gistfile1.txt

(17:42:34) nw-: unknownbliss: 1. please put runhooks on its own line
(17:42:43) nw-: at least for the ones you added this should be safe
(17:42:47) unknownbliss: nw- ok
(17:43:09) nw-: 2. we need some sort of review process for these additions
(17:43:31) nw-: the ones you added i really cannot say anything about
(17:43:35) unknownbliss: Those were some of the ones suggested
(17:45:09) nw-: (14:13:21) bantu: omfg crypt() is soooo broken - orly
(17:45:30) nw-: does it crypt with rot13? :D
(17:48:25) nw-: the docs on crypt are... amusing
(17:48:32) nw-: user comments rather
(17:49:02) nw-: (17:49:07) nw-: does it crypt with rot13? - this would be an improvement on its behavior in some cases indeed
(17:49:39) nw-: unknownbliss: basically i don't think i am qualified to review ledge addition
(17:49:51) unknownbliss: your the release manager?
(17:50:13) unknownbliss: if thats not qualified what is? :P
(17:50:16) nw-: 1. is the ledge in the right place?
(17:50:17) erikfrerejean left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
(17:50:32) unknownbliss: they are in the only possible place
(17:50:34) nw-: should your copyright ledge be above or below our copyright?
(17:50:57) unknownbliss: Actually after would be better
(17:51:00) nw-: should it be inside of copyright span or outside?
(17:51:00) unknownbliss: fair point
(17:51:05) unknownbliss: inside
(17:51:19) unknownbliss: as its for mods to add to the copyright block
(17:51:21) unknownbliss: for their mods
(17:51:25) unknownbliss: quite a few mods do it there
(17:51:26) erikfrerejean [~erikfrere@phpbb/support/erikfrerejean] entered the room.
(17:51:27) mode (+o erikfrerejean) by ChanServ
(17:51:28) nw-: 2. is the name the best we can come up with?
(17:51:38) nw-: e.g. posting_editor_options
(17:52:21) unknownbliss: well they are the options
(17:52:28) unknownbliss: and the file is posting editor in prosilver
(17:52:32) nw-: point is i have no idea how to answer these questions
(17:53:37) unknownbliss: To be honest, I work in the queue enough and see a lot of MODs. Yes the MOD team would be the first choice but who in the MOD team is going to check every ledge and hook that will be added?
(17:53:43) unknownbliss: And there will probably be quite a lot
(17:54:35) nw-: we should not add ledges without review because: (17:54:34) unknownbliss: Actually after would be better
(17:55:04) nw-: maybe a single topic where people can comment on new additions
(17:55:10) unknownbliss: hm..
(17:55:17) nw-: maybe a forum dedicated to this purpose
(17:55:24) unknownbliss: Or we could look at what mods already do?
(17:55:30) nw-: certainly i would like someone to review all ledges i have added and am going to add
(17:55:53) nw-: that is different
(17:56:15) nw-: (17:59:01) unknownbliss: Or we could look at what mods already do? - this suggests that a ledge is needed
(17:56:26) nw-: conceptually i don't object to any of the ones you added
(17:56:34) nw-: specific implementation however is what should be reviewed
(17:56:44) unknownbliss: All of those I have seen in at least one MOD as I implemented
(17:56:52) unknownbliss: except copyright which should have been after
(17:56:57) unknownbliss: and that was an error on my part
(17:57:19) nw-: well as i don't read or write mods i essentially cannot review these additions
(17:57:28) nw-: properly at least
(17:57:57) unknownbliss: Slightly on-topic did you see my comments about the hook location request forum earlier in here?
(17:57:58) unknownbliss: https://gist.github.com/2ea948c21d93f18bd725
(17:58:21) unknownbliss: I wish gist had a word wrap button
(17:58:39) nw-: well
(17:58:44) nw-: it's kind of the same issue
(17:58:50) nw-: who is going to review the additions?
(17:59:13) nw-: are we going to add anything anyone requests?
