Butcher / mz

butcher.txt

Session Start: Sat Dec 06 10:57:29 2014
Session Ident: B-Butch3r
2014-12-06 10:57:29 Session Ident: B-Butch3r (Netgamers) (~mrknutsen@slktr.users.netgamers.org)
2014-12-06 10:57:29 <B-Butch3r> yo
2014-12-06 11:04:38 <B-Butch3r> Effs are more or less started at
2014-12-06 11:04:49 <B-Butch3r> They are pretty close to what i was thinking it would look like
2014-12-06 11:05:03 <B-Butch3r> With 6 classes, having 13 pods makes no sense. Make it 12 (M0RPH3US is right, remove Xan Bs), and turn Etd Fr into Fi.
2014-12-06 11:05:26 <B-Butch3r> I want more than just defenders as the only anti FI for a BS alliance
2014-12-06 11:05:46 <B-Butch3r> Thats why i have xan as a BS option
2014-12-06 11:05:52 <B-Butch3r> Will people build xan BS?
2014-12-06 11:06:09 <B-Butch3r> Im not sure, xan players like to play slow hull researching
2014-12-06 11:06:17 <B-Butch3r> and most of the xans usualy dont have capital hulls for mid round
2014-12-06 11:06:56 <B-Butch3r> Very few alliances, if any, has enough displine within their ranks to do a 100% strat
2014-12-06 11:07:26 <B-Butch3r> Putting in temptations to go for some solo effort was my idea of these stats
2014-12-06 11:08:19 <B-Butch3r> with the new goverment changes, the greed factor of PA has been heavy reduced, not going for capital hulls early on should punish you in the same way not going for TT early does
2014-12-06 11:09:03 <B-Butch3r> So there not being any in eta def for xan fr is okey, it will push the players to rethink what they are researching
2014-12-06 11:09:32 <B-Butch3r> On that note, perhaps the xan FR emp resistance has to be played around with, atm its at average 176% to vipers
2014-12-06 11:10:04 <B-Butch3r> maybe it needs to be 180%+
2014-12-06 11:10:16 <B-Butch3r> Kaiba says FI is too strong
2014-12-06 11:10:21 <B-Butch3r> Blue_esper says BS is too strong
2014-12-06 11:10:27 <B-Butch3r> Isil says CO is too strong
2014-12-06 11:10:54 <B-Butch3r> So i think im close to some sort of balance
2014-12-06 11:10:55 <B-Butch3r> ...
2014-12-06 11:11:13 <B-Butch3r> A problem with Co in general is that all ships either hug or steal, making its inits entirely inconsequential.
2014-12-06 11:11:25 <B-Butch3r> good point to the people saying CO is too strong, it dosnt kill anything
2014-12-06 11:12:12 <B-Butch3r> ...
2014-12-06 11:12:13 <B-Butch3r> The Guardian is an interesting idea, but with Cr being as well rounded as it is, stealing Cr with the Guardian would actually annoy me as a Cat player, because it upsets my fleet balance and gets me nothing in return.
2014-12-06 11:12:20 <B-Butch3r> I tried making cath a strong choice
2014-12-06 11:12:46 <B-Butch3r> on the flipside i dont want to make it too strong, either id leave out the guardian or have it as steal
2014-12-06 11:13:11 <B-Butch3r> You cant get both good EMP efficient, and kill ships imho
2014-12-06 11:13:33 <B-Butch3r> Stealing shit you dont want to steal is usualy a reason for not building steal ships
2014-12-06 11:13:57 <B-Butch3r> ...Outside of Xan, there's only 1 T1 anti-De ship.
2014-12-06 11:14:02 <B-Butch3r> that is on purpose
2014-12-06 11:14:07 <B-Butch3r> FR being as strong as it is
2014-12-06 11:14:33 <B-Butch3r> its to make DE better, without playing around with fundamental inits and targetting
2014-12-06 11:15:15 <B-Butch3r> ...
2014-12-06 11:15:23 <B-Butch3r> On the point on zik being underpowered
2014-12-06 11:15:42 <B-Butch3r> I dont see how to do anything with it without playing around with the fundamentals of the targetting
2014-12-06 11:16:01 <B-Butch3r> Im trying to give it small superpowers few realise
2014-12-06 11:16:03 <B-Butch3r> like the dagger
2014-12-06 11:16:12 <B-Butch3r> and some super res stealer in class
2014-12-06 11:16:48 <B-Butch3r> ...
2014-12-06 11:16:49 <B-Butch3r> In these stats, where Fr has to hit 5 classes, Etd Fr is missing a target. Is that an oversight or intentional? If the latter, I'd be interested in hearing what it is.
2014-12-06 11:16:56 <B-Butch3r> Yes it has it purpose
2014-12-06 11:17:16 <B-Butch3r> FR will only be good within forts, or with enough defenders to freeze FI incs
2014-12-06 11:18:02 <B-Butch3r> If alliances cant get their players to go for ETD in a FR strat
2014-12-06 11:18:11 <B-Butch3r> they will have a hard hard time unless they are forting
2014-12-06 11:18:51 <B-Butch3r> and who wants to go for a race wich attack class you will be using has big holes in it?
2014-12-06 12:54:14 <mz> holycrapwalloftext
2014-12-06 12:54:55 <mz> it would be better to reply on PAF
2014-12-06 12:55:05 <mz> so that everyone can see your intentions with the stats, not just me
2014-12-06 13:47:11 <B-Butch3r> Useless ship list: Interceptor (fires after both Fr fleets) War Cruiser (Dragon in roiding fleet fulfills same task), Torpedo (fires after both De fleets and the Fi fleet, see fix above), Dagger (bad init, off class) and Clipper (stealing Bs is bad).
2014-12-06 13:47:18 <B-Butch3r> Useless ships War Cruiser?
2014-12-06 13:47:22 <B-Butch3r> and Dagger?
2014-12-06 13:47:31 <B-Butch3r> If there is someone building war cruiser, cus of its high efficiency
2014-12-06 13:47:41 <B-Butch3r> those cath/ziks covopping will have a laugh
2014-12-06 13:47:56 <B-Butch3r> or if they can steal one of them
2014-12-06 13:48:09 <B-Butch3r> and dagger they have so high EMP resistance
2014-12-06 13:48:15 <B-Butch3r> they are ace for flak
2014-12-06 13:52:52 <mz> but they are not in the roiding fleet, so no one will build them
2014-12-06 13:55:58 <B-Butch3r> well need to make em silly effective
2014-12-06 13:56:03 <B-Butch3r> For a FR fort alliance
2014-12-06 13:56:07 <B-Butch3r> why would you not build em?
2014-12-06 13:56:27 <B-Butch3r> a smaller ammount will force a recall
2014-12-06 13:57:02 <B-Butch3r> i can nerph dragons attack to make it even more obvious
2014-12-06 13:57:35 <B-Butch3r> and for daggers
2014-12-06 13:57:40 <B-Butch3r> i can up the EMP resistance even further
2014-12-06 13:58:30 <mz> Dec 06 10:38:08 <@mz> I'm more and more convinced that having non-roiding class ships in the stats /at all/ is bad
2014-12-06 13:59:06 <B-Butch3r> Well you cant look at the stats all a4 all the time can you
2014-12-06 13:59:12 <B-Butch3r> if there is no room for doing variatons
2014-12-06 13:59:19 <B-Butch3r> outside the roid class shit
2014-12-06 13:59:24 <B-Butch3r> PA would be boring
2014-12-06 14:00:12 <B-Butch3r> It shouldnt be 2-3 choice you ahve to go to be good
2014-12-06 14:00:41 <B-Butch3r> If you want to make a ships "imbalanced" you have to do it out of roiding class
2014-12-06 14:00:55 <B-Butch3r> and not make it a defensive ship
2014-12-06 14:01:32 <B-Butch3r> Its like, most stats, out of roiding class are either totaly useless
2014-12-06 14:01:38 <B-Butch3r> or super overpowered
2014-12-06 14:02:16 <B-Butch3r> Having something that makes you immune against EMP, even though it dosnt aim at anythign freezing you makes the game more down to tactics
2014-12-06 14:02:33 <B-Butch3r> outflaking is/was a part of the game to deal with EMP
2014-12-06 14:03:05 <B-Butch3r> why not enable it with making a ship wich at first glance would only serve as a flak ship
2014-12-06 14:03:20 <B-Butch3r> (though it save zik from ETD/ZIK fr)
2014-12-06 14:03:46 <B-Butch3r> my stats have a lot of these small bits of tactical options, if you care to read em closely
2014-12-06 14:04:30 <B-Butch3r> Nobody has yet to say that DE is overpowered
2014-12-06 14:04:40 <B-Butch3r> but look at the efficient on it
2014-12-06 14:05:11 <B-Butch3r> and the fact that it to some extent nullifies both xan and etd DE
Session Close: Sat Dec 06 21:48:42 2014