System Shock 1 Devstream 2 chat log (joins/parts removed)

log

12:04:19 <timstellmach>	It's quiet. Almost ... too quiet.
12:06:02 <chuckfiniey>	They mostly come out at night... mostly
12:08:21 <ranavin>	Wow, the IRC interface to this has some issues
12:09:26 <koshirro>	Game over man! Game over!
12:10:00 <algorithmancy>	gonna do a test soon.
12:10:15 <valet2>	cool, i'm gonna record this video as well
12:10:27 <chuckfiniey>	THEY'RE COMING OUT OF THE WALLS, THEY'RE COMING OUT OF THE GODDAMN WALLS (appologies for the caps lock, it was necessary to express the correct message)
12:10:36 <valet2>	here's the last session, with comments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LDiTZ89j-Q
12:11:26 <valet2>	"i may be synthetic, but i'm not stupid"
12:14:27 <valet2>	oh, that voice again! nice to hear you!
12:15:01 <koshirro>	holy *** it sounds and looks way better than the last time
12:15:01 <valet2>	please check the audio-email!
12:15:03 <valet2>	yeah
12:15:14 <koshirro>	nice to hear shodan again
12:15:17 <valet2>	sounds good here
12:15:53 <chuckfiniey>	it's always terrifying to hear SHODAN again
12:17:15 <koshirro>	i have shodan's "i see that you are still receiving transmissions from earth..." as my text message voice
12:18:14 <koshirro>	it always manages to startle me
12:18:28 <timstellmach>	Sound check quote from Mahk "Basically, everything was totally wrong last time."
12:19:00 <psymong>	is it time for part 2?
12:19:27 <timstellmach>	Starting in 40 minutes.
12:19:40 <psymong>	excellent!
12:19:57 <psymong>	watched the entire first one on youtube, basically wrote off a day for it
12:20:03 <psymong>	such is my love for system shock 1
12:20:07 <koshirro>	so you just mirrored every setting and now it works perfectly?
12:20:16 <koshirro>	i still blame the twitch demon
12:20:40 <algorithmancy>	We'll be starting in about 40 minutes
12:21:05 <chuckfiniey>	great, I have plenty of homework to do while watching the stream :P
12:21:17 <koshirro>	i feel like making some coffee. it's not like i'm going to sleep tonight anyway
12:24:08 <timstellmach>	By the way, it's Mahk's birthday tomorrow, so when we get started, everyone wish him Happy Birthday.
12:25:03 <koshirro>	nice timing :O
12:26:45 <unn_atropos>	test
12:27:17 <koshirro>	mic check 1,2,1,2
12:27:35 <ranavin>	I see you!
12:29:30 <datrebb>	get hype ?
12:31:00 <koshirro>	can't stay still
12:32:25 <koshirro>	bok bok
12:33:10 <koshirro>	switched to my pc so i can sit on my recliner
12:33:28 <ranavin>	I'm up in the kitchen racing to see if I can get the pasta done before the stream starts
12:35:21 <ranavin>	Signs point to no, but I've got the laptop and the new maps are uploaded at least.
12:35:59 <gschmidl>	Just throw it in the microwave with a bowl of water
12:36:02 <gschmidl>	what could possibly go wrong?
12:36:25 <koshirro>	i heard they do that in the fine restaurants
12:37:40 <ranavin>	gschmidl: I have to boil the sausages first!
12:38:26 <ranavin>	Also, for the record, new maps are here: http://funkyhorror.ancilla.ca/toxicfrog/ss1/maps/map.html
12:38:49 <ranavin>	Notable improvements include a search box so that when Mahk is looking for something, we can all look it up and then give him contradictory, lagged-out instructions on how to get to it
12:38:56 <gschmidl>	Sausages ALSO go in the microwave!
12:39:08 <gschmidl>	again, what could go wrong?
12:39:15 <gschmidl>	make some eggs as well ;)
12:40:26 <ranavin>	These are my father-in-law's home-made beef sausages, subjecting them to the microwave is practically criminal!
12:40:49 <unn_atropos>	damn last time i Had chips, coke and stuff. forgot that today -_-
12:40:53 <gschmidl>	That's... not something I can contradict.
12:41:15 <ranavin>	unn_atropos: last time we didn't have anything because we weren't expecting the stream to go on nearly as long as it did.
12:41:35 <ranavin>	We disconnected around the time they reached deck 3, partly because we were ravenous.
12:41:36 <koshirro>	i'm eating cold microwave pizza because i can't wait for two mins
12:42:35 <unn_atropos>	@Ranavin someone should get us valureps
12:42:52 <koshirro>	haha
12:42:53 <namelessvoice>	Why is everyone even here this early?
12:43:18 <unn_atropos>	because we are swots^^
12:43:21 <koshirro>	because the test stream is almost as entertaining as the real thing
12:43:38 <koshirro>	and we like to talk about food
12:43:39 <ranavin>	...wait, there's a test stream running? I don't see anything, just the chat.
12:43:57 <ranavin>	namelessvoice: to make sure the IRC connection was working properly so that I could log it this time.
12:44:42 <unn_atropos>	oh good. you are logging the whole thing. thats cool
12:44:43 <koshirro>	who are going to join the stream tonight?
12:44:59 <namelessvoice>	Fair enough
12:45:29 <koshirro>	are you logging this conversation?
12:45:37 <valet2>	Would be cool to have Greg LoPiccolo in conversation
12:45:38 <ranavin>	Yes. I am logging all chat.
12:45:55 <koshirro>	because excuse my bad english it's not my first language
12:46:24 <koshirro>	and i'm pretty hyper on caffeine right now so i may to talk a lot without making any sense at all
12:48:11 <rustbyte>	good evening :)
12:49:00 <datrebb>	so. will sound be working well this time ? TAKING BETS Kappa
12:49:03 <koshirro>	make yourself comfortable, hacker. stay a while
12:49:33 <koshirro>	they already tested it. it's beatiful
12:49:37 <ranavin>	Awesome
12:49:38 <koshirro>	resolution is higher too
12:49:43 <algorithmancy>	Not gonna jinx it by taking the bet
12:49:52 <rustbyte>	good call ;)
12:50:05 <koshirro>	if you encounter any poltergeists, you know who to call
12:50:07 <rustbyte>	how long till you start btw?
12:50:13 <timstellmach>	We should, once again tonight, have Marc Leblanc and Sean Barrett (engineers), myself, Dorian Hart, and I believe Austin Grossman (designers). Plus whoever shows up on the text chat.
12:50:23 <timstellmach>	Starting in 10 minutes or so.
12:50:38 <rustbyte>	awesome, got time to get some refreshments then :)
12:51:51 <koshirro>	are you going to go through some audio logs now that you got the audio working properly?
12:52:16 <unn_atropos>	@Algorithmancy do you think you will play through the enire game today?
12:52:16 <dsfinp>	What about screen res? Is it going to be same as last time?
12:52:25 <algorithmancy>	A little better I hope
12:52:56 <algorithmancy>	And hopefully slightly better compression.
12:53:07 <ranavin>	algorithmancy: are you restarting from the beginning, or continuing from where stream 1 left off?
12:53:14 <algorithmancy>	Continuing.
12:53:30 <rustbyte>	would be awesome if you guys also did a Theif playthrough down the road
12:53:42 <algorithmancy>	One playthrough at a time.
12:53:51 <rustbyte>	hehe
12:54:08 <algorithmancy>	Don't know if we'll finish today.  Definitely want to get beta grove jettisoned and on to level 7
12:54:19 <algorithmancy>	Levels 7-9 are stretch goals for today.
12:54:28 <jasohavents>	cool
12:54:41 <jasohavents>	Good luck devs.
12:54:50 <algorithmancy>	But the intent is guided tour rather than speed run. :)
12:54:52 <unn_atropos>	see? we need a shock/thief crossover mission! goggles and garret
12:55:18 <algorithmancy>	That sounds like an awesome fan project. :)
12:55:27 <koshirro>	but system shock 1 protagonist is not goggles...
12:56:00 <ranavin>	Where did stream 1 end? I haven't had a chance to catch up on it yet, and my wife and I had to leave when you reached deck 3.
12:56:17 <rustbyte>	sprinkle that with some underworld and u got urself a super-nerdgasm-nova waiting to happen
12:56:40 <algorithmancy>	We're on level 5. We'll start with a summary.
12:56:42 <koshirro>	looking glass marathon stream?
12:56:46 <algorithmancy>	Level 4 sorry.
12:56:46 <koshirro>	all games in a row
12:56:54 <datrebb>	^
12:56:55 <koshirro>	storage level
12:57:00 <ranavin>	Aah, the Cargo Pits of Ragnarok
12:57:16 <ranavin>	Aka THE BEST PLACE EVER thanks to that giant stash of Magpulse ammo you find
12:57:49 <koshirro>	and one of the funniest shodan traps in the game
12:58:05 <ranavin>	Yes ♥
12:58:15 <sinedio>	is the stream over?
12:58:25 <koshirro>	it starting in just a few mins
12:58:31 <sinedio>	oh, cool
12:59:11 <koshirro>	though i think the exploding antenna room trap is funnier because how unfair it is
13:00:51 <caladus>	I think everybody got caught in that the first time.
13:01:01 <unn_atropos>	I hope someone has written down the number in the room on medical deck.
13:01:04 <psymong>	whatre the chances of a terra nova retrospective i wonder?
13:01:15 <ranavin>	I did, but I managed to escape by thiking quickly and remembering that I had a logic probe in my backpack
13:01:16 <caladus>	I couldn't find the console to hack my first time through because I was so flustered.
13:01:30 <austingrossman>	I would watch a TN dev playthrough
13:01:39 <caladus>	And now every playthrough I have a probe with me
13:01:57 <nothings2>	Austin is that you?
13:02:11 <caladus>	Yay!
13:02:19 <caladus>	Annnnnd. Ads
13:02:20 <koshirro>	yeehah!
13:02:27 <rustbyte>	ooh! ooh!  ssshh! its starting :D
13:02:31 <caladus>	I mute you useless ad.
13:02:32 <jasohavents>	DEVS ARE AWESOMEGRAPHICS ARE GREAT!
13:02:39 <jasohavents>	They fixed the stream!
13:02:48 <koshirro>	days of future past on itunes and system shock dev cast. best week ever!
13:02:55 <datrebb>	451
13:02:58 <austingrossman>	Hey Nothings2 yup its me
13:03:01 <ranavin>	Augh, it's started but I can't hear anything
13:03:07 <nothings2>	@Austingrossman get on the skype call!
13:03:07 <psymong>	Hello!
13:03:10 <voodoo47>	here we go.
13:03:27 <rygorous>	Yay!
13:03:36 <jasohavents>	I am
13:03:36 <badwiid>	It's all good
13:03:37 <rustbyte>	i hear you fine
13:03:39 <jasohavents>	I have audio
13:03:43 <drtwox>	Hi from Australia :) 6am here. Audio all fine.
13:03:43 <jasohavents>	its he problemo
13:03:48 <unn_atropos>	all smooth
13:03:50 <sinedio>	tbh, I tried playing with the default control scheme and I just couldn't get used to it. Installed the mouse look mod :)
13:03:51 <jasohavents>	*only the one guys problem
13:03:55 <koshirro>	everything sounds fine
13:03:58 <badwiid>	Play an audio log so we can test that :P
13:04:04 <sinedio>	I can see the stream and audio is great :)
13:04:05 <ranavin>	Audio fixed, user error on my end
13:04:07 <koshirro>	yeah test an audio log
13:04:10 <caladus>	Audio works fine. I had it muted for the ads though.
13:04:31 <rustbyte>	hear it fine
13:04:37 <tanzanite7>	Yeah, i would say the audio level is fine.
13:04:40 <koshirro>	yeehah!
13:04:45 <rustbyte>	could be a tad higher though (the audio log that is )
13:04:46 <voodoo47>	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LDiTZ89j-Q
13:04:47 <ranavin>	Storage level map: http://funkyhorror.ancilla.ca/toxicfrog/ss1/maps/map.html#4,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15 -- they're around (25,27)
13:04:53 <voodoo47>	the first stream, chat included
13:04:57 <valet2>	why the game works so slow? is it 1024x768? high resolutions works bad in dosbox.
13:05:14 <unn_atropos>	I like this "by the way"^^
13:05:14 <koshirro>	it sounds good on headphones at least
13:05:15 <badwiid>	We can hear it fine, it's great
13:05:23 <rygorous>	Audio is fine here.
13:05:27 <caladus>	I actually have the original prima guide around here somewhere.
13:05:33 <caladus>	Prima. So much recycling.
13:05:38 <drtwox>	@Nothings2 Can we direct our unending stream of questions at your again? :P
13:05:44 <drtwox>	^^ you
13:05:46 <nothings2>	Yes
13:05:57 <caladus>	A cortex reaver. Yay
13:06:20 <unn_atropos>	look for "shades of grey"...
13:06:32 <caladus>	Yeah I love that 'we're alive help us!' trick. You bastards.
13:06:33 <koshirro>	can you remember who's doing all the voices and stuff?
13:06:39 <glenchx>	haha I like to pretend that little "you have a skype message" noise that played on the stream was part of the desperate email that lady in the game sent
13:07:08 <glenchx>	like she had skype on in the background while recording her email
13:07:19 <caladus>	3!
13:07:54 <azriel1987>	why in the world did useless weapons were added to this game like the riot gun?
13:07:55 <koshirro>	someone should tweet that the stream's live
13:07:56 <dsfinp>	it looks excelent today
13:07:58 <psymong>	1. get to bridge 2. get to hangar 3. improve memos
13:08:40 <voodoo47>	hey Valet hope you are recording this one too?
13:08:41 <caladus>	Hollow points for a robot?
13:08:44 <tanzanite7>	@Azriel1987: i love that the world is not built for the player - having useless crap is AWESOME!
13:08:51 <ranavin>	azriel1987: the riot gun is fantastic for really weird impractical things like moving live land mines around
13:08:54 <caladus>	You have any AP ammo?
