Drupal 8 HTML5 Initiative Meeting #2

gistfile1.weechatlog

[2011-06-14 15::59:13] davereid: wait, who has birthdays?
[2011-06-14 15::59:38] jacine: davereid: timplunkett, rupl, and me (tomorrow) :)
[2011-06-14 15::59:39] rupl: davereid: holla
[2011-06-14 15::59:41] » jmburnz joined the chat room.
[2011-06-14 15::59:43] » pinkonomy left the chat room.
[2011-06-14 15::59:47] jmburnz: .
[2011-06-14 15::59:48] davereid: woo-hoo!
[2011-06-14 15::59:48] Druplicon: dances a jig
[2011-06-14 15::59:56] jacine: hehe ;)
[2011-06-14 15::59:58] davereid: happy birthday all
[2011-06-14 16::00:01] jacine: thanks!
[2011-06-14 16::00:07] » iflista joined the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::00:07] » jshamley left the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::00:10] rupl: thank you!
[2011-06-14 16::00:24] » betz left the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::00:29] jmburnz: looks like I missed something...
[2011-06-14 16::00:41] » pinkonomy joined the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::00:44] mortendk: jacine and its what for you 19 ;) ?
[2011-06-14 16::00:48] jacine: Okay, so PiratePad is on the fritz today, so I posted the agenda (which is very loose today) 
[2011-06-14 16::00:48] jacine: in google docs: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aERO1h_rWA2rlj2s0iEbERvsF4oTIrJ2FopfkMeKR8U/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=CNLl3poC
[2011-06-14 16::00:53] jacine: 1979
[2011-06-14 16::00:55] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1979 => The art of logging in when the login box is disabled => 24 comments, 3 IRC mentions
[2011-06-14 16::00:59] davereid: yay no piratepad
[2011-06-14 16::01:11] mfer: yar!
[2011-06-14 16::01:12] jacine: jmburnz: birthdays... timplunkett, rupl, and me (tomorrow)
[2011-06-14 16::01:23] jmburnz: ah nice, congrats you old farts
[2011-06-14 16::01:33] rupl: ha
[2011-06-14 16::01:36] jacine: haha, thanks ;)
[2011-06-14 16::01:51] jmburnz: except I am older... and slower
[2011-06-14 16::01:52] rupl: I'm not an old fart yet like mortendk
[2011-06-14 16::02:04] Crell: 's farts are not old.
[2011-06-14 16::02:15] jacine: LOL
[2011-06-14 16::02:36] mortendk: rupl: i can tell you war stories all night about ie3 & 4 and how we lost the war and came back in 2004 ;)
[2011-06-14 16::02:53] jacine: Ok, well like I said the agenda is pretty loose today.  I've been working on the roadmap documents and have started to post here: http://drupal.org/node/1089770
[2011-06-14 16::02:54] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1089770 => HTML5 Initiative Roadmap => 0 comments, 2 IRC mentions
[2011-06-14 16::02:56] mortendk: makes note to entertain rupl for daaays at next drupalcon 
[2011-06-14 16::03:01] rupl: mortendk: I was a young soldier then, but already fighting :p
[2011-06-14 16::03:30] Crell: still has his musket from those olden times.
[2011-06-14 16::03:36] jacine: The major one that is still outstanding is the template issues.  There are only a few issues created for these templates, so we kinda need to get on that.
[2011-06-14 16::03:49] mortendk: So after reading dries blog post i can see that we have to be on the fence for 2 years with this html5 thingie ?
[2011-06-14 16::04:00] jacine: LOL
[2011-06-14 16::04:02] Crell: Fence nothing.
[2011-06-14 16::04:04] jacine: on the fence?
[2011-06-14 16::04:14] Crell: It means we work based on what we predict the market to look like in 2 years.
[2011-06-14 16::04:27] jacine: did you mean on the hook mortendk?
[2011-06-14 16::04:42] mortendk: i mean waiting n waiting n waiting
[2011-06-14 16::04:52] Crell: assumed he was signing on for a 2 year deal as an initiative owner.
[2011-06-14 16::04:58] ericduran: is late to every meeting possible
[2011-06-14 16::05:01] mortendk: so we need to for realz have a side project so the html5 fanboys can rock it hard
[2011-06-14 16::05:12] jacine: I assumed 2 years, but then heard 3!!
[2011-06-14 16::05:33] jacine: mortendk: sure, of course we can have a side project, but we need people working on core.