(17:59:31) unknownbliss: Well, we need to support things for everyone's extensions
(17:59:38) unknownbliss: so anything with a valid reason yes
(17:59:59) nw-: i will make a topic on area51 about this
(18:00:15) unknownbliss: and I'm willing to help review them if you want? I'm a MOD author and a JMV so I've got quite a bit of MOD experience plus the obvious involvment with hooks & ledges?
(18:00:39) nw-: the rule we have is changes should be reviewed by someone other than their author
(18:01:04) nw-: so you can't rubber-stamp your own ledges :p
(18:01:21) nw-: but for others I am certainly open to this idea
(18:01:26) unknownbliss: I didn't suggest them and suggest their placements (except the posting editor one)
(18:01:46) unknownbliss: I added them as they had been suggested on A51 already with no objections
(18:02:06) nw-: but then there's the before/after thing
(18:02:21) unknownbliss: hm...
(18:02:24) unknownbliss: fair point I guess
(18:02:32) nw-: review catches all sorts of errors, from fundamental misunderstandings to typos
(18:02:48) unknownbliss: so really you need two people with heavy MOD  experience to review ledges?
(18:03:09) unknownbliss: like how you and bantu generally merge each other's patches?
(18:03:16) nw-: this is why if i make a pull request for a patch submitted by a contributor i can't merge it
(18:03:34) nw-: while doing that i might make what i consider a trivial change that actually breaks something
(18:04:07) unknownbliss: fair enough I guess
(18:04:18) nw-: (18:06:25) unknownbliss: so really you need two people with heavy MOD  experience to review ledges?  - this would be up for discussion in that area51 topic i will manufacture
(18:04:26) unknownbliss: ok
(18:04:55) nw-: (18:06:46) unknownbliss: like how you and bantu generally merge each other's patches? - interesting that you would say this
(18:05:26) unknownbliss: what do you mean?
(18:05:39) unknownbliss: s/what do you mean/why
(18:06:50) nw-: it's hard for me to pinpoint exactly but that is an interesting sentiment
(18:07:19) unknownbliss: ok...
(18:07:38) nw-: i guess we do don't we
(18:08:33) unknownbliss: I know all developers can merge but normally its you two and you normally do each others or do PRs for your relevant branches.
(18:08:43) unknownbliss: from what I can see
(18:10:52) nw-: i just realized i misread something
(18:10:59) nw-: (18:06:25) unknownbliss: so really you need two people with heavy MOD  experience to review ledges?
(18:11:09) nw-: are you saying it would be hard to get two such people?
(18:11:17) unknownbliss: nope
(18:11:36) unknownbliss: But people that would want to do it is another matter
(18:11:44) nw-: that's what i meant
(18:11:52) unknownbliss: A lot of mod authors don't seem to do much core development. :(
(18:12:37) nw-: the reasoning behind review is to keep the frequency of ledge editing/removal as low as possible
(18:12:42) unknownbliss: As I said, I'd be willing to help and maybe another Jr?
(18:13:07) nw-: the core doesn't really care what the ledge is called or where it is
(18:13:34) nw-: the issue becomes if another mod wants something similar but can't do it because the ledge is not quite right
(18:13:47) nw-: then we either have to pile ledges one on top of another or change existing ones
(18:13:52) nw-: change == break extensions
(18:14:01) unknownbliss: Fair point
(18:14:45) unknownbliss: That probably won't happen with template hooks as its not much of an issue having two next to each other
(18:14:50) nw-: if the mod community overall does not want to review ledges they'll have to live with breaking changes
(18:14:52) unknownbliss: the issue would be with core hooks
(18:15:54) unknownbliss: I know someone else that might be interested? Elias?
(18:16:34) unknownbliss: a new jr, lots of free time.
(18:17:14) nw-: the name does not associate for me
(18:17:28) nw-: and i really need to get some other stuff done at the moment
(18:17:29) unknownbliss: afaik he hasn't been involved in core development
(18:19:40) unknownbliss: ok