13:08:59 <ranavin>	Since the shots will not set off the mines but will move them
13:09:13 <caladus>	Armor piercing not anti personel
13:10:10 <unn_atropos>	elefant scream
13:10:17 <drtwox>	Did y'all convince Dough Church he should be here?
13:10:23 <koshirro>	 austin has entered the building... well skype at least
13:10:37 <ranavin>	I always figured that outside the "walls" of the storage level were tanks of oxygen and water and stuff
13:10:46 <ranavin>	Bulk consumables for the station
13:11:03 <rygorous>	Maybe Doug Church is an alias for a collective of people!
13:11:20 <koshirro>	*gasp*
13:11:21 <rygorous>	Like Nicolas Bourbaki.
13:11:31 <drtwox>	@Rygorous  THE MANY! :O
13:11:42 <caladus>	Who put that switch there?!
13:12:03 <rygorous>	@Caladus: 1. you're fired but 2. how did you do that? and 3. before you leave, move that switch please.
13:12:08 <caladus>	Somebody didn't read the practical design section of the 'How to build a space station' manual.
13:12:35 <caladus>	@Rygorous Hehe. Yeah.
13:12:37 <koshirro>	i assume those repulser lifts are a handy way to move crates around
13:12:43 <ranavin>	Magpulse ammo ♥
13:12:44 <caladus>	That's what I always thought.
13:12:45 <drtwox>	Something older games did better (among lots of things!) was abstract level design.
13:12:54 <ranavin>	I was ecstatic when I hit deck 4 and could use the magpulse again
13:13:39 <glenchx>	it's still sort of ridiculous
13:13:39 <tanzanite7>	lol
13:13:44 <valet2>	hahaha
13:13:46 <rygorous>	:)
13:14:01 <jiggawattz121>	SAVE GANE
13:14:10 <jasohavents>	Yeah save!
13:14:42 <tanzanite7>	Save Gamed
13:14:42 <nimrod80>	What games that have been inspired by System Shock do you like the most? Bioshock, Bioshock Infinite, Dead Space, other?
13:14:44 <koshirro>	nah no need to save as long as they don't leave the level
13:14:44 <azriel1987>	go lightsaber frenzy on the robot
13:14:58 <psymong>	happy birthday for tomorrow mahk!
13:15:09 <arghks>	hi and thank you for creating system shock :)
13:15:13 <jasohavents>	Mahk's birthday? happy birthday then1!!!
13:15:31 <rygorous>	What's wrong with the palette?
13:15:36 <koshirro>	so it's not like mahk pahked the cah in the hahvahd yahd?
13:15:36 <tanzanite7>	"LASER RAPIER" ... is overpowered :p
13:15:48 <jasohavents>	The screen... Oh god...
13:15:51 <azriel1987>	He took LSD
13:15:54 <caladus>	okay. Who hit the acid trip button
13:15:58 <jasohavents>	XD
13:15:59 <unn_atropos>	@Rygorous its berzek patch
13:16:01 <rygorous>	Ah, Berserk. Didn't see that.
13:16:21 <koshirro>	system shock: teaching kids that drugs make you see the world in way cooler way since 94
13:16:30 <jasohavents>	yeah
13:16:38 <jasohavents>	Then SS2 make smoking look bad.
13:16:38 <caladus>	I wanted slap patches ever since.
13:16:42 <jasohavents>	*made
13:17:21 <valet2>	and "salt the fries"
13:17:32 <glenchx>	oh god there were jump puzzles in this game?
13:17:49 <koshirro>	yes
13:17:51 <rygorous>	@glenchx: Several.
13:17:56 <skacky>	I love that level
13:18:00 <rygorous>	They're fiddly as hell too. :/
13:18:03 <koshirro>	you can use the jetpack too if you want to
13:18:05 <sinedio>	Use the rapier on those things. One or two swings  is all that's needed
13:18:16 <koshirro>	eats your battery really quick though
13:18:22 <unn_atropos>	coul you turn on the map?
13:18:27 <skacky>	yeah byt the rapier is so good
13:18:33 <rygorous>	No jetpack so far. :)
13:18:43 <glenchx>	so I can blame this game any time I have to platform in a modern-day FPS? :P
13:18:53 <azriel1987>	the rapier is so OP - you can pass the entire game using the rapier only
13:18:54 <koshirro>	both edward diego and shodan were writing for dishonored too
13:19:18 <caladus>	Double click on hidden door. Best cybernetic mod ever.
13:20:34 <glenchx>	what are all the developers doing nowadays?
13:20:49 <rustbyte>	Save your game
13:20:51 <caladus>	Some work at Valve now.
13:21:13 <caladus>	What's that? 3 deaths so far?
13:21:36 <glenchx>	haha
13:21:48 <rygorous>	@caladus: There will be many more.
13:21:49 <azriel1987>	you need to activate a button under a box on the floor
13:21:52 <kosherx>	Riot Games????
13:21:58 <caladus>	We need a doom counter.
13:22:08 <rustbyte>	should call it Riot GameZ tbh
13:22:20 <rustbyte>	with Z for Zorro
13:22:40 <caladus>	Those silly EMPs.
13:22:43 <tanzanite7>	Nice shoot - hitting the grenade mid flight.
13:22:49 <glenchx>	thanks for answer my question, guys!
13:22:53 <caladus>	Hey they do that in the new Metal Gear
13:22:58 <glenchx>	answering*
13:23:00 <koshirro>	hopefully we'll hear about underworld soon
13:23:11 <caladus>	You can toss a grenade and have your sniper shoot it to knock it into your target
13:23:34 <caladus>	Hollywood logic at its best.
13:24:00 <caladus>	Those damn repair bots weren't doing their job. Broken platforms. Sheesh.
13:24:01 <koshirro>	hahaha
13:24:19 <glenchx>	haha it's like rick perlstein writes fiction
13:24:41 <caladus>	Was that your leg breaking?
13:24:53 <psymong>	cthulugate
13:25:01 <caladus>	cthulhutech
13:25:03 <valet2>	do your novels meet translation to russian?
13:25:10 <rygorous>	Hidden switch under one of the boxes on the other side of the room
13:25:12 <ranavin>	Powers's Declare and Stross's Laundry series are the things that come immediately to mind here
13:25:18 <rygorous>	turns on some force bridges
13:25:33 <azriel1987>	drop down and break the box to find hidden switch
13:25:33 <rygorous>	@ranavin: Also Stross' "Missile Gap" (Cold War/Cosmic Horror)
13:25:35 <koshirro>	there's a switch under a box i think
13:25:39 <caladus>	There's anti grav and yet you have a jet pack. Hmmm.
13:25:48 <sinedio>	Koshiro, yup
13:25:48 <nathandarcy>	Yes, there is
13:26:04 <nathandarcy>	And you can use the skates to jump across.
13:26:15 <austingrossman>	@Rygorous @Ranavin Yes there's a lot of Charles Stross in what I'm doing
13:26:34 <caladus>	ROCKET JUMP. Oh wait. Wrong game.
13:26:53 <tanzanite7>	There are "rocket boots" in the game ;)
13:26:54 <austingrossman>	It's basically A Colder War + Nixon
13:26:55 <therealrocketman>	boost + jump
13:27:08 <kosherx>	System Shock speedrun, suport this idea BloodTrail
13:27:12 <therealrocketman>	skate secondary function
13:27:28 <caladus>	Speedruns would be luck based considering some of these twitchy jump puzzles.
13:27:41 <rygorous>	@Austingrossman: Oh right, forgot about A Colder War. Man, that one was dark. :)
13:27:44 <caladus>	'Highest' Floor.
13:28:51 <ranavin>	austingrossman: I am so there
13:29:03 <koshirro>	sounds like you are setting up a joke
13:29:14 <austingrossman>	https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/isnt-petition-response-youre-looking
13:29:19 <dsfinp>	Can you use some drug to give you more speed to do this jump?
13:29:30 <therealrocketman>	BOOST
13:29:38 <rustbyte>	@Austingrossman where can one pickup this book when it comes out? Amazon?
13:29:44 <dsfinp>	does he have it?
13:29:46 <ranavin>	dsfinp: boost helps, turning on the force bridges helps a lot more
13:29:49 <therealrocketman>	dunno
13:29:57 <therealrocketman>	he has to right click on skate
13:30:16 <ranavin>	Mahk, please turn on the force bridges
13:30:16 <tanzanite7>	The force bridge sound loop is quite annoying.
13:30:17 <nathandarcy>	Don't you have the V2 skates?
13:30:17 <dsfinp>	if he§s got skates he really should use it
13:30:24 <ranavin>	tanzanite7: oh god, I'd forgotten about that
13:30:26 <glenchx>	hahahaha
13:30:28 <therealrocketman>	lol
13:30:35 <glenchx>	"rollerskates on for this super long jump"
13:30:42 <jasohavents>	SAVE!!!!!
13:30:46 <namelessvoice>	I always throw all of them down
13:30:52 <koshirro>	yeah
13:31:12 <austingrossman>	@rustbyte June 2015 (Book publishing has a lot of lag)
13:31:19 <tanzanite7>	WOW... no annoying sound-loop :D ... did not know one can even make that jump.
13:31:21 <caladus>	Yay! Antenna rooms!
13:31:34 <therealrocketman>	BOOM!
13:31:36 <rustbyte>	@Austingrossman ok cool :)
13:31:49 <caladus>	Good thing C4 doesn't blow up when you toss it.
13:31:58 <therealrocketman>	see no falling damage :)
13:32:14 <sinedio>	auto-help is awesome
13:32:15 <koshirro>	nah, c4 is pretty stable
13:32:18 <tanzanite7>	There are FOUR lights ... erm ... antenna.
13:32:28 <koshirro>	it just goes splat if you drop it
13:33:14 <caladus>	I just backed Bedlam.
13:33:27 <koshirro>	btw, does anyone gif of that shodan face that you see on the wall there
13:33:29 <caladus>	Fallout-y rougelike. What could go wrong?
13:33:36 <caladus>	Except me tossing my laptop out a window.
13:33:36 <glenchx>	what are some of the developers' favorite games aside from ones inspired by bioshock?
13:34:19 <caladus>	Lol
13:34:33 <caladus>	The 2nd one was alright. Just not up to par as far as I was concerned for Deus Ex.
13:34:34 <dysoco>	Were you a programmer for the game? if so, which was the hardest bug you had to debug?
13:34:46 <rustbyte>	Given the ending of System Shock2, if SS3 would have happened, how do you envision the story continuing? Was anything planned for it design/story wise?
13:35:29 <caladus>	Spoilers : SHODAN would probably be in it as some sort of weird human hybrid thing.
13:35:57 <caladus>	Yeah abstracting the factions was a bad idea.
13:36:02 <nothings2>	@Rustbyte That was asked last week, and we had no good answer, so not worth repeating. :)
13:36:05 <nathandarcy>	There's something that I always wanted to know: what's the deal with the 'Docile' Exec-bot we find on the Engineering level? It's the only docile enemy we find in the whole game.
13:36:13 <rygorous>	Sounds like a good mission statement for an activist group.
13:36:16 <caladus>	Give Stealth faction an awesome name like Shadowcloaks or some crap.
13:36:18 <drtwox>	@Rustbyte I asked this last stream, but didn't quite get an answer; instead they spoke about the legal issues around the System Shock name. I would really like this question answered.
13:36:20 <rygorous>	"Not furthering agendas through incompetence."
13:36:57 <rustbyte>	oh i thought the question last time was more on "Is SS3 still possible?" rather then what it would be like if it did happen, or if there were any early plans for it
13:36:57 <nothings2>	It's more a question for the SS2 team, anyway.
13:37:01 <caladus>	The legal red tape is simply far too complex to unreavel without some huge resource expenditure.
13:38:09 <unn_atropos>	who voiced sabo?
13:38:18 <drtwox>	@Nothings2 Good point!
13:38:24 <drtwox>	Will wait for the SS2 stream ;)
13:38:26 <ranavin>	Star Control 2! Awesome game.
13:38:34 <ranavin>	Good friend of mine is one of the UQM developers.
13:38:34 <rygorous>	Okay, why turn shield *off* before you go into an encounter? :)
13:38:53 <psymong>	love star control 2
13:38:57 <caladus>	I have that installed here.
13:39:03 <psymong>	scottish pterodactyls, whats not to like?
13:39:16 <ranavin>	The Ur-Quan Masters link: http://sc2.sourceforge.net/
13:39:27 <bureaucratique>	Yes!  Star Control 2 is Amazing
13:39:35 <caladus>	I still have the Yehat music somehwere.
13:39:37 <ranavin>	It's kind of a blend of the best parts of the PC and 3DO versions, and yes it has voices for everything.
13:39:48 <bureaucratique>	You can change various setting on the Ur-Quan Masters to mimic the various versions
13:39:57 <psymong>	the voices are great
13:40:09 <drtwox>	That little kids voice makes the game seem a bit more creepy ;)
13:40:10 <psymong>	juffo wup flows
13:40:23 <bureaucratique>	We grow turgid!
13:40:36 <psymong>	:)
13:41:10 <bureaucratique>	Skipped school many a times to play Star Control 2
13:41:10 <arghks>	you are non
13:41:35 <koshirro>	so those lift puzzles are only there to compensate?
13:43:09 <cybergen>	i like that the magnum looks like the nintendo zapper
13:43:11 <rygorous>	SAVE
13:43:18 <ranavin>	HEAL
13:43:27 <koshirro>	no progress made from last save yet
13:43:37 <caladus>	Detox?
13:43:58 <therealrocketman>	Amnesia Dark Descent
13:44:25 <cybergen>	oculus demos all day
13:44:33 <rygorous>	Crypt of the Necrodancer, not tomb! :)
13:44:49 <bureaucratique>	Necrodancer is pretty cool
13:44:56 <drtwox>	Necrodancer is really fun.
13:45:06 <drtwox>	Would live to try it on a dance mat!
13:45:42 <therealrocketman>	Crazy Jesus Guy
13:45:42 <unn_atropos>	who voiced macleod?