[2011-06-14 16::05:43] mortendk: have already used 5 years of his life to get drupalistas to understand that ze old way sucked ... so hes probably on for 9 more ;)
[2011-06-14 16::05:56] davereid: mortendk: isn't that what html5_tools + elements is for?
[2011-06-14 16::06:01] bstoppel: Is this page the Form API issues that need to be reviewed, http://drupal.org/node/1183606?
[2011-06-14 16::06:01] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1183606 => Implement Form API support for new HTML5 elements => 0 comments, 5 IRC mentions
[2011-06-14 16::06:19] mortendk: davereid: doh you got a point there ;)
[2011-06-14 16::06:28] jacine: ... and there are going to be lots of HTML5 themes.
[2011-06-14 16::06:30] rupl: Isn't the forward-looking theme the "side-project" that will keep people interested before D8 core is released?
[2011-06-14 16::06:37] ericduran: davereid: thats what I though it was for
[2011-06-14 16::06:50] Crell: Once we have a base set of templates for D8, I see no reason that can't be made into a D7 base theme.
[2011-06-14 16::06:52] jacine: Yes, but we need to do the work in core first!
[2011-06-14 16::06:54] Crell: Or vice versa if the latter already exists.
[2011-06-14 16::06:55] mortendk: alright my head is cleared again
[2011-06-14 16::06:57] Crell: Keep them in parallel.
[2011-06-14 16::06:59] jacine: That's the plan.
[2011-06-14 16::07:11] Crell: At least until I gut the D8 rendering system entirely, but that's still a few months off. :-)
[2011-06-14 16::07:35] mortendk: Crell: i will indeed send you little presents for that ;)
[2011-06-14 16::07:36] jacine: yep.
[2011-06-14 16::07:51] jmburnz: jacine: so you want to make issues for all templates or identify the likely candidates
[2011-06-14 16::08:02] Crell: mortendk: You may be sending exploding ones by the time I'm done, but time will tell.
[2011-06-14 16::08:04] mortendk: i was wondering if theres an idea in splitting some of the work up into smaller groups ?
[2011-06-14 16::08:09] jacine: jmburnz: yes, the ones we definitely want to see changed.
[2011-06-14 16::08:31] Crell: still isn't sure the "template vs. gui" ownership of markup question is resolved.
[2011-06-14 16::08:44] jacine: We need to prioritize/organize them afterward, into sprints.
[2011-06-14 16::08:46] JohnAlbin: Crell: I'll lay out the knives for you when you work on D8 rendering.
[2011-06-14 16::08:53] Crell: :-)
[2011-06-14 16::08:55] davereid: I'll set up the towels
[2011-06-14 16::08:59] ericduran: mortendk: I think we've done a good job at splitting it up in smaller groups, example form api stuff
[2011-06-14 16::09:19] mortendk: cause frankly where i wanna battle out is alot of the css shit
[2011-06-14 16::09:27] jacine: Yes, Form API stuff is awesome right now.
[2011-06-14 16::09:30] » betz joined the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::09:37] davereid: ericduran++
[2011-06-14 16::09:39] mortendk: im gonna someone if d8 is gonna pull a 43121038 number of css files on me
[2011-06-14 16::09:45] davereid: aspilicious++
[2011-06-14 16::09:53] ericduran: davereid++
[2011-06-14 16::09:54] jacine: templates, not so much...
[2011-06-14 16::09:54] ericduran: ;)
[2011-06-14 16::10:08] aspilicious: we can use a math specialist to recheck our method but I think its safe as we copied it from webkit
[2011-06-14 16::10:11] jacine: there's barely been any activity and we need to change that.
[2011-06-14 16::10:27] rupl: oh lawd, that step validation sent me home crying
[2011-06-14 16::10:35] ericduran: lol
[2011-06-14 16::10:49] aspilicious: rupl, hahaha yeah :)
[2011-06-14 16::10:52] mortendk: jacine:  so basically take whats already dont in  the html5base and move that in etc
[2011-06-14 16::11:20] jacine: mortendk: yeah, make issues for each file, and bang it out.
[2011-06-14 16::11:50] jacine: This is what I put together based on the issues that have been created for FAPI stuff: http://drupal.org/node/1183606
[2011-06-14 16::11:51] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1183606 => Implement Form API support for new HTML5 elements => 0 comments, 6 IRC mentions
[2011-06-14 16::12:00] jacine: I want to do something like this for templates as well.
