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2018-02-23 08:23:13	--	Topic for #raspberrypi is "Unofficial RaspberryPi IRC channel but "Blessed" by the Foundation as the ONE channel. | Logs: http://srv.datagutt1.com | Rules: https://goo.gl/h5qPhz"
2018-02-23 08:23:13	--	Topic set by gordonDrogon (~gordon@2001:4d48:ad51:8901::2) on Sat, 24 Dec 2016 15:04:53
2018-02-23 08:23:14	--	Channel #raspberrypi: 586 nicks (2 ops, 0 voices, 584 normals)
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2018-02-23 08:24:25	--	Channel created on Sat, 13 Aug 2011 16:04:23
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2018-02-23 08:27:51	pi_m	hi all
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2018-02-23 08:28:54	pi_m	im trying to compile vlc media player v2.2.8 based on this guide:
2018-02-23 08:28:56	pi_m	https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=195221
2018-02-23 08:29:23	pi_m	but during the make process i got this error:
2018-02-23 08:29:46	pi_m	Makefile:2220: recipe for target 'libqt4_plugin_la-qt4.lo' failed
2018-02-23 08:29:46	pi_m	make[7]: *** [libqt4_plugin_la-qt4.lo] Error 1
2018-02-23 08:29:56	pi_m	has anyone experienced this problem?
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2018-02-23 08:43:52	xtore	Hrmmm so like...what comes after 10 Ghz? https://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/eecs20/sidebars/radio/spectrum.gif
2018-02-23 08:44:09	mlelstv	11 GHz
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2018-02-23 09:15:23	argoneus	hello, as someone who is a complete amateur wondering how to into raspi - what would I need to buy to e.g. have a LED change color depending on the surrounding temperature/lighting?
2018-02-23 09:15:32	argoneus	I assume Id have to buy some extra sensors/cables/convertors...?
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2018-02-23 09:16:16	argoneus	on the HW side that is, SW I understand is just using some special libraries that have an API to the pins on the board so I can just grab the data
2018-02-23 09:16:30	gordonDrogon	argoneus, look online - or just buy the "Enviro Hat" from Pimoroni - it has everything on-board that you need (and more)
2018-02-23 09:16:45	gordonDrogon	and they have software tutorials for it too.
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2018-02-23 09:16:52	argoneus	I looked online and found all sorts of things, for arduino etc. and I have no idea how to figure out what's compatible and what's not
2018-02-23 09:16:56	argoneus	I'll check the enviro hat
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2018-02-23 09:17:21	argoneus	(I'm more of the programmer guy who is ignorant to hardware)
2018-02-23 09:18:30	gordonDrogon	actually the Sense Hat has it all: https://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/raspberry-pi/products/raspberry-pi-sense-hat
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2018-02-23 09:20:23	argoneus	oh, I see
2018-02-23 09:20:31	argoneus	so I can't just buy *any sensor*
2018-02-23 09:20:40	argoneus	needs to be specific for raspi?
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2018-02-23 09:23:28	BurtyB	I wouldn't say *any* but many, but you'd need to check the voltage (pi is 3.3v only on gpio) and protocol (SPI or I2C without clock stretching), then either find code to talk to it or write some
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2018-02-23 09:28:30	argoneus	oh, I see
2018-02-23 09:28:41	argoneus	so just google "raspi compatible light sensor" if I want to to do it the DIY way
2018-02-23 09:28:53	argoneus	I'll look into it thanks!
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2018-02-23 09:33:13	argoneus	and, um, one more thing
2018-02-23 09:33:27	argoneus	if I buy a clean raspi, do I need to connect a mouse/keyboard/display to it at any point?
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2018-02-23 09:33:35	argoneus	from googling I find conflicting answers
2018-02-23 09:33:42	argoneus	one says SSH works in default install, another says it doesn't
2018-02-23 09:33:48	Lartza	argoneus, Not necessarily no
2018-02-23 09:33:56	Lartza	You have to edit the SD card on another computer but that's all
2018-02-23 09:34:00	Lartza	To enable SSH
2018-02-23 09:34:14	argoneus	ah
2018-02-23 09:34:15	Lartza	Then you have to have Avahi working or find out the IP of the RPi some other way
2018-02-23 09:34:24	argoneus	so I pretty much preinstall the raspbian OS on another pc
2018-02-23 09:34:30	argoneus	and preconfigure
2018-02-23 09:34:30	Lartza	No
2018-02-23 09:34:38	Lartza	You just make a file called ssh on the boot partition
2018-02-23 09:34:47	Lartza	And plug it back to the RPi
2018-02-23 09:34:51	argoneus	o
2018-02-23 09:35:10	argoneus	I should buy a sd reader then
2018-02-23 09:35:48	Lartza	Those are very cheap but yeah, also allows you to re-image the SD card :)
2018-02-23 09:36:01	Lartza	In case you want or it corrupts
2018-02-23 09:36:24	argoneus	so if I ever bork the raspi entirely, it's just a matter of re-formatting the SD card?
2018-02-23 09:36:46	argoneus	bork the software that is
2018-02-23 09:37:30	Lartza	Unless the SD card gets totally corrupted, yes
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2018-02-23 10:01:13	argoneus	um
2018-02-23 10:01:20	argoneus	what is that white board with holes all over it called?
2018-02-23 10:01:25	argoneus	to plug modules in I assume
2018-02-23 10:03:57	BurtyB	breadboard?
2018-02-23 10:04:06	argoneus	ah, thanks!
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2018-02-23 10:04:28	 *	Armand hands argoneus a bread knife
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2018-02-23 10:07:59	argoneus	ah I see
2018-02-23 10:08:07	argoneus	it's to experiment with things without soldering
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2018-02-23 10:08:38	AraspPI	hello people, talking to you from a raspberry pi connected to a screen form the 1990s :-) nostalgia  :-)
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2018-02-23 10:10:03	AraspPI	oh i forgot to mention, using raspian minimal command line only hehe
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2018-02-23 10:10:05	AraspPI	amazing
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2018-02-23 10:10:50	Armand	AraspPI: I prefer using IRC on my phone, with a keyboard and mouse connected. ^_^
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2018-02-23 10:11:14	AraspPI	Armand: won't the screen be too small?
2018-02-23 10:11:19	Armand	6"
2018-02-23 10:11:23	AraspPI	mine is like kind of big
2018-02-23 10:11:32	AraspPI	17"
2018-02-23 10:11:46	Armand	Where do you get a 17" phone??
2018-02-23 10:11:48	Armand	lmao
2018-02-23 10:11:55	AraspPI	sorry 19"
2018-02-23 10:12:01	Armand	^_^
2018-02-23 10:12:13	AraspPI	haha no i mean why not connect from a computer?
2018-02-23 10:12:21	Armand	I am right now.
2018-02-23 10:12:31	AraspPI	you said you are from a phone
2018-02-23 10:12:32	Armand	I can't use the phone for that full time.
2018-02-23 10:12:34	AraspPI	confused
2018-02-23 10:12:38	AraspPI	oh ok
2018-02-23 10:12:47	Armand	Yeah, not right now. :P
2018-02-23 10:13:16	argoneus	guh, I kinda want to get a raspi and experiment with it but I'm scared I'd short circuit something by being retarded
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2018-02-23 10:13:51	AraspPI	argoneus: even if you do, it is cheep enough, relative to a laptop or PC
2018-02-23 10:14:08	AraspPI	argoneus: or you can get a case for it
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2018-02-23 10:16:59	AraspPI	argoneus: what do you want to use the RPi for?
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2018-02-23 10:17:13	argoneus	home server and maybe experimenting with some IOT gadgets
2018-02-23 10:17:20	argoneus	like print current room temp to a LCD or such
2018-02-23 10:17:26	AraspPI	argoneus: nice
2018-02-23 10:17:36	argoneus	at least from what I understood it's suitable for that
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2018-02-23 10:18:13	AraspPI	i am using it as a second computer on a screen from the 1990s >;-)
2018-02-23 10:18:18	argoneus	I found a tutorial using a DHT11 temp sensor, but I don't really understand the wiring - http://www.circuitbasics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/How-to-Setup-the-DHT11-on-the-Raspberry-Pi-Four-pin-DHT11-Wiring-Diagram.png
2018-02-23 10:18:27	argoneus	I don't get why the pull up resistor is "behind" the wires
2018-02-23 10:18:46	argoneus	something tells me I need to read 20 books about physics and electronics before using a raspi
2018-02-23 10:19:32	AraspPI	argoneus: i am sure someone here ac answer that, i 1. am not an engineer 2. i am using a command line interface of raspian so no web browser hehe
2018-02-23 10:19:44	AraspPI	but no you don't need to read so many books to understand
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2018-02-23 10:20:25	AraspPI	i used to RPi to build a mini cluster (supercomputer - thought it was not super at all haha) all with no previous knowlege of programming nor engineering
2018-02-23 10:20:30	AraspPI	so many youtube videos
2018-02-23 10:20:34	AraspPI	so many tutorials
2018-02-23 10:20:39	argoneus	the only thing I can do is programming
2018-02-23 10:20:41	AraspPI	learn by doing, trust me it works
2018-02-23 10:20:44	argoneus	but when it comes to physics/engineering
2018-02-23 10:20:46	argoneus	nnnope
2018-02-23 10:22:26	argoneus	the way I understand it is that I connect the + pin to power and - to GND, and then the data pin to one of the GPIO pins
2018-02-23 10:22:30	AraspPI	argoneus: it is not complicated
2018-02-23 10:22:42	argoneus	and then use a library to read the value from the pin
2018-02-23 10:22:45	argoneus	but I don't get what the resistor is doing there
2018-02-23 10:23:00	AraspPI	just go for it, but keep an open mind and be open to learning new things (there is a learning curve you have to aknowlege)
2018-02-23 10:23:23	gordonDrogon	the pull up resistor is "behind" the wires because it looks better on the diagram that way.
2018-02-23 10:23:34	gordonDrogon	it can be anywhere on those 2 wires.
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2018-02-23 10:25:21	argoneus	oh
2018-02-23 10:25:30	argoneus	turns out I don't really understand how electricity works
2018-02-23 10:25:35	argoneus	I thought it just flowed in a circuit
2018-02-23 10:25:41	argoneus	and never got to the resistor
2018-02-23 10:25:42	jmcgnh	argoneus: maybe we need to explain that the holes are connected vertically?
2018-02-23 10:26:18	AraspPI	argoneus: don't be hard on yourself, no one is born with knowlege, we all go through a confusion phase as we learn, just don't give up :-)
2018-02-23 10:26:58	argoneus	vertically as in...
2018-02-23 10:27:08	argoneus	uh
2018-02-23 10:27:59	jmcgnh	argoneus: on the breadboard, there are horizontal bus bars underneath the outer two rows on each side
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2018-02-23 10:28:33	BurtyB	(not in the picture you pasted tho)
2018-02-23 10:28:46	jmcgnh	argoneus: and the array of holes between them consists of little 5-hole bus bars vertically
2018-02-23 10:29:14	jmcgnh	argoneus: but, yes, that mini-breadboard doesn't have power and ground
2018-02-23 10:29:26	argoneus	hmm
2018-02-23 10:29:42	argoneus	so the power goes red -> resistor -> blue -> black?
2018-02-23 10:29:57	argoneus	alternatively black -> blue -> resistor -> red
2018-02-23 10:30:01	argoneus	same thing
2018-02-23 10:30:44	jmcgnh	argoneus: not quite
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2018-02-23 10:31:16	argoneus	sorry, I'm really retarded when it comes to this ;; if you don't want to explain I can try and read up on it
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2018-02-23 10:31:32	jmcgnh	argoneus: the power from the rpi is connected to both the vcc pin of the sensor and to one end of the resistor
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2018-02-23 10:31:52	argoneus	uh-huh
2018-02-23 10:31:54	jmcgnh	argoneus: the ground fronm the prip is connected to the ground pin of the sensor
2018-02-23 10:31:56	BurtyB	argoneus, in the image the red wire connects to the left leg of the resitor and the left leg of the dht11 module
2018-02-23 10:33:06	argoneus	I'm still having trouble imagining how exactly the current flows
2018-02-23 10:33:24	argoneus	if the breadboard is "vertical", does that mean there's no current going from the left row to the second from left row?
2018-02-23 10:33:26	argoneus	or column rather
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2018-02-23 10:34:30	BurtyB	argoneus, yes it can only flow from left<>right through another component/wire/etc.
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2018-02-23 10:35:29	argoneus	ohhhh
2018-02-23 10:35:41	argoneus	so the only way any power gets to the data pin is through the resistor?
2018-02-23 10:37:07	jmcgnh	argoneus: the sensor communicates with the rpi over the blue wire...internally it is grounding or insulating that pin to create the digital signal encoding the sensor reading
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2018-02-23 10:37:29	BurtyB	argoneus, basically yes (but also via the gpio pin via the blue wire which can be pulled high/low by the Pi as it's bi directional protocol using one pin)
2018-02-23 10:37:36	argoneus	meh, sorry, I still don't really get it
2018-02-23 10:37:53	argoneus	all I know is that I assume the point is that the raspi goes from the 5V towards the GND
2018-02-23 10:37:57	argoneus	through the breadboard/the sensor
2018-02-23 10:38:02	argoneus	but I just... can't see how
2018-02-23 10:38:59	gordonDrogon	argoneus, it's 3.3v, not 5v. Very important to remembe in the Pi world.
2018-02-23 10:39:19	gordonDrogon	argoneus, maybe best stick with a ready-made board to start with.
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2018-02-23 10:39:48	BurtyB	gordonDrogon, looking at it I'd assume it's an open collector so it runs the module on 5v and just pulls to gnd - so should be fine on 5v
2018-02-23 10:39:59	argoneus	mmm, I was mostly trying to understand things instead of just copypasting images/videos
2018-02-23 10:40:21	gordonDrogon	Huh. Woa.
2018-02-23 10:40:38	gordonDrogon	Those sensors work just fine on 3.3v. No need to abuse the Pi's GPIO with 5v.
2018-02-23 10:40:41	jmcgnh	argoneus: yes, it's good to learn some of these things because you'll encounter them again and again
2018-02-23 10:40:49	BurtyB	gordonDrogon, you're not doing...
2018-02-23 10:41:15	gordonDrogon	not doing what?
2018-02-23 10:41:28	BurtyB	um actually it is sorry I missed the resistor is pulling to 5v
2018-02-23 10:41:31	gordonDrogon	IMO the person who did that diagram is just asking for trouble.
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2018-02-23 11:33:40	argoneus	oh, I think I get it now
2018-02-23 11:34:00	argoneus	each of the lines is a separate current
2018-02-23 11:34:04	argoneus	or rather
2018-02-23 11:34:57	argoneus	the pull up resistor is wired directly to the VCC
2018-02-23 11:35:02	argoneus	that's why it's like that
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2018-02-23 11:44:41	argoneus	gordonDrogon: btw, could you explain the 3.3V vs 5V distinction?
2018-02-23 11:44:51	argoneus	I don't change the voltage by adding a resistor or a component, do I?
2018-02-23 11:45:28	argoneus	and the sensor says it's 3V to 5V
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2018-02-23 11:55:53	gordonDrogon	the sensor can be powered by 3.3v. The Pi's GPIO inputs are 3.3v. Put 5v into them and there's a good chance you'll break them. That diagram uses the 5v supply from the Pi  - it should use the 3.3v supply.
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2018-02-23 11:59:15	argoneus	ohh, PI has two supplies?
2018-02-23 11:59:17	argoneus	I see
2018-02-23 11:59:48	gordonDrogon	the Pi is fed via 5v. on the board it generates the 3.3v supply that the Pi needs.
2018-02-23 12:00:00	gordonDrogon	it also generates 1.8v but you can mostly ignore that.
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2018-02-23 12:00:06	argoneus	ah, I see
2018-02-23 12:00:11	argoneus	so I just connect
2018-02-23 12:00:13	argoneus	3.3V and GND to the breadboard
2018-02-23 12:00:16	argoneus	and then I'm good
2018-02-23 12:00:17	gordonDrogon	yes.
2018-02-23 12:00:23	argoneus	wait
2018-02-23 12:00:29	argoneus	does the breadboard by itself have some resistance?
2018-02-23 12:00:37	argoneus	oh wait nvm
2018-02-23 12:00:40	gordonDrogon	I still strongly recommend you buy a ready-made board to start with.
2018-02-23 12:00:42	argoneus	they aren't connected in the line
2018-02-23 12:00:49	argoneus	those are expensive though
2018-02-23 12:00:52	argoneus	I just need a sensor and a LCD
2018-02-23 12:00:54	gordonDrogon	Everything has resistance but to all intents and purposes, a breadboard has none.
2018-02-23 12:01:05	gordonDrogon	thought you wanted a coloured LED?
2018-02-23 12:01:21	gordonDrogon	why not start by simply printing the values to the screen you're already using on the Pi ..
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2018-02-23 12:01:53	argoneus	I suppose
2018-02-23 12:02:19	argoneus	wait, I don't have a separate display for the pi
2018-02-23 12:02:28	argoneus	(I don't even have a pi yet, just wondering what all I need to buy)
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2018-02-23 12:02:50	argoneus	the tl;dr is that for a college project and for my own uses, I wanted to try and make a temperature+humidity meter and print it to a screen
2018-02-23 12:03:26	gordonDrogon	those sensors are cheap and easy to use - they're not perfect.
2018-02-23 12:03:29	gordonDrogon	but mostly OK.
2018-02-23 12:04:03	gordonDrogon	How much Linux do you know?
2018-02-23 12:04:04	Habbie	argoneus, you don't need a separate display if you can ssh
2018-02-23 12:04:19	argoneus	like, have it in my room I meant
2018-02-23 12:04:23	argoneus	just for fun
2018-02-23 12:04:31	argoneus	like a temp meter
2018-02-23 12:04:50	argoneus	but I'm too retarded to use a display anyway
2018-02-23 12:04:55	gordonDrogon	sure, but have you used Linux before?
2018-02-23 12:05:06	argoneus	yes, I'm fine on the SW side
2018-02-23 12:05:11	argoneus	I can use linux, python, bash, etc.
2018-02-23 12:05:13	argoneus	no problem
2018-02-23 12:05:23	argoneus	I just really suck at hardware stuff
2018-02-23 12:05:31	gordonDrogon	ok, so you can run a Pi 'headless' just connect in via Ethernet & ssh.
2018-02-23 12:05:46	gordonDrogon	I suggest stopping now and go and buy a Pi.
2018-02-23 12:06:02	gordonDrogon	Get a Pi v3 and a case and an approved power supply, as well as breadboard.
2018-02-23 12:06:31	argoneus	can I use both 3.3V and 5V with the same breadboard?
2018-02-23 12:06:36	argoneus	from what I've seen they have two of those... lines?
2018-02-23 12:07:22	gordonDrogon	https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-3-essentials-kit
2018-02-23 12:07:25	gordonDrogon	get that to get going.
2018-02-23 12:07:39	gordonDrogon	don't mix 3.3v and 5v on a breadboard. just don't.
2018-02-23 12:07:53	argoneus	uff that's expensi-- wait that comes with the raspi too?
2018-02-23 12:08:00	gordonDrogon	yes,
2018-02-23 12:08:02	argoneus	that's cheap
2018-02-23 12:08:24	gordonDrogon	it's reasonable and the Nija case will protect the Pi and give you access to the gpio.
2018-02-23 12:08:28	argoneus	I was just wondering, since
2018-02-23 12:08:38	argoneus	the sensor uses 3.3V but a led screen I found uses 5V
2018-02-23 12:08:44	gordonDrogon	and you will get a proper PSU and a reputable SD card.
2018-02-23 12:08:56	gordonDrogon	yea, forget the LCD screen for now.
2018-02-23 12:09:04	argoneus	just wondering how that'd work in the future
2018-02-23 12:09:06	argoneus	:<
2018-02-23 12:09:08	gordonDrogon	you can use a terminal/console/ssh/putty login to start with.
2018-02-23 12:09:28	gordonDrogon	wire that up, then it's one command to test it.
2018-02-23 12:09:38	gordonDrogon	just one command- no code, no programming, just one simple command.
2018-02-23 12:09:51	argoneus	test... what exactly?
2018-02-23 12:09:55	gordonDrogon	the sensor.
2018-02-23 12:09:58	argoneus	oh.
2018-02-23 12:10:00	gordonDrogon	test your wiring, etc.
2018-02-23 12:10:07	argoneus	I assume I need to buy wires too
2018-02-23 12:10:18	gordonDrogon	yes.
2018-02-23 12:10:48	gordonDrogon	https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/jumper-jerky
2018-02-23 12:10:57	gordonDrogon	you need female (Pi end) to Male (breadboard end)
2018-02-23 12:11:14	argoneus	oh, cool
2018-02-23 12:11:19	argoneus	it also has a micro sd card adapter
2018-02-23 12:11:22	argoneus	so I can use it with my laptop
2018-02-23 12:11:22	gordonDrogon	https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/maker-essentials-mini-breadboards-jumper-jerky
2018-02-23 12:11:35	gordonDrogon	that has almost all you need - just the sensor and resistor.
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2018-02-23 12:11:43	gordonDrogon	the SD comes pre-installed.
2018-02-23 12:12:16	argoneus	ohh, I thought NOOBS was an OS
2018-02-23 12:12:21	argoneus	but it seems more akin to a GRUB
2018-02-23 12:12:28	argoneus	a smart GRUB
2018-02-23 12:12:34	gordonDrogon	noobs is an OS.
2018-02-23 12:12:47	gordonDrogon	the pi has no grub or lilo.
2018-02-23 12:12:59	argoneus	so I can't use raspbian out of the box?
2018-02-23 12:13:01	gordonDrogon	personally, I'd re-image the SD card with Raspbian.
2018-02-23 12:13:03	Habbie	and noobs is not like grub - it's like a multi-OS *installer*, not a multiboot chooser
2018-02-23 12:13:09	gordonDrogon	noobs will let you install raspbian.
2018-02-23 12:13:16	gordonDrogon	(at least it used to)
2018-02-23 12:13:17	argoneus	headless?
2018-02-23 12:13:33	gordonDrogon	no - noobs needs screen/keyboard & mouse.
2018-02-23 12:13:36	argoneus	fug
2018-02-23 12:13:38	Habbie	so use raspbian
2018-02-23 12:13:41	argoneus	is there a headless soluti--
2018-02-23 12:13:44	gordonDrogon	but raspbian can be booted headless.
2018-02-23 12:13:47	argoneus	ah
2018-02-23 12:13:51	argoneus	so I just reformat the SD on my laptop
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2018-02-23 12:13:58	gordonDrogon	so re-image the SD with raspbian and off you go - not format, image.
2018-02-23 12:14:02	argoneus	reimage, mb
2018-02-23 12:14:21	gordonDrogon	use etcher from windows to copy the image to the SD.
2018-02-23 12:14:37	gordonDrogon	or dd if you're running linux.
2018-02-23 12:14:46	katnip	i saw in an email pi2 had a kernel update, will that apply to pi3 eventually?
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2018-02-23 12:15:35	argoneus	so tl;dr, essentials kit, a breadboard the sensor, a bunch of wires, a 10k ohm pull up resistor
2018-02-23 12:15:40	argoneus	and then just wire it up and it should work
2018-02-23 12:16:15	gordonDrogon	katnip, yes - just apt-get update/upgrade and you'll get the latest kernel for your install.
2018-02-23 12:16:27	katnip	ok ty
2018-02-23 12:16:29	argoneus	still wondering, though
2018-02-23 12:16:33	ShorTie	dupont wires for bread boarding normally
2018-02-23 12:16:36	argoneus	https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/projects/raspberrypi/tutorials/robot/images/breadboard-breakout.JPG is it bad to mix 3.3V and 5V on this?
2018-02-23 12:16:53	Habbie	argoneus, you are likely to confuse yourself if you mix it, is what gordonDrogon meant i think
2018-02-23 12:16:54	argoneus	if I use GND on both ends and 3.3V on one side and 5V on the other side
2018-02-23 12:17:01	argoneus	ah
2018-02-23 12:17:11	Habbie	what you are describing now is what i do regularly
2018-02-23 12:17:20	Habbie	and there have been incidents ;)
2018-02-23 12:17:25	argoneus	I see
2018-02-23 12:17:35	Habbie	it's not wrong, just easy to get things wrong following after
2018-02-23 12:17:37	ShorTie	carefull with 5v stuff, 5v will blow a pi up
2018-02-23 12:17:39	argoneus	can I just... extend the GND from one side to the other?
2018-02-23 12:17:42	Habbie	ShorTie, exactly
2018-02-23 12:17:45	Habbie	argoneus, yes
2018-02-23 12:17:45	argoneus	if I need both sides
2018-02-23 12:18:02	Habbie	ShorTie, we're warning argoneus in long form :)
2018-02-23 12:18:05	argoneus	okay I will be careful with 5V
2018-02-23 12:18:07	argoneus	or rather
2018-02-23 12:18:12	argoneus	I'll pretend the 5V pin doesn't exist for now
2018-02-23 12:18:33	gordonDrogon	there are 2 x 5v pins.  Pretend both don't exist..
2018-02-23 12:18:34	red9	Habbie, Any bad consequences of those incidents?
2018-02-23 12:18:49	argoneus	(any problem with wiring stuff up while it's running?)
2018-02-23 12:18:49	Habbie	red9, no, mostly the pi resetting - so far
2018-02-23 12:18:53	argoneus	(or is it "just" 3V)
2018-02-23 12:19:03	Habbie	red9, i did fry a few esp8266 but that was by shorting + to -
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2018-02-23 12:19:35	argoneus	does a "reputable" power supply prevent things from exploding if I accidentally shortcircuit?
2018-02-23 12:19:41	red9	argoneus, Just choose different colours for 3.3V and 5V. And be consistent through your project with wire colour and layout.
2018-02-23 12:19:41	Habbie	no
2018-02-23 12:19:42	argoneus	or would I need some special anti-retard measure
2018-02-23 12:19:52	Habbie	please stop saying retard
2018-02-23 12:19:56	Habbie	don't wire things while running
2018-02-23 12:19:59	Habbie	that avoids 80% of accidents
2018-02-23 12:20:07	Habbie	can't short circuit if there's no power
2018-02-23 12:20:11	argoneus	oki
2018-02-23 12:20:17	Habbie	that's how i fried my esp boards
2018-02-23 12:20:22	Habbie	by being stubborn and hasty while running
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2018-02-23 12:20:31	argoneus	well
2018-02-23 12:20:39	argoneus	not much to mess up wiring up a sensor I guess
2018-02-23 12:20:42	argoneus	actually one more thing
2018-02-23 12:20:45	Habbie	plenty to mess up
2018-02-23 12:20:52	argoneus	if I somehow mess up the pull up resistor, can that do any damage?
2018-02-23 12:20:57	argoneus	or is the worst case "it doesn't give output"
2018-02-23 12:20:57	red9	I recall trying to kill a 80286 PC for fun together with another electronics engineer. Shorting just about everything didn't have any effect. BUT wiring +5V to +12V settled it all ;)
2018-02-23 12:21:13	Habbie	argoneus, hard to say without the schematic
2018-02-23 12:21:30	JimBuntu	argoneus, to answer your question, you can get power supplies that trip pretty quick and stop sending power... but, they probably wont help you much in only preventing a fried device... they are more about preventing long term damage
2018-02-23 12:21:36	argoneus	oh right, schematic, any cool sites / tools to draw schematics?
2018-02-23 12:21:44	argoneus	so I can ask here before I blow things up
2018-02-23 12:21:50	Habbie	i've tried fritzing but i found it hard to use
2018-02-23 12:21:54	Habbie	it's still popular
2018-02-23 12:22:17	Habbie	argoneus, but presumably you got the idea you need a '10k ohm resistor' from somewhere - where?
2018-02-23 12:22:25	argoneus	http://www.circuitbasics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/How-to-Setup-the-DHT11-on-the-Raspberry-Pi-Four-pin-DHT11-Wiring-Diagram.png
2018-02-23 12:22:31	red9	Minimize risks. But practical electronics as opposed to simulated involves RISK. Have spares instead.
2018-02-23 12:22:31	argoneus	the DHT11 apparently comes with one
2018-02-23 12:22:33	argoneus	and suggests using it
2018-02-23 12:22:41	argoneus	and I'm still not 100% on what it does
2018-02-23 12:22:48	argoneus	or rather, I know what the goal of it is, but I don't understand how it works inside
2018-02-23 12:22:56	Habbie	what's the goal of it?
2018-02-23 12:23:35	argoneus	to make sure the sensor behaves deterministically the resistor forces an "off" state when the sensor isn't ... sensoring
2018-02-23 12:23:37	argoneus	is what I understand
2018-02-23 12:23:42	Habbie	roughly accurate
2018-02-23 12:23:46	Habbie	pullup/pulldown took me a bit to grok
2018-02-23 12:23:56	Habbie	in this case, leaving out the resistor might make your signal wobbly or useless
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2018-02-23 12:24:05	Habbie	should be just that
2018-02-23 12:24:11	argoneus	I more meant
2018-02-23 12:24:17	argoneus	if I connect the resistor between VCC and GND or something
2018-02-23 12:24:22	argoneus	if it will explode
2018-02-23 12:24:38	Habbie	things will get hot
2018-02-23 12:24:41	Habbie	unless a fuse trips
2018-02-23 12:24:44	Habbie	then things will do nothing
2018-02-23 12:24:58	argoneus	I also don't really understand how the pull up resistor works
2018-02-23 12:25:00	argoneus	like in that image
2018-02-23 12:25:07	argoneus	apparently it'd also work if the resistor was above the red wire
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2018-02-23 12:25:15	Habbie	above?
2018-02-23 12:25:16	argoneus	but I don't understand the current flow
2018-02-23 12:25:21	argoneus	like... the pin above the red wire
2018-02-23 12:25:23	argoneus	on the breadboard
2018-02-23 12:25:35	Habbie	so the dht has four pins
2018-02-23 12:25:38	Habbie	from left to right 1 2 3 4
2018-02-23 12:25:47	Habbie	pin 1 is connected to the red wire and the left side of the resistor
2018-02-23 12:25:48	JimBuntu	argoneus, might I suggest you take a break and learn how breadboards work before going any deeper?
2018-02-23 12:25:53	Habbie	pin 2 is connected to the blue wire and the right side of the resistor
2018-02-23 12:25:54	Habbie	yes
2018-02-23 12:26:02	Habbie	maybe just look that up instead :)
2018-02-23 12:26:42	red9	One way to detect humidity is to exploit a capacitor that uses free air as the dielectricum. Where the permittivity changes with humidity. Then a charge-discharge measurement will tell how the air is doing.
2018-02-23 12:27:08	Habbie	red9, i've learned over the years that -many- pieces of electronics can be used to incidentally measure various environmental variables
2018-02-23 12:27:58	red9	Habbie, The trick is to know which one that have the majority of influence over the output signal ;)
2018-02-23 12:28:08	red9	oh and deterministic operation..
2018-02-23 12:28:20	Habbie	uhuh
2018-02-23 12:28:30	argoneus	I'm ashamed to admit that I actually already tried looking up how that works, or at least I see it as there being two long lines along the entire thing, one is the +, the other is the -, and then if I connect the VCC to one of the 5 pin "columns", the current will flow through that one column?
2018-02-23 12:28:33	JimBuntu	Habbie, has anyone warned yet that the breadboard pictured is missing the "power lines" that run horizontal (based on the picture) and are normally present in all but the tiny breadboards?
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2018-02-23 12:28:46	argoneus	like
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2018-02-23 12:28:48	Habbie	JimBuntu, not yet
2018-02-23 12:28:52	Habbie	argoneus, see what JimBuntu says
2018-02-23 12:28:52	argoneus	that picture confuses me because I don't see where the power line is
2018-02-23 12:28:59	JimBuntu	argoneus, good timing on that question as the image presumes you don't have those ones.
2018-02-23 12:28:59	Habbie	argoneus, the breadboard on that picture does not have the long power lines
2018-02-23 12:29:14	argoneus	oh
2018-02-23 12:29:18	red9	btw, https://www.circuitbasics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/How-to-Setup-the-DHT11-on-the-Raspberry-Pi-Four-pin-DHT11-Wiring-Diagram.png - seems to wire the DHT11 output supported by +5V to a +3.3V input. Might break the Raspberry.
2018-02-23 12:29:20	argoneus	I thought it was a "simplification" not a different model
2018-02-23 12:29:22	Habbie	argoneus, it wires vcc and gnd to two of the 'short' lines
2018-02-23 12:29:26	Habbie	no, this model exists
2018-02-23 12:29:49	JimBuntu	Sorry to jump in like this, but it could be an easy mistake to make
2018-02-23 12:29:53	Habbie	JimBuntu, very good
2018-02-23 12:29:59	argoneus	so VCC in that picture flows into both the sensor and the resistor?
2018-02-23 12:30:04	Habbie	yes
2018-02-23 12:30:09	Habbie	just like in section 3 of http://www.micropik.com/PDF/dht11.pdf
2018-02-23 12:30:15	Habbie	which you should read every word of
2018-02-23 12:30:22	argoneus	see, that's what confuses me, since that's what I thought
2018-02-23 12:30:22	Habbie	if only because the questions that come from that will educate you greatly
2018-02-23 12:30:25	argoneus	but someone here told me
2018-02-23 12:30:29	Habbie	(i was where you are two years ago :) )
2018-02-23 12:30:32	argoneus	that if the resistor was "above" the red wire
2018-02-23 12:30:37	argoneus	that is, between the sensor and the VCC
2018-02-23 12:30:39	argoneus	it'd work the same.
2018-02-23 12:30:41	Habbie	yes
2018-02-23 12:30:49	Habbie	http://www.toptechboy.com/arduino/arduino-lesson-2-using-a-breadboard/
2018-02-23 12:30:51	Habbie	look at this picture
2018-02-23 12:30:55	argoneus	oh wait I'm fucking retarded
2018-02-23 12:31:00	Habbie	stop saying both of those words please
2018-02-23 12:31:01	argoneus	just because a resistor is there doesn't mean the current will go through there
2018-02-23 12:31:09	argoneus	sorry
2018-02-23 12:31:22	argoneus	I just feel like I'm asking really stupid questions and wasting your time
2018-02-23 12:31:26	Habbie	you're not
2018-02-23 12:31:33	red9	One suggestion is a > 206 ohm resistor in series with the DHT11 output. And then a 3.3V zenerdiode pointing towards the input. And the other end of the zener to GND:
2018-02-23 12:31:35	Habbie	when i said 'i was where you are now, two years ago' i mean that i fully understand
2018-02-23 12:31:36	JimBuntu	argoneus, yes, it would work the same. The board in question from the image has two groups of "holes". The "top" and "bottom" group. All work in the image is being done on the "top" group. The top group are in rows or columns... the holes in each column are electrically connected.
2018-02-23 12:31:45	argoneus	uh-huh
2018-02-23 12:31:56	argoneus	I just struggled to understand what the resistor actually... does
2018-02-23 12:32:00	Habbie	so
2018-02-23 12:32:13	Habbie	it prevents 'floating' which is a good search term
2018-02-23 12:32:22	argoneus	right, that's the undeterministic state
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2018-02-23 12:32:29	Habbie	an experiment i recommend is connecting a button, on a breadboard, to a gpio reading pin
2018-02-23 12:32:34	Habbie	without pullup/pulldown
2018-02-23 12:32:39	Habbie	then read it repeatedly
2018-02-23 12:32:54	Habbie	when you connect it, it will reliably go to one state (be it 1 or 0 depending on how you connect it)
2018-02-23 12:32:59	Habbie	uh, when you push it
2018-02-23 12:33:04	Habbie	when you release it, it might flap around a lot
2018-02-23 12:33:20	Habbie	a pullup/pulldown prevents that by taking the 'unconnected' state to a stable state
2018-02-23 12:33:23	Habbie	but at very high resistance
2018-02-23 12:33:25	red9	argoneus, Got a oscilloscope nearby?
2018-02-23 12:33:29	argoneus	n-no
2018-02-23 12:33:32	Habbie	so that the button, when it does connect, 'wins' from that resistance
2018-02-23 12:33:33	ShorTie	still need a current limiting resister with the switch
2018-02-23 12:33:41	ShorTie	button
2018-02-23 12:33:44	Habbie	ShorTie, guess i've gotten lucky but i agree
2018-02-23 12:34:08	argoneus	ohhh, wait
2018-02-23 12:34:24	Habbie	ShorTie, worked fine for me with pi and esp, but i did have one other board that got all confused without the current limiting resistor yes
2018-02-23 12:34:35	argoneus	so while the sensor isn't sensoring, or the button isn't being pressed, the current in the "column" is kinda... unstable? so instead I force a stable current under a high resistance from the VCC?
2018-02-23 12:34:40	red9	I have used the DTH22 humidity sensor ..
2018-02-23 12:34:46	Habbie	argoneus, roughly, yes
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2018-02-23 12:35:11	Habbie	not the current, the electric potential (in volts)
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2018-02-23 12:35:26	Habbie	if there is no circuit, there is no current
2018-02-23 12:35:28	argoneus	and 10k ohms because I want the current to be weak?
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2018-02-23 12:35:52	argoneus	oh, ooooh
2018-02-23 12:35:53	red9	Is there any input on a Rasberry Pi or ATmega that can be used as a input for a digital differential signal?
2018-02-23 12:36:25	argoneus	so that's why I can't use the built in raspi "pullup" thing? because it's 50k ohms, so I wouldn't be able to tell between on and off since the sensor operates at a much... smaller current? sorry I'm probably mixing terms a lot
2018-02-23 12:36:28	argoneus	but I think I kinda get it?
2018-02-23 12:36:36	red9	Instead of adding a external RS-485 transceiver.
2018-02-23 12:36:55	Habbie	argoneus, i bet the builtin would work fine for this
2018-02-23 12:37:05	argoneus	my biggest fear was basically
2018-02-23 12:37:10	argoneus	"if I don't use the resistor is it going to burn up"
2018-02-23 12:37:18	Habbie	argoneus, but yes, a 50k resistor is a -weaker- pullup
2018-02-23 12:37:24	Habbie	argoneus, which took me months to understand when people said it
2018-02-23 12:37:26	Habbie	'but the number is bigger?!?!'
2018-02-23 12:37:30	argoneus	oh right
2018-02-23 12:37:34	argoneus	the resistance is higher so the current is smaller
2018-02-23 12:37:51	argoneus	ooooh.
2018-02-23 12:37:53	red9	The strongest current wins.
2018-02-23 12:37:55	argoneus	thanks so much!
2018-02-23 12:37:58	larsks	Habbie: that was a nice summary of pull-up/down.
2018-02-23 12:38:00	Habbie	in any case, this project won't burn up from a missing pullup resistor
2018-02-23 12:38:06	Habbie	larsks, thanks!
2018-02-23 12:38:11	Habbie	larsks, like i said, took me months to get
2018-02-23 12:38:44	argoneus	and with the pullup resistor in place, my program, or rather, the raspi will be able to tell when the sensor is actually sending data
2018-02-23 12:38:49	argoneus	and I can read those
2018-02-23 12:39:29	argoneus	I still find it interesting that just a bunch of electrical current can tell me the temperature in my room is 25C
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2018-02-23 12:39:39	argoneus	but then again, I'm using a bunch of current to ask these questions to you guys, so...
2018-02-23 12:40:02	Habbie	it all remains very magical to me :)
2018-02-23 12:40:20	argoneus	I really feel kind of ashamed though
2018-02-23 12:40:31	argoneus	my major is computer science, I've learned stuff about logic gates and CPUs and whatnot
2018-02-23 12:40:37	argoneus	and then I go here and ask "uhh what's a resistor"
2018-02-23 12:40:46	Habbie	absolutely the same here
2018-02-23 12:40:49	Habbie	logic cates are so abstract
2018-02-23 12:41:37	JimBuntu	argoneus, check out the temperature coefficient of metals and you will find that you can even tell the temp simply from how some metals change resistance with slight temp changes. Very crude, but it works... and works well enough that for a very long time that thermostats in homes and businesses relied on the crude method of checking the change on a very long coil of metal.
2018-02-23 12:41:37	Habbie	*gates
2018-02-23 12:41:55	argoneus	oh, huh
2018-02-23 12:42:36	argoneus	a breadboard seems like a nice investment
2018-02-23 12:42:37	Habbie	also this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimetallic_strip
2018-02-23 12:42:46	Habbie	argoneus, what's your timeline for this project?
2018-02-23 12:42:46	JimBuntu	In the thermostat example I give, it was even cruder and they placed two strips of dissimilar metals back to back to form a single very long strip, coiled it up into a tight wind and measured the torque/pull created from one metal changing length at a different rate from the other
2018-02-23 12:42:57	argoneus	thanks a ton for all your help <3 I feel more motivated to get one now
2018-02-23 12:43:01	argoneus	uhh, like 2 months?
2018-02-23 12:43:03	larsks	argoneus: get more than one breadboard.  That way you can fiddle with something without tearing down your project :)
2018-02-23 12:43:27	argoneus	I'm not scared of the actual programming in python or whatever
2018-02-23 12:43:29	Habbie	argoneus, if you have time, breadboards and such are super cheap from sites like aliexpress.com
2018-02-23 12:43:33	JimBuntu	larsks, that's sage advice, you alomost can't have too many
2018-02-23 12:43:35	Habbie	argoneus, in which case, just get 10
2018-02-23 12:43:36	argoneus	I can't fry anything there anymore
2018-02-23 12:43:50	argoneus	(I hope)
2018-02-23 12:43:58	Habbie	so
2018-02-23 12:44:05	Habbie	it is entirely possible to build things that -can- be fried from software
2018-02-23 12:44:12	Habbie	the circuit for your dht11 is not such a thing
2018-02-23 12:44:53	argoneus	I suppose if later down the road I want to add a lcd display
2018-02-23 12:44:59	argoneus	this display would also be connected through the breadboard?
2018-02-23 12:45:02	argoneus	just with a higher voltage
2018-02-23 12:45:12	Habbie	the voltage depends on the display you buy
2018-02-23 12:45:15	Habbie	and breadboards are not mandatory
2018-02-23 12:45:21	Habbie	they are just very convenient
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2018-02-23 12:45:52	argoneus	I guess as long as I don't literally connect VCC to GND directly I shouldn't break things too much
2018-02-23 12:46:30	Habbie	that's another reason to buy in bulk from china
2018-02-23 12:46:33	Habbie	you will break things
2018-02-23 12:46:46	Habbie	12:33Z <ShorTie> still need a current limiting resister with the switch
2018-02-23 12:46:48	Habbie	like this
2018-02-23 12:46:56	JimBuntu	argoneus, as Habbie mentions... breadboards aren't needed. What you are using is actually a specific kind of breadboard often referred to as an 'experimenters board' because it's fast and easy to change the design... there are also exact duplicates that are thinner and made of proper circuit board materials, that you can solder on to... so you can take a design you make with your board and then easily duplicate it in a more permenant fashi
2018-02-23 12:46:56	JimBuntu	on.
2018-02-23 12:46:57	Habbie	i burned up a few optocouplers by ignoring this
2018-02-23 12:47:21	argoneus	as in
2018-02-23 12:47:32	argoneus	the gadget I connect to the 3.3V requires an even weaker current not to fry?
2018-02-23 12:47:51	argoneus	and if I ignore it I'll fry the gadget
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2018-02-23 12:48:35	Habbie	3.3V is the voltage, not the current
2018-02-23 12:50:10	argoneus	right, but isn't the current derived from the voltage?
2018-02-23 12:50:13	argoneus	ohm's law or something
2018-02-23 12:50:32	Habbie	there is a relation, yes
2018-02-23 12:50:35	Habbie	i couldn't explain it to you
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2018-02-23 12:50:50	argoneus	basically what I meant was
2018-02-23 12:51:03	argoneus	that some of the gadgets I can use with the raspi need a specific resistance not to fry?
2018-02-23 12:51:07	argoneus	is what I understood from what you said
2018-02-23 12:51:08	JimBuntu	come on Habbie, use the water concept to talk about pressure versus volume ;-D
2018-02-23 12:51:20	Habbie	JimBuntu, i have a book here that does that!
2018-02-23 12:51:22	Habbie	it's a very good book
2018-02-23 12:51:31	Habbie	https://www.makershed.com/products/make-electronics-2ed
2018-02-23 12:51:34	Habbie	maybe argoneus should buy it
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2018-02-23 12:52:17	JimBuntu	Habbie, that's the most common way I have heard it explained... works the same with air pressure but gasses are harder to grasp than liquids. Seriously though argoneus there are tons of tutorials and info online that explain volts versus amps ranging from low detail to extreme
2018-02-23 12:52:26	Habbie	indeed
2018-02-23 12:52:42	argoneus	yes I'll read those in time for sure
2018-02-23 12:52:52	Habbie	so
2018-02-23 12:52:54	Habbie	i was also stubborn about this
2018-02-23 12:52:54	argoneus	was just wondering if there are specific sensors or such that require me to have specific resistors
2018-02-23 12:52:56	argoneus	not to fry
2018-02-23 12:53:05	Habbie	but the time is now
2018-02-23 12:53:17	Habbie	i could tell you what i do but it's terrible advice
2018-02-23 12:53:21	argoneus	o-oh
2018-02-23 12:53:33	Habbie	'when in doubt, stick 330 ohms in line'
2018-02-23 12:53:42	Habbie	i'm sure this will backfire greatly some day
2018-02-23 12:53:51	argoneus	wew
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2018-02-23 12:54:34	argoneus	I guess I'll read about it then
2018-02-23 12:54:44	argoneus	I just didn't understand the "current limiting resistors"
2018-02-23 12:54:51	Habbie	also, for almost anything you can buy, there will be howtos on adafruit and other sites
2018-02-23 12:54:54	Habbie	that tell you what to use
2018-02-23 12:54:56	argoneus	since if e.g. something says it's graded for 2V
2018-02-23 12:54:58	ShorTie	you only really need a couple different value's of resistors
2018-02-23 12:54:59	argoneus	and I want to use it on 3.3V
2018-02-23 12:55:07	argoneus	if that means I can't use it or if I need to calculate a specific resistance
2018-02-23 12:55:09	argoneus	etc.
2018-02-23 12:55:18	Habbie	you can take 3V3 down to 2 with two resistors
2018-02-23 12:55:33	Habbie	http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/How-to-reduce-voltage-with-resistors.php
2018-02-23 12:55:44	Habbie	they 'split' the voltage between them depending on their relative resistance
2018-02-23 12:55:59	Habbie	but, then the sensor may also signal at the lower voltage back to your pi
2018-02-23 12:56:03	Habbie	and your pi may not understand that
2018-02-23 12:56:07	JimBuntu	argoneus, best way to explain current limiting is like this... the amount of current pulled from a power supply depends on the resistance.... when using a "limiting resister", you are preventing the resistance from going BELOW what the resistor is... hence, you can't draw MORE current than the resistor's base value... only less. Less resistance equals more current draw.
2018-02-23 12:57:21	JimBuntu	argoneus, mind you, this is a very basic explanation... but this is also IRC.
2018-02-23 12:58:43	red9	Seems "datagutt1.com" has failed..
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2018-02-23 12:59:47	argoneus	ah, I see
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2018-02-23 13:05:06	red9	Anyone able to fix "Logs: http://srv.datagutt1.com" ?
2018-02-23 13:05:40	Habbie	not me, but if you're looking for something specific, i have local logs
2018-02-23 13:06:24	red9	The log for the day would be nice.
2018-02-23 13:06:32	Habbie	today?
2018-02-23 13:06:33	Habbie	ok
2018-02-23 13:06:48	gordonDrogon	I've no idea who setup the logger for the channel.
2018-02-23 13:07:13	red9	Asked a question and missed to see any possible answers..
2018-02-23 13:07:15	Habbie	red9, recommend me a pastebin tool for raspbian please :)
2018-02-23 13:07:17	Habbie	red9, so i can pipe to it
2018-02-23 13:07:31	Habbie	raspbian 8 to be clear
2018-02-23 13:07:38	red9	as in text mode?
2018-02-23 13:07:46	Habbie	yes, grep foo.log | sometool
2018-02-23 13:08:07	ShorTie	raspbian/debian has a pastebin tool you can install
2018-02-23 13:08:07	larsks	Habbie:  pipe to | nc termbin.com 9999
2018-02-23 13:08:27	red9	grep foo.log > dump.txt
2018-02-23 13:08:42	Habbie	http://termbin.com/cmvl
2018-02-23 13:08:47	JimBuntu	does raspbien not support pastbinit ?
2018-02-23 13:08:47	red9	then in irc "/DCC SEND red9 dump.txt
2018-02-23 13:08:58	 *	larsks loves pastebins that don't require custom clients.
2018-02-23 13:09:02	Habbie	JimBuntu, i bet it has many things, i just wanted to know what word to type
2018-02-23 13:09:05	Habbie	but it's done now
2018-02-23 13:09:17	JimBuntu	Habbie, ah, ok. I like termbin as well
2018-02-23 13:09:41	red9	larsks, Agreed!
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2018-02-23 13:10:36	red9	All this gazillion ajax cleaning - javaterror - need gigagillion of RAM.. just to paste a <unfamilyword++> piece of text. Is ludicrus.
2018-02-23 13:11:05	Habbie	i usually use gistit but it's not in apt-get on raspbian 8 apparently
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2018-02-23 13:12:29	ShorTie	pastebinit - command-line pastebin client
2018-02-23 13:12:33	red9	But then you need a package. Better to have something general that just work on whatever Unix you happen to be on.
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2018-02-23 13:13:06	red9	apt-get might work less good on say OpenVMS..
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2018-02-23 13:13:22	Habbie	depends on your openvms distribution ;)
2018-02-23 13:13:56	red9	point is pipe the sh## to a tcp host:port is really just-works(tm)
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2018-02-23 13:15:40	JimBuntu	plumbing changes Unix forever
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2018-02-23 13:15:52	JimBuntu	s/changes/changed/
2018-02-23 13:16:04	red9	So can any of the GPIO ports be used for digital differential input?
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2018-02-23 13:16:32	ShorTie	nop
2018-02-23 13:17:04	red9	Guess RS-485 tranceiver it is then.. ;)
2018-02-23 13:18:20	argoneus	btw, do I understand correctly that a raspi > arduino? in terms of how much it can handle
2018-02-23 13:18:26	argoneus	(and as a result is a bit more costly)
2018-02-23 13:18:33	Habbie	argoneus, the cpu and ram are more powerful, yes
2018-02-23 13:18:33	larsks	argoneus: well, more raspi != arduino, really :)
2018-02-23 13:18:43	Habbie	argoneus, but there are lots of differences both ways
2018-02-23 13:18:48	argoneus	as in, IOT stuff
2018-02-23 13:18:53	Habbie	argoneus, for example an arduino does not need to 'boot' like a pi
2018-02-23 13:18:54	argoneus	seems like an arduino is more meant for singular functions?
2018-02-23 13:18:57	larsks	E.g., if you need sub-millisecond timing to control a bunch of servos, the arduino is going to be much more useful.
2018-02-23 13:18:58	Habbie	argoneus, you turn it on, your code runs
2018-02-23 13:19:00	argoneus	o
2018-02-23 13:19:01	Habbie	also that
2018-02-23 13:19:08	Habbie	linux on a pi cannot do accurate timing things
2018-02-23 13:19:16	argoneus	so for general experimentation with various sensors and as a home server
2018-02-23 13:19:19	argoneus	a pi is much better
2018-02-23 13:19:33	larsks	argoneus: and the pi doesn't have any analog inputs, which means that you can't use some sensors without help.
2018-02-23 13:19:43	argoneus	hmm
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2018-02-23 13:19:55	larsks	argoneus: it really depends on what you're trying to do.
2018-02-23 13:20:02	red9	Sure you can do accurate timing on Raspberry Pi. Shut of task switching + interrupts. Disable cache. And you'r in.
2018-02-23 13:20:21	larsks	I like micropython on an esp8266 for sensor experiments :)
2018-02-23 13:20:27	argoneus	my end goal for now is a display with various informations about the room it's in
2018-02-23 13:20:31	argoneus	but at the same time I want to run irc on it
2018-02-23 13:20:32	argoneus	so...
2018-02-23 13:20:39	Habbie	larsks, me too
2018-02-23 13:20:39	red9	Speculative instruction processing is mess though.
2018-02-23 13:20:48	Habbie	larsks, i'm more of a lua person but nodemcu is not great
2018-02-23 13:20:59	argoneus	I guess a pi then is a computer which happens to have more situational pins than a regular PC
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2018-02-23 13:21:18	Habbie	argoneus, that's accurate
2018-02-23 13:21:19	argoneus	(also different architecture)
2018-02-23 13:21:37	Habbie	well, ARM is slowly coming to PCs ;)
2018-02-23 13:21:57	JimBuntu	argoneus, with the Pi, they are intended for your use... whereas with normal computers they are already used for various things... when we had serial and parallel ports and the like, you could use those for this kind of task, although not 100% the same
2018-02-23 13:22:03	argoneus	okay, seems like that's what I do then since I don't have a clear goal
2018-02-23 13:22:04	red9	"Yoo PC, you will be ARM, resistance is futile" ;)
2018-02-23 13:22:11	Habbie	i did use parallel like gpio in the nineties
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2018-02-23 13:22:28	JimBuntu	Habbie, so did I Habbie
2018-02-23 13:22:34	Habbie	argoneus, i experiment on the pi and then build on an esp8266
2018-02-23 13:22:37	red9	me too (AOL-tm)
2018-02-23 13:22:41	Habbie	argoneus, many people experiment on pi and then build on arduino, indeed
2018-02-23 13:23:02	JimBuntu	I also made a few custom ISA cards
2018-02-23 13:23:09	argoneus	also for some reason the college project should be written in Forth
2018-02-23 13:23:13	argoneus	not sure why, when python exists
2018-02-23 13:23:23	Habbie	i did like forth
2018-02-23 13:24:02	red9	The thing is that GPIO on a PC might be pushed to say 320 kHz and can't change direction often due to bad BIOS etc. While a Raspberry can push like 5500 kHz on GPIO. It makes a lot of difference.
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2018-02-23 13:24:30	JimBuntu	red9, it does. Use the right tool for the job :-)
2018-02-23 13:24:58	red9	Hard when there was no Pi..
2018-02-23 13:25:55	argoneus	so chances are
2018-02-23 13:26:07	argoneus	that those "smart" microwaves and whatnot that you can control via wifi
2018-02-23 13:26:11	argoneus	just have some arduino inside them?
2018-02-23 13:26:15	argoneus	or something similar
2018-02-23 13:26:17	Habbie	yes
2018-02-23 13:26:32	red9	Speaking of PC. Why couldn't they implemented the serial port using Intel 8237 DMA single mode requests?
2018-02-23 13:26:57	gordonDrogon	hindsight is a great thing...
2018-02-23 13:27:28	red9	gordonDrogon, well I did speak about it when it was a current issue.
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2018-02-23 13:27:55	red9	x86-PC is pile of crap really.
2018-02-23 13:29:09	JimBuntu	red9, but everything is based on what was learned yester-year
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2018-02-23 13:29:35	red9	It's called proactive vs reactive thinking.
2018-02-23 13:30:32	gordonDrogon	also cost and time to market.
2018-02-23 13:30:46	JimBuntu	products also have to be built to a price-point, even when it's a super-high price point... plus there are time constraints. Sure, mistakes are still made and some are still lazy, but that's the price we pay for a non-science only driven economy and civilization
2018-02-23 13:30:52	argoneus	actually, hm
2018-02-23 13:30:57	red9	It would taken them 2 days to just do-it.
2018-02-23 13:30:59	argoneus	even if I use raspbian and start it headless
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2018-02-23 13:31:03	argoneus	don't I need to find its IP somehow?
2018-02-23 13:31:22	gordonDrogon	argoneus, yes you do.
2018-02-23 13:31:30	argoneus	at home I can probably just discover it somehow
2018-02-23 13:31:33	argoneus	in my router
2018-02-23 13:31:35	gordonDrogon	argoneus, you ask your router/dhcp server for the information.
2018-02-23 13:31:40	mjh	hello. I would like to have a battery backup to gracefully shutdown my pi when it is disconnected from power supply. I have seen a few products and wonder if anyone has had experience doing this.
2018-02-23 13:31:41	argoneus	but what if I go to show my project to the uni
2018-02-23 13:31:45	Habbie	or use raspberrypi.local if your client supports avahi/mdns
2018-02-23 13:31:49	argoneus	I guess I can set up bluetooth from my laptop
2018-02-23 13:31:51	argoneus	or something
2018-02-23 13:31:52	Habbie	or nmap (your uni may not like that)
2018-02-23 13:31:55	JimBuntu	argoneus, yes... you could have your router always assign it the same one based on the MAC or you could go based on the hostname
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2018-02-23 13:32:10	gordonDrogon	mjh, I built my own based in the Adafruit powerboost 1000c and a 2000mAh LiPO...
2018-02-23 13:32:14	Habbie	when i take my ESP boards to school i let them announce their IP over MQTT to my VM in 'the cloud'
2018-02-23 13:32:25	red9	argoneus, ping -i 5 <nice_ip_of_yours> in the startup script like rc.local
2018-02-23 13:32:30	JimBuntu	That works too... or DDNS... or many ways
2018-02-23 13:32:31	mjh	thanks, will have a look at those.
2018-02-23 13:32:45	argoneus	ohh, I see
2018-02-23 13:33:02	red9	Or UDP packets to some IP. Which eliminates the need for root privilidge.
2018-02-23 13:33:19	JimBuntu	argoneus,  another cool method may be to have your raspi join a VPN so long as it can gain internet access... then you can always access it from the VPN ... AND... you will have that added layer of security
2018-02-23 13:33:27	Habbie	JimBuntu, that is a nice one, yes
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2018-02-23 13:33:53	argoneus	any way to pair it with an existing device easily? like a laptop
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2018-02-23 13:34:03	argoneus	so I have bash even without any internet
2018-02-23 13:34:14	Habbie	argoneus, just connect them with an ethernet cable to eachother
2018-02-23 13:34:17	Habbie	argoneus, run a dhcp server on the laptop
2018-02-23 13:34:18	Habbie	argoneus, done
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2018-02-23 13:34:20	argoneus	...
2018-02-23 13:34:22	argoneus	I'm retarded
2018-02-23 13:34:27	Habbie	stop using that word
2018-02-23 13:34:28	Habbie	i'm serious
2018-02-23 13:34:29	argoneus	sorry I said I won't use th--
2018-02-23 13:34:31	argoneus	aaa
2018-02-23 13:35:30	red9	"arp -na" another trick.
2018-02-23 13:36:10	JimBuntu	argoneus, your deficiency probably isn't one based on ability... it's probably simply that you haven't been immersed in all of this... you simply aren't aware of what you aren't aware of... such as direct-connections via cable. No worries, this is very common.
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2018-02-23 13:36:46	red9	Together with:  perl -e 'for($i=0; $i<=254; $i++){ system(sprintf("ping 192.168.1.%d >>/tmp/pings.txt &",$i)); }'
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2018-02-23 13:36:54	JimBuntu	argoneus, be happy when you discover something that's new to you, it means you have a whole new path of learning to venture down and explore!
2018-02-23 13:37:05	Habbie	red9, might as well skip directly to nmap then
2018-02-23 13:37:19	red9	yeah
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2018-02-23 13:38:07	 *	JimBuntu has nmap'd a rather large area before looking for a server that went rogue and was no longer using DDNS... found it too!
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2018-02-23 13:40:41	argoneus	ah
2018-02-23 13:40:52	argoneus	seems like I can easily just share a network connection from windows too
2018-02-23 13:41:01	argoneus	then I connect the rpi to my laptop and find the ip from my laptop
2018-02-23 13:41:04	argoneus	and then I can ssh?
2018-02-23 13:41:28	larsks	Sure, that should work.
2018-02-23 13:41:29	argoneus	basically turn my laptop into a dhcp-available router
2018-02-23 13:41:35	Habbie	correct
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2018-02-23 13:41:43	argoneus	neat!
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2018-02-23 13:44:09	red9	Even "The Matrix" (trinity) shows how to use nmap ;)
2018-02-23 13:44:41	ShorTie	don't forget to turn it off if you plug into a real network
2018-02-23 13:45:28	argoneus	I want to believe windows is smart enough not to destroy everytihng
2018-02-23 13:45:42	JimBuntu	argoneus, that could be a mistake
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2018-02-23 13:46:41	argoneus	but yeah, the more I read about it, various articles and discussions
2018-02-23 13:46:45	ShorTie	don't assume anything
2018-02-23 13:46:49	argoneus	seems like I'm scared of things that aren't really problems wew
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2018-02-23 13:46:53	argoneus	and that it's actually fairly easy?
2018-02-23 13:47:46	JimBuntu	argoneus, if you are going to have SSH enabled... a couple quick things I suggest... change your port from 22 to something else, less bots are attacking odd ports than 22... also, key only logins, no password based login. At the bare minimum, this will reduce the size of your uath.log
2018-02-23 13:48:12	larsks	argoneus: I agree with JimBuntu re: key based logins, but don't think changing the ports get you anything but extra work.
2018-02-23 13:48:20	larsks	But! Opinions differ :)
2018-02-23 13:48:36	shauno	he has a fair assessment of changing ports.  it cuts your log noise down some
2018-02-23 13:48:41	ShorTie	only need to change ssh port if connecting to outside world
2018-02-23 13:48:56	ShorTie	then port forwarding at the router is easiest
2018-02-23 13:49:14	mjh	prob best to keep ssh below 1024 if you do change it.
2018-02-23 13:49:57	JimBuntu	ShorTie, is right... not always needed. Changing the port in general simply means you don't have to worry about where you are connected... example, take it to school and leave port 22 open... someone may easily scan for simply that port (school admins/etc)... where as if you are on some wild port, less likely to be "found"
2018-02-23 13:50:41	JimBuntu	Still totally exposed as someone can scan all ports, it simply takes more resources and time, which are both pretty cheap now-a-days
2018-02-23 13:50:59	JimBuntu	It's kinda like... you lock your window, even though it's made out of glass.
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2018-02-23 13:52:46	argoneus	https://www.amazon.com/Raspberry-Essentials-Kit-board-Connectivity/dp/B01LWVVMUI is this what I want then?