13:45:44 <drtwox>	http://necrodancer.com/ (Not affiliated in any way)
13:45:47 <bureaucratique>	Everyone knows ESDF is the one true way
13:45:58 <cybergen>	yeah, you're totally right
13:46:12 <rygorous>	Nice jump, human.
13:46:13 <therealrocketman>	BOOOSTTTTTT
13:46:13 <cybergen>	esdf is so much better, i love having more buttons for my pinky
13:46:13 <austingrossman>	@Rygorous you are correct!
13:46:14 <ranavin>	Yesssssssss
13:46:16 <therealrocketman>	BOOOOOOOOSSST
13:46:20 <therealrocketman>	:D
13:46:25 <bureaucratique>	It's home row
13:46:26 <ranavin>	This is one of my favourite rooms, and hands down my favourite in deck 4
13:46:31 <drtwox>	ESDF? Bah! ESCF For Life!
13:46:37 <cb1523>	Is this being played in a higher res than the first part?
13:46:42 <koshirro>	i love this part
13:46:45 <cybergen>	shodannnn
13:46:51 <psymong>	sweet skateboard ramp bro
13:46:54 <rustbyte>	shodamn
13:46:56 <ranavin>	cb1523: yes.
13:47:08 <therealrocketman>	use the boost guys :D   You fly GOOD
13:47:13 <triggerftu>	nice
13:47:18 <cb1523>	Sweet.
13:47:21 <cybergen>	best skiing sim
13:47:34 <triggerftu>	man i havn't played this in ages
13:47:52 <valet2>	magpulse?
13:47:55 <cb1523>	I just started again after part 1
13:48:07 <thoth7>	I just played this again like... a year ago. It's a trip going back
13:48:09 <koshirro>	try not to talk during these traps
13:48:09 <ranavin>	The first time I played Shock that bit caught me completely flat-footed. It was great.
13:48:36 <glenchx>	you guys should have added a yeti chasing you down the ski jump :P
13:48:51 <cybergen>	system shock was originally a sequel to skifree
13:48:59 <rustbyte>	Followed by a giant rolling snowball
13:49:21 <cb1523>	Eddie the Eagle Shodan
13:49:24 <rygorous>	@rustbyte: And Willy Bogner with an Uzi.
13:49:29 <cybergen>	WILSOn
13:49:34 <bureaucratique>	What are thoughts on the UI?  Do choices made still stand?
13:49:35 <nothings2>	@Cb1523 We're in 800x600 res. 1024x768 is too slow in dosbox.
13:49:35 <rustbyte>	Oh god yes!
13:50:05 <ranavin>	I tried it in 1280x960 once and it was *really* slow. And crashy.
13:50:33 <cybergen>	ah nice
13:50:44 <cb1523>	It must depend on the machine. It's the res I'm playing in and it works pretty well, and that's dosbox in a VM.
13:50:46 <cybergen>	i played doom 1 and 2 with a mouse a few years back - it's so easy
13:50:58 <cybergen>	you completely crush everything
13:51:15 <thoth7>	yeah. playing this using the portable version with the mouselook mod works really well
13:51:38 <cb1523>	I actually really like that the UI is more complex than current games. Adds to the technical skill element of playing.
13:51:42 <triggerftu>	i hate to say it but thats how i played it. classic. "modern" controls took me a while to getting use to.
13:51:50 <rustbyte>	SS1 really should have had gladiator-mice, my only complaint on the game.
13:51:54 caladus canageek cargide cb1523 chuckfiniey cybergen
13:51:58 <azriel1987>	yeah but cyberspace is really hard with the mouselook
13:52:03 <ranavin>	cb1523: this was, to be fair, back in 2005
13:52:06 <bureaucratique>	I'm trying to think of other FPS with more stuff on screen than there is now.
13:52:06 <cb1523>	Yeah, I think I'm using the portable version. Maybe it's optimised somehow.
13:52:20 <thoth7>	that's why there's a quick-toggle to turn it off, Azriel
13:52:23 <nothings2>	afk for a bit
13:52:30 <ranavin>	Dosbox has improved a lot since then
13:53:11 <cb1523>	Yeah, that's true. Back then you'd have been better with actual DOS! :p
13:53:17 <ranavin>	cb1523: possible, I don't know if Malba Tahan made any improvements to the high-res code when he added the mouselook and keybinding features
13:53:24 <ranavin>	Because he won't release the source code
13:53:28 <ranavin>	:shakes fist angrily:
13:53:36 <drtwox>	@Nothings2 You guys joked earlier about believing voice email was the future of communication; was cyberspace envisaged in the same way?
13:53:50 <glenchx>	this music :D
13:54:11 <rustbyte>	@Drtwox are you claiming that real cyberspace doesn't actually look like that!?
13:54:23 <nothings2>	There was plenty of joking about that last week.
13:54:27 <cb1523>	I think lots of people saw cyberspace the same way in the nineties - very blocky and influenced by tron, maybe?
13:54:31 <ranavin>	Occasionally I regret not releasing the original patch under GPL or something.
13:54:38 <nothings2>	In practice, cyberspace is the exact same graphics engine as the regular one, just with wireframe rendering.
13:54:41 <dysoco>	Is this game opensource?
13:54:47 <nothings2>	So I think it was less a vision and more a convience.
13:54:47 <ranavin>	Switch puzzles! Aka the actually fun puzzles.
13:54:48 <cb1523>	The online help made me pick up a live mine too. My fail!
13:54:50 <ranavin>	dysoco: sadly no
13:54:55 <dysoco>	oh too bad
13:55:12 <ranavin>	dysoco: the high res, mouselook and key binding patches have been created via dedicated reverse engineering
13:55:19 <caladus>	Pick up live mine! NO! BAD HELP!
13:55:24 <dysoco>	Yeah I assumed so
13:55:30 <rygorous>	@cb1523: Didn't this game teach you not to trust everything a computer tells you?
13:55:47 <ranavin>	dysoco: source code for the high res patch is still available on TTLG: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100041
13:56:13 <cb1523>	Me? I was always on Shodan's side. I, for one, welcome our deranged AI overlords.
13:56:19 <valet2>	Ranavin, mouselook, key patch and hires work in real dos with no problem, right? I'm gonna re-play the whole game on a low-end machine.
13:56:20 <ranavin>	There's no source available for the unified patch that adds mouselook and keybindings.
13:56:42 <ranavin>	valet2: I believe so, they're meant to be used in dosbox; the high res patch definitely does, since I tested it on a real DOS machine at one point.
13:56:52 <rustbyte>	@Valet2 agree, the speed in which desicions would be made is worth it
13:56:53 <ranavin>	I've never used the keybinding or mouselook patches but I'd assume they work too
13:57:02 <caladus>	I don't know about you but I always sleep with plastique under my pillow.
13:57:03 <rygorous>	That camera didn't die!
13:57:03 <rustbyte>	easily outweighs any risks
13:57:04 <rygorous>	Try again
13:57:16 <azriel1987>	this game really got a feel of a metroidvania game
13:57:17 <caladus>	With plastique.
13:57:34 <battlepencil>	sec cam in that room?
13:57:45 <rygorous>	Hey! That one security cam is still around!
13:57:53 <koshirro>	the camera didn't blow up
13:58:06 <jasohavents>	LEFT THE CAM UP!!!
13:58:19 <cb1523>	Go back!
13:58:25 <caladus>	Use a bomb to make sure
13:58:34 <ranavin>	Use a grenade!
13:58:38 <rygorous>	Just aim the laser at it
13:58:46 <rygorous>	Oh damn, we already blew it up. Never mind.
13:58:46 <koshirro>	OVERKILL THAT CAMERA
13:58:54 <koshirro>	magpulse the camera
13:58:54 <ranavin>	It's kind of reassuring to know that the SS1 devs have the same problem I do of arming a grenade and then flinging it directly into the ceiling.
13:58:55 <jasohavents>	BLOW IT UP!
13:59:10 <caladus>	Stupid SHODAN. Eat that.
13:59:12 <battlepencil>	yeah Kappa
13:59:14 <cb1523>	Use the station laser on camera.
13:59:31 <valet2>	A QUESTION TO DEVS, while I still remember: how the intro and other cinematics were made? What software, who created the stuff, was it difficult to render?
13:59:32 <ranavin>	"You have reached true decadence in System Shock when you run around shooting cameras with the Magnum because you have nothing less powerful"
13:59:39 <rygorous>	@cb1523: "These two things don't work together."
13:59:42 <glenchx>	wow look at this pro movement
14:00:13 <ranavin>	Jumpjets! The key to completely skipping deck 8, if that's how you roll.
14:00:25 <cb1523>	@Ryg: heh.
14:00:41 <rygorous>	@ranavin: Or throwing a grenade into the wall you're facing because you didn't aim left/right far enough.
14:01:01 <caladus>	Elevator music!
14:01:04 <valet2>	They look really good!
14:01:10 <jiggawattz121>	oh man, Alias/Wavefront, that brings back memories
14:01:22 <drtwox>	@nothings2 What did you guys dev on back then? Compilers and editors and such.
14:01:36 <rygorous>	DOS/4GW so compiler was Watcom C :)
14:01:45 <rustbyte>	Watcom was used for this i think right?
14:01:46 <azriel1987>	yeah! invisamutent again
14:02:16 <rygorous>	And it got mentioned last time that they used RCS for source control.
14:02:46 <koshirro>	man, i was like biggest ratm fan in 90's
14:02:46 <dysoco>	Did you use tabs or spaces?
14:02:58 <drtwox>	@Dysoco lol
14:03:05 <ranavin>	Deck 6, Executive Quarters: http://funkyhorror.ancilla.ca/toxicfrog/ss1/maps/map.html#6,*
14:03:07 <bureaucratique>	Clearly spaces
14:03:13 <dysoco>	I hope
14:03:15 <drtwox>	EMACS or Vi?
14:03:17 <bureaucratique>	these people are professionals
14:03:18 <rygorous>	Oh yes, and did you indent with 3 spaces? :)
14:03:22 <cb1523>	This level looks like a lot of SS2
14:03:35 <rygorous>	Because @nothings2 has been saying "I blame Looking Glass" about this for years. :)
14:05:29 <skacky>	thirlwell made the soundtrack for the venture bros
14:05:31 <arghks>	and most importantly, was the opening brace for a function on its own line?
14:05:47 <bureaucratique>	yeah, Foetus is fun
14:06:02 <cb1523>	I love Troublegum!
14:06:24 <therealrocketman>	CORTEX REAVER
14:06:28 <rustbyte>	Flight deck go for it
14:06:33 <nothings2>	@rygorous i'm checking mfdgames.c
14:06:34 <azriel1987>	Nahh...Im sure they OK
14:06:40 <cb1523>	Go flt deck
14:06:59 <nothings2>	yep, 3-space indentation
14:07:09 <rygorous>	@nothings2: haha. ok :)
14:07:17 <dysoco>	3 spaces?! Why not 2 or 4? that's crazy ;_;
14:07:38 <cb1523>	A bigger, MUCH MORE AWESOME sparq beam.
14:07:38 <datrebb>	best of both worlds Kappa
14:07:53 <jordanrodkey>	OH you're in an elevator.
14:08:01 <ranavin>	Deck 5, Flight Deck: http://funkyhorror.ancilla.ca/toxicfrog/ss1/maps/map.html#5,*
14:08:02 <rustbyte>	you Macarena to elevator music
14:08:10 <therealrocketman>	She's hot
14:08:13 <ranavin>	Right in the middle at (32,28)
14:08:17 <drtwox>	I always hated the elevator music; it is elevator music after all!
14:08:21 <therealrocketman>	Who did Parovski?
14:08:27 <glenchx>	I love getting emails with the subject line "not much time"
14:08:52 <drtwox>	@Glenchx I have just enough time to dictate this long email and save my ***.
14:08:55 <cb1523>	Spoiler: they can't hold.
14:09:03 <bbuuxx>	the never used priority header
14:09:25 <cb1523>	^^
14:09:27 <ranavin>	Mahk et al: any chance you could talk about the Cortex Reaver's secondary weapon that we never actually see it use?
14:10:05 <glenchx>	what is this puzzle? just guess and check?
14:10:35 <koshirro>	was the mac version done in studio or was it outsourced? also why no system shock 2 for mac when it was released?
14:10:41 <cb1523>	I think so. I just do combinations on the wire puzzles.
14:11:05 <rygorous>	Lamba Expressway at @Nothings2's site: http://nothings.org/music/misc/lambda_expressway.mp3
14:11:10 <rygorous>	Lambda
14:11:14 <ranavin>	glenchx: they said something last stream about it actually being Mastermind under the hood, but it doesn't give you enough info to actually solve it as mastermind, so...
14:11:14 <therealrocketman>	Oh yeah talk about the cortex reavers
14:11:45 <jasohavents>	Yeah I want to know about the Cortex reavers and their secondary wep that was cancelled?
14:12:04 <ranavin>	jasohavents: oh, it wasn't canceled per se, it's still in the game and they can still use it
14:12:13 <ranavin>	jasohavents: but it's a long-range weapon and you only ever fight them at short range.
14:12:21 <jasohavents>	huh
14:12:23 <jasohavents>	nice
14:12:52 <therealrocketman>	why didn't you put one in a hallway or open space?
14:13:04 <jordanrodkey>	Will this stream be archived anywhere?
14:13:23 <thoth7>	it'll be auto-archived right here on Twitch for a few days at least
14:13:23 <ranavin>	That's me, and yes, that's how I did it
14:13:23 <rygorous>	@Jordanrodkey it'll go up on https://www.youtube.com/user/algorithmancyTube/videos like the first part I hope!
14:13:30 <drtwox>	@Jordanrodkey It will be in Cyberspace
14:13:32 <thoth7>	not sure if they have long-term archive plans
14:13:53 <ranavin>	Source code: https://github.com/toxicfrog/ss1edit
14:14:10 <ranavin>	And mad props to the TSSHP team, without their ss-specs.txt as a starting point I never would have been able to write this
14:14:13 <koshirro>	last stream was uploaded on youtube so i assume this will be too
14:14:19 <azriel1987>	 Cortex Reaver = Party Escort Robot
14:14:27 <koshirro>	^
14:15:06 <jasohavents>	no Azriel... Cortex reavers = much more badass.