[2011-06-14 16::12:33] mortendk: jacine: +1
[2011-06-14 16::12:35] rupl: agrees
[2011-06-14 16::12:39] jacine: There are only 3 template file issues so far: http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?version[0]=8.x&issue_tags=html5 :(
[2011-06-14 16::13:02] jacine: page, node, html.tpl.php
[2011-06-14 16::13:26] jmburnz: I cam make a list and post it in the gdoc for a start and peeps can pick them off?
[2011-06-14 16::13:36] jacine: sure :)
[2011-06-14 16::13:47] jmburnz: ok, I'll slip away and do that now
[2011-06-14 16::13:50] ericduran: so we need a link for the 3rd bullet point over at http://drupal.org/node/1089770
[2011-06-14 16::13:51] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1089770 => HTML5 Initiative Roadmap => 0 comments, 3 IRC mentions
[2011-06-14 16::14:06] jacine: exactly.
[2011-06-14 16::14:10] ericduran: got it!
[2011-06-14 16::15:04] jacine: I'd encourage everyone to go read what's there, and bring up any issues you see with it.
[2011-06-14 16::15:07] jmburnz: http://drupal.org/node/1077510
[2011-06-14 16::15:08] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1077510 => Convert core templates and theme functions to HTML5 - Meta Issue => Drupal core, theme system, normal, active, 9 comments, 4 IRC mentions
[2011-06-14 16::15:51] jmburnz: refactor that and use it, we have some links there to the existing template issues
[2011-06-14 16::16:01] jacine: yes
[2011-06-14 16::16:59] jacine: There's some work that needs to be done to the g.d.o group... The description of the group should be updated to reflect what's going on better, and I'll need to create a page for the initiative like this one: http://groups.drupal.org/build-systems-change-management/cmi
[2011-06-14 16::17:08] jacine: If anyone wants to help with that, I'd appreciate it. :)
[2011-06-14 16::17:39] ericduran: I'll start with that
[2011-06-14 16::17:47] jacine: Thanks ericduran :D
[2011-06-14 16::18:03] jacine: That's all I really had to talk about today, so let's get into what you guys want to talk about.
[2011-06-14 16::18:11] jacine: Who's first? :P
[2011-06-14 16::18:34] Crell: offers his gui vs. template question for bikeshedding.
[2011-06-14 16::18:41] jacine: LOL ok :)
[2011-06-14 16::18:55] mortendk: Crell link ?
[2011-06-14 16::18:56] davereid: his Crell on top of the head with a bike and a shed
[2011-06-14 16::19:00] davereid: his/hits
[2011-06-14 16::19:02] jacine: I added that to the Roadmap in Phase 2, but it needs to be planned out and written up.
[2011-06-14 16::19:09] Crell: It's in the agenda gdoc.
[2011-06-14 16::19:34] jacine: travist did a good job on the video/audio stuff (writing it up): http://drupal.org/node/1174734
[2011-06-14 16::19:36] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1174734 => Rich media handling with <video> and <audio> => 0 comments, 1 IRC mention
[2011-06-14 16::19:38] Crell: jacine: Your call on scheduling.  I just think it's an important question to consider, because that impacts what we consider our primary target audience.
[2011-06-14 16::19:39] mortendk: Crell: got it
[2011-06-14 16::19:56] EverettZ: Can someone paste the link please for those us us (me) who can't properly use gdocs
[2011-06-14 16::20:00] aspilicious: jacine, yes but we have a problem there
[2011-06-14 16::20:05] Crell: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aERO1h_rWA2rlj2s0iEbERvsF4oTIrJ2FopfkMeKR8U/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=CNLl3poC
[2011-06-14 16::20:08] jacine: Crell: Agreed.  We need some people to step up and take it on.
[2011-06-14 16::20:14] aspilicious: jacine, we need to support flash... in core...
[2011-06-14 16::20:15] mortendk: Crell: well as i see that it all depends on how the whole deploiment process is gonna work
[2011-06-14 16::20:50] aspilicious: for the video/audio stuff if you would like to make it work crossbrowser
[2011-06-14 16::20:54] mortendk: aspilicious: really ? .. ush
[2011-06-14 16::20:56] Crell: Config should end up on disk too, so that's not an issue.