2018-02-23 13:52:59	argoneus	and then the breadboards, cables etc. from some electronics shop
2018-02-23 13:54:07	ShorTie	i like a chromebook power supply, 5.25v@3amps
2018-02-23 13:54:21	larsks	argoneus: That's a fine starter kit.  As someone mentioned earlier, places like aliexpress or banggood or ebay, etc, will be good sources of basic electronic parts.
2018-02-23 13:54:28	argoneus	oki
2018-02-23 13:54:31	ShorTie	optional Lovemypi micro-usb switch is nice too...
2018-02-23 13:54:54	argoneus	hm, I wonder
2018-02-23 13:54:58	larsks	argoneus: also, something like https://www.adafruit.com/product/954 is handy to have around if you need to debug networking issues (it allows you to log in on the Pi's serial console)
2018-02-23 13:55:02	argoneus	it ships to my country but...
2018-02-23 13:55:10	argoneus	what if it comes with US plugs
2018-02-23 13:55:28	larsks	argoneus: any usb power supply providing 2.5A or better would be just fine.
2018-02-23 13:55:37	larsks	You could just buy the parts in that kit separately.
2018-02-23 13:55:37	JimBuntu	argoneus, That's an easy one, move to the U.S. ;-D
2018-02-23 13:55:41	argoneus	oh
2018-02-23 13:55:42	argoneus	wait
2018-02-23 13:55:47	argoneus	I can probably just use my phone charger with USB then?
2018-02-23 13:55:57	larsks	argoneus: maaaaybe.  Checkout the output rating on it.
2018-02-23 13:56:44	ShorTie	you can use a phone charger, but be on the look out for the lighting bolt
2018-02-23 13:57:02	argoneus	wwe
2018-02-23 13:57:04	ShorTie	ie: no good power supply
2018-02-23 13:57:04	argoneus	wew
2018-02-23 13:57:29	JimBuntu	argoneus, it depends on which RasPi you get... but either way, always aim for 50% more output current capability than what the device is stated to require... startup power requirements and surges can be higher than the normally posted max current draw values.
2018-02-23 13:57:44	ShorTie	that extra .25 volts makes a big difference
2018-02-23 13:58:18	JimBuntu	If I remember, USB specs are 4.75V to 5.25V. Anything outside of that is outside of spec.
2018-02-23 13:58:25	argoneus	well
2018-02-23 13:58:36	argoneus	this kit costs like $120 in my country
2018-02-23 13:58:41	ShorTie	4.75 is not enough for a pi
2018-02-23 13:58:43	argoneus	so even if it has the wrong power charger, it should still be worth it?
2018-02-23 13:58:51	argoneus	since I can just buy a new one
2018-02-23 13:59:05	JimBuntu	ShorTie, than the Pi's power input is out of spec. I'm not faulting it, simply saying...
2018-02-23 13:59:49	argoneus	https://www.amazon.de/Globmall-Raspberry-Starter-Superior-Netzteil/dp/B073S51XSS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519394366&sr=8-1&keywords=raspberry+pi+32gb specifically this
2018-02-23 13:59:53	larsks	argoneus: if it's cheaper than just buying the pi + case + sd card + heatsinks separately, sure.
2018-02-23 14:00:06	argoneus	80 eur vs 70 usd
2018-02-23 14:00:20	argoneus	($98)
2018-02-23 14:00:26	ShorTie	4.75v from a lab grade power supply will work fine, from a phone charger not so
2018-02-23 14:01:29	ShorTie	phone chargers are not built to handle high current peaks
2018-02-23 14:01:35	ShorTie	voltage will fall
2018-02-23 14:01:53	ShorTie	thus corrupting the sdcard
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2018-02-23 14:04:47	JimBuntu	ShorTie, I agree and concede that many "phone" chargers are junk power supplies... noisy and made from the cheapest parts and designs they could find... some are OK... but I still prefer to charge my phones/etc from specifically designed USB power bricks, the high output ones with lots of ports.
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2018-02-23 14:05:40	shauno	I actually detest these "high output, lots of ports" ones, as they're almost always a lie :)
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2018-02-23 14:06:36	JimBuntu	shauno, simply need to stick to good brands and no gimmicks... at least it has worked for me so far. I went as low as the 4 port powered hubs and couldn't find a really good one, that's when I started going with 60W plus models.
2018-02-23 14:07:09	JimBuntu	I don't bother with anything that only does 2.1A/port as a rating.
2018-02-23 14:07:44	larsks	That said, I'm using a couple of http://a.co/5r3lCYF to power 2 pis and some micropython boards.
2018-02-23 14:08:06	shauno	I found it surprisingly difficult to find anything that could actualy give you 2A on every port
2018-02-23 14:09:16	JimBuntu	See, that one doesn't list it's per port output. I prefer ones that say 2.4A+ per port, so that I know it can handle the surges and someone knew to post it.
2018-02-23 14:09:33	JimBuntu	There are even some Anker ones like that.
2018-02-23 14:09:50	larsks	Yeah.
2018-02-23 14:10:57	JimBuntu	I bought some that I think were Amazon Basics ones... what a joke, I never could get them to show more than about 500ma/port... supposed to be 2.1A... and they don't even work as chargers if not connected to a computer, smh
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2018-02-23 14:15:08	Lartza	JimBuntu, 2.1A per port or whole device? :P
2018-02-23 14:15:36	Lartza	Supposed to be that is, since there are chargers that do exactly that, supply a smaller current per port but each port has their guaranteed current
2018-02-23 14:16:02	JimBuntu	Lartza, per port
2018-02-23 14:16:04	argoneus	https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B073S51XSS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2OWKOSL83JEK2&psc=1 do you think this is the same one?
2018-02-23 14:16:14	Lartza	Well that sounds like a scam then
2018-02-23 14:16:50	Lartza	argoneus, Same as what?
2018-02-23 14:17:09	argoneus	https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LWVVMUI/ref=ox_sc_mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AHALS71WJO58T this one
2018-02-23 14:17:20	shauno	I gotta admit, most of these kits look like junk
2018-02-23 14:17:24	argoneus	since shipping from the american amazon is $35
2018-02-23 14:17:27	Lartza	Well no, not identical
2018-02-23 14:17:30	Lartza	But does that matter?
2018-02-23 14:17:42	argoneus	I don't want to order junk, like shauno says
2018-02-23 14:17:51	shauno	I mean, compare to https://thepihut.com/collections/raspberry-pi-kits-and-bundles/products/raspberry-pi-3-starter-kit
2018-02-23 14:17:57	JimBuntu	Lartza, well... if you want to charge a variety of devices, all in their high-current charge mode... you need to be able to supply the high current demand. If you run the math, you can generally find the companies that are lying... i.e. 60W @ 6 ports... 5V*6ports*2.1A > 60W
2018-02-23 14:18:28	Lartza	shauno, That looks less junk? How?
2018-02-23 14:18:39	shauno	that's cheaper than any of the ones you've listed *60gbp+4gbp shipping to eu is 72eur).  it gives up silly stuff like pointless heatsinks, in return for a good quality psu
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2018-02-23 14:19:44	argoneus	hmm
2018-02-23 14:19:48	argoneus	http://rpishop.cz/sady-s-rpi-3/298-raspberry-pi-3-vyhodna-sada-rpi3-8gb-msd-karta-25a-zdroj-krabicka.html well this is in a czech shop
2018-02-23 14:19:53	argoneus	seems to be the official reseller in my country
2018-02-23 14:19:54	Lartza	You can't really tell the PSU isn't good quality in the others though
2018-02-23 14:20:01	argoneus	I guess that's the one you linked?
2018-02-23 14:22:44	shauno	I tend to rule out anything that bundles heatsinks in a kit.  it's a good sign that the contents are there to bolster the feelgood, not the value/utility
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2018-02-23 14:24:09	argoneus	I guess I'll get it from the official reseller then
2018-02-23 14:24:41	argoneus	the only choice is between the "official" case and a Onenine case, any idea?
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2018-02-23 14:25:41	gordonDrogon	argoneus, not fancy the coupé case then?
2018-02-23 14:25:44	ShorTie	i bolt mine down to a piece of 3" angle iron
2018-02-23 14:25:58	argoneus	I mean, if they're any functionally different
2018-02-23 14:26:01	argoneus	by how they expose the ports and whatnot
2018-02-23 14:26:03	ShorTie	s/angle/channel/
2018-02-23 14:26:03	larsks	I TIE MINE TO A LARGE ROCK USING HANDMADE LEATHER THONGS.
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2018-02-23 14:27:02	strixdio	^lol
2018-02-23 14:27:26	argoneus	oh also
2018-02-23 14:27:29	argoneus	2.5A PSU vs 3A
2018-02-23 14:27:39	ShorTie	find any old router and screw it to the top, 2 problems solved, hehe.
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2018-02-23 14:40:09	leewdch	hello. is it possible linking a sata drive to a raspberry pi 3 in a non-USB way? I'm looking for faster ways to access data on my drives
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2018-02-23 14:40:40	Lartza	leewdch, USB is fastest
2018-02-23 14:41:19	leewdch	I see, no reason to buy an adapter then or using the pin on the board instead
2018-02-23 14:41:54	Lartza	RPi has no SATA interface, almost none of the ARM boards have but if you want a fast disk connection you should find one
2018-02-23 14:42:25	leewdch	well actually I just want to use my sata drives since the capacity/cost is more convenient
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2018-02-23 14:42:35	leewdch	sata speed was a +
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2018-02-23 15:03:25	red9	There's S-ATA <--> USB adapters.
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2018-02-23 15:04:14	Alynna	the beaglebone black has one but its just an onboard sata to usb adapter
2018-02-23 15:04:50	Alynna	if you can't connect it to at least USB3 you might as well forget about it
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2018-02-23 15:08:41	BurtyB	depends what you're trying to do tbh
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2018-02-23 15:13:53	argoneus	oh, is lighting a LED really as easy as just telling raspi "activate pin 5"?
2018-02-23 15:14:00	Habbie	if connected right, yes
2018-02-23 15:14:03	argoneus	and it will make current flow through the pin at 3.3V
2018-02-23 15:14:16	argoneus	I guess I need to look at my led
2018-02-23 15:14:18	Habbie	do put a resistor in between
2018-02-23 15:14:20	argoneus	and calculate the resistance
2018-02-23 15:14:36	argoneus	so if I have a 1.8V LED at 30mA
2018-02-23 15:14:46	argoneus	I need a 1.8/30 ohm resistor rounded up?
2018-02-23 15:14:51	argoneus	er
2018-02-23 15:14:53	argoneus	1.5/30
2018-02-23 15:14:56	argoneus	3.3-1.8
2018-02-23 15:15:05	Habbie	that's not how that works
2018-02-23 15:15:10	argoneus	oh
2018-02-23 15:15:20	Habbie	if you need to go from 3.3 to 1.8 you need two resistors at least
2018-02-23 15:15:22	argoneus	I'd read I just need to subtract the voltage drop
2018-02-23 15:15:30	Habbie	or that i think, yes
2018-02-23 15:15:51	argoneus	so I'd need a 50 ohm resistor...?
2018-02-23 15:15:59	Habbie	that sounds extremely unlikely
2018-02-23 15:16:10	argoneus	hmm
2018-02-23 15:16:39	Habbie	some suggestions here https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/3980/is-it-possible-to-connect-an-led-directly-to-the-gpio-of-the-pi
2018-02-23 15:16:42	argoneus	http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/led-resistor-calculator I just used this
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2018-02-23 15:17:01	BurtyB	argoneus, google led resistor calculator and you'll find some that make it easy
2018-02-23 15:17:10	Habbie	oh 30mA
2018-02-23 15:17:15	Habbie	you cannot draw 30mA from the pi
2018-02-23 15:17:56	Habbie	turns out your calculation was correct but you cannot use it with the pi
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2018-02-23 15:19:07	mr_booler	Noob here; I'm looking to run a couple of Pi Zeros off of a battery acting as "deeply embedded".  That is, I only need them for a few seconds every few hours, but I need them in some hard to reach places with no power easily available.
2018-02-23 15:19:14	mr_booler	Once upon a time, I read a paper about devices that sleep for days at a time, then wake up for 1-2 seconds to do their business and transmit before sleeping again.  Have folks done details like this?  Where might be an online resource detailing some steps I need to take?
2018-02-23 15:19:33	Habbie	argoneus, but i think if you put a few hundred ohms in line, the led will in fact work, just not as bright
2018-02-23 15:19:45	argoneus	30mA is too little?
2018-02-23 15:19:48	argoneus	or too much for pi
2018-02-23 15:19:50	Habbie	too much
2018-02-23 15:19:54	Habbie	assume the limit per pin is 8
2018-02-23 15:20:02	argoneus	"a maximum of 16 mA"
2018-02-23 15:20:03	argoneus	ah I see
2018-02-23 15:20:13	argoneus	so if I want a lower current at the same voltage...
2018-02-23 15:20:17	argoneus	I need a bigger resistor!
2018-02-23 15:20:25	Habbie	yes
2018-02-23 15:20:26	argoneus	(and a different LED)
2018-02-23 15:20:48	Habbie	also note there is a total limit as well
2018-02-23 15:20:53	Habbie	you cannot draw 8/16 mA from all pins at the same time
2018-02-23 15:21:02	shauno	mr_booler: someone in here was doing something similar, the name escapes me right now.  but the main catch on the pi is there is no sleep state.  So you can't wake up for "1-2 seconds", you need a full boot sequence, do your task, then shutdown  (and some external hardware to actually effect poweroff, otherwise the Pi idles at a 'halted but powered' state, like when win95 would tell you "it is now
2018-02-23 15:21:08	shauno	safe to turn off your computer")
2018-02-23 15:21:22	Nauti	Have anyone worked with soil moisture sensors and know how long the cables can be without me having to worry about them giving inaccurate values? Maybe I can solve it by having the same lenght of every cable between pots and RPi, even if the pot is close so I get an equal value of every reading. Ugly but easy solution I guess, but if I don't have to I don't want to.
2018-02-23 15:21:41	mr_booler	shauno: fantastic reminder of that win95 auburn text on black screen.
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2018-02-23 15:21:54	shauno	you're welcome.  now we can both feel old :)
2018-02-23 15:21:59	Nauti	These kind of sensors: https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-pcs-Soil-Humidity-Hygrometer-Moisture-Detection-Sensor-Module-for-Arduino-U6V6/302394955521?epid=6006218701&hash=item466824d701:g:xAgAAOSwu9ZZeICb
2018-02-23 15:22:04	mr_booler	shauno: okay ... a full boot could work as well, just perhaps not as ideal.
2018-02-23 15:23:32	argoneus	Habbie: well I found a LED graded at 2.4V / 10mA
2018-02-23 15:23:35	argoneus	which gives me 90 ohms
2018-02-23 15:23:51	argoneus	does that sound right
2018-02-23 15:24:05	argoneus	so I need to buy the next highest resistor, probably 100 ohm
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2018-02-23 15:24:29	Habbie	just buy a pack of assorted resistors
2018-02-23 15:24:57	mr_booler	shauno: how about mesh networking?  Say I wanted to run a string of these across my yard, so that only one or two are in range of my wifi.  Have folks done that with Pi/Zero?
2018-02-23 15:25:02	argoneus	still wondering just how much current there is in the 5V line that it needs a 10k pull up resistor
2018-02-23 15:25:03	Habbie	as for if that sounds right, i think that calculator looks fine, yes
2018-02-23 15:25:10	Habbie	5V?
2018-02-23 15:25:13	Habbie	why are we talking about 5V?
2018-02-23 15:25:14	argoneus	er
2018-02-23 15:25:15	argoneus	3.3V
2018-02-23 15:25:23	argoneus	for the thermosensor
2018-02-23 15:25:25	shauno	Nauti: I'm not sure I'd fight with trying to get the same signal out of each.  I'd either put all 5 in the same pot, and twiddle the pots until they're all alarming at about the same point.  or put them all in the same pot, record a starting value from each sensor, and alarm on ±% from that
2018-02-23 15:25:27	argoneus	10k ohms seems like a toooon
2018-02-23 15:25:30	Habbie	it is a ton
2018-02-23 15:25:36	Habbie	because the unresisted load needs to win from it
2018-02-23 15:25:42	Habbie	these are different resistor uses
2018-02-23 15:25:47	Habbie	that are useless to compare to eachother
2018-02-23 15:25:53	argoneus	wouldn't a 1 mil ohm resistor work just as well?
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2018-02-23 15:25:58	Habbie	yes, a 'pullup resistor' and a 'current limiting resistor' are the exact same physical thing
2018-02-23 15:26:07	Habbie	but because of the purpose you use them for, the numbers are also different
2018-02-23 15:26:27	Habbie	well, too high and it becomes almost 'not connected'
2018-02-23 15:26:30	argoneus	...oh
2018-02-23 15:27:14	Habbie	i understand that if a cable is long, for example, you want a smaller (stronger) pullup
2018-02-23 15:27:17	Habbie	because the cable also has resistance
2018-02-23 15:27:18	Habbie	etc.
2018-02-23 15:27:26	Habbie	but i couldn't tell you the right number for a specific situation
2018-02-23 15:27:32	shauno	mr_booler: ah, it was 'redrabbit' who was playing with this, but it doesn't look like he's here right now.  last I heard he was trying to string esp8266's as repeaters and the odd raspberry pi across half a forest  lol
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2018-02-23 15:28:50	argoneus	it still boggles my mind
2018-02-23 15:28:55	Habbie	argoneus, what does?
2018-02-23 15:28:56	argoneus	that you can have the resistor on either end of the LED
2018-02-23 15:29:00	Habbie	ah :)
2018-02-23 15:29:04	argoneus	because current flowing is magic
2018-02-23 15:29:10	Habbie	i recognise this ;)
2018-02-23 15:29:39	argoneus	but I guess for the sake of my sanity I'll assume it only goes + to -
2018-02-23 15:29:43	argoneus	and put it "in front" of the LED
2018-02-23 15:29:44	Habbie	so
2018-02-23 15:29:47	mr_booler	shauno: redrabbit.  Perhaps blog name to google or something.  Thanks!
2018-02-23 15:29:49	Habbie	it goes from - to +
2018-02-23 15:29:52	Habbie	hope that helps
2018-02-23 15:29:59	argoneus	...uh
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2018-02-23 15:30:10	argoneus	._.
2018-02-23 15:30:13	argoneus	r-really
2018-02-23 15:30:27	argoneus	so the resistor should actually be on the ground
2018-02-23 15:30:31	shauno	it doesn't really matter which way it's going.  the resistance (in series) is the sum of all in its path
2018-02-23 15:30:42	Habbie	argoneus, no, it actually still does not matter
2018-02-23 15:30:50	argoneus	my head hurts
2018-02-23 15:31:03	Habbie	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current
2018-02-23 15:31:05	Habbie	this may or may not help
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2018-02-23 15:31:49	argoneus	...so the current is constant throughout the whole circuit no matter where the resistors are?
2018-02-23 15:31:51	shauno	okay, take a hose.  it's hooked up to a tap with enough pressure to provide 100 litres a second.  so you expect 100 litres a second to come out the other end
2018-02-23 15:32:02	shauno	then stand on the hose to constrict it, so only 10 litres per second come out the other end
2018-02-23 15:32:22	shauno	you can measure the flow at any point on that hose, and it'll be 10 litres per second.  it doesn't matter if you measure before or after your foot
2018-02-23 15:32:42	Nauti	shauno: Not using the digital output but the analog through an ADC. Sorry, I tend to forget important information :)
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2018-02-23 15:32:53	argoneus	hmm...
2018-02-23 15:32:57	argoneus	I suppose that makes sense
2018-02-23 15:32:59	shauno	it can't be 100 litres per second before your foot and 10 litres a seocnd after, because that means 90 litres per second are disappear into the ether
2018-02-23 15:33:08	argoneus	it can't be 100l before and 10l after the foot, because, where would the other 90l go?
2018-02-23 15:33:21	argoneus	oops
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2018-02-23 15:33:24	shauno	;)
2018-02-23 15:34:06	mk-fg	Everything can be adequately explained as a series of tubes :)
2018-02-23 15:34:11	shauno	(I love water analogies for electronics, because it makes the people who actually understand the physics, die inside)
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2018-02-23 15:34:30	Habbie	haha
2018-02-23 15:34:54	shauno	and we all know the easiest way to get people to help you, is to be so wrong as to offend their sensibilities
2018-02-23 15:35:12	argoneus	also re resistance
2018-02-23 15:35:22	argoneus	I suppose when in doubt, start with high resistances and reduce until the gadget works, right
2018-02-23 15:35:28	argoneus	at least the "lazy" solution
2018-02-23 15:35:31	Habbie	in general, yes
2018-02-23 15:35:36	Habbie	not always
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2018-02-23 15:36:00	Habbie	at least my rc car acts very weird when i PWM the motor ;)
2018-02-23 15:36:08	shauno	I start with whatever I can find on my desk, and add more if things start to smell funny.  this is not advice.
2018-02-23 15:36:17	Habbie	shauno, this is also sometimes what i do
2018-02-23 15:36:20	argoneus	I remember when I was a kid my parents bought me one of those electronic play kit things
2018-02-23 15:36:28	argoneus	the first thing I did with it was connect + to -, it didn't last long
2018-02-23 15:36:32	Habbie	those play kit things have resistors hidden everywhere
2018-02-23 15:36:37	Habbie	to reduce your chance of messing up
2018-02-23 15:36:54	argoneus	it actually broke the thing somehow
2018-02-23 15:36:55	argoneus	;;
2018-02-23 15:37:09	Habbie	yes
2018-02-23 15:37:16	Habbie	i have also done this to things as a kid
2018-02-23 15:37:18	Habbie	and then later, again, as an adult
2018-02-23 15:37:23	Habbie	recently even
2018-02-23 15:38:24	argoneus	rip
2018-02-23 15:38:51	shauno	this is half the point of the pi for me.  it's not just that it's small, or has gpio, or what not.  it's cheap enough that you can break it without crying.  so much easier to learn from your mistakes, when you don't have to save up for months for your next mistake
2018-02-23 15:39:25	argoneus	these LEDs have some... really long wires
2018-02-23 15:39:28	argoneus	I hope you can bend them
2018-02-23 15:39:31	mk-fg	And to be fair, it's harder to break than many other boards
2018-02-23 15:40:02	shauno	it's surprisingly forgiving.  I have a pi1 that I always nominate as my victim, because it's the one that'll be least missed.  I've still got it ..
2018-02-23 15:40:30	Habbie	yes
2018-02-23 15:40:33	Habbie	i haven't managed to destroy a pi yet
2018-02-23 15:40:37	Habbie	many ESPs but no pi
2018-02-23 15:40:46	Habbie	i have managed to -reboot- many a pi accidentally ;)
2018-02-23 15:40:55	shauno	(again, this isn't advice  hehe)
2018-02-23 15:40:59	Habbie	definitely not
2018-02-23 15:41:06	Habbie	i killed one ESP with a multimeter
2018-02-23 15:41:11	argoneus	(also, why do people say "if you don't use a resistor there'll be infinite current"?)
2018-02-23 15:41:14	Habbie	touched one multimeter pin to both 3v3 and gnd
2018-02-23 15:41:14	argoneus	I mean
2018-02-23 15:41:15	Habbie	'the end'
2018-02-23 15:41:21	argoneus	I get you can't divide by 0 but that sounds wrong
2018-02-23 15:41:34	Habbie	argoneus, the point of infinite is that it's more than your pi/powersupply are willing to give you
2018-02-23 15:41:42	Habbie	argoneus, and thus either a fuse will pop or things will literally go up in smoke
2018-02-23 15:41:52	Habbie	argoneus, 'nothing is limiting it' so something has got to give
2018-02-23 15:42:13	argoneus	so when a part says it's graded for 3-5V, does that still mean I need a resistor?
2018-02-23 15:42:19	argoneus	or does that mean the part inside itself has a resistor already
2018-02-23 15:42:24	Habbie	it depends
2018-02-23 15:42:29	shauno	yeah.  your circuit may be infinite, but your supply isn't
2018-02-23 15:42:32	Habbie	many things still need a resistor
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2018-02-23 15:42:44	argoneus	so even if it says "needs 5V" and I use a 5V supply
2018-02-23 15:42:48	argoneus	I might still need one?
2018-02-23 15:42:49	argoneus	uh oh
2018-02-23 15:42:50	Habbie	you might
2018-02-23 15:42:53	Habbie	read the data sheet
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2018-02-23 15:43:22	Nauti	shauno: I don't think there would be any issues while using digital output, since the voltage drop wouldn't be large enough not to register as high on the GPIO pin, but it might be noticable in analog readings
2018-02-23 15:43:23	Habbie	i'm not sure i'm right about that in fact
2018-02-23 15:43:26	Habbie	but always read the data sheet
2018-02-23 15:43:47	Nauti	But I just don't know, just speculating. I'd have to measure the voltage drop in the cable I guess or just calculate the restistance I guess
2018-02-23 15:43:59	shauno	Nauti: that's what I meant with the second option I think.  to take a known-equal reading at each sensor, and record their values
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2018-02-23 15:44:11	argoneus	well, the dht sheet doesn't mention any resistors
2018-02-23 15:44:15	argoneus	so I guess it's fine
2018-02-23 15:44:18	shauno	so put them all in the same pot, record what each sensor reports, and take that as the zero point for each sensor
2018-02-23 15:44:20	argoneus	other than the pull up one
2018-02-23 15:44:25	Habbie	dht is well documented, yes
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2018-02-23 15:44:57	Nauti	The DHT sensors need a 10k resistor between data and VCC don't they? I thought it was mentioned in the sheet
2018-02-23 15:45:10	shauno	basically calibrate each sensor instead of trying to force them all to be equal
2018-02-23 15:45:15	Nauti	I remember trying mine without and I didn't get any relevant readings until I connected the pull-up
2018-02-23 15:45:21	argoneus	yes
2018-02-23 15:45:29	argoneus	but I meant "if you don't use a resistor it will explode"
2018-02-23 15:45:48	red9	Nauti, my practical experience is they don't. But according to datasheet they do.
2018-02-23 15:45:51	Habbie	Nauti, yes, to prevent the signal from floating
2018-02-23 15:46:00	Habbie	red9, maybe you enabled the pullup on your pi/mcu end?
2018-02-23 15:46:01	Nauti	shauno: yeah but you can't calibrate for analog. The potentiometer only affects the threshhold for digital output and I'm using the analog output. But I guess I could just do it that way and have different threhshold values for each sensor
2018-02-23 15:46:10	Habbie	red9, also i got away for two weeks when i started with electronics without doing pullups
2018-02-23 15:46:11	Nauti	More work and it feels a bit messy
2018-02-23 15:46:13	Habbie	red9, then suddenly nothing worked
2018-02-23 15:46:27	Nauti	I think I'd rather just compensate for the cable length by adding a resistance on the shorter cables
2018-02-23 15:46:57	Nauti	I could add a rheostat and have all the sensors in the air and just adjust so they give the same reading maybe
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2018-02-23 15:48:19	argoneus	also damn this is cheap
2018-02-23 15:48:24	shauno	just stick a small pot at the receiving end of each sensor?  I mean basically the same thing but in hardware
2018-02-23 15:48:27	argoneus	480 copper resistors for $8
2018-02-23 15:48:30	argoneus	wtf
2018-02-23 15:48:42	argoneus	I guess it's just a piece of metal
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2018-02-23 15:49:26	shauno	resistors are insanely cheap.  you're generally paying for them to separate them more than anything else
2018-02-23 15:51:33	shauno	it always amuses me when farnell price them to three decimal places though
2018-02-23 15:51:39	zleap	i find the isse with buying big packs of resistors is you never use some of them
2018-02-23 15:51:54	zleap	i tend to use more 270ohm 330ohm  and perhaps 470ohm than anything else
2018-02-23 15:52:29	shauno	I tend to use 1k, 10k and 1M more than anything else :)
2018-02-23 15:52:34	zleap	yeah
2018-02-23 15:52:55	zleap	i find the 330ohm useful on the pi between pi gpio and led's
2018-02-23 15:53:22	shauno	buy an assorted pack, and then when you find out you have a couple of go-to's, buy them by the thousand.  and then never need resistors ever again  lol
2018-02-23 15:53:23	zleap	270 too, but i have a 3 led traffic light, i am sure the yellow is less current so needs a higher value resistor
2018-02-23 15:53:32	Nauti	I grab all my resistors from old discarded electronic gadgets in ther garbage room. That way I pretty much get all the commonly used values
2018-02-23 15:53:35	zleap	shauno: yeah
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2018-02-23 15:54:15	zleap	bangood are a good source of resistors , amazon sell 100 for 1.50
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2018-02-23 15:54:24	zleap	or one of the sellers who sell on amazon
2018-02-23 15:54:49	shauno	I still use farnell for them, for various reasons
2018-02-23 15:54:51	r3	this is an insanely handy thing, full of resistors of common values:  https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10969
2018-02-23 15:56:01	zleap	like you said buy the more common values in bulk,  at least when there in the paper reel things you can cut up,  write on value and store in different places, such as a hack kit box,  and one where you're working
2018-02-23 15:56:05	zleap	workbench
2018-02-23 15:56:40	shauno	ugh.  how come whenever I need a usb cable, I can find every single variation of usb cable *except* the one I'm looking for
2018-02-23 15:56:52	Habbie	shauno, because you have a large collection of useless stuff?
2018-02-23 15:57:21	shauno	it's not useless!  it's just not what need right now :)
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2018-02-23 15:57:59	shauno	I have a cable somewhere that's USB to a 2.1mm barrel jack.  but I only have one, so it's always missing
2018-02-23 15:58:06	inook	Im tryiing to get my sensdehat(Raspberry Pi sensor thaat got led lights that programable) to count down from 5 and on 0 use camera.capture(filename.jpg). Im trying to get current time and date into a variable that i can use as filename but ive only managedd to add time when script started as filename. and i want to use the script several times(keep on taking pictures with the joystick) so it needs to be a diffrent filename each picture.
2018-02-23 15:58:07	inook	heres
2018-02-23 15:58:07	inook	<inook>  my code so far:https://paste.pound-python.org/show/JJYLCwkRklV092Qa35sH/ youll se that ive made some comments that might make it esier to understand. anyway if you help me send me a msg priv or type my nick here so i get a notation. thx
2018-02-23 15:58:13	r3	shauno:  that was an issue here until I got one of these:  http://a.co/2fS8O2b
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2018-02-23 15:58:54	shauno	I think if I augment my desk any further, it'll gain sentience
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2018-02-23 15:59:16	r3	shauno, mine too, which is why this went ON THE WALL!  ;)
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2018-02-23 16:02:21	r3	seriously, I no longer have to hunt for that ONE cable.  Like you, I use a few things regularly, but not all the time, so this was so freekin' handy.  All interface cables from USB to Serial to bus pirate to FTDI - they all went up there and now I can always find them.  Such a simple thingy really made my day.
2018-02-23 16:05:00	Habbie	shauno, oh i also have exactly one of that - came with a useless otg hub
2018-02-23 16:05:48	Habbie	i also hung my cables in a previous home, it was very convenient
2018-02-23 16:05:59	r3	inook: I'm not sure, but maybe you could move the 'DateTime=datetime.now()' out of the function - I'm not a python guru but it sounds like it is defined once on startup?   Or just get rid of the function entirely and just test the code to see if it works outside the function
2018-02-23 16:06:34	r3	s/outside/without/
2018-02-23 16:06:55	Habbie	that's not it
2018-02-23 16:07:02	Habbie	the indentation on this script looks weird btw
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2018-02-23 16:11:18	r3	or does he just need a loop every 5
2018-02-23 16:11:28	r3	(as I don't see one)
2018-02-23 16:13:05	shauno	agreed on the indentation.  everything after line 32 is indented for no reason
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2018-02-23 16:14:08	Habbie	that's not all that is wrong
2018-02-23 16:14:50	shauno	it happens again at 41
2018-02-23 16:15:00	shauno	this is challenging my pathetic grasp of python though  lol
2018-02-23 16:15:27	Habbie	lines 36 and 41-44 would not even parse
2018-02-23 16:15:39	Habbie	compared to 33-46 that indeed also would not parse
2018-02-23 16:16:48	inook	r3 if i dont use it in  function it add the time when scripts started to the name. and im going to take more then one image so its not a solution but thx for trying
2018-02-23 16:19:22	inook	<inook>  my code so far:https://paste.pound-python.org/show/JJYLCwkRklV092Qa35sH/ youll se that ive made some comments that might make it esier to understand. anyway if you help me send me a msg priv or type my nick here so i get a notation. thx
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2018-02-23 16:21:23	shauno	gonna grab a coffee and take a bash at this.  I'm curious now :)
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2018-02-23 16:23:22	shauno	two questions so far, ignoring the indentations; line 15, this appends the timestamp to the filename? why? you've already embedded the time in the filename in line 14
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2018-02-23 16:24:10	larsks	shauno: it doesn't append anything.  It just returns a tuple to the caller...which doesn't appear to be expecting a tuple.
2018-02-23 16:24:20	shauno	and line 41, I'm not sure why this even exists.  completeFilePath is a full path already, and filePath doesn't exist
2018-02-23 16:24:35	larsks	I'm not convinced that this code even runs.  If nothing else, the indentation problems would make it blow up.
2018-02-23 16:24:44	larsks	inook, you should fix those issues first.
2018-02-23 16:24:53	shauno	ah, I thought you had to wrap it in something to make it a tuple  (I did mention I have a pathetic grasp of python)
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2018-02-23 16:25:25	larsks	shauno: (x, y) is a tuple (which is what we see on line 15).
2018-02-23 16:25:41	larsks	Although note that return is special: "return x, y" would actually return a tuple, also.
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2018-02-23 16:41:11	shauno	inook: I've fixed the bits I can test without camera/sensehat hardware.  mostly with notes on what/why; https://paste.pound-python.org/show/dy5Bn9F6hSwQz1IXuFb4/
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2018-02-23 16:41:44	shauno	I can't guarantee that's done, just that if I comment out all the sense.* or camera.* bits it completes sanely
2018-02-23 16:42:35	squirrel	shauno: you are against single char variables but you capitalize them?
2018-02-23 16:42:46	shauno	yes :)
2018-02-23 16:42:58	squirrel	you're a monster
2018-02-23 16:43:24	shauno	indeed.  I almost always capitalize anything I'll treat as a constant
2018-02-23 16:43:42	ali1234	colour definitions should be tuples, unless that doesn't work, in which case the library sucks
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2018-02-23 16:44:12	shauno	I have no idea if that bit works, I don't have a sense hat
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2018-02-23 16:45:48	shauno	or to be more specific, https://paste.pound-python.org/show/PQTAX6QIbmZR2CbuiZ2v/ works for me, I can't help him with anything that requires the hardware
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2018-02-23 16:47:44	shauno	(I did say I have a poor grasp of python.  and I also believe being wrong is a good way to tease out the people who can do better ;)
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2018-02-23 16:53:35	inook	shauno, ty so fucking much <3
2018-02-23 16:53:54	gordonDrogon	inook, try to keep it family friendly please.
2018-02-23 16:54:24	gordonDrogon	Rules: https://goo.gl/h5qPhz
2018-02-23 16:54:54	shauno	and watch your indentation.  python is very fussy about its indentation, so any indent it can't figure out the reason for, becomes a show-stopper
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2018-02-23 16:56:13	shauno	the rest of it was just the slight disconnects from someone who's pasting together examples they found.  I totally identify with that too  lol
2018-02-23 16:56:25	upinarms	anyone here use the Pi for pen testing?
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2018-02-23 16:57:00	upinarms	if so, are you using a distro other than Kali? If so, what and why?
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2018-02-23 17:02:27	strixdio	upinarms: right now I have a pi0w with kali and p4wnp1 on it.
2018-02-23 17:03:03	strixdio	upinarms: I am considering using arch + blackarch for a pi2
2018-02-23 17:03:41	strixdio	I don't like .deb distros much. Usually pretty stale. Kali isn't good for much else other than what it's built for.
2018-02-23 17:03:58	upinarms	strixdio: I've used straight Arch on Pi 3
2018-02-23 17:04:06	strixdio	upinarms: alarmpi ?
2018-02-23 17:04:10	upinarms	It worked pretty good
2018-02-23 17:04:14	strixdio	yeah, it is.
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2018-02-23 17:04:50	strixdio	The only reason I don't have it on the pi0w is because p4wnp1 is made for .deb distros.
2018-02-23 17:05:00	upinarms	there were some tools out there based on debian I was considering adding to the tool set, but after further testing, they're not as stable as I'd like
2018-02-23 17:05:02	strixdio	I suppose it can be ported to arch, but I'm not ready for that task yet.
2018-02-23 17:05:20	strixdio	upinarms: you may like blackarch
2018-02-23 17:05:34	upinarms	still kicking the around the idea of debian, but not sure it's going to make it
2018-02-23 17:06:09	upinarms	I haven't messed with BlackArch in a while. Has it gotten better?
2018-02-23 17:06:27	strixdio	I've had a strange progression through distros. Started with debian, moved to fedora, tried arch and hated it (mostly because the toxic elitist community that can't admit things can break), moved to gentoo and loved it, now I'm back to arch for "gentoo easymode" lol
2018-02-23 17:06:41	upinarms	lol
2018-02-23 17:06:50	upinarms	I hear ya on the elitests
2018-02-23 17:06:53	strixdio	but I still use a blend of all distros
2018-02-23 17:07:04	upinarms	that's one reason I've strayed from it as of late
2018-02-23 17:07:07	strixdio	yep.
2018-02-23 17:07:18	upinarms	to each their own
2018-02-23 17:07:38	strixdio	Gentoo is much more difficult (2nd hardest distro afaik) than arch, but they don't act like children.
2018-02-23 17:07:45	upinarms	I like to use things that work w/o the hassles
2018-02-23 17:07:57	strixdio	Yeah. Strangely enough, ubuntu is not that way for me.
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2018-02-23 17:08:52	strixdio	my coworker is building his own pentesting distro based off xubuntu, since kali is lacking. I tried it, and things just break. He asks me, "WHAT did you DO?!" and "apt update && apt upgrade" doesn't get any more simple than that
2018-02-23 17:09:03	upinarms	the thing w/ Kali is that ever since they went with the rolling distro, it seems as though things break more often than before. Not sure why, but that is what I'm experiencing, especially w/ wireless toolsets.
2018-02-23 17:09:12	strixdio	hmm
2018-02-23 17:09:35	strixdio	upinarms: "to each their own" +1
2018-02-23 17:09:45	upinarms	IDK, I'd prefer to use Xubuntu on the Pi and through the PTF toolset on there
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2018-02-23 17:10:14	upinarms	trying outUbuntu MATE on it now w/ PTF and it's so so
2018-02-23 17:10:21	strixdio	Yeah I'm really not the biggest fan of kali. Don't get me wrong, great for quick and dirty stuff, and they kinda paved the way (backtrack). Glad they exist. But not for me.
2018-02-23 17:10:53	strixdio	I'm going to be installing xubuntu for a few people actually.
2018-02-23 17:10:59	strixdio	It's "good enough".
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2018-02-23 17:11:31	upinarms	the initial install of PTF is extremely painful on a Pi in regards to the amount of time it takes to install everything.
2018-02-23 17:11:36	strixdio	anyway, to go back to your original question- I've used gentoo on a pi. Don't do that unless you cross compile. *don't*. LOL
2018-02-23 17:12:23	upinarms	Considering I'm using it primarily for Wireless engagements, I'm going to test out installing just those tools and see where it lands reliability sake
2018-02-23 17:12:31	upinarms	LOL
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2018-02-23 17:13:41	strixdio	why ptf though?
2018-02-23 17:15:37	upinarms	Honestly, just testing now. Trying to streamline the deployment of tools.
2018-02-23 17:15:58	strixdio	upinarms: happen to hear this on a podcast?
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2018-02-23 17:16:12	upinarms	I was hoping it'd take less time vs. manually installing metasploit and the wireless tools
2018-02-23 17:16:28	upinarms	nope, just through researching on my own
2018-02-23 17:16:31	strixdio	ah
2018-02-23 17:17:04	upinarms	hell, even installing the full toolset of PTF on a regular PC takes a really long time
2018-02-23 17:17:17	upinarms	but on a Pi, we're talking several hours
2018-02-23 17:17:29	upinarms	time is precious
2018-02-23 17:17:30	upinarms	lol
2018-02-23 17:17:38	strixdio	oh it's compiling yeah?
2018-02-23 17:17:50	strixdio	that's why you don't want to use gentoo on a pi ;)
2018-02-23 17:18:00	upinarms	especially when my window between engagements is limited
2018-02-23 17:18:14	upinarms	right
2018-02-23 17:18:17	upinarms	lol
2018-02-23 17:18:23	strixdio	well, you want to prep before hand.
2018-02-23 17:19:04	strixdio	make the initial setup exactly the way you want it, then dd the sdcard to a file for future redeployment.
2018-02-23 17:19:11	upinarms	yeah, Im working on creating a standard image I can just through on an sd and roll with it
2018-02-23 17:19:18	upinarms	exactly
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2018-02-23 17:23:13		[Habbie back: gone 09:00:41]
2018-02-23 17:23:46	Habbie	strixdio, upinarms, note that you're reusing your ssh host key in that case
2018-02-23 17:24:57	upinarms	always change the ssh keys
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2018-02-23 17:25:10	upinarms	every engagements
2018-02-23 17:27:25	argoneus	out of curiosity, what do you guys do with your raspi?
2018-02-23 17:27:27	argoneus	like, interesting things
2018-02-23 17:28:26	Habbie	i am typing to you from it right now
2018-02-23 17:28:37	Habbie	it also briefly served as a mail server but i decided against it
2018-02-23 17:28:56	upinarms	I use mine for wardriving  WiFi networks primarily
2018-02-23 17:29:20	larsks	argoneus: I used one to set up a music player for my kids several years back.  Another is about to become a companion computer on a quadcopter.
2018-02-23 17:29:21	upinarms	it's discreet and a lot better than walking through a customer site with a laptop
2018-02-23 17:29:40	larsks	And my daughter just asked for a security camera so she can see if her brother is sneaking into her room.
2018-02-23 17:29:40	Habbie	larsks, oh yes, i also had one as mpd box for a whle
2018-02-23 17:30:41	larsks	argoneus: Oh, and last year I used one as a simple audio synthesizer for a science night demo at my kid's school.
2018-02-23 17:31:41	Habbie	if the pi existed in 1996, i would have used one as a synth back then as well ;)
2018-02-23 17:32:17	larsks	Habbie: I hooked up a little midi control surface (sliders and knobs) and used it to generate various basic waveforms, with an oscilloscope attached to visualize them...
2018-02-23 17:32:27	Habbie	cool
2018-02-23 17:32:46	upinarms	that is cool
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2018-02-23 17:34:14	argoneus	a music player?
2018-02-23 17:34:19	argoneus	how did you control it
2018-02-23 17:34:37	Habbie	i used an android mpd client
2018-02-23 17:34:37	larsks	argoneus: Hah! I built a small set of buttons out of some legos and some little switches.
2018-02-23 17:34:46	argoneus	oh, huh
2018-02-23 17:34:52	argoneus	was there an easy way to add new songs to it
2018-02-23 17:35:05	Habbie	songs were on my NAS
2018-02-23 17:35:07	Habbie	so yes
2018-02-23 17:35:20	larsks	It was interacting with a logitech media server, so basically the same thing that Habbie just said: songs were on a network drive.
2018-02-23 17:35:25	larsks	It was easy for *me* to add songs to it.
2018-02-23 17:35:44	Habbie	ah squeezebox
2018-02-23 17:36:46	larsks	Habbie: still running the squeezebox server, but mostly the kids listen to music on google play now :)
2018-02-23 17:36:52	Habbie	:)
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2018-02-23 17:38:00	argoneus	ah, I see
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2018-02-23 18:16:42	pi_m	hi all
2018-02-23 18:17:00	clickboom	hello
2018-02-23 18:17:15	pi_m	has anyone compiled vlc media player with hw acceleration successfully here?
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2018-02-23 18:19:37	pi_m	Makefile:2220: recipe for target 'libqt4_plugin_la-qt4.lo' failed
2018-02-23 18:19:37	pi_m	make[7]: *** [libqt4_plugin_la-qt4.lo] Error 1
2018-02-23 18:19:41	-->	kingarmadillo (~kingarmad@38.104.254.34) has joined #raspberrypi
2018-02-23 18:19:46	pi_m	i got this error during make process
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2018-02-23 18:21:50	larsks	pi_m: I've never tried building vlc from source before. Were there any lines prior to that message that might indicate the nature of the problem?
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2018-02-23 18:22:06	pi_m	no
2018-02-23 18:22:13	pi_m	this was the first error related line
2018-02-23 18:22:31	pi_m	before this i only saw warnings
2018-02-23 18:22:35	shiftplusone	post the full output
2018-02-23 18:22:44	shiftplusone	(to pastebin)
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2018-02-23 18:23:45	pi_m	ok,sec
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2018-02-23 18:29:36	poisonby	Yo. Looking to get a raspberry pi mainly to run bitlbee (steam) and an IRC client, gonna run it headless and SSH to it. Is zero good enough?
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2018-02-23 18:30:02	Habbie	poisonby, should be fine
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2018-02-23 18:30:49	poisonby	Cool, thanks
2018-02-23 18:30:58	pi_m	https://pastebin.com/ErpER5F2
2018-02-23 18:31:02	pi_m	here are the errors
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2018-02-23 18:31:22	Habbie	pi_m, the actual errors seem to be exactly missing
2018-02-23 18:31:39	pi_m	hm
2018-02-23 18:31:45	pi_m	let me start it all over again then
2018-02-23 18:31:45	larsks	Some build environments have a DEBUG or VERBOSE flag for the makefile so that it shows full command lines and errors.
2018-02-23 18:31:50	larsks	Maybe vlc has something like that?
2018-02-23 18:31:51	Habbie	make V=1
2018-02-23 18:31:52	Habbie	is likely to work here
2018-02-23 18:31:59	Habbie	and indeed recommended for the retry
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2018-02-23 18:38:24	inook	does anyone have experience withinstalling a adrafruit 3,5" tft touch screen??
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2018-02-23 18:40:29	pi_m	how should i set this verbose/debug flag?
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2018-02-23 18:40:38	Habbie	try 'make V=1'
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2018-02-23 18:40:45	pi_m	before the make command?
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2018-02-23 18:40:49	pi_m	ah ok
2018-02-23 18:40:57	Habbie	it's likely there's a configure flag as well
2018-02-23 18:41:00	Habbie	but V=1 is shorter
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2018-02-23 18:42:34	pi_m	ok,it started
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2018-02-23 18:42:52	pi_m	now we have to wait about 10 minutes till the error comes
2018-02-23 18:42:53	pi_m	:)
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2018-02-23 18:44:23	pi_m	i used "make -j3 V=1 > buildinfo.txt" command
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2018-02-23 18:51:28	strixdio	so, the nes pi case looks cool, but im wondering if i should go for an aluminum case with a fan instead for better performance. thoughts?
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2018-02-23 18:55:33	pi_m	hm
2018-02-23 18:55:41	pi_m	the log is too long to put it on pastebin :D
2018-02-23 18:55:47	shiftplusone	better performance? It won't give you better performance, it will just prevent the pi from throttling if you're using the HW at 100%, which you wouldn't typically be doing
2018-02-23 18:55:55	larsks	pi_m: how big is it?
2018-02-23 18:56:02	pi_m	1.3 MB
2018-02-23 18:56:16	larsks	Maybe just a different pastebin?  What about 'nc termbin.com 9999 < buildinfo.txt' ?
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2018-02-23 18:56:24	Lartza	You shouldn't use pastebin.com in any case anyway
2018-02-23 18:56:37	larsks	Also, what Lartza said :)
2018-02-23 18:56:49	shiftplusone	My pi in the NES case only gets hots when playing HEVC video (since it's done mostly by highly optimized code on the CPU, possibly with some help from the VPU)
2018-02-23 18:57:05	Habbie	playing HEVC is pretty impressive for a NES!
2018-02-23 18:57:07	pi_m	https://ufile.io/x77h8
2018-02-23 18:57:12	shiftplusone	FLIRC case should have you covered though, no need for a fan.
2018-02-23 18:57:14	pi_m	i uploaded the textfile here
2018-02-23 18:57:23	strixdio	shiftplusone: hoe about n64 games?
2018-02-23 18:57:38	strixdio	can the pi handle anything newer than n64?
2018-02-23 18:57:42	shiftplusone	Haven't tried n64, but no trouble with PS2
2018-02-23 18:57:48	strixdio	oo
2018-02-23 18:57:53	shiftplusone	2? am I thinking right
2018-02-23 18:57:57	shiftplusone	I am probably thinking ps1
2018-02-23 18:58:00	strixdio	maybe
2018-02-23 18:58:09	Lartza	PS2 is hard to emulate even on x86 so probably
2018-02-23 18:58:14	strixdio	idk honestly I wasnt the biggest playstation fan
2018-02-23 18:58:24	larsks	pi_m: ugh, your pastebin doesn't work with my adblocker.
2018-02-23 18:58:26	strixdio	but i did habe ps1/2
2018-02-23 18:58:31	 *	larsks moves on.
2018-02-23 18:58:35	Lartza	larsks, It's not a pastebin it's a crappy file upload site
2018-02-23 18:58:45	shiftplusone	yeah, PS2 was on PC and barely works. Some games run great, some don't. On the pi, PS1 is fine.
2018-02-23 18:58:45	larsks	Even worse :)
2018-02-23 18:58:59	strixdio	hmm
2018-02-23 18:59:12	strixdio	pi2 or 3, shiftplusone
2018-02-23 18:59:18	shiftplusone	3
2018-02-23 18:59:33	strixdio	and it never gets to thebpoint of thermal throttling in the nes case?
2018-02-23 18:59:40	strixdio	the point*
2018-02-23 18:59:59	shiftplusone	I've only seen it when playing HEVC video
2018-02-23 19:00:10	strixdio	shiftplusone: your nick.. can i just call you "bang"? haha
2018-02-23 19:00:24	strixdio	hevc video, idk what that is
2018-02-23 19:00:34	shiftplusone	x265
2018-02-23 19:00:37	strixdio	o
2018-02-23 19:00:49	strixdio	yeah im not needing that at all
2018-02-23 19:01:02	strixdio	did you mod your nespi case for soft poweroff?
2018-02-23 19:01:10	larsks	pi_m: fwiw, termbin (which I suggested earlier) works fine with a 1.5M file.  And also has no advertising at all.
2018-02-23 19:01:23	pi_m	ok
2018-02-23 19:01:26	shiftplusone	Nuh, it's on 24/7 running recalbox, so no need.
2018-02-23 19:01:28	pi_m	let me upload there
2018-02-23 19:01:36	Lartza	gist works too, bpaste, ptpb...
2018-02-23 19:01:39	strixdio	recalbox?
2018-02-23 19:01:43	larsks	So many choices!
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2018-02-23 19:02:11	shiftplusone	recalbox is an os like retropie, but IMHO, better.
2018-02-23 19:02:17	strixdio	reaaaallly
2018-02-23 19:02:21	shiftplusone	it just runs emulationstation and kodi
2018-02-23 19:02:30	strixdio	oh i dont need kodo
2018-02-23 19:02:30	pi_m	http://termbin.com/l8nr
2018-02-23 19:02:33	strixdio	kodi*
2018-02-23 19:02:44	strixdio	what makesbit better aside kodi?
2018-02-23 19:03:01	strixdio	i can never hit space on my phone... always "b" lol
2018-02-23 19:03:31	sinooko	I like recalbox because it is dead simple
2018-02-23 19:03:33	shiftplusone	Configured nicely. A web frontend to change settings, a samba share to drop in roms, my controller just works, it's not based on raspbian.
2018-02-23 19:04:12	shiftplusone	retropie tends to build on top of raspbian, but instead of doing it properly with .deb files, they drop config and binary files all over the place, so it's somewhat fragile, in my experience.
2018-02-23 19:04:35	Lartza	Seems recalbox gets more updates too
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2018-02-23 19:04:48	Habbie	shiftplusone, yes, i have no idea how to get rid of the retropie i added to my raspbian
2018-02-23 19:05:22	sinooko	I can;t count how many times I backed up files and rewrote the sd card :P
2018-02-23 19:06:35	larsks	pi_m: oddly enough, I still don't see any additional errors there around those failure messages.
2018-02-23 19:07:53	strixdio	shiftplusone: what is recalbox built on then?
2018-02-23 19:08:23	strixdio	i just watched a video on recalbox vs retropie and he said retropie gets more updates
2018-02-23 19:08:30	 *	strixdio shrugs
2018-02-23 19:08:54	shiftplusone	I don't remember. It may be something like buildroot or (open/libre)elec's build system
2018-02-23 19:09:14	shiftplusone	I think something like buildroot since it doesn't use systemd.
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2018-02-23 19:12:16	shiftplusone	Whatever it is, the advantage is that they have full control over it and don't have to build around another system in hacky ways.
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2018-02-23 19:30:21	mtk2001	Can someone suggest how I can live stream the pi camera through a browser. I have tried every suggestion suggested by a Google search. All either don't work or are not suitable.
2018-02-23 19:31:50	Habbie	in what way are they not suitable?
2018-02-23 19:31:54	larsks	mtk2001: I was really surprised at how much of a pain it was to do live streaming.
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2018-02-23 19:34:09	mtk2001	larsks: Have you succeeded in this?
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2018-02-23 19:35:58	Greg-J	Holy shit shapeways is expensive
2018-02-23 19:36:21	mtk2001	habbie: WebRTC just about works but I have no access to the html code. I need this as I want to add some code of my own.
2018-02-23 19:36:35	Habbie	Greg-J, language please
2018-02-23 19:36:39	Greg-J	soz
2018-02-23 19:36:43	Habbie	np
2018-02-23 19:36:45	Greg-J	I forget what channel I'm in.
2018-02-23 19:36:59	Habbie	i find myself being cleaner in some other channels because of here :)
2018-02-23 19:37:19	shiftplusone	it's expensive, but when you factor in the cost of a 3d printer, the quality of the prints, the amount of time and filament you'd use before you got the print you wanted... it makes sense
2018-02-23 19:37:32	shiftplusone	Unless you do a lot of printing, shapeways makes sense.
2018-02-23 19:38:21	shiftplusone	I wanted to get an astropi case printed in one of their metallic materials, but when I saw how much it would cost.... I decided I don't need it.
2018-02-23 19:38:49	Greg-J	I have FDM printers. Their HP nylong plastic is bananas expensive though.
2018-02-23 19:38:55	poisonby	Skipped out on the zero, just ordered a rpi 3 =) Gonna be fun to try it out
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2018-02-23 19:39:15	Greg-J	Basically for the shell the size of a nintendo switch, it's $177.
2018-02-23 19:39:41	shiftplusone	yeah.... sounds about right.
2018-02-23 19:39:55	shiftplusone	WHy not use your printer with some cheap pla then?
2018-02-23 19:40:02	Greg-J	I just took the USB+ethernet+GPIO off a pi3 and put on two single usb headers. WAY easier than I thought it would be and the lower profile makes it much more appealing.
2018-02-23 19:40:15	Greg-J	@shiftplusone, too many small details.
2018-02-23 19:40:20	shiftplusone	ah
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2018-02-23 19:44:23	ali1234	dirtypcbs.com -> $0.95 per gram SLA prints, and the quality is great
2018-02-23 19:44:44	shiftplusone	This morning I've finished putting together a new pursa i3 which is much nicer than my old one. Looking forward to messing around with it
2018-02-23 19:44:48	ali1234	just upload the STL and you get the part in like 2 weeks
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2018-02-23 19:45:51	shiftplusone	nice
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2018-02-23 19:46:34	Habbie	poisonby, well that will definitely work then :)
2018-02-23 19:46:38	Habbie	poisonby, i am typing at you via a pi2
2018-02-23 19:46:45	Habbie	poisonby, no bitlbee currently though but that won't break the bank
2018-02-23 19:46:52	Greg-J	ali1234, size limits?
2018-02-23 19:47:42	Greg-J	http://dirtypcbs.com/store/print3d/about is a 404
2018-02-23 19:47:50	Greg-J	Super confidence inspiring ;)
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2018-02-23 19:48:33	poisonby	Habbie: Nice! :D
2018-02-23 19:48:55	ali1234	they don't mention any maximum sizes
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2018-02-23 19:49:54	Greg-J	It would probably be on their about page if they had one.
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2018-02-23 19:52:39	shiftplusone	right... time to go home and waste filament
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2018-02-23 20:02:16	mtk2001	larsks: Can you provide some details or a link to how you managed to stream the pi camera.
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2018-02-23 20:03:20	larsks	mtk2001: I can't right now.  I don't remember what I eventually got working, and I'm not near my Pi at the moment. I can take a look later today, probably.
2018-02-23 20:06:59	waveform	mtk2001, pistreaming is a little project I stuffed together to demonstrate web browser streaming a while back (https://github.com/waveform80/pistreaming) but it's far from ideal (transcodes to MPEG1 because at the time H.264 wasn't universally supported in browsers - still not sure if it is yet! And then there's the whole MP4 re-packing thing which didn't work in ffmpeg, and blah blah)
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2018-02-23 20:08:32	mtk2001	waveform : Thanks I will try this.
2018-02-23 20:08:41	waveform	there's also an MJPEG streaming demo in the picamera docs (http://picamera.readthedocs.io/en/release-1.13/recipes2.html#web-streaming) but again it's far from ideal being MJPEG (so not taking any advantage of temporal redundancy)
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2018-02-23 20:17:06	mtk2001	waveform : Thanks very much. Lots to play with now.
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2018-02-23 21:12:04	BCMM	hmm, at what point was MPEG1 universally supported by browsers?
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2018-02-23 21:17:20	Tenkawa	BCMM: is it not in the wikipedia entry?
2018-02-23 21:17:48	BCMM	i mean, afaik h.264 is the only codec that has ever been truly universal for browsers
2018-02-23 21:18:01	Tenkawa	good point
2018-02-23 21:18:05	BCMM	sorry, referring to waveform's message like an hour ago
2018-02-23 21:18:10	Tenkawa	theres a lot of facets
2018-02-23 21:18:24	Tenkawa	ahh didnt see it
2018-02-23 21:19:39	waveform	BCMM, it's not - but *javascript* is and that's more universal. H.264 wasn't supported on FF at the time of writing pistreaming (and still isn't on some mobile browsers)
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2018-02-23 21:20:30	waveform	(and someone came up with a minimal and reasonably well performing JS MPEG1 decoder - sufficiently quick that it ran on an ancient iphone3 I had at the time)
2018-02-23 21:20:44	BCMM	oh bloody hell, there's a Javascript video decoder?
2018-02-23 21:20:50	waveform	yeah ... seriously
2018-02-23 21:20:51	BCMM	that's honestly terrifying
2018-02-23 21:20:55	waveform	yup
2018-02-23 21:21:25	waveform	I mean it's basically a load of matrix math then dumping the result on a canvas, but it's still slightly scary that it's fast enough to do realtime decoding even on a mobile
2018-02-23 21:22:02	waveform	(not high res or anything ... still, it was the only way I could find at the time of doing a proper "works on absolutely everything" web streaming thing)
2018-02-23 21:22:50	waveform	I'm sure H.264 is better supported these days, but there's still the issue of wrapping the camera firmware's output correctly in MP4 or a TS (preferably without involving lots of software dependencies that people will then constantly query me about!)
2018-02-23 21:23:21	waveform	anyway, the pistreaming page has the gory details and the back-story - but that's the gist of it
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2018-02-23 21:58:41	puff	Good afternoon.
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2018-02-23 22:17:06	lostx	 hi i am trying to take a video with my picamera but it seems like something is wrong with it
2018-02-23 22:17:15	lostx	 when i run ">>> camera.start_preview()"
2018-02-23 22:17:27	lostx	"<picamera.renderers.PiPreviewRenderer object at 0x76317770>" is the outpu
2018-02-23 22:17:37	lostx	i dont know what is it
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2018-02-23 22:17:48	waveform	that's just the renderer object representing the preview, you can ignore it
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2018-02-23 22:18:25	waveform	or you can grab a reference to it to manipulate the preview as it's running (but usually there's no point as you can access that as camera.preview anyway)
2018-02-23 22:18:53	lostx	waveform: i thought that
2018-02-23 22:19:11	lostx	sart_priview would show something
2018-02-23 22:19:41	lostx	i mean start_preview
2018-02-23 22:19:46	waveform	it will, on the HDMI/composite output of the Pi - are you connected over SSH or something?
2018-02-23 22:20:01	waveform	(or using a non-HDMI/composite display?)
2018-02-23 22:20:11	lostx	ye si am connected with putty
2018-02-23 22:20:13	puff	lostx: Idly curous, where are you typing this command?
2018-02-23 22:20:16	lostx	on windows
2018-02-23 22:20:19	waveform	well, there's your reason
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2018-02-23 22:20:34	puff	lostx: I'm messing with motion / motioneye at the moment.
2018-02-23 22:20:35	lostx	what?
2018-02-23 22:20:39	Greg-J	Are there 2 I2C controllers on the pi3?
2018-02-23 22:20:45	waveform	putty is a pure text interface - perfectly good for controlling the camera, but the camera can only output video over the Pi's video ports (HDMI/composite)
2018-02-23 22:20:45	lostx	puff: ok
2018-02-23 22:21:08	puff	lostx: ssh/putty can't display images, only text.
2018-02-23 22:21:12	Greg-J	I see two sets of SDA/SCL (GPIO0-4)
2018-02-23 22:21:17	lostx	okk waveform
2018-02-23 22:21:25	lostx	so any solution?
2018-02-23 22:21:40	puff	lostx: In general you have to either a) plug a video monitor into the pi, b) point a browser, VLC or some other video client at a port on the pi where the imagery is being served
2018-02-23 22:22:03	puff	lostx: That's what I'm using motion/motioneye for, it serves the video over HTTP.
2018-02-23 22:22:10	waveform	yup, that's about the size of it
2018-02-23 22:22:27	lostx	ok ok thanks
2018-02-23 22:22:42	puff	lostx: You have a couple options for the monitor, including an HDMI monitor, I believe there's a cable/adapter for VGA, and even a way to plug it into a standard TV.
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2018-02-23 22:22:50	puff	But obviously HDMI is simplest.
2018-02-23 22:23:05	puff	With that, you're using the pi with an X-windows GUI desktop, just like a regular PC.
2018-02-23 22:23:40	lostx	yes
2018-02-23 22:23:41	puff	MotionEye is an option if you don't lack one of: HDMI monitor, HDMI cable, HDMI to mini-HDMI adaptor (for pi zero, which lacks a full-sized HDMI port).