14:15:38 <koshirro>	that glados party escort robot line reminded me of the compliment shodan gives you after exploding the earth
14:15:38 <valet2>	!save!
14:16:00 <cb1523>	Yeah, save!
14:16:46 <rygorous>	Raycasts are for the weak!
14:19:36 <rygorous>	"Whenever it looks like we might be setting you up for a cruel practical joke, we are." (from last week)
14:19:51 <koshirro>	karma cast
14:19:57 <psymong>	Q: what are your guys favorite ancillary characters from this?
14:19:59 <ranavin>	algorithmancy: re: people in the modding community who deserve props: the TSSHP team isn't really around anymore, but without their work reverse engineering the file formats I never would have written the mapper, and I suspect a lot of other SS1 modders got started with their ss-specs.txt.
14:20:10 <arbiejnr>	Great to be watching this game. Love LGS games and everything you've worked on. :)
14:20:22 <azriel1987>	"Assume the party escort submission position or you will miss the party"-GLaDOS"Thank you, human. You have saved my cyborgs some effort by initiating the destruction of Earth's faulty civilizatoin yourself. Please wait where you are, and a cortex reaver will be along shortly to escort you to the celebration"-Shodan
14:20:40 <kosherx>	low health!
14:21:30 <unn_atropos>	https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=6977.0
14:21:32 <kosherx>	a fan remake? cool!
14:21:42 <sinedio>	http://www.indiedb.com/games/citadel
14:21:43 <ranavin>	kosherx: in the Darkplaces open-source Quake 1 engine, yeah
14:22:05 <voodoo47>	JosuahJack
14:22:10 <voodoo47>	JosiahJack
14:22:13 <ranavin>	I refuse to get excited until it's actually playable, because this is like SS1 remake #12 and all of the others either lost steam halfway through or got cease-and-desisted into a smoking crater.
14:22:22 <ranavin>	But it does look super cool.
14:22:27 <skacky>	yeah it's made with the new hammer/radiant mashup jackhammer
14:22:28 <rygorous>	Also, I'm not sure Shock is a good game for 4-year olds :)
14:22:45 <skacky>	I wonder how cyberspace will be made
14:22:56 <koshirro>	i was 6 when i first played this
14:23:03 <kosherx>	4 years old playing system shock? yeah, i'm that naive.
14:23:29 <koshirro>	lol austin
14:23:32 <rygorous>	Skacky: launches a web browser? :)
14:23:45 <therealrocketman>	Cyboyster
14:24:00 <namelessvoice>	Did they make something that wasn't Medical yet?
14:24:12 <bbuuxx>	the textures need a remaster but keep the audio for the fan version
14:24:13 <ranavin>	skacky: the engine is pretty flexible, but I don't know if it's 6DOF flexible -- you could get close with wireframe textures and zero gravity, though
14:24:19 <namelessvoice>	Most of the remakes just start making Medical and then slowly fade away
14:24:22 <azriel1987>	how is the hitbox work in this game?
14:24:30 <therealrocketman>	001
14:24:34 <namelessvoice>	The textures in SS1 are actually....  very senseless
14:24:36 <drtwox>	Been years since I played this: Why is the character in the top left now purple when before it was orange?
14:24:44 <ranavin>	drtwox: hazard suit.
14:24:44 <datrebb>	i imagine the shock-guy to dramatically side-step "lean" in a "space aerobics" kind of way
14:24:44 <cb1523>	enviro suit
14:24:46 <therealrocketman>	OH OH I HAVE A QUESTION
14:24:48 <rygorous>	@drtwox: Enviro-suit
14:24:50 <skacky>	Ranavin I'm very familiar with the quake engine so if they manage to pull cyberspace off I'll be super impressed
14:24:53 <therealrocketman>	how did you do the steven hawking voice
14:24:53 <ranavin>	drtwox: it changes colour as you get upgraded protective suits.
14:24:59 <namelessvoice>	If you try to make high-res version of them, you realise that they don't really make sense
14:25:04 <rygorous>	@drtwox: Reduces radiation/biohazard damage
14:25:06 <kosherx>	let your daughter play system shock Kappa
14:25:07 <namelessvoice>	Like Medical being covered in strange rubber panels
14:25:09 <therealrocketman>	how did you do it?
14:25:10 <unn_atropos>	@Drtwox he has an hazard suit on
14:25:11 <skacky>	because right now I have no idea how they'll make it work like in SS1
14:25:25 <uhee>	hitbox is made out of two spheres, according to first stream
14:25:34 <drtwox>	Oh yeah! I remember now. The Stream only has 50% of my attention so sorry for missing that one.
14:25:40 <ranavin>	skacky: upon entering c/space, it actually activates a copy of D2X-Rebirth Descent engine? :P
14:25:46 <therealrocketman>	Do you have one I can buy?
14:25:48 <azriel1987>	im mean the enemies hitbox
14:25:54 <therealrocketman>	"Please pass the pie"
14:26:29 <psymong>	that 'cyborg conversion cancelled line' has been burnt into my brain for the majority of my adult life
14:26:46 <ranavin>	Likewise.
14:27:07 <ranavin>	When I played SS1 for my wife earlier in the year, we'd both chant the line along with the game whenever I activated a jellomould.
14:27:11 <glenchx>	it was just the computer chassis history museum, but it's gotten a little bit better about showing software
14:27:42 <rygorous>	Okay, that's great :)
14:27:45 <rygorous>	Museumception
14:27:51 <ranavin>	Happy birthday, Mahk!
14:28:00 <jasohavents>	Happy birthday!
14:28:00 <azriel1987>	happy birthday!
14:28:04 <voodoo47>	you don't sound 45
14:28:05 <gsrc>	oh man, System Shock was my favorite of all time. Including System Shock 2. THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH FOR MY CHILDHOOD SCIFI!
14:28:10 <therealrocketman>	You can write "Half-Life" on your cake!
14:28:11 <rygorous>	Happy birthday!
14:28:13 <gsrc>	Happy Birthday!
14:28:28 <therealrocketman>	assuming you live to 90
14:29:19 <koshirro>	yeah i was going to say gone home
14:29:48 <bbuuxx>	What movies had the most influence on System Shock?
14:29:58 <uhee>	How does the quasi-phong-shading work in this game?
14:30:25 <uhee>	I guess there are tons of details to the lighting. perhaps it has been discussed before toh.
14:30:48 <koshirro>	my guess would be alien/aliens, blade runner, star trek, tron, star wars...
14:30:55 <rygorous>	256-color paletted
14:31:09 <koshirro>	maybe robocop?
14:31:10 <jasohavents>	Your memos are never good!
14:31:15 <rygorous>	Lighting in that setting is usually just a lookup table new_color=lut[old_color][light_level]
14:31:27 <gsrc>	What I loved about System Shock 1 was the verticality of the levels. Its not just straight horizontal and there are so many times you have to move up/down.
14:31:51 <rygorous>	well, new_color=lit_color, old_color=unlit_color here
14:32:46 <timstellmach>	Jaemz had some black magic in there to do some dithering, but basically yes.
14:33:09 <koshirro>	i though that effect would have been way more taxing for the system
14:33:12 <koshirro>	interesting
14:33:12 <lordulmo>	Wasn't this game contemporary with Doom?  It's lightyears beyond what Doom accomplished...
14:33:40 <gsrc>	yeah, this destroyed Doom in capability in my mind
14:33:43 <uhee>	yeah. but what i noticed when i first played it was that it has "circular" shading, but not quite able to point on what it does
14:33:57 <timstellmach>	Doom was a little less than a year before.
14:34:25 <uhee>	yeah. the translucent bridge etc is probably just painting with a lut as well
14:34:28 <drtwox>	@Lordulmo I said this last stream; pointless comparing the two. Totally different games with different gameplay goals and both were awesome!
14:35:26 <koshirro>	thief 1 had the blooper level
14:35:31 <lordulmo>	@Drtwox Fair enough.  I wish I'd gotten this instead of Doom though.
14:35:40 <rygorous>	Uhee: just plain Gouraud (vertex lighting) can do that :)
14:35:51 <lordulmo>	Only first heard of the series when SS2 came out
14:36:13 <rygorous>	if you do it "correctly" with RGB colors it's pretty obvious, but the 256-color quantization hides some sins
14:36:32 <koshirro>	i tried to make my friends by ss2 because i didn't have a pc at the time because i loved ss1
14:36:35 <gsrc>	Were there any features or elements of System Shock 1 that made it to System Shock 2?
14:36:41 <koshirro>	i didn't play ss2 until like 2001...
14:36:44 <rygorous>	and you can make your lighting tables a bit "warpy" to make it look better
14:37:02 <unn_atropos>	shade of grey
14:37:04 <ranavin>	rygorous: similar, I found SS2 in the bargain bin and picked it up vaguely recalling it mentioned in a webcomic I'd read years ago
14:37:10 <ranavin>	Best $5 I've ever spent on a video game
14:37:17 <uhee>	rygerous: Hmm but gouraud wouldn't be "circular"?
14:37:45 <gsrc>	err I meant, were there any features fo System Shock 1 that you WISHED had made ti to System Shock 2. For me i wish the character movement system would have been great
14:38:01 <koshirro>	aahaha
14:38:20 <valet2>	save
14:39:39 <rygorous>	Uhee: No, Gouraud can look circular enough if you're not undersampling too badly.
14:40:00 <unn_atropos>	cortex reaver!
14:40:06 <azriel1987>	can you make him use the long range attack?
14:40:06 <cb1523>	reaver!
14:40:25 <valet2>	save and show the second reaver's weapon
14:40:44 <nathandarcy>	Not very smart standing in front of him though. His secondary weapon is harmful enough :D
14:41:36 <cb1523>	EMP it!
14:42:12 <cb1523>	EMP FTW
14:42:30 <azriel1987>	have you seen/played the fan made The Dark Mod?
14:42:41 <landrosradick>	^^^^^^^^^
14:42:50 <lordulmo>	I take it item balance is bad in SS1?
14:42:55 <koshirro>	tdm is so good
14:43:19 <uhee>	insane game breaking item balance was a feature back then
14:43:29 <landrosradick>	hey thats the prominent Half Life siren!
14:43:45 <lordulmo>	XD  I'm afraid I was too young to appreciate item balance.  OP weapons made me lol.
14:44:00 <unn_atropos>	whats the name of the sound library you used for the game?
14:44:15 <cb1523>	SHODAN == Google
14:44:34 <koshirro>	and now there's a search engine called shodan
14:44:44 <koshirro>	prophecy fulfilled
14:44:49 <cb1523>	^^
14:44:54 <azriel1987>	in the "future" they must forgot about anti-virus
14:45:32 <jiggawattz121>	YOU HAVE BOOTS
14:45:39 <koshirro>	forcebridge puzzle
14:45:40 <lordulmo>	Would you look at seriously remaking this game and it's sequel if you had the opportunity?
14:45:52 <nathandarcy>	You should fiddle with the switches down there to build a decent path
14:46:03 <jasohavents>	YOUR SHIELD IS ON
14:46:04 <nathandarcy>	Switches 1,2, 4 and 5
14:46:07 <dsfinp>	turn off the shield :-)
14:46:09 <jasohavents>	Draining your bat pretty bat
14:46:14 <jiggawattz121>	Lordulmo: the said in the last one that rights are split between two companies, and it would be difficult to get them to even figure out what would need to be done to release the rights
14:46:32 <dsfinp>	hey, the shield :-)
14:46:48 <rustbyte>	Could use a kickstarter to "free the IP" first ;)
14:46:52 <lordulmo>	Gotcha.   Sorreh, came here following a link on twitter and didn't even realize there was a previous stream ;;^.^
14:47:05 <nathandarcy>	1, 2, 4, and 5
14:47:14 <jiggawattz121>	Lordulmo: no worries, just trying to help answer stuff :)
14:47:26 <lordulmo>	Yus, I appreciate the answers
14:47:52 <nathandarcy>	Switches 1, 2, 4 and 5
14:47:56 <landrosradick>	lol @ Shodanhq.com
14:48:15 <rygorous>	@Lordulmo: https://www.youtube.com/user/algorithmancyTube/videos is the previous stream.
14:48:16 <jiggawattz121>	it's a shame, I think you could great updated versions of both games :(
14:48:40 <azriel1987>	the licence is in the hand of two devils - one is a lawyer office and another is EA
14:48:48 <lordulmo>	@Rygorous thanks, I'll watch that later
14:49:12 <ranavin>	Asfghl. I'm trying to add a link to the source code to the map page and it is just not cooperating.
14:49:15 <ranavin>	I hate HTML.
14:49:41 <namelessvoice>	If you want to do something like that, better to have a computer screen showing a camera fixed on the thing that changes
14:49:49 <namelessvoice>	So you get to both show the chnage
14:49:54 <namelessvoice>	but also not break immersion
14:50:12 <rygorous>	Well in this case it's literally right in front of the thing that changes
14:50:19 <cb1523>	Yeah, SS1 makes good use of cameras to show things. Were usable cameras hard to implement, or novel at the time?
14:50:22 <rustbyte>	is that "Black Mesa" alert i just heard? :D
14:50:39 <lordulmo>	Fable three had a button you could press to shift view to whatever important view was relevant.  That sounds like a nice compromise
14:51:18 <koshirro>	"nice job breaking it, hero"
14:52:07 <ranavin>	I'd also be interested to hear chat about the implementation of the cameras and camera screens.
14:52:14 <rustbyte>	well steam has "Goat Simulator" so that wouldnt shock anyone ;)
14:52:14 <azriel1987>	switch simulator 2014
14:52:16 <lordulmo>	#WhatdoesthatswitchdoKS2015
14:52:18 <ranavin>	And if you knew about the camera-of-death bug :D
14:52:45 <glenchx>	I've heard several software designers, including alan kay, complain about the sole focus on "easy to use"
14:52:56 <ranavin>	Bouncing energy weapon: that's the LG-XX plasma rifle and it's on Deck 8.
