#clojure

<jartur> Well, they are usable in principle
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<tomoj> people actually do use them
<jartur> People actually would do anything not to use emacs  [22:44]
<tomoj> maybe "usable" means something other than what I'm thinking
<TheBusby> the survey results indicate that most people seem to use emacs
<TheBusby> emacs isn't exactly a high-bar when considering all the things you
           need to learn to use Clojure proficiently  [22:45]
<tomoj> I suspect it's less skewed that the survey results indicate, but have
        no proof
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<jartur> I've tried plugins for NetBeans and Idea and just couldn't use them.
<jartur> I went to emacs though I never have liked it
<TheBusby> my experience lends me to believe that many, if not most, of Java
           dev's likely shouldn't be using clojure
<jartur> TheBusby: Why so?  [22:46]
<TheBusby> Java was designed to try and be idiot proof, and hence it attracted
           a lot of idiots in certain organizations
<jartur> TheBusby: Because we are idiots? =)
<lancepantz> because they are too reliant on ide's apparently :)
<jartur> IDEs for Java are necessity  [22:47]
<TheBusby> I would say they are the ones most vocal about things like IDEs
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<jartur> Because Java is atrocious
<TheBusby> they care less about complexity and performance, and more about the
           GUI
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<jartur> I code on Java daily
<jartur> And I hate it
<Raynes> The last message I got was "<lancepantz> the rest are just DE's",
         could somebody gist what I missed pretty please? <3
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<jartur> Raynes: we're talking about how Java devs are idiots  [22:48]