Geheimsache Doping Folge 1 / Top-Secret Doping Ep 1

gd1_en.txt

Below is a *totally machine-generated* transcript & translation into EN of ep 1.

I made this using OpenAI's new Whisper tool (on the "medium" time/accuracy setting) + Google Translate.

I've never used these tools before, and I have NOT reviewed the results for accuracy.

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Hello, nice to have you here again.
And it's especially nice if you're new.
That was Kerstin Hermes and I'm Hajo Seppelt.
we are presenting a new episode in the Secret Matter Doping podcast.
We already had a first season.
We brought up the cases of Jan Ulrich, Dieter Baumann and Ben Johnson, for example.
And Hajo told us how he uncovered Russian state doping
dismantled a European doping network in "Operation Bloodletting".
You can still listen to these five stories in the ARD audio library app
and everywhere there are podcasts.
course you can also get all the episodes of this second season here.
In this article we dedicate ourselves to a case that is as dramatic and complex as no other.
five episodes we take you into a story full of twists and turns, full of hope,
Despair and anger. It is the story of an incredibly successful athlete.
The first woman in the world to win the 5,000 meters three times in a row .
Now she's coming out of the last corner, so to speak.
Nothing but Bechstein. Yes, yes! World record!
Her third consecutive Olympic gold.
Nobody has managed that yet.
As I said, you were already part of humanity. You couldn't expect such a performance.
Still the lead there. Now there's no mistake in the curve, then it's gold.
Anni Friesinger, Daniela Anstrütz - Thoms, Claudia Pechstein. Now they are approaching the finish line next to each other.
That's gold for the Deutschland Express.
Now I am the most successful German Olympian and that is crazy. Awesome.
February 7, 2009. Evening has come in Hama, Norway. The days are short, the nights are long.
muscular thighs , has already completed the first day of the competition .
feels comfortable in the so-called Viking Ship, the speed rink in Hama .
Here she won her first of five Olympic gold medals.
Here she celebrated her first of six world championship titles.
And now Claudia Pechstein is fighting for a medal at the all-around World Championships.
She will soon be 37 and has actually achieved everything in sport.
But she still wants to go to the Olympic Games again, her sixth Games.
There is still a year until Vancouver 2010. The form curve is slowly pointing upwards.
Claudia Pechstein seems satisfied.
The goal, the medal, is definitely there. And I'll definitely get it tomorrow. So I won't admit defeat.
The all-around competition is actually not that important because of the 500 meters.
Claudia Pechstein's parade routes are the long distances, over 3000 and especially 5000 meters. And the 5,000 are due tomorrow.
But then her room phone rings. It's team boss Helge Jasch's turn. She should come into his room.
It's a quarter to eleven in the evening. She scurries across the hallway in her nightgown and flip-flops.
Yes, and then I thought, what's going on now? Because he and our association doctor are completely petrified.
And I thought, what happened here? And then they just told me you're not allowed to start.
Not start? Why? What Claudia Pechstein is about to hear will change her life forever .
Something is wrong with her blood work.
Of course I cried, shook, everything the whole night because it was all such a huge shock.
Since that day nothing has been the same. Claudia Pechstein is no longer just fighting for medals and titles .
To this day she is fighting for her innocence, her reputation and for money.
The Pechstein case. Part 1. The suspicion.
Welcome to the second season of Secret Matter Doping, the podcast.
Hajo, luckily there are still so many stories to tell .
There are many stories to be told about doping , but there is one story here that is so incredibly complex, so incredibly convoluted.
Complicated by the way, this is a case that made sports history and actually still does to this day.
This is the case of Claudia Pechstein, a precedent in the fight against doping without a doubt.
I am a presenter on RBB's Radio 1 and used to be an ARD sports reporter.
Hajo and I know each other from, among other things, the Olympic Games and various appearances in the Tour de France.
Hajo Seppelt is one of the most relevant doping investigative journalists in the world.
It is currently Spring 2023 as we record this.
The Pechstein case has not been finally resolved for 14 years .
A precedent . Hey, you said it.
Everyone has their own opinion on its credibility .
Scientists come to different results and interpretations and courts come to different judgments.
Of course, I would also have loved to speak to Claudia Pechstein personally in this podcast .
We requested an interview with her and received the following answer from her PR manager Ralf Grenge.
In particular, Hajo Seppelt, who you certainly highly value , has demonstrated that
that he is prepared to prepare the cases in a journalistic, professional manner,
in which he was completely wrong , made false accusations and slandered deserving athletes,
Then, yes then, you are welcome to request an interview with Ms. Pechstein again.