[2011-06-14 16::21:01] jacine: EverettZ: http://drupal.org/node/1089770 (roadmap) http://drupal.org/node/1174734 (audio/video write up)
[2011-06-14 16::21:03] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1089770 => HTML5 Initiative Roadmap => 0 comments, 4 IRC mentions
[2011-06-14 16::21:03] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1174734 => Rich media handling with <video> and <audio> => 0 comments, 2 IRC mentions
[2011-06-14 16::21:41] timplunkett: Crell: whats this template/gui/markup thing?
[2011-06-14 16::22:55] jacine: timplunkett: selecting wrapper markup in the UI :)
[2011-06-14 16::23:18] timplunkett: oh, that magical thing
[2011-06-14 16::23:23] Crell: Right.
[2011-06-14 16::23:26] jacine: Like I've said before, I think the proposal is going to have to be pretty solid. So, I agree it needs to be written up and planned out now.
[2011-06-14 16::23:39] Crell: I don't know myself which we should emphasize, honestly.
[2011-06-14 16::23:52] jacine: I would like to concentrate on coding the easier, no-brainer stuff first, though.
[2011-06-14 16::23:55] Crell: But we need to honestly discuss that question and make a rational decision we can guide later decisions by.
[2011-06-14 16::23:58] aspilicious: mortendk, yes, for ie7 and IE8 certainly and not all the good browsers support all the video types so they will use flash too sometimes
[2011-06-14 16::23:59] » linclark joined the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::24:04] mortendk: Crell: okay so the way that lets say display suite is doint it, is pretty sweet i think - especially for new ppl, so you dont have to walk around a ton of files to figure out how to change x
[2011-06-14 16::24:24] Crell: mortendk: Right, but if you enable changing from div to section to article in the UI then the template file will not let you do so.
[2011-06-14 16::24:29] mortendk: aspilicious:  aaah yeah ... damn well in 2 years we know that ie7 & 8 is dead *famous last words*
[2011-06-14 16::24:45] Crell: And if you then hack the template file to put in the element you want, then the UI is still there but its changes won't have any effect.
[2011-06-14 16::24:45] amateescu: Crell: i vote for a collapsed fieldset or a vertical tab in UI
[2011-06-14 16::24:54] jacine: LOL
[2011-06-14 16::24:55] Crell: amateescu: That's not what I'm talking about at all. :-)
[2011-06-14 16::25:08] aspilicious: mortendk, you know it wont be dead :) ;)
[2011-06-14 16::25:28] mortendk: aspilicious: i know it will hunt me like 5, 5.5 & 6 have done so far ;)
[2011-06-14 16::25:40] jacine: This is a huge issue IMO: "And if you then hack the template file to put in the element you want, then the UI is still there but its changes won't have any effect."
[2011-06-14 16::25:41] amateescu: Crell: isn't it about selecting wrapper markup? i think it should be in UI :)
[2011-06-14 16::25:41] mortendk: Crell: yeah i can see the prob now
[2011-06-14 16::26:01] Crell: amateescu: What the UI looks like is not the point.  Whether it's in the UI or in the template is the question.
[2011-06-14 16::26:16] Crell: I don't have an answer there.  I just want to make sure we're asking the question globally.
[2011-06-14 16::26:26] EverettZ: Crell: What are the pros and cons of either approach?
[2011-06-14 16::26:31] amateescu: oh, okay, then I was a little more explicit about my preference :)
[2011-06-14 16::26:31] rupl: is there any possible way the UI could go check the current theme and alter itself based on what it finds in templates?
[2011-06-14 16::26:36] aspilicious: IE6 is not official dead (aka dries did not say it) but I think we have to make a pact to accidently forget about IE6.
[2011-06-14 16::26:38] aspilicious: Deal?
[2011-06-14 16::26:39] timplunkett: Crell: i would think it'd be similar to how theme_item_list handles it, <$type" . drupal_attributes($attributes) . '>';
[2011-06-14 16::26:45] mortendk: Crell: okay so if we have some kinda way of setting that in the .info file whatever as defaults, then i cant se no problem having it in the ui
[2011-06-14 16::26:58] bstoppel: Should the markup be in the theme templates only? It seems weird and potentially unwieldy from a CSS perspective to have to handle multiple types of markup.
[2011-06-14 16::27:19] mortendk: aspilicious: ooh yeah deal *cuts my finger to make blood pact*
[2011-06-14 16::27:33] aspilicious: lol
[2011-06-14 16::27:36] Crell: timplunkett: So that means that you can only change which element to use from the UI?
