Skip to content

Instantly share code, notes, and snippets.

@unclebob
Last active September 14, 2020 14:44
  • Star 0 You must be signed in to star a gist
  • Fork 0 You must be signed in to fork a gist
Star You must be signed in to star a gist
Embed
What would you like to do?
Framework Bound

The first version of this blog was entitled Framework Whipped. I attempted to compare the code that uses a framework to the concubines in a harem. I thought my comments were clever and funny; but many people found them offensive.

I sincerely apologize for that offense, it was not intentional. I broke Don Norman's law:

“If you think something is clever and sophisticated beware-it is probably self-indulgence.”

I will try to avoid mistakes like this in the future. I appreciate the conversation about them, and hope that it can continue constructively.

Let me also say this. My original post had made women the butt of a set of very bad jokes. This had not been my intent. Nor did I realize I had done it. It was pointed out to me later; and I agreed and apologized. I believe that was the right thing to do.

Pointing out that you are being made the butt of a set of bad jokes is an honorable thing to do. There's nothing wrong with standing up and saying "No I don't want to be treated that way."

I have 50,000 followers to my Twitter feed. If I inadvertently make a bad joke, and then don't correct it, others might decide to follow suit. I don't want that.

So to those of you who think I caved under some kind of pressure, you're wrong. I revised the blog because I was wrong.

@graffic
Copy link

graffic commented May 11, 2014

Let me quote Christine Stockton

Being offended does not make you right

Feeling offended is an emotion, not an argument. Using it as an argument is a logical fallacy (Appeal to emotion). This doesn't mean being offended is irrelevant, but it’s the catalyst for the argument, not the argument itself.

@tjg
Copy link

tjg commented May 11, 2014

Hey overzealous defenders! Have you never cracked a Scottish joke? (Don't even try lying to me -- I know you have.)

Presumably this man couldn't mention jokes at the expense of Blacks because his intentions concerning "sexism, racism, or any other social and political unfairness and injustice" would be even more obvious.

As for his personal attacks and gaslighting, his target doesn't come from some "corner of the 'Net", but is directly affected by her own company's blog being a platform for "Uncle Bob's" disturbing rants. Blatantly unprofessional. If programming one day evolves past the 1950's, future programmers will ridicule such attitudes.

@telent
Copy link

telent commented May 11, 2014

Feeling offended is an emotion, not an argument.

Which is why I prefer to talk about "marginalisation" rather than "offense". The problem is not when you upset people with your comments, the problem is when your comments are likely to contribute to reinforcing negative behaviour (disparagement, bullying, exclusion, assault, whatever) towards less-advantaged or minority subgroups. That is objective and can even (in principle, at least, if not in practice) be measured.

Someone smarter than me wrote about this in more detail and greater clarity recently, but I'm damned if I can find the link now

@ericgj
Copy link

ericgj commented May 12, 2014

I agree with Meagan, glad you rewrote and made an apology but it really is a typical non-apology to say "many people found them offensive". There's nothing in what you wrote that indicates that you recognize sexism as a problem in itself.

If you do feel you were in the wrong, but have trouble in general recognizing sexism in what you write, can I suggest having a woman colleague (perhaps an administrative assistant!) read your articles first before you publish them?

It's a real shame, since the points you're making about autonomy from frameworks deserve to be heard and debated, but now they will have this episode overshadowing them.

@acdcjunior
Copy link

acdcjunior commented May 12, 2014

😖

@Marlena
Copy link

Marlena commented May 12, 2014

Meagan is right that your apology reads as a non-apology.

There is a difference between making the moves and making a heartfelt apology. This apology reads very clearly as making the moves, and I get a very strong whiff of, "I really hope this makes those angry women go away."

If this is something you actually care about changing (who knows, maybe you really only care about making the moves. In that case, have fun with that.) I suggest you read and learn more about diversity issues beyond a blog post or two and that you consider bringing in and paying a consultant, perhaps someone from Ada Initiative, to give you diversity training.

Here is a post that will give you a place to start, but as I said, reading this is like version 0.5 in diversity training.

@antonioribeiro
Copy link

Acid Carbonic, I fully agree and support your words, but unfortunately they didn't solve Uncle Bob's problem, they just throw him into a different fire, because, now, everywhere in the world, many groups of people are condemning him for criticising the practice of maintaining harems.

THIS
IS
PATHETIC

We cannot make fun, criticise, mock or even, sometimes, just talk about anything related to human beings anymore, because every single person in the planet is part of many different groups and talking about groups is forbidden. The strange part is that you can make a joke about anything, but you have to tell people, in advance, that what you're about to say is a joke, so they switch to the joke mode and their feelings are not (publicly) hurt, if, by any chance, they are part of that one the teller is making fun of. Yeah, a very simple binary condition can take you to hell or heaven. But there is a corollary to that rule: if you are part of that particular group yourself, you can make fun of them without warning. So, a white jew can make fun of jews, but not black people, as women can be critic about other women but probably not gay women and specially not harem's women, because, probably, they would be talking about a milenar culture Wikipedia isn't able to explain much far beyond the usual "it's a bunch of girs sex-slaved by a single rich man".

That's what we are becoming, that's what we are telling our children to become. What is it? In a near future we will not be able to talk about anything else different from the title of our article. We will be fated to be bored for the rest of our lives and those that doesn't like to be 1) criticized for every single thing they write 2) write boring stuff, will just stop writing, because they are happier by just not writing at all.

Thanks for making this a better world.

@dogweather
Copy link

@telent, +1

Good perspective.

@dogweather
Copy link

For all those who are attacking the attackers, please note that Martin has edited this document several times, making it a much better apology, but did not note that he'd made changes. Several of the commenters here were reacting to an earlier, much different version:

https://gist.github.com/unclebob/2abcce451bafeab421f2/revisions

@gurdiga
Copy link

gurdiga commented May 14, 2014

@meaganewaller, I think essentially I agree with @javajosh.

It seems to me that the subject of the article was remote from the issue discussed here, which makes me believe that it was accidental. The fact that many men do express in this way, is partly due to culture of the circles they spent time in, and the bad habits they picked. This is not meant to be an excuse. This is not to say that I as a person am not responsible for my manners or which circle I pick—in the end I am the person that does the choices.

I’ve emphasized “the person” to say that I think this kind of issues are so much better dealt with in person. A face-to-face conversation tends to make this kind of mistakes good memorable lessons, which end up improving the ecosystem. Mixing rage into the conversation, not that it’d be inappropriate, it just tends to make for much less listening, which is regrettable.

Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment