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 what's happening springmeyer?
<springmeyer> TWG! here we go :)
 Hi everyone - if you are here for the Technical working group meeting...
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<springmeyer> here is a basic agenda:
<pgiraud> hello all
<springmeyer> Agenda
 - raise hand if present, state name, and interests (in just a few words)
 - What existing software tools has HOT sponsored or encouraged
 - how can we best/better coordinate software development priorities for HOTOSM needs?
 - What gaps exist in the current tools?
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<springmeyer> so, I will start by introducing myself
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<springmeyer> I'm Dane Springmeyer, on the board of hotosm, and excited to help coordinate and maximize the power of HOT through better software
 others here for the meeting please introduce yourself
<pgiraud> I'm Pierre GIRAUD, hotosm member, mainly involved in the development of the Tasking Manager
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<harry-wood> I'm Harry Wood, also on the board of hotosm.  Don't get much time to develop stuff, but if I did I'd make HOT stuff
<IknowJoseph> hello, Joseph Reeves, interested in using HOT software, will largely be lurking as I'm supposed to at work.
<harry-wood> Yeah ditto that.  Supposed to be at work
<springmeyer> lurking is just fine, jump in any time :)
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<springmeyer> IknowJoseph: and harry-wood - for future meetings would later in the day be better?
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<harry-wood> Well for europeans maybe
<IknowJoseph> I'm not a developer, so I'd probably just lurk regardless of the time :)
* pgiraud is european too
<springmeyer> okay, when I send out meeting notes from this meeting I will propose a slightly later time
* geohacker is not.
<springmeyer> I'm west coast US, so this is pretty early for me :)
* Firefishy is African... Living in London town.
<springmeyer> great, for those that just joined I will re-state agenda:
 springmeyer: - raise hand if present, state name, and interests (in just a few words)
 [07:02am] springmeyer: - What existing software tools has HOT sponsored or encouraged
 [07:02am] springmeyer: - how can we best/better coordinate software development priorities for HOTOSM needs?
 [07:02am] springmeyer: - What gaps exist in the current tools
* geohacker is in India. IST is Indian Stretchable Time.
<springmeyer> geohacker: :) nice
 geohacker: what are your main interests related to software and hot?
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<geohacker> springmeyer: I'm an independent consultant. and I help people to use maps.
<springmeyer> geohacker: great, and you are Sajjad Anwar ?
<geohacker> I work with NGOs in India to help them build geo infrastructure.
 springmeyer: yes! :)
<pierzen> Pierre Béland, team member and interested in various aspect of HotOsm. EST Time schedule. Time is less a problem for me.
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<harry-wood> perzen==Pierre Beland   !=the other pierre ….must try to remember that
<jgc> Jean-Guilhem Cailton, hotosm member, lurking while tracing in Tierralta
<pgiraud> I'm still interested in working on the Tasking Manager, my will is to make it as easy to use as possible
<springmeyer> pgiraud: great segway :)
<springmeyer> great, so intros are wrapping up, now I'll move to recapping existing tools that HOT members are actively working on
<geohacker> cool
<springmeyer> 1) pgiraud's Tasking Manager - http://tasks.hotosm.org | https://github.com/pgiraud/OSMTM
<springmeyer> many of us know and already love this tool, its in active use for HOT
<springmeyer> from a top level I'm excited to see it has a healthy issue queue: https://github.com/pgiraud/OSMTM/issues
<springmeyer> it is also linked off the new web site for HOT: http://hot.openstreetmap.org/get-involved
<pgiraud> what does healthy mean?
<geohacker> neat
<springmeyer> but we plan to have a "tools" page that will feature it and the others I'm about to cover
 so that new people that are interested in HOT will be able to quickly find code to contribute to
<springmeyer> pgiraud: active, and long :)
<harry-wood> hehe. I was wondering what healthy meant :-)
<springmeyer> and with as many closed tasks as open :)
<geohacker> +1 to the tools page.
<pgiraud> I recently got pull requests from a potential contributor
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<springmeyer> geohacker: thx, this is on my plate for doing this week and I will sent out to the mailing list for review
<springmeyer> pgiraud: nice. can you summarize briefly what the big next steps are for the tool?
<pgiraud> no real road map, but many ideas that are still in my head
<springmeyer> okay, good enough. I'll move on then to cover things quickly...
<pgiraud> I tried to create a "draw your own area" feature to allow users to draw polygons
<geohacker> pgiraud: I can write Python. Have used web.py and now building stuff using Flask.
<springmeyer> 2) SDS-Server - https://github.com/hotosm/sds-server - a way to separately store private data tied to osm_id (works with JOSM plugin)
<geohacker> i'll touch base the code and see what I can do :)
<springmeyer> This tool was written by Geofabrik and used for the HOT indonesia project
 since it deals with private data there is not a public instance, but the code is open
<pgiraud> what does SDS mean ?
<geohacker> okay.
<springmeyer> "Separate DataStore"
 name comes from the specific JOSM plugin it integrates with
<harry-wood> back in a minute
<springmeyer> harry-wood: k
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<springmeyer> No actionable things on this tool for us as a group that I know of, but good to know it exists...
 3) - Exports tool - https://github.com/hotosm/hot-exports | http://hot-export.geofabrik.de - currently instance is specific to Haiti but has a lot of potential
 also written by the talented guys at geofabrik. it accepts a bbox and pumped out data extracts in a ton of formats
 This tool is very new, I encourage anyone interested to get it running locally
 I also would like to encourage thinking around how it overlaps/complements other export tools - this is obviously a common thing
<geohacker> so you basically create a new job, submit the bounding box. right?
<springmeyer> yes
 It was specifically designed for the mapping needs in haiti where very non-techical users needed frequent extracts
<geohacker> okay.
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<pierzen> SDS Server https://github.com/hotosm/sds-server Description and More information link are not operational.
<springmeyer> pierzen: great, I will look at fixing that, thank you
 Any other questions about those tools?
<geohacker> springmeyer: doesn't the hot-extract work for the whole planet now?
* geohacker tries
<springmeyer> geohacker: I was not aware that it did. the tool certainly could but I think its only populated with haiti data
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<springmeyer> that instance at least
 So, that was my main list I wanted to cover today.
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<springmeyer> Anything I missed?
<pgiraud> maybe it's off topic, but is there any guideline about licenses for the tools?
<springmeyer> pgiraud: great question
<pgiraud> the tasking manager is currently NOT licensed
 Kate already asked me about that
<springmeyer> The hot board discussed this and felt like the next step
 would be to discuss licensing on the mailing list
<pgiraud> that's fine
<springmeyer> to gather peoples thoughts
<pgiraud> I'm open to any proposal
<springmeyer> HOT tools so far have tended to be BSD licenced
 but I think we should discuss as a group a bit
<springmeyer> okay, great pgiraud 
<jgc> pgiraud, seeing that the tasking manager can export task tiles as a shapefile, I was wondering whether it would be possible to also import task boundaries as a shapefile ?
<pgiraud> it should be really easy
<jgc> This could be useful to share checking of, eg, Orbview3 images
 great
<pgiraud> don't hesitate to open an issue on that topic
<springmeyer> pgiraud:  at https://github.com/pgiraud/OSMTM/issues, yes?
<jgc> ok
<springmeyer> thanks jgc 
 so, let's move on to next agenda items
 good starting topics for discussion I felt are:
<geohacker> hmm Tasking Manager looks very interesting.
* geohacker clones.
<springmeyer> - how can we best/better coordinate software development priorities for HOTOSM needs?
 - What gaps exist in the current tools?
 So, basically: how can we work together better and what should be the top priorities?
<geohacker> sorry. I need to step out for a bit. back soon.
<springmeyer> we have 30 minutes to discuss freely here, if you have the time, so share you thoughts and take off when you need to
 geohacker: k, see you later
<geohacker> springmeyer: I'll look up the log and respond.
<springmeyer> okay, good
 So, my feelings are that we need
 a page at http://hot.openstreetmap.org like http://hot.openstreetmap.org/tools
 that lists all the top tools and potential needs
<pgiraud> can we say that using github is a good solution to work on code?
<springmeyer> yes, I think so
 my second thought is to do a better job
 promoting and using this group: and that we get more people 
 er, copy paste error
 this group: https://github.com/hotosm
<pgiraud> I didn't know that this group existed
<springmeyer> right, it was created but not  used much yet
 so it is a possibility to use more
<harry-wood> Is it just a grouping of repos?
<springmeyer> harry-wood: yes
 I can add each of you as members now - what do you think?
* pgiraud agrees
<harry-wood> yep. do it
<pierzen> +1
<harry-wood> I was imagining I might have to do some coding work to show up on the list :-)
 So we should/could add the tasking manager to this?
<pgiraud> I think so
<springmeyer> I would be supportive of that if pgiraud was open
<pgiraud> I am
<springmeyer> okay
<pgiraud> what do I need to do?
<springmeyer> can each of you state your github username?
 (i realize it may be the same as IRC)
<harry-wood> https://github.com/harry-wood
<pgiraud> https://github.com/pgiraud
<pierzen> https://github.com/pierzen
<harry-wood> The thing I don't like about github is… it reveals just how much I talk about stuff and don't do anything :-)
<flavour> https://github.com/flavour awake now
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<pgiraud> harry-wood, talking is better than doing nothing
<springmeyer> hey flavour - nice nic 
<Firefishy> https://github.com/Firefishy
<springmeyer> flavour: great to have you, can you state your name and general interests?
<flavour>  Fran Boon, Sahana Eden lead developer
 Interested in supporting Huamnaitarian Orgs
 With Mapping tools
 & Data
<springmeyer> awesome, thanks
<flavour> Work with IFRC, WFP, Oxfam, etc
<IknowJoseph> flavour: according to github we're in the same town? Oxford?
<flavour> ok :)
 Cool,  let's meet
<IknowJoseph> sounds good!
<flavour> So I integrate OSM into Sahana as much as possible - embed Potlatch, do import/export of our data to .osm format, use OSM Tiles as Baselayer
<springmeyer> okay, thanks team - all usernames added to the github/hotosm group
 so you should recieve an email notice
<flavour> I assume the 'Potlatch on slow links' issue is more the data on live server as opposed to the client download?
<springmeyer> I may still shift around a bit, but the important thing is I have your usernames now
<flavour> We can fix the latter but not the former, obviously
 I had wanted to be able to have a local replica of DB for edits
 But that doesn't seem something that is easy to support in OSM currently
 Although I guss that could eb done by adding to Sahana DB & then exporting as .osm
 Funny hyow things click sometimes ;)
<springmeyer> flavour: I'm not fully following
 we're discussing here the basic question of how can we work together better and what should be the top priorities for HOT re: tools and software
<flavour> Yup
 Well, the editors issue had been one, wasn't it?
 Raised by the training team
 Potlatch easy to use but bad on slow links
 JOSM hard to use but great offline
<harry-wood> yeah I was wondering about this too flavour. Wasn't clear if the issue was data traffic as opposed to the initial client download
<springmeyer> yes, thanks for tying together
<flavour> So I'm not sure iif Sahana can count as a HOTOSM tool
 It certainly has some potential there
 But it's not really its direct focus
<harry-wood> Is sahana quite a big well funded project?
 I have that impression
<flavour> Pretty big although funds are project-tied as-usual
 IFRC are investing a lot at the moment
<springmeyer> flavour: there are tools HOTOSM works on specifically and then a wider ecosystem we want to support
<flavour> We've been workign with Asia Pacific zone but both Americas & Africa have advertised for full-time positions to roll it out
<springmeyer> sahana I would say is definitely one
<flavour> So then IFRC will have 4 ppl globally working fuill-time on rolling it out
 So a pretty big investment from them all in all
 Cool - I see Sahana as beign a big way in which Huamnitarians will access OSM data
<harry-wood> and Sahana deployment (sending people places) projects  etc.  So it's a full-on organisation which HOT needs to mesh with
<flavour> & I'd like them to be able to contribute back more easily too as they have boots on the ground & know what's apepning
<springmeyer> for those who missed the acronym: http://www.ifrc.org/
<flavour> Job Advert for Africa: http://bit.ly/IPQ5b4
 RMS = IFRC's branded version of Sahana
<jgc> springmeyer, sorry, I was not looking: https://github.com/jgc31
<springmeyer> jgc: thx
 so, we have just 5 more minutes until wrapping up
 1) we covered existing tools
 2) discussed coordinating better via github grouo "hotosm"
 3) discussed related tools/projects like sahana
<flavour> How does the GitHub group improve coordination?
<springmeyer> 4) I mentioned I will be creating a tools page at http://hot.openstreetmap.org/ that I will look for review on
<flavour> Tools page will eb a Wiki?
* pgiraud is still wondering how to get OSMTM in the list of repos in the hotosm github's page
<springmeyer> flavour: open question. 
<springmeyer> pgiraud: let's connect on that after the meeting
<pgiraud> ok
<flavour> We need some kind of sctrachpad
 To work out where the gaps are
 & suggest ways of bridging those
<springmeyer> flavour: yes, and maybe a high level issue tracker that indicates big gaps where we see solutions
<flavour> Can we use the GitHub group for that?
<springmeyer> flavour: sounds good to me - are others okay with that?
 the other way to do it would be to use the osm wiki
<flavour> I'm not sure if GitHub groups have trackers
 Seems to be just repos
 I'm fine with the OSM wiki if GitHub doesn't have a non-repo locatiion...or we could create a dummy repo for the coordination?
<springmeyer> yeah, just repo's - so we could create a general repo for cross-cutting issues perhaps
 yeah, exactly ^^
 ideas for names?
<flavour> Same as the group? hotosm
<springmeyer> k, good call
 okay, meeting time is up
 thanks everyone for showing up and discussing broadly. I think this sets us up nicely for future meetings
 my actionable items are:
 1) update hot.openstreetmap.org
 2) create "hotosm" github repo to coordinate on wiki
<springmeyer> 3) work with pgiraud to discuss moving over tasking server to the hotosm github group
<springmeyer> 4) send out TWG meeting notes to the hot mailing list