[2011-06-14 16::27:42] rupl: bstoppel: unfortunately, one of our most obiovus cases is a block, where it will be appropriate for its outer tag to be <aside>, <section>, <article> etc
[2011-06-14 16::27:53] Crell: A themer cannot just put <article> in a template file and be done with it?
[2011-06-14 16::28:02] timplunkett: Crell: nah, we'll just make the themeres edit a .json.php file :)
[2011-06-14 16::28:11] amateescu: HA
[2011-06-14 16::28:13] Crell: thwaps timplunkett.
[2011-06-14 16::28:16] davereid: lol
[2011-06-14 16::28:29] mortendk: hands over axe to crell
[2011-06-14 16::28:47] mortendk: Crell:  are we only talking wrappers ?
[2011-06-14 16::28:53] timplunkett: Crell: they could, but then they'll remove their ability to use the UI. just like they do when they much with things that are controlled by theme-settings
[2011-06-14 16::28:57] mortendk: node, field, block etc ?
[2011-06-14 16::29:06] bstoppel: Would the wrapper selection be on the block config page?
[2011-06-14 16::29:11] Crell: timplunkett: The complexity of that is going to be huge.
[2011-06-14 16::29:17] Crell: Think of how many places that could impact.
[2011-06-14 16::29:20] timplunkett: bstoppel: where it is going to be is not the question, i think
[2011-06-14 16::29:25] jacine: cringes.
[2011-06-14 16::29:36] Crell: Views, view rows, view styles, view elements, Fields, blocks... and that's just the first list off the top of my head.
[2011-06-14 16::29:39] timplunkett: Crell: which is why i didnt think it was worth getting into today :)
[2011-06-14 16::29:55] Crell: Could be. :-)  As I said, I defer to jacine on the right way to tackle that question.
[2011-06-14 16::29:59] mortendk: Crell: well a couple of starter themes are cleaning up the wrappers in blocks to be configurable with the preprocess functions ;)
[2011-06-14 16::30:13] Crell: I just want to ensure that it is tackled head on and deliberately rather than being kinda mishmoshed in different places depending on who happened to write which patch.
[2011-06-14 16::30:18] jacine: I want to see a plan written up, and people officially taking point on it.
[2011-06-14 16::30:19] timplunkett: Crell: because we're either going to build something that is used everywhere, or its going to be one-offs, and people will wonder why it only works for some things
[2011-06-14 16::30:22] timplunkett: yes
[2011-06-14 16::30:36] timplunkett: i volunteered to do that, and am still working on it
[2011-06-14 16::30:38] amateescu: timplunkett: if a themer does that, then he's already overriding core's templates/themes, so he should already know what he's doing :)
[2011-06-14 16::30:42] Crell: I'm not personally invested in either answer.
[2011-06-14 16::30:43] mortendk: Crell: you can put me on the ui team ;)
[2011-06-14 16::30:43] iflista: aspilicious: i think that "good evil" browser can be left in peace :)
[2011-06-14 16::30:52] jacine: timplunkett: is it just you?  
[2011-06-14 16::31:37] » EverettZ left the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::32:03] timplunkett: jacine: for a first draft, yeah. not after that
[2011-06-14 16::32:13] amateescu: timplunkett: we can just throw a message in there that the setting has no effect on overriden x.tpl.php or theme_x()
[2011-06-14 16::32:20] jacine: Ok, well when that document is drafted, we can post to g.d.o. and get feedback, right?
[2011-06-14 16::32:26] timplunkett: jacine: yes
[2011-06-14 16::32:27] » MediaDoneRight joined the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::32:35] jacine: great :) I think that is a good start.
[2011-06-14 16::32:49] timplunkett: jacine: i dont have any desire to work on it alone, it wont work :)
[2011-06-14 16::32:54] jacine: timplunkett: hehe ;)
[2011-06-14 16::32:56] Crell: Bug is planted in the right ears then.
[2011-06-14 16::32:59] mortendk: Crell: we already have the ui selecting a ton of markup elements - it would make it "easy" for newbees to change the small crap
[2011-06-14 16::33:17] Crell: I just want to see some stance actually taken and defended.  Probably worth polling other non-Drupal designers for input, too.