In other words, I am sure I will never hear from you again on this matter .
I don't think there's anything more to add to that .
So without a new interview we have the whole jungle of files, reports, interpretations and statements
combed through again to investigate the complex question, did Claudia Pechstein ever dodge or not?
And was she rightly convicted? Has she been treated fairly throughout this time?
And then they said I wasn’t allowed to start tomorrow. Me like, yes why, what did I do?
I really didn't know what it was about.
And in any case it was then said that somehow my blood values were not okay. I'm like, okay.
We are back in Hamar, early February 2009.
We may have already heard from our family doctor that blood values are not OK .
Claudia Pechstein tells this here six years later during a presentation at the University of Cologne .
Hajo, what does that mean exactly in this case?
It's about reticulocytes, which are the blood-forming cells in the body , i.e. young, fresh red blood cells formed in the bone marrow .
The proportion of blood is very small. They usually have a value between 0.5 and 1.5 percent.
Then there is a limit set by the International Skating Union, the ISU, and that is 2.4 percent.
Why is there such a limit? Because if it is significantly increased , then that can be an indication that
that it was manipulated, that it was doped.
At Pechstein there were repeated checks and the figure was 3.5 percent, including in Hamar, in three checks on two days.
So that means 3.5 percent of the normal value between 0.5 and 1.5 percent.
This means your values in Hamar are 2 percent above normal.
Yes, 2 percent over , that's really a lot, because it's also 1 percent over the limit of the International Ice Skating Union.
It all sounds very complicated, but why do we set such limits?
These are already set particularly high so that controversial complications or cases cannot arise in the first place .
So you make it a little bit higher .
And here Pechstein measured even more than this already very high value .
And that just makes it suspicious.
Why are reticulocytes so interesting in general?
These are a very sensitive blood parameter because they help erythropoietin to form in the body .
EPO?
EPO, exactly.
So the body's own EPO, so to speak.
Correct, these are the hematopoietic cells and EPO is the oxygen transport carrier in the blood in the red blood cells .
And these will then ensure that the body can transport more oxygen to the muscles.
And that in turn means that the muscles can work better there .
This means they have more performance through more endurance because there is more oxygen.
And that's why red blood cells are crucial for an athlete's endurance performance .
elevated reticulocyte levels in Claudia Pechstein at the all-around World Championships in Hamar .
All other blood parameters are unremarkable and the ISU therefore suspects Claudia Pechstein of having manipulated her blood.
admitted indirect evidence of doping offenses at the beginning of the year ,
The ISU does not need a positive A sample here, i.e. no positive doping sample.
After this terrible news for her, Claudia Pechstein doesn't start the next day .
She breaks off, shocked and always with the same questions in her head. Why me? How could that happen?
The bad news this morning, the mood in the German team is depressed because Claudia Pechstein can no longer compete.
Ice speedster on team boss Helge Jasch then announces with a serious face why Claudia Pechstein can no longer compete on the second day of the competition.
Then tonight it just started with fever, chills and body aches.
And then this morning it was simply impossible to think about starting and she couldn't get out of bed either.
And unfortunately that means the World Cup is over for them .
Getting sick can happen, says team boss Helge Jasch. In reality, Claudia Pechstein first sits on the train and then on the plane home.
Without chills , but severely shocked and with elevated reticolocyte counts.
Hi, what does that mean?
Well, there are two possibilities . One possibility is that she has a special case.
it could also be that it is a case of blood doping, because these reticolocytes,
So the Retis, as it is called in the specialist genre .
abbreviate it , it's a complicated word.
Yes, they can also transport this oxygen , just as much as finished red blood cells .
This is not yet known to experts.
And if there are many of these reticolocytes, i.e. these young red blood cells or Retis,
must normally also have an influence on other values, namely hemoglobin and hematocrit .
So hemoglobin is the red blood pigment and hematocrit is the blood thickness.
How solid, how lumpy, if you could put it in the worst case scenario , the blood is.
But it has to be said that Pechstein went unnoticed .
So that's why it should n't actually have any effect on endurance.
Central questions: Why are Claudia Pechstein's reticulated values so high?
Yes, and why does it still have other normal values?
So you've already said it, there are actually only two explanations . Either it is being manipulated here,
So she did blood doping, or she has an illness.
Or she has both.
The professional sport Hajo has now been affected by the scandals in cycling and the Spanish doping doctor Juentes
quite a bit of experience in what you can do with blood values.
So the tricks are now known.