2018-02-23 22:23:54	puff	Er, is an option if you LACK one of:
2018-02-23 22:24:17	puff	Or you can get an HDMI to DVI adapter plug if you have a monitor with a DVI port but no HDMI port.
2018-02-23 22:24:53	puff	As you can tell, I have some recent experience with this :-)
2018-02-23 22:25:12	lostx	hmm ok thanks a lot i have got this
2018-02-23 22:25:20	puff	lostx: Another option is to use the rapistill or rapivid commands to save the still image or video to a file, then download it.
2018-02-23 22:25:49	lostx	hmm i was doing that
2018-02-23 22:26:38	puff	Cool.
2018-02-23 22:27:19	puff	Anyone know if there's an IRC channel for motion/motioneye low level technical details?  I was thinking of coding an android viewer app for the streaming video.
2018-02-23 22:28:04	larsks	puff: according to the git project page, there's a gitter.
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2018-02-23 22:28:09	puff	With the pi zero and the browser viewer the video was very slow and laggy.  I'm assuming that was the pi limiting it.
2018-02-23 22:28:15	puff	larsks: Ah, cool.
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2018-02-23 22:30:07	puff	re: slow/laggy, that is, obviously it's a limitation of either a) the camera board, b) the pi processing and serving the video stream, c) the wifi network, d) my browser/laptop rendering it.  Of the four I would most suspect b) of being the issue, but that's just an educated guess.  Anyone have more info on the question?
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2018-02-23 23:27:44	waveform	puff, very much depends on what motion's serving
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2018-02-23 23:28:37	waveform	if it's serving H.264 then it should be taking the stream straight from the Pi's GPU (all Pi's use the same GPU, which is capable of handling 1080p30 encoding in real-time)
2018-02-23 23:29:07	waveform	so, if it's serving H.264 you can rule out b). You can rule out a) anyway (the camera board doesn't do any (substantial) processing, just flips basically)
2018-02-23 23:29:55	waveform	c) can certainly introduce latency, and wifi in particular (compared to ethernet) tends to have long periods of contention
2018-02-23 23:31:06	waveform	having said all that d) is *usually* the issue: the vast majority of video playback software deliberately buffers several seconds of video to guard against network instability. Low latency streaming is hard, and not required for many things outside video conferencing so most things don't do all the extra work required to support it
2018-02-23 23:31:56	waveform	however, if motion's doing its own transcoding (e.g. to MPEG2 or something) on the CPU, then it could be b) too
2018-02-23 23:33:35	waveform	http://picamera.readthedocs.io/en/release-1.13/fov.html has a fair bit of info on the guts of the camera system (and how the GPU is basically responsible for the majority of processing - though it doesn't go into much detail on latency stuff)
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2018-02-24 00:21:09	TheGallopingFox	i bought a usb rgb for rpi, but im not sure how to change the colours on it?
2018-02-24 00:21:16	TheGallopingFox	*lcd
2018-02-24 00:21:29	TheGallopingFox	http://www.raspberrypiwiki.com/images/c/c1/USB-LCD-DAC-004.jpg
2018-02-24 00:21:43	TheGallopingFox	in that picture it shows green, but mine is blue background and white text, hard to read
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2018-02-24 00:30:16	stiltr	TheGallopingFox, I've never seen a display like that that could change colors. Likely you just bought a blue one.
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2018-02-24 00:37:53	@IT_Sean	I have seen ones with RGB backlights
2018-02-24 00:38:31	@IT_Sean	It should have come with example code or a dev guide that would clue you in to how to set the backlight.  Usually you do it by passing an RGB value, i.e 255,0,0 for 100% red.
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2018-02-24 00:38:37	@IT_Sean	TheGallopingFox: ^
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2018-02-24 00:40:06	TheGallopingFox	IT_Sean: the only code i could find is this
2018-02-24 00:40:06	TheGallopingFox	http://www.raspberrypiwiki.com/index.php/USB_16x2_RGB_LCD
2018-02-24 00:40:23	TheGallopingFox	maybe i just have a blue one, not sure why it is rgb
2018-02-24 00:40:27	TheGallopingFox	if its blue only
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2018-02-24 00:40:55	TheGallopingFox	was only 10 pounds, dont expect much anyhow
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2018-02-24 00:46:51	@IT_Sean	For £10, I wouldn't expect an RGB backlight.
2018-02-24 00:47:18	shauno	for most those 16x2 displays, just count the pins.  if you've got 16, it's mono, if you've got 18, it's rgb
2018-02-24 00:47:21	TheGallopingFox	it is called: USB 16x2 RGB LCD
2018-02-24 00:47:30	@IT_Sean	Oh... well, in that case....
2018-02-24 00:47:35	@IT_Sean	Check the docs.
2018-02-24 00:47:38	TheGallopingFox	http://www.raspberrypiwiki.com/index.php/USB_16x2_RGB_LCD
2018-02-24 00:47:43	TheGallopingFox	haha there isnt any
2018-02-24 00:47:52	@IT_Sean	If it's RGB, there will be code for the RGB'd ness, or pins to controll the RGB-ification
2018-02-24 00:48:08	TheGallopingFox	IT_Sean: would the code be the driver?
2018-02-24 00:48:16	TheGallopingFox	HD443780
2018-02-24 00:49:05	shauno	http://www.raspberrypiwiki.com/images/1/19/USBLCD3.jpg   like in that pic, there's a row of pins above the actual display.  16 = mono, 18=rgb.
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2018-02-24 00:50:48	TheGallopingFox	oh so i need to make changes to the actual board
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2018-02-24 00:51:04	TheGallopingFox	i have 16 pins
2018-02-24 00:52:05	--	ephemer0l is now known as GeneralDiscourse
2018-02-24 00:52:24	@IT_Sean	16 pins?  Sounds like mebbe not RGB then, mayhaps.
2018-02-24 00:52:50	TheGallopingFox	3 pins have little caps on
2018-02-24 00:52:54	TheGallopingFox	maybe thats the rgb part
2018-02-24 00:52:55	shauno	just the easiest way to figure out which module you've got.  on a mono screen, the last two pins are just +/- for the backlight.  on an rgb screen they're +/-/-/-
2018-02-24 00:54:10	TheGallopingFox	last pins say A K
2018-02-24 00:54:22	shauno	so just anode/cathode, one led channel
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2018-02-24 00:55:23	TheGallopingFox	ok not to worry
2018-02-24 00:55:30	TheGallopingFox	there must be a green version of it too then
2018-02-24 00:56:45	TheGallopingFox	not sure why they called them 'rgb'
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2018-02-24 00:58:01	shauno	almost all of these modules are a completely bog standard lcd+hitachi controller, then optionally a little daughterboard on the back if it's serial, i2c, usb, whatever
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2018-02-24 00:58:13	shauno	makes it easier to figure out what you need from the photo, once you know what you're looking for
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2018-02-24 02:37:20	jynkbot	heyyy
2018-02-24 02:38:36	jynkbot	anyone here?
2018-02-24 02:39:19	stiltr	Yep
2018-02-24 02:39:25	jynkbot	quick question
2018-02-24 02:39:33	jynkbot	when doing apt-get upgrade
2018-02-24 02:39:38	jynkbot	lets just say im on jessie
2018-02-24 02:39:44	jynkbot	it is not gonna upgrade me to wheezy right?
2018-02-24 02:39:59	stiltr	No, that would be a dist-upgrade.
2018-02-24 02:40:07	jynkbot	> it is not gonna upgrade me to stretch right?
2018-02-24 02:40:10	jynkbot	okie
2018-02-24 02:40:22	jynkbot	so its just the internal elements that upgrade right?
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2018-02-24 02:41:58	stiltr	As long as you don't do an apt-get dist-upgrade you'll stay on jessie or whichever.
2018-02-24 02:43:07	ShorTie	you physically have to go into /etc/apt/sources.list and change stuff to do a upgrade like that
2018-02-24 02:43:16	shauno	even dist-uprade wont' do much on it's own ... yeah, what he said
2018-02-24 02:43:41	stiltr	Ya, you're right. It's been a while... = /
2018-02-24 02:43:41	shauno	this isn't windows.  if you want a new OS you have to ask for it :)
2018-02-24 02:43:55	stiltr	lol
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2018-02-24 03:57:06	jynkbot	heyyy
2018-02-24 03:57:17	jynkbot	can someone try to explain dist-upgrade vs upgrade
2018-02-24 03:57:22	jynkbot	in simple terms?
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2018-02-24 04:06:26	shauno	upgrade will only fetch newer versions of packages you already have.  it'll refuse to add or remove any.  dist-upgrade tries to be clever about resolving this
2018-02-24 04:06:58	shauno	usually dist-upgrade is only needed when you update to a new distro, because that's the only time dependencies should change.  hence the name
2018-02-24 04:08:15	shauno	so if a new version of a package you do have, requires a library that you don't have - "apt-get upgrade" won't update it, "apt-get dist-upgrade" will (and install the library that you don't have)
2018-02-24 04:10:02	<--	Jacta (~Jacta@90.184.175.195.1.fullrate.ninja) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2018-02-24 04:11:01	shauno	(but in debian, that wouldn't usually be allowed mid-release.  the new version would have to wait for the next release)
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2018-02-24 04:21:23	jynkbot	 why is apt-get update throwing out a checksum error?
2018-02-24 04:21:30	jynkbot	hash checksum error?
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2018-02-24 04:22:41	squirrel	someone is haxxin u
2018-02-24 04:23:46	jynkbot	lol
2018-02-24 04:26:11	jynkbot	any idea?
2018-02-24 04:26:18	jynkbot	googeling is not helping..
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2018-02-24 08:35:18	Li	1 more crazy question ! How to make hdmi doesn't show anything at any given time except once usb webcam is connected?
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2018-02-24 10:15:25	jynkbot_	hey
2018-02-24 10:15:42	jynkbot_	wondering if anyone's jessie installation is throwing up apt-get hash errors
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2018-02-24 10:16:10	jynkbot_	my stretch installation is not throwing up this error
2018-02-24 10:17:45	jynkbot_	and like it one of the last packages on the list, so i am not sure if it is critical
2018-02-24 10:19:02	ShorTie	have you done a 'apt update' ??
2018-02-24 10:19:23	jynkbot_	yep. apt-get update you mean?
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2018-02-24 10:19:47	ShorTie	i like apt better, but ya
2018-02-24 10:20:07	ShorTie	it's the 'new' way
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2018-02-24 10:21:22	mfa298	apt is less typing, althoguh there's a few things where I find the apt- tools better (particularly search)
2018-02-24 10:21:57	ShorTie	true
2018-02-24 10:22:02	jynkbot_	let me try apt.
2018-02-24 10:22:07	jynkbot_	i did not know it is a thing...
2018-02-24 10:22:23	jynkbot_	ooh, apt has orange loading text, its definitely fancier.
2018-02-24 10:22:43	ShorTie	it has a progress bar apt-get doesn't
2018-02-24 10:24:19	jynkbot_	same.
2018-02-24 10:24:25	jynkbot_	it trips over this link: http://archive.raspberrypi.org/debian/dists/jessie/main/binary-armhf/Packages
2018-02-24 10:25:03	jynkbot_	not sure if it is a error on the dist list or not
2018-02-24 10:25:07	jynkbot_	but don't seem like it
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2018-02-24 10:26:27	ShorTie	that be a plugwash thing i do believe
2018-02-24 10:27:19	jynkbot_	whats a plug wash?
2018-02-24 10:27:46	gordonDrogon	he is one of the original creators of raspbian.
2018-02-24 10:27:49	jynkbot_	is it critical?
2018-02-24 10:28:15	ShorTie	the guy who takes care of that stuff
2018-02-24 10:28:58	gordonDrogon	what package are you trying to install?
2018-02-24 10:29:30	gordonDrogon	I've just done an update/upgrade on a Jessie system without any issues ...
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2018-02-24 10:30:30	jynkbot_	just a update/upgrade
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2018-02-24 10:30:49	jynkbot_	 but my goal right now is to setup a clean base to clone from
2018-02-24 10:30:55	gordonDrogon	well it worked fine for me.
2018-02-24 10:30:59	gordonDrogon	let me try anoyther Pi..
2018-02-24 10:31:02	jynkbot_	a few days ago?
2018-02-24 10:31:05	jynkbot_	or right now?
2018-02-24 10:31:13	gordonDrogon	right now.
2018-02-24 10:31:25	jynkbot_	I tried 2 pi, so it is not bad hardware
2018-02-24 10:31:32	jynkbot_	only happening in Jessie
2018-02-24 10:32:06	ShorTie	sure the sdcard is not messed up ??
2018-02-24 10:32:43	jynkbot_	tried on 2 16gb cards tho
2018-02-24 10:32:59	jynkbot_	i mean... it is throwing a hash sum error
2018-02-24 10:33:55	gordonDrogon	fine on a 2nd Pi too.
2018-02-24 10:34:37	ShorTie	since you got 2 sdcards, i'd try a fresh image on 1 of them
2018-02-24 10:38:09	jynkbot_	yep
2018-02-24 10:38:10	jynkbot_	did that
2018-02-24 10:38:20	jynkbot_	made sure i even downloaded torrent one.
2018-02-24 10:38:22	jynkbot_	ugghhh
2018-02-24 10:39:28	jynkbot_	should i drop a email to plug wash?
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2018-02-24 10:40:30	ShorTie	you check the hash on it ??
2018-02-24 10:40:54	ShorTie	i'd redownload it, and not the torrent
2018-02-24 10:40:58	jynkbot_	how do i check?
2018-02-24 10:41:26	ShorTie	md5sum or sumfin like that
2018-02-24 10:41:29	jynkbot_	oh
2018-02-24 10:41:33	jynkbot_	you mean the installation
2018-02-24 10:41:38	jynkbot_	yeah,i thought it could be me
2018-02-24 10:41:54	jynkbot_	i downloaded one version of jessie one version back
2018-02-24 10:41:59	jynkbot_	which is in june.
2018-02-24 10:42:03	ShorTie	the image, not the instalation
2018-02-24 10:42:12	jynkbot_	the last release of jessie is July
2018-02-24 10:42:22	jynkbot_	same error
2018-02-24 10:42:25	jynkbot_	same link acually
2018-02-24 10:42:34	jynkbot_	its specifically this package list
2018-02-24 10:42:35	jynkbot_	http://archive.raspberrypi.org/debian/dists/jessie/main/binary-armhf/Packages
2018-02-24 10:43:01	ShorTie	get it from http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/images/
2018-02-24 10:43:34	jynkbot_	yep
2018-02-24 10:43:38	jynkbot_	i got it from there...
2018-02-24 10:43:45	jynkbot_	still purple.
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2018-02-24 10:44:56	jynkbot_	I'm just gonna chalk it up to internet problems
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2018-02-24 10:46:33	ShorTie	roll back to 2017-06-23 then maybe
2018-02-24 10:49:03	jynkbot_	anyone tried using the Super Simple Raspberry Pi Audio Receiver package?
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2018-02-24 11:00:37	jynkbot_	is there a reason why alsamixer is throwing up a error?
2018-02-24 11:00:56	jynkbot_	alsamixer is throwing up a permission error?
2018-02-24 11:01:38	jynkbot_	I am using a USB soundcard
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2018-02-24 11:02:45	 *	ShorTie wonders, sure it has linux drivers
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2018-02-24 12:04:46	argoneus	woo, it just came home
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2018-02-24 12:04:57	argoneus	if I go with the minimal raspbian installation can I still install xfce or such on it?
2018-02-24 12:05:01	argoneus	later
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2018-02-24 12:08:22	ShorTie	sure
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2018-02-24 12:09:13	ShorTie	but most likely alot less headacks just to use full from the get go, imho
2018-02-24 12:10:27	argoneus	I don't know how much bloat the full one has
2018-02-24 12:10:34	argoneus	I don't really need 5000 file managers and whatnot
2018-02-24 12:10:58	argoneus	just want to be able to RDP into it every now and then
2018-02-24 12:11:16	ShorTie	oh it's got some bloat
2018-02-24 12:11:29	argoneus	minimal + xfce + rdp is all I need
2018-02-24 12:11:33	ShorTie	but nothing apt can't remove
2018-02-24 12:11:47	argoneus	just wondering if there's issues installing GUI to the minimal one
2018-02-24 12:11:49	argoneus	:<
2018-02-24 12:12:35	ShorTie	the full is like 5 parts in the build process
2018-02-24 12:12:53	ShorTie	lite is just the 1st 3 parts
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2018-02-24 12:17:15	ShorTie	here is most of the extra's,  https://github.com/RPi-Distro/pi-gen/blob/dev/stage4/00-install-packages/00-packages
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2018-02-24 12:23:19	argoneus	ah
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2018-02-24 12:23:42	argoneus	I just realized I want to isntall it headless but I don't have a spare ethernet cable
2018-02-24 12:23:43	argoneus	oops
2018-02-24 12:24:04	ShorTie	bummer
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2018-02-24 12:24:12	argoneus	I guess I'll just use my desktop's
2018-02-24 12:24:19	argoneus	it should install on its own, right
2018-02-24 12:24:44	ShorTie	install what ??
2018-02-24 12:24:50	argoneus	raspbian
2018-02-24 12:24:59	argoneus	from the image on the sd
2018-02-24 12:25:30	ShorTie	you use your desktop to write the image to the sdcard
2018-02-24 12:25:33	argoneus	yeah
2018-02-24 12:25:38	ShorTie	installation done
2018-02-24 12:25:41	argoneus	o
2018-02-24 12:25:49	argoneus	time to get some imaging tool
2018-02-24 12:26:04	ShorTie	headless, you nedd a ssh file though
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2018-02-24 12:26:16	ShorTie	to turn it on
2018-02-24 12:26:16	argoneus	right
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2018-02-24 12:40:22	vecnah	hi
2018-02-24 12:40:34	vecnah	I am having no display on noobs or raspbian
2018-02-24 12:40:49	vecnah	I tried to rewrite the sd card
2018-02-24 12:41:09	vecnah	this time I ll try to uncomment the force hotplug
2018-02-24 12:41:22	vecnah	help would be appreciated
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2018-02-24 12:42:07	 *	ShorTie wonders what kind of display
2018-02-24 12:42:12	clickboom	some people have problems with hdmi, but the pi still boots. is your pi connected to a network?
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2018-02-24 12:42:29	vecnah	yes but I can't ssh in
2018-02-24 12:42:42	vecnah	I see it gets the ip
2018-02-24 12:42:57	clickboom	did you touch ssh in the pi's boot partition?
2018-02-24 12:43:14	vecnah	no
2018-02-24 12:43:40	clickboom	if you do that, it will enable ssh. ssh is disabled by default.
2018-02-24 12:44:42	ShorTie	hdmi needs hooked up before boot to work
2018-02-24 12:44:49	vecnah	it is
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2018-02-24 12:47:11	jynkbot_	one question: if i were to have a January 2017 jessie
2018-02-24 12:47:15	jynkbot_	and i were to update it
2018-02-24 12:47:25	jynkbot_	it would become the latest version of jessie right?
2018-02-24 12:47:38	ShorTie	should
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2018-02-24 12:48:25	jynkbot_	what do you mean by should?
2018-02-24 12:50:13	ShorTie	not having the system in front of me, the best i can say is it should
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2018-02-24 12:51:20	vecnah	ok I sshed in
2018-02-24 12:51:28	vecnah	how can I troubleshoot the hdmi?
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2018-02-24 12:51:45	vecnah	I am hdmi_safe=1 right now
2018-02-24 12:52:29	ShorTie	maybe go into raspi-config and pick another ??
2018-02-24 12:52:31	clickboom	did you try things like https://howtoraspberrypi.com/raspberry-pi-hdmi-not-working/?
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2018-02-24 12:52:43	vecnah	clickboom, yes
2018-02-24 12:52:46	vecnah	both options
2018-02-24 12:52:49	vecnah	nothing works
2018-02-24 12:53:20	vecnah	I am trying a apt-get upgrade and reboot now
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2018-02-24 12:54:40	vecnah	creating the ssh file in /boot enabled ssh so it's running
2018-02-24 12:54:50	vecnah	but I can't seem to get the hdmi working
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2018-02-24 13:08:32	argoneus	wellllll
2018-02-24 13:08:33	argoneus	it booted
2018-02-24 13:08:36	argoneus	and I can ssh
2018-02-24 13:08:37	argoneus	rad
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2018-02-24 13:11:44	clickboom	vecnah: it says If despite all your attempts the Raspberry Pi still not display anithing on HDMI, it can come from a simple power supply problem. what are you doing for power supply? enough amps?
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2018-02-24 13:22:37	vecnah	I am using the provided power supply that came with the amazon kit
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2018-02-24 13:23:58	ShorTie	you using any kind of hdmi adapter ??
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2018-02-24 13:25:09	jynkbot	have u tried with diffrent HDMI port
2018-02-24 13:25:12	jynkbot	or HDMI cable
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2018-02-24 13:26:05	vecnah	yes different cables and screens
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2018-02-24 13:26:55	jynkbot	is there a sd card in the slot?
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2018-02-24 13:27:48	jynkbot	and what amazon kit?
2018-02-24 13:29:07	vecnah	this one https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B01CI58722/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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2018-02-24 13:29:33	vecnah	I can boot into noobs as I got no display
2018-02-24 13:29:39	jynkbot	wait...
2018-02-24 13:29:44	jynkbot	you got into noobs?
2018-02-24 13:29:47	vecnah	no
2018-02-24 13:29:51	jynkbot	and then...black screeen?
2018-02-24 13:29:53	vecnah	I installed a raspbain
2018-02-24 13:29:56	vecnah	yes
2018-02-24 13:30:10	vecnah	I can ssh in raspbian
2018-02-24 13:30:24	jynkbot	you are not using a converter right?
2018-02-24 13:30:35	jynkbot	as in
2018-02-24 13:30:56	vecnah	yes but I also tried another power supply I have
2018-02-24 13:31:06	vecnah	nothing seem to work
2018-02-24 13:31:32	jynkbot	try a fresh copy of respbian?
2018-02-24 13:31:34	vecnah	I don't know if bluetooth and wifi are enabled by default
2018-02-24 13:31:40	vecnah	it's fresh
2018-02-24 13:31:48	jynkbot	get a new copy online?
2018-02-24 13:31:51	vecnah	and upgraded up to date
2018-02-24 13:31:54	ShorTie	wifi needs a file
2018-02-24 13:31:58	vecnah	I got the latest
2018-02-24 13:32:07	jynkbot	nothing to do with wifi tho
2018-02-24 13:32:21	ShorTie	you using any kind of hdmi adapter ??
2018-02-24 13:32:22	jynkbot	wait
2018-02-24 13:32:25	jynkbot	yeah
2018-02-24 13:32:27	vecnah	well I supposed if its the power supply I could get more into the hdmi
2018-02-24 13:32:28	jynkbot	hdmi adapter
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2018-02-24 13:32:36	vecnah	no adapter
2018-02-24 13:32:44	vecnah	regular 1.4 cable
2018-02-24 13:32:45	jynkbot	so its raw HDMI feed?
2018-02-24 13:33:01	vecnah	raw hdmi
2018-02-24 13:33:16	jynkbot	pi --> hdmi wire --> adapter to DVI/VGA --> monitor?
2018-02-24 13:33:23	<--	Rolfs (~rolf@cm-84.208.215.211.getinternet.no) has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2018-02-24 13:33:24	vecnah	no
2018-02-24 13:33:34	vecnah	pi -> hdmi wire -> monitor
2018-02-24 13:34:01	vecnah	and I tried both on my 720p tv and currently on this 1080p samsung monitor
2018-02-24 13:34:07	vecnah	and got no luck with both
2018-02-24 13:34:17	jynkbot	try a fresh respbian
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2018-02-24 13:35:04	jynkbot	i don't think its hardware fault
2018-02-24 13:35:05	<--	llorephie (~llorephie@2001:470:5a32::9ea) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2018-02-24 13:35:13	jynkbot	it is definately resbian prolem
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2018-02-24 13:36:43	vecnah	why would noobs fail then?
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2018-02-24 13:37:06	jynkbot	maybe its a bad copy?
2018-02-24 13:37:09	jynkbot	bad sd card?
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2018-02-24 13:37:21	vecnah	I formatted it like 10 times
2018-02-24 13:37:32	vecnah	including slow format and got no io errors
2018-02-24 13:37:58	jynkbot	hm.
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2018-02-24 13:38:40	jynkbot	is the yellow light blinking?
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2018-02-24 13:39:13	vecnah	no
2018-02-24 13:39:35	jynkbot	i mean
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2018-02-24 13:39:40	jynkbot	like when its booting
2018-02-24 13:39:50	jynkbot	there is a red and another yellow-ish/orange light
2018-02-24 13:39:53	vecnah	yes it's a green light and it's blinking
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2018-02-24 13:40:54	milk	any thoughts/recommendations on an hdmi to rca phono device? i'm considering forgoing a dac hat and using hdmi audio instead, making it upgrade proof.
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2018-02-24 13:42:56	vecnah	this pi isn't meant to be used with hdmi
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2018-02-24 13:43:15	vecnah	but for buyer sake I would like to know it can do hdmi
2018-02-24 13:43:26	vecnah	my pi 1 does
2018-02-24 13:43:27	jynkbot	  im not even sure what that means
2018-02-24 13:43:32	jynkbot	which pi is it?
2018-02-24 13:43:40	vecnah	I mean I paid to have a hdmi working
2018-02-24 13:43:45	vecnah	I would like it to work
2018-02-24 13:43:59	vecnah	my second pi is a pi 1 model B+
2018-02-24 13:44:13	vecnah	this one is a pi 3 mobel B
2018-02-24 13:44:23	jynkbot	can you take the sd card from the pi 1 and put it inside pi 3?
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2018-02-24 13:44:40	vecnah	no it's a regular sd
2018-02-24 13:44:46	vecnah	pi3 used microsd
2018-02-24 13:47:27	vecnah	I really start to think this is a hardware problem
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2018-02-24 13:50:22	gordonDrogon	milk, there are HDMI to VGA adapters that bring out the audio on a 3.5mm socket.
2018-02-24 13:51:29	gordonDrogon	milk, https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-hdmi-to-vga-converter <-- out of stock, but there might be others..
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2018-02-24 13:52:38	gordonDrogon	when the Pi boots, it will pick the HDMI output if it detects a turned-on and working HDMI monitor.
2018-02-24 13:53:01	gordonDrogon	if no HDMI is dtected then it falls back to using the compost output.
2018-02-24 13:53:32	gordonDrogon	there is a setting in /boot/config.txt you can change to force hdmi output regardless though, so editing that file might be a start.
2018-02-24 13:54:00	vecnah	WARN::hcd_init_fiq:459: FIQ on core 1 at 0x8058f5b0
2018-02-24 13:54:09	vecnah	I got that in dmesg
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2018-02-24 13:55:38	gordonDrogon	I get something like that too on a Pi I just checked.
2018-02-24 13:55:42	<--	ShorTie (~Idiot@unaffiliated/shortie) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2018-02-24 13:55:53	gordonDrogon	and that Pi has no HDMI monitor connected.
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2018-02-24 13:56:04	milk	gordonDrogon; ah, so might i'd need an active hdmi/monitor for hdmi audio to be on?
2018-02-24 13:56:09	vecnah	I am going to try a third power sypply
2018-02-24 13:56:34	gordonDrogon	milk, look in /boot/config.txt for settings to force hdmi and audio ..
2018-02-24 13:57:01	milk	gordonDrogon; ah, sorry, misread
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2018-02-24 13:57:36	milk	gordonDrogon; i was thinking a slightly higher dac quality also, as it would be to forgo a dedicated dac hat. but i can dig around..
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2018-02-24 13:58:02	milk	thanks
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2018-02-24 14:02:05	vecnah	modprobe: FATAL: Module g2d_23 not found in directory /lib/modules/4.9.59-v7+
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2018-02-24 14:12:59	argoneus	can someone help me figure out a setup?
2018-02-24 14:13:15	argoneus	I want to connect my rpi to my TV via HDMI, run a desktop session on that and be able to remote desktop it from other computers
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2018-02-24 14:13:28	argoneus	do I "just" need to setup tightvnc or such?
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2018-02-24 14:13:29	argoneus	or is it trickier
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2018-02-24 14:18:12	r3	well if you think of your TV as just another monitor, it's a simple remote desktop solution, so yeah, VNC is a popular choice
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2018-02-24 14:44:28	vecnah	tried a fresh raspbian install
2018-02-24 14:44:32	vecnah	doesn't work
2018-02-24 14:44:45	vecnah	I am about sure the hdmi port is deffective
2018-02-24 14:45:05	vecnah	I tried on another screen with another hdmi cable too
2018-02-24 14:45:20	vecnah	anyway it was meant to be a small network server
2018-02-24 14:45:31	vecnah	so I won't send it back
2018-02-24 14:45:42	vecnah	just I am quite unhappy
2018-02-24 14:46:01	vecnah	X never seemed to start on this pi
2018-02-24 14:46:28	clickboom	for a small network server, how would a lite install with no gui be a problem?
2018-02-24 14:46:41	vecnah	it's not a problem
2018-02-24 14:47:05	vecnah	but if I ever wanted to change its purpose I wouldn't be able to
2018-02-24 14:47:55	vecnah	I got 2 pi 1 model b+ both had noobs working
2018-02-24 14:48:08	vecnah	this one won't start anything graphic
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2018-02-24 14:49:54	clickboom	vecnah: i would think of a gui as a disadvantage for a server.
2018-02-24 14:50:32	vecnah	I agree with you
2018-02-24 14:50:55	vecnah	I had to trick the installer tho
2018-02-24 14:51:18	vecnah	and I am 100% sure about the sd and the image I used
2018-02-24 14:51:27	vecnah	so it must be hardware
2018-02-24 14:51:38	vecnah	looks like I tried everything in the raspi-config
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2018-02-24 15:02:33	jynkbot_	is there a GUI for a lamp stack?
2018-02-24 15:02:37	jynkbot_	like something in windows and mac?
2018-02-24 15:02:48	jynkbot_	like something i can turn off and on.
2018-02-24 15:03:36	vecnah	no real reason for one
2018-02-24 15:03:42	vecnah	just turn apache on and off
2018-02-24 15:04:32	milk	argoneus; might wanna check x2go if you haven't already
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2018-02-24 15:07:09	jynkbot_	yeah but is there something simpler?
2018-02-24 15:07:15	jynkbot_	i wanna show it in class actualyl
2018-02-24 15:07:29	jynkbot_	like XXAMP but for linux
2018-02-24 15:11:17	vecnah	class should learn about console
2018-02-24 15:11:34	vecnah	there is no point in being under linux if you don't use terminal/console
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2018-02-24 15:13:28	caoliver	Don't be a command line snob!
2018-02-24 15:13:37	 *	ShorTie snickers
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2018-02-24 15:14:52	caoliver	Everyone should have to control their computers with decks from an 029 keypunch.
2018-02-24 15:15:12	caoliver	Different mode for different folks.  All good!
2018-02-24 15:15:54	 *	caoliver started with real terminals and had to use a keypunch at uni.
2018-02-24 15:16:07	 *	ShorTie 2
2018-02-24 15:16:27	 *	r3 had to scratch 1s and 0s in the chips by hand
2018-02-24 15:16:38	ali1234	jynkbot_ for what OS?
2018-02-24 15:18:03	caoliver	MTS, RT-11, RSTS/E, Burroughs CANDE/MCP, some IBM thingie briefly.  (Hated COBOL)
2018-02-24 15:18:31	ShorTie	Pascal rulez
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2018-02-24 15:18:39	caoliver	Sorry.  I thought you asked me.
2018-02-24 15:18:39	r3	as well you should.  Real programmers used FORTRAN.  For everything.  ;)
2018-02-24 15:19:28	 *	caoliver had a summer job on a PR1ME.  Everything was in FORTRAN IV.
2018-02-24 15:20:37	caoliver	http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~cs655/readings/bwk-on-pascal.html
2018-02-24 15:20:54	ali1234	XAMPP is available for linux
2018-02-24 15:22:46	caoliver	I'd have expected that it would have an origin on Linux.
2018-02-24 15:23:08	ali1234	the control panel is not available
2018-02-24 15:23:19	ali1234	you have to start and stop it from the command line. it's all in the FAQ
2018-02-24 15:23:51	caoliver	Or a script.
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2018-02-24 15:27:23	gordonDrogon	caoliver, Please. This is a family friendly group. No swearing. (the word with 1 in it)
2018-02-24 15:27:47	ali1234	RT-11?
2018-02-24 15:28:20	gordonDrogon	not that one. at least that OS wasn't (initially) written in FORTRAN.
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2018-02-24 15:28:55	gordonDrogon	I had the displeasure of having to use pr0mos while at uni for some years.
2018-02-24 15:29:06	caoliver	RT-11.  Real time monitor of DEC PDP-11s/
2018-02-24 15:29:19	caoliver	You have my sympathy.
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2018-02-24 15:30:20	gordonDrogon	I'd sneak off and get my hands on a PDP11/40 that lurked in a corner running Unix 6.
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2018-02-24 15:31:19	caoliver	All my PDP-11 usage was under DEC proprietary OSes.  The small school where I used those didn't have a UNIX box back then.
2018-02-24 15:32:14	gordonDrogon	I did a lot of stuff in Pascal too. Not a big fan of it, but at the time it filled a need for a good high level language on 8-bit micros (ucsd-pascal)
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2018-02-24 15:32:51	caoliver	I had to use Pascal for school.  It was an official teaching language in too many places.
2018-02-24 15:33:40	caoliver	I don't think I did anything but BASIC or assembler on the tiny toys.
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2018-02-24 15:34:06	gordonDrogon	writing a pascal compiler is somewhere on my to-do list ... fairly far down though.
2018-02-24 15:34:13	caoliver	I did a lot of Z80 stuff on KayPros.
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2018-02-24 15:34:46	red9	"too many places.
2018-02-24 15:34:52	red9	" ;)
2018-02-24 15:34:57	caoliver	My sick language rainy day thing is writing a BASIC interpreter in PostScript that interacts via the printer's status readback.
2018-02-24 15:35:24	gordonDrogon	well postscript is just forth of sorts..
2018-02-24 15:36:02	red9	sorts of? how tightly related are they?
2018-02-24 15:36:25	jynkbot_	ali1234 for Rasbian
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2018-02-24 15:36:33	argoneus	does chromium in pixel not support gpu acceleration?
2018-02-24 15:37:08	caoliver	They're both stack languages.  PS has a ton of display primitives in the dictionary.  Also, there's a lot of dictionary layering primitives.
2018-02-24 15:37:12	jynkbot_	what is the current "popular" choice for windows 10 based single board?
2018-02-24 15:37:16	red9	Postscript sounds like prone to become a language that have virus written for it. Printer to printer speaking so to say. ;)
2018-02-24 15:37:31	caoliver	FORTH (not much real use for me) is far more minimal.
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2018-02-24 15:38:15	red9	jynkbot_, why use Windows at all when there are plenty of other choices?
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2018-02-24 15:38:21	caoliver	One of my printers goes into la la land if you send it a PostScript loop.  You need to power cycle it.
2018-02-24 15:38:24	caoliver	Bletch!2
2018-02-24 15:38:36	jynkbot_	red9, no reason, i am just curious.
2018-02-24 15:38:40	gordonDrogon	red9, too late - people have already written 'viruses' in postscript and ran them on printers.
2018-02-24 15:39:29	red9	gordonDrogon, Did they suceed to go organisation to organisation? and if not what made them fail?
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2018-02-24 15:40:27	red9	btw.. Seems srv.datagutt1.com is still down. Time to put up a alternative?
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2018-02-24 15:41:32	red9	Seems printers now are heading to interpretate PDF nativly. Dunno what the benefit in that is really. Besides Adobe getting to use some patents against users.
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2018-02-24 15:42:25	mlelstv	pdf is just a kind of postscript, so there is no differerence.
2018-02-24 15:42:57	red9	Does .pdf support any kind of language by default?
2018-02-24 15:43:02	red9	ie virus'able?
2018-02-24 15:43:14	mlelstv	pdf is postscript
2018-02-24 15:43:24	caoliver	I thought PDF was less a straight-up programming language.
2018-02-24 15:43:39	caoliver	I'd rather drive a PS or PS emu printer.
2018-02-24 15:44:25	jynkbot_	any suggestions for a windows single board?
2018-02-24 15:44:26	gordonDrogon	red9, no idea - google will be your friend if you want to know more.
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2018-02-24 15:45:21	caoliver	jynkbot_, why?  Is the OS mandated by external needs?
2018-02-24 15:45:51	 *	caoliver has one XP MV he uses for a couple of vendor specific programs.
2018-02-24 15:45:54	gordonDrogon	jynkbot_, you're asking about windows in a Linux/Raspberry Pi channel - it is true that there is a version of Windows IoT for the Pi, however it's not Windows 10.
2018-02-24 15:45:55	red9	caoliver, You think a PS file is easier to generate and interpretate?
2018-02-24 15:45:58	caoliver	s/MV/VM/
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2018-02-24 15:46:32	jynkbot_	actually I'm super curious if it does exist. I just saw a ad for lattepanda on a pi site
2018-02-24 15:46:46	caoliver	I've written enough PS by hand.  I can't imagine doing PDF by hand.  I'd need a library.
2018-02-24 15:46:56	red9	Could someone send https://twitter.com/datagutt a message that his logbot is down and need some hands-on?
2018-02-24 15:47:25	gordonDrogon	red9, why don't you?
2018-02-24 15:47:37	red9	Seems .pdf native printers will suck.
2018-02-24 15:47:47	red9	gordonDrogon, no twitter.
2018-02-24 15:47:58	gordonDrogon	We have a Brother printer here - I sent if PDFs all the time. It prints them just fine.
2018-02-24 15:48:09	caoliver	pdf native isn't a checkbox for me, but PS (Adobe or emu) is.
2018-02-24 15:48:21	red9	gordonDrogon, Their policy and behaviour doesn't impress me either.
2018-02-24 15:48:32	caoliver	How's Brother's PS emulation?
2018-02-24 15:48:36	gordonDrogon	however I don't know (nor care) if it's my local CUPS that's doing any sort of translation, etc. on it. I just type: lpr filename.pdf and it works.
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2018-02-24 15:49:12	gordonDrogon	I use it to print labels from glabels and documents generated by LaTeX.
2018-02-24 15:49:13	mlelstv	do you know a PDF printer that doesn't print PS ?
2018-02-24 15:49:17	caoliver	I suspect your CUPS is filtering it to PS or some Brother specific binary.
2018-02-24 15:49:33	gordonDrogon	it may well be, but I don't care. It Just Works.
2018-02-24 15:49:38	red9	gordonDrogon, If you need to implement a printer in any way. Avoiding complicated languages is benefit.
2018-02-24 15:49:45	argoneus	are there any issues with enabling the GL support in raspi config?
2018-02-24 15:49:46	caoliver	The last printer I bought was an HP CP1518NI, so I'm somewhat out of the loop.
2018-02-24 15:49:51	argoneus	like, things burning down
2018-02-24 15:49:53	gordonDrogon	I will not be implementing a printer.
2018-02-24 15:50:17	red9	others might..
2018-02-24 15:50:22	gordonDrogon	argoneus, buy a Pi. Play with it. Come back with more questions.
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2018-02-24 15:50:29	red9	Say a direct gerber -> laminate
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2018-02-24 15:50:40	caoliver	I'm not done printer firmware, but my LPRng backend talks to a couple of HPs, so I need to know the warts.
2018-02-24 15:50:41	argoneus	gordonDrogon: I literally have my pi on my lap right now
2018-02-24 15:50:45	gordonDrogon	I email gerbers to PCB fabs.
2018-02-24 15:50:47	argoneus	what do you want
2018-02-24 15:50:55	caoliver	s/I'm not/I've not/
2018-02-24 15:51:04	gordonDrogon	argoneus, oh - great - you ordered it yesterday then?
2018-02-24 15:51:07	argoneus	yes
2018-02-24 15:51:15	caoliver	I avoid CUPS as it seems bloats and feature creeped to me.
2018-02-24 15:51:16	argoneus	and I don't get what that has to do with my isse
2018-02-24 15:51:19	argoneus	issue, even
2018-02-24 15:51:33	caoliver	bloated
2018-02-24 15:51:34	gordonDrogon	well - I'd suggest just using it for a while and not being concerned about stuff like overclocking, GL, etc. for now.
2018-02-24 15:51:38	red9	argoneus, I can think that GL might require specific driver support in the OS.
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2018-02-24 15:51:41	argoneus	well
2018-02-24 15:51:54	argoneus	I wanted to try playing a video on it and it's extremely choppy and takes the temp to 70s C
2018-02-24 15:52:02	gordonDrogon	argoneus, and FWIW: I've been using Pi's for nearly 6 years now and have never looked at GL, Open, ES or otherwise.
2018-02-24 15:52:02	argoneus	which seems like that shouldn't be happening
2018-02-24 15:52:27	argoneus	and it seems the browser doesn't have any GPU acceleration
2018-02-24 15:52:28	caoliver	Video's a lot of data schlepping.  That sounds reasonable to me.
2018-02-24 15:52:29	gordonDrogon	what are you using to play the video?
2018-02-24 15:52:35	argoneus	the default chromium
2018-02-24 15:53:01	gordonDrogon	that won't use the hardware. Try a command-line thing (name of which I forget)
2018-02-24 15:53:04	red9	argoneus, try mplayer ..
2018-02-24 15:53:08	argoneus	omxplayer etc, right
2018-02-24 15:53:14	gordonDrogon	omxplayer - that's the one.
2018-02-24 15:53:26	argoneus	I just wanted to set up a thing where other people in my family can just connect to it and play random videos to the TV
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2018-02-24 15:53:31	argoneus	I can use omxplayer but they can't
2018-02-24 15:53:33	argoneus	woops
2018-02-24 15:53:48	gordonDrogon	sudo apt-get install kodi
2018-02-24 15:54:11	gordonDrogon	argoneus, got the temp. sensor working yet?
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2018-02-24 15:54:17	argoneus	that didn't arrive yet
2018-02-24 15:54:33	argoneus	I'm just tinkering with the machine itself for now
2018-02-24 15:54:38	argoneus	and set up wifi etc
2018-02-24 15:55:14	gordonDrogon	as for printing - it seems to be the one thing that's gotten harder and harder from a programs point of view. The last time I had to generate a pretty output thingy I used a program to fill in the blanks in a pre-prepared LaTeX form I'd made and threw that at the system. Time before, I outout html and let a web browser deal with it.
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2018-02-24 15:56:08	argoneus	as for Kodi
2018-02-24 15:56:16	argoneus	can that be used normally through VNC or do I need some special setup?
2018-02-24 15:56:27	gordonDrogon	kodi is a medial player thing.
2018-02-24 15:56:36	argoneus	ah
2018-02-24 15:56:42	argoneus	I thought it was its own "desktop"
2018-02-24 15:56:46	gordonDrogon	you use the TVs remote control or a mobile phone to control it.
2018-02-24 15:56:47	argoneus	like a mini-OS
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2018-02-24 15:56:52	gordonDrogon	it has.
2018-02-24 15:57:03	gordonDrogon	it's like a set-top-box thing.
2018-02-24 15:57:07	argoneus	oh, hm
2018-02-24 15:57:16	gordonDrogon	there are some distros that just do kodi and nothing else too.
2018-02-24 15:57:32	argoneus	wew, I'll try that then
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2018-02-24 15:58:13	gordonDrogon	I'm sure others may suggest some other way - I'm not really into media stuff on the Pi.
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2018-02-24 16:08:43	clickboom	https://libreelec.tv/
2018-02-24 16:10:02	caoliver	Now with extra cats!
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2018-02-24 16:10:47	zleap	OSMC, KODI i think
2018-02-24 16:10:50	zleap	media centre stuff
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2018-02-24 16:11:16	zleap	oh and libreelec
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2018-02-24 16:14:48	mtk2001	waveform : Thanks for your info on piccam live streaming. It works well within my lan. I can not, however, stream beyond my lan to want. My phone connects but no video.
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2018-02-24 16:15:51	waveform	mtk2001, have you forwarded the necessary ports on your router?
2018-02-24 16:16:06	waveform	there should be two: one for the HTTP server, one for the websocket (which is what handles the video data)
2018-02-24 16:17:27	mtk2001	I have forwarded Port 8082 do  need to  forward another?
2018-02-24 16:17:33	waveform	yup - 8084 if I recall correctly
2018-02-24 16:17:41	waveform	there's a couple of tickets in the repo about it, just a sec
2018-02-24 16:17:49	waveform	https://github.com/waveform80/pistreaming/issues/22
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2018-02-24 16:18:52	mtk2001	waveform : OK thanks again. I will try it. Good work. I have been struggling with this for weeks.
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2018-02-24 16:18:56	waveform	ah yes, now I recall - since #22 is fixed it should just be a matter of getting both ports forwarded and that should work
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2018-02-24 16:20:16	waveform	incidentally, if you get hold of a pimoroni pantilthat there's a branch of the repo specifically for controlling it via the web interface :)
2018-02-24 16:20:18	mtk2001	Ok thanks again
2018-02-24 16:20:20	waveform	no prob
2018-02-24 16:20:42	argoneus	I just realized
2018-02-24 16:20:53	argoneus	am I correct in thinking that I can just have a bunch of SD cards and boot into whatever I need?
2018-02-24 16:21:02	waveform	yup - the joys of removable storage
2018-02-24 16:21:06	argoneus	oh wew
2018-02-24 16:21:13	argoneus	so I can have a dev SD, a retro game SD, a multimedia SD
2018-02-24 16:21:21	argoneus	and just need to reboot
2018-02-24 16:21:39	argoneus	that's neat.
2018-02-24 16:22:07	waveform	precisely what I do (well, got a dev SD, a clean "test" SD, an "ancient" dev SD for testing on old releases, etc.)
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2018-02-24 16:22:41	gordonDrogon	just remember to shutdown and power off before changing SD card.
2018-02-24 16:22:51	argoneus	right
2018-02-24 16:22:57	argoneus	oh, one thing I noticed
2018-02-24 16:23:11	argoneus	when I do shutdown halt, the pi doesn't really... shut down I think?
2018-02-24 16:23:20	gordonDrogon	no - it can't.
2018-02-24 16:23:21	argoneus	the power LED is still on even though there's no reason for it to be (no battery)
2018-02-24 16:23:34	gordonDrogon	just watch the green led - when it startsto flash (about 10 times) then you can pull the plug.
2018-02-24 16:23:47	argoneus	ah.
2018-02-24 16:24:02	gordonDrogon	there wasn't the budget for "proper" power-off hardwae.
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2018-02-24 16:24:20	argoneus	:thinking:
2018-02-24 16:24:43	gordonDrogon	however when halted it still draws less power than a PC turned off which still has a standby 5v signal going to the motherboard...
2018-02-24 16:24:55	argoneus	hmm
2018-02-24 16:25:01	gordonDrogon	actually, probably when running too...
2018-02-24 16:25:03	argoneus	this means that I don't need a desktop environment at all for my dev purposes
2018-02-24 16:25:05	argoneus	or VNC or anything
2018-02-24 16:25:23	argoneus	nor do I need anything like that for libreelec, since that's just on the TV
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2018-02-24 16:25:36	argoneus	huh.
2018-02-24 16:25:47	gordonDrogon	my work PC runs Linux...
2018-02-24 16:25:58	 *	Tenkawa 's too
2018-02-24 16:26:03	gordonDrogon	as do my laptops and they all run the same GUI/window thing.
2018-02-24 16:26:15	gordonDrogon	local/vnc/ssh - it's all the same.
2018-02-24 16:26:18	gordonDrogon	(to me)
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2018-02-24 16:26:23	 *	Tenkawa 's has a lot of vm's
2018-02-24 16:27:19	Tenkawa	handles most of my needs
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2018-02-24 16:28:15	jynkbot_	hey guys
2018-02-24 16:28:16	jynkbot_	question:
2018-02-24 16:28:23	Tenkawa	I have a win10 64 bit native boot image sitting on here just in case i need to boot to it for something
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2018-02-24 16:28:33	jynkbot_	with pulse audio, the control has been removed from alsamixer right?
2018-02-24 16:28:35	jynkbot_	so
2018-02-24 16:28:45	jynkbot_	i need to find a fronted for pulse audio?
2018-02-24 16:29:52	gordonDrogon	you mean a mixer/volume control?
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2018-02-24 16:31:30	jynkbot_	yeah
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2018-02-24 16:33:54	gordonDrogon	I think I'm using pavucontrol on my desktop.
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2018-02-24 16:34:19	gordonDrogon	that's my x86 desktop - it's probably the same on a Pi, but who knows.
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2018-02-24 16:36:16	shauno	huh, magpi came with a coverdisk of desktop rasbian.  are they really trying to make that happen?
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2018-02-24 16:38:27	jynkbot_	so where does alsamixer fit into thi?
2018-02-24 16:38:35	jynkbot_	is it depreciated?
2018-02-24 16:38:44	gordonDrogon	I think so.
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2018-02-24 16:55:41	Alexander-47u	hi guys, just soldered my first sensor, the AM2302 and I think I messed up
2018-02-24 16:55:49	Alexander-47u	not getting any output from the pins
2018-02-24 16:55:58	Alexander-47u	is there any tool in raspbian to test the pins?
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2018-02-24 17:02:23	akk	Alexander-47u: All you can do is try to talk to the sensor. The Pi can't tell if solder connections are good, just if it sees signals on its pins.
2018-02-24 17:02:48	Alexander-47u	well it doesnt xD
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2018-02-24 17:02:59	argoneus	hm
2018-02-24 17:03:06	argoneus	any idea if the hdmi cable that comes with the rpi kit supports CEC?
2018-02-24 17:03:07	akk	And you had it working before you soldered it?
2018-02-24 17:03:11	argoneus	my remote isn't working at all
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2018-02-24 17:03:56	jurgis	Hey guys, need some help over here. I have made a python app and now i'm trying to make a desktop shortcut for it but it keeps giving me the same error: "Invalid desktop entry file". What should i do?
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2018-02-24 17:05:01	Alexander-47u	akk, no Im a noob that just soldered it right away xD
2018-02-24 17:05:03	jurgis	btw same desktop entry file worked fine on my other raspberry
2018-02-24 17:05:18	Alexander-47u	to raspberry pi zero
2018-02-24 17:05:32	akk	Alexander-47u: That is why people use breadboards. :)
2018-02-24 17:05:59	akk	Alexander-47u: But chances are, your problem is in talking to the chip, not in the solder connections.
2018-02-24 17:07:04	gordonDrogon	Alexander-47u, oh, you're here. Got a photo or a diagram of hoe you soldered it?
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2018-02-24 17:07:20	Alexander-47u	yes
2018-02-24 17:07:32	Alexander-47u	https://www.jonkermedia.nl/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/DHTRaspberry-768x571.png
2018-02-24 17:07:37	gordonDrogon	there is a simple command-line tool you can use.
2018-02-24 17:08:06	jurgis	Can anyone help with my desktop entry? :D
2018-02-24 17:08:06	gordonDrogon	ok, you don't need the resistor with that sensor, but it probably wont hurt.
2018-02-24 17:08:14	Alexander-47u	im already SSH'd into the pi so
2018-02-24 17:08:24	Alexander-47u	ye I actually bought this thing with a resistor already in it
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2018-02-24 17:08:40	akk	sorry, jurgis, maybe nobody's around who uses the desktop. I use my Pis headless.
2018-02-24 17:08:40	gordonDrogon	yes.
2018-02-24 17:08:57	Alexander-47u	https://www.kiwi-electronics.nl/AM2302-bedrade-DHT22-temperatuur-vochtigheidssensor?search=dht22
2018-02-24 17:09:25	gordonDrogon	ok, so it's connected to physical pin 15?
2018-02-24 17:09:28	Alexander-47u	yes
2018-02-24 17:09:45	Alexander-47u	thats gpio pin 22 right
2018-02-24 17:09:52	jurgis	damn :D I'm making an app for a customer, that uses camera, so i kind of need desktop :D
2018-02-24 17:10:02	Alexander-47u	jurgis
2018-02-24 17:10:08	Alexander-47u	what do you mean with desktop entry?
2018-02-24 17:10:19	gordonDrogon	right- try this: gpio -g rht03:100:22 aread 100
2018-02-24 17:10:26	jurgis	it's like a shortcut in windows
2018-02-24 17:10:53	jurgis	*.desktop file, that i use to run .py script
2018-02-24 17:10:58	Alexander-47u	gpio: Unknown command: rht03:100:22
2018-02-24 17:11:01	Alexander-47u	is what I receive
2018-02-24 17:11:02	gordonDrogon	the rht is the same as the dht is the same as the am2302.
2018-02-24 17:11:11	Alexander-47u	ohh
2018-02-24 17:11:18	gordonDrogon	sorry -  gpio -g -x rht03:100:22 aread 100
2018-02-24 17:11:19	Alexander-47u	jurgis, that is called a symbolic link.
2018-02-24 17:11:23	gordonDrogon	I missed the -x
2018-02-24 17:11:39	Alexander-47u	but you will have to make it executable
2018-02-24 17:12:09	Alexander-47u	you can also create a desktop launcher that launches a command
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2018-02-24 17:13:20	Alexander-47u	http://xmodulo.com/create-desktop-shortcut-launcher-linux.html
2018-02-24 17:13:31	Alexander-47u	it says
2018-02-24 17:13:34	Alexander-47u	-9998
2018-02-24 17:13:47	gordonDrogon	try it a couple of times...
2018-02-24 17:13:54	Alexander-47u	now 208
2018-02-24 17:14:03	Alexander-47u	207
2018-02-24 17:14:08	gordonDrogon	ok, thats 20.8°C
2018-02-24 17:14:15	gordonDrogon	if you try:
2018-02-24 17:14:21	gordonDrogon	gpio -g -x rht03:100:22 aread 101
2018-02-24 17:14:25	jurgis	Alexander-47u: not exactly what i need, desktop entry actually runs the .py file, while symlink is just a shortcut to the script
2018-02-24 17:14:26	gordonDrogon	that reads the humidity x10.
2018-02-24 17:14:45	Alexander-47u	jurgis, yes check the second one, I was to quick to answer
2018-02-24 17:15:14	Alexander-47u	but the desktop entry you are talking about is desktop environment specific
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2018-02-24 17:15:32	Alexander-47u	now says, 219, 220
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2018-02-24 17:15:46	gordonDrogon	what  - 100 or 101?
2018-02-24 17:15:56	gordonDrogon	100 is temp x 10, 101 is humidity x10
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2018-02-24 17:16:16	gordonDrogon	those sensors are cheap and cheerfull. don't expect them to give good accurate readings.
2018-02-24 17:16:33	gordonDrogon	the return of -9998 means data checksum error.
2018-02-24 17:16:43	Alexander-47u	the 101, says 220
2018-02-24 17:16:54	Alexander-47u	and 100 says 208
2018-02-24 17:16:55	gordonDrogon	22% RH - seems a bit low, but ...
2018-02-24 17:17:03	Alexander-47u	yes my house is terribly dry
2018-02-24 17:17:07	Alexander-47u	gets lots of headache xD
2018-02-24 17:17:09	gordonDrogon	oh maybe it's right then.
2018-02-24 17:17:23	jurgis	the second one is the desktop entry, the very first line says [Desktop entry]. It is what i need, but I dont get wky it is not working
2018-02-24 17:17:32	Alexander-47u	that is the purpose of this project, want to see if my heater is causing me troubles
2018-02-24 17:17:39	gordonDrogon	try: while true; do gpio -g -x rht03:100:22 aread 100 ; sleep 1 ; done
2018-02-24 17:17:50	akk	22% is fairly humid here :)
2018-02-24 17:18:04	gordonDrogon	then see if the temp goes up when you hold it and goes down when you fan it (use a bit of card, etc.)
2018-02-24 17:18:23	Alexander-47u	so
2018-02-24 17:18:24	gordonDrogon	those sensors don't like being read more than once a second or so.
2018-02-24 17:18:45	Alexander-47u	gordonDrogon, thanks allot m8 !
2018-02-24 17:18:52	Alexander-47u	so I dont even need the adafruit libraries eh?
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2018-02-24 17:18:56	gordonDrogon	and if that's works then you know it's working OK - you can now look at the software.
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2018-02-24 17:19:18	gordonDrogon	it's up to you. wiringPi supports it - the gpio command is a test utility for wiringPi.
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2018-02-24 17:19:43	Alexander-47u	oh ye ofcourse, it would be dumb to use that in my scripts I guess xD
2018-02-24 17:19:53	gordonDrogon	but you can do a lot with simple shell scripts and the gpio command...
2018-02-24 17:20:03	Alexander-47u	gordonDrogon, that is what I was thinking
2018-02-24 17:20:22	gordonDrogon	so you could for example log to a file in CSV format then import that into gnuplot or a spreadsheet and so on.
2018-02-24 17:20:27	Alexander-47u	but I am very new to all of this IoT stuff, so I want to keep it as normal as possible
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2018-02-24 17:20:56	gordonDrogon	sometimes you don't need to write programs to do simple stuff - the power of unix and all that.
2018-02-24 17:21:39	Alexander-47u	gordonDrogon, ye, I'm fairly comfortable with bash, I am not worried about that part at all.
2018-02-24 17:22:26	Alexander-47u	but thanks allot gordonDrogon, you really set my mind at ease
2018-02-24 17:22:31	Alexander-47u	I thought that I soldered wrong
2018-02-24 17:22:44	jurgis	solved my problem, that was kind of stupid :D
2018-02-24 17:22:54	Alexander-47u	and somebody in the raspbian channel responded that there is no way to test the gpio pins in raspbian O_O
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2018-02-24 17:23:24	gordonDrogon	well there is a way - at least easy for inputs - you use the internal pull up/down resistors with nothing connected and read the pin states...
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2018-02-24 17:23:48	gordonDrogon	for output mode - you just connect up an LED - the gpio program can set all these modes, blink LED,s etc.
2018-02-24 17:25:15	Alexander-47u	ye, but the command you gave me is more than perfect and actually exactly what I was looking for.
2018-02-24 17:25:21	jurgis	is there any way to test a camera, or wifi module? I think it touched one each other, and shorten out one another, if it only power chip i could solder a new one, but have no idea how to check it
2018-02-24 17:25:33	Alexander-47u	i expect this much from linux based systems.
2018-02-24 17:28:48	akk	jurgis: For testing the camera I usually use raspistill.
2018-02-24 17:29:16	akk	For the wifi, I'd start with iwconfig
2018-02-24 17:29:28	akk	(or whatever newer thing is supposed to replace iwconfig that I always forget)
2018-02-24 17:30:31	akk	You can also run dmesg and look at the boot messages, see if it saw the camera and the wifi module when it booted.
2018-02-24 17:31:22	gordonDrogon	Alexander-47u, sadly my experience here (and in places like Jams, etc.) is that most people just dive into code without looking for ways to test things in an incremental, engineering fashion.
2018-02-24 17:32:41	Alexander-47u	yes but good that there are individuals such as yourself to spread the good word :P
2018-02-24 17:33:40	gordonDrogon	and write the gpio command.
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2018-02-24 17:35:27	Alexander-47u	:D
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2018-02-24 17:37:09	Alexander-47u	gordonDrogon, gordon, just trying to understand the aread part
2018-02-24 17:37:12	Alexander-47u	what is 'aread'
2018-02-24 17:37:49	Alexander-47u	nvm found man
2018-02-24 17:37:54	Alexander-47u	thnx
2018-02-24 17:39:14	Alexander-47u	what about 'rht03:100'
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2018-02-24 17:40:27	gordonDrogon	aread - analog read.
2018-02-24 17:40:40	gordonDrogon	wiringPi is a pin based library, so the on-board pins are 0 through 63.
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2018-02-24 17:41:02	gordonDrogon	you extend wiringPi by adding modules into it - the -x command to the gpio command adds a module - in this case the rht03 module.
2018-02-24 17:41:04	Alexander-47u	but what is rht03:100
2018-02-24 17:41:08	Alexander-47u	oh so
2018-02-24 17:41:16	gordonDrogon	the first number after the : is the new pin base number - this can be any number >= 64
2018-02-24 17:41:28	gordonDrogon	so you are telling wiringPi to add in the rht03 module at pin base 100.
2018-02-24 17:41:38	gordonDrogon	then you give the analog read command and say read pin 100.
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2018-02-24 17:42:05	gordonDrogon	the first pin in the rht03 module is the temperature, the 2nd (101 in this case) is the humidity.
2018-02-24 17:42:30	gordonDrogon	although technically that device doesn't have channels like that, wiringPi fakes it to make it easy to use in the pin system that wiringPi uses.
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2018-02-24 17:43:06	Alexander-47u	what a clear explanation. thanks allot gordon :D
2018-02-24 17:43:18	gordonDrogon	oh, the 2nd number after the :100 is the on-board pin that the device uses - the -g flag tells wiringPi to use bcm_gpio pin numbers.
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2018-02-24 17:43:59	gordonDrogon	type: gpio readall to get a printout of the pin numbers.
2018-02-24 17:45:20	Alexander-47u	I see, this is allot more clear than 'pinout'
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2018-02-24 17:49:25	gordonDrogon	http://pinout.xyz is a good site though.
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2018-02-24 17:53:29	argoneus	will the gpio pins explode if I put 5V in them?
2018-02-24 17:53:34	argoneus	or is it just "not good in the long run"
2018-02-24 17:55:31	Alexander-47u	argoneus, I have been using a 5v fan for a year on a 3.3v pin to make it go slower and watch kodi.
2018-02-24 17:55:52	shauno	*in* them is a different issue though
2018-02-24 17:56:01	Alexander-47u	but, the amps should be low I read on forums,
2018-02-24 17:56:11	argoneus	I don't mean powering something with 3.3V
2018-02-24 17:56:13	argoneus	I mean
2018-02-24 17:56:22	argoneus	if I try to make a reading out of a 5V part through the GPIO
2018-02-24 17:56:26	argoneus	is that bad times
2018-02-24 17:56:37	argoneus	I guess I need a level shifter?