[2011-06-14 16::33:19] mortendk: and those that wanna rwrite everything can just go ahead and hardwire tpls
[2011-06-14 16::33:34] amateescu: mortendk: exactly my point :)
[2011-06-14 16::33:37] mortendk: Crell:  consider me armed
[2011-06-14 16::33:37] timplunkett: mortendk: yeah, that's along my current thoughts
[2011-06-14 16::33:45] Crell: mortendk: That means people like you would see UI elements that no longer do anything, but say they do.
[2011-06-14 16::34:01] jacine: Yeah, and I really think it would be good to involve Bojhan and yoroy as early as possible.
[2011-06-14 16::34:05] Crell: If we want to go with that approach I do not object; I just want to see that made an actual policy decision.
[2011-06-14 16::34:13] mortendk: Crell: actually more if i dont wanna rewrite every godadmn thing i can just change the crap in the ui
[2011-06-14 16::34:19] timplunkett: jacine: yeah, i pinged bojhan the other day, but then i got busy
[2011-06-14 16::34:19] Crell: jacine: I was thinking more reaching out to Mark Boulton, Jeremy Keith, and so on.
[2011-06-14 16::34:27] rupl: Crell: could we not check for little snippets of relevant code and throw a warning or remove UI entirely when overridden tpls are found?
[2011-06-14 16::34:27] mortendk: but if i really wanna go markup nuts - then i can trash my theme as i wanna do
[2011-06-14 16::34:35] timplunkett: Crell: they're on my list
[2011-06-14 16::34:41] mortendk: mark isnt markup expert just to make that clear *coughs*
[2011-06-14 16::34:43] Crell: rupl: I don't know.  That could get really complicated fast.
[2011-06-14 16::34:44] amateescu: Crell: see my message to tim above, we just tell them WHEN those elements are taken into account
[2011-06-14 16::34:57] Crell: timplunkett: Great!
[2011-06-14 16::35:06] rupl: Crell: your vomment about Views et al before just fully sunk in...
[2011-06-14 16::35:14] rupl: *comment
[2011-06-14 16::35:15] mortendk: timplunkett:  you making list ?
[2011-06-14 16::35:19] mortendk: vommit ?
[2011-06-14 16::35:20] jacine: I just hope that we can work on the other stuff in the meantime.
[2011-06-14 16::35:27] jacine: There is a hell of a lot to do.
[2011-06-14 16::35:27] Crell: 's comment was not vommit, thank you very much...
[2011-06-14 16::35:38] mortendk: ;)
[2011-06-14 16::35:41] timplunkett: mortendk: list of outside people to solicit for opinions
[2011-06-14 16::35:44] » linclark left the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::36:02] jmburnz: ok I made a list of tpls to push up as issues, peeps can add more, I went through all the core templates and picked these out as strong candidates
[2011-06-14 16::36:06] mortendk: jacine:  yup the ui vs. tpl is maybe at this point more a filosophical discussion
[2011-06-14 16::36:12] Crell: I think Jen Simmons had a list of outsiders she's talked to or has contacts with.
[2011-06-14 16::36:22] timplunkett: Crell: yep
[2011-06-14 16::36:27] jacine: yeah, I don't want to spend a shit load of time on it, until there is buy in from the community personally.
[2011-06-14 16::36:44] Crell: Yeah, it won't get decided here and now.
[2011-06-14 16::36:52] » jerryitt joined the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::36:58] mortendk: btw talking bout outsiders but frontend centric Am i the only one thats going to fronteers in amsterdam in 3 months ?
[2011-06-14 16::37:01] » pifantastic left the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::37:08] » pifantastic joined the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::37:18] jmburnz: I'm gonna try and make it also morten
[2011-06-14 16::37:23] jacine: me too.
[2011-06-14 16::37:24] mortendk: Crell: hit me up anytime if you wanna dicuss it
[2011-06-14 16::37:44] » betz left the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::37:46] Crell: won't be in the EU this year aside from DC London, most likely.
[2011-06-14 16::37:50] Crell: hits mortendk.
[2011-06-14 16::37:51] mortendk: is planning to add a designcamp in 2012 the weekend after fronteers  just saying
[2011-06-14 16::37:55] Crell: Discuss which? :-)
[2011-06-14 16::37:58] mortendk: Crell: uuuh baby
[2011-06-14 16::38:15] mortendk: Crell: ui vs hardcoding yadi yadi
[2011-06-14 16::38:21] jacine: jmburnz: thanks for that list :)  Looks decent.