14:53:10 <ranavin>	You need to get level security down really, really low to get it.
14:53:31 <ranavin>	Open the map and search all for "LG-XX" and it'll show up.
14:53:40 <azriel1987>	plasma rifle - a weapon that shot ball of energy that bounce back at you and kill you
14:53:44 <rustbyte>	Internet? You mean that dial-up thing from the ninties? I thought that was just for nerds!
14:53:55 <koshirro>	we are the cyberspace
14:53:59 <koshirro>	we know
14:54:00 <ranavin>	My crowning achievement with that weapon is the time I got to the end of deck 8 and, in one shot, took out both of Diego's bodyguards, Diego himself, and then, as I stepped forward to loot the bodies, myself.
14:54:13 <cb1523>	Nice.
14:54:24 <rygorous>	Rustbyte: You mean that thing that I can use to send mails to people at universities who aren't on FIDOnet?
14:54:41 <landrosradick>	HAHA
14:54:42 <rustbyte>	Yea that!
14:55:06 <namelessvoice>	Because a chandelier costs so much compared to a space station
14:55:50 <koshirro>	did you miss an audiolog?
14:56:29 <landrosradick>	The fact you guys even did that Skybox rotate is massive attention to detail
14:57:41 <rygorous>	GANTT chart: antialiased stars are on critical path.
14:58:28 <voodoo47>	Corte
14:58:30 <voodoo47>	z
14:58:36 <voodoo47>	Cortez
14:58:57 <voodoo47>	yeah, those are Tommy and Becca
14:59:01 <vognsen>	DUMP = TAKEN
14:59:04 <kaiserpanda>	*** i love the music, also http://www.chicajo.com/chiframe.html
14:59:06 <uhee>	the stars were antialiased?
14:59:11 <rygorous>	Mostly they're always on the run.
14:59:41 <rygorous>	Like you're supposed to meet Atlas at the fisheries but he has to flee at the last minute etc.
15:00:05 <landrosradick>	If you guys had the chance and the technology today, what would you do to improve or change of System Shock 1? Not counting Bioshocks or SS2.
15:00:12 <rygorous>	You see him as a NPC running away but can't interact directly with him.
15:00:36 <koshirro>	chicajo's reactor overload remix kicks ***
15:00:48 <kosherx>	multiplayer in SS1 nowadays would be nice :)
15:01:00 <vognsen>	'HERE, CATCH'
15:01:17 <landrosradick>	a co-opable SS1 where players start on different decks but can affect systems on their other decks?
15:01:20 <landrosradick>	that would be awesome
15:01:28 <vognsen>	i actually thought the repetitiveness of elizabeth's catch phrases was some of the most obnoxious in any game i've played
15:01:40 <kosherx>	that could work, too
15:02:08 <azriel1987>	How many people in total worked on SS1?
15:02:48 <landrosradick>	http://www.mobygames.com/game/system-shock
15:03:20 <rygorous>	or just do credits on next death
15:03:24 <myuumi>	faget
15:03:24 <rygorous>	when you're on the main menu anyway
15:03:25 <kosherx>	mobygames is still online? i thought it was dead by now
15:03:43 <landrosradick>	oh man, I hope not
15:03:51 <vognsen>	that seems like a pretty big team for the time
15:04:34 <kaiserpanda>	ow
15:04:40 <jiggawattz121>	oh god
15:04:45 <lordulmo>	XD
15:04:46 <rygorous>	still hearing you
15:04:47 <rustbyte>	Shodan hacked ur skypes
15:04:47 <lordulmo>	Dat delay
15:04:58 <myuumi>	damn u incompetent fools
15:05:02 <myuumi>	#faget
15:05:04 <psymong>	someone had to hear themselves talk
15:05:06 <psymong>	;)
15:05:10 <jiggawattz121>	wtf
15:05:15 <landrosradick>	haha
15:05:17 <landrosradick>	everytime you play it
15:05:19 <myuumi>	lol #faget
15:05:25 <psymong>	deigo IS an narcessist
15:05:39 <unn_atropos>	who played diego?
15:05:41 <kaurtube40>	Lets play that log again
15:05:43 <koshirro>	austin
15:05:56 <datrebb>	it's obviously steve guttenberg
15:05:57 <dm_7>	audio is crazy lol :D
15:05:58 <jiggawattz121>	use headphones and mic to avoid that
15:06:17 <nothings2>	We just don't know who the guilty party is
15:06:18 <rygorous>	Everything is always under control.
15:07:09 <rygorous>	No feedback so far
15:07:14 <rygorous>	Just go through it one by one?
15:07:25 <rygorous>	And then whoever hears themselves with an echo is the guilty party?
15:07:50 <myuumi>	you're guilty m8
15:08:42 <jasohavents>	missed a weapon by the charge point
15:09:38 <landrosradick>	How were you guys sharing code back then? It seems like it would have been a nightmare without any sort of SVN, Alienbrain or other code check system
15:09:54 <vognsen>	sean, this was before my time, but it sounds like that would have been a large team by gamedev standards at the time?
15:09:57 <nothings2>	cvs on a novell network
15:10:24 <nothings2>	@vognsen reasonably sized, but e.g. Origin didn't consider it a AAA gam
15:10:26 <nothings2>	+e
15:10:28 <landrosradick>	wow
15:10:34 <vognsen>	i was employee #25 at epic in 2003 and 25-30 seemed to be 'standard' for aaa in early-mid 2000s
15:10:45 <ranavin>	Twitch totally lets you connect to the chat via IRC, yes
15:10:49 <myuumi>	that's real neato
15:10:55 <psymong>	i forget, did SS2 have hit direction markers?
15:10:59 <ranavin>	I'll be posting the logs on ss.org once the stream is done unless someone else beats me to it
15:11:06 <jasohavents>	nope Psymong
15:11:28 <psymong>	ah ok
15:11:46 <psymong>	i just had a recollection that that always happens to me a lot in ss1
15:12:08 <rygorous>	It says "obisidan"
15:12:10 <rygorous>	obsidian
15:12:20 <lordulmo>	woooooooooooow
15:12:38 <dm_7>	I love the voice of SHODAN, who was it?
15:12:41 <koshirro>	it's like minecraft
15:12:52 <timstellmach>	SHODAN was voiced by Terri Brosius.
15:12:56 <unn_atropos>	@Dm_7 terri brosius
15:12:57 <uhee>	The chopper in Deus Ex 2
15:13:01 <dm_7>	Thanks all. :)
15:13:02 <rygorous>	@Dm_7: Terri Brosius
15:13:24 <timstellmach>	Recently heard in Dishonored as the voice of the Heart (which I believe she also wrote).
15:14:07 <landrosradick>	I remember back in the earlier 90's, on so many BBSes they had these "VR" games
15:14:11 <koshirro>	the two main evils in this game worked as writers for dishonored (austin and terri)
15:14:21 <vognsen>	how cool is that!
15:14:30 <landrosradick>	where it was just a bunch of open spaces in 3D.. and then I saw this and it completely blew my mind
15:14:40 <ranavin>	WAit
15:14:45 <ranavin>	You can edit the lifegrid by shooting it?
15:14:48 <ranavin>	Mind == blown
15:15:04 <timstellmach>	There were rather a few features in this game.
15:15:05 <arghks>	whaaaa, never noticed the conway's life in cyberspace
15:15:43 <drtwox>	Glider? Lame! Glider Gun!
15:16:26 <koshirro>	i think 8 mins is not enough...
15:17:20 <landrosradick>	there is a new version of that game these days
15:17:39 <landrosradick>	they even have tournaments where you have to get a to a page without googling and starting from a completely unrelated page
15:18:12 <rygorous>	heh, so basically people actually conforming to the browsing model that PageRank assumes :)
15:18:19 <landrosradick>	haha yes
15:18:31 <azriel1987>	use decoy before attacking the ICE
15:20:22 <dsfinp>	SAVE
15:21:10 <rygorous>	Yes, please, more such streams :)
15:21:29 <landrosradick>	Remake SS1 with highpolies and new renderer
15:21:39 <jasohavents>	I have a question. What inspired the gun silhouettes for the inventory? Specifically the MARK3
15:21:40 <ranavin>	Deus Ex original dev livestream: that would be awesome. Although my wife says "organize" is possibly not the right verb considering that this team just spent ten minutes trying to make a glider~
15:21:56 <thoth7>	Thief and Shock 2 would be *amazing*.
15:21:59 <rygorous>	@ranavin: Ooooh *zing* :)
15:22:03 <landrosradick>	yes
15:22:08 <thoth7>	(also Metal Age)
15:22:47 <ranavin>	...was something throwing grenades at you?
15:22:58 <koshirro>	greg lopiccolo and randy smith did that thief commentary stream
15:23:05 <clorf>	did that robot just throw a grenade at you?
15:23:28 <dsfinp>	There is a wonderful series on youtube - System Shock II - pacifist approach. The guy is trying to complete it without killing anybody :-)
15:23:28 <rygorous>	clorf: yeah they do that
15:23:47 <ranavin>	rygorous: I've never, ever seen that happen
15:23:51 <ranavin>	That's kind of cool
15:23:59 <nimrod80>	Is that thief stream archived somewhere?
15:24:00 <landrosradick>	mICROSOFT SAM!
15:24:06 <rygorous>	ranavin: I had that happen to me yesterday in the storage level.
15:24:17 <koshirro>	i just wished that stream would have been longer
15:24:27 <rygorous>	ranavin: In the room where Mach didn't turn on the force bridges :)
15:24:32 <ranavin>	Huh.
15:24:47 <koshirro>	i think you can find it on youtube nimrod
15:24:47 <vognsen>	twitch changed it like six months ago so you have to manually enable archiving i think
15:24:52 <ranavin>	I need to write a gamesys editor and look up the stats.
15:24:54 <ranavin>	Again.
15:25:13 <koshirro>	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AcmmDeJS1k
15:25:16 <ranavin>	(I wrote a gamesys viewer ages ago for SS1, but it was full of really awful hacks and I put it to sleep for good a few years ago)
15:25:40 <koshirro>	no wait this
15:25:41 <koshirro>	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHITDn2qnhg
15:25:53 <koshirro>	that last one was just randy after greg left
15:26:17 <nimrod80>	Thx!
15:26:18 <landrosradick>	would be a really interesting exercise of OculusRifting this game
15:26:24 <rygorous>	@ranavin: https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=1743.0 Cyborg Warrior - secondary attack: grenade.
15:26:35 <voodoo47>	they were using TFix, it felt soo weird.
15:27:04 <ranavin>	rygorous: well, yeah, if you want to do it the easy way :P
15:27:13 <drtwox>	@Landrosradick If the game was redone for VR, I would want a sensor on my finger (in  the real world) that controlled the reticle in-game!
15:27:25 <landrosradick>	Done!
15:28:22 <landrosradick>	Hydra/STEM has mouse emulation as does Leap Motion
15:28:26 <unn_atropos>	@Drtwox http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iPefnLfKlY
15:28:42 <unn_atropos>	^^
15:29:26 <drtwox>	@Unn_atropos LOL - Not quite what I had in mind :P
15:31:57 <rygorous>	You just turned the shield on, not off.
15:32:31 <timstellmach>	Well, soon enough he'll be out of energy anyway.
15:32:37 <rygorous>	True. :)
15:32:57 <glenchx>	whoa!
15:33:07 <glenchx>	annotating the map!
15:34:10 <jiggawattz121>	it's been decades since i played this, but I think I did most of the game with the phaser and the rapier, and just spent a lot of time skating back to charge stations
15:34:25 <koshirro>	have you played the s.t.a.l.k.e.r games? those kinda feel like system shock/deus ex except instead of implants you have artifats
15:34:28 <psymong>	what will you disintergrate heads with now though?
15:34:28 <lordulmo>	I GOT IT :D
15:34:46 <koshirro>	they are non linear too
15:35:03 <jasohavents>	Koshirro, nah man... stalker took more ideas off of Fallout than SS
15:35:19 <lordulmo>	Yeah, IMO closer to FO3 than SS
15:35:50 <koshirro>	stalker came a year before fallout 3
15:36:29 <jasohavents>	I'm saying original Fallouts
15:36:40 <jasohavents>	they even have easter eggs for it that were cut.
15:36:47 <koshirro>	i still don't see much similarity except the setting
15:36:58 <jasohavents>	Even though fallout was a TBS game
15:37:20 <rygorous>	"The door problem of game design" http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LizEngland/20140423/216092/quotThe_Door_Problemquot_of_Game_Design.php
15:38:59 <clorf>	who would write "DIE" in blood above the door to a grove?
15:39:05 <rygorous>	40 hours of playtime, a fatigue system and 3 levels of crouch.
15:39:07 <rygorous>	OR GTFO.
15:39:13 <kaiserpanda>	nice head
15:39:19 <kaiserpanda>	keep it
15:39:23 <clorf>	are they telling the inhabitants of the grove to die?
15:39:42 <timstellmach>	No, it's German. It says "the."
15:39:45 <lordulmo>	Minor detail
15:39:59 <koshirro>	or he was trying to write "diet soda"
15:40:20 <rygorous>	@koshirro: haha, top 10 things to write in blood, that sure is #3 or 4 on the list :)
15:40:39 <lordulmo>	"Gaspacho soup" *dies*
15:40:47 <jasohavents>	No... he meant to write DIE as in "We do illeagle dice games in here"
15:41:02 <koshirro>	why gor-tiger and not tigerilla?
15:41:18 <timstellmach>	It's like ligers and tigons. Depends which was the father.
15:41:28 <clorf>	I wonder if anyone has ever written a message in blood in a game that wasn't just absurd nonsense
15:41:31 <rygorous>	are there sleeping quarters somewhere?
15:41:36 <jasohavents>	Serve bots are like trash-cans and toilets. You just open the lid and then taek a *** inside.
15:41:37 <rygorous>	or is that what the stim packs are there for?
15:41:38 <jasohavents>	*take
15:42:27 <unn_atropos>	why can't you drink the soda in this game? you could in system shock 2...
15:42:48 <clorf>	switch behind that box!
15:43:02 <crowst3>	There sure were a lot of people trying to write Diet Soda on the wall...
15:43:06 <koshirro>	he only drinks dr pepper
15:43:14 <lordulmo>	Arrrgh that skype sound T.T
15:44:09 <lordulmo>	Those are big fuggen desks
15:44:14 <azriel1987>	does this game have a penalty to dying and resurrecting?
15:44:17 <timstellmach>	"Dieresis." Turns out that dieresis marks come back into fashion in the future.
15:44:19 <rygorous>	haha lol that image on the wall
15:44:38 <unn_atropos>	munch painting ahead^^
15:44:41 <clorf>	"The anime scream"
15:44:41 <koshirro>	not really azriel
15:45:08 <namelessvoice>	Projects like that can never be fully finished
15:45:08 <koshirro>	some of the traps are pretty deadly though so it would make it pain the *** if there was a penalty
15:45:23 <thoth7>	it's mostly done. they still can't do the animated textures, and the weapons aren't attempted
15:45:30 <unn_atropos>	the mods are shtup and 400
15:45:40 <thoth7>	(though there are separate mods for *most* of them)
15:45:49 <voodoo47>	paintings would be SHTUP
15:45:49 <namelessvoice>	A lot of the animated textures are done in SHEMP
15:46:03 <landrosradick>	Have you guys seen Routine?
15:46:26 <vognsen>	is there a lurid backstory for the badly centered text in that menu
15:46:30 <voodoo47>	Michael Biehn
15:46:45 <unn_atropos>	http://www.shtupmod.net/images/stimprogs.jpg
15:46:48 <rygorous>	vognsen: it works in the officially supported resolutions that shipped :)
15:47:02 <landrosradick>	http://youtu.be/iAcAd1fUiy8 Routine Game
15:47:05 <rygorous>	vognsen: so my guess is that the high-res patch doesn't update the text positioning :)
15:47:22 <vognsen>	rygorous: good answer. i remember spending a day and a half on the redeemer hud to make it work correctly with all aspect ratios
15:47:30 <namelessvoice>	I think they got all the paintings in SS2, no one ever identified all the Thief ones though
15:48:05 <vognsen>	rygorous: or rather a few hours spread across a a day and a half as qa found new and interesting ways to break it
15:48:11 <rygorous>	vognsen: in this case the highres patch is fan-made and directly on the binary, so yeah, you wouldn't bother with that. :)
15:48:21 <unn_atropos>	guy number 1 is still missing. it was assumed that it is machiavelli ore something
15:48:31 <kit_clayton>	The cyberpunk motif in this game seems so sincere, why do people have to use cyberpunk 'ironically' these days : (
15:48:43 <nothings2>	The high-res stuff mostly just enables code that was already in there. actually.
15:49:19 <peskysaw>	the code appears on one of the computer screens if you look at the security camera screen
15:50:01 <crowst3>	So what's the deal with that painting? Is it a reference or just something fun?
15:50:08 <iampanis>	711
15:50:36 <jasohavents>	048?
15:51:53 <drtwox>	Dev question: Looking Glass Studios and Origin Systems seemed (to an outsides from another country!) to be fairly close. Was there any tech sharing, collaboration etc between the two? Any good anecdotes to share?
15:52:46 <clorf>	does she send personalized messages to every cyborg every time she wants them to do something?
15:53:26 <rygorous>	Clorf: yeah, she always sends these rambling memos and they're just never any good.
15:53:47 <jasohavents>	Yeah Clorf, apparently she cares a lot about her minions to talk to them.
15:54:09 <namelessvoice>	She probably has a very high memos-per-minute rate
15:54:22 <ranavin>	Hollowpoint rounds: still not very effective aginst robots
15:54:24 <clorf>	yeah apparently she's a much better boss than Diego
15:54:41 <koshirro>	well in this game she still loves her experiments in the grove. unlike what they evolve to in system shock 2
15:54:51 <timstellmach>	No wonder the cyborgs have such high standards in memos, really.
15:55:32 <rygorous>	Memo connoisseurs.
15:55:46 <koshirro>	i bet the real reason why it almost got cancelled was "LBP"
15:56:09 <imcmeans>	Who's speaking?
15:56:50 <lordulmo>	DId stream stutter for anyone else?
15:56:57 <timstellmach>	Yes.
15:56:59 <rygorous>	lordulmo, yep.
15:57:01 <jasohavents>	yep Lordulmo
15:57:02 <koshirro>	yes, it also dropped the quality to medium
15:57:03 <unn_atropos>	yep
15:57:04 <lordulmo>	kk :3
15:58:04 <mypalmike>	Hello ppl
15:58:36 <doctorwoot>	this is the coolest stream ever
15:59:13 <landrosradick>	I hope more devs do this, the nostalgia!
15:59:44 <azriel1987>	a lightsabers dual hype - Dart diego vs Hacker on LSD
15:59:48 <koshirro>	your first battle with austin grossman
15:59:49 <doctorwoot>	wow ruin the story now i'll never buy this
16:00:02 <landrosradick>	Diego reminds me of VIRUS that movie with Donald Sutherland
16:00:04 <kosherx>	is there a way to activate the text logs into the cd version? I'm from another country and my english lacks fluency
16:00:07 <landrosradick>	who turns into a cyborg
16:00:08 <jasohavents>	heal?
16:00:19 <rygorous>	kosherx: yeah, you can turn on text in the audio settings
16:00:23 <voodoo47>	it's in the options
16:00:30 <kosherx>	ok, thanks
16:00:34 <rygorous>	kosherx: text version doesn't match what's spoken though (although there's a patch for that)
16:00:45 <timstellmach>	Not word-for-word, no.
16:00:48 <doctorwoot>	was this whole game a long winded dalek joke
16:00:55 <landrosradick>	haha doctor
16:01:01 <unn_atropos>	https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=802.0
16:01:08 <clorf>	what about the rail gun?
16:01:20 <ranavin>	The traditional approach here, of course, is to make a giant pile of explosives in the doorway, VERY CAREFULLY top it with a live land mine, and then fire a few shots down the hall and leg it
16:01:43 <vognsen>	grievous had four arms, that's creativity
16:01:56 <doctorwoot>	harness the power of two diegos
16:01:58 <azriel1987>	use the force Hacker
16:02:07 <drtwox>	Dev question: Older games relied on abstract level design and layouts for the world spaces they represented. New games tend to focus more on accurate representations, which in my opinion don't make for better gameplay experiences, in fact I would argue the opposite. Thoughts or comments?
16:02:09 <rygorous>	When you see a red switch labeled "Jettison Enable Master Control"...
16:02:11 <rygorous>	YOU FLIP IT.
16:02:25 <rygorous>	(game logic.)
16:02:28 <landrosradick>	haha
16:02:37 <landrosradick>	no safety precautions or anything!
16:02:57 <landrosradick>	Should also include a sign that says "No Children Allowed"
16:02:57 <imcmeans>	What's the green grid in the upper left on the UI?
16:03:02 <doctorwoot>	MY. BUTT.
16:03:18 <rygorous>	lmcmeans: You can use that to control crouch and lean.
16:03:18 <glenchx>	INVESTIGATE MY BUTT
16:03:21 <landrosradick>	The grid for the person shows his current postuire
16:03:28 <landrosradick>	and you can control it via that
16:03:32 <unn_atropos>	devote to shodan he is...
16:03:40 <acantophis3rd>	urks.. no stream watching and interacting for me today.. i hate my inet connection
16:03:44 <imcmeans>	how about the orange circles to the left of it?
16:03:53 <landrosradick>	eye up/down
16:03:56 <keeptrucking>	voice acting so developer
16:03:57 <keeptrucking>	Kappa
16:04:01 <rygorous>	lmcmeans: Look direction
16:04:02 <imcmeans>	I see, thanks!
16:04:10 <acantophis3rd>	its fantastic to see you playing it! i hook up on youtube when its up! cya
16:04:24 <mypalmike>	who here is from LG?
16:04:25 <rygorous>	lmcmeans: Basically anything in this game can be controlled using only mouse by interacting with the HUD
16:04:33 <mypalmike>	I know Mahk and Tim...
16:04:40 <rygorous>	(they talked about that in the previous stream)
16:06:02 <uhee>	I wish more games allowed you to "look at" stuff.
16:06:05 <landrosradick>	Should mod all the former LG employees
16:06:17 <austingrossman>	@mypalmike & Austin, Sean, Dorian
16:07:10 <lordulmo>	ICE...from Shadowrun, right?
16:07:21 <canageek>	lordulmo: Way before that, Neuromancer
16:07:33 <doctorwoot>	neuromancer was awesome
16:07:35 <ranavin>	You totally called it ICE
16:07:49 <clorf>	what do those stop sign things do?
16:07:55 <doctorwoot>	how do i apply at LG
16:08:00 <landrosradick>	lol
16:08:04 <doctorwoot>	bluebyte hasn't responded to my application
16:08:04 <drtwox>	lol
16:08:07 <lordulmo>	I'll have to check it out, thanks
16:08:09 <mypalmike>	lol
16:08:09 <ranavin>	And had softs like "FAKE ID ICE INFILTRATOR"
16:08:16 <rygorous>	doctorwoot, step 1: build a time machine.
16:08:26 <rygorous>	that actually helps with a lot of other things too
16:08:31 <rygorous>	a good first step for plans in general.
16:08:36 <vognsen>	rygorous: good portfolio piece for your application
16:08:40 <landrosradick>	especially step 952: Profit
16:08:57 <drtwox>	Dev question: The limbo state of the System Shock license was discussed... but what about the "Looking Glass Studios" name?
16:09:02 <rygorous>	vognsen: "i built the first working time machine" - "yeah everybody says that"
16:09:04 <mypalmike>	@Austingrossman cool. i was at lg but not during SS
16:10:30 <canageek>	System shock is one of those games I always hear about people a few years older then me talking about, but that I never played myself
16:10:36 <canageek>	It looks cool though
16:10:47 <austingrossman>	@mypalmike wait um who are you?
16:11:09 <vognsen>	does cyberspace have some passive "uprighting" when you get tilted off-axis?
16:11:13 <vognsen>	iirc descent had that
16:11:35 <canageek>	I remeber descent, the school computers had that on them for some reason, as I recall
16:11:37 <landrosradick>	Descent 1 didnt, 2 I thnk did
16:11:39 <rygorous>	vognsen: don't think so. it's confusing as hell.
16:11:42 <mypalmike>	@austingrossman mike white. i did some audio work on thief and ss2
16:11:45 <jiggawattz121>	why do the cyberstpace monsters look like a flying uterus?
16:11:47 <ranavin>	landrosradick: Descent 1 had it as an option. "Ship Auto-Leveling"
16:11:53 <rygorous>	landosradick: but descent 1 at least had a bank key.
16:11:59 <ranavin>	Which I always turned off because it was disorienting as hell.
16:12:05 <landrosradick>	ah yeah you are correct Ranavin
16:12:09 <landrosradick>	yeah I never enabled it either
16:12:10 <canageek>	That was the era of joystick games, before joysticks aquired 4500 buttons, and priced themselves out of a market
16:12:15 <ranavin>	If I want up to be 90° around from where the level designers put it THAT'S WHERE I WANT IT TO STAY.
16:12:25 <canageek>	At least that is what I assume happened, given that they were everywhere and today they are hard to find
16:12:40 <austingrossman>	@Mypalmike cool!
16:12:46 <landrosradick>	need a Rift Descent
16:12:50 <canageek>	ranavin: Stuff like that should be toggleble, in my humble opinion.
16:13:01 <crowst3>	There are cheap joysticks, they just aren't useful for anything.
16:13:05 <jiggawattz121>	The trick to Descent was actually to go with a non WASD layout, but instead put each strafe dimension on one finger... it means Left vs Right strafe are weird, but you could get used to it and you had way better control (I played a ton of descent pvp on Kali)
16:13:07 <landrosradick>	Comes with 5 gallon vomit bag ^_6
16:13:17 <crowst3>	All of the games that would require a basic joystick only have migrated onto consoles.
16:13:32 <mypalmike>	yes, mahk i was working on the new skeletal animation system
16:13:45 <drtwox>	@Mypalmike Your work on SS2 and Thief is astounding and a benchmark, even all these years later.
16:13:47 <jasohavents>	SAVE
16:13:49 <jasohavents>	Heal!
16:13:52 <jasohavents>	lol
16:13:59 <clorf>	you lose health every time you get kicked out of cyberspace
16:14:04 <rygorous>	2 bars health, no battery
16:14:09 <rygorous>	living dangerously!
16:14:10 <landrosradick>	@mypalmike you are awesome and I love the work you guys did. So many hours and inspirations drawn from. Legends all of you!
16:14:15 <mypalmike>	@ drtwox i honestly cant take much credit for the audio
16:14:16 <rygorous>	well, crawling dangerously more like.
16:14:22 <valet2>	Solus, is that you?
16:14:34 <doctorwoot>	too bad games moved away from the cultural setting that allowed games like SS
16:14:36 <drtwox>	@Jasohavents  He still has two chevrons! Don't want to appear like a coward!
16:15:00 <arghks>	tada, healed!
16:15:01 <ranavin>	canageek: in all Descent games it is in fact toggleable
16:15:12 <canageek>	Nice
16:15:21 <jiggawattz121>	One thing I really miss from the pre 3d accelerator days is each game could be *totally* different in how the engine worked and what style it forced on the game.. now everything is so uniform.
16:15:26 <landrosradick>	Descent 2 had it autoenabled didnt it? I think thats why I remember it not being in #1
16:16:06 <canageek>	jiggawattz121: What do you mean? Can you explain it to a young'un like me?
16:16:09 <koshirro>	i think cyberpunk scifi setting kinda died after the last matrix movie
16:16:25 <landrosradick>	color
16:16:41 <canageek>	(Let's just say, I recall watching my Dad play Wolfenstine and Doom on our 386 back before I started school)
16:16:44 <landrosradick>	Games were unique in their art to find the best optimization for their engines at the time
16:16:47 <rygorous>	Also, the world being pretty cyberpunk in general right now. :)
16:17:15 <koshirro>	yeah, remember those nokia banana phones in the matrix?
16:17:18 <jiggawattz121>	Canageek: so like forward and back on R/F with your index finger, left and right on E/D, up and down on W/S, and tilt left and tilt right on Q/A... that lets you strafe and spin in all directions at the same time with 4 fingers, but it's weird to get used to
16:17:22 <rygorous>	"It's set in this mildly dystopian future where everything is networked and corrupt corporations run everything!"
16:17:26 <canageek>	koshirro: I've noticed a bit of a come back since the WIkileaks and Snowden papers actually. More of cypherpunk, and the asthetic is very diffrent, but a lot of the ideas and concepts are there, just modernized.
16:17:56 <jiggawattz121>	Canageek: my brother thought of it before I did, but it made a HUGE difference in deathmatch, you could fly circles around people once you got used to it
16:18:26 <canageek>	jiggawattz121: Ah, I recall that a bit. I can see the advantage of that, though I can also see the advantage of muscle memory between games.
16:19:19 <drtwox>	@Jiggawattz121 It blows peoples minds when they see I use ESCF, with my middle finger on E (forward) and my thumb on C (back).
16:19:23 <jiggawattz121>	Canageek: yeah, it was definitely weird to get used too
16:19:28 <valet2>	Mike Ryan is here, did I miss something?
16:19:38 <mypalmike>	hi mike ryan
16:19:54 <valet2>	Are you in steam chat also?
16:20:01 <valet2>	not steam - skype
16:20:12 <mypalmike>	i am not
16:20:20 <jiggawattz121>	Drtwox: that's interesting... do you maybe play piano or something? trying it out it feels very.... fingertippy?
16:20:29 <canageek>	jiggawattz121: I like that they weren't scared to have a UI back then. I'd say this one takes it a bit too far, but I don't like this trend towards no information on screen.
16:20:50 <valet2>	ok then... please tell us how you did the citadel level in SS2. many people don't know the story.
16:21:27 <arghks>	that's why the game felt so spongy :)
16:21:32 <canageek>	I hear that esdf is much superior to wasd, but I've not tried to move over since I use a split keyboard (Typing vs gaming tradeoff. I might get a flat one now that I'm playing more games)
16:22:02 <koshirro>	HOLY ***
16:22:04 <keeptrucking>	ol
16:22:04 <jiggawattz121>	Canageek: I think some games do it well, like Deadspace... but you can go way too far. Back in the day the Jurassic Park 3d game tried to be hyper realistic with the UI, and it just ended up lame... you'd walk past a barell and it'd make your hand drop your pistol all the time, a great example of a game design killed by ideology over playtesting fun
16:22:07 <keeptrucking>	lol
16:22:12 <koshirro>	i never realized that
16:22:17 <keeptrucking>	thats awesome
16:22:24 <ninjaseg>	Don't forget to Salt the Fries.
16:22:32 <datrebb>	grovey Kappa
16:22:39 <rygorous>	Of course they're simulated objects, this is LG after all. :)
16:22:56 <landrosradick>	just like the wrong way space station rotation ^_^
16:23:11 <drtwox>	@Jiggawattz121 Not a pianist! It's just a method I developed before the current WASD setup became the default. To me it's natural; using my middle finger for both forward and back feels weird and cumbersome. Funny story: It was only about a month ago I realised the rest of the world did it that way!
16:23:12 <jiggawattz121>	VR is going to be round 2 of figuring out all these UI / UX fundamentals
16:23:26 <thoth7>	I've been controlling FPS games with the numberpad since Marathon. Way more comfortable for me to have the keys on a proper grid rather than offset
16:23:34 <canageek>	jiggawattz121: I can hear that, but I liked how you could overlay a map onto Doom and wish more games had that; Fallout 3 would have benifited a lot from that.
16:23:59 <jiggawattz121>	totally
16:24:04 <jiggawattz121>	fun trumps everything else
16:24:17 <jiggawattz121>	unless you're some designer with a big ego :P
16:24:34 <landrosradick>	speaking of VR, going to shill my brothers project: http://www.geekwire.com/2014/oculus-unleashed-virtual-reality-hackers-conjure-convincing-holodeck/
16:24:41 <rygorous>	If you make the game in German first, you just write the text so the line breaking in German works fine, but then French ends up being the problem.
16:24:44 <rygorous>	Speaking from experience here. :)
16:25:04 <jiggawattz121>	Localization is horrific all around :(
16:25:06 <datrebb>	lol
16:25:13 <ninjaseg>	I put crouch on LMB and jump on RMB. Fire is spacebar. Did that for sniping, so firing didn't throw off my crappy aim.
16:25:16 <canageek>	jiggawattz121: I can even see the justification for it in an FPS: The military has been talking about HUDs for years, fighter pilots have them, and Google Glass is a thing. I'd love to have a map overlay in meatspace.
16:25:18 <kolyakorruptis>	I condone the idea of all games being made in German first.
16:25:51 <canageek>	ninjaseg: I have a mouse enough buttons for all of those...
16:26:13 <rygorous>	Haha
16:26:17 <jiggawattz121>	Canageek: totally, and it doesn't have to be perfectly fluid Augmented Reality or something... though with the military, simpler is often better. The UK tried some smart mapping PDA thing for their infantry called BOWMAN, everyone hated it so much they started calling it Better of with a Map and a Nokia
16:26:21 <datrebb>	wow. german publisher saying that voice acting is terrible. thats.. just slapstick :P i keep buying games in english because german localization usually is atrocious..
16:26:30 <canageek>	Oh man, Trackballs were still around back when this game was made, weren't they?
16:26:44 <canageek>	Sadly, I don't think voice acting is universilly better then that today...
16:26:53 <kolyakorruptis>	System Shock 2 has excellent German localisation though.
16:27:48 <unn_atropos>	shodan=marion von stengel=tomb raider=wow
16:28:17 <rygorous>	There's only like 10 German voice actors that do Games.
16:28:23 <rygorous>	That's not actually true, but it feels that way.
16:28:23 <keeptrucking>	poor germans
16:28:28 <landrosradick>	and movies
16:28:42 <datrebb>	just buy it all in english, problem solved ;)
16:28:51 <drtwox>	@Nothings2 Dev question (repeat): Older games relied on abstract level design and layouts for the world spaces they represented. New games tend to focus more on accurate representations, which in my opinion don't make for better gameplay experiences, in fact I would argue the opposite. Thoughts or comments?
16:28:52 <landrosradick>	some of them do it really well though :D
16:29:05 <zollington>	so its just like people that do English VA for anime and Japanese games
16:29:11 <rygorous>	Yeah, I haven't bought a game in German in 10 years now I think :)
16:29:16 <canageek>	I love how diverse this game looks. You go into various areas, even close together, and the look totally changes.
16:29:20 <zollington>	feels like theres only 10 of them around
16:29:38 <landrosradick>	yeah Canageek, huge range in color palette
16:29:41 <nothings2>	@Drtwox It's such a loaded question!
16:29:43 <unn_atropos>	in the crew area there is a button
16:29:59 <unn_atropos>	near the munch building somewhere
16:30:06 <unn_atropos>	*painting
16:30:16 <jiggawattz121>	Drtwox: there was an interesting late 90's game named ONI that hired real urban/skyscraper architects to do the baseline level geometry... it didn't work well.
16:30:19 <drtwox>	@Nothings2 Which can create good discussion! :P
16:30:36 <doctorwoot>	i liked oni but man that game was weird
16:30:42 <rygorous>	I'm gonna call the anime-fied Munch painting "the nom painting".
16:30:43 <landrosradick>	Oni's problem was scale
16:30:47 <landrosradick>	everything was huge
16:31:07 <jiggawattz121>	Reality is tedious and often boring, it's why you're playing a game in the first place :P
16:31:09 <valet2>	Isn't it the part where you have to go to deck 3 and put some relays?
16:31:13 <mypalmike>	was oni the one with david bowie?
16:31:15 <koshirro>	the airport level was pretty great
16:31:20 <rygorous>	It's really tricky to actually build things to scale for games.
16:31:25 <austingrossman>	I quite liked Oni! I thought the mix of fighting vs ranged combat made for a pretty good gameplay experience.
16:31:31 <landrosradick>	no, that was Omikron
16:31:31 <clorf>	That was Omrikon Mypalmike
16:31:40 <koshirro>	oni was the 3d shooting/fighting game by bungie
16:31:43 <rygorous>	If you do that and render it on a regular screen with typical (huge) FPS FOVs, it feels claustrophobic
16:31:45 <doctorwoot>	yeah oni was fun but god help you if you had to backtrack
16:31:49 <canageek>	I worked in a place like that once, Atomic Energy of Canada's fluid dynamics lab. 7 km through forest, then green and white WWII era-Canadian military buildings, then you went through security (Gaurds with automatic weapons), then my building: Two halves, half was a machine shop, half was fluid dynamics, so already a very video game transition. But then in mine, downstairs was offices, upstairs
16:31:51 <zollington>	i remember reading about the DOOM prototype and they had the same problem when they were developing that game in the beginning. They originally had more of a story and more realistic levels, and eventually realized they'd be better off having more fun level designs
16:31:53 <mypalmike>	aha yeah @clorf that's what i was thinking of
16:31:56 <canageek>	was a cube farm...but you went through one door and entered this giant industrial research area with exposed power buses, metal and tubing everywhere, and wires and cruft on everything.
16:32:00 <landrosradick>	Was it Bungie? I thought it was Monolith
16:32:03 <canageek>	It was very much like a video game level...
16:32:13 <doctorwoot>	oni was made by bungie
16:32:15 <zollington>	Bungie made ONI, yeah
16:32:16 <azriel1987>	you need to get into the grove with the virus...to open the door - go to the destroyed sector and look for a switch
16:32:20 <landrosradick>	ah yeah thats right
16:32:23 <canageek>	zollington: Read "The Doom Bible", it describes the origional plan
16:32:41 <landrosradick>	because the acronyms or whatever also got used in HALO
16:32:44 <koshirro>	ït was rushed out after microsoft bought bungie
16:33:03 <landrosradick>	Office of Naval Intelligence
16:33:13 <mypalmike>	get into the grove
16:33:21 <ninjaseg>	https://www.flickr.com/photos/r-bernard/9653622479/
16:33:25 <zollington>	Canageek : i read about it in this article, also had info on Deus Ex 3 http://joemartinwords.com/2014/09/24/videobrains-the-deleted-scenes-of-disney-doom-and-deus-ex/
16:33:25 <clorf>	DIe
16:33:30 <unn_atropos>	down at the floor?
16:33:37 <azriel1987>	near the screen
16:33:40 <jiggawattz121>	I think scanned environments haven't really worked outside of racetrack games for similar reasons
16:33:41 <ranavin>	landrosradick: yeah, Bungie made Marathon, Oni, and Halo, and the games have a bunch of references to each other, especially Halo->Marathon.
16:33:44 <azriel1987>	use lantern
16:33:53 <landrosradick>	I love tie-ins
16:33:53 <ranavin>	And Pathways into Darkness, which owns owns owns and you should play it if you liked System Shock
16:33:55 <glenchx>	the ol switch on the floor trick
16:34:01 <koshirro>	myth 1 and 2 too
16:34:12 <landrosradick>	Pathways into Darkness, Ill have to look into it! Thanks @Ranavin
16:34:13 <ranavin>	Although you will need to set up a Mac OS7, 8, or 9 install in SheepShaver to actually play it
16:34:25 <canageek>	zollington: You can have some crazy level design, I wish I could show you pics of Chalk RIver labs, but you aren't allowed. Heck, they let you take giant knives on site through the x-ray machine, but not cameras. SOmething about multiple nuclear reactors on site.
16:34:26 <landrosradick>	hah
16:34:51 <ranavin>	(Marathon is also good but less system-shock-y. But does have the advantage of running natively on modern OSes and having an official freeware release, rather than being something you need to scavenge from Mac Abandonware sites)
16:35:16 <zollington>	Canageek : I'm not sure what you're referring to
16:35:24 <landrosradick>	I played Marathon on my 360, but never got to finish it before it RRODd
16:35:48 <landrosradick>	i liked it because it was more narrative driven through the terminals, like SS
16:35:51 <clorf>	if anything System Shock's level design is much less abstract than the other games that came out around the same time
16:35:56 <landrosradick>	versus just being a Doom clone of somesort
16:35:59 <canageek>	zollington: Place I worked that felt like a video game. Cube farms right by industrial labs, offices next to nuclear reactors, etc.
16:36:04 <ranavin>	landrosradick: yeah, likewise.
16:36:19 <ranavin>	Pathways is slower-paced, and has seances with dead nazis rather than audio logs or terminals.
16:36:25 <zollington>	Canageek : ah, ok
16:36:34 <landrosradick>	haha
16:36:38 <jiggawattz121>	FWIW, I first realized "realism doesn't feel real" when trying to sketch trees as a kid. It's way easier to make a good drawing if you idealize the tree, vs actually try to be hyperealistic. Realistic trees look weird.
16:36:40 <ranavin>	Higher emphasis on puzzle-solving, less on combat - although there's a TURBO code that makes the whole thing run at 2x speed and turns it into a twitchfest
16:37:38 <landrosradick>	Gameplay Designers = modern day Mystics
16:39:11 <arghks>	I think Shodan had her cyborgs paint "die" with blood everywhere to demoralize survivors.
16:39:14 <jiggawattz121>	It's almost an uncanny valley thing... Toy Story wouldn't work emotionally if the rendering was less idealized
16:39:16 <koshirro>	back to maintenance!
16:39:18 <datrebb>	i like that dr sbaitso is in this Kappa
16:39:26 <rygorous>	Wait, it didn't work the first time?
16:39:30 <rygorous>	This has never happened before! :)
16:39:32 <landrosradick>	haha Datrebb
16:39:40 <unn_atropos>	that voice: is that a computer voice or a human voice altered to sound mechanical?