And that's why it's also worthwhile for doping investigators in the event of abnormal blood values,
like with Claudia Pechstein, look very closely.
In any case. So that's basically the currency .
If you want to get to the bottom of blood doping, then of course you have to
Also think about what strategies you should use beforehand.
If Reti values, i.e. reticolocytes, are increased due to blood doping ,
then it cannot be reduced again by any method of concealment.
You have to know that too.
But we know very well that this works very well with the other values.
Hermatocrit, for example, because it can reduce the blood thickness.
For example, through heavy drinking or plasma infusions with blood thinners.
Then suddenly it's not really noticeable anymore.
Pechstein there are now abnormalities
and that's why there is this suspicion.
But let us reiterate, this is not a positive doping test.
No, that is very important.
This is about the so-called indirect detection method.
That means, with the help of abnormalities in the urine or, by the way,
when it comes to certain other levels in the body , like testosterone for example,
You can say that there must have been doping there.
But that's not a positive test in the sense that we have a banned substance
in the body , we are not talking about that here.
Exactly, so we have blood values that don't match at first glance
and are therefore suspicious .
They could be manipulated.
There are examples, as we have just heard , of how blood doping can be concealed.
But the World Anti-Doping Agency had a new instrument at that time,
this indirect evidence.
And this was introduced in 2009 , exactly the same year that the Claudia Pechstein case happened.
, the head of the anti-doping laboratory in Cologne, explained to us how it works .
previous manipulation can be detected
using substances or methods that cannot be found directly.
Figuratively speaking, we don't necessarily catch the athlete with his fingers in the cookie jar,
but we recognize the residue , the crumbs and the chocolate residue on him .
Sure, and doping investigators now believe they have found crumbs and leftover chocolate on Claudia Pechstein .
But we don't know anything about any of this at the moment.
And Claudia Pechstein obviously doesn't really have any idea yet,
what your abnormal blood values may indicate .
So what exactly is the ISU accusing her of here?
Later , when everything is known, she looks back on this time in the current gym .
Then the ISU suggested to us that they either go public and impose a protective ban.
Or we personally cancel ourselves, practically canceling because we are ill.
So that was a suggestion from the ISU and that's what I mean by Q-Trade.
So either they go out in public because I get a protective ban, or I could also cancel because I'm sick.
And for me that's what this Q trade is.
I just agreed to it because I did n't want to have my name in the press in connection with doping.
We didn't even know what it was about.
And that's why, as an athlete , you naturally get involved in something like this.
This is how Claudia Pechstein puts it afterwards, is that possible ?
So I believe her.
I really believe that this was a Q trade and that the ISU wasn't a bit better than the German team boss, Helge Jatsch.
Everyone lied, everyone tried to prevent damage.
And the damage is not caused by doping.
The damage occurs when doping becomes known.
That's always the subtle difference.
If doping doesn't become known, the sport will benefit from it, performance will improve, everyone will be happy.
And suddenly doping becomes known.
And that's the great thing that people are talking about it .
It's purely a marketing story because people are afraid that the cases will slip away.
This certainly also applies to Claudia Pechstein personally .
But in this case, I think you have to say that she was misguided by sports officials .
And I would n't put the responsibility on her personally , but rather on those who, as officials, had the say.
In any case, she thinks at the time that this is the end of it and is already looking forward to the next competitions .
And a blood test, which Hamar says is taken outside of the competition, is OK again at 1.37%.
We talked about this before , it is well below the ISU limit.
But instead of state law, her lawyer gets an email from the World Ice Skating Association.
On March 5th , I think it was back in 2009, I got my breast.
And then an accusation came that I had been doping for over ten years .
Doped for over ten years? Now that's a hammer.
Is this extreme reaction from the International Skating Union of the ISU understandable after Hamar's striking Reti values?
For you, why would n't a protective barrier have been enough?
So the whole thing was a long time ago, this case.
But I still remember people from the ice skating scene saying, behind closed doors,
that Claudia Pechstedt had been on the radar for much longer .
And that too would have been strange before .
And perhaps this suspicion that people have expressed existed much earlier .
But they said back then that they had nothing in their hands.
That perhaps explains this reaction, perhaps an overreaction of suddenly speaking ten years ago.
That's pretty daring , I have to say.
In any case , the Reti measurements have repeatedly shown that they are well above the norm.
According to the indictment, they even did so 14 times during this period.
That's really a lot.
And at least that is often the way the ISU presents the competition hearing points .
And that just adds to the basic suspicion .
So the timing of the round world is not unimportant, you have to know that.
Clearly, she was basically on the radar of the World Ice Skating Association.
By the way, the public still has no idea about any of this .
Officially, Claudia Pechstein is still ill or is behind on training ,
which is why she no longer competes in seasonal races.
She feels weak and empty after this feverish infection.
She announced this to the media via a press release via her PR manager Ralf Grengel.
And then she flies on vacation to Las Vegas to drive away heavy thoughts .
That's what she writes in her biography, while others are winning medals at the individual distance World Championships.
Unofficially, however, there is now an indictment against her on suspicion of blood doping.
By the way, we should n't forget an accusation at this point:
against a police chief at the federal police.
That's Claudia Pechstein's job .
course makes it even more explosive, because that means Claudia Pechstein,
Because she is a civil servant and is financed by tax revenue, she is of course particularly in focus.
She may not even be guilty of a misdemeanor or official misconduct.
So the whole thing is even more serious, including what the professional consequences could be .
Because if you violate these rules, in the worst case scenario it can mean that you are fired.
So that was a very, very high height for her .
And the fact that she suddenly disappeared from the scene for a while ,
Of course, a lot of rumors arose .
Then you asked yourself, what's wrong with her?
And if you're honest, even back then, behind closed doors
For one or the other, doping suspicions played a role.
Let's ask someone who took part in many important speed skating races back then.
J ö rg Mebus now works in Hayo's company Eyeopening Media.
In fact, it was relatively strange back then.
You have to say that, less so in Hamar itself.
At the competition where she basically left after the first day.
You had no idea then.
Not really.
That was a bit strange at the moment.
She didn't show up on the second day, but the trainer, doctor and team boss did
Everyone prepared wonderfully and basically told us about the horse.
It actually only became funny later on.
We were heading towards the season finale, the season climax .
You used to talk on the phone more often and you always heard the same sentences .
Your manager Ralf Grengel, who was basically our contact point as journalists,
he was unavailable or was curt.
Relatively short sentences also came from the DSG .
And everything was kind of weird.
All communication has changed .
And then as the days went by, people became more and more suspicious.
Something is going on, something has happened.
And the rumor mill was crazy .
At the very latest, when someone actually asked this question publicly .
That was Ria Fissar.
This was a former Dutch speed skater ,
simply mentioned this on the TV channel NOS at the World Cup finals in Salt Lake City at the beginning of March .
And said, yes , she had heard of rumors
which are related to a possible case of doping in the German team.
The name Pechstein wasn't mentioned, but of course it was there .
course everyone associated this statement with the name Pechstein.
Claudia Pechstein could burst with anger, she later writes in her biography,
because she feels that the air is getting thin .
And she is even preparing a statement with her lawyer,
if the media not only writes about general rumors, but also mentions names .
And that's where her fighting spirit comes back , she writes.
Yes, but first the pressure on the German association had grown so much that they had to speak out .
And the association also had to react to these statements by the former Dutch speed skater Ria Fisser.
He did that in Canada, where the individual distance world championships took place in Richmond.
And it was clearly stated that no, these statements from Ria Fisser, they are wrong.
And legal action against Ria Fisser would also be considered .
And in this context and even before that, we actually asked the wrong questions, it has to be said.
Because at some point we went over that and said, hand on heart.
What actually happened here? What's going on here?
Do you have a positive doping test from Claudia Pechstein? Yes or no?
And the answer was no. And that wasn't even a lie.
In complete contrast to all the stuff they told us before in connection with the events in Hamar .
later said that the protection of the athlete was the priority.
Pechstein would have been a branded market.
On this day in March 2009 , when Claudia Pechstein received the letter from the ISU with the accusation, a new life basically began for her .
I know I didn't dope.
No, I've never done it and I've never even thought about it .
Personally , I know that I have not done anything that is forbidden.
There is no positive sample for me. As I said, I have never used doping.
I do n't know how I could use anything there.
But she is still charged.
Win or die becomes Claudia Pechstein's motto in life.
She says that again and again later.
And yet she doesn't immediately go on the offensive here.
She continues to keep everything secret and makes up excuses as to why she doesn't take part in the competitions .
Why didn't she proactively try to refute the allegations ?
Well, I think you have to understand athletes in a certain way.
In a situation like this, I see things differently when it comes to officials.
Because they personally have nothing to lose.
But an athlete who is associated with a doping suspicion is enough to destroy a career and to question sponsors and contracts .
There's a lot at stake there.
And I have more understanding than officials do .
And I would also like to state once again that it was not a positive test.
Because we are talking about an indirect detection method that was in its early stages at the time.
And of course there were still some uncertainties.
This must not be forgotten.
However, I would also like to say that the ISU clearly wrote in its indictment that it had engaged in blood doping.
So that was the accusation, even if there was no positive test.
Behind the scenes , Claudia Pechstein begins putting together her defense team.
Her PR manager Ralf Grengel is always loyal to her side anyway.
We've just heard about him , he's a former journalist.
Now head of the Powerplay agency and also the son-in-law of Pechstein's trainer Joachim Franke.
Yes, Ralf Grengel organizes press work.
You just said loyal. He stands rock solid by her side and so rock solid, whatever happens.
Claudia Pechstein is almost always right.
And anyone who criticizes Claudia Pechstein will have to deal with Ralf Grengel.
So he just knows black or white, good or bad .
And he follows the reporting exactly, meticulously, looks everywhere .
And if you are too critical in his opinion, an information boycott is often threatened or even imposed .
Among other things, against the ARD's ice skating reporting. This boycott continues to this day.
So this is Claudia Pechstein's PR manager.
And from a legal perspective, she is being supported by a lawyer who is well versed in sports law, namely Simon Bergmann.
A pretty wiry guy with wire-rimmed glasses.
And he specializes in press and sports law, among other things.
Yes, and he comes from the Scherz Bergmann law firm in old West Berlin.
She is now really well known in Germany because Christian Scherz is a celebrity lawyer.
Simon Bergmann's colleague, who had celebrities like Heiner Lauterbach or the then presenter Sabine Christiansen as clients.
And other celebrities who were allowed to come and go there if they had a problem with the media.
And Claudia Pechstein had also known Simon Bergmann well for a long time.
Yes, they're both on a first-name basis. I'll briefly read from Claudia Pechstein's biography about how the two of them treated each other.
Claudia, I'll only ask you this once. Did you dodge or not?
If it comes to that I have to defend you, I need to know that.
So that's his greeting, so to speak, to her . She says no. And Simon Bergmann then goes straight to work.
One of his points of attack is the basic procedure .
The association cannot avoid this arduous task by placing the burden of proof on the athlete.
Because the ISU bases its accusation on a single piece of evidence. And Claudia Pechstein should now provide proof that she is innocent.
Hajo, that's actually the case with positive doping samples .
Yes, this is the so-called reversal of the burden of proof. This is a kind of basic law for sports associations and the World Anti - Doping Agency .
So if an athlete is caught with a positive doping test, a substance has been found in his body ,
He then has to prove how this substance got into the body through no fault of his.
But we're talking about positive tests here. But there was no positive test here. Here it was an indirect detection method.
I understand Simon Bergmann, Claudia Pechstein's lawyer, that he is fundamentally asking the question of whether the burden of proof must be placed on the athlete.
Whether this is an ethically defensible position. You can really argue about that .
But the whole thing has already been fought through. And so far, international sport has gotten away with this principle of reversing the burden of proof.
, the Pechstein lawyers had asked the ISU to change the standard of proof , namely to very close to beyond a reasonable doubt.
So, so to speak, the ISU should prove very close to beyond a doubt that Claudia Pechstein really did dope.
Not only one probability exists.
Exactly, the ISU rejected that. I'm wondering, but the ISU has made it pretty easy for itself .
Because there is very, very much at stake for Claudia Pechstein .
And do you set the bar so low for yourself, especially since the ISU, the world ice skating association, is both the prosecutor and the judge?
Yes, it's actually unbelievable, but those were the times back then.
And you have to imagine that, you are standing in front of a court and then the accuser, the public prosecutor, is also the judge at the same time.
And then you stand at the front and are accused of a misdemeanor or a crime and then you have to defend yourself. It's a bit difficult, I would say.
And in that case was that the case?
Yes, that was still the case back then. At that time there was already the International Court of Arbitration for Sports as the final authority, but in the beginning the roles were distributed differently.
But now in this first ISU disciplinary procedure this obviously means that the international ice skating union does not have to prove beyond doubt that
that the values in the personal blood profile necessarily indicate doping and there are no alternatives.
That's the procedure in which it is decided whether Claudia Pechstein will be banned or not.
I'll try to break it down a bit . Of course it sounds like that now, how can something like that be?
But it's not that simple, because indirect detection methods have the risk that you have to interpret them.
And interpretations are not always beyond doubt. And that's why it's not entirely wrong to say that there must be a certain probability.
Of course , you can argue about the wording, whether the matter has to be beyond any doubt, or whether almost every doubt has to be eliminated .
So this whole discussion is a bit semantic. But nevertheless it is not that easy.
In the end, this means that for a sports law case using indirect proof methods, it will never be 100% certain whether it can be proven.
People will always say that there is no other explanation for these blood values.
So Hajo, let's summarize it again. Claudia Pechstein has to prove that there is another cause for her increased Reti values,
because otherwise this circumstantial process in the fight against doping is not really possible . What other explanations could these be ?
, the Pechstein site gave a few explanations for slightly elevated reticulocyte levels , including stress, infection or cold or excessive training.
But at least the people we asked about it from the medical field told us that it was rather unlikely.
The only comprehensible explanation from a scientific perspective, apart from doping for such values, is a simple blood disease.
And that's why the Pechstein team is starting to consult experts . Top scientists in Germany who are very familiar with blood parameters.
Professor Wolfgang Jelkmann is a physiologist and professor at the University of Lübeck , a world-leading epic researcher.
And Professor Werner Heimpel from the University of Ulm is one of the most renowned hematologists in Germany.
Among other things, he deals with benign and malignant blood diseases.
And that's exactly what Claudia Pechstein is looking for now. She sticks by it, she hasn't doped, so she urgently needs to find a plausible alternative to the doping theory, otherwise she could face a ban.
That's clear to her now, hei, and that's her right.
Of course it is good law. She is suspected of doping and she must and she can and of course she should do what she can for the defense, i.e. the best .
And so you know that when Claudia Pechstein starts something, especially in her surroundings, then she does it right and intensively and comprehensively.
And that's what happened in this case too. The experts mentioned are certainly among the leaders in Germany, as far as I can tell.
There were also a few others who joined in. In any case, suddenly a lot of doping researchers or blood experts from around the world are busy with this Pechstein case .
Of course everyone has to remain silent , medical confidentiality , because officially no one knows yet what the doping accusation against Claudia Pechstein is.
And what is interesting is that a number of experts who have now dealt with this have come to a completely different conclusion than the international ice skating federation in a report.
the increased values could actually have natural causes .
Yes, a blood anomaly, some inherited abnormality of the blood. There was also talk of an epogen variant.
For Claudia Pechstein, these are of course groundbreaking findings. Why didn't anyone come up with the idea of checking with her before?
Well, she probably didn't know anything about the abnormal blood values. And if she doesn't know, why should she look?
If that's true, if she has a blood disorder, then there is an alternative explanation for the elevated reticolocyte levels ,
could seriously undermine the International Skating Union's argument . And Claudia Pechstein also believes that the ISU was definitely impressed at the time.
The President of the German Speed Skating Association, Gerd Heinzer, later said the following in the current sports studio on ZDF, when everything had come out.
Yes, there was a request to me from the chairman of the legal commission and also the prosecutor in the disciplinary commission ,
who made the suggestion to us that if Claudia were to end her active career , they would quash the proceedings and it would not be made public .
Of course , this suggestion almost came to life for me, because together with Claudia we are actually researching the causes,
because we are for the fight against doping and against abuse and we want to find the truth. And that really shocked me .
Apparently they were unsure of their argument and whether these procedures actually met the legal requirements .
So, Hajo, let's summarize it again. If she ends her career, the alleged doping case will be swept under the carpet.
You could also call it a cover-up, simply a cover-up. To be honest, it is not entirely unimportant whether someone ends their career or not.
Doping is doping. If someone is doped, then they should be taken out of circulation, should that be the case.
But what do you think is behind it? Shortly before, the ISU actually wanted to get out of the number because it was impressed by what
What did the experts find that it could possibly also be an illness ? Is it conceivable?
I think we have to start much higher up there. The question here is whether a world association would like to
Would a sport want to be associated with doping? What is the more interesting model?
Having a major doping case involving Claudia Pechstein, one of the outstanding protagonists of this sport,
then being in the headlines about it for weeks, months, maybe years and the corresponding negative PR
not just for Claudia Pechstein, not just for the association, but for the sport.
Or isn't it perhaps much better to keep the cloak of silence about it , because then no one will suffer any great harm?
Ms. Pechstein is no longer there, the association has no PR problem, it is not associated with doping,
the sport can now continue. It's easy to think about whether it doesn't make sense to
It's better to put the whole thing on file. And that is exactly what is happening and has happened, especially over decades, in international sport.
Because these considerations that the ISU is citing here , if that is true, these considerations have also been implemented
in other sports for years where doping has been covered up because everyone feared
that otherwise things could get to them .
But we also have to point out at this point that the ISU may have been behind this and also worked sloppily?
I don't know if that's the reason, but I can attest to the fact that the work was done sloppily.
I could tell an anecdote that is so incredible, you can't even imagine it.
At the time, that was research for the ARD Sportschau, and I made a contribution.
I was a bit surprised at the time: what happened to the EPO test?
I think this indirect evidence was taken back then, but it's obvious that
If you use an indirect detection method, you should also take a closer look at an EPO test.
And perhaps an EPO test was also carried out in Hammer or at least close to Hammer.
Then you could have checked , for example , whether synthetic EPO was found in the urine.
That would have been direct evidence of doping.
And that's what moved me at the time, this question.
And then I researched and then it actually came out ,
that the international ice skating union did a test in or shortly before or shortly after Hammer
Claudia Pechstein in her urine, a completely normal doping control.
And then this urine went to the laboratory in Hammer in Norway and then it was there.
And then it became clear that they had abnormal blood values.
And then they had the urine and analyzed it.
And now guess what they didn't analyze him for.
On EPO probably?
That is correct.
They didn't try to find the most obvious one.
How can that be?
So I've never really experienced anything so crazy on Lebta and I thought to myself,
A world association that carries out such controls has to check it.
The laboratory had no responsibility for this ; the laboratory only does what the association says.
And if the association doesn't pay for an EPO test in urine, then it won't take place.
And because I was so interested in it, I spoke to the then ISU doctor Jane Moran.
So I drove to western Canada because I wanted to know from her:
Is what I believe true, namely that they actually didn't do an EPO test?
- competition tests , the majority of them, tested for EPO.
But not so many in competition.
We suspect that athletes are intelligent enough to stop taking EPO shortly before competition.
We therefore did not feel that we were putting our money where our mouth was when testing for EPO during competitions .
Does that mean that you didn't have Ms. Pechstein's urine test tested for EPO on February 7, 2009 ?
That is correct.
ca n't think of anything else.
Well, it sounds logical.
But still. So I mean, you have to look carefully after the exclusion process,
whether there might still be residual traces .
They suspect something.
In such a case, to judge on the basis of assumptions,
Well, that's really hard for me to understand.
Normally this urine sample would have been destroyed after three months .
A doping analyst, and not one from Norway, wanted to know exactly
He then had the sample come to Germany, by the way.
And it is simply true that no EPO was found in Ms. Pechstein's urine .
As I said, maybe it couldn't have happened anyway , because then nothing was broken down,
but you still check it.
You just look, like when you rob a bank, if you have the opportunity .
the fingerprints with others, if you have already taken them anyway,
Then you look and you might find these fingerprints somewhere in the file .
And that's exactly what didn't happen here.
For me, this is a declaration of bankruptcy for an association.
And that just adds to the sloppy ranks of this association. There were several of them.
It only came out because the argument with Claudia Pechstein came about .
We just heard about the alleged Q-trade , namely dropping the whole thing,
when Claudia Pechstein ends her career.
The then ISU President Cinquanta rejected the accusation of Q-trafficking .
state that again here.
And Claudia Pechstein doesn't respond to the alleged offer either.
I didn't have to think about it for a second , because if you didn't dodge,
then you don't have to admit guilt. And so that was out of the question at all.
So the matter is clear. Claudia Pechstein did everything that was possible in a short amount of time to ensure that
to convince the ISU that she did not dodge.
I don't quite see it that way now. She may have done a lot.
But what you bring into the process is also crucial.
And the ISU's accusation at the time was that they had up to ten days before the oral hearing
did not initiate their own investigations to prove their innocence.
At least introduced means it is not presented.
Claudia Pechstein is full of adrenaline when she goes to the hotel at the train station in Bern before the ISU trial.
in Switzerland, she writes in her book.
Here before the ISU Disciplinary Commission it will now be decided whether she will be banned or not.
So it's really a very, very important day.
Everyone came, their lawyer, the representatives of the German Eisschneller Association
and their two experts also did not rule out the body's own causes at this point in time.
At the strategy meeting, lawyer Simon Bergmann summarizes again.
He said at the time that their starting point and the evidence were good.
They have meaningful reports and the ISU has no evidence of doping.
And in such a case, the presumption of innocence must apply .
So Bergmann seems to be convinced of success and Pechstein feels that too , she writes later .
But what worries them is that both the prosecutors and the judges of the arbitration court
all functionaries of the world association are.
We already discussed this briefly earlier.
So Claudia Pechstein, the Olympic champion, is standing against the powerful World Ice Skating Association
and also against the inviolable World Anti-Doping Agency with its new concept,
namely the indirect proof.
And here she now has to explain, with a high degree of probability,
that she has a blood disease.
Yes, but of course the ISU also fielded two blood experts .
And they say that the increased Reti values could only have been caused by doping .
Then there is a so-called independent assessor .
What's interesting is that the ISU provides it.
You can ask yourself questions about what is independent about it.
Professor Max Gassmann from the University of Zurich.
He should then be the ISU Disciplinary Commission, so you see everything in the hands of the association,
assist in examining the scientific evidence .
On June 29th and 30th 2009 the time has come.
The ISU has rented a room in the district court.
exchanges between national and international officials
A bit like being among friends, even though they are actually opponents.
Claudia Pechstein is really irritated by this , she writes in her book.
She wants more distance.
And the seating arrangement also feels uncomfortable for them .
Her lawyer Simon Bergmann sits to her left.
But to the right, directly to the right of her, one of the accusers sits , shoulder to shoulder, so to speak.
It takes 1.5 days.
This is an excruciatingly long time for Claudia Pechstein , especially when it comes to procedural issues.
Until finally it is the turn of the scientists from the ISU Disciplinary Commission.
Can the abnormal values be explained by a genetic blood disease or not?
That is the crucial question.
Yes, and some say very unlikely.
Others say it could well be so.
Also, by the way, is Max Gassmann from the University of Zurich , who was appointed by the court.
retreating again and agreeing with your assessors,
The presiding judge then presents a proposal shortly before the end of the hearing .
She offers Claudia Pechstein that the verdict could be delayed ,
undergoes medical examinations within a reasonable time frame.
90 days, she can continue training and taking part in competitions .
But if she refuses, then she will have to bear all the negative consequences.
That's actually a fair suggestion.
At least that's what it sounds like to me.
Understanding, Claudia Pechstein but off.
Why didn't she accept this offer?
Did she not trust the ISU experts or did she think that was not necessary ?
Honestly, I don't understand it. I don't know it.
So if I were given a hand like that, I would say that, I'll do that for now.
I don't know it.
So she then says that she wants to be examined, but without any time pressure.
she still says later that she wanted a decision quickly.
That's somehow a bit crazy, because the decision would then have been against them.
Okay, but if she says that she has to bear all the consequences, all the negatives,
which they have to fear that things will then turn out to their disadvantage.
But both lawyers were sure that in the end there could only be a result for Claudia Pechstein.
leaves the courtroom as not having been convicted of doping .
I also knew from doctors that it could take many, many years.
Maybe, when it comes to genetic testing and so on, you only find out the cause very, very late .
And my goal was of course to take part in the Olympic Games in Vancouver.
Training camps were coming up and the tears , the preparation, of course , followed.
And why should I wait any longer ?
And I definitely knew that the verdict could only go for me.
And I leave the room there and then move on to the agenda , but unfortunately that wasn't the case.
The judge closes the hearing shortly after 7 p.m.
public still has no idea about it.
But it is clear to everyone on Claudia Pechstein's team that if she is convicted, everyone will know.
And life after that will be different.
She is already on her way to the airport.
Claudia Pechstein is flying to Italy because she is to be awarded an international fair play award there.
A day later her second life begins.
German top sport is shaken by a new doping case .
The speed skater and multiple Olympic champion Claudia Pechstein has been convicted of blood doping .
As the international ice skating union announced, the Berliner was banned for two years.
That was part 1 of Secret Doping – The Pechstein Case.
A sports show podcast from Rundfunk Berlin Brandenburg in collaboration with Eye-Opening Media.
Written by me, Kerstin Hermes.
Editors Philipp Büchner and Dirk Walzdorf for RBB and Jörg Mebus for Eye-Opening Media.
Research, Jörg Mebus .
Dramaturgy, Franziska Grenzin.
Medical advice, Susanne Fass.
Legal advice, Kerstin Skiba and Oliver Kastendeig.
David Schü lper produced the episodes with Philipp Büchner .
The audio design is by Kevin Carstens.
Bernd Bechtholdt recorded a conversation with Hayo.
Bodo Pasternak made further voice recordings.
Executive producer of the Secret Matter Doping podcasts is Dirk Walzdorf.
This season we repeatedly quote from Claudia Pechstein's autobiography of Gold and Blood.
It was published by Schwarzkopf and Schwarzkopf at the end of 2010.
You can find all episodes of Secret Matter Doping in the ARD Audiothek app.
And only there you will find the new podcast Heuza, Betrayal of Football .
This is the gripping chronology of one of the biggest scandals in German sports history.