[2011-06-14 16::38:22] Crell: ah
[2011-06-14 16::38:51] mortendk: can we while were making the blood oath on not talking about the unmentionable ie6 ever again
[2011-06-14 16::38:51] aspilicious: would love to say in the UI ==> go left freaking images, go right title!
[2011-06-14 16::38:57] Crell: As I said, I don't know that I have a strong preference.  In fact, I don't think my preference is even all that important compared to the preference of the design community.
[2011-06-14 16::39:00] jmburnz: if people can just del them as they add
[2011-06-14 16::39:12] Crell: I just want Drupal as a whole to have a preference it can stick by and work to ameliorate the trade-offs.
[2011-06-14 16::39:14] jerryitt: sorry im late all
[2011-06-14 16::39:16] mortendk: also take a quick tour tour towards the css crap
[2011-06-14 16::39:19] » betz joined the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::39:37] Crell: Now to be fair, for placement I'm very much looking at UI centric for D8 with WSCCI phase 4.
[2011-06-14 16::39:54] Crell: So that may indicate we should be looking at all-UI as the base approach.  I don't know.
[2011-06-14 16::39:58] jmburnz: * go phase 4!
[2011-06-14 16::40:00] jacine: :D
[2011-06-14 16::40:05] Crell: And I should probably stop talking now and let jacine move on to another topic. :-)
[2011-06-14 16::40:09] Crell: shuts up.
[2011-06-14 16::40:12] jacine: No, it's fine.
[2011-06-14 16::40:47] jacine: I think it's fine to talk about this stuff now.
[2011-06-14 16::41:01] jacine: I don't have anymore discussion topics anyway :)
[2011-06-14 16::41:39] jacine: I think we just need everyone in here paying attention in the issue queue and reviewing patches, and giving feedback where needed.
[2011-06-14 16::41:45] davereid: Help review issues!
[2011-06-14 16::41:55] amateescu: did his small part but needs some help with these #fails: http://qa.drupal.org/pifr/test/147109
[2011-06-14 16::42:29] rupl: amateescu: SimpleTest is still running
[2011-06-14 16::42:29] amateescu: `cause i can't reproduce them locally
[2011-06-14 16::42:43] » pinkonomy left the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::42:52] rupl: on my local machine, that is
[2011-06-14 16::43:28] jacine: Would be good to get some help with this: http://drupal.org/node/865536
[2011-06-14 16::43:31] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/865536 => drupal_add_js() is missing the 'browsers' option => Drupal core, javascript, major, needs work, 21 comments, 4 IRC mentions
[2011-06-14 16::43:38] rupl: If the fails persist, I am not sure how to solve TranslationTestCase.  The issues I found while searching were mostly related to building those SimpleTests
[2011-06-14 16::43:50] jacine: It's blocking http://drupal.org/node/1077878
[2011-06-14 16::43:52] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1077878 => Add HTML5shiv to core => Drupal core, javascript, normal, postponed, 93 comments, 4 IRC mentions
[2011-06-14 16::45:06] mortendk: wtf http://drupal.org/node/1077878 ended up with 93 comments  jeeezzz
[2011-06-14 16::45:09] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1077878 => Add HTML5shiv to core => Drupal core, javascript, normal, postponed, 93 comments, 5 IRC mentions
[2011-06-14 16::46:26] » travist left the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::46:32] rupl: amateescu: ok, tests just finished.. I still get 9 fails, all errors read pretty much identical to "[English] Language switch item found for Español language in the node page area."
[2011-06-14 16::46:37] jacine: Also, in general if anyone has a problem with how things have been going so far, please bring it up on d.g.o/html5.
[2011-06-14 16::46:45] ericduran: jacine: http://groups.drupal.org/html5/drupal-8
[2011-06-14 16::46:47] amateescu: rupl: just like the testbot :(
[2011-06-14 16::46:52] ericduran: I'm adding the other blocks now
[2011-06-14 16::46:55] rupl: amateescu: yep
[2011-06-14 16::47:00] jacine: ericduran: YES!!! You rock :)
[2011-06-14 16::47:03] ericduran: also feel free to edit the initiative part.