2018-02-24 17:56:54	waveform	yup, you'll fry the GPIO pin(s) pretty quickly doing that. Shove it through a voltage divider first
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2018-02-24 17:58:11	argoneus	hmm
2018-02-24 17:58:14	waveform	there's an example of one with the DistanceSensor docs in gpiozero: http://gpiozero.readthedocs.io/en/stable/recipes.html#distance-sensor (the distance sensor is a 5V component)
2018-02-24 17:58:15	argoneus	voltage divider
2018-02-24 17:58:38	argoneus	ah
2018-02-24 17:58:46	argoneus	that circuit with two resistors
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2018-02-24 18:02:53	waveform	a level shifter is the "proper" thing to do, but a voltage divider will do in a pinch for many things
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2018-02-24 18:04:10	argoneus	is it okay to post circuits here when I have them lined up?
2018-02-24 18:04:13	argoneus	and ask "will this fry"
2018-02-24 18:06:02	waveform	I wouldn't trust my own judgement on that - I'm no expert but I'm sure others here are. That said, if you've got a multi-meter: test it yourself (best way to learn) and/or simulate your setup with something like http://www.falstad.com/circuit/
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2018-02-24 18:15:53	Alexander-47u	gordonDrogon, is there any more fancy program like gnuplot?
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2018-02-24 18:17:12	Alexander-47u	like somehting that runs a webserver
2018-02-24 18:17:53	akk	There are lots of plotting packages, and lots of web servers, but maybe I missed the context for that question.
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2018-02-24 18:21:01	Alexander-47u	Im getting output from my pins, using the gpio command, humidity and temperature
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2018-02-24 18:21:16	Alexander-47u	want to get it in a nice graph, preferably hosted on a local webserver
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2018-02-24 18:22:10	akk	I'm a python person, so I'd probably use matplotlib to generate images that the website could show
2018-02-24 18:22:30	akk	but gordonDrogon might know of C libraries, and there are certainly other options.
2018-02-24 18:23:27	Alexander-47u	Im also a python person
2018-02-24 18:23:52	akk	Then matplotlib is your best bet. There are other python plotting libraries but matplotlib is by far the best supported.
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2018-02-24 18:24:15	Alexander-47u	I was thinking more of, outputting to csv like gordonDrogon suggested
2018-02-24 18:24:25	akk	Or if you like javascript for websites, write the data into JSON and use S3 to plot it on the website.
2018-02-24 18:24:44	Alexander-47u	and using it to produce a graph, but im very new to this and maybe its stupid
2018-02-24 18:24:53	akk	CSV is always good for storing data, then you can plot it with matplotlib or gnuplot or S3 or whatever you prefer.
2018-02-24 18:24:54	Alexander-47u	just want to know what the 'right' way to go is
2018-02-24 18:25:01	Alexander-47u	oh so
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2018-02-24 18:26:44	waveform	Alexander-47u, you may want to check out rrdtool
2018-02-24 18:27:10	waveform	it's a little command line tool for constructing round-robin databases (keeping data over a long period of time, including higher level aggregates). Also includes graphing functionality
2018-02-24 18:27:18	waveform	(it's the basis of server monitoring stuff like munin)
2018-02-24 18:28:05	waveform	(there's bindings for plenty of languages too, including python)
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2018-02-24 18:28:29	gordonDrogon	Alexander-47u, sorry - I've only used gnuplot - there might be better, but ...
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2018-02-24 18:33:01	Alexander-47u	rrdtool seems nice
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2018-02-24 18:33:56	Alexander-47u	taking note of all mentioned :)
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2018-02-24 18:38:13	gordonDrogon	there was some ancient stuff I used in the dark ages - netpbm - you used them to create a bitmap via the usual draw/plot/etc. type commands and then saved the bitmap...
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2018-02-24 18:42:52	red9	What is the design current for a Raspberry Pi v1/2 that have no devices connected besides the flashmemory?
2018-02-24 18:42:55	Alexander-47u	ye.. I want fancy looking stuff
2018-02-24 18:43:02	Alexander-47u	xD
2018-02-24 18:43:53	red9	I have one linear regulator that can deliver 1A and which easy to get working. And a switched one that requires more "stuff" but that can deliver 3A.
2018-02-24 18:44:22	red9	The latter maybe runs into some ripple noise issues?
2018-02-24 18:44:50	gordonDrogon	red9, you're asking stuff that few people know about - you may have to go and do the research yourself.
2018-02-24 18:45:15	gordonDrogon	but note that it's not just the current - it's burst current - e.g. when writing to the SD you'll get spikes of higher current usage.
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2018-02-24 18:45:55	gordonDrogon	fwiw: I powered a Pi v1 off a 7805 without a heatsink, fed from 9v of batterys.
2018-02-24 18:45:57	red9	that's why I wrote "design current".
2018-02-24 18:46:01	gordonDrogon	it did get hot, mind.
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2018-02-24 18:46:30	gordonDrogon	if I knew what the "design current" was, I'd tell you, but I've never seen it written/printed anywhere.
2018-02-24 18:46:46	akk	I used to run my Pi 1 off USB before I found out I wasn't supposed to do that.
2018-02-24 18:47:01	akk	But I wasn't driving a display or anything heavy duty like that.
2018-02-24 18:47:27	gordonDrogon	however ... It is stobgly recommended to use a 2.5A PSU with the Pi v3. The USB has a current budget of 1.2A, so that leaves 1.3A for the ARM, GPU and the otherstuff.
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2018-02-24 18:48:00	gordonDrogon	The Pi 1 USB issue is that the original ones had a 100mA polyfuse on the USB sockets - the rev 1.1's had them removed.
2018-02-24 18:48:29	gordonDrogon	it's the same issue powering any Pi via the gpio or USB - it is recommended that you provide protection, but it works without...
2018-02-24 18:49:01	gordonDrogon	The Pi v1 has a 700mA polyfuse on the USB power input.
2018-02-24 18:49:20	gordonDrogon	take 200mA off for the USB and you have 500mA left over for the ARM, etc.
2018-02-24 18:49:33	red9	well many people use USB "charger" to power the Pi, which then can deliver at least 1.5 A @ 5V.
2018-02-24 18:50:00	gordonDrogon	USB chargers are usually OK - it's back-power a Pi via the USB sockets that's something to be careful off.
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2018-02-24 18:50:30	red9	nah, this is for powering through that real mini-USB socket meant for the purpose.
2018-02-24 18:50:50	gordonDrogon	https://projects.drogon.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/b+power.jpg
2018-02-24 18:51:07	red9	Almost looks like a session of shunt-resistor and digital oscilloscope is a thing for the to-do list..
2018-02-24 18:51:18	gordonDrogon	thats a Pi B+ being powered off a USB charger powering 2 other Pi's.
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2018-02-24 18:51:41	r3	would you happen to know, generally, when using a switch-mode voltage regulator whose output is a fixed 5V, and that can accept input voltages from 7.2V to 20V, would it be more efficient with a higher input voltage (say 12V)than a lower one (say 9V)?  I know linear regulators are more efficient with a smaller difference between their input and output voltages...
2018-02-24 18:52:21	red9	b+power.jpg - nasty ;)
2018-02-24 18:52:34	gordonDrogon	no idea. I have some switched-mode 7805 drop-in replacements that I now use for 9v battery stuff.
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2018-02-24 18:53:26	gordonDrogon	https://projects.drogon.net/testing-setting-the-usb-current-limiter-on-the-raspberry-pi-b/ <-- is the rest of that article I wrote.
2018-02-24 18:53:51	r3	gordonDrogon, what source for those replacements, if you don't mind me asking
2018-02-24 18:53:59	gordonDrogon	r3, farnell.
2018-02-24 18:54:07	gordonDrogon	r3 hang on I'll get the part number.
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2018-02-24 18:54:36	red9	price?
2018-02-24 18:54:38	r3	thanks, gordonDrogon
2018-02-24 18:55:15	gordonDrogon	SR10S05 and TSR 1-2450 .. I have 2 different types (not sure why now)
2018-02-24 18:55:30	r3	I'll have a look, thanks
2018-02-24 18:56:05	gordonDrogon	I think the latter was a lot cheaper.
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2018-02-24 18:56:30	r3	gordonDrogon: have you seen these?  https://www.ezsbc.com/index.php/featured-products-list-home-page/psu5-30.html
2018-02-24 18:56:47	gordonDrogon	http://uk.farnell.com/xp-power/sr10s05/converter-dc-dc-5v-5w/dp/1861095 http://uk.farnell.com/tracopower/tsr-1-2450/converter-dc-dc-5v-1a-sip/dp/1696320?ost=TSR+1-2450&scope=partnumberlookahead&exaMfpn=true&searchref=searchlookahead&ddkey=http%3Aen-GB%2FElement14_United_Kingdom%2Fw%2Fsearch
2018-02-24 18:57:13	gordonDrogon	r3, no - but that's not a UK site, so I'd discount it immediately based on that.
2018-02-24 18:57:52	gordonDrogon	I am powering Pi's using the Adafruit Powerboost 1000c units though - via a 3.7v, 2000mAh LiPO
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2018-02-24 18:58:44	r3	aww, gordonDrogon, I actually have talked with the owner of that site some and he's real nice and helpful
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2018-02-24 18:59:11	r3	not his fault he's not in the UK.  Or maybe it is.  ;)  We can't all live there.
2018-02-24 18:59:32	gordonDrogon	it's good there's still a personal touch.
2018-02-24 18:59:43	gordonDrogon	but it's simply not economical for me to buy from a US site.
2018-02-24 18:59:58	red9	could you retype the parts number for those Farnell 7805-dropin replacements?
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2018-02-24 19:00:16	gordonDrogon	and I really hate when UK people sell via e.g. Tindie - everyone loses money that way )-:
2018-02-24 19:00:28	red9	how?
2018-02-24 19:00:40	gordonDrogon	red9, retype? really - don't you have scrollback? I'll just hit the up-arrow a few times..
2018-02-24 19:00:44	gordonDrogon	SR10S05 and TSR 1-2450 .. I have 2 different types (not sure why now)
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2018-02-24 19:01:32	gordonDrogon	red9, my bank charges me £ to $. The UK based seller is charged by paypal and the selling site (e.g. Tindie) takes their cut too.
2018-02-24 19:01:40	r3	I understand totally.
2018-02-24 19:02:09	gordonDrogon	Pi-Top just lost a sale in a similar manner - a UK shop charging directly in US$
2018-02-24 19:02:10	r3	even though I've recently been guilty of buying a bunch of stuff from Tindie that was shipped from the UK.
2018-02-24 19:02:44	r3	he said that he is going to raise his prices as he just isn't getting a favorable money conversion rate
2018-02-24 19:02:50	red9	So:  Tindie -> Tindie-cut -> PayPal -> Bank $$ -> you ?
2018-02-24 19:03:02	gordonDrogon	r3, I know, they make it easy - we need a UK version of Tindie. The particular seller of stuff I was after not only lost out on a £250 sale, but has made me decide to make something similar myself.
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2018-02-24 19:07:06	gordonDrogon	https://projects.drogon.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/pitrak8.jpg <- is the board with the 7805 on it that sits on a Pi v1 and poweres it via the GPIO. It got a bit hot, but not too hot...
2018-02-24 19:07:09	r3	I will read up on those, cheers, gordonDrogon :)
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2018-02-24 19:07:36	gordonDrogon	https://projects.drogon.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/pitrak4.jpg
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2018-02-24 19:09:53	red9	Regarding USB. Seems there are many.. charging standards by now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Version_history
2018-02-24 19:10:40	red9	11 versions.
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2018-02-24 19:11:35	gordonDrogon	not really - but things have adapted.
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2018-02-24 19:12:40	red9	Standards are good. Everyone has one.. of their own ;)
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2018-02-24 19:13:05	gordonDrogon	https://xkcd.com/927/
2018-02-24 19:13:39	red9	yeah! ;-)
2018-02-24 19:13:55	red9	don't forget microsoft......
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2018-02-24 19:19:45	shauno	I've bought a bunch of tindie and never really thought about that
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2018-02-24 19:22:46	red9	shauno, have lot's of money? ;)
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2018-02-24 19:24:25	gordonDrogon	or lives in the US.
2018-02-24 19:24:54	shauno	nah, Ireland
2018-02-24 19:24:58	gordonDrogon	ah yes.
2018-02-24 19:25:26	gordonDrogon	maybe I care more about not giving money to my bank who already robs me blind anyway.
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2018-02-24 19:29:58	shauno	I think I never thought about it because the conversion usually ends up feeling good, even if it ain't
2018-02-24 19:30:31	shauno	I mean the number that comes out of my account is usually smaller than the number on the bill, so it feels like you're winning
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2018-02-24 19:31:29	red9	Maybe there's some Pi shop selling in cryptocurrency?
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2018-02-24 19:31:52	shauno	they have transaction fees too
2018-02-24 19:32:22	red9	It's so weird that banks can lend out money they don't have and then charge rent on money they don't have. For plebs that's called fraud..
2018-02-24 19:32:55	shauno	but it seems most places have stopped accepting BTC anyway
2018-02-24 19:33:07	gordonDrogon	never had any ...
2018-02-24 19:33:49	shauno	me neither.  I more mean that if the ones that did take BTC have given up on it, that's not too inspiring for any other vendors looking at accepting it
2018-02-24 19:33:58	red9	Some of the never reportedly have lower transaction fees and faster verification.
2018-02-24 19:34:51	shauno	I have even less faith in them than 'established' cyrptocurrencies.  and that's near-zero to start with
2018-02-24 19:35:26	red9	never -> newer (ouch)
2018-02-24 19:35:51	shauno	hah, I didn't even notice that.  I read what you meant, I guess
2018-02-24 19:37:24	BurtyB	red9, I think both pimoroni and modmypi in the UK accept bitcoin
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2018-02-24 20:50:25	karey	hello can i get some help here with my raspi ?
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2018-02-24 20:55:15	Jusii	helps if you tell what's your problem
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2018-02-24 20:59:58	karey	so im connecting raspberry pi zero to linux machine via usb<=>usb on raspizero and i have done things mentioned in tutorials to set raspi0 as usb eth adapter and there is connection but it is flickering all the time
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2018-02-24 21:24:58	waveform	karey, what's flickering? The light on the pi zero? If so, that's merely an indication of SD card activity. There's also a variety of techniques for this - could you point us at the tutorial you're following?
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2018-02-24 21:32:00	karey	waveform: the connection on pc and raspi0 are flickering i followed the tutorial which said to add to config.txt dtoverlay=dwc2 and to cmdline.txt modules-load=dwc2,g_ether tutorial was made by novaspirit (https://www.novaspirit.com/2016/10/18/raspberry-pi-zero-usb-dongle/) but i wasn't soldering anything i just connecting with usb to usb
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2018-02-24 21:36:15	waveform	okay, what do you mean by the connection "flickering"? You mean the connection is going up and down?
2018-02-24 21:36:29	karey	waveform: yes
2018-02-24 21:37:01	waveform	presumably you can only see that on the linux PC?
2018-02-24 21:37:53	karey	waveform: no cause i connect spare monitor to raspi0 and on raspi this looks the same
2018-02-24 21:38:23	waveform	do you know what the PC thinks the connection is? If you're using network-manager you generally need to set the pizero's connection to "link local only" otherwise it keeps trying to find a DHCP server on it
2018-02-24 21:39:37	waveform	(i.e. on the linux PC, find the connection that the pizero has added - it's generally "Wired Connection 2" or something like that, and set the connection type to "Link-local only" under IPv4 settings)
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2018-02-24 21:40:29	karey	waveform: but i cant do anything cause its changing its state too fast but maybe i will try to do this via linux console
2018-02-24 21:41:15	waveform	oh ... the connection's disappearing entirely then re-appearing? That's odd - I haven't seen that particular behaviour before
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2018-02-24 21:50:52	Ignacy	karey: can you try with a different cable?
2018-02-24 21:51:31	Ignacy	check cable for visible mechanical damage
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2018-02-24 21:53:30	karey	Ignacy: ,waveform different cable cause stop connection
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2018-02-24 21:59:50	karey	Ignacy: waveform ...f*** me 4th cable works
2018-02-24 22:00:50	Ignacy	karey: to save yourself from future problems, get rid of damaged cables now.
2018-02-24 22:02:00	waveform	indeed - though you may want to check cables that didn't work at all - they might be wired for charging only (I've got a couple like that, carefully labelled now)
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2018-02-24 22:02:36	karey	Ignacy: but those little scumbags works with phone when i need to transfer data but why they dont work with raspi? the cable from wacom graphical tablet works so why ?
2018-02-24 22:03:05	waveform	incidentally, careful with the language (even ****s is frowned upon), but I'm glad you figured it out!
2018-02-24 22:03:24	waveform	is the dodgy cable particualrly long?
2018-02-24 22:04:07	waveform	I've certainly got a couple of cables which are fine for data *only* but struggle to do both data and power a pi at the same time
2018-02-24 22:04:16	karey	the cable which worked are the longest one so my question is how and why ?
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2018-02-24 22:05:44	waveform	well, that is weird ... I've got no explanation other than "dodgy cables" (by which I mean marginal - probably okay for one thing or another but not both). Might be worth trying one of the "iffy" cables while also powering the zero through its power USB port separately (just to see if the issue is that the cable won't do both power and data simultaneously)
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2018-02-24 22:06:21	Ignacy	raspberry can be powered trough a regular usb port too? o.0
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2018-02-24 22:07:21	waveform	Ignacy, yes you can back-power thru the data USB port on a zero (and others) - particularly useful with the zero as it means you only need a single cable to connect to the PC
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2018-02-24 22:08:11	waveform	however it's not as "safe" as the proper power port which has the polyfuses
2018-02-24 22:08:34	waveform	(if I recall correctly? I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong)
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2018-02-24 22:10:01	karey	u are tottally right waveform but only raspi0 and from what i remember raspi 1 has this option (something with processor)
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2018-02-24 22:13:24	waveform	actually I think you can do it on any of the Pis (search for "Back-powering" under https://elinux.org/RPi_Hardware); the very early Pis required modding for it but I'm pretty sure all the modern ones support it
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2018-02-24 22:13:38	waveform	(though by "support" I mean, are capable - it's not generally advised due to the bypassing of the polyfuses)
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2018-02-24 22:23:16	Ignacy	I see, thanks
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2018-02-24 22:59:03	choscura	heeeeeeey! there IS a pi room!
2018-02-24 22:59:27	Ignacy	shh! not that loud.
2018-02-24 22:59:41	choscura	fuck that, I'm making this louder, lol.
2018-02-24 23:00:27	choscura	damn, where to even start. What has everyone here done with their Pi's?
2018-02-24 23:00:36	waveform	choscura, mind the language please (it's a family-friendly channel)
2018-02-24 23:00:43	mfa298	choscura: you should probably read the rules (in the topic)
2018-02-24 23:01:49	choscura	I'll cut back on the swearing, but the occasional bomb may slip out of the bay doors.
2018-02-24 23:02:01	choscura	and, there needs to be a NSFW raspberry pi channel, since this apparently isn't it.
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2018-02-24 23:03:53	choscura	So, I've got a handful of Pi0w's and Pi3B's that I'm working on getting into a few different functioning devices- the biggest goal is a real/practical phablet <large-profile phone tablet, ~7" screen>
2018-02-24 23:04:46	choscura	but I've got a camera turret (basically a pi3b on 2x dynamixel servos that can look in a 180 degree dome with the pi camera and an arduicam lens on it)
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2018-02-24 23:05:23	choscura	and I'm srsly here looking for real advice, with an interest in really contributing, despite F-bombs.
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2018-02-25 00:38:39	choscura	eh? I get chastised for my potty mouth, but then nobody says anything about pi stuff?  Come on, who has a good GSM receiver, hat or otherwise?
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2018-02-25 00:40:20	Ignacy	i'm going to order some basic electronics stuff to learn how to connect diodes and such
2018-02-25 00:40:27	Ignacy	untill then don't expect much from me
2018-02-25 00:40:37	choscura	lol
2018-02-25 00:40:41	Ignacy	i'm just using rpi for an ssh box and to wake up the main pc
2018-02-25 00:40:51	choscura	that's still a good start.
2018-02-25 00:41:24	choscura	they're useful little things, my current pi project is a poison tap/dedicated mobile VPN combo
2018-02-25 00:41:55	clickboom	what about making a button that wakes up your main computer?
2018-02-25 00:42:08	choscura	or whatever computer it is plugged into
2018-02-25 00:42:25	choscura	Who here has heard of "poison tap"s?
2018-02-25 00:42:35	Ignacy	thought about it :D
2018-02-25 00:43:15	Ignacy	is it something like a pie hole?
2018-02-25 00:43:31	choscura	well, mine includes a little 3.7v battery (the actual processor voltage, you can't power USB with it and you may not be able to drive wifi, but it can charge up and keep the processor running for hot-swapping)
2018-02-25 00:43:57	choscura	poison tap is a weaponized pi
2018-02-25 00:44:01	Ignacy	the WOL thingy was really usefull once. I forgot to copy one train ticket to my phone before leaving. managed to wake the pc, move the ticket to dropbox folder and sync it, therefore getting it on the phone
2018-02-25 00:44:06	Ignacy	what? weaponized ? xD
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2018-02-25 00:44:40	choscura	you plug it in to a computer, it presents itself as a generic USB wifi thing, but presents as if it has the alexa 1,000,000 most popular websites on it locally
2018-02-25 00:44:42	choscura	fb and whatever
2018-02-25 00:44:58	choscura	so your pc starts sending it the keys, ostensibly 'to facebook through it'
2018-02-25 00:45:14	choscura	which it promptly stores
2018-02-25 00:45:46	Ignacy	that's kind of evil
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2018-02-25 00:46:16	choscura	that's extremely evil
2018-02-25 00:46:20	choscura	it's a weaponized pi
2018-02-25 00:46:33	Ignacy	what about the mosquito laser?
2018-02-25 00:46:53	choscura	but, that in combo with a VPN, a two-edged sword- useful for you but possibly offensive if it needs to be- is the best way to make that work.
2018-02-25 00:47:36	choscura	the mosquito laser needs higher latency than the pi can put out, that needs to be a hardware thing.  the barrier is the speed going to the USB controller between pi and laser, or between GPIO-pi-laser
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2018-02-25 00:49:51	Ignacy	can't you fix it with arduino?
2018-02-25 00:50:10	Ignacy	isn't that how people get realtime computations solved?
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2018-02-25 01:03:00	choscura	Ignacy, that's a way to do it, but what you really want is a pi that can control the sensors and basically just aim the laser by communicating with a device- like an arduino- where it needs to be pointed, when, and when it needs to be on.  that reduced instruction set that's simply the target in the format for the laser controller would be how I'd do it.
2018-02-25 01:06:12	Ignacy	amazon recently released lot of tools for deep learning and especially image processing. it's even possible to have the 'offline' version on the machine. maybe somebody already posted a ready project that can steer the camera.
2018-02-25 01:06:50	choscura	actually, I've got the google version's tutorial up on my laptop and am prototyping with that, I already mentioned- I've got the camera turret already. :D
2018-02-25 01:06:55	Ignacy	steer the laser* and aim for the mosquitoes
2018-02-25 01:07:03	Ignacy	haha
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2018-02-25 01:07:44	Ignacy	that would be a life saver in countries where people still die to mosquitoes
2018-02-25 01:08:06	choscura	I'm literally working on other more-fundamental lifesavers.
2018-02-25 01:08:13	Ignacy	especially, if a local tinkerer could get a laser like that for under $40
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2018-02-25 01:08:34	choscura	power generation, sewer treatment, water collection and treatment (including desalination), etc.
2018-02-25 01:09:04	Ignacy	mail me at 1337igi at gmail.com, I'm going to bed now but I would love to read it tomorrow.
2018-02-25 01:09:36	Ignacy	good night :)
2018-02-25 01:09:48	choscura	I'll ping you, but basically, if you google "choscura" you'll find some of it. including 'choscura.com'.
2018-02-25 01:09:56	Ignacy	kk
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2018-02-25 01:37:05	Travis	Hello
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2018-02-25 01:37:35	Travis	I just picked up another Pi3, that came with a 7" screen.  I cannot get it to go full screen.
2018-02-25 01:38:05	clickboom	which screen?
2018-02-25 01:38:43	Travis	(as it says on the back):  "7inch HDMI LCD (B)"  I think it's a Waveshare one.
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2018-02-25 01:56:07	clickboom	Travis: what have you tried so far?
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2018-02-25 01:57:51	Travis	There was some code, that supposedly would make it work.  That failed.
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2018-02-25 02:12:55	Travis	I found this:  https://github.com/derekhe/waveshare-7inch-touchscreen-driver
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2018-02-25 02:13:17	Travis	One minor problem with it:  You can't download it the way the directions say to, without signing up for his site.
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2018-02-25 02:14:19	clickboom	you can't? git clone https://github.com/derekhe/waveshare-7inch-touchscreen-driver.git.
2018-02-25 02:15:16	Travis	it asked for a password
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2018-02-25 02:16:55	clickboom	when you did git clone from the command line? that's really weird, i've never had that happen at github.
2018-02-25 02:17:35	Travis	I just tried it a few minutes ago.
2018-02-25 02:17:43	Travis	He locked his stuff down, evidently.
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2018-02-25 02:22:02	clickboom	it worked fine on my pi.
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2018-02-25 02:28:33	Travis	I am trying it now.  It appears that something went wrong, as the screen is not at full potential.
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2018-02-25 02:33:23	Travis	I followed the directions exactly.  That didn't work.
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2018-02-25 02:34:53	clickboom	did you get any error messages?
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2018-02-25 02:36:12	Travis	none
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2018-02-25 02:37:21	Travis	the touch part works
2018-02-25 02:37:27	Travis	It's getting it aligned that has failed.
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2018-02-25 02:37:43	clickboom	so your monitor had a black border around the edges? does the resolution match the proportions of your screen?
2018-02-25 02:38:52	Travis	no; yes.
2018-02-25 02:39:10	Travis	I cannot get the screen to match any resolution Raspbian has in it, nor the driver.
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2018-02-25 02:40:34	clickboom	xdpyinfo  | grep 'dimensions:'? xrandr | grep '*'?
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2018-02-25 02:47:58	Travis	I am going to do that, after I get it reinstalled.
2018-02-25 02:48:11	Travis	I got tired of fighting it, and reinstalled the operating system.
2018-02-25 02:49:17	Travis	I just find it funny, that this doesn't happen with a traditional computer monitor.
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2018-02-25 03:29:19	blap	anyone with a Pi3 here and vc4 opengl driver can compare glxgears FPS?  test by running vblank_mode=0 glxgears
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2018-02-25 03:43:21	Travis	Found my fix
2018-02-25 03:43:31	Travis	https://alselectro.wordpress.com/2016/08/20/7-touch-screen-lcd-for-raspberry-pi-driver-installation-with-virtual-keyboard/
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2018-02-25 05:55:07	tezogmix	for those using the pi3b as a media player, how is vlc? I wanted to put some mp4's on an external hdd via powered usb hub
2018-02-25 05:55:26	Ben64	vlc is bad
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2018-02-25 05:57:31	tezogmix	oh really Ben64 , any other suggestions to check? I forgot to mention that the pi3b is running ubuntu-mate and I was going to hook it up via hdmi out to a 1080p tv
2018-02-25 05:58:34	tezogmix	right now, I've just been using the pi3b for non-media usage over an old 19" vga monitor (have a hdmi-vga adapter)
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2018-02-25 05:59:33	tezogmix	I just got this 1080p tv, still in the box - nothing fancy, it's not a smart tv
2018-02-25 06:00:14	tezogmix	so just planning ahead on some options to consider...
2018-02-25 06:00:22	Ben64	omxplayer
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2018-02-25 06:02:31	tezogmix	does that require a different sdcard/OS Ben64 ? I vaguely recall the name...
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2018-02-25 06:03:37	Ben64	it comes with raspbian, but i'm sure its available for any rpi distro
2018-02-25 06:04:58	tezogmix	ah ok Ben64 thanks, I just googled just now on a few topic links re: omxplayer to see the process...
2018-02-25 06:06:12	tezogmix	Initially did use raspbian but found ubuntu-mate to be not too bad for some better web browsing experience with firefox-esr
2018-02-25 06:07:08	tezogmix	however, not sure how well ubuntu-mate is going to be supported over times ahead for the pi
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2018-02-25 06:13:50	caoliver	Slackware ARM FTW.
2018-02-25 06:13:58	 *	caoliver grins ducks and runs.
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2018-02-25 09:33:54	katnip	https://www.flickr.com/groups/1884120@N23/pool/
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2018-02-25 10:46:08	niko1990	hello everyone =)
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2018-02-25 10:47:48	niko1990	I have a quick question: Making Images from the SD Card in Windows works pretty easy with win32diskimager. What is the best way to create an img file of the sd card in ubuntu?
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2018-02-25 10:50:45	kartikay	Hey guys
2018-02-25 10:50:54	kartikay	I'm trying to connect a raspi to a usb modem
2018-02-25 10:51:02	kartikay	On one modem it's working just fine
2018-02-25 10:51:22	kartikay	on the newer version of the same modem its not connecting
2018-02-25 10:51:25	mk-fg	niko1990, dd if=/dev/sdX of=my.img bs=1M status=progress
2018-02-25 10:51:30	kartikay	How do I troubleshoot it?
2018-02-25 10:51:42	niko1990	mk-fg: Thank you very much =)
2018-02-25 10:51:51	mlelstv	kartikay, connecting using what?
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2018-02-25 10:52:10	kartikay	mlelstv: umm, usb cable
2018-02-25 10:52:20	mlelstv	I meant what software?
2018-02-25 10:52:27	kartikay	Well i think its a USB router* not a modem, sorry for wrong terminology
2018-02-25 10:52:57	kartikay	mlelstv: I've edited /etc/network/interfaces, added allow-hotplug usb0 etc
2018-02-25 10:53:22	ShorTie	got a model # we can work with ??
2018-02-25 10:53:31	kartikay	ShorTie: yup
2018-02-25 10:53:32	mlelstv	can you identify the two modems? make and model ?
2018-02-25 10:53:36	kartikay	i have them both
2018-02-25 10:54:00	kartikay	They are JioFi routers .. i don't know the model numbers at the moment
2018-02-25 10:55:45	kartikay	This is the dmesg output
2018-02-25 10:55:51	kartikay	https://pastebin.com/LMATBhXu
2018-02-25 10:57:38	kartikay	the first time it shows "Mobile Router/Qualcomm" and it doesnt work .. but the second time it shows "android" and connects succesfully ...
2018-02-25 10:59:43	mlelstv	it connects as two rndis devices.
2018-02-25 11:00:00	mlelstv	eth1 is probably the controlling connection.
2018-02-25 11:00:10	mlelstv	how does the non-working router look like?
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2018-02-25 11:00:35	mlelstv	or is that both routers connected at the same time?
2018-02-25 11:01:17	ShorTie	what is with mmcblk0p3 && mmcblk0p6 ??
2018-02-25 11:01:28	ShorTie	is this a noobs install ??
2018-02-25 11:01:29	mlelstv	shortie, SD card partitions
2018-02-25 11:01:36	ShorTie	dah
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2018-02-25 11:03:37	kartikay	mlelstv: I had connected the second one at the same time when the first was connected to check the dmesg output using ssh
2018-02-25 11:03:44	ShorTie	EXT4-fs (mmcblk0p6): re-mounted. Opts: (null), don't look right to me
2018-02-25 11:04:34	kartikay	ShorTie: this was probably the preinstalled NOOBS that came with the raspi 2
2018-02-25 11:04:47	ShorTie	you connecting them straight to the pi or thru a powered hub ??
2018-02-25 11:05:10	kartikay	ShorTie: striaght to the pi
2018-02-25 11:05:10	ShorTie	pi2 or 3 ??
2018-02-25 11:05:23	kartikay	pi 2
2018-02-25 11:05:39	ShorTie	i'd say you got power problems
2018-02-25 11:05:50	mlelstv	https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-networking-3/how-do-i-configure-a-cdc-ethernet-device-a-4g-usb-dongle-835856/
2018-02-25 11:06:07	kartikay	hmmm, dunno. The usb router has a battery of its own, why would it need more power
2018-02-25 11:07:07	ShorTie	to operate correctly
2018-02-25 11:07:18	mlelstv	dmesg says that both are recognized, one as 'eth1' and one as 'usb0'.
2018-02-25 11:08:00	mlelstv	and usb0 is allowed to hotplug. Is eth1 too ?
2018-02-25 11:08:00	kartikay	mlelstv: should i try something like iface eth1 dhcp or something?
2018-02-25 11:08:20	kartikay	here's the whole /etc/network/interfaces
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2018-02-25 11:08:54	kartikay	https://pastebin.com/UpUtAuv4
2018-02-25 11:09:59	mlelstv	adding eth1 like you added usb0 might help
2018-02-25 11:10:06	kartikay	hmm lemme try
2018-02-25 11:10:46	 *	ShorTie would wipe that sdcard and put a fresh raspbiam image on it, sumfin flaky is happening with the install
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2018-02-25 11:12:09	kartikay	RIght now i'm connected to the raspi thru ssh and i've connected both routers to it
2018-02-25 11:12:18	kartikay	ifconfig is showing both usb0 and eth1
2018-02-25 11:12:31	kartikay	however eth1 doesnt show any ip address
2018-02-25 11:12:46	kartikay	can i run dhcp on eth1 through the command line?
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2018-02-25 11:14:01	mlelstv	ifup should do that automatically
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2018-02-25 11:16:56	kartikay	mlelstv: > "adding eth1 like you added usb0 might help" .. that worked, thank you!
2018-02-25 11:17:07	mlelstv	cool
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2018-02-25 13:27:08	DrunkenDwarf	Hi all. I've been experimenting for ages with Pi based pet cam. I've tried manually with motion. I've tried MotionEyeOS (which is unstable as anything). Commercial pet cams stream to a central server which you can log into which seems more stable than opening up your pi to connect directly to with all the port forwarding and issues with dynamic IP addresses. Anyone know of a service you can set something
2018-02-25 13:27:08	DrunkenDwarf	up on the pi to stream directly to a web server and then view from there?
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2018-02-25 14:08:57	ShorTie	anyone here try the x850 mSATA SSD expansion board ??
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2018-02-25 14:09:07	ShorTie	https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Raspberry-Pi-3-Model-B-mSATA-SSD-Storage-Expansion-Board-X850-USB-3-0-Expansion-Board/1048722_32817586840.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.1618659fkebiIu
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2018-02-25 14:11:39	mlelstv	doesn't look related to rpi
2018-02-25 14:12:53	ShorTie	??
2018-02-25 14:13:09	ShorTie	why not ??
2018-02-25 14:14:14	wp	is the opencv gesture recognition good?
2018-02-25 14:14:32	mlelstv	it's a generic usb3-mSATA adapter.
2018-02-25 14:15:42	ShorTie	but made to bolt on top of the pi
2018-02-25 14:16:18	mlelstv	well, probably still a generic thing, but with the proper bolts added to fit.
2018-02-25 14:17:52	mlelstv	add the msata module and compare to a regular USB SSD
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2018-02-25 14:21:40	squirrel	can you boot off that?
2018-02-25 14:21:55	mlelstv	same as with any other USB SSD
2018-02-25 14:22:10	squirrel	which is
2018-02-25 14:22:32	mlelstv	RPI3: yes, RPI0-1-2: requires bootloader on SD card.
2018-02-25 14:22:42	ShorTie	if you set the usb boot bit
2018-02-25 14:22:48	mlelstv	yep
2018-02-25 14:22:50	squirrel	oo nice
2018-02-25 14:23:46	ShorTie	if you set that bit, can you still use just a sdcard if you want ??
2018-02-25 14:23:59	mlelstv	sort of
2018-02-25 14:24:17	mlelstv	the bootloader falls back to SD. But if it can boot from USB it will do that first.
2018-02-25 14:24:40	mlelstv	also means it takes a little bit longer to boot without USB
2018-02-25 14:25:35	ShorTie	ÒkÍè ÐøKîÉ
2018-02-25 14:25:37	ShorTie	Thankz .. :)~
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2018-02-25 14:32:37	Encrypt	ello
2018-02-25 14:32:51	Encrypt	Has anyone installed nextcloud on their Raspberry Pi here?
2018-02-25 14:34:05	clickboom	Encrypt: i have.
2018-02-25 14:34:15	Encrypt	clickboom, How well does it perform?
2018-02-25 14:35:17	clickboom	i used  it mostly for testing, i feel like the bottleneck is disk throughput. it's fine for small files. fun project.
2018-02-25 14:35:26	mlelstv	hmm.
2018-02-25 14:35:55	mlelstv	the documentation says that SD card is checked first.
2018-02-25 14:36:03	mlelstv	so it's a "fallback to USB"
2018-02-25 14:36:16	mlelstv	https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bootmodes/bootflow.md
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2018-02-25 14:40:19	ShorTie	hmmmm, effectively makes 5 GPIOs unusable for other purposes.
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2018-02-25 14:41:49	gordonDrogon	that's why you buy another Pi.
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2018-02-25 14:42:32	gordonDrogon	or just use an adapter (assuming this is what you're on about) that hangs off the USB port with a cable. one more box, but you pay your money and take your choice ...
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2018-02-25 14:54:49	ShorTie	i liked that thing because in the end, it is still smaller then the pi
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2018-02-25 14:55:14	ShorTie	even a 2.5" hd is bigger
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2018-02-25 15:11:13	clickboom	is pi 3b too slow for dogecoind? i boosted the swap to 2gb for memory, thinking disk throughput might be the issue.
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2018-02-25 15:18:44	gordonDrogon	coin mining on a Pi... LoL ... :)
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2018-02-25 15:19:15	clickboom	not mining, just running a bot.
2018-02-25 15:19:57	clickboom	just a wallet.
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2018-02-25 15:24:41	clickboom	they have it in the repo, but i can't see running it without modifications at least to swap for memory.
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2018-02-25 15:42:36	gordonDrogon	why does it need so much memory?
2018-02-25 15:43:12	gordonDrogon	adding swap is one thing, but then it'll just be as slow as a slow slug slithering through treacle on a frosty morning...
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2018-02-25 15:48:50	clickboom	im not sure, but it uses about this much memory on desktop as well. 876mb+244mb swap.
2018-02-25 15:49:24	gordonDrogon	people just don't know how to code efficiently anymore.
2018-02-25 15:50:13	gordonDrogon	<--- grumpy old man.
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2018-02-25 15:51:13	clickboom	i can barely do bash, so i'm not throwing stones over programming skills. i just don't understand why they put it in the repo if it's so problematic.
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2018-02-25 15:53:05	gordonDrogon	it's not that they put it in the repo... it's just that it's part of standard debian, so it more or less gets into raspbian by default.
2018-02-25 15:53:27	gordonDrogon	so there might be things there that are there - but not really appropriate for the Pi.
2018-02-25 15:53:37	gordonDrogon	like firefox )-:
2018-02-25 15:54:36	clickboom	oh, i thought the raspbian repo was more distinct. i'm about to give up, but i try to resist that urge.
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2018-02-25 15:56:18	gordonDrogon	there are a few more Pi specific things that have been changed from Debian, but it would be a rather large task to go through all the packages.
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2018-02-25 16:33:06	wp	can a radar go through materials?
2018-02-25 16:33:26	clickboom	most materials
2018-02-25 16:33:27	gordonDrogon	and odd question in the Pi channel, however...
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2018-02-25 16:33:55	gordonDrogon	it depends on the frequency and power - as well as the material.
2018-02-25 16:34:11	gordonDrogon	most materials will reflect - which is how radar works.
2018-02-25 16:34:40	gordonDrogon	but yes, it can go through stuff.
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2018-02-25 16:40:37	clickboom	i read *radio waves
2018-02-25 16:41:57	wp	i assume the benefit of a radar like https://www.acconeer.com/ as opposed to a camera is the cost?
2018-02-25 16:42:19		[Habbie back: gone 41:53:06]
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2018-02-25 16:57:36	shauno	I think it's more depth perception.  I suspect cameras are cheaper
2018-02-25 16:59:25	jynkbot	anyone tried those knockoff rapsberry beforre?\
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2018-02-25 17:35:18	stiv	what you see with radar depends on the wavelength
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2018-02-25 17:36:05	gordonDrogon	the device wp was on about is a 60GHz chip. Interesting stuff.
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2018-02-25 17:36:34	gordonDrogon	I worked with a company doing 60GHz comms stuff a while back.
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2018-02-25 17:39:48	stiv	i bet that was fun with lots of interesting problems
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2018-02-25 17:44:17	gordonDrogon	distance being the biggest issue - 60GHz is absorbed by oxygen, so the limit without going to silly power levels is about 1Km.
2018-02-25 17:44:34	gordonDrogon	still - 1GB/sec full duplex over 1Km is OK for a lot of applications.
2018-02-25 17:45:43	gordonDrogon	and it all goes weird at those frequencies too - it stops being wires and starts being plumbing.
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2018-02-25 17:47:41	gordonDrogon	Ugh. I'm trying to use a java program - and here was me naively thinking you just "ran" a java program. Turns out it has to be compiled and "stuff" done with it and there's a package called maven that does this, but that requires a bazillion more packages to work and I'm losing the will.
2018-02-25 17:48:08	gordonDrogon	once upon a time this was somewhat easy...
2018-02-25 17:48:23	stiv	java does that to you
2018-02-25 17:48:49	 *	stiv is not a fan
2018-02-25 17:50:08	gordonDrogon	the creator of this package does provide a ready made version, but it's quite older than his github sources.
2018-02-25 17:50:15	gordonDrogon	I might just ask him to build a current one..
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2018-02-25 17:58:34	noregret	is docker in the repos on stretch?
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2018-02-25 18:07:02	larsks	noregret: there is a docker package in stretch, but it's old (1.8.3).  I suspect there are more recent ones available on docker.com.
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2018-02-25 18:07:50	larsks	noregret: https://docs.docker.com/install/linux/docker-ce/debian/
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2018-02-25 18:20:44	 *	RoyK sniffed around with 433MHz things and managed to control his switches with python
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2018-02-25 18:39:31	niko1990	Hello
2018-02-25 18:40:26	RoyK	hi
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2018-02-25 18:48:56	willc	hi
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2018-02-25 19:38:44	Mathuin	I'm interested in using an RPi in a ham radio application, but I've seen reports of issues with RFI.  I suspect this could be addressed with a shielded case and toroids on cables.  Where's a good place to find out more about shielded cases?
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2018-02-25 19:39:23	zleap	Mathuin: the people on ##hamradio may be able to help with specific ham radio issues
2018-02-25 19:39:49	Mathuin	They were some of the folks who mentioned the RFI issues. :-)
2018-02-25 19:39:56	zleap	ah
2018-02-25 19:40:08	Mathuin	I'd also like to run off 13.8VDC as that's what I have in the shack -- making a DC-DC converter is easy enough that there's probably something already out there that does the job.
2018-02-25 19:40:21	zleap	you can get some power supplies with filters on
2018-02-25 19:40:23	zleap	i think
2018-02-25 19:40:47	zleap	round tube shaped things attached to the wire (can't remember the name off hand)
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2018-02-25 19:41:18	Mathuin	Those are toroids.  They're little magnet things that slide over the cables, sometimes the cables come out, around, and back through.
2018-02-25 19:41:27	zleap	yeah
2018-02-25 19:41:37	zleap	would they help in this situation
2018-02-25 19:42:15	Mathuin	Yes, I would put them on the power supply and the USB cables, as this device will use USB for the rig control and audio interfaces.
2018-02-25 19:42:54	zleap	worth a try
2018-02-25 19:43:06	Mathuin	That plus a good case I think will help a great deal.
2018-02-25 19:43:29	zleap	yeah
2018-02-25 19:43:32	Mathuin	At least five years ago folks seemed to roll their own Faraday cages with mesh if they didn't go the Altoids route.
2018-02-25 19:45:18	zleap	hmm
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2018-02-25 19:46:16	zleap	i have one of those tube things on my vga cable
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2018-02-25 19:46:51	Mathuin	Has it helped?
2018-02-25 19:47:22	zleap	not sure
2018-02-25 19:47:31	zleap	i don;t do ham radio,  this thing is just on there,
2018-02-25 19:47:48	zleap	i guess it is to avoid issues with cables being too close to mains,
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2018-02-25 19:48:12	Mathuin	Ah okay.  I didn't know if you put it on to solve a problem, or if it came on there, or what.
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2018-02-25 19:48:23	zleap	it is built in to the cable
2018-02-25 19:49:17	Mathuin	Monitors used to be a real bad source of RFI, because of how the signaling worked.  I have no idea if that has changed, I haven't had problems in years with them.
2018-02-25 19:49:45	zleap	http://amzn.eu/0CPO2KF
2018-02-25 19:49:51	zleap	there is on on the picture,
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2018-02-25 19:50:52	Mathuin	Yeah, that's the kind of thing.  https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-001235  These are for aftermarket fixes.
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2018-02-25 19:54:08	willc	is it me, or does pandas take a while to install on a pi?
2018-02-25 19:54:19	Mathuin	Speaking of aftermarket, a bunch of folks are selling heatsinks and fans for their cases.  Are they necessary?
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2018-02-25 19:54:55	ShorTie	most likely not
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2018-02-25 20:03:41	Mathuin	I just read a detailed description of the differences between a 2 Model B and a 3, and I think the latter is for me.
2018-02-25 20:04:28	Mathuin	What version of Linux do folks usually run?  I'm most familiar with Ubuntu but I've used Arch a bit too.
2018-02-25 20:04:28	ShorTie	be hardish to find a 2
2018-02-25 20:04:44	ShorTie	raspbian
2018-02-25 20:05:13	Mathuin	"Debian-based" so that should be familiar, I hope. :-)
2018-02-25 20:06:05	Mathuin	Ugh, looks like Atom doesn't compile very easily. :-(
2018-02-25 20:06:06	Lartza	Arch Linux ARM is available too but Raspbian is of course the most common
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2018-02-25 20:06:33	Lartza	Atom does not like arm iirc
2018-02-25 20:06:50	Lartza	Also they don't like you compiling Atom and don't distribute arm binaries iirc
2018-02-25 20:07:03	Mathuin	I tried on a Chromebook, that was a waste of a week.
2018-02-25 20:07:23	shauno	if nothing else, you'd be hard-pressed to find a heavier editor to run
2018-02-25 20:07:31	Mathuin	I used Emacs for a couple of decades.
2018-02-25 20:07:39	Lartza	Visual Studio Code is a decent alternative to Atom imo
2018-02-25 20:07:53	Lartza	Though not sure that runs on ARM either :P
2018-02-25 20:08:38	Mathuin	I'm sure there's bad things I can do like network mount the Pi's file system and use Atom on my desktop to modify the files with an xterm to compile/run/etc on the Pi itself.
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2018-02-25 20:12:51	Mathuin	Are there Bluetooth widgets that would plug into a sound card's ports and provide two-way audio?  That might be the best way to connect to the radio.
2018-02-25 20:13:40	Mathuin	I only need like three feet of range. :-)
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2018-02-25 20:21:51	Lartza	Mathuin, If the receiving device is already a bluetooth speaker, maybe
2018-02-25 20:21:59	Lartza	Wait, two-way?
2018-02-25 20:22:04	Mathuin	Yeah, transmit and receive.
2018-02-25 20:22:23	Mathuin	I think that's too complex for this iteration.
2018-02-25 20:22:32	Lartza	Eh
2018-02-25 20:22:42	Lartza	That would mean you need to get the receiver too so, no
2018-02-25 20:22:53	Mathuin	I have a USB sound card which I can use for now.
2018-02-25 20:23:11	Lartza	I've looked for a way to connect home theater speakers wirelessly and cheaply for years but there isn't really anything available even for smaller speakers
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2018-02-25 20:42:00	Mathuin	Okay, pulled the trigger on an order, looking forward to the Raspberry Pi's arrival later this week.
2018-02-25 20:43:13	Lartza	I'm really shortly running out of things to do with my Pi :S
2018-02-25 20:45:05	Mathuin	If I can make this work, I plan on adding another USB sound card (or Bluetooth if I figure that out) to control another radio.  That'll be enough for me for now. :-)
2018-02-25 20:45:12	Mathuin	Seriously, though, thanks for the feedback.
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2018-02-25 21:51:55	en1gma	i have a pi3 on latest raspbian headless. is there a guide that tells you how to make a command start after a certain amount of time after plugged in? also another command to issue a shutdown after a certain amount of time?
2018-02-25 21:53:47	-->	nsk_nyc (~nsk_nyc@179.63.254.74) has joined #raspberrypi
2018-02-25 21:53:57	clickboom	would crontab work?
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2018-02-25 21:56:21	larsks	clickboom: not well.  crontab doesn't really have a "minutes after boot" calendar (cron is largely equivalent to the "OnCalendar" directive in systemd.timer)
2018-02-25 21:56:39	larsks	I think systemd units are easy to write and a lot more flexible.
2018-02-25 21:57:10	larsks	I mean, you could write a simple script that did a sleep x; somecommand; sleep y; poweroff
2018-02-25 21:57:20	larsks	(and then start that via rc.local or @reboot in a crontab)
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2018-02-25 22:00:47	--	Guest59762 is now known as aem
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2018-02-25 22:16:05	shauno	I'd just run a job at startup that submits 'at' jobs
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2018-02-25 22:18:08	shauno	echo shutdown -h now | at now + 1 hour
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2018-02-26 00:50:37	r3	shutdown -h +60
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2018-02-26 01:59:35	choscura	derp!
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2018-02-26 04:22:35	Ether_Man	Hi. Don't suppose anyone happen to know if anyone knows if Texmaster2009 works on the pi zero? I know it works on pi1B, Pi2B and Pi3B, but well, zero is a forth of the price after all :)
2018-02-26 04:22:59	Ether_Man	Err... Sorry, extra "anyone knows if" :)
2018-02-26 04:25:31	larsks	Ether_Man: I have node idea...but if it works on the pi1B, seems like it might be worth a shot on the zero.
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2018-02-26 04:29:43	Ether_Man	larsks, is the zero similar to the pi1b? Because on the 1b it doesn't work with gpio mode which I also would prefer though not sure atm if that's more important than cost :)
2018-02-26 04:31:55	larsks	Ether_Man: I don't know anything about Texmaster2009, but the Zero has the same processor as the 1 and is faster.
2018-02-26 04:33:32	Ether_Man	Hm. Then it's probably not going to work for gpio there either though same cpu should make it at least work. Thanks, I'll have to think about which is most important :)
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2018-02-26 09:14:20	_Jordan	Hey there. I'm struggling with a VNC issue? Basically I wanna vnc onto a headless pi. And when i connect my pi 3 upto etho. It still doesnt appear on my VNC viewer. VNC is enabled in raspi-config
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2018-02-26 09:40:31	CoJaBo	_Jordan: put in the IP manually?
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2018-02-26 09:46:29		[Habbie back: gone 14:31:29]
2018-02-26 09:46:51	gordonDrogon	Ether_Man, why should a tetris clone wory about gpio?
2018-02-26 09:48:29	gordonDrogon	Ether_Man, the Zero has the same GPIO as the 1+ the Pi v1 has the same SoC & processor as the 1+ and Zero however 3 GPIO pins are changed.
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2018-02-26 09:58:46	Habbie	gordonDrogon, https://tetrisconcept.net/threads/sanwadenshi-silent-joystick.2876/
2018-02-26 09:58:56	Habbie	gordonDrogon, even before pushing play on that video i think the story becomes clear
2018-02-26 09:58:59	Habbie	gordonDrogon, re tetris/gpio
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2018-02-26 10:05:19	Vooloo	is there a way to turn on / shut off a 3v fan? the 5v slots are being used by usb extension boards. I don't want the fan running 24/7
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2018-02-26 10:08:16	Habbie	Vooloo, how is the fan connected?
2018-02-26 10:08:38	Vooloo	pin 17 and pin 20
2018-02-26 10:08:48	Habbie	right
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2018-02-26 10:08:55	Habbie	if you want to control it, you'll need a gpio pin
2018-02-26 10:09:06	Habbie	but i bet it draws too much power to be connected directly to a gpio pin
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2018-02-26 10:09:24	Habbie	do you know how much it draws?
2018-02-26 10:09:26	Vooloo	Another gpio pin?
2018-02-26 10:09:32	Vooloo	No idea, it is a very small fan
2018-02-26 10:09:34	Habbie	well 17 and 20 are not really gpio
2018-02-26 10:09:39	Habbie	they just happen to sit between the gpio pins
2018-02-26 10:09:59	Habbie	https://pinout.xyz/
2018-02-26 10:10:05	Habbie	(almost) all pins with a BCM label are controllable
2018-02-26 10:10:08	Habbie	but they offer very little power
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2018-02-26 10:10:17	Habbie	so you may need a relay or a transistor
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2018-02-26 10:11:49	Vooloo	oh geez
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2018-02-26 11:03:48	_Jordan	Anyone help me with my VNC issue?
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2018-02-26 11:09:32	MacGeek	what's the issue?
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2018-02-26 11:11:58	AfonsoHenriques	I wish I could ssh my RPis without LAN :(
2018-02-26 11:12:12	Habbie	AfonsoHenriques, wifi? bt? direct cable?
2018-02-26 11:12:16	Habbie	AfonsoHenriques, serial console?
2018-02-26 11:12:31	AfonsoHenriques	wifi
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2018-02-26 11:15:16	MoziM	does the pi zero use significantly more mwhs on startup than it does idling?
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2018-02-26 11:15:43	ShorTie	well of course
2018-02-26 11:15:44	Habbie	MoziM, likely
2018-02-26 11:15:46	MacGeek	I'd say any machine does that
2018-02-26 11:15:58	blap	anybody else getting constant dmesg errors with kms overlay:
2018-02-26 11:16:05	blap	[drm:validate_tile_binning_config [vc4]] *ERROR* Failed to allocate binner memory: -12
2018-02-26 11:17:17	MoziM	ShorTie: o.o didn't know that.
2018-02-26 11:17:34	Habbie	MoziM, starting up is 'doing something'; idling is doing 'almost nothing'
2018-02-26 11:17:39	Habbie	MoziM, but, why the question?
2018-02-26 11:19:15	MoziM	would it be more or less power efficient to turn on a pi zero take a snapshot then shot off; than it is to take snapshots while the pi zero is on?
2018-02-26 11:19:24	Habbie	depends on how often
2018-02-26 11:19:27	Habbie	and how long the snapshots take
2018-02-26 11:20:14	MoziM	100 an hour
2018-02-26 11:20:39	Habbie	what are these snapshots of?
2018-02-26 11:21:15	ShorTie	you gonna turn it on/off 100 times an hour ??
2018-02-26 11:21:25	MoziM	animals that wander into my yard and trip my motion camera
2018-02-26 11:21:38	Habbie	you boot your pi on the motion trigger?
2018-02-26 11:21:43	Habbie	won't you be too late then anyway?
2018-02-26 11:21:53	ShorTie	by the time it's fired up, they'd be gone
2018-02-26 11:22:23	MoziM	well my pi zero's boot time -> run systemd script is 1.5 - 2 seconds
2018-02-26 11:23:05	Habbie	you sure?
2018-02-26 11:23:09	MoziM	yep
2018-02-26 11:23:16	Habbie	that does not sound like stock raspbian
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2018-02-26 11:23:33	MoziM	no i'm not using raspbian
2018-02-26 11:23:37	Habbie	ok
2018-02-26 11:23:45	Habbie	that makes a difference in the math of it all :)
2018-02-26 11:23:48	MoziM	but the os doesn't matter afaik
2018-02-26 11:23:49	Habbie	but the answer will always be 'measure it'
2018-02-26 11:23:51	AfonsoHenriques	btw, if I want to use my RPis like you guys do -- using to make stuff (...) -- where/how should I start?
2018-02-26 11:23:54	Habbie	well my raspbians don't boot in two seconds
2018-02-26 11:24:00	Habbie	AfonsoHenriques, depends on what you want to make
2018-02-26 11:24:02	MoziM	what's your sd card like?
2018-02-26 11:24:05	Habbie	AfonsoHenriques, i always found that having a goal is best
2018-02-26 11:24:25	MoziM	and afaik the OS doesn't change battery life
2018-02-26 11:24:32	Habbie	sure it does
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2018-02-26 11:26:01	AfonsoHenriques	Habbie, oh yeah! It is funny how the simple can be strongly wise at the same time. I just realized I got plenty stuff to do (right now lol)
2018-02-26 11:26:53	MoziM	Habbie: you can disable desktop env and configure systemd startup services on raspbian too though
2018-02-26 11:27:46	Habbie	MoziM, sure
2018-02-26 11:28:09	Ether_Man	gordonDrogon, a tetris clone worries about the gpio, because you can use them to wire up a arcade board with them directly in it, rather than using a usb controller for that which introduces a bit of latency. Using gpio has next frame response time
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2018-02-26 11:28:42	AfonsoHenriques	I think it will be better if we talk about my goals relatively to this magical cpu later, nice day everyone
2018-02-26 11:32:45	Ether_Man	gordonDrogon, it's not like it's a clone of just any random tetris. It's a clone of the grandmaster, which does kind of make response times like really important :)
2018-02-26 11:33:09	gordonDrogon	Ether_Man, well it looks like the circuit diagrams are there, so trivial to wire up. I'm not sure what the issue is.
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2018-02-26 11:34:35	Ether_Man	The issue there is that the raspi1 uses an arm6 version, which does not support gpio, while the 2 and 3 uses an arm7 version that does.
2018-02-26 11:34:40	Habbie	huh?
2018-02-26 11:34:43	Habbie	the pi1 supports gpio just fine
2018-02-26 11:35:02	Ether_Man	Yes, but Texmaster does not on the pi1
2018-02-26 11:35:07	Habbie	any idea why not?
2018-02-26 11:35:23	Ether_Man	As I just said, because it uses an arm6 version that does not have it.
2018-02-26 11:35:33	Habbie	i'm trying to understand you but i'm failing
2018-02-26 11:35:45	Habbie	is it open source?
2018-02-26 11:36:09	Ether_Man	Some parts are, some are not.
2018-02-26 11:36:14	Habbie	is this one?
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2018-02-26 11:37:11	Ether_Man	Which is "this one"?
2018-02-26 11:37:16	Habbie	the pi port
2018-02-26 11:37:17	gordonDrogon	it sounds like the people selling/producing this tetris clone have compilied it specifically for the arm7 architecture. Incredibly stupid IMO, but there you are. Something as trivial to run as tetris doesn't need to be locked to a particular CPU - it runs on a 200Khz home made computer just as well.
2018-02-26 11:37:28	Habbie	does sound that way, yes
2018-02-26 11:37:33	Ether_Man	Again, some parts are, some are not.
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2018-02-26 11:38:36	gordonDrogon	the first commercial Tetris ran on a 1MHz 6502.
2018-02-26 11:38:58	gordonDrogon	(in 1982)
2018-02-26 11:39:26	gordonDrogon	(oops, 84 - I just checked)
2018-02-26 11:40:00	Ether_Man	grand master is normally a system 16 based arcade cabinet running at 28 something Mhz :)
2018-02-26 11:41:42	gordonDrogon	it's all trademarked and copyrighted too - so hard to make (impossible to sell) a legal tetris now without paying lots of £.
2018-02-26 11:42:34	Ether_Man	Indeed. Hence, Texmaster :)
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2018-02-26 11:44:13	Ether_Man	But while I have a supergun, I don't have anywhere near the 1500 usd that a TGM jamma board costs, so clone is what I'll have to live with :)
2018-02-26 11:45:16	gordonDrogon	that website you linked earlier says it runs under retropi.
2018-02-26 11:46:01	<--	s8548a (~s8548a@unaffiliated/s8548a) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2018-02-26 11:47:00	Ether_Man	You add it as a port in retropi if you wish. But it's not being emulated
2018-02-26 11:47:17	gordonDrogon	Well - I've just downloaded it and it has both arm6 and arm7 versions.
2018-02-26 11:48:53	gordonDrogon	they're statically linked programs. no sources.
2018-02-26 11:49:55	gordonDrogon	they have statically linked wiringPi into them without giving the sources of wiringPi. This contravenes the GPL..
2018-02-26 11:50:30	Ether_Man	They have sources as well somewhere on the forum. Don't remember where exactly :/
2018-02-26 11:50:31	gordonDrogon	so you won't get any help from me on them. These people are scum of the earth in my books.
2018-02-26 11:51:20	gordonDrogon	it's yet another source on emails I get about things not working with updated kernels.
2018-02-26 11:52:52	Ether_Man	Well, if you have a better suggestion for a tgm clone that works on pi, I would love to hear it :)
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2018-02-26 11:53:55	Habbie	if the sources are out there, you could fix it all
2018-02-26 11:54:50	gordonDrogon	it even looks like he's just cut & pasted a few functions out of wiringPi too - not included the whole wiringPi. This is even worse. He's using other peoples code without even acknowledging it. What a thieving scumbag.
2018-02-26 11:56:06	Ether_Man	gordonDrogon, but libwiringPi.so is required to be installed yourself. But you're saying it's statically linked as well?
2018-02-26 11:57:00	gordonDrogon	Yes, it's statically linked. the executables I downloaded is a statically linked executable.
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2018-02-26 11:57:23	gordonDrogon	it explicitly refers to the statically linked version of wiringPi.
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2018-02-26 11:59:46	Ether_Man	Seems weird that it would depend on the very lib it statically link as well. But I'll take your word for it
2018-02-26 12:00:13	gordonDrogon	statically linking wiringPi is just stupid too. if he'd compiled it with dynamic linking then it would work on all Pi's.
2018-02-26 12:00:58	gordonDrogon	right now I've had over 10,000 emails from people who are using packages with an old version of wiringPi statically linked in. This breaks with new kernels - something I fixed 14 months ago.
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2018-02-26 12:04:03	andy1978	Good morning. I have some problems with RTC on a ComputeModule. When reading /proc/driver/rtc I always get a valid answer but hwclock sometimes answers "synchronization failed": https://bpaste.net/show/c6a788e1502f
2018-02-26 12:04:40	andy1978	any ideas what happens here?
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2018-02-26 12:10:51	Habbie	andy1978, i have no idea but i do notice that hwclock is using /dev/rtc, not the /proc stuff, that might be a clue
2018-02-26 12:10:58	Habbie	andy1978, not that hwclock can use the /proc stuff
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2018-02-26 12:21:05	andy1978	Habbie: I'm diggin through the hwclock sourcode and it is trying to detect a change... I guess this bit not available via the /proc interface
2018-02-26 12:21:12	Habbie	likely
2018-02-26 12:21:16	Habbie	makes sense that it wants that, yes
2018-02-26 12:21:26	andy1978	I'm currently building hwclock on the rpi so be able to add further debugging messages
2018-02-26 12:21:38	Habbie	very good
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2018-02-26 12:30:39	andy1978	hm, it's a Heisenbug.... I've added some debugging message and now there is no timeout :-P (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisenbug)
2018-02-26 12:31:12	Habbie	lol
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2018-02-26 12:51:52		[Habbie away: brb]
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2018-02-26 13:06:17	wondiws	this /dev/ttyAMA0 is the serial port on the RPi header, right?
