsar-b0mba tsar-b0mba commented Jun 1, 2021

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@zonidjan zonidjan commented Jun 1, 2021

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@tobixen tobixen commented Jun 1, 2021

The text below the "Summary" section is my personal understanding. It's probably biased. Please remain sceptical when reading it.

It seems quite biased to me, but still ... particularly the link from prawnsalad was a good read, he appears to be a neutral part in all this. Clearly there is wrongdoings at both sides. Most of the communities I participated in has moved to OFTC, so I've decided to take my channels there as well, that seems to be the best way to flag neutrality in this conflict.

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@Technetium1 Technetium1 commented Jun 1, 2021

Here is a culmination of many projects that have migrated https://github.com/siraben/freenode-exodus

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@unsurethinker unsurethinker commented Jun 1, 2021

It seems quite biased to me,

Sure, I'm a human, I may be wrong. 🙂

but still ... particularly the link from prawnsalad was a good read, he appears to be a neutral part in all this.

Yeah I also trust prawnsalad that both sides did it wrong. I'm just missing the details.

Libera.chat people mostly mentioned incidents that happened in May. But it definitely started before that, either in April, or maybe even in March, when Christel resigned.

It's just I don't have links describing what happened back then.

But if you know any details, please, share!

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@robbyoconnor robbyoconnor commented Jun 1, 2021

image

@unsurethinker joining 8 days ago...nothing fishy here.

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@cmileto cmileto commented Jun 2, 2021

The world would currently be a much better place if freenode and rasengan simply ceased to exist at this point, after all the lying and BS.

rasengan shares DJT's reverse Midas touch it seems. Anything either one touchs turns right to shit.

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@unsurethinker unsurethinker commented Jun 2, 2021

@unsurethinker joining 8 days ago...nothing fishy here.

It obviously is. 🙂 That's why anonymity on the internet is important - it makes people equal. If you know who the author is, you have a sort of "startup bias" towards his posts. You can only be unbiased if you don't know who you're talking to.

I don't want you to trust me. Actually, I hope, you will not trust me. This way there's a higher chance you'll find a mistake in my post.

If you notice that I'm wrong, that I'm missing something, some important link, please post it! I'll change my mind and fix the text. That's exactly what I'm looking for.

I just want to discuss facts. It doesn't matter who says them.

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@shentino shentino commented Jun 2, 2021

Freenode's actions may well be within their own purview, but they are a betrayal of the principles it's now ex clients depend on.

The "principles" you speak of are the very "principles" that freenode is very very glad to be rid of. aka, SJW rabid bullsht.

Normal software developers don't need your "principles" to do good work. Your "principles" are toxic and divisive. If said ex-clients depends on said "principles" then they need to stop it, get some help. Your "principles" are invalid and unwelcome.

Then by the same token Freenode is unwelcome as a host to its ex projects that have fled to greener pastures. Turnabout is fair play.

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@clort81 clort81 commented Jun 8, 2021

I stopped using freenode when it became a woke culture, post-meritocracy movement, elect joe biden, sjw fuckery. You're doing the right thing. The other networks have your back with resources aplenty if you just ask for them.

this is derangement.

You should probably make a move sooner, than later, as word is that freenode staff are spamming users to migrate their IRC client settings over to irc.libera.chat

this is false. the new upstart freenode "staff" and "ownership" are behind the anti-semitic spamming on other irc networks.

every word you emit is a turd

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