[2011-06-14 16::47:13] jacine: thank you :)
[2011-06-14 16::47:29] ericduran: adds the other blocks now
[2011-06-14 16::48:04] mortendk: could we kill the jobpostings ? http://groups.drupal.org/node/138174
[2011-06-14 16::48:05] Druplicon: http://groups.drupal.org/node/138174 => Quick gig for HTML5 developer => 0 comments, 2 IRC mentions
[2011-06-14 16::48:54] ericduran: I can't stop that
[2011-06-14 16::49:05] ericduran: but we could not display them anywhere
[2011-06-14 16::49:20] mortendk: ericduran:  damn cause that kinda killed the communication in the d4d group
[2011-06-14 16::49:45] ericduran: hmm, I can open a gdo issue and see what they think
[2011-06-14 16::49:49] jacine: Ok, well unless anyone has something else to talk about, we can wrap it up.
[2011-06-14 16::50:25] Crell: needs to reboot his Macincrap to get it to stop sucking on network behavior.
[2011-06-14 16::50:32] Crell: So I'm done either way. :-)
[2011-06-14 16::50:42] jacine: Macincrap LOL
[2011-06-14 16::50:56] mortendk: just wanna remind people in europe that jmburnz  is talkin about the d8di initiative next weekend 
[2011-06-14 16::51:03] jerryitt: jacine: hey i came in a bit late, just wondering if the chat log is going to be posted again?
[2011-06-14 16::51:10] jacine: jerryitt: yep
[2011-06-14 16::51:12] mortendk: + were gonna rock the shit outta berlin ;)
[2011-06-14 16::51:19] jacine: jmburnz++
[2011-06-14 16::51:30] ericduran: will be in boston
[2011-06-14 16::51:42] jacine: woot! :)
[2011-06-14 16::51:45] rupl: If anyone has any insight on TranslationTestCase failure for http://qa.drupal.org/pifr/test/147109 I'd love to understand and fix
[2011-06-14 16::51:52] » Crell left the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::51:55] jmburnz: cheers, I'm on it later tonight
[2011-06-14 16::52:07] mortendk: jmburnz:  later mate
[2011-06-14 16::52:08] jacine: jmburnz: thanks :)
[2011-06-14 16::52:20] iflista: When next Drupal 8 HTML5 Initiative Meeting?
[2011-06-14 16::52:27] mortendk: 2 weeks ?
[2011-06-14 16::52:30] rupl: iflista: every two weeks, same day/time
[2011-06-14 16::52:30] jacine: iflista: 2 weeks from today. same time.
[2011-06-14 16::52:43] iflista: ok. thanks
[2011-06-14 16::53:20] jacine: ok thanks everyone :)
[2011-06-14 16::53:54] rupl: thank YOU
[2011-06-14 16::54:00] jacine: :D
[2011-06-14 16::54:03] amateescu: yay, we have a passing one: http://drupal.org/node/1174640#comment-4602004 :)
[2011-06-14 16::54:08] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1174640 => Add new HTML5 FAPI element: number => Drupal core, forms system, normal, needs review, 31 comments, 3 IRC mentions
[2011-06-14 16::54:10] davereid: jerryitt: jacine: I can post the IRC log
[2011-06-14 16::54:25] jacine: davereid: thank you :D
[2011-06-14 16::54:37] jerryitt: davereid: cool :)
[2011-06-14 16::55:07] aspilicious: amateescu, lol you shoudl review the range patch
[2011-06-14 16::55:33] ericduran: amateescu: I removed the field api stuff on purpose
[2011-06-14 16::55:37] aspilicious: amateescu, because they share code and I fixed the range patch
[2011-06-14 16::56:01] ericduran: amateescu: also we're only doing form api, not field api changes
[2011-06-14 16::56:15] amateescu: yup, i know :)
[2011-06-14 16::56:47] ericduran: amateescu: the number_field_instance_settings_form changes the actual field api settings :/
[2011-06-14 16::57:18] ericduran: if anything that should stay as is and we should add new widgets
[2011-06-14 16::57:25] ericduran: like we do in html5_toosl
[2011-06-14 16::57:50] ericduran: so that way no one is forced to use the number field if they don't want too
[2011-06-14 16::58:01] timplunkett: ericduran: what about removing _element_validate_number, then that would be left for another patch?
[2011-06-14 16::58:51] ericduran: timplunkett: that can be change without changing the actual form api element type
[2011-06-14 16::59:32] » cosmicdreams joined the chat room.
[2011-06-14 16::59:39] cosmicdreams: hello all
[2011-06-14 16::59:49] rupl: cosmicdreams: hi