2018-02-26 13:08:17	BCMM	wondiws: i think it depends on the pi
2018-02-26 13:08:23	larsks	wondiws: often, yes.
2018-02-26 13:08:27	larsks	But see https://elinux.org/RPi_Serial_Connection
2018-02-26 13:08:36	larsks	" FOR RASPBERRY PI 3: The Raspberry pi 3 has changed things around a bit: ttyAMA0 now refers to the serial port that is connected to the bluetooth. The old serial port is now called ttyS0."
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2018-02-26 13:08:54	wondiws	Oh, that explains a lot
2018-02-26 13:08:55	BCMM	pi3 has the bluetooth chip on the original serial port, and there's a replacement serial port elsewhere
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2018-02-26 13:09:05	Alexander-47u	hi all
2018-02-26 13:09:39	Alexander-47u	are there other good ways to measure tap water amount besides a flow sensor?
2018-02-26 13:10:03	BCMM	as in, the amount of water that has flowed through a pipe over a given amount of time?
2018-02-26 13:10:11	BurtyB	wondiws, or see the official docs (https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/configuration/uart.md) and use /dev/serial0
2018-02-26 13:10:12	Alexander-47u	yes
2018-02-26 13:10:32	BCMM	Alexander-47u: i may be looking at this the wrong way, but isn't any sensor that gives you that information a flow sensor by definition?
2018-02-26 13:10:42	Alexander-47u	I want to measure amounts of water that is taken from a water dispenser
2018-02-26 13:11:08	BCMM	Alexander-47u: does it come from a tank/bottle or from mains?
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2018-02-26 13:11:15	Alexander-47u	that is what I am asking
2018-02-26 13:11:16	BCMM	i mean can you just measure the weight of the tank?
2018-02-26 13:11:19	Alexander-47u	wait il show you the machine one moment
2018-02-26 13:11:31	larsks	Alexander-47u: also, why isn't a flow sensor appropriate?
2018-02-26 13:11:54	Alexander-47u	not saying it isnt, just researching if there are alternatives as im very new to all of this kind of stuff.
2018-02-26 13:12:28		[Habbie back: gone 00:20:36]
2018-02-26 13:12:42	gordonDrogon	flow sensors are good - but be aware that the cheaper ones aren't that accurate especially at low flow rates.
2018-02-26 13:14:07	Alexander-47u	https://viteau.nl/waterkoeler/viteau-fresco/
2018-02-26 13:14:10	Alexander-47u	a machine like this
2018-02-26 13:16:50	Alexander-47u	but il stick to waterflow sensors for now :P
2018-02-26 13:18:47	MacGeek	if I set a shopt option in a shell script that option only remains set during script execution, right?
2018-02-26 13:18:55	MacGeek	or does it remain set?
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2018-02-26 13:21:36	MacGeek	looks like it only remains set during script execution
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2018-02-26 13:25:10	gordonDrogon	Alexander-47u, you're making a cooler?
2018-02-26 13:25:30	gordonDrogon	MacGeek, shopt option? You mean a shell variable?
2018-02-26 13:25:49	MacGeek	gordonDrogon: shopt -s compat32
2018-02-26 13:26:05	gordonDrogon	never seen that. no idea what it is.
2018-02-26 13:26:05	MacGeek	I just added it at the beginning of my shell script
2018-02-26 13:26:15	MacGeek	bash 3.2 compatibility mode
2018-02-26 13:26:29	gordonDrogon	oh right. I don't normally use bash.
2018-02-26 13:27:08	gordonDrogon	but typically shell variables would be inherited downwards but not exported upwards.
2018-02-26 13:27:17	MacGeek	I have this script which has been written on a mac, which uses a very old version of bash due to newer versions having a different GPL license
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2018-02-26 13:27:38	MacGeek	and modern bash has different behaviors when expanding []
2018-02-26 13:27:48	MacGeek	so it wouldn't work on the raspi out of the box
2018-02-26 13:28:00	MacGeek	but by adding that shopt option at the top of the script it works fine
2018-02-26 13:28:03	larsks	MacGeek: setting shell options only effects the current shell.
2018-02-26 13:29:01	larsks	(i.e. your original theory was correct)
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2018-02-26 13:36:19	Alexander-47u	gordonDrogon: no, just want to measure the water going through
2018-02-26 13:36:21	Alexander-47u	for now
2018-02-26 13:36:59	gordonDrogon	Alexander-47u, do check the minimum flow rate on them and start counting pulses.
2018-02-26 13:37:48	Alexander-47u	thank you :)
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2018-02-26 13:46:49	Alexander-47u	is this your page
2018-02-26 13:46:49	Alexander-47u	https://projects.drogon.net/
2018-02-26 13:47:43	gordonDrogon	yes
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2018-02-26 13:48:33	Alexander-47u	found your post on water sensors :D
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2018-02-26 13:48:52	gordonDrogon	I don't remember it..
2018-02-26 13:49:07	Alexander-47u	https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37924
2018-02-26 13:49:57	gordonDrogon	oh right.
2018-02-26 13:50:04	gordonDrogon	some time back :)
2018-02-26 13:50:52	AfonsoHenriques	quick question m8s
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2018-02-26 13:51:31	AfonsoHenriques	what is the better way to "cope" with energy consumption of rpi?
2018-02-26 13:51:45	gordonDrogon	plug it into the mains.
2018-02-26 13:51:56	ali1234	hamster wheel dynamo
2018-02-26 13:52:05	AfonsoHenriques	c'mon :(
2018-02-26 13:52:06	gordonDrogon	but you've not said why you need to "cope" with it.
2018-02-26 13:52:15	AfonsoHenriques	oh
2018-02-26 13:52:16	gordonDrogon	or what the issue is.
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2018-02-26 13:52:29	AfonsoHenriques	yes, sorry, not a native speaker
2018-02-26 13:52:43	gordonDrogon	and we're all on the spectrum here, so it cancels out.
2018-02-26 13:52:54	ali1234	we all know what the issue is - it doesn't have any power saving modes and even when you turn it to soft off it still uses like 50mA
2018-02-26 13:53:20	gordonDrogon	ali1234, right - but is that the issue AfonsoHenriques needs to cope with? I don't know..
2018-02-26 13:53:23	AfonsoHenriques	well, I'd like to use raspbian with one HDD (external) and one usb wireless adapter
2018-02-26 13:53:50	gordonDrogon	ok - use a separate PSU for the HDD and note that the Piv3 has an on-board Wi-Fi adapter.
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2018-02-26 13:55:11	AfonsoHenriques	yes, but doesnt have the power/range I need
2018-02-26 13:55:20	gordonDrogon	buy a new one!
2018-02-26 13:55:30	gordonDrogon	oh - hang on - you mean the Wi-Fi.
2018-02-26 13:55:34	AfonsoHenriques	I did it, the problem is when
2018-02-26 13:55:35	AfonsoHenriques	yeah
2018-02-26 13:56:00	gordonDrogon	well, wi-fi is rubbish anyway - use ethernet.
2018-02-26 13:56:05	r3	lol
2018-02-26 13:56:08	ali1234	the wifi range on pi 3 should be the same as any other wifi device
2018-02-26 13:56:16	gordonDrogon	*should* ...
2018-02-26 13:56:22	AfonsoHenriques	I think put everything in a nice and (expensive as fck) usb hub is the better alternative
2018-02-26 13:56:25	ali1234	however i have at least one that is faulty and only gets about 2 ft range
2018-02-26 13:56:32	AfonsoHenriques	yes, wifi sucks
2018-02-26 13:56:48	gordonDrogon	AfonsoHenriques, we try to keep it family friendly here - even abbreviations, etc. are frowned upon.
2018-02-26 13:56:53	ali1234	funnily enough it's the one i bought on release day
2018-02-26 13:57:07	AfonsoHenriques	gordonDrogon, sorry gordon.
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2018-02-26 13:58:02	AfonsoHenriques	(its actually nice to know that such communities are REALLY polite)
2018-02-26 13:58:15	MacGeek	I seem to remember that there's a pad where you can solder an antenna connector to use an external antenna?
2018-02-26 13:58:19	MacGeek	or is that on the zero W
2018-02-26 13:58:34	gordonDrogon	not sure but it's fiddly.
2018-02-26 13:58:42	AfonsoHenriques	no, isnt zero, is the 3
2018-02-26 13:58:53	gordonDrogon	a separate usb wi-fi dongle with separate antennae is probably better.
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2018-02-26 13:59:11	MacGeek	https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/43312/add-an-external-antenna-to-a-pi-3
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2018-02-26 13:59:41	AfonsoHenriques	incredible
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2018-02-26 14:03:28	AfonsoHenriques	talking about soldering stuff, one can just "remove" a wireless "chipset", replacing it with other model?
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2018-02-26 14:04:12	AfonsoHenriques	v.g.: RTL8188 chipsets are a pain in the bum, but AR9271 ones are the coolest
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2018-02-26 14:06:27		[Habbie away: bbl]
2018-02-26 14:06:40	AfonsoHenriques	Is it possible (reasonable possible) to remove the RTL8188 chip and solder the wifi adapter with AR9271 (or any other)?
2018-02-26 14:07:15	larsks	AfonsoHenriques: seems unlikely (I doubt the pinouts are identical).
2018-02-26 14:07:37	AfonsoHenriques	oy! good point
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2018-02-26 14:09:37	AfonsoHenriques	https://www.arrow.com/en/products/ar8033-al1a/qualcomm
2018-02-26 14:10:02	AfonsoHenriques	48 pins, lets see the cra- the realtek ones
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2018-02-26 14:13:36	Habbie	AfonsoHenriques, if you want a different chip, just stick the right usb dongle in
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2018-02-26 14:17:59	AfonsoHenriques	the problem - which is also a potentially cheaper way to have good wireless adaptars - is RTL818X doesnt work in any (at least) Debian and Ubuntu (and its n variants, including raspbian)
2018-02-26 14:21:06	AfonsoHenriques	if we can just replace to some decent CI (= Atheros and Ralink CIs, for instance)
2018-02-26 14:21:30	ali1234	but raspberry pi does not use RTL
2018-02-26 14:21:43	AfonsoHenriques	yeah, I'm talking about
2018-02-26 14:21:53	AfonsoHenriques	wait a minute, it isnt even about RPi
2018-02-26 14:22:34	AfonsoHenriques	... sorry, I'm new to these kind of stuff
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2018-02-26 14:23:42	BCMM	AfonsoHenriques: so were you talking about amd64 laptops or what?
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2018-02-26 14:25:11	BCMM	AfonsoHenriques: because on a typical laptop, the wireless adaptor is on a mini pcie card that can be swapped out with nothing more than a few screwdrivers
2018-02-26 14:25:20	AfonsoHenriques	yeah, PCI-E
2018-02-26 14:25:26	AfonsoHenriques	but I'm talking about this
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2018-02-26 14:26:16	AfonsoHenriques	https://www.dhresource.com/0x0s/f2-albu-g4-M01-57-A1-rBVaEFnJCY6ADaIPAAQMozFJOug065.jpg/ar8033-al1a-ar8033-qfn48-in-stock-new-and.jpg
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2018-02-26 14:28:21	AfonsoHenriques	long story short
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2018-02-26 14:29:24	AfonsoHenriques	replace this https://cdn1-techbang.pixfs.net/system/images/231660/original/5c96e81a0c1725bc6f19aaf98dc13806.jpg?1441184157
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2018-02-26 14:31:04	JimBuntu	AfonsoHenriques, is the ancillary circuits and components that drive them identical?
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2018-02-26 14:32:03	AfonsoHenriques	JimBuntu, I was trying to find this information, but no luck
2018-02-26 14:32:26	JimBuntu	AfonsoHenriques, I would be quite surprised if they are. The info is documented in the datasheet for each chip
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2018-02-26 14:33:30	AfonsoHenriques	hm
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2018-02-26 14:34:58	AfonsoHenriques	too hard for me
2018-02-26 14:35:08	andy1978	Habbie: even adding a microsecond sleep in the RTC polling routine is sufficient
2018-02-26 14:35:29	andy1978	Habbie: at the end it looks like a problem in the driver if RTC is polled too fast
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2018-02-26 14:39:49	Habbie	andy1978, ah!
2018-02-26 14:41:13	andy1978	I wonder what would be the best place to report/document this
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2018-02-26 14:48:04	freiform	Hi, anyone aware of chromecast-receiver software? There is gnomecast which enables streaming to a chromecast device, but i would like to use a Pi to act as chromecast receviver.
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2018-02-26 14:55:45	JimBuntu	freiform, does this help? https://support.google.com/edu/castforedu/?hl=en
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2018-02-26 14:58:19		[Habbie back: gone 00:51:52]
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2018-02-26 15:01:46	freiform	JimBuntu: I don't see how. I want to be able to stream audio content from a android device to my Pi connected to my stereo amp.
2018-02-26 15:02:02	blap	https://files.catbox.moe/c502sp.jpg   Did I show you the $10 dx.com pi3 cooling case? You can see the metal risers in the back; they contact the chips and draw the heat to the aluminum case, keeping the pi3 under 55C at any load.
2018-02-26 15:02:54	Tenkawa	Any of you using the headered pi zero yet?
2018-02-26 15:03:00	Tenkawa	how do you like it if so?
2018-02-26 15:03:13	JimBuntu	freiform, I think using that extension would allow you to do that, perhaps not the kind of solution you are looking for though
2018-02-26 15:03:16	Tenkawa	er pre-headered
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2018-02-26 15:04:13	MacGeek	I suspect most people in this channel may have decent soldering abilities and therefore prefer to solder it on themselves when needed
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2018-02-26 15:06:53	Tenkawa	MacGeek: It would still be a quick more straightforward put it together solution I can teach people however I need to evaluate if it is still going to require a lot of manual dexterity
2018-02-26 15:07:13	freiform	JimBuntu: Not what I am looking for, but thank you for the suggestion.
2018-02-26 15:07:46	-->	mmazing (~mmazing@unaffiliated/mmazing) has joined #raspberrypi
2018-02-26 15:08:32	Tenkawa	wow our local placed dropped the pi zero w 1.3 to 5$ isd
2018-02-26 15:08:40	Tenkawa	err usd
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2018-02-26 15:09:03	Tenkawa	nice
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2018-02-26 15:12:00	Tenkawa	now I just need to go get one
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2018-02-26 15:12:06	Tenkawa	(or more)
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2018-02-26 15:13:24	JimBuntu	Tenkawa, I'm not up on all the revisions... is there a Pi Zero W that is also 1.3 ? Or are they selling the Pi Zero 1.3 for $5 (like adafruit does) ?
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2018-02-26 15:13:51	Tenkawa	checking
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2018-02-26 15:15:01	Tenkawa	the one that got dropped to 5 is the 1.3 rev
2018-02-26 15:15:17	Tenkawa	1.3 rev zero w
2018-02-26 15:15:25	Tenkawa	i just compared sku's
2018-02-26 15:15:34	Tenkawa	sku/mfr part #'s
2018-02-26 15:15:46	JimBuntu	ah, ok. That's a good deal then if it has wifi for $5!
2018-02-26 15:15:50	Tenkawa	thats still nice.. 5$ is really nice
2018-02-26 15:17:04	Tenkawa	appears both places are asking 14/13.99 for the headered version
2018-02-26 15:17:23	Tenkawa	our local place (microcenter) wants one penny less
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2018-02-26 15:22:24	MacGeek	Tenkawa: if you're going to need a bunch of them and you determine that having your students/faculty solder them on is impractical or unfeasible, it may be worth considering the hammer header
2018-02-26 15:22:35	MacGeek	https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/gpio-hammer-header
2018-02-26 15:23:02	MacGeek	$7 for the first one, $2.33 for subsequent units since you already have the jig at that point
2018-02-26 15:23:33	Tenkawa	MacGeek: we're going to be giving them to people
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2018-02-26 15:23:40	MacGeek	still expensive but I guess still cheaper than the price difference between the W and WH, if your vendor has the W for $5
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2018-02-26 15:24:32	Tenkawa	so its going to be some of us who dont have best physical dexterity anymore
2018-02-26 15:24:40	Tenkawa	true
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2018-02-26 15:24:53	Tenkawa	didnt think about that
2018-02-26 15:25:02	Tenkawa	thanks for the input
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2018-02-26 15:25:53	Tenkawa	I still cant believe its already hit 5$
2018-02-26 15:25:58	Tenkawa	thats so wild
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2018-02-26 15:27:36	MacGeek	the zero W costs the equivalent of ~$12.75 here
2018-02-26 15:27:49	Tenkawa	ouch
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2018-02-26 15:28:10	Tenkawa	sorry to hear
2018-02-26 15:29:13	Tenkawa	I imaging this is going to hurt pi 3 sales a bit
2018-02-26 15:29:27	MacGeek	I'd still ask your vendor for confirmation - according to the RPi foundation, there is no Zero W rev 1.3
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2018-02-26 15:30:08	MacGeek	whereas the non-W Zero is at rev 1.3
2018-02-26 15:30:39	MacGeek	something's not right - either it really is a discounted Zero W and they got the revision number wrong, or they got the revision number right but it's a plain Zero
2018-02-26 15:30:44	Tenkawa	oh>
2018-02-26 15:30:47	Tenkawa	hmmm
2018-02-26 15:31:50	Tenkawa	adafruits page and microcenter both reference:
2018-02-26 15:31:56	Tenkawa	The new Raspberry Pi Zero W offers all the benefits of the Pi Zero v1.3,
2018-02-26 15:32:55	Tenkawa	thats copy/pasted from adafruit
2018-02-26 15:33:38	MacGeek	that is correct, the Pi Zero W, apart from the added WiFi+BT, is otherwise equivalent in hardware to the Pi Zero v1.3
2018-02-26 15:33:49	MacGeek	the board revision of the Pi Zero W is 1.1 though
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2018-02-26 15:34:43	Tenkawa	yep
2018-02-26 15:34:48	MacGeek	so if that's where you got the reference to v1.3, then the sentence is correct and it looks like it is indeed a Zero W
2018-02-26 15:34:51	Tenkawa	but that has no networking hardware on it
2018-02-26 15:35:11	Tenkawa	I'm strictly looking at the W lines
2018-02-26 15:35:54	JimBuntu	Tenkawa, can you share a link?
2018-02-26 15:36:05	Tenkawa	for which?
2018-02-26 15:36:16	MacGeek	I guess it's http://www.microcenter.com/product/486575/Zero_W
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2018-02-26 15:36:58	Tenkawa	thanks.. didnt know what he was asking for
2018-02-26 15:37:23	JimBuntu	If that's the link, it's only the first one thats $5, then the price goes up to $14.99 and above wow
2018-02-26 15:37:51	inook	why dont my dropboc upload code work? löast line in the scruipt https://ideone.com/7DXQO8
2018-02-26 15:38:26	Tenkawa	JimBuntu: just a sec
2018-02-26 15:38:36	Tenkawa	yres
2018-02-26 15:38:38	Tenkawa	yes
2018-02-26 15:39:07	Tenkawa	thats the way they do their limit one modeling
2018-02-26 15:39:27	Tenkawa	they dont "limit" you as much as "encourage" you
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2018-02-26 15:52:40		[Habbie away: bbl]
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2018-02-26 16:10:20	stiv	inook, arg to call() is a list of args. not a list of one item
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2018-02-26 16:13:20	Alexander-47u	are waterflow sensors effective for measuring water in liters?
2018-02-26 16:14:22	red9	What is your demand on precision, repeatability and long term stable measurement?
2018-02-26 16:15:05	Alexander-47u	it will be used to measure tap water at multiple locations permanently
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2018-02-26 16:15:20	r3	well, flow is measured in m^3/s not liters?
2018-02-26 16:15:25	red9	Has anyone stumbled upon any obstacles to run the RPi with Raspbian for a really long time?
2018-02-26 16:15:40	Alexander-47u	r3, same for me xD
2018-02-26 16:15:58	blap	red9: i manage to hang-up xorg every now and then
2018-02-26 16:15:58	r3	red9: nope, I've a bunch that I've been running non-stop for several years.  The only issue I've had is the SD card wearing out
2018-02-26 16:16:07	gordonDrogon	a cubic meter of water is 1000 liters. so same difference.
2018-02-26 16:16:09	Alexander-47u	1m3 is 1000 liters.
2018-02-26 16:16:26	Alexander-47u	ye
2018-02-26 16:16:29	blap	yes but how many moles
2018-02-26 16:16:33	r3	my point was that it is measured as a flow, not a volume
2018-02-26 16:16:33	red9	r3, I'll presume he wants to know how large volume that is used during a specific unit of time.
2018-02-26 16:16:40	gordonDrogon	Alexander-47u, the sensor you get should tell you how many pulses per liter (or pint).
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2018-02-26 16:17:32	gordonDrogon	fwiw: I use in-line flow sensors to measure beer in a small brewery environment.
2018-02-26 16:17:50	gordonDrogon	cheaper ones are not accurate at low flow rates.
2018-02-26 16:17:58	r3	interesting
2018-02-26 16:18:21	red9	If it's to estimate future bills. Then perhaps ultrasound pprobes externally would do?
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2018-02-26 16:19:14	red9	(send ping, measure how far away the pong comes. Distance 0 flow speed. flow*area*time=volume)
2018-02-26 16:19:16	stiv	as a general rule, cheap sensors are less accurate and less stable.  sometimes, quality matters
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2018-02-26 16:21:44	r3	speaking of non-cheap sensors, I managed to get on omega's mailing list several decades ago and they would send out massive volumes of very nice full color hard-bound catalogs chock full of photos and articles.  I'm sure they don't do that much anymore and that the web has been hugely helpful for them
2018-02-26 16:21:46	Alexander-47u	gordonDrogon: could you give me an example model of a in-line flow sensor please?
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2018-02-26 16:22:25	gordonDrogon	https://www.adafruit.com/product/828
2018-02-26 16:22:27	gordonDrogon	cheap one.
2018-02-26 16:23:24	red9	mechanical + cheap = shit waiting to happen? ;)
2018-02-26 16:23:27	stiv	nice steampunk look!
2018-02-26 16:23:48	@IT_Sean	Oi! Red9: language
2018-02-26 16:24:28	Alexander-47u	thanks gordon
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2018-02-26 16:26:32	r3	Alexander-47u: here's a neat document about a type of flowmeter:  https://www.omega.com/toc_asp/frameset.html?book=Green&file=TURBINE_PADDLE_REF
2018-02-26 16:27:24	Alexander-47u	r3, thanks thats great. just what I needed
2018-02-26 16:28:01	r3	the catalogs from them were often full of useful information and graphs like in that .pdf - I have a whole shelf of the old catalogs that I can't bring myself to recycle.  Heck they even sent me a deck of cards once...
2018-02-26 16:30:43	GenteelBen	IT_Big_Sean
2018-02-26 16:30:55	@IT_Sean	.... Yes?
2018-02-26 16:34:42	GenteelBen	IT_Sean_Puffy_Combs
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2018-02-26 16:35:17	GenteelBen	IT_Sean_Paul
2018-02-26 16:35:49	gordonDrogon	what on earth are you on about, GenteelBen ?
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2018-02-26 16:36:20	red9	r3, setup a automatic book scanner. And then dump those paper volumes?
2018-02-26 16:36:47	GenteelBen	gordonDrogon: I see you are not well versed in the rap game.
2018-02-26 16:37:05	gordonDrogon	Right. Should I be?
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2018-02-26 16:38:45	GenteelBen	Sean "Puffy" Combs, Sean Paul and Big Sean are like the Pi, Pi 2 and Pi Zero of the rap business.
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2018-02-26 16:39:56	gordonDrogon	fine, but I don't care for rap and as this is a Pi channel, maybe keep it Pi specific?
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2018-02-26 16:40:59	red9	I think Gordon have a point.. ;)
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2018-02-26 16:45:35	@IT_Sean	GenteelBen: what do you want?
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2018-02-26 17:03:46	willc	I have ubuntu bash installed on windows 10, is there any way of accessing the raspberrypi microsd from it?
2018-02-26 17:03:58	willc	I am caught in a boot loop and now I'm looking at ways of fixing it
2018-02-26 17:04:18	willc	Need to access the file system. The only other way I know is ubuntu livecd
2018-02-26 17:04:20	Habbie	i am unsure that environment gives you an ext2 filesystem driver
2018-02-26 17:04:32	Habbie	can you 'cat /proc/filesystems' ?
2018-02-26 17:04:49	<--	lachm (~lachm@irc.lachm.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2018-02-26 17:05:21	willc	Habbie, :) I'll do that once it is booted back up. I'm attempting the livecd method
2018-02-26 17:05:23	taza	willc Long story short, Windows 10 can't do it
2018-02-26 17:05:39	willc	taza, thanks
2018-02-26 17:06:05	Habbie	taza, how about fuseext2?
2018-02-26 17:06:07	taza	The bits of the Ubuntu subsystem that would enable it only work with NTFS for now.
2018-02-26 17:06:24	taza	Habbie Have you got any evidence fuseext2 works?
2018-02-26 17:06:28	Habbie	i do not
2018-02-26 17:06:59	Habbie	e2tools perhaps then?
2018-02-26 17:07:04	willc	I read something about that. Someone had mentioned drvfs but it wasn't working either
2018-02-26 17:07:12	taza	Habbie got any evidence that will work?
2018-02-26 17:07:20	Habbie	no, why do you keep asking that?
2018-02-26 17:07:21	taza	Habbie stop guessing you got Google to check.
2018-02-26 17:07:31	Habbie	i am not googling
2018-02-26 17:07:36	taza	Exactly.
2018-02-26 17:07:39	taza	Start googling.
2018-02-26 17:07:39	Habbie	and you are not being friendly
2018-02-26 17:07:39	<--	inook (~benne@h-147-123.A303.priv.bahnhof.se) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2018-02-26 17:07:49	taza	And you are not being useful
2018-02-26 17:07:54	--	Topic for #raspberrypi is "Unofficial RaspberryPi IRC channel but "Blessed" by the Foundation as the ONE channel. | Logs: http://srv.datagutt1.com | Rules: https://goo.gl/h5qPhz"
2018-02-26 17:07:54	--	Topic set by gordonDrogon (~gordon@2001:4d48:ad51:8901::2) on Sat, 24 Dec 2016 15:04:53
2018-02-26 17:08:06	willc	I appreciate all the inputs :)
2018-02-26 17:08:20	willc	omg I hate when windows forces updates :/
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2018-02-26 17:08:41	taza	willc You can unbreak that with auoptions registry fuckery, but it doesn't work 100%
2018-02-26 17:08:44	willc	"restart with updates or shutdown with updates" "how about just restart?" "no"
2018-02-26 17:09:03	taza	Windows 10: It's not a finished OS... still.
2018-02-26 17:09:19	willc	Would moving a file that has been enabled as a service cause a bootloop?
2018-02-26 17:09:26	willc	I can't think of anything else I did that would cause the problem
2018-02-26 17:09:32	taza	Maybe, maybe not.
2018-02-26 17:09:34	Habbie	willc, do you have any console output for your bootloop?
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2018-02-26 17:09:48	willc	Habbie, I get to the point before ubuntu desktop pops up
2018-02-26 17:10:02	willc	I get colour calibration and initial boot screen
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2018-02-26 17:10:28	red9	Maybe the boot look can be thwarted in the FAT32 portion?
2018-02-26 17:10:35	red9	loop.
2018-02-26 17:10:45	taza	IT_Sean Unchecked swearword, or something else?
2018-02-26 17:10:55	@IT_Sean	That, and your attitude
2018-02-26 17:11:08	willc	I was ssh'd in and went to browse a directory containing a bunch of images.
2018-02-26 17:11:23	willc	then it disconnected and every time I tried booting system kept looping
2018-02-26 17:11:24	taza	My attitude is fine. He could have checked his guesses with Google before saying them here.
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2018-02-26 17:11:56	willc	previous to accessing the dir I deleted some stuff  (chromium install files)
2018-02-26 17:11:59	@IT_Sean	Ned you don't have to be a jerk about it.  Adjust your attitude and watch your language.  You are thiiiis close to a 5 day ban.
2018-02-26 17:12:06	@IT_Sean	*and
2018-02-26 17:12:10	taza	gordonDrogon, input?
2018-02-26 17:13:48	taza	I have no idea how I'd communicate "Google before you guess" without coming across a jerk to some people, by the way.
2018-02-26 17:14:30	willc	I have done the googling
2018-02-26 17:14:36	willc	though I think you mean someone else
2018-02-26 17:14:44	taza	Not you, you did nothing I'd be annoyed by.
2018-02-26 17:14:45	red9	Perhaps ext* partitions can be accessed from Windoze by setting up a "network service" locally that acts like a fileserver but with a local ext-* block read backend. Or even a filesystem driver for the hardcore person.
2018-02-26 17:14:54	@IT_Sean	Attitude is hard t oreads across text.  To me, and another op, you came across as kind of a ungrateful jerk.  If that's not how your comments were intended, I apologize.  That said, if someone is trying to help you, even if just by googling, they being thankful.
2018-02-26 17:15:11	@IT_Sean	Also, sorry for the typos, I'm on a touchscreen here.
2018-02-26 17:15:31	@IT_Sean	*try being thankful.
2018-02-26 17:15:52	taza	No, I legit want to know how to communicate "please try to check if someone else has tried that answer to this question by Googling it before you confuse the issue" without coming across as a jerk.
2018-02-26 17:16:59	taza	red9 Yeah, that's why the short version is "Windows 10 can't do it" and the long answer is "you know that expression about regular expressions?"
2018-02-26 17:17:40	willc	I should probably become more affluent in regex
2018-02-26 17:17:47	willc	Seems to be handy and cross platform
2018-02-26 17:17:57	GenteelBen	affluent?
2018-02-26 17:18:05	taza	No it's a running regex joke where you have a problem, and then you try using regex, and then you have two problems.
2018-02-26 17:18:06	BCMM	so i just got my raspberry pi 3 and plugged it in to a TV. this works much better than my original model b for kodi, but the TV now makes a noise that i can only describe as "exactly like coil whine"
2018-02-26 17:18:11	willc	oops
2018-02-26 17:18:15	BCMM	but it's definitely coming out of the speakers
2018-02-26 17:18:18	willc	GenteelBen, just fluent
2018-02-26 17:18:37	gordonDrogon	taza, input on what? (and why?)
2018-02-26 17:18:39	GenteelBen	willc: RegEx has lots of use cases, but if it's important to your job then you need to invest in a session with Genteel Consulting's career planning division.
2018-02-26 17:18:43	BCMM	could this be caused by some sort of emi from the pi, and is there any way to work around this?
2018-02-26 17:18:55	@IT_Sean	BCMM: try a different power supply. That sort of thing is almost always a grounding or PSU issue
2018-02-26 17:19:12	taza	gordonDrogon on how to do "Google to see if your answer works BEFORE you answer with something that doesn't work" without coming across as a jerk?
2018-02-26 17:19:22	stiv	'coil whine', that's a blast from the past!
2018-02-26 17:19:25	GenteelBen	willc: look at something like this https://regexr.com/
2018-02-26 17:19:26	BCMM	IT_Sean: ah - at the same time i switched to the pi 3, i switched to using an official power supply instead of my spare phone charger
2018-02-26 17:19:31	gordonDrogon	taza, and why are you asking me?
2018-02-26 17:19:40	@IT_Sean	BCMM: try the old PSU
2018-02-26 17:19:50	GenteelBen	stiv: my old monitor still has coil whine. It's a 2048x1152 Dell monitor from 2009.
2018-02-26 17:20:00	willc	thanks for the input GenteelBen
2018-02-26 17:20:04	willc	I've been using regex101.com
2018-02-26 17:20:13	taza	Because, frankly, you're the best at the whole "moderating" part of "moderation" around these corners, and can usually say what I'm sayin' without pissing folk off.
2018-02-26 17:20:20	GenteelBen	willc: but you will get much further learning something like Python.
2018-02-26 17:20:21	@IT_Sean	That SCREEEEEEEEEE noise is usually due to a squiffy power supply, or a bad ground somewhere.
2018-02-26 17:20:28	BCMM	IT_Sean: i'll try that now. however, i would have assumed that the official psu would be good...
2018-02-26 17:20:42	@IT_Sean	You know what happens when you assume...
2018-02-26 17:20:46	taza	stiv: Coil whine, a blast from the RIGHT NOW. I'm seriously tempted to open up my 40in TV just to get rid of it.
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2018-02-26 17:20:53	willc	GenteelBen, yes. I work with js/php/python. Regex has its use cases
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2018-02-26 17:21:03	 *	IT_Sean whines about coils
2018-02-26 17:21:06	BCMM	IT_Sean: then again, the cable is very long and does not look like it's shielded
2018-02-26 17:21:19	@IT_Sean	Try a shielded cable
2018-02-26 17:21:31	GenteelBen	A shorter shielded cable.
2018-02-26 17:21:36	@IT_Sean	Yes
2018-02-26 17:21:38	GenteelBen	Do the opposite of what your problem is.
2018-02-26 17:21:44	taza	BCMM tinfoil
2018-02-26 17:21:58	taza	That's not even a joke.
2018-02-26 17:22:02	@IT_Sean	#TinfoilHat
2018-02-26 17:22:06	taza	Though a tinfoil hat also helps
2018-02-26 17:22:17	GenteelBen	You should invest in a tinfoil merkin, taza.
2018-02-26 17:22:46	@IT_Sean	That's totes innapropes, dude
2018-02-26 17:22:49	taza	I like the breeze though???
2018-02-26 17:22:54	GenteelBen	lol
2018-02-26 17:23:06	GenteelBen	It's like a single 50ft strand of copper wire all tangled.
2018-02-26 17:23:07	taza	BCMM Tinfoil, then duct tape.
2018-02-26 17:23:12	Alexander-47u	does anyone know any sensors for measuring the length of a button press?
2018-02-26 17:23:25	GenteelBen	Pressure sensors, Alexander-47u?
2018-02-26 17:23:38	GenteelBen	Or you mean something which measures how long the circuit is complete?
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2018-02-26 17:23:55	Alexander-47u	and also, for the amount of button presses :P?
2018-02-26 17:24:08	taza	BCMM Crinkles when moving, but easily answers if the shielding would fix it.
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2018-02-26 17:26:48	Alexander-47u	GenteelBen: want to add sensors to an existing water dispenser
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2018-02-26 17:27:29	BCMM	IT_Sean: i've gone back to the old psu+cable, and same result
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2018-02-26 17:27:42	@IT_Sean	BCMM: well, poo
2018-02-26 17:27:48	BCMM	(the one that worked fine on the 1st gen model b)
2018-02-26 17:28:11	taza	How you doing audio?
2018-02-26 17:28:12	BCMM	it *feels* like the problem has to do with frequency scaling, since it seems to mostly happen when the thing is idle
2018-02-26 17:28:18	BCMM	taza: hdmi
2018-02-26 17:28:23	taza	Forced HDMI only?
2018-02-26 17:28:24	BCMM	the TV is the thing actually producing hte audio
2018-02-26 17:28:28	@IT_Sean	Weihd
2018-02-26 17:28:52	BCMM	if i mute the tv, the noises stop, so i guess the noises come from the tv speakers
2018-02-26 17:29:09	taza	Hrrm, something in my brain is currently cranking its gears.
2018-02-26 17:29:10	BCMM	the whole thing sounds kinda ground-loopy, but as far as i can see the pi doesn't have any earth at all
2018-02-26 17:29:13	BCMM	neither PSU has an earth pin
2018-02-26 17:29:28	BCMM	oh, pi is on ethernet
2018-02-26 17:29:34	BCMM	i'll go and unplug that and see if it goes away
2018-02-26 17:29:35	taza	Impromptu-shielding the HDMI cable might work.
2018-02-26 17:30:03	taza	What I actually did - actually, believe it or not - was accidentally ground the 3.5mm connections / RCA connections
2018-02-26 17:30:29	taza	While testing if the problem would go away using 3.5mm audio
2018-02-26 17:30:48	taza	It didn't. But the HDMI was fixed.
2018-02-26 17:32:18	BCMM	back. pulling ethernet didn't fix it.
2018-02-26 17:32:51	BCMM	the hdmi cable *is* crap. like, bad enough that it's just about possible that the problem was caused by one more plugging/unplugging on that cable, not by switching out the pis
2018-02-26 17:33:33	BCMM	taza: if nothing else was grounding the pi, then that doesn't seem unbelievable in the slightest
2018-02-26 17:33:51	BCMM	taza: how exactly did you ground it? just plugged it in to a grounded hifi?
2018-02-26 17:34:23	taza	Plugged the 3.5mm jack of the PI into RCA inputs on the TV
2018-02-26 17:34:39	BCMM	i mean i still think it's silly if there's a ground loop on a *digital* audio connection, but I'm reasonably happy to just assume that the DAC on my TV is horribly isolated
2018-02-26 17:35:02	BCMM	TV was bought because it was on discount at tesco a few years ago
2018-02-26 17:35:09	@IT_Sean	Do you have a different hdmi lead?
2018-02-26 17:35:15	taza	Yeaaah I had a "???" moment myself then too.
2018-02-26 17:35:27	@IT_Sean	Mayhaps a shorter one?
2018-02-26 17:35:28	BCMM	IT_Sean: i do, but it's going to be horribly inconvenient to try it :)
2018-02-26 17:35:41	@IT_Sean	May be worth it...
2018-02-26 17:35:41	BCMM	current lead is actually too short
2018-02-26 17:36:00	BCMM	i'll try the 3.5mm thing first i think just because it's so much easier
2018-02-26 17:36:14	taza	I mean, no guarantees, I'm pretty sure it SHOULDN'T work.
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2018-02-26 17:36:29	taza	But then, that TV is also a massive discount case with some interesting design options
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2018-02-26 17:39:24	willc	I'm such a pleb. So it was because i had to raspberrypi plugged into my tv's usb that it rebooted when I switched sources. oops
2018-02-26 17:39:32	willc	otherwise is it running fine
2018-02-26 17:39:44	BCMM	talking of the tv's USB
2018-02-26 17:40:09	taza	willc It's always the last thing you troubleshoot
2018-02-26 17:40:19	BCMM	how bad an idea would it be to make a custom usb cable that just joins to grounded USB sleaves of the pi and the tv together?
2018-02-26 17:40:31	BCMM	no data connection, no power connection?
2018-02-26 17:40:43	@IT_Sean	I mean... It shouldn't blow anything up, if that is what you are asking....
2018-02-26 17:40:49	willc	I since plugged it into a power source and was able to login no problem. Oh the Pleb life :P
2018-02-26 17:40:50	@IT_Sean	I'm not sure I see the point. Though
2018-02-26 17:40:52	BCMM	that sound good enough for me
2018-02-26 17:40:57	willc	Ahh well. I had taken the time to setup docker :)
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2018-02-26 17:41:35	@IT_Sean	Bcmm the outer shield on the hdmi is a ground, so your pi and the tv are already on the same ground plane, unless your tv is really horribly designed
2018-02-26 17:42:08	willc	I'm looking forward to getting a POE shield for the pi
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2018-02-26 17:44:13		[Habbie back: gone 01:51:33]
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2018-02-26 17:46:38	Alexander-47u	willc
2018-02-26 17:46:40	Alexander-47u	pleb
2018-02-26 17:46:51	Alexander-47u	dont hear that very often xD
2018-02-26 17:48:03	willc	Alexander-47u,  :)
2018-02-26 17:48:17	willc	Alexander-47u, I'm bringing it back!
2018-02-26 17:49:25	GenteelBen	He's bringing sexy back.
2018-02-26 17:50:41	@IT_Sean	   
2018-02-26 17:50:52	willc	yay I didn't break all the things :D
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2018-02-26 17:50:57	Alexander-47u	most people do not know what it means
2018-02-26 17:51:21	willc	As a pleb, I thought I'd at least read about my origins :P
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2018-02-26 18:00:49	BCMM	IT_Sean: i am reluctant to discount the possibility of the tv being horribly designed
2018-02-26 18:00:51	BCMM	but
2018-02-26 18:01:02	BCMM	i've found a fix: i turned interface noises off in kodi!
2018-02-26 18:01:25	BCMM	i'd jumped to some sort of power problem because the sounds it makes are so much like a power problem
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2018-02-26 18:01:39	BCMM	so i thought it was the cpu scaling when i opened and closed menus and so on
2018-02-26 18:01:58	BCMM	but actually it was happening *after playing the interface noises*, not *after opening menus*
2018-02-26 18:02:26	BCMM	i can only imagine that the DAC on the TV is really, really stupid, and i just never listened carefully enough to notice it before
2018-02-26 18:02:34	BCMM	because i fail to see how the new pi would do this
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2018-02-26 18:04:41	BCMM	thanks for the ideas, everyone
2018-02-26 18:05:35	--	Nicks #raspberrypi: [@ChanServ @IT_Sean [Butch] [Saint] [SLB] __builtin _BigWings_ _Jordan _oldtopman _Trullo a3f a5m0 AaronMT acfrazier Adran aem afen AgentVenom aib akk AKPWD Albori Alesk13 Alexander-47u AlexanderS alexxy ali1234 Allen alphawarrior Alynna AM andatche andi andreas303 Angeris AntiComposite antion ap5 Aph3x-WL Aranel Arcaelyx argoneus arha_ arti AshIndigo asteele atomi aykut azizLIGHT azy Bambus BCMM BeamWatcher Ben64 BenderRodriguez BenGrimm benoliver999 berton Bhaal bhez binaryhermit bkuhl blahdodo blap bleepy Blubberbub bobp bobstro BOHverkill BOKALDO Bonn333 bpye brackets brainslug brokaw brouette Bryanstein bsf BurtyB busybox42 butlerx butterthebuddha cache_return cachinnate caoliver Cavedude cccyRegeaneWolfe Ceber cereal Cheery chen Chepra chithead chod choscura CHRiSNEW ChunkzZ ChunkzZ1 CJammer clemens3 clickboom clonak clopez Clouder cmaj9 Code_Red CoJaBo colints Colti CompanionCube comptroller Crash-1 CrazyEddy Crenn-NAS Creyon CRImier crossan007 cryptic Cu5tosLim3n cyanide cyberzeus cybr1d cybrian CygniX cyphase d0rm0us3 d4re dan_j dansan darksim DaRock DarthJoel dashed datagutt deetwelve defsdoor Defunk designbybeck Deusdeorum Dev0n devster31 deww dex1983 divine divx118 djakov DJDan djhworld djoot djsxxx_away dlech DoctorD90 donbruno dostoyevsky Dragon092 Draylor drewmcmillan DrJ Druid dskull dtype Duckle duoi duracrisis dustinm` e2k eb0t- ebarch edumass egilhh ejsf Ekho eldritch Ellied en1gmaa ephemer0l erhandsome ericnoan eripa Ether_Man EvilDMP exotime extor f1y_ fatalhalt fds Fenhl finlstrm Firnwath flipp Floflobel flugger fogus fractex fredp freijon funnel Furna_ fury fxrs Gathis Geekologist genr8_ GenteelBen GerhardSchr gerry666 ghoti Gizmokid2005 gko gobostone godlessfather gordonDrogon GreaseMonkey Greg-J greggerz greku grossing gruetzkopf grummund_ Guest73677 guideline H4ndy H__ Habbie HalfEatenPie halfhalo hank Hasselsaurus Haxxa HeathHayle HerculeP HeXiLeD hid3 High_Priest HighInBC Hitechcg hmmwhatsthisdo Hobby Hobbyboy Hoerie HrdwrBoB HtheB huatou I_Died_Once ika_hoch1 iKarith Ilyas indy infernix inook iNsAn|tY integral invisiblek ircuser-1 jacekowski jaeckel jak JakeSays Janhouse janpjens jarod JasonCL javi404 jcjordyn120 jelly jerryq jgeboski jiffe JimBuntu jmcgnh jmondi John882 JohnWayne JStoker Jusii justinmrkva Kaj Kamilion kamyl katnip KaZeR kcaj Keanu73 kenlee kerio Kerr-A_ Kev- KevinCarbonara kevinsan Killerkid kingarmadillo kireevco Kochergan kopper kopykat koss Kostenko kriger Kryczek ksft ktsamis kubaxvx kushal kzisme lachm lankanmon LarrySteeze larsks Lartza LaunchDirector laurent\ ld50_ Leeky_ leio lem0n lemonzest leothrix leptonix lerc lewd LFlare lif lilwiz limon linuxdaemon Logicwax loglaunch lohfu Louis Lucifer lungaro lupinedk lvrp16 m0j0dj0dj0 m3m0 M3mphiZ m3rcury m4dh4tt4 MacGeek macskay Madatnek MaekSo majorshake mal_will mang0 ManTK Maqs markmcb markus-k MarkusDBX marlinc marshallplace Mathuin Matt mave_ Mazon mdunn Megaf meinside mete meti mfa298 mhoney Milhouse milk minionofgozer mischievio mjgardner mjolnird mk-fg mlelstv mophie MoziM mpmc mr_booler MrGeneral MrNaz msev- mSSM mumixam murkk mutex86 Mutsumi Muzer Myk267 Myrtti mythos n0nada N3LRX Nauti NavyBear-Pi nemesit|znc Neros Net147 Netham45 nevodka ngc0202 nickd25 NickG365 nickware-idle nicoulaj NightMonkey nighty- Nik05 nils_2 niston nix-7 njalk noexcept nolsen nom-ent noodle noregret norlevo nshire nyt Obi-Wan ohnx olebrom Olipro olivetree_ on1x oq orangeacme orb outofsorts owad ozy p71 Pagan ParkerR Parsi patteh pcmerc_work pebble` Pedr0 pfcode phil42 phorce1_home physpi Pi42 Pinapl pitastrudl PityDaFool pixel_yo pk12 pklaus PlasmaStar Plastiq plum poxifide ppolo99 pppingme Psi-Jack ptx0 puff pulec puzzola pwillard Qatz quackgyver r00ter r00tobo r3 rafalcpp Rai-chan RaTTuS|BIG ravustaja raynold RaySl razzy rcombs rdg_ realies red9 reds Reedy Rev_Illo ric96 richardpotthoff Rickta59 riddle rikai ring0 Robdgreat RoBo_V Roedy romano2k ronaldlokers RoyK Rukus rwb 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2018-02-26 18:05:35	--	Channel #raspberrypi: 657 nicks (2 ops, 0 voices, 655 normals)
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2018-02-26 18:28:44	Alexander-47u	what are the pro's and cons of a turbine sensor apposed to a paddlewheel sensor
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2018-02-26 18:35:01	gordonDrogon	Alexander-47u, you're really asking in the wrong place - although you might get lucky here.
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2018-02-26 18:35:35	Alexander-47u	ye I guess xD
2018-02-26 18:38:48	@IT_Sean	Glad you got it working, BCMM
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2018-02-26 18:42:35	taza	BCMM ... I'm guessing it's that the new setup adds noise to the digital signal, and the DAC is just a Very Silly Design that picks up the noise as signal and keeps interpreting it until it goes "oh this isn't strong enough"
2018-02-26 18:42:53	taza	I've ran across many a VSD in discount electronics
2018-02-26 18:44:13	BCMM	taza: that actually seems plausible
2018-02-26 18:44:24	BCMM	i wonder if there's a way i can force the pi to keep the hdmi audio output open
2018-02-26 18:44:31	<--	mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2018-02-26 18:44:32	inook	how do i delete alll files in a folderalll files are .jpg format with python
2018-02-26 18:44:37	Alexander-47u	is a turbine sensor and a paddlewheel sensor the same thing xD?
2018-02-26 18:44:38	BCMM	i.e. send constant silence when not sending anything else
2018-02-26 18:44:46	Habbie	inook, why with python?
2018-02-26 18:45:23	taza	BCMM Might have to add white noise?
2018-02-26 18:45:45	taza	Or pink noise, rather
2018-02-26 18:45:51	inook	Habbie,  i want to clear a folder with pictures with my python script. at first  i tried with subprocess but ppl told me to use python instead
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2018-02-26 18:46:23	Habbie	inook, then look at os.walk
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2018-02-26 18:46:24	BCMM	inook: maybe try #python
2018-02-26 18:46:28	Habbie	inook, but #python might be better for this
2018-02-26 18:46:31	BCMM	doesn't sound like there's anything pi-specific about that
2018-02-26 18:46:45	inook	im in the python channeö ii asked there to
2018-02-26 18:47:00	inook	cant ask for help in to many channweels, right?
2018-02-26 18:47:09	Habbie	i have now answered there as well
2018-02-26 18:47:10	BCMM	inook: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6703668/deleting-certain-files-using-python
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2018-02-26 18:47:53	taza	I wonder if config_hdmi_boost does anything for the audio
2018-02-26 18:48:01	inook	im using python to capture a picture when sense-hat joystick is pressed so its kind of a Raspberry Pi related quesrtion
2018-02-26 18:48:26	taza	BCMM: Googling "config_hdmi_boost" is relevant? to you
2018-02-26 18:48:45	taza	The hdmi signal strength was changed during the hardware revisions
2018-02-26 18:50:30	BCMM	taza: i'll give that a try, thanks
2018-02-26 18:51:06	taza	BCMM if it works, your hdmi cable is garbage
2018-02-26 18:51:16	BCMM	well i tried 2 different cables
2018-02-26 18:51:21	BCMM	but actually
2018-02-26 18:51:30	BCMM	how do you get hdmi cables that aren't rubbish?
2018-02-26 18:51:37	taza	I just grab AmazonBasics
2018-02-26 18:51:42	BCMM	like, i presume there's some middle ground between overpriced gold plated stuff and
2018-02-26 18:51:43	BCMM	oh
2018-02-26 18:51:47	BCMM	i was about to mention amazon basics actually
2018-02-26 18:51:58	BCMM	i got one from there that just doesn't do hdmi cec
2018-02-26 18:52:04	BCMM	everything else works fine with it
2018-02-26 18:52:15	BCMM	but CEC just won't work
2018-02-26 18:52:44	BCMM	shouldn't be possible i know, but it's definitely happening
2018-02-26 18:53:10	Habbie	cec is a standalone pin
2018-02-26 18:53:17	Habbie	so it's entirely possible to have a cable that works except cec
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2018-02-26 18:53:23	Habbie	i must say i've never seen it myself though :)
2018-02-26 18:53:35	taza	The AmazonBasics are "the cheapest that works acceptably", reliably
2018-02-26 18:53:53	Habbie	it turns out you can buy hdmi adapters that kill the cec pin
2018-02-26 18:53:54	Habbie	makes sense
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2018-02-26 18:54:20	BCMM	Habbie: but iirc that pin is mandatory
2018-02-26 18:54:34	Habbie	hmm yes, would surprise me if not
2018-02-26 18:54:38	taza	Mandatory doesn't mean implemented
2018-02-26 18:54:43	Habbie	if you have a multimeter you can test it :)
2018-02-26 18:54:51	taza	Or for that matter, functional
2018-02-26 18:54:58	taza	You can force CEC on in config.txt too
2018-02-26 18:56:00	BCMM	i mean, either amazon decided to leave out a wire that is required by the spec, or they do not reliably connect every wire they do include
2018-02-26 18:56:02	BCMM	neither is good
2018-02-26 18:56:41	Habbie	BCMM, and you are sure this is a cable problem?
2018-02-26 18:56:50	BCMM	well it work fine on 2 other cables
2018-02-26 18:56:55	Habbie	that's clear then
2018-02-26 18:57:00	BCMM	(cec i mean)
2018-02-26 18:57:25	taza	Might just be the TV being iffy about it. Tried forcing CEC via config.txt?
2018-02-26 18:57:38	BCMM	it *might* be that the TV doesn't reliably pick up CEC every time after changing a cable, but i'd be quite a coincidence as i tried it a few times
2018-02-26 18:57:50	BCMM	taza: that sounds like it's worth a try actually
2018-02-26 18:58:06	taza	Ooor it's a VSD and doesn't negotiate it right.
2018-02-26 18:58:07	BCMM	also i haven't tried that cable with the pi 3 (and its increased hdmi voltage)
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2018-02-26 18:58:18	BCMM	taza: this tv definitely features VSD
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2018-02-26 18:58:47	BCMM	taza: for example, sometimes when the pi requests focus (or whatever it's called when you ask to be the current input on the tv), the tv switched to the wrong input
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2018-02-26 18:59:37	BCMM	like, it's on hdmi2, showing kodi's screensaver. i press a button causing the pi to wake up and request focus. the tv switches to hdmi1.
2018-02-26 18:59:56	BCMM	(the fix is switching the tv off and on after changing which port the pi is plugged in to)
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2018-02-26 19:00:26	BCMM	buying the cheapest hd-ready TV at tesco is actually quite entertaining
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2018-02-26 19:00:56	taza	Yeah no, this thing I have does support composite input. Through the VGA.
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2018-02-26 19:05:06	Nauti	Can overheating a MOSFET result in a breakage connecting gate to source at all times? I have some issues with two of my MOSFETS in a setup of 6 where gate is always connected to source/ground but the others work fine. They're installed identically
2018-02-26 19:05:10	GenteelBen	BCMM: Tesco Value HD Ready TV?
2018-02-26 19:05:16	GenteelBen	1366x768 of awesome TN pixels.
2018-02-26 19:05:19	BCMM	GenteelBen: nope, e-motion
2018-02-26 19:05:25	BCMM	but you're right on the 1366x768
2018-02-26 19:05:59	GenteelBen	e-motion isn't a display tech.
2018-02-26 19:05:59	<--	_BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable192.144-178-173.mc.videotron.ca) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2018-02-26 19:06:05	GenteelBen	Sounds like some kind of motion blur thing?
2018-02-26 19:06:17	BCMM	GenteelBen: no, e-motion is the brand
2018-02-26 19:06:21	BCMM	not tesco own brand
2018-02-26 19:06:24	GenteelBen	Oh.
2018-02-26 19:06:32	BCMM	i mean, it's kinda a brand anyway
2018-02-26 19:06:53	GenteelBen	You sure it isn't a Tesco brand?
2018-02-26 19:07:04	GenteelBen	Like how Alba/Bush (I think) are Argos brands.
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2018-02-26 19:07:36	BCMM	GenteelBen: it's a UMC brand
2018-02-26 19:07:43	BCMM	sold at PC world as well as tesco apparently
2018-02-26 19:08:06	inook	My sense hat loops "up key"(it goes up one row at a time if i press a row in a text editor or in terminalö it switches old commands is there any way to stop that??
2018-02-26 19:08:14	BCMM	actually, how can i force the pi to 1366x768? osmc detects that mode, but libreelec and xbian only see 720p, 1080p and 640x480 or something
2018-02-26 19:08:15	inook	ive killed all python scripts
2018-02-26 19:08:27	GenteelBen	Murderer.
2018-02-26 19:08:54	GenteelBen	BCMM: no need for E-Motion when HiSense TVs are cheap: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hisense-H495500UK-49inch-UHD-Smart/dp/B074848TJH/
2018-02-26 19:09:12	BCMM	GenteelBen: lol it was a *lot* cheaper than that
2018-02-26 19:09:20	GenteelBen	That's a 4K TV though.
2018-02-26 19:09:45	GenteelBen	My next TV will be a 65" LG OLED dealie.
2018-02-26 19:09:55	GenteelBen	HDR, SHDR, UHDR, Mega HDR.
2018-02-26 19:10:09	BCMM	i assume i should try to force native resolution right? this tv takes 1080p input but i'm guessing kodi will do better scaling than the tv does
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2018-02-26 19:10:31	GenteelBen	Shitty TVs tend to have shitty hardware scalers, yes.
2018-02-26 19:10:46	inook	My sense hat loops "up key"(it goes up one row at a time if i press a row in a text editor or in terminalö it switches old commands is there any way to stop that??
2018-02-26 19:10:58	<--	Floflobel (~Flofloel@cosium-152-18.fib.nerim.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2018-02-26 19:11:03	GenteelBen	Remember the old Korean 1440p monitors of the early 2010s? A lot of them were assembled from factory rejects and didn't have hardware scalers.
2018-02-26 19:11:07	BCMM	any idea why different kodi distros would see different video modes? presumably it's all in their config.txts?
2018-02-26 19:11:34	GenteelBen	Here we go: https://www.johnlewis.com/lg-oled65b7v-oled-hdr-4k-ultra-hd-smart-tv-65-with-freeview-play-dolby-atmos-picture-on-metal-design-crescent-stand-silver/p3188410
2018-02-26 19:12:09	BCMM	i wouldn't even know how to get one of those in to my living room :)
2018-02-26 19:12:12	GenteelBen	£2800 for a TV is a lot, but bear in mind TVs of old used to require a sound deck, a DVD player, a satellite/cable box, a set of 4.1/5.1 speakers, etc.
2018-02-26 19:12:19	GenteelBen	You seen LG's wafer-thin TV?
2018-02-26 19:12:26	GenteelBen	It's like a goddamn sheet of wallpaper.
2018-02-26 19:12:39	Habbie	GenteelBen, think you can tone down the adult language 10-20%?
2018-02-26 19:12:45	Habbie	GenteelBen, thanks :)
2018-02-26 19:12:47	BCMM	i actually kind of hate the trend for thin stuff
2018-02-26 19:12:50	GenteelBen	Actualy that's an embelishment - it's 1mm thick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ5WP2BKigc
2018-02-26 19:12:57	GenteelBen	paper is what, 0.5mm?
2018-02-26 19:13:02	BCMM	because they just end up putting all the electronics in a box at the bottom
2018-02-26 19:13:02	GenteelBen	I was off by a factor of 2.
2018-02-26 19:13:07	Habbie	i've seen houses with several millimeters of wallpaper ;)
2018-02-26 19:13:15	GenteelBen	BCMM, that is how they did it.
2018-02-26 19:13:26	GenteelBen	They have a ribbon cable going into a speaker/breakout-box combo unit.
2018-02-26 19:13:27	BCMM	so the peak thickness is increased, and now the VESA mount isn't central
2018-02-26 19:13:37	BCMM	oh, you mean the box isn't attached?
2018-02-26 19:13:39	GenteelBen	BCMM, it ships with its own wall mount.
2018-02-26 19:13:42	BCMM	now that's actually a good idea
2018-02-26 19:13:50	BCMM	i was talking about stuff like the tv you linked
2018-02-26 19:13:55	GenteelBen	The cable is paintable too, but they recommend you route it through the wall.
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2018-02-26 19:14:04	BCMM	puts the vesa mount off center so the center of the tv can be thin for no reason
2018-02-26 19:14:15	GenteelBen	Watch that YT video: https://youtu.be/JJ5WP2BKigc?t=1m22s
2018-02-26 19:14:16	markie^	is the raspberry pi3 low watt?
2018-02-26 19:14:23	GenteelBen	BCMM: but the TV comes with its own mount.
2018-02-26 19:14:29	Habbie	markie^, depends on what you compare it to
2018-02-26 19:14:35	BCMM	markie^: depends on what you count as low-watt i guess
2018-02-26 19:14:39	GenteelBen	It's a thin giant rectangle. It's kinda like putting up a picture frame.
2018-02-26 19:14:46	BCMM	markie^: compared to a desktop pc, sure
2018-02-26 19:14:50	Habbie	markie^, https://www.pidramble.com/wiki/benchmarks/power-consumption
2018-02-26 19:15:03	Habbie	markie^, better: http://raspi.tv/2016/how-much-power-does-raspberry-pi3b-use-how-fast-is-it-compared-to-pi2b
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2018-02-26 19:15:07	GenteelBen	Ok that TV isn't 1mm thick. Looks like about 0.5cm thick?
2018-02-26 19:15:13	<--	John882 (~John882@185.60.147.79) has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2018-02-26 19:15:13	BCMM	markie^: it's not a cryptocoin mining platform though, if that's what you mean
2018-02-26 19:15:18	RoyK	I have pi2 with an r8188eu - it works, somehow, but the packetloss is rather on the bad side. This is the model with an antenna, and the AP is 4m away. I've turned off power savings, but it didn't make any difference. Any ideas?
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2018-02-26 19:16:24	markie^	nah just wanted to use it as a server/shell account for irc/screen. so it would be on all the time
2018-02-26 19:16:42	-->	kingarmadillo (~kingarmad@38.104.254.34) has joined #raspberrypi
2018-02-26 19:16:57	GenteelBen	Oh man
2018-02-26 19:17:00	Mathuin	Never thought of turning off the HDMI.  If you do that, is there an elegant way to turn it back on without shell access?
2018-02-26 19:17:04	Habbie	markie^, that will cost whole bucks a year
2018-02-26 19:17:07	GenteelBen	BCMM: it's a magnet mount. It's so thin it just snaps into place.
2018-02-26 19:17:07	BCMM	markie^: yeah, if you're going to have an always-on machine (which has a real general-purpose OS), the Pi is one of the best choices out there
2018-02-26 19:17:08	Habbie	markie^, like, maybe 3 or 4
2018-02-26 19:17:32	BCMM	getting root
2018-02-26 19:17:40	BCMM	on your router which is on anyway is better maybe
2018-02-26 19:17:50	BCMM	but most routers aren't any good for that
2018-02-26 19:17:58	Habbie	most routers have very little RAM
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2018-02-26 19:18:26	Habbie	markie^, i'm typing this from a pi hanging in a closet in my house
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2018-02-26 19:20:15	markie^	thats what im looking for
2018-02-26 19:20:40	Habbie	just do it
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2018-02-26 19:21:27	pwillard	really... I have one as a DNS machine for my lan... one as a MySql Database servers... one as SSH relay... just do it.
2018-02-26 19:22:14	markie^	Habbie: maybe ill replace it with firestick too, and use it as a entertain system, not sure how it will hold up though
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2018-02-26 19:22:37	markie^	i mean replace firestick with pi
2018-02-26 19:23:21	Mathuin	When I was shopping yesterday, I saw media-center-focused package deals on Amazon, I suspect they hold up reasonably well to playing content, not sure about video games etc.
2018-02-26 19:23:34	Habbie	markie^, depends on your media needs - i'm sticking with the fire stick :)
2018-02-26 19:23:50	markie^	kodi at the very most?
2018-02-26 19:24:07	Habbie	i hear that works fine
2018-02-26 19:24:18	Habbie	(on the pi)
2018-02-26 19:24:37	markie^	you should install it and report back with your findings?
2018-02-26 19:25:16	Habbie	why?
2018-02-26 19:25:18	Habbie	i have no interest in it
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2018-02-26 19:26:09	markie^	i think there is another one i am yet to try, like terrarium tv or something
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2018-02-26 19:28:55	BCMM	markie^: i just got a pi 3 and kodi works really really well on it
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2018-02-26 19:29:07	markie^	what about screen casting the pi to tv?
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2018-02-26 19:29:26	BCMM	yesterday i only had a 1st gen, 256MB ram pi. do not try to run kodi with 256MB of ram.
2018-02-26 19:29:43	pwillard	<snicker>
2018-02-26 19:29:53	BCMM	it works, but it completely sucks
2018-02-26 19:29:56	Habbie	markie^, casting via what?
2018-02-26 19:30:47	markie^	my tv has smart features allows for screen casting, my phone does it, will pi?
2018-02-26 19:30:57	Habbie	do you know what protocol?
2018-02-26 19:31:03	BCMM	markie^: your tv do DLNA/uPnP AV?
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2018-02-26 19:33:21	BCMM	markie^: running minidlna on a headless pi and using something like droidpnp on a phone to choose media to play on a DLNA TV can work very nicely
2018-02-26 19:33:34	BCMM	BUT you'll have to look in to you're TV's codec support
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2018-02-26 19:33:54	BCMM	some smart TVs are stupidly picky to the point they're not much use as streaming targets
2018-02-26 19:34:08	BCMM	(without mucking around with on-the-fly transcoding and all that)
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2018-02-26 19:34:39	BCMM	s/you're/your/
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2018-02-26 19:35:56	markie^	yup
2018-02-26 19:36:06	markie^	what about direct connection?
2018-02-26 19:36:22	markie^	dont think it as a vga support
2018-02-26 19:36:50	Habbie	your tv does not have hdmi?
2018-02-26 19:36:53	BCMM	markie^: do you *really* have a smart TV with a VGA port, but no HDMI input?
2018-02-26 19:37:36	BCMM	i don't think i've seen a TV, as opposed to monitor, with VGA and no HDMI
2018-02-26 19:37:37	markie^	yeah but it has like 1, maybe i need a splitter or something
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2018-02-26 19:37:50	BCMM	(because before the HDMI era you just had analogue V-out
2018-02-26 19:38:06	BCMM	TV-out on your graphics card if you wanted to connect a computer to a TV)
2018-02-26 19:38:14	Habbie	markie^, hdmi to vga adapters that work with the pi can be had cheap btw
2018-02-26 19:38:19	BCMM	(sorry, pressed enter instead of backspace)
2018-02-26 19:38:33	BCMM	markie^: does it have any other ports that are kinda like hdmi?
2018-02-26 19:38:53	BCMM	markie^: e.g. hdmi -> displayport can be done with a dumb adapter for no loss of quality (unlike hdmi -> vga)
2018-02-26 19:39:02	markie^	nah just hdmi, no scarts or s videos
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2018-02-26 19:39:04	Habbie	dvi is more likely
2018-02-26 19:39:06	Habbie	but not very likely
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2018-02-26 19:39:54	BCMM	scart and s-video are analogue connectors
2018-02-26 19:40:00	markie^	i suppose ill just connect it directly with hdmi
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2018-02-26 19:40:05	Habbie	markie^, that is best
2018-02-26 19:40:14	BCMM	markie^: there's also composite out
2018-02-26 19:40:30	BCMM	markie^: (that's the yellow RCA connector on your tv)
2018-02-26 19:40:35	BCMM	obviously that's SD only
2018-02-26 19:40:44	markie^	if i remote login to pi will i be able to see what im doing on the tv as well as laptop?
2018-02-26 19:41:01	Habbie	markie^, VNC, maybe. SSH, generally no unless you explicitly make it so
2018-02-26 19:41:21	BCMM	markie^: if you're talking about logging in graphically, VNC can be used for "mirroring
2018-02-26 19:41:26	markie^	i figured it would be with vnc
2018-02-26 19:41:27	BCMM	(did it again! sorry)
2018-02-26 19:41:42	BCMM	mirroring your "real" desktop, or for having a fully virtual desktop only shown remotely
2018-02-26 19:41:44	BCMM	your choice
2018-02-26 19:42:28	markie^	could just add wireless keyboard/mouse to pi but that semems like overkill
2018-02-26 19:42:38	BCMM	complication, though: kodi generally runs without X on the pi, so i don't know if there's a VNC solution that can actually show your kodi session remotely
2018-02-26 19:42:52	Habbie	markie^, actually that is exactly what i would do if i had a pi on my tv
2018-02-26 19:43:15	BCMM	(however, that's a rather niche use case anyway, as vnc is not responsive enough for watching video, and there are better way to remote control kodi)
2018-02-26 19:43:28	BCMM	markie^: if you just want an interface for choosing videos to watch, see if your TV does HDMI CEC
2018-02-26 19:43:43	BCMM	markie^: i control my raspberry pi with my TV remote
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2018-02-26 19:44:08	markie^	yeah just wanted to control the pi through laptop not really remote view odi
2018-02-26 19:44:13	markie^	kodi
2018-02-26 19:44:34	Habbie	maybe kodi has a webinterface?
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2018-02-26 19:46:20	markie^	what i run android app emulation on pi then screen mirror to tv through a lg smartshare?
2018-02-26 19:46:31	Habbie	then everything will be dog slow
2018-02-26 19:46:37	markie^	:(
2018-02-26 19:46:40	Habbie	what problem are you trying to solve?
2018-02-26 19:46:52	markie^	just experimenting :)
2018-02-26 19:47:04	Habbie	ok :)
2018-02-26 19:47:06	Habbie	in that case
2018-02-26 19:47:09	BCMM	markie^: does your TV to chromecast?
2018-02-26 19:47:11	Habbie	i strongly suggest actually experimenting!
2018-02-26 19:47:29	BCMM	i mean you can totally just put android on the pi and cast stuff to your tv, but unless you don't own a smartphone i don't see the point
2018-02-26 19:47:54	BCMM	markie^: kodi has a lot of good ways to control it over the network
2018-02-26 19:48:22	BCMM	web interface, official android app, any upnp av control point application
2018-02-26 19:48:33	BCMM	vnc is a kludgy way of doing it
2018-02-26 19:48:43	markie^	what about putting mint on pi?
2018-02-26 19:48:50	Habbie	i remember an xbmc remote that could pop SMS on the tv screen and pause video when somebody called
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2018-02-26 19:49:33	Habbie	markie^, i don't think mint was ported to pi but cinnamon is in archlinux, i read
2018-02-26 19:49:56	markie^	probably just stick to the default os
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2018-02-26 19:53:01	markie^	im assuming old arcade game emualtion will run fine and keybinding to a controller is easy?
2018-02-26 19:53:32	BCMM	markie^: there are actually distros entirely dedicated to that
2018-02-26 19:53:59	markie^	oo never knew
2018-02-26 19:54:28	GenteelBen	markie^ mark^
2018-02-26 19:55:22	<--	Martian (~martian@84.40.91.35) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2018-02-26 19:55:51	markie^	wahlberg reference?
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2018-02-26 20:00:33	markie^	anobody made a cluster?
2018-02-26 20:00:40	Habbie	many people have
2018-02-26 20:00:47	<--	_BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable192.144-178-173.mc.videotron.ca) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2018-02-26 20:01:19	markie^	for what purpose?
2018-02-26 20:01:43	Habbie	experimenting
2018-02-26 20:02:13	markie^	;)
2018-02-26 20:02:51	BCMM	oh huh, xbian actually does have a vnc viewer that works on kodi
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2018-02-26 20:03:06	BCMM	^server not viewer
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2018-02-26 20:05:38	markie^	im thinking of going linux full time
2018-02-26 20:05:54	markie^	i guess ill just have to let go of wow
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2018-02-26 20:24:05	BCMM	i mean letting go of wow is just good advice anyway, but i hear it runs very well on Wine
2018-02-26 20:24:54	Tenkawa	hehehe
2018-02-26 20:25:27	Habbie	10 years ago it ran better on wine than on windows, on my wife's pc
2018-02-26 20:25:54	Tenkawa	I
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2018-02-26 20:26:17	Tenkawa	er I'm thinking about trying one of my racing simulators out on my pi 3
2018-02-26 20:26:32	Tenkawa	I know its server component works in wine
2018-02-26 20:26:36	BCMM	Tenkawa: what sort of racing simulator? i mean, originally written for what platform?
2018-02-26 20:26:38	Tenkawa	tested it the other night
2018-02-26 20:26:45	Tenkawa	live for speed
2018-02-26 20:26:47	Tenkawa	windows
2018-02-26 20:27:01	Tenkawa	lfs.neet
2018-02-26 20:27:06	Tenkawa	er lfs.net
2018-02-26 20:27:16	BCMM	Tenkawa: remember, wine on a desktop PC is just an API reimplementation
2018-02-26 20:27:18	Tenkawa	its very good
2018-02-26 20:27:26	Tenkawa	BCMM: I know
2018-02-26 20:27:31	BCMM	but wine on a raspberry pi is that + machine emulation
2018-02-26 20:27:39	BCMM	i.e. performance is gonna suck
2018-02-26 20:27:52	Tenkawa	hahaa Habbie, he/she obviously has never heard of me eh?
2018-02-26 20:27:57	BCMM	but there's applications that don't call for performance...
2018-02-26 20:27:58	Habbie	Tenkawa, hmm?
2018-02-26 20:28:47	Tenkawa	Habbie: you do remember me right?
2018-02-26 20:28:50	Habbie	i do
2018-02-26 20:28:53	Habbie	i bought your pi3 etc
2018-02-26 20:28:58	Tenkawa	I know I've been away a while
2018-02-26 20:29:14	Habbie	no wait i have a top 2 of people i might be confusing
2018-02-26 20:29:17	Tenkawa	huh?
2018-02-26 20:29:20	Tenkawa	no
2018-02-26 20:29:21	Habbie	i know you from #sqlite
2018-02-26 20:29:25	Tenkawa	yse
2018-02-26 20:29:51	Habbie	so who hasn't heard of you, obviously?
2018-02-26 20:30:02	Tenkawa	BCMM: I write lowel multi architecture porting stuff
2018-02-26 20:30:04	Tenkawa	heehee
2018-02-26 20:30:07	Habbie	ah
2018-02-26 20:30:10	Habbie	that i did not recall
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2018-02-26 20:30:46	Tenkawa	i know about all the performance hits/etc etc between platforms and such
2018-02-26 20:31:12	Tenkawa	been doing that stuff since the svr4 days
2018-02-26 20:31:24	Tenkawa	microchannel woohoo
2018-02-26 20:31:27	<--	zzz (~zzz@2001:8a0:ca15:6e01:7865:fe6:e97a:dac0) has quit (Quit: zzz)
2018-02-26 20:31:48	Tenkawa	I mostly do all this for fun
2018-02-26 20:31:51	<--	kingarmadillo (~kingarmad@38.104.254.34) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2018-02-26 20:31:54	Tenkawa	i am that odd
2018-02-26 20:32:38	Tenkawa	Habbie: I really should catch back up on sqlite and see if I can contribute anything new
2018-02-26 20:32:54	Tenkawa	that was some fun times
2018-02-26 20:32:58	BCMM	Tenkawa: i'm sorry, i don't know who you are. but if i've stated the obvious, consider it to have been for the benefit of any lurkers reading the conversation, as opposed to any assumptions about your own skills.
2018-02-26 20:32:58	Habbie	:)
2018-02-26 20:33:05	Habbie	BCMM, +1
2018-02-26 20:34:23	Tenkawa	understandable.. i also know the program's calls and understand what to watch for otherwise I wouldnt try it.
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2018-02-26 20:34:54	Tenkawa	btw very fun if you want a really "interesting" simulator
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2018-02-26 20:35:47	Tenkawa	be prepared for it to feel a completely different experience driving if you try it
2018-02-26 20:35:57	Tenkawa	it is definitely not arcadish
2018-02-26 20:36:21	Tenkawa	arcadish/arcadeish
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2018-02-26 20:56:04	inook	how do i make the  loop capture image work again? before i added stamping function the script was able to take several pictures(by hitting sense hat joystick now its stops after first ) https://ideone.com/yveZ4T
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2018-02-26 21:14:22	Tenkawa	so with newer kernels I'm trying to determine if I'd equiv/better/worse perf with good usb 3 media on my pi 3
2018-02-26 21:14:38	Habbie	the pi3 doesn't have usb3, right?
2018-02-26 21:14:45	Tenkawa	not bus no
2018-02-26 21:14:50	Habbie	ack
2018-02-26 21:14:52	Tenkawa	only 2
2018-02-26 21:14:56	Habbie	just checking
2018-02-26 21:15:27	Tenkawa	I wish
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2018-02-26 21:17:22	Habbie	:)
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2018-02-26 22:04:57	puff	Good afternoon, I have motioneye working and I'm able to view the stream from my browser (both chrome and firefox) but I'm trying to figure out how to watch it with VLC.  So far not having any luck. I'm trying Media/Open Network Stream.
2018-02-26 22:05:11	puff	Also, is there a simpler way to stream video than motion/motioneye?
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2018-02-26 22:16:24	puff	Ah, figured it out.  In the menu, scroll down to video streaming, at the bottom of that section click on Useful URLs: Streaming URL, copy that, open with Media/Open Network Stream.
2018-02-26 22:16:45	argoneus	hello
2018-02-26 22:16:53	Tenkawa	greetings
2018-02-26 22:17:00	argoneus	I'm wondering, is it even possible to use a sensor like DHT11 with raspbian?
2018-02-26 22:17:07	argoneus	apparently the signal transmission uses microseconds timings
2018-02-26 22:17:16	argoneus	and apparently that doesn't really work?
2018-02-26 22:17:27	argoneus	because Linux
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2018-02-26 22:18:29	puff	Good afternoon.
2018-02-26 22:19:01	Habbie	argoneus, from a quick google it does sound like timing is a problem, but it may not be -impossible-
2018-02-26 22:19:04	puff	argoneus: I have no idea what DHT11 is, but I do know that people often use an arduino for accessing devices that have complicated timing requirements, for that exact reason.
2018-02-26 22:19:05	Tenkawa	thats one area I cannot help in....
2018-02-26 22:19:24	Habbie	argoneus, also, not from the google but from experience, something like SPI may be useful for getting a read without timing trouble
2018-02-26 22:19:27	Habbie	puff, indeed
2018-02-26 22:19:43	argoneus	SPI?
2018-02-26 22:20:16	puff	The video stream from my pi zero w with pi camera board v2 and motion/motioneye seems really slow/laggy, both when viewed in my browser and in VLC.  Is this just a limitation of the camera board or the rpi zero w, or is there a fix?
2018-02-26 22:20:22	Habbie	argoneus, my notes are here https://github.com/Habbie/hardware-hacks/tree/master/binary-scope
2018-02-26 22:20:23	gordonDrogon	argoneus, I did mention a few days back that there was a simple command-line utility to read them so yes, it's possible.
2018-02-26 22:20:27	Habbie	argoneus, but i never tried dht11 with pi
2018-02-26 22:20:46	gordonDrogon	and you may have been present when someone else was using the same sensor (well a variant)
2018-02-26 22:21:10	argoneus	well thing is the sensor needs timing with a precision of 10 microseconds
2018-02-26 22:21:16	gordonDrogon	yes, and?
2018-02-26 22:21:22	argoneus	won't raspbian get in the way?
2018-02-26 22:21:24	gordonDrogon	actually it's 6µS, but ...
2018-02-26 22:21:38	argoneus	actually looking at the doc
2018-02-26 22:21:39	gordonDrogon	I am telling you I can do it from the command-line.
2018-02-26 22:21:44	argoneus	it seems it just tries to get a reading until it gets a good one
2018-02-26 22:21:49	argoneus	so it is a problem but it also isn't
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2018-02-26 22:22:07	Habbie	that roughly maps to what i said - 'a problem but not impossible'
2018-02-26 22:22:11	Habbie	and indeed it's easy to retry a few times
2018-02-26 22:22:13	gordonDrogon	wel lyou could always look at my source code for it.
2018-02-26 22:23:10	gordonDrogon	anyway I'm off to bed.
2018-02-26 22:24:44	Habbie	sleep well!
2018-02-26 22:25:17	puff	Hm, it's slow even when I crank the resolution down to minimum.
2018-02-26 22:26:05	markie^	Habbie: do you have a media server on your pi?
2018-02-26 22:26:12	Habbie	markie^, no
2018-02-26 22:26:37	markie^	Habbie: why not?
2018-02-26 22:26:54	Habbie	markie^, pardon?
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2018-02-26 22:27:12	markie^	Habbie: like why not?
2018-02-26 22:27:36	markie^	Habbie: you just use your firestick?
2018-02-26 22:27:42	Habbie	can you stop asking me weird questions/requesting me to do work for you?
2018-02-26 22:27:55	argoneus	oh, I see
2018-02-26 22:28:05	argoneus	so you read the pin, and check the checksum at the end
2018-02-26 22:28:11	argoneus	and if it doesn't match, throw it away and read again
2018-02-26 22:28:11	markie^	Habbie: work? what?
2018-02-26 22:28:13	Habbie	oh it has a checksum
2018-02-26 22:28:14	Habbie	that helps a lot
2018-02-26 22:28:41	argoneus	I always wondered how computers actually work inside, what with everything just being on/off
2018-02-26 22:28:51	Habbie	dumb luck, argoneus ;)
2018-02-26 22:29:00	argoneus	now I think I'm seeing it in practice, just 1/0 signals at a specific timing
2018-02-26 22:29:03	argoneus	interpreted as messages
2018-02-26 22:29:20	Habbie	a practice, not the practice, but yes
2018-02-26 22:29:42	Habbie	sometimes there's an actual clock present from one side, helping the interpretation
2018-02-26 22:30:55	markie^	Habbie: so why dont you use a media server on your pi, everybody likes entertainment?
2018-02-26 22:31:14	Habbie	markie^, please stop this line of questioning
2018-02-26 22:31:33	markie^	its a pi related question!
2018-02-26 22:31:41	 *	Tenkawa is really perplexed
2018-02-26 22:32:00	markie^	Habbie: do you know where you are?
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2018-02-26 22:33:28	puff	argoneus: Electricity isn't a discrete thing like we think it is, it's a wave (well, turning it off and on again acts like a wave), so you need various standards for how you measure that wave and translate that to off and on.
2018-02-26 22:33:41	 *	ShorTie wonders what a 'media server' is
2018-02-26 22:33:47	puff	argoneus: I am slowly learning about electronics.
2018-02-26 22:33:56	Tenkawa	ShorTie: isnt everything heehee
2018-02-26 22:34:06	argoneus	ah
2018-02-26 22:34:23	Tenkawa	the definition has definitely changed since I was younger
2018-02-26 22:34:27	puff	ShorTie: Two variations, either a gadget that plugs into your TV's video in and outputs video to it, or a server that such a gadget connects to, to stream video from it.
2018-02-26 22:35:08	markie^	i was referring to specific software variety
2018-02-26 22:35:29	markie^	but it seems to be touchy subject for habbie
2018-02-26 22:35:37	markie^	beyond me why?
2018-02-26 22:35:42	Tenkawa	puff: what about where a source can push media to you.. ie a radio?
2018-02-26 22:35:49	argoneus	one thing I don't understand - the spec says that to send the start signal, the host (in this case the raspi) "pulls the data-bus low", but when I look at the source code, it sets the GPIO pin to HIGH
2018-02-26 22:35:55	argoneus	shouldn't it be the other way around? to LOW?
2018-02-26 22:36:06	Tenkawa	you know.. media server for us old guys
2018-02-26 22:36:09	Habbie	argoneus, url to that spec? url for your dht board?
2018-02-26 22:36:32	argoneus	https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/datasheets/Digital+humidity+and+temperature+sensor+AM2302.pdf page 4
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2018-02-26 22:37:08	puff	Generally the term is used in the context of ethernet/local internet.
2018-02-26 22:37:12	Habbie	argoneus, and the source code?
2018-02-26 22:37:26	argoneus	https://github.com/szazo/DHT11_Python/blob/master/dht11.py#L34
2018-02-26 22:38:15	Habbie	argoneus, line 37 then pulls to low to trigger the reading
2018-02-26 22:38:33	argoneus	but it sets the pin to HIGH...?
2018-02-26 22:38:54	Habbie	argoneus, sorry, line 40
2018-02-26 22:39:06	Habbie	argoneus, low as a trigger only works when coming from hihgh
2018-02-26 22:39:07	Habbie	high
2018-02-26 22:39:16	argoneus	ohhh
2018-02-26 22:39:20	Habbie	does that help?
2018-02-26 22:39:22	argoneus	so L37 is "Data-bus's free status is high voltage level"?
2018-02-26 22:39:37	Habbie	so i'm only 70% with this, but yes
2018-02-26 22:39:47	argoneus	makes sense
2018-02-26 22:39:51	argoneus	to pull it low I first need to make sure it's high
2018-02-26 22:40:00	argoneus	I'm an id--- inexperienced
2018-02-26 22:40:05	Habbie	that's entirely okay
2018-02-26 22:40:07	Habbie	many of us have been ther
2018-02-26 22:40:08	Habbie	e
2018-02-26 22:40:21	argoneus	the timings in that script also seem way off
2018-02-26 22:40:33	argoneus	pretty sure 0.05 seconds isn't 20-40 microseconds
2018-02-26 22:40:38	Habbie	it's 50
2018-02-26 22:40:55	Mathuin	50 _milli_seconds
2018-02-26 22:41:02	Habbie	oh yes
2018-02-26 22:41:03	Habbie	thanks
2018-02-26 22:41:06	Mathuin	50000 microseconds. :-)
2018-02-26 22:41:10	Mathuin	I do the same thing.
2018-02-26 22:41:29	argoneus	I'm surprised that script works if it does at all
2018-02-26 22:41:36	argoneus	considering the resolution seems to be wrong
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2018-02-26 22:41:57	Habbie	oh the pdf does say 20-40us
2018-02-26 22:42:15	Tenkawa	cheers all.. bbl
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2018-02-26 22:42:35	puff	Hm, what's the advisability of using mjpeg-streamer instead of motioneye, if I don't need motion detection?
2018-02-26 22:42:44	Habbie	argoneus, that script is terrible
2018-02-26 22:42:57	Habbie	argoneus, it needs changing if you get a faster CPU, etc.
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2018-02-26 22:43:07	puff	Or using mjpeg-streamer on the pi and doing the motion detect on a the viewing machine, which usually has more hardware?
2018-02-26 22:43:17	argoneus	https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_Python_DHT ah this seems to be the "official" one
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2018-02-26 22:45:36	argoneus	ah
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2018-02-26 22:45:45	argoneus	it uses Cython and tries to bamboozle the OS scheduler
2018-02-26 22:46:02	argoneus	that makes sense I guess, you need very low level stuff for this
2018-02-26 22:47:35	argoneus	jesus christ
2018-02-26 22:47:45	argoneus	it uses empty for loops to "sleep"
2018-02-26 22:47:49	Habbie	language please
2018-02-26 22:48:06	argoneus	language?
2018-02-26 22:48:10	markie^	haha
2018-02-26 22:48:15	Habbie	argoneus, please mind your words
2018-02-26 22:48:22	argoneus	what did I say
2018-02-26 22:48:27	Habbie	j. c.
2018-02-26 22:48:57	<--	Deusdeorum (~Deusdeoru@unaffiliated/deusdeorum) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2018-02-26 22:49:02	argoneus	?? is that a slur
2018-02-26 22:49:22	<--	AaronMT (~textual@2607:fea8:3de0:cb7:6440:bb0c:b6bd:3002) has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2018-02-26 22:49:31	markie^	argoneus: everything is now
2018-02-26 22:49:40	Habbie	markie^, do you want to just leave?
2018-02-26 22:49:44	--	Topic for #raspberrypi is "Unofficial RaspberryPi IRC channel but "Blessed" by the Foundation as the ONE channel. | Logs: http://srv.datagutt1.com | Rules: https://goo.gl/h5qPhz"
2018-02-26 22:49:44	--	Topic set by gordonDrogon (~gordon@2001:4d48:ad51:8901::2) on Sat, 24 Dec 2016 15:04:53
2018-02-26 22:49:47	markie^	Habbie: do you?
2018-02-26 22:49:50	Habbie	no
2018-02-26 22:49:59	markie^	Habbie: whats your problem then?
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2018-02-26 22:50:32	Habbie	markie^, your non-productive attitude here
2018-02-26 22:50:45	markie^	Habbie: more specifically, what athority do you have?
2018-02-26 22:51:02	Habbie	i don't see how i would need authority to ask for some respect
2018-02-26 22:51:22	markie^	perhaps you should try earning it
2018-02-26 22:51:32	--	Mode #raspberrypi [+o Habbie] by ChanServ
2018-02-26 22:51:35	<--	jerryq (~jerryq@32.97.110.56) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2018-02-26 22:51:36	--	Mode #raspberrypi [+b *!*@88-105-48-130.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] by Habbie
2018-02-26 22:51:38	<--	Habbie has kicked markie^ (bye)
2018-02-26 22:51:40	--	Mode #raspberrypi [-o Habbie] by Habbie
2018-02-26 22:51:44	Mathuin	_that's_ authority
2018-02-26 22:51:48	Habbie	it is
2018-02-26 22:51:53	Habbie	but i don't like showing it off
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2018-02-26 22:52:01	Habbie	it should not be the argument
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2018-02-26 22:53:27	--	#raspberrypi: You're not a channel operator
2018-02-26 22:53:32	--	Mode #raspberrypi [+o Habbie] by ChanServ
2018-02-26 22:53:34	--	Mode #raspberrypi [-b *!*@88-105-48-130.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] by Habbie
2018-02-26 22:53:36	--	Mode #raspberrypi [-o Habbie] by Habbie
2018-02-26 22:53:46	--	H4ndy is now known as h4ndy
2018-02-26 22:54:10		[Habbie away: bbl]
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2018-02-26 22:54:56	argoneus	I'm still somewhat curious why what I said is wrong
2018-02-26 22:55:05	argoneus	this is legitimately the first time someone took offense to it
2018-02-26 22:55:15	choscura	eh?
2018-02-26 22:55:41	argoneus	apparently saying "jesus christ" is bad language even though I don't see anything like that in the rules
2018-02-26 22:55:50	choscura	Somebody took a fence that Jew Zeus was mentioned?
2018-02-26 22:56:19	Habbie	the channel guidelines mention 'swearing' quite clearly
2018-02-26 22:56:33	choscura	that's not properly swearing
2018-02-26 22:56:39	Habbie	it is
2018-02-26 22:56:55	choscura	only if you're christian, and it's not up to everybody else to conform to those specific taboos
2018-02-26 22:57:14	choscura	'profanity' includes specific words in legal contexts. "Jesus" isn't one of them.
2018-02-26 22:57:52	argoneus	I'd guess it's a cultural difference
2018-02-26 22:57:54	<--	HtheB (~HtheB@Maemo/community/ex-council/HtheB) has quit
2018-02-26 22:57:56	argoneus	in my country nobody really bats an eye at it
2018-02-26 22:58:05		[Habbie away: zzz]
2018-02-26 22:58:42	Robdgreat	I guess that's why a verbal warning was issued first rather than insta-k/b
2018-02-26 22:58:50	choscura	I mean, if it's up to everybody to conform to every specific taboo like this that a specific religion, creed, cult, dogma, or other group has, you can literally make up any word you want to be offended by. That's not reasonable. There are offensive words that everyone's agreed upon, and in no country do those offensive words include the names of deities, not even the specific person of Jesus himself.
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2018-02-26 22:59:20	Robdgreat	like, if someone dropped an f-bomb, that's probably undisputable
2018-02-26 22:59:44	choscura	I did that before I knew the rules. This, however, even knowing the rules, should be firmly inside the line.
2018-02-26 23:00:20	Robdgreat	unfortunately, it's not your call
2018-02-26 23:00:26	Robdgreat	nor mine
2018-02-26 23:00:33	Robdgreat	as I'd tend to agree with you
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2018-02-26 23:01:00	choscura	I'm currently idling in #raspberrypi_NSFW because of this, lol
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2018-02-26 23:41:21	puff	Interesting: https://chriscarey.com/blog/2017/04/30/achieving-high-frame-rate-with-a-raspberry-pi-camera-system/comment-page-1/
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2018-02-26 23:45:54	saimazoon	hello everyone
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2018-02-26 23:46:11	saimazoon	i'm trying to load raspbian from u-boot using the kernel7.img and matching dtb file
2018-02-26 23:46:16	saimazoon	over tftp
2018-02-26 23:46:51	saimazoon	network load of the kernel works fine but then it gets stuck in the 'starting kernel' message, which makes me thing the problem is either raspbian kernel is linked somewhere else other than where i'm loading it into
2018-02-26 23:47:02	saimazoon	or it expects the dtb file somewhere else, although I'd say the former seems more likely
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2018-02-27 00:12:39	Travis	Hello.
2018-02-27 00:12:52	Travis	Thank you to whomever was helping me with a screen issue a couple of days ago.
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2018-02-27 00:35:45	RoyK	any idea when rpi4 will be around? I'd like to see something like PoE and such
2018-02-27 00:37:45	@IT_Sean	I would recommend keeping an eye on the website for any new RoyK.
2018-02-27 00:37:58	@IT_Sean	People here either don't know, or can't say.
2018-02-27 00:39:20	taza	Well, that tells a whole lot in itself.
2018-02-27 00:39:36	taza	If there were no concrete plans underway, people would just say that.
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2018-02-27 00:40:44	RoyK	gigabit ethernet - not needed - the cpu isn't fast enough
2018-02-27 00:41:10	taza	But if the manufacturing is spun up, negotiations with partners are done and there's no reason not to have announced.
2018-02-27 00:41:24	RoyK	but PoE - well - that would make it useful in some settings
2018-02-27 00:42:52	taza	Sooo it's still on the design table, probably.
2018-02-27 00:43:07	taza	Personally I just want more tolerance to voltage ranges.
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2018-02-27 00:44:07	taza	I don't think there's been a Pi yet without power problems. Maybe the ZW?
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2018-02-27 00:46:30	Mathuin	What are the usual power problems?
2018-02-27 00:46:58	taza	Most chargers can't quite do the power levels the Pi requires, mostly. You get the bolt.
2018-02-27 00:47:52	taza	Which results in chargers more than capable of running the Pi2/3 to have constant warning icons because they don't produce the exact voltage
2018-02-27 00:48:27	Mathuin	Ah.  I want to connect mine to 13.8VDC, now I'm wondering if there's some DC-DC adapter already built.
2018-02-27 00:48:44	Travis	Doesn't a Pi require 2-something amps?
2018-02-27 00:48:51	shauno	I'd dispute the 'more than capable' there.  most chargers are junk
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2018-02-27 00:49:13	Travis	I've ran a Pi B (the old Radio Shack Make kits) off of a cell phone charger.
2018-02-27 00:49:32	taza	shauno Uh, how are you disputing it?
2018-02-27 00:49:57	chithead	usb spec allows voltage between 4.75..5.25 V iirc. if your charger drops below that, the pi will throttle
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2018-02-27 00:50:41	shauno	I don't call a 5v psu "more than capable" if it can't produce 5v
2018-02-27 00:51:24	taza	I've got plenty of chargers that produce 2.1 to 2.4 a stable, but not within the voltage range of the Pi
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2018-02-27 00:56:51	RoyK	shauno: most 5V PSUs can produce 5V, but some  can't give you enough current, so the voltage drops when you draw current from them
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2018-02-27 01:01:00	Mathuin	Oooh.  Car charger for cell phone, I think that'll work.
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2018-02-27 01:01:49	taza	The real problem is power dips from changed load, which is totally fine for a tablet charger and not-so-fine for a power supply
2018-02-27 01:03:08	shauno	right. it's the difference between a charger and a power supply
2018-02-27 01:03:25	shauno	a charger's generally happy if the voltage is higher than the battery's, after that it just craves amps
2018-02-27 01:03:57	taza	Chargers are way easier - and faster - to grab than 5V power supplies
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2018-02-27 01:04:32	taza	And it's not like we don't have the technology to make something like the RPi power itself off a charger
2018-02-27 01:04:54	taza	Of course, there's a component cost.
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2018-02-27 01:10:14	genr8_	they expect you to be capable of buying the proper supply for the product
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2018-02-27 01:11:40	taza	That really eats into the versatility of the projects you can do.
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2018-02-27 01:12:04	genr8_	no,why?
2018-02-27 01:12:32	taza	I didn't ask a question, I stated a fact.
2018-02-27 01:12:44	genr8_	its not a fact tho and you present it as such
2018-02-27 01:13:10	taza	Whether you agree or not does not change its status as a fact.
2018-02-27 01:13:24	taza	I can explain the why, too, but that'll take me a moment.
2018-02-27 01:14:28	taza	The kind of stable output the Pi3 needs is kinda hard to find in many off-the-shelf cellphone products - importantly, power banks. In addition, it makes it way harder to source a replacement source of power for educational use.
2018-02-27 01:15:03	genr8_	except the world is your oyster and suitable products are 1 click and same day shipping away.
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2018-02-27 01:15:44	taza	What about the people who cannot readily pay for items online? What about locations that don't have same day shipping?
2018-02-27 01:16:29	genr8_	guess you shoulda bought 2 $3 power supplies instead of 1
2018-02-27 01:16:52	taza	The power supplies sufficient for RPi3aren't $3 in vast chunks of the world.
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2018-02-27 01:17:47	shauno	I can't think of many places that'll sell you a pi3 but not a power supply for it.
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2018-02-27 01:17:59	taza	I can think of three offhand.
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2018-02-27 01:18:21	taza	As in, brick-and-mortar.
2018-02-27 01:18:32	genr8_	idk what to tell you. plenty of shit has proprietary power supplies. when was the last time you didnt buy a monitor because it had an external power brick instead of just an internal IEC connector
2018-02-27 01:18:46	genr8_	its better that its external
2018-02-27 01:18:51	genr8_	cause if the PSU dies its only $3 not $35
2018-02-27 01:18:54	shauno	and the kinda places that'd find $3 for a supply are gonna love it when you up the bom with dc-dc stages
2018-02-27 01:19:25	taza	genr8_ I'm not saying the power supply should be internal.
2018-02-27 01:19:30	shauno	hm, I accidentally a few words there.  "that'd find $3 a problem"
2018-02-27 01:19:38	genr8_	i might agree with you if they made more variants
2018-02-27 01:19:50	taza	Where do you get power supplies that reliably fuel the RPi for $3?
2018-02-27 01:19:53	genr8_	Dont mess up my pi with your bad ideas tho.
2018-02-27 01:20:11	taza	You don't have the technical competence to know what my ideas are.
2018-02-27 01:20:12	genr8_	you can try and convince them to add an internal DC/DC component to handle shitty cellphone chargers
2018-02-27 01:20:27	taza	You're also arguing in bad faith
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2018-02-27 01:21:54	taza	For context, the only place in town selling a RPi power supply right now charges $22
2018-02-27 01:21:55	genr8_	ebay: $2.69 https://puu.sh/zwsIG/6f7acc66ea.png
2018-02-27 01:22:09	genr8_	you could opt to get a better one
2018-02-27 01:22:29	taza	Yes, something putting out 5v/3a over USB which is sure to be safe.
2018-02-27 01:22:34	genr8_	i'd rather get multiple shit ones. and leave the pi alone.
2018-02-27 01:22:40	taza	Naaah.
2018-02-27 01:22:57	genr8_	i dont think you know how electronics work
2018-02-27 01:23:13	taza	... that's ironic.
2018-02-27 01:23:28	taza	What parts would you use to solve a temporary voltage dip in a power supply?
2018-02-27 01:23:33	genr8_	show me this $22 magical power supply
2018-02-27 01:23:36	taza	This is actually 101.
2018-02-27 01:23:56	taza	This is literally electronics 101, so out with the answer.
2018-02-27 01:24:01	genr8_	capacitor
2018-02-27 01:24:05	genr8_	what do you want from me
2018-02-27 01:24:20	genr8_	the onus is on you to produce any evidence to your claim
2018-02-27 01:24:27	taza	No it's not.
2018-02-27 01:24:27	genr8_	im for the status quo. i can shut up now.
2018-02-27 01:25:05	taza	You seem to opt the rules of a formal debate when it suits you and entirely argue in bad faith when it doesn't
2018-02-27 01:25:25	taza	This is blatantly obvious and frankly I'm wasting my time.
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2018-02-27 01:29:08	ali1234	yeah that ebay trash is exactly the kind of thing you DONT want
2018-02-27 01:29:46	ali1234	there is a reason why the official power supply costs £8
2018-02-27 01:29:55	ali1234	because it's actually decent
2018-02-27 01:30:06	choscura	has anyone here powered their pi of a hub the pi controls?
2018-02-27 01:30:13	choscura	this has been a fun hack that I've found
2018-02-27 01:30:53	choscura	if you plug in the pi to a 2.5+amp USB hub, that will keep it powered and running even if you unplug it
2018-02-27 01:30:53	ali1234	you could also try one of these https://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/new-products/products/wide-input-shim
2018-02-27 01:31:15	choscura	I think it even starts it too
2018-02-27 01:31:25	choscura	not sure, but I know for sure it keeps it running
2018-02-27 01:32:07	genr8_	it might not start it
2018-02-27 01:32:42	ali1234	last time i looked in to it the pi 3 can be powered through its downstream USB ports but it cannot be powered up from them
2018-02-27 01:32:52	choscura	it's handy, though. It can double the amperage available if you don't have the original 2.5 amp charger, and make up the difference.
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2018-02-27 01:33:47	genr8_	tru
2018-02-27 01:34:16	taza	ali1234 The official supply costs £7+shipping for me, or 17e from a brick & mortar
2018-02-27 01:34:22	taza	* 18e
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2018-02-27 01:35:34	taza	shauno the *important* bit is the fact that finding a battery to fuel the RPi requires serious commitment (especially with their shipping restrictions) as opposed to just using any tablet power bank, which means you're much more tethered in your projects.
2018-02-27 01:36:17	taza	The less-important-but-still-important is that you can't just take a Koppla and wire it up as it is, which makes you reliant on online stores for spare parts.
2018-02-27 01:36:40	taza	Me, as an adult, fluent in the languages required for online store access? No problem. Kids? Problem.
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2018-02-27 01:40:15	shauno	I'm actually not sure which part struggles with the dropout, since the soc doesn't use 5v
2018-02-27 01:40:23	RoyK	"tru" american for "through" or "true"
2018-02-27 01:40:58	ali1234	shauno: the 3.3v regulator
2018-02-27 01:41:52	inook	how do i add bold text using imagemagic in python??
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2018-02-27 01:44:53	btorch	I got a pi3 that I just can't seem to be able to get serial console working using my TTL-232R-3V3. I tried adding "enable_uart=1" in the config.txt and swapping pin 8 & 10 around and still nothing. anyone had similar issue ?
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2018-02-27 01:45:31	btorch	The red light is alwasys on and the green light seems to always blink 4 times slow and then 4 times quick over and over again
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2018-02-27 02:12:47	dehuman	btorch: dont you also need associated cmdline.txt options
2018-02-27 02:12:56	dehuman	or verify
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2018-02-27 02:15:25	Mezzmer	Good morning, good afternoon, good evening.
2018-02-27 02:16:11	Mezzmer	I'm looking for RaspberryPi gaming/Archimedes gaming channels.
2018-02-27 02:16:28	Mezzmer	Does anyone know?
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2018-02-27 02:19:32	Mezzmer	I mean to print "Writing Games For Risc OS" PDF tomorrow at the local library.
2018-02-27 02:19:47	choscura	eh?
2018-02-27 02:20:25	btorch	dehuman: yes I'vee been changing that one too, tring something now that I found
2018-02-27 02:20:28	Mezzmer	I'm going to use Risc OS to develop a game for RaspberryPi
2018-02-27 02:20:52	choscura	why, Mezzmer?
2018-02-27 02:21:07	Mezzmer	Why not?
2018-02-27 02:21:25	choscura	well, it seems like you're artificially restricting the number of people who might play it
2018-02-27 02:21:38	Mezzmer	Explain please.
2018-02-27 02:21:50	choscura	make a game, sure, but make it run on regular pi/raspbian so it's usable without having to copy your custom boot file
2018-02-27 02:22:02	choscura	onto a pi that somebody is probably using for other stuff
2018-02-27 02:22:41	dehuman	yah i'm not gonna ditch everything to run your game
2018-02-27 02:23:07	dehuman	unless your game is an awesome free haptic enabled immersive vr sex game
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2018-02-27 02:23:13	dehuman	then i *might* consider it
2018-02-27 02:23:21	Mezzmer	I bet you would.
2018-02-27 02:23:22	dehuman	and give you your own micro sd card
2018-02-27 02:23:24	choscura	hey, dehuman, there's a #raspberrypi_NSFW
2018-02-27 02:23:40	choscura	with basically that having recently been discussed
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2018-02-27 02:23:46	dehuman	lulz
2018-02-27 02:23:49	-->	TheHacker66 (~TheHacker@151.30.60.102) has joined #raspberrypi
2018-02-27 02:23:55	choscura	also smartweapons
2018-02-27 02:23:58	Mezzmer	What games are available for RaspPi?
2018-02-27 02:24:05	choscura	everything up to n64?
2018-02-27 02:24:11	Mezzmer	No, native.
2018-02-27 02:24:18	choscura	everything up to n64?
2018-02-27 02:24:26	Mezzmer	So you can play Acorn games on it?
2018-02-27 02:25:43	choscura	yeah, and you can run a minecraft server on it, or an openarena server, or whatever
2018-02-27 02:26:18	Mezzmer	But I need a boot OS as discussed?
2018-02-27 02:26:25	Mezzmer	(sounds nice btw)
2018-02-27 02:26:39	Mezzmer	I'll get a pi when the time comes.
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2018-02-27 02:27:19	choscura	dude just get one and see for yourself
2018-02-27 02:27:23	Mezzmer	The thing is I really wanted an A600 again, so I got one with everything including the Acorn monitor.
2018-02-27 02:27:25	choscura	it has a native version of minecraft
2018-02-27 02:27:25	Mezzmer	Ok
2018-02-27 02:27:35	Mezzmer	It cost me less than £200
2018-02-27 02:27:45	choscura	it's reduced stuff, no redstone and no bad guys etc, but it boots in 15 seconds and you're playing that FPS 15 seconds later
2018-02-27 02:27:47	Mezzmer	and I know. That's a great price
2018-02-27 02:27:50	choscura	at 60 fps
2018-02-27 02:27:52	Mezzmer	Ah
2018-02-27 02:27:54	Mezzmer	COOL
2018-02-27 02:27:58	choscura	YES
2018-02-27 02:28:01	choscura	THATS THE POINT
2018-02-27 02:28:20	choscura	so everything up to n-64 is pretty much kosher
2018-02-27 02:28:29	choscura	older FPS and RTS games and so on
2018-02-27 02:28:31	choscura	all good
2018-02-27 02:28:39	Mezzmer	Ok, how much for a fast pi?
2018-02-27 02:28:47	choscura	$35 for the pi3b itself
2018-02-27 02:28:57	Mezzmer	great.
2018-02-27 02:28:57	choscura	add a case, a micro SD card, and a 2.5 amp USB charger
2018-02-27 02:29:20	Mezzmer	I have a screen for it.
2018-02-27 02:29:25	choscura	basically, for all that + mouse keyboard and a second hand screen from good will, you can be up and running on a usable office PC for under $100
2018-02-27 02:29:36	Mezzmer	4:3 screen
2018-02-27 02:29:42	choscura	I mean, ffs, I'm talking to you on one
2018-02-27 02:29:42	Mezzmer	I'd use it for retro games
2018-02-27 02:29:43	choscura	no
2018-02-27 02:29:51	Mezzmer	pixel 2d games
2018-02-27 02:29:53	Mezzmer	Why no?
2018-02-27 02:29:57	choscura	not 4:3 stuff. it's an HDMI out
2018-02-27 02:30:02	Mezzmer	!
2018-02-27 02:30:03	choscura	the old pi had that yellow thing
2018-02-27 02:30:05	choscura	that's the old pi
2018-02-27 02:30:08	Mezzmer	ok ok
2018-02-27 02:30:11	choscura	the current pi is HDMI
2018-02-27 02:30:16	choscura	even the small one is micro HDMI
2018-02-27 02:30:49	choscura	does the 'why' make more sense now? lol
2018-02-27 02:30:51	Mezzmer	how annoying. Can't I use an adapter?
2018-02-27 02:30:57	choscura	yes of course you can
2018-02-27 02:31:01	choscura	they're $2
2018-02-27 02:31:04	Mezzmer	GR8
2018-02-27 02:31:13	choscura	all the pi0 kits come with them now
2018-02-27 02:31:13	Mezzmer	I'll use this side screen I'm IRCing on.
2018-02-27 02:31:25	choscura	yeah, that's what I'm doing
2018-02-27 02:31:31	choscura	only, my pi is running the IRC
2018-02-27 02:31:32	Mezzmer	nice
2018-02-27 02:31:35	Mezzmer	yes
2018-02-27 02:31:43	Mezzmer	Thanks for letting me know all this
2018-02-27 02:31:50	choscura	lol, no problem
2018-02-27 02:31:52	Mezzmer	There is space on my desk for 3 monitors, just
2018-02-27 02:32:03	choscura	use a USB monitor or something
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2018-02-27 02:32:31	Mezzmer	So I can have a Pi, my PC and the Acorn A600 on the same desk
2018-02-27 02:32:34	choscura	there's all these Pi magic mirror things, where they put that behind a one-way mirror etc
2018-02-27 02:32:38	choscura	yep
2018-02-27 02:32:40	Mezzmer	huh?
2018-02-27 02:32:49	choscura	oh, you'll have to google "pi one-way mirror"
2018-02-27 02:32:55	Mezzmer	right
2018-02-27 02:32:59	choscura	you'll probably find www.hackaday.com but there's a link just in case
2018-02-27 02:33:07	choscura	I have to run in meatspace and do other stuff
2018-02-27 02:33:14	Mezzmer	Sure!
2018-02-27 02:33:27	choscura	also, I'm in #raspberrypi_NSFW and there's other cool stuff to talk in, where you won't get in trouble for F bombs
2018-02-27 02:33:36	choscura	I've had to self censor like 5 times this conversation already.
2018-02-27 02:33:38	choscura	6 times.
2018-02-27 02:33:43	Mezzmer	Well
2018-02-27 02:33:58	Mezzmer	I don't mind. This is F for Family I guess
2018-02-27 02:34:15	Mezzmer	I'll stick to the rules, sure.
2018-02-27 02:35:49	Mezzmer	Just who are all these people? Not talking at all?
2018-02-27 02:36:24	clickboom	that's irc.
2018-02-27 02:36:33	Mezzmer	Lurking.
2018-02-27 02:36:42	dehuman	if you get a case and do heavy gaming you may want to get a heatsink or fan or both
2018-02-27 02:36:48	dehuman	if you overclock
2018-02-27 02:36:52	Mezzmer	I don't want heavy gaming
2018-02-27 02:36:55	dehuman	otherwise it doesnt matter
2018-02-27 02:36:55	Mezzmer	I have a PC here
2018-02-27 02:37:11	Mezzmer	Thanks anyway
2018-02-27 02:37:13	dehuman	i tossed a shirt on it on accident
2018-02-27 02:37:14	Mezzmer	:P
2018-02-27 02:37:17	Mezzmer	and?
2018-02-27 02:37:19	dehuman	and it started glitching out
2018-02-27 02:37:23	Mezzmer	Wow.
2018-02-27 02:37:31	Mezzmer	The temperature I guess
2018-02-27 02:37:33	dehuman	well its overclocked and was doing something beefy
2018-02-27 02:37:33	dehuman	yah
2018-02-27 02:37:39	dehuman	it was fine when i uncovered ti
2018-02-27 02:37:58	dehuman	couldnt find it for a minute
2018-02-27 02:38:10	Mezzmer	I guess people can emulate acorn to play my game.
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2018-02-27 02:38:24	dehuman	if you get an add-on fan you may want to get a quiet one too
2018-02-27 02:38:29	Mezzmer	Nah.
2018-02-27 02:38:34	dehuman	first one i used was so noisy
2018-02-27 02:38:56	Mezzmer	Won't be using the gear for anything but games like SWIV and Gods
2018-02-27 02:39:17	Mezzmer	Which are also Acorn games too :P
2018-02-27 02:39:38	btorch	yeah no luck at all :( nothing I do on config.txt or cmdline.txt works
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2018-02-27 03:16:15	blap	so anyone with a pi3 here getting xorg lockups on large file writes ?
2018-02-27 03:17:08	blap	 [drm:validate_tile_binning_config [vc4]] *ERROR* Failed to allocate binner memory: -12
2018-02-27 03:17:48	blap	constant dmesg spam
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2018-02-27 03:52:43	blap	i found the solution
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2018-02-27 04:11:26	blap	echo deadline > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/scheduler   << this fixes my system hangups when writing to sd
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2018-02-27 04:30:17	ball	Is the Ethernet faster on a 2B than a 1B?
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2018-02-27 05:21:15	mlelstv	yes and no
2018-02-27 05:21:38	mlelstv	the hardware is same speed, but 2B has faster CPU.
2018-02-27 05:23:41	ball	...does that help keeping the NIC stoked with data?
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2018-02-27 05:38:30	mlelstv	depends on what you do besides sending data
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2018-02-27 05:48:18	AfonsoHenriques	hello
2018-02-27 05:49:43	AfonsoHenriques	I saw some stuff in youtube about people joining 20-30 RPis ("clustering")
2018-02-27 05:49:55	HrdwrBoB	yes
2018-02-27 05:50:10	HrdwrBoB	it's a good way to learn about clustering and load balancing
2018-02-27 05:51:15	inook	why dont mmy stamp function add stamps rto the pictures? i get no error in the idle  https://ideone.com/AVKS4u
2018-02-27 05:51:26	AfonsoHenriques	Such expedient enhances the cpu or ram performance?
2018-02-27 05:51:58	shauno	clustering on the pi is rarely about performance.  it's usually for learning about clusters without having to buy (a real) one
2018-02-27 05:52:05	AfonsoHenriques	oh
2018-02-27 05:52:08	AfonsoHenriques	sob
2018-02-27 05:52:37	HrdwrBoB	AfonsoHenriques: it enhances nothing about the device
2018-02-27 05:52:43	HrdwrBoB	it merely means you can scale OUT
2018-02-27 05:52:49	HrdwrBoB	which is a modern design pattern
2018-02-27 05:52:51	AfonsoHenriques	hm, got it
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2018-02-27 05:52:59	HrdwrBoB	but if you can do it with a pi
2018-02-27 05:53:08	HrdwrBoB	you can do it with 5000 cloud instances
2018-02-27 05:53:26	HrdwrBoB	or a scientific cluster
2018-02-27 05:53:39	HrdwrBoB	you can test your code on your desk, then have it run on the uni cluster
2018-02-27 05:54:37	AfonsoHenriques	So if I'd like to have more than 1gb RAM
2018-02-27 05:55:05	AfonsoHenriques	I can do only with swapping?
2018-02-27 05:55:20	AfonsoHenriques	I mean, using virtual memory?
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2018-02-27 06:06:42	inook	why dont mmy stamp function add stamps rto the pictures? i get no error in the idle  https://ideone.com/AVKS4u
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2018-02-27 06:30:50	Greg-J	Is there anything like the Compute Module 3 but more powerful?
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2018-02-27 08:32:15	Hitechcg	Greg-J: nope, CM3 is the most powerful thing available
2018-02-27 08:32:20	Hitechcg	along with the Pi 3
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2018-02-27 08:32:56	Hitechcg	unless you mean non-Raspberry Pi devices, for which I can't help you
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2018-02-27 08:46:06		[Habbie back: gone 09:48:01]
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2018-02-27 09:02:14	RaTTuS|BIG	AfonsoHenriques - yes only with swapping
2018-02-27 09:02:26	AfonsoHenriques	ok
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2018-02-27 09:04:33	gordonDrogon	morning Pi pips.
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2018-02-27 09:19:10	clemens3	Morning Gordon
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2018-02-27 09:38:40	Greg-J	I <3 Reddit.
2018-02-27 09:38:46	Greg-J	Bare your soul. https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comments/80l4ap/im_no_longer_will_i_am_uncle_phil/
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2018-02-27 09:40:17	gobostone	reddit is the worst
2018-02-27 09:40:47	Greg-J	That's like saying "the internet is the worst".
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2018-02-27 09:41:30	choscura	that's like saying "reddit is the internet"
2018-02-27 09:41:51	Greg-J	Yeah, it is.
2018-02-27 09:41:52	Habbie	it's just the front page for the internet
2018-02-27 09:41:54	Habbie	don't give it all the credit
2018-02-27 09:42:15	choscura	Daves craving is no credit for reddit. Got it.
2018-02-27 09:42:50	Greg-J	Reddit is, basically, the front page of the internet.
2018-02-27 09:42:57	Greg-J	At this point, anyway.
2018-02-27 09:42:59	choscura	well, that's the tag line, anyway.
2018-02-27 09:43:10	choscura	4chan is still probably in front of them.
2018-02-27 09:43:18	Greg-J	I doubt that.
2018-02-27 09:43:21	choscura	Facebook certainly is, lol
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2018-02-27 09:44:51	Greg-J	https://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/US
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2018-02-27 09:45:45	Greg-J	Is 4chan even on that list?
2018-02-27 09:46:33	shauno	they're on it.  just way down it.  in 31,642nd place.
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2018-02-27 09:47:05	choscura	that's the thing, there's so many of those places
2018-02-27 09:47:11	choscura	and reddit's got a bump in popularity
2018-02-27 09:47:13	shauno	( https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/4chan.com )
2018-02-27 09:47:19	choscura	mostly because it's better at news than newsrooms
2018-02-27 09:47:22	Greg-J	shauno, shouldn't you be in ##elec?
2018-02-27 09:47:25	choscura	so newsrooms are on it and thus quoting it
2018-02-27 09:47:33	Greg-J	There should be no crossing of streams!
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2018-02-27 09:48:55	shauno	eh, I'm much more active in here.  I mostly just lurk there
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2018-02-27 09:52:49	Greg-J	clear
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2018-02-27 10:27:00	MacGeek	hm I just found out that the mac's stock vnc client apparently can't send non-ascii characters to my pi
2018-02-27 10:27:02	MacGeek	weird
2018-02-27 10:27:07	MacGeek	had to install realvnc viewer instead
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2018-02-27 11:45:49	alexanderre	hi there :)
2018-02-27 11:45:56	GeekOfflineNL	hi
2018-02-27 11:46:06	alexanderre	have a pretty simple question but couldn't find the answer
2018-02-27 11:46:58	alexanderre	so I have an hdmi display connected to my Rpi3 and I need regular power management setup for it, so after 5 minutes of inactivity it would turn the display completely off and then bring ot on on keypress or mouse move
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2018-02-27 11:47:13	alexanderre	and so it won't happen while a video is being played back
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2018-02-27 11:47:44	GeekOfflineNL	i have no idea :-)
2018-02-27 11:47:44	alexanderre	but no luck so far - it just turns off even if I do watch vids
2018-02-27 11:47:47	poisonby	Yo. Just got my rpi3, thought I had a microsd card lying around, turns out I didn't :P Which class should I get? Does it matter?
2018-02-27 11:48:10	alexanderre	@poisonby class 10 at least
2018-02-27 11:48:12	GeekOfflineNL	class10, nothing less
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2018-02-27 11:48:34	poisonby	Thank you. Anything else I should look out for?
2018-02-27 11:48:51	GeekOfflineNL	>16GB would be preffered
2018-02-27 11:50:37	alexanderre	yep, I have 32 gigs and don't really use the space
2018-02-27 11:50:41	JimBuntu	poisonby, I suggest resisting any urge to buy a non-brand name card as well... with the big names, you can expect the ratings to be proper... with no-name or lesser names, they could easily lie.
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2018-02-27 11:50:52	alexanderre	however it takes twice the space on my usb hdd backup drive
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2018-02-27 11:51:16	Lartza	But don't get "sandisk" cards from china either :P
2018-02-27 11:51:26	alexanderre	and I'd go for a SanDisk Extreme if you'd ask me :) or some Samsung.
2018-02-27 11:51:40	alexanderre	yep, make sure those are authentic
2018-02-27 11:51:41	Lartza	The brand ones in a local store shouldn't be that expensive
2018-02-27 11:51:51	alexanderre	had a bad issue with a Kingston recently
2018-02-27 11:51:59	poisonby	JimBuntu: I was about to ask about that :P Thanks guys. So SanDisk or Samsung?
2018-02-27 11:52:08	alexanderre	both are good really
2018-02-27 11:52:11	GeekOfflineNL	both
2018-02-27 11:52:26	JimBuntu	Those are two consumer brands I generally trust, so long as not bought on eBay/AliBaba/etc
2018-02-27 11:52:30	alexanderre	ask at a local store which brand has better warranty support in your city
2018-02-27 11:52:46	Lartza	alexanderre, I've just had one card from them DOA but other than that nothing different from other brands
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2018-02-27 11:53:03	GeekOfflineNL	alexanderre, did you ever try to claim warranty on sdcards?
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2018-02-27 11:58:19	alexanderre	well I actually did with that Kingston and failed :)
2018-02-27 11:58:27	GeekOfflineNL	:)
2018-02-27 12:01:04	poisonby	How about Toshiba?
2018-02-27 12:01:08	JimBuntu	I have RMA's baybe 12 cards. I have about another 50 laying around here somewhere that I couldn't RMA. ATP had very reliable industrial microSDs.
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2018-02-27 12:03:43	JimBuntu	poisonby, I don't think I have ever had a Toshiba branded microSD.
2018-02-27 12:04:51	alexanderre	no idea as well on Toshiba
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2018-02-27 12:05:45	poisonby	It's MicroSDHC I'm supposed to get right
2018-02-27 12:05:46	poisonby	?
2018-02-27 12:07:34	JimBuntu	poisonby, that additional "HC" only refers to the capacity
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2018-02-27 12:08:16	poisonby	Ah, I see
2018-02-27 12:08:16	JimBuntu	poisonby, a 32GB microSD is inherently a microSDHC (if you want to add the letters at the end)
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2018-02-27 12:10:04	JimBuntu	I suppose someone could make a non-conforming microSD that has room for 32GB, but wasn't a SDHC... I have never heard of this being the case.
2018-02-27 12:10:58	Habbie	i think i've heard of this happening for 4GB specifically
2018-02-27 12:12:52	JimBuntu	Habbie, could be, I would expect it to have been before the manufacturers agreed on the new format, as it was right around the 2GB/4GB jump... could have also been some sketchy company selling cards that only passed testing if they used some funky system of blocking off bad areas.
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2018-02-27 12:14:21	poisonby	How about UHS?
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2018-02-27 12:15:09	JimBuntu	That's basically another way to describe the read/write performance/speed.
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2018-02-27 12:15:50	JimBuntu	To be more specific, and I could be wrong, but I thnik the UHS rating was directly tied to sustained write performance.
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2018-02-27 12:16:33	poisonby	The Toshiba one was 16 GB, U1 and Class 10. Cheapest one I could find. Hmm
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2018-02-27 12:16:53	blap	i was getting about 3.2MB/s sustained to internal SD
2018-02-27 12:17:05	blap	with dd if=/dev/zero
2018-02-27 12:17:30	JimBuntu	UHS-1 and Class 10 are good, 16GB should be enough depending on your use case... I have no personal experience with Toshiba and I haven't looked at using them as a source
2018-02-27 12:17:42	markie^	going to order my pi 3 later, kinda excited!:)
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2018-02-27 12:19:27	poisonby	Alright, thanks!
2018-02-27 12:19:30	JimBuntu	poisonby, if you want to get the best card for your dollar, I would suggest searching for people doing benchmark testing on them... I am fairly sure there are at least a few people you can find via your favorite search engine that do various benchmarks in different scenarios
2018-02-27 12:19:49	blap	dd bs=1M count=300 oflag=dsync if=/dev/zero of=delme
2018-02-27 12:19:56	blap	314572800 bytes (315 MB, 300 MiB) copied, 73.2913 s, 4.3 MB/s
2018-02-27 12:20:20	blap	that's on a class 10 samsung
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2018-02-27 12:21:05	blap	ext4, disabled journal, fstab options data=writeback,noatime,nodiratime
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2018-02-27 12:22:57	poisonby	JimBuntu: Yeah the problem is how everything is overpriced in Sweden, and sometimes even difficult to get a hold of.
2018-02-27 12:23:01	poisonby	But thanks for the tips!
2018-02-27 12:23:14	JimBuntu	poisonby, you are welcome.
2018-02-27 12:23:29	blap	so what write speed you getting
2018-02-27 12:23:31	JimBuntu	blap, I'm running similar tests myself
2018-02-27 12:23:41	blap	don't forget oflag=dsync
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2018-02-27 12:24:19	JimBuntu	blap, I remembered to use that. My results using your exact command were 4.2 MB/s. I am trying with a few different block sizes
2018-02-27 12:24:35	blap	ty for the info JimBuntu
2018-02-27 12:25:36	JimBuntu	blap, I am running a number of services including a wifi hotspot and traffic control... so I do expect mine to be a bit slower than average
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2018-02-27 12:26:20	JimBuntu	bs=3MB -> 4.6 MB/s
2018-02-27 12:26:58	gordonDrogon	just remember that raw write (or read) speed isn't everything. You need to take into account small block read & writes which is more typical for Linux.
2018-02-27 12:27:08	JimBuntu	yup
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2018-02-27 12:28:32	JimBuntu	bs=4M 4.9 MB/s. I could keep pushing is up, but I would expect about the same improvement based on blocksize being larger. I normally went with 8MB on the desktop when I was writing batches of SDs
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2018-02-27 12:29:53	blap	you can overclock the sd controller to 100mhz
2018-02-27 12:30:12	katnip	i use pi3 for pi-hole and dns, but i also want to use it for znc, is this possible at the same time?
2018-02-27 12:30:24	Habbie	katnip, should be
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2018-02-27 12:30:58	katnip	i had a 'little' trouble last time, ill try again, thanks
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2018-02-27 12:32:06	blap	12.3MB/s to 2.5" 5200rpm drive, 21.9MB/s to 3.5" drive
2018-02-27 12:32:36	blap	i read that around 20MB/s would be a realistic top end for bulk transfer over usb2
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2018-02-27 12:33:57	blap	4.3MB/s to class 8 microSD on usb cardreader
2018-02-27 12:34:46	katnip	Habbie, do you know if ill be stuck using my own ip for the znc or figure how to transfer a domain in?
2018-02-27 12:35:00	Habbie	katnip, well, do you have a domain?
2018-02-27 12:35:13	katnip	yeah
2018-02-27 12:35:27	Habbie	do you want to appear on irc with that domain?
2018-02-27 12:35:43	katnip	would be better than my ip?
2018-02-27 12:35:49	Habbie	no, just trying to figure out what you want
2018-02-27 12:36:29	katnip	just using the domain on the znc for privacy
2018-02-27 12:37:01	Habbie	you'll have to convince your ISP to change your reverse DNS, then
2018-02-27 12:37:05	Habbie	and you'll have to set up forward DNS
2018-02-27 12:37:09	Habbie	which means it does not improve your privacy at all
2018-02-27 12:37:15	katnip	hmm
2018-02-27 12:37:54	katnip	so that would mess with the dns on the pi
2018-02-27 12:38:22	Habbie	not necessarily
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2018-02-27 12:39:56	poisonby	Also, should I get a case? I was thinking of letting it stand naked. Does it matter?
2018-02-27 12:40:16	Habbie	it depends on how clumsy you are ;)
2018-02-27 12:40:54	poisonby	Aight :D
2018-02-27 12:41:07	JimBuntu	poisonby, it can also depend on interference (to or from) the Pi... depending on exactly which one/etc. I seem to remember at least one of the Pis would shut off if it was taken a picture of with certain kinds of flash cameras
2018-02-27 12:41:32	Habbie	ah yes
2018-02-27 12:41:34	gordonDrogon	Get a case.
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2018-02-27 12:42:04	gordonDrogon	If nothing else, it'll protect it when you accidentally pay it down on a foil chocolate wrapper. I've seen that happen (not to one of mine - they're all in cases now).
2018-02-27 12:42:15	gordonDrogon	s/pay/lay/
2018-02-27 12:42:24	shauno	I tend to stick mine in a case if they're going to sit somewhere and do a job 24x7.  the ones I'm just messing with?  they let it all hang out
2018-02-27 12:42:27	JimBuntu	lol, I saw similar happen to an arduino without the feet on it
2018-02-27 12:42:46	JimBuntu	It may have been a seeduino, don't quote me
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2018-02-27 12:43:16	katnip	keeps the dust out
2018-02-27 12:43:37	gordonDrogon	the flash thing is the Wi-Fi chip on the v3 and Zero. Under the chip it's bare silicon - it's a chip really intended to be used inside a device like a phone, etc. the flash bounces off the PCB and onto the chip surface where, if it's a high enough intensity, it causes all sorts of gate lock ups, etc. fortunately no harm appears to happen though.
2018-02-27 12:43:43	poisonby	Yeah it's only like $13, might as well get one. Thanks
2018-02-27 12:43:51	shauno	although I'll admit my primary motivation for cases is that there's apparently a limit to how many bare PCBs I can have hanging out under the TV before she starts dropping hints
2018-02-27 12:44:04	gordonDrogon	I use the pimoroni Coupé cases. great and give easy accecss to the GPIO.
2018-02-27 12:44:43	gordonDrogon	Pimoroni (and others) have vesa mount bases to stick a Pi to the back of a TV (if you're not using it to e.g. wall mount, etc.)
2018-02-27 12:44:56	JimBuntu	I throw mine around, so it's in a black anodized aluminium case that is also wall mountable
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2018-02-27 12:45:25	shauno	does that improve the aerodynamics?
2018-02-27 12:45:43	JimBuntu	shauno, no, I hope it increases the general life span of this one though
2018-02-27 12:45:50	poisonby	https://www.inet.se/produkt/2205747/chassi-till-raspberry-pi-pi-3-svart-gra <- This is the only one I can find in Sweden :/
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2018-02-27 12:47:05	shauno	I've got one of those.  it's actually pretty tidy.  because the sides & top snap off, you can wear as much or as little case as you like
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2018-02-27 12:49:08	gordonDrogon	that's the official case by the Pi Foundation by the looks of it.
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2018-02-27 12:51:41	poisonby	I might as well wait a bit with a case, hopefully I don't destroy it :P
2018-02-27 12:52:39	gordonDrogon	blue tack it to a bit of cardboard...
2018-02-27 12:52:57	GeekOfflineNL	without case the board is a bit fragile. especially if drop something on it :-)
2018-02-27 12:53:01	shauno	if you're looking for a little more choice though, pimoroni & thepihut both ship to sweden for £4 (45sek?)   (for sensible sizes of course)
2018-02-27 12:53:05	poisonby	Haha, I could use the carton it came in
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2018-02-27 12:53:15	shauno	you would not be the first lol
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2018-02-27 12:53:28	shauno	I'm half tempted to believe that's why it started coming in a box instead of a bag
2018-02-27 12:54:09	poisonby	shauno: Oh that's pretty decent for shipment, I wonder how long it takes. I don't like importing though because Sweden's toll rules are confusing and annoying
2018-02-27 12:54:23	poisonby	But thanks I'll take a look
2018-02-27 12:54:34	GeekOfflineNL	poisonby, even for such a low amount?
2018-02-27 12:54:50	GeekOfflineNL	you are not importing the world :-)
2018-02-27 12:55:07	shauno	ugh, tell me about it, I just got stung with a €70 import bill this morning
2018-02-27 12:55:12	poisonby	I don't know even know. Their website sucks.
2018-02-27 12:55:32	poisonby	Ouch
2018-02-27 12:55:33	GeekOfflineNL	poisonby, do you own any LEGO pieces? i onze assambled a pi casing with these blocks
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2018-02-27 12:55:50	poisonby	GeekOfflineNL: Unfortunately not, but I saw some pretty cool builds with lego. Almost tempting
2018-02-27 12:56:01	GeekOfflineNL	poisonby, and fun to do !
2018-02-27 12:56:04	poisonby	also, wtb 3d printer
2018-02-27 12:56:36	@IT_Sean	Buy me one too?
2018-02-27 12:56:48	shauno	I've avoided 3d printers.  they seem like a rabbit hole I can't afford.  a friend got one about a month ago, and I swear all he's done for the last month is upgrade & repair it
2018-02-27 12:57:16	@IT_Sean	It's a 3D printer thing. You wouldn't understand.
2018-02-27 12:57:24	GeekOfflineNL	and paying his <**> off on supplies?
2018-02-27 12:57:38	shauno	oh I have a fair idea.  I used to have a 1974 mini :)
2018-02-27 12:57:49	@IT_Sean	His less than asterisk asterisk greater than?
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2018-02-27 12:58:08	GeekOfflineNL	IT_Sean, :-P
2018-02-27 12:58:14	@IT_Sean	Yo.
2018-02-27 12:58:25	shauno	I suspect his asterick is leaning towards greater than, but he's convinced himself it's more less than because it's peicemeal
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2018-02-27 12:58:52	poisonby	Also ordered the toshiba micro sd card. I guess if it sucks I can just use it on my phone, it was cheap
2018-02-27 12:59:02	 *	JimBuntu is spoiled with commercial 3D printers.
2018-02-27 12:59:07	shauno	I think the postman would greatly appreciate it if he just gave in and moved to China
2018-02-27 12:59:22	GeekOfflineNL	so you can lose photo's on your phone because of a bad card ? great idea !
2018-02-27 12:59:45	poisonby	Yeah!
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2018-02-27 12:59:52	poisonby	Don't worry
2018-02-27 13:00:04	poisonby	gonna back it up on my HDD which I've received tons of I/O errors on for months
2018-02-27 13:00:12	poisonby	I have a good feeling though
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2018-02-27 13:00:52	poisonby	JimBuntu: Got one at work?
2018-02-27 13:01:06	shauno	I never have a good feeling about storage.  all disks are out to get you.  never trust any of them.  Assume the only reason they're still working, is that they're waiting for a more inconvenient moment to die.
2018-02-27 13:01:19	@IT_Sean	That ^
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2018-02-27 13:01:45	GeekOfflineNL	shauno, :-)
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2018-02-27 13:02:17	poisonby	yeah
2018-02-27 13:02:43	poisonby	you can always use the cloud™
2018-02-27 13:03:15	@IT_Sean	The Butt, you mean?
2018-02-27 13:03:48	GeekOfflineNL	There is no cloud, just other peoples computers :-P
2018-02-27 13:04:01	@IT_Sean	That ^
2018-02-27 13:04:12	poisonby	Yeah, I don't get how people trust it with personal data
2018-02-27 13:04:26	alexanderre	shauno, that made my day :))
2018-02-27 13:04:34	GeekOfflineNL	i ones got that one as a sticker on my laptop
2018-02-27 13:04:53	shauno	no small irony that most the big commercial clouds are run by companies who already have all of your personal data
2018-02-27 13:05:21	JimBuntu	poisonby, yeah, it's a couple years old now, but still good.
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2018-02-27 13:05:37	poisonby	I sold a large portion of my life story to Faceboook. I've since removed my account though (feels good). It took a long time for me to give up and register, regret it ever since.
2018-02-27 13:05:48	poisonby	JimBuntu: That's cool, I'm jealous!
2018-02-27 13:07:06	poisonby	Wasn't it Mark Zuckerberg who called Facebook users sheep or something?
2018-02-27 13:07:29	shauno	I'm especially entertained by people who let the world's largest advertising company host & read their email, and then worry about putting private files in the cloud ;)
2018-02-27 13:07:43	GeekOfflineNL	poisonby, and removing the facebook app and messenger from your smartphones also gives you hours a day more battery life
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2018-02-27 13:08:20	poisonby	shauno: There are few sensible alternatives for email hosting though. Hosting yourself seems like a huge hassle.
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2018-02-27 13:08:32	Habbie	i moved my email to fastmail
2018-02-27 13:08:35	Habbie	it's very good
2018-02-27 13:08:37	GeekOfflineNL	shauno, simple answer: because it is free
2018-02-27 13:08:38	poisonby	Never heard of. What is it?
2018-02-27 13:08:45	Habbie	poisonby, an email hosting service
2018-02-27 13:09:17	GeekOfflineNL	i moved to runbox mail. also a email hosting service
2018-02-27 13:09:36	GeekOfflineNL	not free though
2018-02-27 13:09:40	shauno	I still host my own.  grumpy-old-man style.  the only quirk I really have left to iron out, is that when something goes wrong .. the nagios email doesn't get delivered until it's already fixed
2018-02-27 13:10:06	JimBuntu	shauno, sounds like you need a back-up mail service strictly for that kind of thing
2018-02-27 13:10:24	gordonDrogon	I've hosted my own email for decades. mostly because that's the way we did it 25+ years ago, then I worked for an ISP, then I ran an ISP, then ...
2018-02-27 13:10:44	JimBuntu	shauno, Did you go with a webmail service and (to keep it on=topic ;-D ) what are your thoughts on using a Pi for this?
2018-02-27 13:10:50	alexanderre	@JimBuntu @shauno backed up in the cloud :))
2018-02-27 13:11:00	JimBuntu	lol
2018-02-27 13:11:37	gordonDrogon	I use to own & host my own servers in a data center, but these days I just rent a couple of VPSs.
2018-02-27 13:11:37	shauno	no webmail, and a pi would need to be hosted somewhere.  a good 4/5ths of the planet is allergic to email that comes off a residential netblock.  windows ruined that one for us.
2018-02-27 13:11:37	JimBuntu	I back up in the cloud (my cloud)
2018-02-27 13:11:41		[Habbie away: brb]
2018-02-27 13:11:57	poisonby	Got any tips for hosting yourself?
2018-02-27 13:12:00	Habbie	i -almost- moved my mail to my pi at home
2018-02-27 13:12:03	gordonDrogon	yes. don't do it.
2018-02-27 13:12:05	Habbie	but i have non-residential ip space
2018-02-27 13:12:07	poisonby	:(
2018-02-27 13:13:27	gordonDrogon	poisonby, it's one of those questions that if you have you ask then ... just don't do it.
2018-02-27 13:13:38	shauno	my best advice is don't go for the cheapest host you can find.  you don't just have to keep your own IP squeaky clean, it helps to have well-behaved neighbours too.  the $2/month VPSes tend not to attract good neighbours (or reactive support)
2018-02-27 13:15:33	GeekOfflineNL	so, i am off, running in the wild :-)
2018-02-27 13:15:36	GeekOfflineNL	bye bye
2018-02-27 13:15:39	poisonby	GeekOfflineNL: take care
2018-02-27 13:15:45	poisonby	That's a shame
2018-02-27 13:15:45	GeekOfflineNL	thnx
2018-02-27 13:15:51	shauno	once places the size of gmail start to give your neighbourhood the stinkeye, you really start to discover how much of your email used to end up at gmail anyway
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2018-02-27 13:54:27	poisonby	I just realized I don't have a micro sd card reader, lol. Do you know if I can plug it into my phone, plug my phone into the computer and mount the sd card that way? To transfer the files
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2018-02-27 13:57:55	Habbie	poisonby, depends on the phone, often yes!
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2018-02-27 13:58:30	poisonby	Habbie: Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge, know if it works with that one? :P
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2018-02-27 13:58:38	Habbie	i don't
2018-02-27 13:58:42	poisonby	Awh, thanks though
2018-02-27 13:58:43	Habbie	what do you want to mount it for?
2018-02-27 13:58:55	poisonby	Put on NOOBS
2018-02-27 13:59:07	JimBuntu	poisonby, Do you have a full-size reader/writer?
2018-02-27 13:59:23	poisonby	JimBuntu: A what?
2018-02-27 13:59:31	Habbie	poisonby, that should be doable even without your PC, using something like ES File Explorer
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2018-02-27 13:59:44	Habbie	poisonby, if you have an SD card reader that is not micro
2018-02-27 13:59:45	JimBuntu	poisonby, a full size SD card reader/writer? If so, they sell super cheap SD cards that you slide the microSD into
2018-02-27 14:00:06	Habbie	most microSDs i've bought even came with that adapter
2018-02-27 14:00:41	poisonby	Oh. I think so, yeah. It's a laptop, has a slot called "MMC SD"
2018-02-27 14:00:46	Habbie	ah
2018-02-27 14:00:48	Habbie	that should do it
2018-02-27 14:00:50	Habbie	if you can find such an adapter
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2018-02-27 14:00:56	poisonby	I'll look, thanks!
2018-02-27 14:01:06	Habbie	i have one right here, wish i could send it to you :)
2018-02-27 14:01:30	poisonby	Oooh nice, you do get micro SD to SD adapter with that card. Lucky
2018-02-27 14:01:34	JimBuntu	Teleporters, why are you not a thing!?
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2018-02-27 14:02:40	Lartza	Also you literally cannot by those damn SD adapters pretty much anywhere
2018-02-27 14:03:49	JimBuntu	Lartza, maybe I should change that as I have hundreds
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2018-02-27 14:03:59	Lartza	Well you can get them from China but
2018-02-27 14:04:08	Lartza	That's 2-4 weeks of waiting
2018-02-27 14:04:10	poisonby	JimBuntu: Get ready to make millions
2018-02-27 14:04:34	argoneus	  if I accidentally wire 3.3V into a GPIO will that shortcircuit?
2018-02-27 14:04:40	poisonby	JimBuntu's SD Card Adapter Emporium
2018-02-27 14:04:43	GenteelBen	What is JimBuntu, a new Ubuntu fork?
2018-02-27 14:04:49	JimBuntu	poisonby, lol.
2018-02-27 14:04:51	GenteelBen	It can't be better than BenBuntu, surely?
2018-02-27 14:05:00	argoneus	I'm a bit confused as to what the GPIO actually is, since it can be both GND and the VCC
2018-02-27 14:05:00	JimBuntu	Nah GenteelBen
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2018-02-27 14:05:37	ae01	Hello
2018-02-27 14:05:41	ae01	every body,
2018-02-27 14:05:56	ae01	I using a raspberryPi
2018-02-27 14:06:09	ae01	But don't have IPV6 from dhcp.
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2018-02-27 14:07:19		[Habbie back: gone 00:55:38]
2018-02-27 14:07:30	ae01	I learn to config with dhcpcd.conf
2018-02-27 14:07:33	poisonby	ae01: Which distribution/OS?
2018-02-27 14:07:45	poisonby	IIRC raspbian has ipv6 turned off by default
2018-02-27 14:08:05	ae01	poisonby, I using raspbian.
2018-02-27 14:08:17	ae01	poisonby, Really?
2018-02-27 14:08:29	BurtyB	raspbian has ipv6 on by default but it uses stateless config rather than dhcp for ipv6 iirc
2018-02-27 14:09:00	ae01	The ubuntu desktop can get the IPV6 from router.
2018-02-27 14:09:51	ae01	BurtyB, How to checking with the dhcpcd?
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2018-02-27 14:10:07	ae01	BurtyB, I mean some basic command line for checking.
2018-02-27 14:11:05	BurtyB	ae01, possibly needs something like https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/IPv6#With_dhcpcd in the config
2018-02-27 14:11:22	ae01	BurtyB, Thank you. I will study.
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2018-02-27 14:25:00	 *	swift110 sends the farting ferrets to GenteelBen 
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2018-02-27 14:38:52	shantorn	hi, i have imaged raspbian stretch and set my localization and wifi country and the wifi adapter on my pi3 will not show up as a working device, i have imaged this card 2 times now with the same results with the latests 11/28/2017 image, now i have another card with the same image and it works fine, can anyone give me a hint as to what to do to get my wifi working on it?
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2018-02-27 14:40:23	shantorn	well nevermind, 2 reboots later and now its working
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2018-02-27 14:52:44	bobstro	3rd time's the charm?
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2018-02-27 15:02:26	pwillard	BurtyB: Yeah,  IPV6 definitely needs disabling if you don't want it.
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2018-02-27 15:03:27	pwillard	shantorn: that is off behavior though...
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2018-02-27 15:04:24	argoneus	yay! first project done :D https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/380458973821796352/418059257909346304/IMG_20180227_155723.jpg
2018-02-27 15:04:40	Habbie	well done argoneus 
2018-02-27 15:04:46	argoneus	tl;dr temp sensor and a python script that lights the LED up once it passes a threshold
2018-02-27 15:04:52	argoneus	very simple but demonstrative I think
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2018-02-27 15:08:32	bobstro	first one's the hard one. congrats.
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2018-02-27 15:13:21	argoneus	the most gratifying part was the part where the LED didn't fry because I calculated the resistances correctly
2018-02-27 15:13:29	argoneus	feels good
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2018-02-27 15:20:50	dodge-lint	Hi. I'm a little confused at the moment. I have a very simple circuit. just 3.3V via a 120 Ohm resistor going to a GPIO pin which is configured as IN with pull_down. This works perfectly. When the 3.3V are connected the rpi reads a 1, when I disconnect the 3.3V I get a 0. All fine so far.
2018-02-27 15:21:37	dodge-lint	Now I switched from using the rpi's 3.3V pin and instead use an external AC-DC-Adaptor to give me 3V. Shouldn't this work just as well?
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2018-02-27 15:21:54	Habbie	dodge-lint, if you make your ground common, this should work
2018-02-27 15:22:16	Habbie	dodge-lint, i.e. connect pi ground to ground on the external adapter
2018-02-27 15:22:36	Habbie	dodge-lint, otherwise the two '3v3s' may in fact be different when compared to eachother
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2018-02-27 15:24:47	dodge-lint	Habbie, ah okay. Makes sense. I'll try that
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2018-02-27 15:29:54	dodge-lint	okay that has weird behavior. If my external adapter (similar to this one https://www.amazon.com/SoulBay-Universal-Switching-Selectable-Suitable/dp/B01ISM267G) is plugged in everything works fine. I can switch between 1 and 0 by connecting and disconnecting the 3V to GPIO (via resistor). however if I unplug my AC-DC-Adaptor the rpi keeps reading the last value it had before the unplugging
2018-02-27 15:31:52	Habbie	unplug where exactly?
2018-02-27 15:32:33	dodge-lint	from the outlet
2018-02-27 15:33:05	Habbie	but still connected to gpio
2018-02-27 15:33:25	dodge-lint	yep
2018-02-27 15:33:45	Habbie	somehow i'm not very surprised
2018-02-27 15:33:50	Habbie	but i cannot put that into words
2018-02-27 15:34:02	dodge-lint	:-D
2018-02-27 15:34:19	Habbie	you know how sometimes AC/DC-adaptors have a LED on them that fades out slowly after you unplug them?
2018-02-27 15:34:23	Habbie	it could be that
2018-02-27 15:34:30	Habbie	and we're talking milliamps here
2018-02-27 15:35:20	dodge-lint	But that slow fading is due to capacitors right?
2018-02-27 15:35:32	Habbie	i bet
2018-02-27 15:35:34	Habbie	i'm not an expert
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2018-02-27 15:36:26	dodge-lint	but are those capacitors able to keep up the 3V forever? :-D. They should be discharged after a few seconds and then the GPIO should switch to reading 0, right?
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2018-02-27 15:36:50	Habbie	if they are the reason, it depends on how long they can feed a few mA
2018-02-27 15:37:03	Habbie	but perhaps this is something else entirely - your input floating again because nothing is happening
2018-02-27 15:37:15	Habbie	this is about where i have to say "i hope somebody else who knows is awake" :)
2018-02-27 15:38:58	dodge-lint	but floating should be impossible with the activated pull-down
2018-02-27 15:40:15	dodge-lint	any idea how I could make this work? what I effectively want to do is detect whether a 433mhz "smart" wall plug is on or off. The AC-DC adaptor is plugged into this smart plug
2018-02-27 15:41:12	Habbie	hmm yes, the pull-down
2018-02-27 15:41:14	Habbie	i don't know, sorry
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2018-02-27 15:41:38	Habbie	you can't poll the plug over 433mhz?
2018-02-27 15:41:53	dodge-lint	nope
2018-02-27 15:42:12	dodge-lint	thanks for your help anyways!
2018-02-27 15:42:23	Habbie	np
2018-02-27 15:42:26	Habbie	stick around, somebody else might wake up
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2018-02-27 15:46:48	dodge-lint	sure. Just to make things clearer, this is my setup: https://imghost.io/images/2018/02/27/circuit.jpg I want to detect whether the smartPlug is on or off
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2018-02-27 15:48:07	gordonDrogon	dodge-lint, stick a 470Ω resistor and an LED on the output of the wall-wart
2018-02-27 15:48:46	gordonDrogon	then, if it's 3.3v you can just monitor it on the Pi. the led & resistor will bleed any capacitors in a few seconds.
2018-02-27 15:49:46	JimBuntu	dodge-lint, The SmartPlug already has an LED stating if it's powered on, right? Can you mount a simple photosensor over it and have your device check that photosensor? I know this doesn't answer your actual question, simply in the spirit of it and without having to tie into the smart-plug.
2018-02-27 15:50:05	BCMM	i need to get a font with a less ugly capital omega
2018-02-27 15:50:15	gordonDrogon	Ω ?
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2018-02-27 15:50:41	dodge-lint	gordonDrogon, you mean Adaptors-3V -> 470 Ohm -> LED -> Ground ?
2018-02-27 15:50:50	gordonDrogon	dodge-lint, yes.
2018-02-27 15:50:56	Habbie	ground? or gpio in?
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2018-02-27 15:51:30	gordonDrogon	so the adapter powers the LED when turned on, and the LED goes off when the adapter is turned off. Check this, then connect to the Pi as before.
2018-02-27 15:52:00	gordonDrogon	adapter Gnd & Pi Gnd need to be connected, but the wall-wart & LED can be tested before connecting to the Pi.
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2018-02-27 15:52:22	gordonDrogon	Could even go to a 330Ω resistor to the LED.
2018-02-27 15:52:27	gordonDrogon	(and no resistor to the Pi)
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2018-02-27 15:55:21	dodge-lint	JimBuntu, I have to admit thats a little too complicated for me at the moment
2018-02-27 15:55:51	JimBuntu	dodge-lint, Oh, ok, sorry, I was thinking it was a simpler implementation.
2018-02-27 15:56:32	dodge-lint	JimBuntu, maybe it is. But I'm a real beginner with the wiring stuff.
2018-02-27 15:56:36	gordonDrogon	the way JimBuntu says is a fairly good way of monitoring mains (or something else) when you want full isolation - it's just a crude opto isolator
2018-02-27 15:56:46	gordonDrogon	dodge-lint, can you wire a resistor and LED?
2018-02-27 15:57:10	JimBuntu	exactly gordonDrogon
2018-02-27 15:57:59	dodge-lint	gordonDrogon, I put in the resistor and LED like you said. when turning off the smart plug the led keeps glowing for a few seconds while the GPIO reads 1. when the led turns off GPIO reads 0. so this is working I guess
2018-02-27 15:58:06	Habbie	yay
2018-02-27 15:58:14	gordonDrogon	dodge-lint, if a few seconds delay is OK for you, then go with it.
2018-02-27 15:58:36	dodge-lint	my next question would be how to minimize this delay :-D. To near 0 if possible
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2018-02-27 15:59:05	gordonDrogon	well - in that case, you want a neon lamp wired into the mains (via 1MΩ resistor) and an opto sensor on it.
2018-02-27 15:59:24	gordonDrogon	the other way is to use an RC dropper and LED opto isolator.
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2018-02-27 15:59:53	gordonDrogon	but if you don't want to touch the mains then stick to that.
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2018-02-27 16:00:24	gordonDrogon	You could use a lower resistor and 3-4 LEDs which will drain it faster.
2018-02-27 16:01:16	dodge-lint	okay so you say for near-0-delay JimBuntu's solution would be best? (The smartPlug already has a status-LED)
2018-02-27 16:01:17	gordonDrogon	or just stick a 5 watt 33 ohm resistor over it.
2018-02-27 16:01:52	gordonDrogon	ok - if the smartplug thing has an indicator, then yes, an optical sensor next to it might work.
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2018-02-27 16:02:06	Habbie	and/or wire that indicator to gpio in, perhaps?
2018-02-27 16:02:15	Habbie	but opto is better
2018-02-27 16:02:25	dodge-lint	I'd rather not open the smartplug
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2018-02-27 16:02:42	dodge-lint	I'll see if I have an optical sensor somewhere
2018-02-27 16:02:58	gordonDrogon	some might work directly into a Pi, some might not.
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2018-02-27 16:03:38	gordonDrogon	the cheap little LDR (Light dependant resistor - e.g. ORP12) will, but you might need some fiddling and a lot of blue tack to make sure it's dark...
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2018-02-27 16:04:11	JimBuntu	dodge-lint, you may even be able to use a similar color LED as the LED in the smartplug, as a super-crude light sensor
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2018-02-27 16:04:33	gordonDrogon	crude? at the nano-amp level crude...
2018-02-27 16:04:38	argoneus	huh, why do you need to connect the pi GND to the adapter GND?
2018-02-27 16:04:46	argoneus	is that because it's not really "GND" because it's DC?
2018-02-27 16:04:57	argoneus	so you need to close the circuit
2018-02-27 16:05:11	Habbie	no, it's because otherwise the voltages on the two devices are floating relative to eachother
2018-02-27 16:05:15	Habbie	hope i'm saying this right
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2018-02-27 16:05:30	gordonDrogon	you are - whether he'll understand is a different matter.
2018-02-27 16:05:32	Habbie	sure
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2018-02-27 16:05:44	pwillard	GND is a known point of reference...
2018-02-27 16:05:51	lopta	Anyone tried Firefox 57 on Raspberry Pi (on Linux or BSD)?
2018-02-27 16:05:57	argoneus	oh
2018-02-27 16:06:06	argoneus	as in "3.3V" on device 1 and "3.3V" on device 2 aren't always 3.3V?
2018-02-27 16:06:09	argoneus	like, exactly
2018-02-27 16:06:19	gordonDrogon	no. it's all relative.
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2018-02-27 16:06:39	pwillard	If you place a ladder on the ground (pun intended) and you take 2 steps up... everyone looking knows how high up you are based on your DISTANCE from GND.
2018-02-27 16:06:53	lopta	That and you need a return path for the current.
2018-02-27 16:07:03	pwillard	and that... you need a circuit
2018-02-27 16:07:11	JimBuntu	"but pwillard, I'm not at the same elevation as you"
2018-02-27 16:07:34	argoneus	oh
2018-02-27 16:07:43	argoneus	so my point about having to close the circuit through the pi's - was correct?
2018-02-27 16:07:44	pwillard	JimBuntu: you also are not near my ladder and not part of my circuit
2018-02-27 16:07:55	dodge-lint	I can't find any optical sensor
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2018-02-27 16:08:33	lopta	If you don't provide a return path for the current (and you're using more than one pin), it'll likely find one that you're not keen on.
2018-02-27 16:09:08	argoneus	mm, I see
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2018-02-27 16:09:17	argoneus	sorry still new to this :c
2018-02-27 16:09:44	lopta	argoneus: ##electronics is a handy resource for those of us starting out in electronics.
2018-02-27 16:09:49	pwillard	yup
2018-02-27 16:10:05	 *	argoneus is already there but asked here for some reason
2018-02-27 16:11:24	pwillard	Until the grounds are connected... 1) there is no point of reference for what the voltage is 2) there is no circuit path for current flow (a critical part of any working electronic design)
2018-02-27 16:12:28	 *	lopta waits patiently for firefox-57.0.2.source.tar.xz to download
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2018-02-27 16:14:00	blap	presenting: the 'thinkpi' https://files.catbox.moe/qttsrh.jpg
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2018-02-27 16:14:42	dodge-lint	I have a 30 ohm resistor which is rather big. I don't know the wattage but it is larger than my usual resistors so I'll just try
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2018-02-27 16:16:33	gordonDrogon	blap, how do we know there's a Pi inside it?
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2018-02-27 16:16:49	JimBuntu	I think it's off to the right side
2018-02-27 16:16:49	blap	:)
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2018-02-27 16:17:53	JimBuntu	blap, Pi as a temp control for your coils?
2018-02-27 16:18:14	blap	:)
2018-02-27 16:18:34	blap	in a pinch i can run the pi off the cuboid power supply
2018-02-27 16:19:11	blap	actually that might be a fun experiment
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2018-02-27 16:19:47	JimBuntu	I built something up using an arduino a year or so ago.... turned out not to be very fun
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2018-02-27 16:21:36	dodge-lint	just to be safe. I added a 30-ohm resistor like this: https://imghost.io/images/2018/02/27/circuit2.jpg  Will I fry anything with this setup? My ac-dc-adaptor says its output is max. 9 Watt
2018-02-27 16:22:10	gordonDrogon	dodge-lint, that 30Ω resistor will get very hot.
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2018-02-27 16:23:46	dodge-lint	meh
2018-02-27 16:24:14	dodge-lint	I guess I need to get an optical sensor...
2018-02-27 16:24:16	gordonDrogon	it'll dissipate about half a watt, so it needs to be a 1 watt resistor and 5 watt to be safe.
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2018-02-27 16:24:43	dodge-lint	How can I find out the wattage of the resistor?
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2018-02-27 16:26:51	shauno	I assually assume the littles ones that come with most kits are 1/4W
2018-02-27 16:26:58	gordonDrogon	most small ones are 1/8th to 1/4.
2018-02-27 16:27:37	gordonDrogon	so you could improvise and wire 3 x 100Ω ones in parallel.
2018-02-27 16:27:49	<--	mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2018-02-27 16:27:56	gordonDrogon	make sure there's a gap between them.
2018-02-27 16:28:05	gordonDrogon	(just to let the heat out)
2018-02-27 16:28:12	shauno	power resistors are fun though; https://i.imgur.com/3BEkx6y.jpg
2018-02-27 16:28:15	JimBuntu	better the heat than the smoke
2018-02-27 16:28:28	dodge-lint	gordonDrogon, perfect. I'll do that
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2018-02-27 16:28:50	gordonDrogon	yea, when the black smoke gets out, that's it. Game over.
2018-02-27 16:29:05	gordonDrogon	proof that magic black smoke is what makes electronics work.....
2018-02-27 16:29:14	dodge-lint	As long as its just the resistors I'm fine with that
2018-02-27 16:29:16	JimBuntu	I have a refill bottle ;-D
2018-02-27 16:29:22	dodge-lint	:-D
2018-02-27 16:29:35	@IT_Sean	Best use refillable resistors the
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2018-02-27 16:30:43	strixdio	resister fluid?
2018-02-27 16:30:54	strixdio	resistor* augh
2018-02-27 16:31:00	 *	strixdio chuckles
2018-02-27 16:31:11	shauno	that chunky resistor (photo) is only 10W though.  I don't know how far they go before you get the ones with heatsinks
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2018-02-27 16:31:40	strixdio	with a pi, you're supposed to use the gpio with transistors right? they're not like the io of other microcontrollers right?
2018-02-27 16:31:42	BCMM	not much point in refillable resistors tbh, new magic smoke costs nearly as much as a new resistor anyway
2018-02-27 16:32:02	BCMM	strixdio: they have a fairly limited max current draw, if that's what you mean
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2018-02-27 16:32:08	 *	strixdio nods
2018-02-27 16:32:27	BCMM	but it's adequate to light a small LED, for example
2018-02-27 16:32:40	strixdio	I see.
2018-02-27 16:32:42	BCMM	or directly operate some types of relay
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2018-02-27 16:32:50	strixdio	oo
2018-02-27 16:32:50	JimBuntu	shauno, You can get aluminum finned ones at 5W
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2018-02-27 16:33:13	strixdio	I've had pi's for a few years now, but I'm juuuust getting into using them now.
2018-02-27 16:33:24	strixdio	Trying to figure out a better project than just "retropie".
2018-02-27 16:33:36	pwillard	Why so strong a voltage divider?
2018-02-27 16:33:53	pwillard	Or whatever you are doing there?
2018-02-27 16:34:04	shauno	there is no better project than retropie.  the problem (here) is what to do with the rest of the them
2018-02-27 16:34:42	shauno	(aka I don't remember buying all these pi)
2018-02-27 16:35:20	--	IT_Sean is now known as IT_AFK
2018-02-27 16:35:40	pwillard	meh... RetroPi Chaps my behind.  Do 1 thing, do it well, versus do 30 things poorly as adopted by Retropi coders.
2018-02-27 16:36:25	shauno	(I have enough pi that my gf has taken to calling all pcbs "raspberries".  and complains when new ones arrive in the post when I'm not using the ones I already have)
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2018-02-27 16:37:21	MacGeek	I've seen the other day a product that placed a compute module 3 into a game boy advance shell
2018-02-27 16:37:26	MacGeek	seemed neat
2018-02-27 16:37:41	shauno	I have something like that which uses the zero too
2018-02-27 16:37:56	MacGeek	freeplay something or other I believe
2018-02-27 16:38:13	shauno	actually this reminds me, I bought more junk for the rc2014 last night, so I need to get to thursday's post before she does
2018-02-27 16:38:40	MacGeek	yeah freeplay
2018-02-27 16:38:42	MacGeek	https://www.freeplaytech.com/product-category/freeplaytech-diy-kits/
2018-02-27 16:38:53	MacGeek	they have one version using the zero, and one version using the compute module
2018-02-27 16:39:36	shauno	neat!
2018-02-27 16:39:48	shauno	the one I have is for the regular (DMG) gameboy
2018-02-27 16:40:19	gordonDrogon	strixdio, you only need transistors, etc. if you're driving something that needs more than about 8mA.
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2018-02-27 16:40:33	Simonious_	I sure get tired of nickserv forgetting who I am and the resulting channel boots/bans
2018-02-27 16:41:10	Habbie	yes, it's a pretty unreliable service
2018-02-27 16:41:33		[Habbie away: bbl]
2018-02-27 16:41:42	Simonious_	anyway.. I've got a pi3 here that has started dumping my ssh connections usually within a minute of establishing them and I'd like to track down what is going on and I'd love some tips on that process.
2018-02-27 16:41:52	gordonDrogon	shauno, I looked at the rc2014 stuff recently - decided to not give my bank the $ to £ conversion fee and he wouldn't sell direct despite being in the same country )-:
2018-02-27 16:42:01	Habbie	Simonious_, anything in the logs on the pi?
2018-02-27 16:42:06	Habbie	Simonious_, how is it 'dumping' them?
2018-02-27 16:42:08	 *	strixdio nods at gordonDrogon
2018-02-27 16:42:09	strixdio	thanks
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2018-02-27 16:42:19	gordonDrogon	strixdio, you can drive LEDs ok for hobby stuff.
2018-02-27 16:42:27	Simonious_	Habbie: how do I get these logs.. :)
2018-02-27 16:42:34	pwillard	haha... RC2014... another bottomless pit of options to buy
2018-02-27 16:42:38	Habbie	they would be in /var/log or under journalctl
2018-02-27 16:42:38	gordonDrogon	http://unicorn.drogon.net/pi17leds.jpg
2018-02-27 16:42:39	strixdio	freeplay kit looks cool
2018-02-27 16:42:39	Habbie	sorry, dinner time
2018-02-27 16:42:51	shauno	I'm on the euro, so I'd be charged either way
2018-02-27 16:42:58	strixdio	I want to make a "Nintendo Switch" style retropie build some day.
2018-02-27 16:43:04	gordonDrogon	shauno, yes, I guess so )-:
2018-02-27 16:43:20	blap	just tested 'globs' opengl benchmark: I just got GL_shadow 204, GLSL_parallax 252, GL_pointz 227, GL_blit 285, GL_smoke 155 fps
2018-02-27 16:43:26	gordonDrogon	anyway, it's Z80 and I've decided to ressurect my old 6502 stuff...
2018-02-27 16:43:30	Simonious_	https://pastebin.com/AeMZXp0h my ifconfig looks like this
2018-02-27 16:43:56	shauno	there's 6502 boards for it too ;)
2018-02-27 16:44:16	gordonDrogon	shauno, yea, but not mine :)
2018-02-27 16:44:23	pwillard	you can DIY pretty much all of RC2014 from OSHPARK
2018-02-27 16:44:38	gordonDrogon	an I simply refuse to waste money going through three different scalpers before it gets to the seller.
2018-02-27 16:45:12	shauno	pretty much.  I do like getting full kits though.  I'm horribly lazy, and it seems whenever I pick up a board where I have to find the parts myself, I never quite get around to it
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2018-02-27 16:46:40	shauno	I still haven't finished Ed's YM2149F board.  I think all I'm missing is resistors that are nowhere close to what I have handy
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2018-02-27 16:49:06	shauno	but I think spencer's kits are still the only ones where everything you need arrives in the same envelope
2018-02-27 16:49:35	dodge-lint	gordonDrogon, works fine. thank you very much
2018-02-27 16:49:54	pwillard	I just finishing the RC2014 prop based VGA card
2018-02-27 16:50:46	pwillard	I tried using the pi-zero and just gave up on pigfx option
2018-02-27 16:50:59	shauno	I guess I'm going the opposite direction there.  I just picked up the esp8266 kit so I can just telnet in
2018-02-27 16:51:25	shauno	yeah, pigfx never seemed to quite work for me either.  it always felt like I was arm-wrestling with a nice idea
2018-02-27 16:51:42	pwillard	right.
2018-02-27 16:52:02	pwillard	Note: I did create a ##rc2014 channel... just nobody cared.
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2018-02-27 16:53:48	shauno	aha!  I just put the name together with the google group and now I feel like an idiot
2018-02-27 16:56:33	gordonDrogon	pwillard, ironic that the display chip is more powerful than the Z80 ;-)
2018-02-27 16:56:48	pwillard	Isn't it though?
2018-02-27 16:56:57	gordonDrogon	same for the Pi serial board!
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2018-02-27 16:57:25	pwillard	But I would argue that my Home PC Video GPU is better than my Intel Processor on board
2018-02-27 16:57:51	gordonDrogon	I guess so. it's an interesting mix of retro and contemporary.
2018-02-27 16:57:59	pwillard	haha... yeah... thats me
2018-02-27 16:58:10	gordonDrogon	gpu isn't as general purpose as mainboard cpu though.
2018-02-27 16:58:35	pwillard	right
2018-02-27 16:58:41	gordonDrogon	video is an issue when looking at a modern retro system - you can still get the processors, but not the crtc chips )-:
2018-02-27 16:58:58	red9	What is the command to list all active TCP connections in LInux?
2018-02-27 16:59:12	pwillard	But the real issue... is that CRT chips of the Z80 Era are almost unobtanium... or require more support chips than is reasonable
2018-02-27 16:59:14	gordonDrogon	red9, netstat - check the man page for the flags you might want.
2018-02-27 16:59:25	gordonDrogon	pwillard, same for 6502 systems...
2018-02-27 16:59:59	shauno	I don't have any crts left anyway :/
2018-02-27 17:00:08	red9	gordonDrogon, is there an equalient of "sockstat -4" for BSD systems?
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2018-02-27 17:00:33	gordonDrogon	red9, no idea. it's been ~25 years since I last used BSD.
2018-02-27 17:00:33	red9	pwillard, The solution is CPLD / FPGA.
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2018-02-27 17:01:14	gordonDrogon	red9, man netstat will tell you what you need.
2018-02-27 17:01:21	shauno	that I've been trying to avoid.  things start turning into little boxes of black magic, and I lose the sense of knowing what everything's doing
2018-02-27 17:01:26	pwillard	Easiest one though was the MC6847... MC6845 was a bear... TI9918 was the coolest...  and I'm JUST learning about my GAL chips I have in my collection
2018-02-27 17:01:38	gordonDrogon	the cpld, etc. solutions just seem too ..... modern .... for a retro system (to me, anyway)
2018-02-27 17:02:05	gordonDrogon	pwillard, Heh.. yea, I'm just starting on GALs too ... just as they go obsolete ...
2018-02-27 17:02:22	red9	shauno, Well you didn't inspect the chip die before in 80's did you ? ;)
2018-02-27 17:02:30	shauno	cpld are pretty 80s too, they're just at the expensive end of the 80s
2018-02-27 17:02:38	pwillard	I notice that the newest addition is the I2C board using a CPLD... (to replace essentially a SN74138)  Sledgehammer much?
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2018-02-27 17:03:00	gordonDrogon	I think people are either a) lazy or b) showing off
2018-02-27 17:03:21	gordonDrogon	you can bit-bang I2C ...
2018-02-27 17:03:32	<--	imfearless (~imfearles@corporate.datayard.us) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2018-02-27 17:03:39	r3	pwillard: I love my RC2014!
2018-02-27 17:03:42	pwillard	I know... you can do it with a PIA on the Z80 as well
2018-02-27 17:03:50	shauno	or sticking with what they know
2018-02-27 17:04:04	red9	So the only difference is the exterior chip package. Label it MOS 6569 and love it ;)
2018-02-27 17:04:10	<--	colints (~fn-colint@185.21.218.140) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2018-02-27 17:04:21	shauno	(a lot of things I do wrong, are simply using what I already have/know for the wrong thing)
2018-02-27 17:04:34	pwillard	I'm actually quite familiar with chip dies of the 1970's... as I worked on a proto lab for Digital at that point and a lot of the CHIP guys in my office liked to show off their work (or what they were designing with)
2018-02-27 17:05:37	red9	pwillard, But you ain't opening the chip dies on a machine in use to make sure it's not fake.. ;-)
2018-02-27 17:05:57	pwillard	No... they were proud of their work.  http://www.cpu-collection.de/?l0=i&i=2558
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2018-02-27 17:06:33	gordonDrogon	looks like an lsi 11 chip ..
2018-02-27 17:06:55	pwillard	the F11 chip... codename "the fonz"...   and yes, there is a DIE image of fonzie saying "ayyyy" with thumbs up.
2018-02-27 17:07:03	 *	gordonDrogon reads the title - doh!
2018-02-27 17:07:07	red9	What is the cost these days to produce say an MOS 6569 ASIC using standard but modern chip technologies? ie 10-100-1000 of?
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2018-02-27 17:07:30	shauno	I wonder how many of those you could actually replicate on a cpld.  a lot of chips for that kinda interface weren't entirely digial
2018-02-27 17:08:24	red9	Well the chip that seems to be hard to replicate is MOS 6581 in NMOS.
2018-02-27 17:08:33	shauno	I mean the SID famously doesn't actually work the same if you don't account for crosstalk & stray capacitance.  it's not just a net of gates
2018-02-27 17:08:48	red9	Or rather NMOS 300 µm is obsoleted so well problem..
2018-02-27 17:09:53	r3	gordonDrogon, "<gordonDrogon> so you could improvise and wire 3 x 100Ω ones in parallel." - if each of those were 1/4W resistors, now they can handle 3/4W, right?  - I get myself confused sometimes
2018-02-27 17:10:53	pwillard	Can spend hours here  https://zeptobars.com/en/
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2018-02-27 17:15:10	red9	Come to think about it MOS VIC-II ought to contain some analog parts. Question is if it matters. I know PAL analog bandwidth mixing matters for the right feeling but otherwise it should just be "net of gates".
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2018-02-27 17:18:02	red9	https://old.myhdl.org/doku.php/projects:phoenixsid_65x81  "This unique effort combines an FPGA with a real analog filter for the best possible sound."
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2018-02-27 17:18:27	gordonDrogon	r3, it will ultimately depend on the bundle being able to dissipate the heat effectively - I'd not like to say yes, but it will go some way.
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2018-02-27 17:19:11	red9	Unfortunately he died in 2007.
2018-02-27 17:19:15	r3	thanks, gordonDrogon
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2018-02-27 17:19:44	r3	so it's not purely additive then, even when using resistors of the same rating and value
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2018-02-27 17:20:40	red9	pwillard, zeptobars.com makes me wanna do my own ASIC designs. Do you have any idea what the cost is these days since you seem into it?
2018-02-27 17:21:01	gordonDrogon	I think there are too many factors - size & surface area, ability to get rid of heat, etc. as a quick hack, you might get away with it...
2018-02-27 17:21:03	pwillard	sadly... no clue. Its just a fascination
2018-02-27 17:21:18	gordonDrogon	much better to get the right part wherever possible.
2018-02-27 17:21:32	 *	r3 nods
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2018-02-27 17:26:22	red9	gordonDrogon, MOS 6581 in NMOS 300 um is just manufactured anymore..
2018-02-27 17:26:30	red9	+not.
2018-02-27 17:26:42	pwillard	Check out the Semiconductor DIE based inductors on the ESP8266 die https://zeptobars.com/en/read/Espressif-ESP8266-wifi-serial-rs232-ESP8089-IoT
2018-02-27 17:27:58	pwillard	https://hackaday.com/2016/11/24/giving-the-world-a-better-sid/
2018-02-27 17:28:26	gordonDrogon	red9, I know - none of them are - although you can get some via ebay, etc.
2018-02-27 17:28:50	gordonDrogon	red9, 65c02's, via/pia/acia are still being made though.
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2018-02-27 17:30:29	red9	They are 100% digital though. And it's the chips with analog parts that is the hard-to-get.
2018-02-27 17:31:27	Mathuin	The SID and the VIC were the best parts of the C-64 design IMO.
2018-02-27 17:31:59	--	h4ndy is now known as H4ndy
2018-02-27 17:32:03	red9	BSD: sockstat -4  Linux: netstat -nat   (seems to be analogues sans the IPv4 filtering)
2018-02-27 17:32:17	gordonDrogon	oddly enough, although I was a real 6502 fan, I never got into the Commodore machines - Apple, Beeb for me at that time. (as well as the ones I made)
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2018-02-27 17:33:18	Mathuin	It was our first machine at home, and it was in my bedroom so I got a lot more time on it.
2018-02-27 17:34:06	shauno	I was entirely atari for 8bit, and entirely amiga for 16bit   (excluding an amstrad cpc64 that snuck in there somewhere)
2018-02-27 17:34:43	red9	weird.. the TCP connection that show up as 'ESTABLISHED' ain't there. Any ideas on how to find out if a specific TCP connection is real in any other way?
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2018-02-27 17:34:58	Mathuin	red9: can netstat or lsof help you?
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2018-02-27 17:41:33	red9	lsof was interesting. But it seems to also display the connection as "ESTABLISHED" even though it's not there.
2018-02-27 17:42:32	red9	Seems the TCP stack on Raspbian is doing wierd things.
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2018-02-27 17:43:24	red9	gonna try keepalive option and see if it improves matters.
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2018-02-27 17:48:16		[Habbie back: gone 01:06:43]
2018-02-27 17:48:47	mfa298	red9: that's fairly standard across most linux (and unix probably), connections often stay open unless actually closed (can be useful in some cases but not in others)
2018-02-27 17:49:16	mfa298	if you want keepalives you need to explicitly enable them on the connection
2018-02-27 17:50:32	gordonDrogon	might want to look at SOREUSE too. (I think that's the flag)
2018-02-27 17:51:04	Habbie	SO_REUSEADDR i bet
2018-02-27 17:51:09	red9	What's SOREUSE ?
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2018-02-27 17:51:25	Habbie	if a connection is ESTABLISHED
2018-02-27 17:51:29	Habbie	some process is holding a socket for it
2018-02-27 17:51:30	red9	mfa298, did so. Now time will tell.
2018-02-27 17:51:37	mfa298	In the past (until stateful firewalls with short timeouts got in the way) I've had ssh sessions continue working after having the internet connection in the middle out for several hours.
2018-02-27 17:51:40	gordonDrogon	what Habbie said - if you open a socket without it, then close it you can't reuse that connection until it times out (ish)
2018-02-27 17:51:53	Habbie	reuse that listen port, mostly, but indeed
2018-02-27 17:52:33	gordonDrogon	red9, you may want to add 'p' to those flags to get the program name on that socket.
2018-02-27 17:52:53	red9	asfaik SO_REUSEADDR will only let one to (re-)use the same listening port. It will not make sure that defunct connections are wiped out.
2018-02-27 17:52:59	Habbie	correct
2018-02-27 17:53:06	Habbie	wiping out defunct connections is the socket owner's job
2018-02-27 17:53:10	Habbie	using shutdown/close
2018-02-27 17:53:19	Habbie	or by virtue of the owner dying
2018-02-27 17:53:35	red9	gordonDrogon, netstat or lsof ?
2018-02-27 17:53:42	Habbie	-p for netstat
2018-02-27 17:53:48	gordonDrogon	red9, netatat -natp
2018-02-27 17:53:49	Habbie	lsof already gives you processes i believe
2018-02-27 17:54:11	red9	Habbie, Only works if the process is informed by the TCP stack that it is the case.
2018-02-27 17:54:34	Habbie	oh, your problem is that your process is running, but there is no traffic over the connection, and thus you don't notice that the other side has gone away / a middlebox has lost the state?
2018-02-27 17:57:28	red9	There's no traffic for hours over the connection. So the connection "dies" but the TCP stack and process still thinks it's alive and well. But the other computer reports it as gone. The problem is that this will prevent the program from quiting and thus triggering a new connection setup.
2018-02-27 17:57:42	Habbie	and you can't add keepalives?
2018-02-27 17:58:17	red9	Ie upon gone'd connection it should exit(1); otherwise the setup gets stuck and the computer can't be reached..
2018-02-27 17:58:31	--	IT_AFK is now known as IT_Sean
2018-02-27 17:58:56	red9	Habbie, I can but I didn't thought it was necessary and had to look it up for explicit syntax (socat).
2018-02-27 17:59:05	mfa298	red9: that's the bit you need to add keepalives to (and or something within your protocol to detect if stuff is there)
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2018-02-27 18:01:08	red9	The crude solution right now is another process that just explicitly kill -9 the other process that owns the connection. It works. But is kind of annoying when you hit that timer before you are done.. ;)
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2018-02-27 18:01:34	mfa298	enabling keepalives has been a standard requirement for network apps on *nix (you can enable them globailly in the kernel, but the standard thought is they should be set to reasonable values per applications)
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2018-02-27 18:02:48	Habbie	red9, is -9 really necessary?
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2018-02-27 18:02:57	red9	Well I think that when I establish a TCP connection it should stay until I say it shall be removed. First we created a nice TCP stack, then people &%¤# it up.
2018-02-27 18:03:22	red9	Habbie, maybe not. But why bet on it? ;)
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2018-02-27 18:03:52	Habbie	well, if that process also manages data on disk, not doing -9 might be cleaner
2018-02-27 18:04:07	red9	When it fails == walk in freezing temperatures on unfriendle circadian rythm phases ;)
2018-02-27 18:04:19	olegb	I have a problem with IPv6 - it seems that I have enabled IPv6 and it gets an non-local IPv6 adress - but after a few minuttes the RPI expires the adresses (wlan and eth0)
2018-02-27 18:04:47	<--	Alexander-47u (~Alexander@85.17.73.28) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2018-02-27 18:04:52	red9	Habbie, No disk data or state to worry about.
2018-02-27 18:05:48	red9	Getting an non-local IPv6 adress seems weird?
2018-02-27 18:06:03	 *	choscura is learning about socket vulnerabilities reading the above convo
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2018-02-27 18:06:39	olegb	by aa "local"
2018-02-27 18:06:46	red9	Like moving into San Francisco and the post service tells you that your official address is in New York but that all mail will physically be sent to San Francisco.. ;)
2018-02-27 18:06:57	olegb	by a "local" ipv6 i mean fe80::
2018-02-27 18:07:38	red9	choscura, Anything in particular in mind?
2018-02-27 18:07:45	shauno	what's the first digit of the address you are getting?
2018-02-27 18:09:10	mfa298	red9: maybe don't do a blocking read on the socket if it's needing a kill -9 to exit.
2018-02-27 18:09:17	choscura	red9, I was scrolled up reading about the sockets/SOREUSE thing, that's interesting to know that the socket is held open so that even an out internet connection between two nodes, over several hours, can re-establish the connection later.
2018-02-27 18:09:33	mfa298	if you close the connection properly then it shouldn't hang around and cause you to kill -9
2018-02-27 18:09:34	Habbie	choscura, hours? no
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2018-02-27 18:09:44	Habbie	mfa298, i don't think red9 said -9 was necessary
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2018-02-27 18:10:17	red9	So fe80:: is part of the IPv6 address when the DHCP etc screwed up?
2018-02-27 18:10:26	choscura	Habbie, the 'hours' was the extreme case "this one time I..." scenario, with the shoehorned-in disclaimer that modern firewalls changing state normally interfere with that now
2018-02-27 18:10:27	Habbie	it's not like that
2018-02-27 18:10:28	Habbie	if you enable v6
2018-02-27 18:10:29	Habbie	you get fe80
2018-02-27 18:10:35	red9	mfa298, I didn't write the program..
2018-02-27 18:10:35	Habbie	-additionally- you might get something from your router
2018-02-27 18:10:49	Habbie	choscura, no, but a kernel will not keep it around for hours either
2018-02-27 18:11:04	choscura	Habbie, in older operating systems?
2018-02-27 18:11:18	Habbie	unlikely
2018-02-27 18:11:24	shauno	ipv6 likes to have lots of addresses.  3 or 4 is expected, more isn't unusual
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2018-02-27 18:11:27	mfa298	choscura: doesn't happen so easily now as there tends to be nat and stateful firewalls in the way (or should be) which will drop their knowledge of session state
2018-02-27 18:11:51	red9	choscura, the connection will be there but you still need to present valid data. Though various three letter orgs are known to screw around with people using this.
2018-02-27 18:12:18	choscura	that's what I was trying to say, Habbie read that.
2018-02-27 18:12:34	choscura	also, lol, mitm? really? NOOOOOOOOO (/sarcasm)
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2018-02-27 18:13:29	red9	choscura, They say they don't do ev1l so it must be so.. ;-)
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2018-02-27 18:13:52	choscura	Eh, I don't think they're competent enough to safely handle the data they receive
2018-02-27 18:14:04	mfa298	Habbie: the example I was giving was things like ssh where the cilent and server are still running but the connection in the middle drops - which is still possible if you don't have firewalls or nat to drop state, mitm won't be any easier than for an open connection - you still need the same ip and ports open on both ends for the connection.
2018-02-27 18:14:05	choscura	I don't think any of them are safe from each other
2018-02-27 18:14:17	choscura	except maybe china, by sheer dint of making the chips everyone else uses
2018-02-27 18:14:44	Habbie	mfa298, right
2018-02-27 18:14:54	red9	Like Google, don't be ev1l.. except if there's a profit to be made.  Oh and if there's a spying to be done. Or.. ;-)
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2018-02-27 18:15:06	shauno	if you get an ipv6 address starting with 2 or 3, you've got a public address.  in that case, I'd try radvdump to see if your router sends anything interesting around the time you drop an address  (also pay attention to whether ifconfig calls the address 'temporary' or not.  those are meant to disappear)
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2018-02-27 18:16:16	choscura	Hey, is there a way to make a raspberry pi automate all these good practices?
2018-02-27 18:16:22	choscura	for a whole network
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2018-02-27 18:16:34	choscura	going in and deleting spy cookies or whatever.
2018-02-27 18:16:39	red9	The Chinese ironing tool that had builting WiFi spy/compromise chip builtin certainly was a eye opener..
2018-02-27 18:17:14	red9	spy cookies is bad habit of web browsers not IP stack?
2018-02-27 18:17:58	choscura	well, what can be done on IP stack to sanitize network traffic?
2018-02-27 18:18:01	shauno	yeah.  that sounds like you want a script that logs into other machines and deletes things you don't think should be there, which is a bit .. "the road to hell is paved with good intentions'
2018-02-27 18:18:24	choscura	shauno, lol, yeah, basically. no, I don't want that. but, a poison tap could do that.
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2018-02-27 18:19:18	shauno	a tap on a pi wouldn't be much fun either.  I pay for 360meg, not ~half of the pi's usb
2018-02-27 18:19:24	red9	choscura, I'll suppose killing connections that gets FIN sent is one thing. And wiping out any connection innundated with malformed packets.
2018-02-27 18:19:55	red9	pay for 360meg?
2018-02-27 18:20:04	choscura	shauno, the whole point of a poison tap is offensive, on other PC's
2018-02-27 18:20:26	shauno	that's not what I assumed you meant by "automate these good practices", sorry
2018-02-27 18:20:28	choscura	but, if you use that idea and make it controllable, instead of just automated destruction, then it becomes a very powerful tool
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2018-02-27 18:21:06	red9	I think google internally have an IP stack that signs every packet such that you can't send ANYTHING even if you are holding the physical cable..
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2018-02-27 18:21:07	choscura	so the poison tap, for anyone not familiar, is a pi that is programmed to present itself over a USB connection to another computer, as if the pi were a generic USB WIFI key
2018-02-27 18:21:38	choscura	it's able to get network credentials from the computer and actually connect to the wifi and rout packets through that way
2018-02-27 18:21:50	Habbie	how does it get the credentials?
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2018-02-27 18:22:01	red9	choscura, Will required physical access right?
2018-02-27 18:22:01	choscura	but what it does is it presents itself as having the alexa top million sites in local memory
2018-02-27 18:22:04	Habbie	oh because it's usb
2018-02-27 18:22:05	Habbie	not wifi
2018-02-27 18:22:16	choscura	this is over USB, yeah
2018-02-27 18:22:40	red9	There's a reason to distrust all things wireles..
2018-02-27 18:22:42	Habbie	i never thought about who does the crypto - the wifi stick or the computer
2018-02-27 18:22:44	choscura	but, this could work as a wifi dongle that your computer connects through that VPN's your machine and sanitizes connection
2018-02-27 18:22:50	<--	Volis (uid12493@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzjeylsgakumjlru) has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2018-02-27 18:23:14	red9	You can't really know if you'r talking to your computer next to you or the black car outside..
2018-02-27 18:23:28	choscura	and it would be a *NIGHTMARE* for security operations like black care outsides
2018-02-27 18:23:35	choscura	and fuck those guys
2018-02-27 18:23:39	choscura	I want to make their job harder.
2018-02-27 18:24:09	choscura	either we're all equal, or none of us are. they aren't more trustworthy than the general public with these tools.
2018-02-27 18:24:21	<--	invisiblek (~invisible@unaffiliated/invisiblek) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2018-02-27 18:24:22	--	invisiblek_ is now known as invisiblek
2018-02-27 18:24:46	red9	btw WPA2 was cracked.. by design ;-)
2018-02-27 18:24:47	choscura	...."Invisible K" or "Invisi Blek"?
2018-02-27 18:25:11	--	Topic for #raspberrypi is "Unofficial RaspberryPi IRC channel but "Blessed" by the Foundation as the ONE channel. | Logs: http://srv.datagutt1.com | Rules: https://goo.gl/h5qPhz"
2018-02-27 18:25:11	--	Topic set by gordonDrogon (~gordon@2001:4d48:ad51:8901::2) on Sat, 24 Dec 2016 15:04:53
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2018-02-27 18:25:42	choscura	yeah, so, make the thing that they have access to just encrypted on the layer below
2018-02-27 18:25:51	red9	choscura, All people are different. But one could still respect eachother. However a lot of "black cars" just want to abuse others by any means possible.
2018-02-27 18:25:54	shauno	well, this has all gone a bit off the nutty end for me, so I'm gonna quit procrastinating and go to the supermarket
2018-02-27 18:26:01	choscura	and if you want, encypher and linguistically fuck up your messages to make them even more inobscurable.
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2018-02-27 18:26:30	choscura	but that's the extreme case.
2018-02-27 18:26:36	@IT_Sean	Shauno: buy me taco ingredients while you are there, ja?
2018-02-27 18:26:47	Mathuin	choscura: Watch out, man, you're off to _NSFW-land for that. :-)
2018-02-27 18:26:47	choscura	which is why, rather than all that shit, I want a poison tap/vpn ppppower cccombo
2018-02-27 18:26:51	Habbie	choscura, can you tone down the f-word please? :)
2018-02-27 18:26:58	choscura	ooooooh
2018-02-27 18:27:01	shauno	that's not a terrible idea.  that might teach her to be a little less vague about her instructions
2018-02-27 18:27:05	choscura	sorry! I've got a potty mouth, my bad
2018-02-27 18:27:10	Habbie	choscura, thanks!
2018-02-27 18:27:17	@IT_Sean	No potty mouth in here, m8
2018-02-27 18:27:18	shauno	choscura, me too.  I just pretend my nanna's in here  lol
2018-02-27 18:27:40	choscura	see, this is why there's a _NSFW pi room. because when I'm in time-out I still want to talk about doing cool stuff with pi's.
2018-02-27 18:28:22	shauno	I grew up near glasgow, and both my parents were sailors.  I could make a trucker blush, but not my nanna.  I think it's called 'code switching'.  it's real handy for job interviews too
2018-02-27 18:28:42	inc0gn1t0	Pppower cccombo😂
2018-02-27 18:28:54	red9	context switch?
2018-02-27 18:29:46	Mathuin	context switching is a computer term, code switching is a linguistic one as it was explained to me.
2018-02-27 18:30:16	Mathuin	There was a movie years ago called Rising Sun which had a scene which demonstrated the concept very well.
2018-02-27 18:30:42	red9	Then a 6502 op code like JSR is a "code switching". I think linguistic people are not good on computer science :p
2018-02-27 18:30:44	shauno	there's some romanian guys at work who'll switch to english mid-sentence as soon as they realise you're trying to join in.  blows my mind
2018-02-27 18:31:25	red9	symbol set switching :)
2018-02-27 18:31:26	shauno	code-switching ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code-switching ) *without* context-switching.  black magic imho
2018-02-27 18:31:56	Mathuin	One of the early scenes in Hunt for Red October does a nice transition from subtitled Russian to English.
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2018-02-27 18:32:29	shauno	it's a really weird effect.  I always have to stop and wonder if I just didn't catch the first half of the sentence, or if it really was in another language
2018-02-27 18:33:01	red9	The captain also observes the political officer accidently slipping to death by a coffe spill ;)
2018-02-27 18:33:02	gordonDrogon	just like when you stick a babel fish in your ear ..
2018-02-27 18:33:33	choscura	hang on, catching up, was meatspacing
2018-02-27 18:33:41	choscura	argh, again, sec
2018-02-27 18:33:49	JimBuntu	The "13th Warrior" movie does a good job of this switching language
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2018-02-27 18:34:00	shauno	I guess the term is meant to be for much more dramatic shifts, like multilinguals.  but I think it explains the difference between talking to brother vs mother vs grandmother well too
2018-02-27 18:34:04	Mathuin	Also Crichton (sp?) but I haven't seen it.
2018-02-27 18:34:07	red9	I thought meat space had been obsoleted ? :p
2018-02-27 18:34:30	shauno	we're trying to, but tesco doesn't believe my house exists
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2018-02-27 18:35:42	red9	Multitasking computers keeps the code but switch location. But they also switch registers, MMU table etc.. So it's a lot more to it. And thus linguistic majors will probably miss this and make a misnomer out of it.
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2018-02-27 18:36:20	Mathuin	red9: in the case mentioned earlier (devs switching spoken language mid-stream) there's no change in "registers, MMU table", just in the printf() format strings. :-)
2018-02-27 18:37:12	shauno	right, that's what I was originally trying to get at.  that you can maintain the context with a slightly different vocab.  we do it every day without noticing
2018-02-27 18:37:23	mfa298	choscura: sorry was away for a bit so might have missed it, but take a look at things like pihole if you want to stop some of the ads/tracking
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2018-02-27 18:38:39	red9	speaking of context switching and why I didn't implement non-MMU 6502 multitasking. I have access to a 8 kB EPROM - 6502 - 2 kB RAM - 6522 board. Thinking about if I should explore it ;)
2018-02-27 18:39:04	red9	Pre 16C84 times ;-)
2018-02-27 18:39:34	Mathuin	Were there any original 6502 projects with MMUs?  The earliest I remember those were in the 80x86 where x >=1.
2018-02-27 18:40:10	gordonDrogon	the C-128 had a form of mmu, but I'm not sure it was anything more complicated than a bank switcher (which the bbc micro also had)
2018-02-27 18:40:31	mfa298	red9: google are probably using IPv6 internally which I think has the option of end to end encryption at the protocol level - although I'm not sure how many people use that.
2018-02-27 18:40:34	Mathuin	I never had a 128, they were too expensive back then.
2018-02-27 18:40:54	Habbie	mfa298, the ipv6 spec mandates ipsec support in all implementations; but it's widely available for v4 as well
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2018-02-27 18:41:34	gordonDrogon	everything was expensive back then.
2018-02-27 18:41:43	Mathuin	And I think Google is using end-to-end encryption internally between data centers after one of the more recent encryption scandals.
2018-02-27 18:42:15	Mathuin	Yes, yes it was.  We repaired the C-64 after the power switch got broken.  A piece of 2x4, a switch from radio shack, some braided wires, and stern instructions NOT TO BREAK IT.
2018-02-27 18:42:26	mfa298	Habbie: It's been a long time (~15 years) since I was looking at the detail of IPv6. At that time lots of things were talked about being mandated although I think some have since been dropped.
2018-02-27 18:42:32	Habbie	mfa298, yes
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2018-02-27 18:42:43	Habbie	mfa298, but on the crypto side, v6 has nothing that v4 does not (usually) have
2018-02-27 18:42:49	Habbie	mfa298, i haven't followed the whole history
2018-02-27 18:43:38	Mathuin	I last cared about 6 when I had a 6to4 bridge through Hurricane and tried to run 6 internally.
2018-02-27 18:43:43	Mathuin	That was fail.
2018-02-27 18:43:55	Mathuin	Was also like 10-12 years ago IIRC.
2018-02-27 18:44:25	gordonDrogon	I've used ipv6 at home/office for almost a decade now.
2018-02-27 18:44:26	mfa298	the bits I'm remembering was at the protocol level (I think between IPv6 and tcp/udp) which isn't so normal on IPv4 (you would tend to run IPv4 within an encrypted tunnel)
2018-02-27 18:44:47	Mathuin	gordonDrogon: nice.
2018-02-27 18:45:16	Habbie	mfa298, it is my understanding (from zero experience) that ipsec for v4 is not really a 'tunnel' either - depending on the modes chosen
2018-02-27 18:45:29	mfa298	I think it's well over a decade I've had IPv6 at home (still tunneled) - I'm on my third tunnel broker now
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2018-02-27 18:45:49	Habbie	i'm on my final tunnel broke now
2018-02-27 18:45:50	Habbie	'myself'
2018-02-27 18:46:49	Habbie	*broker
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2018-02-27 18:47:01	red9	Mathuin, why was IPv6 a fail for you?
2018-02-27 18:48:00	gordonDrogon	I'm fortunate in that I get native IPv6 from my ISP.
2018-02-27 18:48:13	gordonDrogon	I have a /56 at home/office.
2018-02-27 18:48:44	red9	I read that the three alphapet organisation that employed a certain "snow" by design messed IP-sec up so as to deter people from using it.
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2018-02-27 18:49:12	Habbie	red9, this is a common rumour, yes
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2018-02-27 18:50:18	Mathuin	It was verified that the S-boxes in DES were tweaked by those same agencies, I believe.
2018-02-27 18:50:30	red9	Habbie, And how do we know it's a rumor and not fact? Not the kind of guys that are open about their doings..
2018-02-27 18:50:32	Habbie	Mathuin, and those tweaks were later proven to -improve- DES greatly
2018-02-27 18:50:40	Habbie	red9, yeah, i dunno
2018-02-27 18:50:48	Mathuin	Habbie: yes, but the fact that they were silently tweaked was pretty darned suspicious at the time. :-)
2018-02-27 18:50:52	Habbie	yes :)
2018-02-27 18:50:58	Mathuin	red9: at the time, I had some client-side software that was written poorly with internal IPv4 dependencies. :-(
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2018-02-27 18:51:48	red9	Too much equipment btw that isn't IPv6 capable nativly btw. (esp DSL things)
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2018-02-27 18:52:32	Mathuin	Could be worse.  In the early 90s I was a netadmin and the network kept going down Friday afternoons.  Turns out two guys pirated some stupid Mac car racing software, which reset their MAC addresses to the game's serial number.
2018-02-27 18:52:53	Mathuin	Two identical MAC addresses on an old Ethernet network, bad news.
2018-02-27 18:53:09	Habbie	identical, or odd first octet?
2018-02-27 18:53:26	Mathuin	All six octets were set based on the serial number of the software.
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2018-02-27 18:53:40	Habbie	well yes, but was the first octet odd?
2018-02-27 18:53:46	Habbie	because identical doesn't sound like it would take down a network
2018-02-27 18:54:05	Mathuin	Spanning tree was in its infancy back then, and our network was 10Base2.
2018-02-27 18:54:10	s77	hi guys. is it possible to erase the standard raspberry pi 16gb micro sd card and flash it with my own operating system?
2018-02-27 18:54:13	<--	kingarmadillo (~kingarmad@38.104.254.34) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2018-02-27 18:54:18	s77	Or is it protected somehow
2018-02-27 18:54:18	Habbie	s77, yes
2018-02-27 18:54:20	red9	Mathuin, Good that the Raspbian ethernet layer randomizes the MAC on every boot such that you have to play catch-the-IP-now-again(tm)
2018-02-27 18:54:22	Habbie	s77, it is not
2018-02-27 18:54:27	s77	ok. Then  I will order :)
2018-02-27 18:54:27	mfa298	identical would probably break stuff for them, but shouldn't upset anyone else unless they're taking the router mac address.
2018-02-27 18:54:30	Habbie	red9, ethernet? just the wifi, right?
2018-02-27 18:54:30	Mathuin	red9: wait what?!
2018-02-27 18:54:43	Mathuin	The WiFi MAC is not hardcoded?
2018-02-27 18:54:55	Mathuin	Is there a way to force it from software to a sane value?
2018-02-27 18:55:09	JimBuntu	s77, you may have caught that out of order... yes, you can reformat the sd card... it is not protected.
2018-02-27 18:55:21	mfa298	I've not seen the mac address on the network (ethernet or wifi) on any of my pis change
2018-02-27 18:55:25	s77	great JimBuntu
2018-02-27 18:56:40	red9	ifconfig eth0 hw ether B8:27:EB:00:00:00
2018-02-27 18:56:59	Mathuin	Like everyone else, I kinda need it hardcoded if it's a headless remote device.
2018-02-27 18:57:04	-->	energizer (~energizer@unaffiliated/energizer) has joined #raspberrypi
2018-02-27 18:57:04	Mathuin	Whee.
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2018-02-27 18:59:22	red9	Mathuin, make sure that command runs asap in the boot scripts.
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2018-02-27 19:00:17	Mathuin	k
2018-02-27 19:00:36	Habbie	or maybe see if you can stick it in config.txt?
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2018-02-27 19:00:45	Habbie	(not the literal command, but the equivalent command)
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2018-02-27 19:01:11	Mathuin	Well, the device itself won't show until tomorrow, I'll stress about it then. :-)
2018-02-27 19:01:15	Habbie	:)
2018-02-27 19:01:20	Mathuin	I have homework and scholarship applications due tomorrow too. :-(
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2018-02-27 19:01:26	red9	<driver>.macaddr=B8:27:EB:00:00:00
2018-02-27 19:01:27	Habbie	better get to it then
2018-02-27 19:02:20	mfa298	if you're getting random mac addresses that you have to manually change you're probably doing something non standard.
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2018-02-27 19:03:09	mfa298	the ethernet mac address is supposed to be set based on the serial number (not sure how the wifi is set, possibly via the same method)
2018-02-27 19:03:10	gordonDrogon	you can use 00:00:FC:x.y.z if you like. I (or rather the now defunkt company I worked for) registered that one many moons back.
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2018-02-27 19:03:41	gordonDrogon	although I don't think you get a random MAC on the Ethernet side - I've never checked the wi-Fi side
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2018-02-27 19:04:20	Habbie	my perception/recollection is that the ethernet side is static and 'i remember reading' the wifi side might not be
2018-02-27 19:05:10	red9	Speaking of Ethernet, anyone done CAN bus?
2018-02-27 19:05:13	gordonDrogon	nope. just rebooted a Zero - same MAC on wi-fi before & after reboot.
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2018-02-27 19:05:57	red9	I think WiFi is a whole another beast. Works differently albeit compatible "enough" with Ethernet.
2018-02-27 19:05:57	Habbie	red9, i looked at it a few times for doing things with my car
2018-02-27 19:06:05	Habbie	red9, then a friend mentioned he tried doing canbus stuff with his car
2018-02-27 19:06:08	mfa298	my zerow has had the same wifi mac address from the first time it was booted (name raspberrypi) until now (with a different name)
2018-02-27 19:06:18	Habbie	red9, and he heard a few pops and his airbag light came on
2018-02-27 19:06:21	Habbie	red9, so i lost interest ;)
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2018-02-27 19:07:10	red9	Habbie, Had this idea of doing Ethernet over CAN in order to exploit the builtin CAN transceiver in cheap ARM microcontrollers.
2018-02-27 19:07:24	Habbie	oh that does sound like fun
2018-02-27 19:07:25	red9	But a payload of 8 bytes seems tight.
2018-02-27 19:07:38	Habbie	there is a lower boundary to what you can usefully build things on
2018-02-27 19:07:41	Habbie	ATMs 48 is cutting it close already
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2018-02-27 19:08:09	Habbie	do you have these cheap microcontrollers?
2018-02-27 19:08:24	red9	If the /¤(#" bastards could just put a 10Base-T MAC and tranceiver into every cheap microcontroller then things would be fine per default.. but no.
2018-02-27 19:08:45	red9	48 what?
2018-02-27 19:08:48	Habbie	bytes
2018-02-27 19:08:50	--	Topic for #raspberrypi is "Unofficial RaspberryPi IRC channel but "Blessed" by the Foundation as the ONE channel. | Logs: http://srv.datagutt1.com | Rules: https://goo.gl/h5qPhz"
2018-02-27 19:08:50	--	Topic set by gordonDrogon (~gordon@2001:4d48:ad51:8901::2) on Sat, 24 Dec 2016 15:04:53
2018-02-27 19:08:51	Habbie	per ATm cell
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2018-02-27 19:08:55	red9	ah
2018-02-27 19:09:07	red9	I think it's 52 bytes?
2018-02-27 19:09:29	Habbie	5 byte routing header
2018-02-27 19:09:30	Habbie	makes 53
2018-02-27 19:09:31	red9	Anyway is the payload limit in CAN really 8 bytes max per packet?
2018-02-27 19:09:46	Habbie	it looks that way on wikipedia for sure
2018-02-27 19:10:01	Habbie	'It is physically possible for a value between 9–15 to be transmitted in the 4-bit DLC, although the data is still limited to eight bytes. Certain controllers allow the transmission or reception of a DLC greater than eight, but the actual data length is always limited to eight bytes.'
2018-02-27 19:10:37	Habbie	i have trouble reading that sentence but i'm pretty sure the practical story is 'you have 8 bytes'
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2018-02-27 19:13:56	tristero	Habbie: ATM was strongly influenced by the Cambridge Ring network, which used 32-byte packets
2018-02-27 19:14:16	gordonDrogon	we used a CAN bus many years ago as a comms and control system for a supercomputer. we even had a CAN router to address 1000's of nodes.
2018-02-27 19:14:16	Mathuin	ATM's super-small size was part of guaranteeing throughupt I think, but I don't recall the details.
2018-02-27 19:14:29	Habbie	Mathuin, low latency and jitter for voice, yes
2018-02-27 19:14:33	Habbie	Mathuin, it totally makes sense -for that-
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2018-02-27 19:15:59	red9	Mathuin, small packet size = low latency through the system.
2018-02-27 19:16:48	red9	The price is throughout. But for audio/video latency is more important. I think the audiable limit for telephony is 100 ms.
2018-02-27 19:18:25	akk	Anyone used a pimoroni hyperpixel 3.5" display? Does the touchscreen work with stretch?
2018-02-27 19:18:41	MacGeek	CAN is mostly used in the automotive world, they need low latency too, and they don't need to move that much data
2018-02-27 19:18:42	akk	https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/hyperpixel
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2018-02-27 19:24:50	red9	MacGeek, This is more about using what is. To go any serious physical distance differential signaling and automated serializer is needed. CAN is what's offered. It's not the best but it can do.
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2018-02-27 19:25:50	shauno	I've seen CAN used in a few industrial gizzits where you'd normally expect modbus or something
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2018-02-27 19:29:41	s77	have you guys found any Z-wave socket plugs that  has a operating temperature below 0 degrees ?
2018-02-27 19:29:47	s77	0 celcius*
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2018-02-27 19:31:41	red9	is that signaling over mains cables or through the air?
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2018-02-27 19:34:49	shauno	z-wave is wireless
2018-02-27 19:35:14	s77	home automation  wireless equipment
2018-02-27 19:35:33	shauno	it's also one of the annoying ones that doesn't use the same band worldwide :(
2018-02-27 19:35:40	red9	In general you can probably get away with sub-zero temperatures. I think it's about chip package cracking.
2018-02-27 19:36:06	red9	shaouno, which ones does?
2018-02-27 19:36:23	s77	ok
2018-02-27 19:36:42	red9	What sub-zero temperatures are we talking?
2018-02-27 19:36:45	shauno	z-wave.  it's using the 900MHz ism band, so it's .. 910MHz in the US and 870MHz in europe?  and different in japan, and different in australia, etc
2018-02-27 19:37:12	s77	It was meant for use at a cabin where it can be -20 C.   Hopefully the heater will trigger way before that :9
2018-02-27 19:38:15	red9	s77, I visit climate zones where -25 is common during the winter. And iPhones supposedly can't handle it according to spec. But they do.
2018-02-27 19:38:36	red9	LCD's may become really sluggish though.
2018-02-27 19:38:47	red9	(tested with a laptop..)
2018-02-27 19:38:59	s77	Ye red9
2018-02-27 19:39:03	shauno	the other thing to watch for is that what's cold depends on whether it's already running or not
2018-02-27 19:39:20	Habbie	shauno, also because cold + not running = condensation, right?
2018-02-27 19:39:36	s77	condensation may occur
2018-02-27 19:39:42	shauno	I think you can get condensation either way
2018-02-27 19:39:46	red9	cold device into a hot environment = condensation.
2018-02-27 19:39:53	Habbie	well sure, temperature changes are bad
2018-02-27 19:40:00	MacGeek	I once had a car with a LCD screen in the dash that would become hilariously slow to refresh in sub-zero (C°) temps
2018-02-27 19:40:01	shauno	it's just less thermally stressy to go from running at 5 to running at -10.  than to be at ambient and then heat yourself up
2018-02-27 19:40:09	MacGeek	like close to a full second
2018-02-27 19:41:00	<--	daynaskully (~dskull@unaffiliated/daynaskully) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2018-02-27 19:41:44	red9	Anyone know why individual chips are specified to say "no lower than -20 'C" ?
2018-02-27 19:42:03	<--	fhdrin (~fhdrin@136.0.16.230) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2018-02-27 19:43:44	Habbie	one theory, of course, is 'anything to limit liability'
2018-02-27 19:43:54	red9	$$ ;-)
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2018-02-27 19:46:41	shauno	honestly, I think it's just so they can sell the same thing in a ceramic package, with a wider range and call it milspec
2018-02-27 19:46:43	red9	"You may not build nuke-celar reactors, aeroplanes, space stations, life critical hospital equipment" etc.. ;)
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2018-02-27 19:47:01	shauno	ah yes.  you're not allowed to use itunes to operate a nuclear reactor
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2018-02-27 19:47:15	red9	now I'm dissapointed.. ;)
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2018-02-27 19:49:32	gordonDrogon	there are some oscillators that don't start reliably when very cold.
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2018-02-27 19:50:16	stiv	like the ones in curly lightbulbs
2018-02-27 19:50:29	gordonDrogon	I worked with some people doing high frequency/high speed comms and their radios didn't start reliably below about -30C. They had to be turned on, left a while then rebooted...
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2018-02-27 19:51:12	BCMM	i have a significantly less cool story
2018-02-27 19:51:13	shauno	do ovens help with that?  or is that just for stability
2018-02-27 19:51:24	shauno	er, xtal ovens, not bread ovens
2018-02-27 19:51:28	gordonDrogon	:)
2018-02-27 19:51:53	gordonDrogon	I've no idea what they did in the end - I think the wait & power cycle the oscillator was what they did.. this was ~60GHz comms.
2018-02-27 19:51:56	BCMM	i had a motherboard with a dodgy CPU temperature sensor. below about 16 degrees, it would freak out and measure like 100+ degrees
2018-02-27 19:52:23	gordonDrogon	and speaking of bread ovens - I've got to go & make some.
2018-02-27 19:52:25	red9	BCMM, and the solution?
2018-02-27 19:52:27	shauno	ouch.  below 16 degrees is a large portion of the year here
2018-02-27 19:52:27	BCMM	and then instantly shut down to protect itself
2018-02-27 19:52:33	Habbie	shauno, inside?
2018-02-27 19:52:42	shauno	Habbie, for a long time yes
2018-02-27 19:52:48	Habbie	BCMM, thus ruling out any chance of warming up enough
2018-02-27 19:52:53	Habbie	shauno, ah
2018-02-27 19:52:55	BCMM	red9: oh same as the gordonDrogon's radio - in cold weather, i had to reboot it a few times before it would come up properly
2018-02-27 19:53:01	shauno	I kept putting off calling the landlord.  one day I went potty and it had a sheen of ice on it, and I decided I had to pretend to be grownup
2018-02-27 19:53:09	Habbie	heh
2018-02-27 19:53:17	BCMM	it took a few seconds to boot up enough to check the temperature i think?
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2018-02-27 19:53:21	shauno	(so I stripped the pump.  I still never called the landlord)
2018-02-27 19:53:23	red9	shauno, the "oven" is really raised temperature. The reason is that stable temperature at a specific temperature is more important than low temperature.
2018-02-27 19:53:54	shauno	yeah, I get that bit.  just wasn't sure if it'd help them start in the first place
2018-02-27 19:53:57	<--	afen (illuminati@188.113.67.142) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2018-02-27 19:54:19	shauno	(oven wants to heat to find a stable temperature because cooling to a stable temperature is complimacated)
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2018-02-27 20:05:26	red9	How is ADSL modem IPv6 support currently?
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2018-02-27 20:08:58	shauno	that's .. a piece of string, really
2018-02-27 20:09:28	Habbie	modems -should- be a piece of string
2018-02-27 20:09:32	Habbie	but they're not
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2018-02-27 20:10:51	shauno	I more meant infinitely variable.  like "how long is a peice of string"
2018-02-27 20:11:01	Habbie	agreed
2018-02-27 20:12:02	Habbie	and i mean v6 support should not be a modem question
2018-02-27 20:12:05	Habbie	it should be a router question
2018-02-27 20:12:36	choscura	lol, how many people know the difference
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2018-02-27 20:12:50	shauno	not my ISP, unfortunately
2018-02-27 20:12:50	Habbie	choscura, indeed :(
2018-02-27 20:13:49	choscura	and, who's trying to cool a CPU?
2018-02-27 20:13:57	choscura	have you tried mineral oil yet?
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2018-02-27 20:14:11	shauno	my ISP's incompetence is their selling point.  all the stuff they tried to remove from their modem/route combo, is just commented out.  so you can just Inspect in any webkit browser and put it back
2018-02-27 20:14:19	Habbie	heh
2018-02-27 20:14:26	shauno	I wish I was kidding
2018-02-27 20:14:26	Habbie	this does not surprise me
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2018-02-27 20:15:18	choscura	you need to have a clean PCB and may need to wash it, but a small aquarium pump, a tub of mineral oil (you can buy it cheaply by the gallon at paint stores, iirc?), and the whole thing in a freezer is a very compact way to have supercomputing
2018-02-27 20:15:33	<--	kingarmadillo (~kingarmad@38.104.254.34) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2018-02-27 20:15:33	choscura	and, damn, I'm going to webkit my comcasshole modem
2018-02-27 20:15:34	shauno	there's also a fun catch where if you put their router in modem-only mode, and then connect devices to each ethernet port .. they all get public IPs
2018-02-27 20:16:02	choscura	LOL
2018-02-27 20:16:05	shauno	by webkit I just mean chrome/safari.  I don't know if firefox let you edit the source live
2018-02-27 20:16:10	Habbie	my DSL ISP used to do that up to three IPs
2018-02-27 20:16:15	Habbie	so i connected two devices
2018-02-27 20:16:19	choscura	firebug does, I think
2018-02-27 20:16:20	Habbie	suddenly they stopped
2018-02-27 20:16:22	shauno	modem-only is the feature they commented out, fwiw
2018-02-27 20:16:28	Habbie	now they give both devices the same IP
2018-02-27 20:16:31	Habbie	.. my wife was not happy
2018-02-27 20:16:41	choscura	LOL
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2018-02-27 20:16:50	choscura	"fix it NOW"
2018-02-27 20:17:05	choscura	"you're interrupting Carl's execution you asshole"
2018-02-27 20:17:27	Habbie	choscura, can you skip the potty again please? :)
2018-02-27 20:17:43	shauno	it was really useful for me, because I was doing the whole ccna thing to shut someone up.  so I have a "giant pile of family-friendly equipment".
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2018-02-27 20:17:57	choscura	argh, sorry about that Habbie, it's a bad habit, I don't have circumstances where I need to filter it often.
2018-02-27 20:18:02	shauno	it was very useful being able to give my "lab" a public address without messing the rest of my network up
2018-02-27 20:18:07	Habbie	choscura, i do understand
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2018-02-27 20:18:15	Habbie	shauno, yeah that is helpful
2018-02-27 20:18:27	choscura	grazie Habbie
2018-02-27 20:18:40	shauno	unrelated: it's very difficult to even give away said pile of equipment
2018-02-27 20:18:55	Habbie	i recently removed a server from a data center
2018-02-27 20:18:58	Habbie	looked at selling it
2018-02-27 20:18:59	Habbie	'15 bucks'
2018-02-27 20:19:06	Habbie	so i spoke to a friend who runs a DC
2018-02-27 20:19:07	shauno	yeah, there's a 1950 in the pile
2018-02-27 20:19:14	Habbie	'15 bucks? yes that is what we pay to -get rid of them-'
2018-02-27 20:19:26	shauno	the local hackerspace were interested, until I told them I didn't have a car, so someone would have to pick it up
2018-02-27 20:19:42	Habbie	shauno, R200 here, same ballpark i think
2018-02-27 20:19:53	Habbie	shauno, maybe worse even
2018-02-27 20:19:58	shauno	that was literally my only condition.  no price, just make it go away.  I can't carry 16U of anything on my bicycle
2018-02-27 20:20:12	shauno	so it's still under my desk
2018-02-27 20:20:14	Habbie	i've dumbly tried 1U stuff on my bike
2018-02-27 20:20:31	Habbie	i put some serious bends and dents in a switch that day
2018-02-27 20:21:35	shauno	I think if I took all the ears off, put them in a bag, I'd have more luck selling them that any of the actual equipment
2018-02-27 20:21:44	Habbie	yup
2018-02-27 20:21:48	Habbie	it's all worthless
2018-02-27 20:23:12	choscura	no, it's got lots of great material in it
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2018-02-27 20:23:19	choscura	it's just not useful as networking equipment
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2018-02-27 20:24:49	shauno	oh I didn't expect it to be useful.  I thought someone could noodle around on it
2018-02-27 20:25:26	Habbie	if they don't pay for power
2018-02-27 20:25:47	--	choscura is now known as JewZeus
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2018-02-27 20:40:43	shauno	well that's why I went after the hackerspace :)
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2018-02-27 20:42:19	JewZeus	shauno, noodle around on the hardware with oscilliscope/etc
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2018-02-27 20:45:51	red9	BMMC, still around?
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2018-02-27 20:51:27	BCMM	red9: hi
2018-02-27 20:51:44	BCMM	red9: you can use tab completion on any decent irc client to ensure i actually get pinged
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2018-02-27 20:56:19	--	JewZeus is now known as choscura
2018-02-27 20:56:19	red9	BCMM, How did you solve that server temperature sensor wrapping around?
2018-02-27 20:56:37	BCMM	red9: oh, i said earlier - just had to turn it on a few times
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2018-02-27 20:56:54	BCMM	i think it POSTed before it started checking temperatures or something?
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2018-02-27 20:57:05	BCMM	anyway it generated enough heat to start behaving without 2-3 power cycles
2018-02-27 20:57:12	BCMM	that's why the radio story reminded me of it
2018-02-27 20:58:27	BCMM	(that was back in the days when it was the mobo firmware rather that the cpu that provided thermal protection. these days i hear you can run a cpu with no heatsink and it will throttle so well that it just runs slow, but back then you could kill them like that)
2018-02-27 20:58:50	BCMM	s/without/within/
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2018-02-27 21:13:21	Bitweasil	Why on earth is zswap not at least a module in the stock kernel builds? :/
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2018-02-27 21:14:07	Habbie	Bitweasil, hmm? linux has it but raspbian kernel does not include it?
2018-02-27 21:14:37	Bitweasil	correct
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2018-02-27 21:15:02	Habbie	i'm pretty sure there's some place on github you can go to ask for that
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2018-02-27 21:20:20	ST3NO	hi, i've installed Raspbian Stretch Lite on my rpi3, rpi is connected with wifi, but cant connect to intenet. With Raspbian Jessie i never had this problem
2018-02-27 21:21:25	<--	terminalator (terminalat@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/terminalator) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2018-02-27 21:22:00	Habbie	ST3NO, how do you know it is connected with wifi?
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2018-02-27 21:22:49	ST3NO	i can access to rpi from ssh lan
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2018-02-27 21:22:58	red9	Anyone has the channel log for today=
2018-02-27 21:23:00	red9	?
2018-02-27 21:23:09	Habbie	red9, i do, what do you need?
2018-02-27 21:23:11	<--	nsk_nyc (~nsk_nyc@179.63.254.74) has quit (Quit: I'll be back...)
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2018-02-27 21:23:36	red9	all written in the channel for this day?
2018-02-27 21:23:49	Habbie	i have that
2018-02-27 21:23:51	Habbie	what do you need?
2018-02-27 21:24:13	-->	choscura (~choscuru@2601:601:9200:18a3::da02) has joined #raspberrypi
2018-02-27 21:24:16	red9	dcc?
2018-02-27 21:24:31	red9	 /dcc send red9 channel_log.txt
2018-02-27 21:24:33	<--	__builtin (~xray@rockbox/developer/builtin) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2018-02-27 21:25:15	ST3NO	now i've reinstalled and lan dont work too
2018-02-27 21:25:23	<--	sdoherty (sdoherty@nat/redhat/x-pwvrecxjvtqanofj) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2018-02-27 21:25:25	Habbie	red9, http://termbin.com/i63d
2018-02-27 21:25:25	ST3NO	i cant ping router D:
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2018-02-27 21:25:54	choscura	VLC firetrucked itself
2018-02-27 21:26:06	choscura	even on an overclocked pi, you can't do a lot at once
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2018-02-27 21:26:08	ST3NO	i followed the official guide for setup wifi
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2018-02-27 21:26:26	choscura	ST3NO, what system os?
2018-02-27 21:26:28	choscura	raspbian?
2018-02-27 21:26:34	red9	thanks!
2018-02-27 21:26:41	choscura	pi 3? pi 0? other?
2018-02-27 21:27:06	ST3NO	raspbian stretch on rpi3
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2018-02-27 21:29:51	ST3NO	update: lan access ssh but rpi3 still cant ping router
2018-02-27 21:31:27	red9	BCMM, Thing is we have like 5 rack servers outdoors in a shed and it works. But.. the temperature sensors doesn't seem to handle negative motherboard temperatures etc very well. So DIMM memory shows up as being 127 'C hot etc..
2018-02-27 21:32:30	BCMM	red9: oh god, you don't actually mean negative degree C do you?
2018-02-27 21:32:42	red9	oh yes.
2018-02-27 21:33:12	<--	rwb (~Thunderbi@74.85.159.242) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2018-02-27 21:33:18	red9	Some sensors seem to flatline at specific temperatures which of course is not the physical reality.
2018-02-27 21:33:42	red9	When the servers suck in like -27 'C, you can bet they get cold.
2018-02-27 21:33:53	<--	toomin (~Slartibar@unaffiliated/toomin) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2018-02-27 21:34:03	BCMM	i mean i'm guessing what mine was doing was underflowing, and whatever scale the manufacturer used just didn't go down that far
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2018-02-27 21:34:24	BCMM	makes me envious of the weather they've got in tiawan!
2018-02-27 21:34:50	BCMM	red9: good grief, do you live in iceland?
2018-02-27 21:35:03	red9	My guess it's a 7-bit overflow phenomena but the harder task is calculating which the real temperature is from the presented one.
2018-02-27 21:35:30	red9	Currently north of the arctic line, though not on iceland.
2018-02-27 21:35:49	red9	tiawan?
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2018-02-27 21:36:29	BCMM	red9: i'm guessing that's the only place they ever tested my mobo's thermal sensors :)
2018-02-27 21:36:53	red9	When the temperature sensor reports 113 .. 127 .. 0 .. 4. It doesn't take much thinking to figure out it's an overflow issue.
2018-02-27 21:37:16	BCMM	turns out there's a minor downside to all silicon being designed and built in a subtropical environment i guess
2018-02-27 21:37:52	choscura	lol
2018-02-27 21:38:08	BCMM	well at least they put their 0 at 0...
2018-02-27 21:38:09	choscura	I'm actually ranting about this in another room and did a double take.
2018-02-27 21:38:50	red9	Here's a graph from one server: https://netmon.se/graph/16/kub-01/temperature?name=*&interval=43200
2018-02-27 21:39:10	choscura	so I've got this project to make "civilization" a thing you can mail order and receive in a box
2018-02-27 21:39:13	red9	Current outdoor temperature is -20.9 'C
2018-02-27 21:39:38	choscura	ie, if the world goes to hell and it's down to 10 somali 8-year-olds, I want them to have this box to start stuff with
2018-02-27 21:39:54	choscura	like, farming, production, etc.
2018-02-27 21:40:27	BCMM	choscura: heh, i thought this was going in a more sarcastic direction, and you were going to tell red9 about these things called "shelter" and "heating"
2018-02-27 21:40:47	BCMM	red9: actually lolled at that graph
2018-02-27 21:40:49	choscura	nah. I may have unpopular opinions and the personality of a blowtorch, but I'm not an actual troll.
2018-02-27 21:41:39	BCMM	choscura: anyway, this project sounds interesting
2018-02-27 21:42:02	BCMM	reminds me of that open-source simplified farm equipment thingy
2018-02-27 21:42:05	choscura	It sure eats up a lot of my time, lol.
2018-02-27 21:42:10	choscura	farming is only one aspect
2018-02-27 21:42:19	red9	BCMM, If you can figure out the real temperature for is0ch1dm0 which is currently showing 120 'C.
2018-02-27 21:42:23	choscura	there's power generation, sewage treatment, resource collection, on and on
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2018-02-27 21:42:32	red9	there would be some happy faces ;)
2018-02-27 21:42:32	choscura	housing
2018-02-27 21:42:47	choscura	like, zero-resource housing
2018-02-27 21:42:51	choscura	earthships++
2018-02-27 21:43:41	red9	Nuclear reactor + LED lights + electrolysis of water = independence.
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2018-02-27 21:44:28	red9	is0ch1dm0 = Sensor on ISA bus 0, Memory channel 1 DIMM 0
2018-02-27 21:44:38	BCMM	red9: seems pretty straightforwards unless i've missed something? it's just got a range of 0-127
2018-02-27 21:44:46	BCMM	so 127=-1
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2018-02-27 21:45:11	BCMM	119=-9
2018-02-27 21:45:13	BCMM	etc
2018-02-27 21:45:14	red9	So I'll expect is0ch1dm0 to be warmer than -20.9 'C but not 120 'C.
2018-02-27 21:45:51	red9	1-complementary or 2-complementary?
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2018-02-27 21:46:21	BCMM	pour lN2 on it, see if you can get down to -128 and wrap around again
2018-02-27 21:46:35	red9	How hot can memory chips be before "kaputt" ?
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2018-02-27 21:47:07	BCMM	red9: like, how physically hot before they catch fire? or how hot can they think they are before they failsafe?
2018-02-27 21:47:07	Bitweasil	Check the datasheet, I'd assume around 85C you'd have trouble with normal DRAM chips, industrial stuff might be spec'd up to 120C.
2018-02-27 21:47:18	Bitweasil	Well, they just leak faster when hot.
2018-02-27 21:47:22	red9	Thinking if it can be 2-complementary 7-bit number displayed as 7-bit unsigned?
2018-02-27 21:47:26	Bitweasil	So somewhere up around 80-90C I think you have to double the refresh rate on them.
2018-02-27 21:47:45	red9	How hot before the memory chip has to be replaced.
2018-02-27 21:48:07	red9	Ie reasonable useful range to measure.
2018-02-27 21:48:12	Bitweasil	Probably slightly after it starts to smoke?
2018-02-27 21:48:38	red9	It's a Dell PowerEdge 1950 I think.
2018-02-27 21:48:39	Bitweasil	I think +127C is probably below the destruction point, but is also a very reasonable upper limit on displayed temperatures.
2018-02-27 21:49:38	red9	Could +64 'C be a reasonable upper limit for display purposes?
2018-02-27 21:50:19	Bitweasil	I don't think so.  DRAM and CPUs are often hotter than that.
2018-02-27 21:50:27	Bitweasil	Recall the RPi3 throttles at 85C.
2018-02-27 21:52:14	red9	Could it be a skewed scale. Where the "0" line is moved a bit up into the positive side?
2018-02-27 21:54:37	red9	Ie normally a 8-bit 2-complementary goes -128 .. 0 .. 127. But one could move the scale and say have -32 .. 0 .. +96 ?
2018-02-27 21:55:17	Bitweasil	You /could/.  Are you complaining about values coming off the hardware, or how you store them?
2018-02-27 21:55:53	gordonDrogon	red9, 2s compliment single byte number has a range of -128 to +127
2018-02-27 21:55:59	red9	The values coming from the hardare (apt-get install lm-sensors) is showing completely wrong values.
2018-02-27 21:56:03		[Habbie away: bbl]
2018-02-27 21:56:21	Bitweasil	If they're completely wrong, then there's not an awful lot you can do about that.
2018-02-27 21:56:26	red9	I think this "byte" is 7-bit.
2018-02-27 21:56:31	gordonDrogon	this is not from a Pi, I presume?
2018-02-27 21:56:40	red9	gordonDrogon, nope
2018-02-27 21:56:54	red9	but it sure is data type maths..
2018-02-27 21:57:06	gordonDrogon	lm-sensors-detect might give you the actual chip type, but it's a while since I last looked at this stuff.
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2018-02-27 21:57:57	red9	I'll suspect the Dell PowerEdge BIOS mess up the data.
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2018-02-27 21:59:09	red9	How to figure out the sensor type?
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2018-02-27 22:05:08	red9	Seems the /sys/..*temp also gives bad answers.
2018-02-27 22:07:19	Bitweasil	gigo.
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2018-02-27 22:08:48	red9	regarding the previous problem with TCP stack not exit(1) on defunct connections. Supplying the keepalive option solved it.
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2018-02-27 22:14:38	BCMM	red9: it's not at all uncommon to run things at over 65 degrees
2018-02-27 22:14:55	taza_	BCMM did you experiment with signal strength?
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2018-02-27 22:15:07	BCMM	taza_: oh hey! i did,  but that wasn't the solution
2018-02-27 22:15:32	BCMM	taza_: once i remembered to turn advanced options on in kodi, it turns out that, by default, it sends very low-volume random noise over hdmi
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2018-02-27 22:16:12	BCMM	taza_: i mean, when nothing else is playing. i guess it's to prevent some types of dedicated DAC from going to sleep or something?
2018-02-27 22:16:25	taza_	Yeah, very likely
2018-02-27 22:16:50	BCMM	taza_: now kodi docs assure me that it's much too quiet to be audible, so i guess it's down to my TV's audio being silly
2018-02-27 22:17:03	taza_	EXTREME BASS BOOST
2018-02-27 22:17:10	BCMM	i guess so?
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2018-02-27 22:17:15	red9	Technology to defeat other technology which supposedly is a feature.. ;)
2018-02-27 22:17:29	BCMM	but what this sounded like was, every time the pi made a noise, like the little interface clicks out of kodi, it made weird noises for a few seconds afterwards
2018-02-27 22:17:35	taza_	FEatures on features on featuresa
2018-02-27 22:17:57	BCMM	taza_: which happens to sound *exactly* like i imagine the noise of a CPU throttling back it's frequency after it stops doing something would sound like
2018-02-27 22:18:16	BCMM	red9: i think that's what the internet is tbh
2018-02-27 22:18:37	BCMM	taza_: my guess is that the TV has some cleverstupid auto-volume leveling feature?
2018-02-27 22:18:48	red9	Living room internet over HDMI .. ;)
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2018-02-27 22:18:50	BCMM	so it was trying to amplify the "inaudible" random noise
2018-02-27 22:19:39	BCMM	taza_: so hdmi voltage was a red herring, but thanks for linking me to the config.txt options for video because i worked out how to set my TV to native resolution by reading that link
2018-02-27 22:19:53	BCMM	(so at least i'm not scaling video *twice* now)
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2018-02-27 22:20:05	red9	Technology to defeat other technology features that still other technology features succeed in messing up.. royally ;)
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2018-02-27 22:20:51	red9	Which would not happen if 2'nd technology would allow itself to be user selectable. By .. eh standard protocol.
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2018-02-27 22:24:15	DrunkenDwarf	Hi all. Are there any examples/tutorials on streaming webcam video from a pi to a web straming service, rather than hosting the webserver on the pi?
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2018-02-27 22:25:20	red9	I think google is the opening move to solve that.
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2018-02-27 22:26:02	DrunkenDwarf	red9, I never come here with questions until my google-fu has first failed me
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2018-02-27 22:27:29	red9	I think few people will know about that. So the key would be better google-fu, ie keywords. Something that might be worthwhile is rtmp protocol perhaps?
2018-02-27 22:28:38	red9	Something like this:  camera-pi -- compressed video --> pc -"client that really is just a realtime proxy/replicator --> client(s)
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2018-02-27 22:29:42	red9	try: video realtime mirror replicator client h264 ?
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2018-02-27 22:32:11	red9	re temperature: If ordinary scale by math of a 7-bit complementary number is -64 .. -1 .. 0 .. 63. By what value would it be reasonable to skew it to get normal temperatures in that 7-bit window ?
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2018-02-27 23:08:01	red9	I think I have a solution for the magnled Dell temperature sensor(s). As long as the temperature is 0-99 it's 1:1. In all other cases it's temperature = temperature - 128;
2018-02-27 23:08:13	red9	seems reasonable?
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2018-02-27 23:15:52	Bitweasil	yup.
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2018-02-28 00:36:47	puff	Good evening.
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2018-02-28 00:42:32	clickboom	evening
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2018-02-28 00:55:34	puff	I'm trying to get this rpi zero w and pi camera board v2 streaming.
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2018-02-28 00:57:57	puff	I got it working with motion, but it's slow as hell, like 3-5 seconds per frame.  Trying to just stream it with  raspivid and vlc as both server and cleint.
2018-02-28 00:58:08	puff	That is, vlc server on the rpi zero w, vlc client on my laptop.
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2018-02-28 01:00:06	clickboom	i don't do graphics on my pi, sorry.
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2018-02-28 01:01:54	puff	This is driving me a little batty, this seems like such a typical thing to do with a pi, why is this so hard?
2018-02-28 01:03:23	ShorTie	cut the resolution back some maybe ??
2018-02-28 01:03:46	larsks	I've had good luck streaming using 'nc' as the transport, and ffmepg + mplayer on the receiving end. Like this: https://gist.github.com/larsks/fc0578def4beddd45ee1263c06df51e3
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2018-02-28 01:04:39	larsks	puff: that has very little latency. Every solution I tried with vlc on the receiving side had obvious latency between something happening and it actually showing up in vlc.
2018-02-28 01:05:02	larsks	(just fixed a port number in that gist)
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2018-02-28 01:06:19	larsks	This works very well for me at higher resolutions, too: e.g., 800x600, or even 1024x768.
2018-02-28 01:08:03	puff	larsks: Thanks.
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2018-02-28 01:09:40	puff	larsks: Ah, so that's initiating the tcp/ip connection from the pi side.
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2018-02-28 01:10:22	larsks	Right.  YOu could do it the other way around, too.
2018-02-28 01:10:26	larsks	(run nc -l on the pi)
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2018-02-28 01:12:45	puff	https://gist.github.com/anonymous/21ecfa0ae1ce01726979493404ffdd54
2018-02-28 01:13:09	puff	I'm getting this error, line 132 there: [b3a00510] core input warning: cannot create a stream_t from access
2018-02-28 01:13:20	puff	I *think* that's important, certainly on the pi it's in a different color
2018-02-28 01:13:30	larsks	puff: more importantly, it seems you're getting an error from raspivid? mmal: Failed to run camera app. Please check for firmware updates
2018-02-28 01:14:12	puff	Ah, right.
2018-02-28 01:14:25	puff	Weird, it runs fine with motion.
2018-02-28 01:14:34	larsks	Do you have motion running right now?
2018-02-28 01:14:38	larsks	E.g., maybe it owns the camera device?
2018-02-28 01:15:14	puff	No, I shut it down iwth "service motion stop"
2018-02-28 01:15:25	puff	Though yeah, I could see that happening.
2018-02-28 01:16:22	puff	Hm, maybe not, ps -ef | fgrep -i motion shows two meyectl processes and:  root      1259   290  3 00:56 ?        00:00:44 /usr/bin/motion -n -c /etc/motioneye/motion.conf -d 5
2018-02-28 01:16:31	puff	I could kill it, I guess?
2018-02-28 01:16:35	larsks	I think you've found your problem.
2018-02-28 01:16:51	larsks	Yeah, killing it should work.
2018-02-28 01:16:57	puff	I'll try this first: meyectl stopserver
2018-02-28 01:17:13	puff	Annoying, it says "server is not running"
2018-02-28 01:17:15	puff	time for kill.
2018-02-28 01:19:32	puff	Hm, something keeps restarting motion.  Looks like I need to kill meyectl too.
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2018-02-28 01:20:30	puff	Crap, killed all three processes and something restarted them.
2018-02-28 01:20:34	puff	Guess I can just delete motion.
2018-02-28 01:20:38	puff	er, uninstall it.
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2018-02-28 01:23:45	larsks	puff: uninstalling works :). If any of those services were started from  a systemd unit, then that may be what is restarting them (systemctl list-units | grep motion).
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2018-02-28 01:25:56	puff	larsks: Yeah, they were.  I tried using sysctl to stop it but it gave me an error.
2018-02-28 01:26:06	puff	Er, systemctl.
2018-02-28 01:26:11	larsks	What was the error?
2018-02-28 01:28:59	puff	Yay, that fixed something.  I'm getting a video stream now.  Really weird video,b ut something :-)
2018-02-28 01:29:49	puff	Can't find it in the log now.
2018-02-28 01:31:16	puff	Still a second or two of lag, but better.
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2018-02-28 01:34:23	ball	Just fact checking myself before I post something to Facebook: on a 1B do Ethernet and SDHC both hang from the same USB controller (in the SoC)?
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2018-02-28 01:39:20	puff	larsks: Thanks.
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2018-02-28 01:42:23	puff	It still has a lag of several seconds, but has a much better frame rate.  Makes me wonder what was up with motion/motioneye.  I've seen some old forum post (2013) talking about some special version of "motion MMAL" for use with pi.  Maybe I should tr that.
2018-02-28 01:43:22	puff	This looks kinda neat: https://www.linux-projects.org/rpi-videoconference-demo-os/
2018-02-28 01:43:29	puff	But not on point to my needs.
2018-02-28 01:44:09	puff	That was linked from here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=179799
2018-02-28 01:44:19	puff	Which was claiming very low latency with webrtc.
2018-02-28 01:46:04	puff	Hm: https://www.packtpub.com/mapt/book/networking_and_servers/9781783985692/7/ch07lvl1sec50/installing-webrtc
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2018-02-28 01:53:15	puff	...except that link refers to a package that isn't in the pi repos.
2018-02-28 01:53:18	puff	raspbian repos.
2018-02-28 01:56:27	larsks	puff: the uv4l stuff comes from here: https://www.linux-projects.org/uv4l/installation/
2018-02-28 01:57:01	puff	aha
2018-02-28 01:57:13	puff	larsks: Thanks.
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2018-02-28 02:14:05	puff	larsks: Ah, hm... interesting.  Have to do more with this, there's a tutorial for "desktop streaming" but I tried just uv4l-server and using the web UI at pi:8080 to watch the mjpeg stream, and it's back to really poor resolution and slow frames.
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2018-02-28 03:02:18	grym	i'm provisioning a headless rpi zero w and i've found conflicting information on where to put `wpa_supplicant.conf`: does it belong in `/boot/`?  I would've thought it goes in `/etc/wpa_supplicant` ...
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2018-02-28 03:05:55	ball	grym: For which OS?
2018-02-28 03:09:33	grym	ball: raspbian stretch lite
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2018-02-28 03:12:34	ball	Ah ok.  Thanks.
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2018-02-28 03:44:35	larsks	grym: it ultimately goes into /etc/wpa_supplicant.  There are some facilities for copying things out of /boot (since /boot is often a FAT filesystem so can be mounted on windows/macos, while the root filesystem cannot).
2018-02-28 03:45:01	larsks	See /usr/lib/systemd/system/raspberrypi-net-mods.service
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2018-02-28 05:44:32	Azrael_-	hi
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2018-02-28 05:47:45	Azrael_-	i want to use a raspi to intercept the video of the graphics card of my computer. the normal computer-usage should be still possible, i just want to be able to pull images of the current video-output. even text-only would be sufficient as it will be only bios/boot-output. can you give me a hint how to accomplish this?
2018-02-28 05:49:03	--	r0Oter is now known as r00ter
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2018-02-28 06:06:02	Rukus	my guess, you would require an addon board
2018-02-28 06:06:25	Rukus	but i dont lurk here to teach, :P
2018-02-28 06:08:31	Azrael_-	perhaps another (more common) topic: if i wanted to connect a raspi zero to a wlan, do i need additional hardware? (at best no usb-stick)
2018-02-28 06:10:35	Rukus	isn't this something you can learn by looking up specs of the raspi zero ?
2018-02-28 06:11:37	Rukus	anyway, there is a Raspberry Pi Zero W
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2018-02-28 06:12:45	Azrael_-	i'm a total starter and want to check some constraints before buying the hardware. according to the pi zero specs normally there is no wlan integrated
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2018-02-28 06:20:02	baldengineer	connecting wifi isn't an issue. capturing "video off the graphics card" is far less trivial
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2018-02-28 06:20:06	baldengineer	and not really a "pi" project
2018-02-28 06:20:25	baldengineer	might be better to just get a capture card
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2018-02-28 06:34:00	Ether_Man	Hey. Does the pin type of the gpio header have a name or something? Trying to find something nice to use as a connector on the raspi side. What do you guys use if you want something non permanent? Or well, it's going to be somewhat permanent but would like to be able to take it apart and such without soldering or anything like that.
2018-02-28 06:37:08	Ether_Man	I'm thinking of https://www.kjell.com/se/sortiment/el-verktyg/arduino/tillbehor/luxorparts-delbar-kopplingskabel-40-pol-hona-hona-p87906 and just cutting one side off but that's the closest I've found but seems a bit of a waste to buy cables with connectors on both ends, only to cut it in half so I have like 80 contacts, when I only need like 10 >_<
2018-02-28 06:38:14	baldengineer	its a 0.1in or 100 mil or 2.54mm 40 pin connector
2018-02-28 06:38:59	baldengineer	an older ide ribbon cable might work well (pre-ATAPI)
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2018-02-28 06:40:28	Ether_Man	baldengineer, and how do I keep track of which cable goes to what pin with that? ^_^;
2018-02-28 06:40:46	baldengineer	pin 1 on one side is pin 1 on the other
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2018-02-28 06:42:35	Ether_Man	Right, but I'm not looking to use the other end of such a cable since I need the different pins to go to different places.
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2018-02-28 06:42:42	choscura	whoever said diets suck has never experienced spinach and bacon
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2018-02-28 07:37:08	Ether_Man	Yay, I found the real name. C-Grid III :)   lovely, much easier to find proper connectors now :)
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2018-02-28 08:07:28	Ether_Man	Urg. Nothing that works with a wire gauge that also works with the connector I need at the other end so still have to splice the cables in half >_<
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2018-02-28 12:06:08	allure	with noobs, my rpi zero w is turning off the display all the time... I tried setting xset s noblank, xset s off, xset -dpms in ~/.config/lxsession/LXDE-pi/autostart but it won't work
2018-02-28 12:07:18	HrdwrBoB	https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57552
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2018-02-28 12:15:17	allure	thanks HrdwrBoB , I will try that
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2018-02-28 12:23:53	allure	HrdwrBoB: it actually describes all I have used already, but thank you anyway
2018-02-28 12:26:39	allure	I will use xdotool w/ crontab... seems the only way to make sure it works
2018-02-28 12:26:41	allure	:)
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2018-02-28 15:32:53	inc0gn1t0	Is pi Zero W not capable of using a usb WiFi dongle? Everytime I plug it in, it causes the pi to instantly reboot. Same thing would happen when I used a usb hub (non powered), but thought the issue was only relative to that because it drew too much power. Is it just the same for any powered device you attempt to connect?
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2018-02-28 15:34:42	shiftplusone	The zero is able to use the same USB devices as a regular pi can
2018-02-28 15:36:28	akk	I had a powered USB hub that would make the 0w reboot when I switched the power on. Something the hub was doing, I guess.
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2018-02-28 15:43:19	shiftplusone	Yeahh, probably inrush current when the caps get filled and all that. I guess the zero doesn't have a current limiter for the USB side like the regular pi does.
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2018-02-28 16:04:10	inc0gn1t0	So unless it's connected at boot, I'll continue having that problem?
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2018-02-28 16:05:35	shiftplusone	or use a powered hub
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2018-02-28 16:06:53	snowcatman	hello, latest raspian install. did apt-get to get php and apache2 did a apt-get distro upgrade. loaded my http php files. i am trying to get pigpoid to start on boot i have used "sudo systemctl start pigpiod" and "sudo systemct1 start pigpoid.servic" and when i reboot the apache logs keep telling me socket connect failed. can i get some help here thank you.
2018-02-28 16:07:00	inc0gn1t0	It's headless, so won't need a hub, it was just during initial setup, I had switched the keyboard with the WiFi dongle so I was curious. But ty
2018-02-28 16:09:16	shiftplusone	snowcatman: sudo systemctl enable pigpiod
2018-02-28 16:09:34	inc0gn1t0	Another question, when I ssh in through usb tether, shouldn't I still be able to use the wireless card on pi? Example: I'm ssh'd in, open vnc through the ssh tunnel, I click the network manager, a weird system auth pops up, then session crashes.
2018-02-28 16:09:34	snowcatman	i'll try that
2018-02-28 16:10:19	inc0gn1t0	Doesn't usb tether act like Ethernet tho?
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2018-02-28 16:12:34	shiftplusone	could you describe the problem more clearly? It should work, but I am lost at 'click the network manager...'
2018-02-28 16:16:03	inc0gn1t0	Sorry, when I have vnc and I click the little wireless icon in the corner, the one that lets you connect to wifi
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2018-02-28 16:17:31	shiftplusone	and then? I'm not aware of any weird system auth that should be popping up. And how does the session crash? It just disconnects you?
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2018-02-28 16:18:07	snowcatman	well that didnt work. "sudo systemict1 enable pigpiod" i entered that and it went to next line and i rebooted. and tested the web page nothing happened so  i looked at the apache2 log and got the same error "socket connect failed". what hould i check on next?
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2018-02-28 16:18:28	larsks	snowcatman: is pigpiod actually running?
2018-02-28 16:18:46	shiftplusone	it might be starting after apache
2018-02-28 16:18:55	snowcatman	don't know how do i tell?
2018-02-28 16:19:07	larsks	snowcatman: well, you could start with ps -fe | grep pigpiod
2018-02-28 16:19:13	larsks	Or "systemctl status pigpiod"
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2018-02-28 16:19:31	inc0gn1t0	It says something about "system is attempting to make changes blah blah blah (can't remember exactly).." And then yes, it disconnects me. Before even connecting to another ap
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2018-02-28 16:20:39	inc0gn1t0	I can't even type my password in the auth popup before it crashes. It's like as soon as I click on the popup window to enter a password, I'm disconnected
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2018-02-28 16:21:53	shiftplusone	Did you ass a new user or is this 'pi' ?
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2018-02-28 16:22:37	snowcatman	larsks: that systemct1 command say's its running
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2018-02-28 16:24:22	inc0gn1t0	shiftplusone: what do you mean did I "ass a new user"? And the username is "pi", yes. Default
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2018-02-28 16:24:39	larsks	snowcatman: interesting, I think I can reproduce the problem.  If you run "pigs t", do you get the same "socket connect failed" error?
2018-02-28 16:24:46	shiftplusone	heh.... meant 'add' >_<
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2018-02-28 16:25:21	shiftplusone	no idea then
2018-02-28 16:25:43	larsks	shiftplusone: I think I've spotted the problem, if you can confirm the behavior I was asking about...
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2018-02-28 16:26:14	snowcatman	larsks: yes i get the same socket connect failed" error on that pigs t command
2018-02-28 16:26:26	larsks	Awesome. Give me just a second to read through the docs.
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2018-02-28 16:28:26	shiftplusone	larsks: hmm? what do I need to confirm?
2018-02-28 16:28:43	larsks	shiftplusone: sorry, bad nick completion. That was for snowcatman .
2018-02-28 16:29:11	shiftplusone	ah
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2018-02-28 16:30:05	larsks	snowcatman: so, I think this is the issue: pigpiod is listening on a local socket on port 8888. Unforunately, it is only listening on the ipv6 localhost address (::1) and *not* the ipv4 address (127.0.0.1).  The "pigs" command defaults to trying 127.0.0.1.
2018-02-28 16:30:12	larsks	snowcatman: try running this and tell me if it works:
2018-02-28 16:30:16	larsks	PIGPIO_ADDR=localhost pigs t
2018-02-28 16:30:37	-->	vstehle (~vstehle@rqp06-1-88-178-86-202.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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2018-02-28 16:30:58	snowcatman	it give me a long set of numbers
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2018-02-28 16:31:21	snowcatman	not an ip address eather
2018-02-28 16:31:24	larsks	Great, that means it worked.  So the solution here is to get that PIGPIO_ADDR environment variable set in the context of your web server.
2018-02-28 16:31:39	larsks	You're using Apache, right?
2018-02-28 16:31:51	snowcatman	yes i am using apache2
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2018-02-28 16:34:11	larsks	There are a couple ways of solving this.  Let me just get apache installed on my pi.
2018-02-28 16:34:25	snowcatman	ok
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2018-02-28 16:39:14	larsks	snowcatman: ok, let's try this.  https://gist.github.com/larsks/b45f359215590ccce23cb068d5514b9d
2018-02-28 16:39:23	larsks	(all commands as root)
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2018-02-28 16:46:24	MacGeek	just read about the current issue of MagPi being recalled
2018-02-28 16:46:32	MacGeek	has it happened in the past before?
2018-02-28 16:46:36	MacGeek	or is it the first time?
2018-02-28 16:46:43	larsks	MacGeek: why was it recalled?
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2018-02-28 16:46:53	MacGeek	larsks: https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/important-magpi-67/
2018-02-28 16:47:07	MacGeek	apparently the wifi desk lamp tutorial was not electrically safe
2018-02-28 16:47:38	larsks	Huh. Interesting.
2018-02-28 16:48:35	snowcatman	bash: /etc/systemd/system/apache2.service.d/pigpio.conf: Permission denied got this error
2018-02-28 16:48:46	larsks	snowcatman: in response to which command? Were you running as 'root'?
2018-02-28 16:49:06	shiftplusone	MacGeek: first time
2018-02-28 16:49:11	snowcatman	no was not at root been sudo before the command cat
2018-02-28 16:49:26	larsks	snowcatman: you can't do i/o redirection (> /some/file) with sudo.
2018-02-28 16:49:36	larsks	WHen I said "all commands as root", I meant it :)
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2018-02-28 16:49:48	snowcatman	ok i will go root
2018-02-28 16:49:52	larsks	(well, you *can*, but not like you think)
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2018-02-28 16:50:38	shiftplusone	The article was about connecting a relay to switch mains, without much caution.
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2018-02-28 16:50:59	Bitweasil	What could go wrong? :p
2018-02-28 16:51:17	grym	shiftplusone: ever heard of an etherkiller
2018-02-28 16:51:19	grym	:D
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2018-02-28 16:51:55	Bitweasil	A WiFi Desk Lamp is... low on my list of things I would say I need.
2018-02-28 16:52:05	Bitweasil	Also, wtf using a full RPi for that.  An Arduino is a better option.
2018-02-28 16:52:10	shiftplusone	jeebus.... just looked up what an etherkiller is
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2018-02-28 16:52:22	larsks	Bitweasil: an esp8266 is even better! And it runs Python! :)
2018-02-28 16:52:35	shiftplusone	but... a zero is cheaper.
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2018-02-28 16:52:44	Bitweasil	Yeah, I mostly use those as the wireless chips on a stock 328 based Arduino, but you could do it with one of those as a standalone device too.
2018-02-28 16:52:45	MacGeek	Bitweasil: probably because the magazine is meant to promote the rpi and not the arduino I'd guess :p
2018-02-28 16:52:51	shiftplusone	unless the price of arudinos has dropped significantly.
2018-02-28 16:52:53	snowcatman	ok ran those commands without error, now what?
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2018-02-28 16:53:06	Bitweasil	I mean, I could use a quad Xeon server to run a WiFi Desk Lamp as well...
2018-02-28 16:53:11	MacGeek	shiftplusone: you can get chinese arduino clones for stupid cheap prices
2018-02-28 16:53:14	shiftplusone	I use my pi for switching stuff, but through energenies, not directly.
2018-02-28 16:53:17	Bitweasil	<.<  The various clone boards are stupid cheap.
2018-02-28 16:53:39	larsks	snowcatman: now try your web page that was previously giving you the socket error.
2018-02-28 16:53:44	Bitweasil	$2 or something for an Uno clone, though you have a CH serial converter and not a ATMega 16U8 as the serial translator.
2018-02-28 16:54:00	shiftplusone	I have a few clones form borderless electronics, but haven't touched an arduino in many years.... unless 3d printer controller boards count.
2018-02-28 16:54:31	snowcatman	i try the page and the paged started working again, rebooting now to see if it still will work.
2018-02-28 16:55:03	larsks	snowcatman: glad it seems to have helped out!
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2018-02-

mar