16:39:44 <landrosradick>	so many days spent futsing around with DrSbaitso and Parrot
16:39:50 <landrosradick>	SBParrot
16:40:06 <doctorwoot>	do they?
16:40:12 <azriel1987>	yeah invisamutent level!!
16:40:27 <doctorwoot>	oh god the invisible pancakes
16:40:32 <datrebb>	i got all my therapy from him, it worked out well. BCWarrior
16:40:38 <landrosradick>	lol
16:41:04 <clorf>	stuff like splitting up every level into the four quadrants so you can have a way to figure out where stuff is from listening to people talk about it in the audio logs was genius
16:41:07 <canageek>	It is a portable version of the game right? Couldn't you just zip the whole thing up and send that? Or even set it up in a sharing service (Dropbox, github, spideroak) and keep everyone synced that way? Or does it need lots of per-computer tweaking?
16:41:17 <clorf>	and that's the exact opposite of abstract level design
16:41:36 <ranavin>	Looks like we're on our way to explore the mazes in level 3. Gaze upon the maintenance deck and despair: http://funkyhorror.ancilla.ca/toxicfrog/ss1/maps/map.html#3,*
16:41:41 <landrosradick>	thats one thing thats great about this is the massive levels
16:42:01 <rygorous>	canageek: Switching who's streaming etc. would disrupt the flow pretty badly
16:42:07 <clorf>	use the laser rapier more!
16:42:10 <landrosradick>	or at least they feel massive, because of the claustrophobia
16:42:11 <clorf>	it's overpowered as hell
16:42:24 <ranavin>	clorf: yeah, that's one of the things I like about SS1 and about LGS games in general -- the levels aren't super detailed, but they do feel like they at least sketch out real places rather than being abstract game challenges.
16:42:39 <canageek>	rygorous: Ah, I'm used to streams with ad breaks (aka bathroom breaks) and such anyway.
16:42:43 <drtwox>	Dev question repeat (of the silly kind): The fractured ownership of the System Shock license was discussed previously but what about the "Looking Glass Studios" name? Who owns that? Eidos, EA or someone else? Could Eidos's new digital distribution service be called "Looking Glass"?
16:42:51 <ranavin>	landrosradick: they are at the same really big and not nearly as big as they feel.
16:43:04 <ranavin>	landrosradick: the devs packed a huge amount of space into a relatively small area, if that makes any sense.
16:43:11 <rygorous>	canageek: Well, there were a bunch of problems last time with audio, and that setup is all per-machine
16:43:21 <landrosradick>	it does, partly because of the themes of each section is unique and different
16:43:22 <canageek>	rygorous: That makes sense
16:43:27 <rygorous>	canageek: You don't want to multiply that pain 4-5x :)
16:43:36 <landrosradick>	so it feels like you're visiting a wholly different area when its only 1/8 of the actual level
16:43:49 <doctorwoot>	SS1 and 2 were really fun to roam around thanks to the details in the environment
16:43:49 <landrosradick>	its fantastic use of space
16:43:53 <ranavin>	landrosradick: if you look at the map for, say, deck 1, there's lots of cunning tricks with different wall heights and stuff to pack things really tightly.
16:44:20 <ranavin>	The map for deck 8 looks pretty small but it's so *vertical* that it feels huge, which doesn't really come through in the top-down map.
16:44:42 <landrosradick>	yeah, I mentioned earlier that the verticality of System Shock is what really blows me away to this day still
16:44:57 <ranavin>	And then you have maps like Deck 7 that are just legitimately large.
16:45:01 <nothings2>	@Drtwox Eidos got all of the IP, which I assume includes that, yeah.
16:45:12 <canageek>	I am so glad modern games have better font support. Say what you will about games looking pretty being over rated, the fact we have decent fonts now is very, very nice. (Yes, I notice odd things in games.)
16:45:26 <landrosradick>	the fact they did it back then was awesome since even games like Rise of the Triad, Doom and others didnt touch on it. Except Duke3D but that is minimal in comparison
16:45:41 <ranavin>	The mazes are fully lit, you can probably turn off infravision now.
16:45:42 <doctorwoot>	also the way in which objectives had you roam around the decks made the station feel much more complete than things like the mars base in doom
16:45:52 <doctorwoot>	even doom 3 didn't have the same sense of scale
16:45:54 <landrosradick>	yeah Doctor
16:45:55 <rygorous>	or just go to regular lantern anyway
16:46:19 <ranavin>	doctorwoot: yeah, level design was one of LGS's greatest strengths and something that I'm really sad very few developers emulate.
16:46:22 <landrosradick>	that new independent Routine game seems like it might be taking similar queues
16:46:26 <doctorwoot>	i'd even say open world games don't feel as big because of the way you traverse the maps
16:46:44 <doctorwoot>	yeah exactly Ranavin
16:46:49 <drtwox>	I often felt System Shock was the PC gamers equivalent of Metroid with the backtracking and items being your 'stats'.
16:47:01 <landrosradick>	^^^ yes @Drtwox
16:47:11 <jiggawattz121>	Doctorwoot: yeah, sandbox games is a better name I think
16:47:25 <doctorwoot>	that's a good name for them
16:47:27 <rygorous>	It's definitely a Metroidvania.
16:47:29 <kosherx>	I must agree with the metroid comparison
16:47:45 <landrosradick>	Metroidvania, even Metroid Revolution and Prime didnt do it as well
16:47:55 <landrosradick>	those were just so platformy
16:48:25 <nothings2>	Yeah, there's a good recent youtube review of SS1 that talks about the Metroidvania aspect.
16:48:42 <ranavin>	landrosradick: Metroids havve always been platformy, though? Go replay Super Metroid.
16:49:02 <ranavin>	(and I really liked Metroid Prime)
16:49:05 <clorf>	god the invisible mutants are the worst
16:49:16 <clorf>	they just Never. Stop. Spawning
16:49:24 <ranavin>	clorf: at least they aren't invisible spiders
16:49:28 <ranavin>	Worst enemies in SS2 bar none
16:49:43 <clorf>	at least the spiders don't instantly respawn as soon as you kill them
16:49:48 <koshirro>	the spider trap is ss2
16:49:49 <koshirro>	gawd
16:49:53 <landrosradick>	Question for the Devs: Through the rose colored shades of nostalgia, what do you miss from the old days of development at LGS?
16:49:54 <kosherx>	that's ok, more time for LG stories and designer comments Kappa
16:50:02 <unn_atropos>	@nothing do you mean this review? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOb7kznC5as
16:50:15 <azriel1987>	Worst enemies in SS2 are the worms and monkeys
16:50:20 <clorf>	that central corridor with the invisible mutants is the worst piece of game design in Shock
16:50:30 <doctorwoot>	question for the devs: how much time went into the soldier's writing in SS2?
16:50:41 <landrosradick>	@Ranavin yeah, I suppose thats true but it felt moreso to me in Prime
16:50:50 <valet2>	Oh, guys, while you're all here (the DEVS), here's my question that lasts from childhood: SS2, the Many, the biomass. Where did it come from? I mean the amount! How did it grow? From nothing?
16:51:02 <landrosradick>	maybe because of the difficulty of the FPS Platforming
16:51:44 <jiggawattz121>	Valet2: you can grow plants in nothing but air and water with a few nutriants. Think of hydroponics. Most of the material in plants is carbon that they breathe in, as CO2. It's amazing!
16:51:48 <ranavin>	landrosradick: yeah, Prime did have some nice features in that respect (like the view automatically tilting down when you jump) but it's always going to be harder in first person.
16:52:01 <nothings2>	@Unn_atropos yep, that's the one.
16:52:25 <clorf>	they never really asked you to do any particularly hard platforming in Prime though
16:52:46 <rygorous>	landosradick: I thought the Primes did FPS platforming well though - they didn't over do it, and when you screwed it up it always felt like it was your fault.
16:53:04 <valet2>	Yeah, sure, but the biomass around the Rickenbacker is in vacuum, in open space. There's no material it could use.
16:53:43 <landrosradick>	I must be terrible because I remember just having a hard time with it. I should go back and replay them
16:53:57 <jiggawattz121>	Valet2: true, and plants grow very slowly for a reason
16:54:38 <valet2>	Plant uses mainly CO2, but there's no similar things in space.
16:55:33 <drtwox>	You guys all knew each other!??! CALL THE GAMERGATE PEOPLE, STAT! ;)
16:55:39 <ranavin>	valet2: presumably most of that is absorbed biomass of the crew of the Rick and the Von Braun, the food supplies, the plants, monkeys, etc
16:56:08 <ranavin>	No. No it's not. Retinal scanner is in southeast corner.
16:56:11 <ranavin>	Near the CPU nodes.
16:56:13 <bureaucratique>	Was there any Imposter Syndrome at LGS because of the high-caliber of people?
16:56:15 <koshirro>	retinal scanner is next to where the cpu nodes where
16:56:33 <valet2>	I thought that too, but if you collect all people from both ships and all organics i doubt you can create even 15x50 meters of biomass
16:56:36 <unn_atropos>	scanner is in the room left corridor from reviving station, I think
16:56:38 <azriel1987>	Plants using oxygen like we do.. CO2 used to create organic compounds
16:56:57 <nathandarcy>	Scanner is not in that room
16:57:03 <nathandarcy>	It's in the computer node room
16:57:54 <rygorous>	Opposite side of the corridor
16:58:17 <bureaucratique>	Maybe not knowing you can't is a valuable thing.
16:58:19 <unn_atropos>	from the conversion chamber go left, first door
16:58:19 <nathandarcy>	It is on the other side of that door
16:58:20 <ranavin>	Yes. It is on the opposite side of that door and you do need to get security down.
16:58:34 <ranavin>	Yes this is the room!
16:58:43 <nathandarcy>	You just need to bring security down
16:58:43 <koshirro>	it's on the other side of that door
16:58:56 <ranavin>	(easymode: search the deck 3 map for RETINAL)
16:59:31 <valet2>	Guys, do you remember a picture of biomass around the Rickenbacker? It looks like there're 50 millions tons of the mass! It came from just nothing.
16:59:47 <landrosradick>	foodstuff storage lockers
17:00:23 <rygorous>	It was all lint collected from keyboards
17:00:26 <canageek>	Looking at this it reminds me of Deus Ex a lot, am I the only one?
17:00:28 <rygorous>	But we don't talk about that.
17:00:31 <ranavin>	valet2: I remember no such picture.
17:00:40 <koshirro>	remember to overkill the last camera
17:00:55 <landrosradick>	haha
17:00:56 <clorf>	the many took advantage of the same biological process used by Resident Evil bosses when they explode into a giant monster 50 times their size
17:00:56 <azriel1987>	it was not from nothing - it used organic matter....organic matter doesnt necessary have to be human flash
17:01:03 <ranavin>	canageek: Deus Ex was strongly inspired by SS1 and shared a bunch of team members including the producer.
17:01:07 <unn_atropos>	@Valet2 there is apicture on rickenbacker bridge
17:01:15 <ranavin>	canageek: it's not at all surprising that DX is strongly reminiscent of SS1.
17:01:19 <canageek>	ranavin: Ah! That would explain it.
17:01:20 <voodoo47>	they probably have the ability to turn energy into the biomass
17:01:51 <voodoo47>	it's a screen, actually
17:02:07 <ranavin>	canageek: you may have noticed that the code to the comms hut at UNATCO is 0451 :P
17:02:11 <landrosradick>	its so dark, where is the Duct tape mod for the flashlight/gun?!
17:02:26 <canageek>	voodoo47: That much mass would have insane energy costs. Like, more then every nuke ever created, and I suspect more then all energy ever used by the human race.
17:02:29 <rygorous>	Landosradick: You do have a head-mounted lamp. :)
17:02:46 <canageek>	ranavin: I haven't played it for more then a minute or two, but I know some people who did.
17:03:00 <ranavin>	canageek: it's pretty good! I recommend it.
17:03:16 <doctorwoot>	best story ever told was when the borg blew themselves up for no reason
17:03:18 <canageek>	ranavin: I love game history and such, but I'm mostly a tabletop gamer. I built my first gaming computer last winter.
17:03:28 <jiggawattz121>	I have friends that love Dr. Who and go on foaming at the mouth rants about Gravity. I don't get it.
17:03:38 <ranavin>	canageek: aah, for my part I learned PC gaming on my daddy's knee, quite literally
17:03:56 <canageek>	The only PC games i can recall heavily from back then were Dark Forces, X-Wing, Tie Fighter, and Castle of the Winds: A Question of Vengence
17:04:00 <rygorous>	It's in your game!
17:04:01 <landrosradick>	I learned it by fighting PC time with my brothers
17:04:02 <ranavin>	jiggawattz121: makes perfect sense -- Doctor Who isn't *meant* to be realistic; it makes no claims to be scientifically accurate. Gravity does.
17:04:05 <doctorwoot>	here's the antidote for obesity
17:04:08 <rygorous>	"Detox: universal antidote"!
17:04:10 <unn_atropos>	I still think that he needs to go into the western labyrinth^^
17:04:15 <landrosradick>	and staying home from ChickenPox I learned how to load things via MSDOS
17:04:18 <canageek>	ranavin: Ah, me too. Mom was not happy years later when she discovered I watched Dad play Doom and Elite while she was at work. (Stay at home Dad).
17:04:21 <rygorous>	It is the antidote to *everything*.
17:04:33 <jiggawattz121>	Ranavin: I don't think Gravity intended to be realistic, just compelling, but maybe I haven't seen the makers statements about it
17:04:39 <koshirro>	does that kill all the useful bacteria too?
17:04:46 <datrebb>	dat space ak47 !
17:04:47 <canageek>	He also make a keyboard cut out for me so I could play a racing game (Called The Duel as I recall) without hitting the wrong buttons and messing his computer up.
17:04:52 <jiggawattz121>	Ranavin: in any case, I'd rather a good movie exist than be satisfied that it was killed in development as NOT REALISTIC
17:05:04 <azriel1987>	use the rapier
17:05:25 <ranavin>	canageek: for me it was text mode UNIX games, starting with a bunch of educational games my dad wrote for me -- later we had a DOS emulator and that brought in Reader Rabbit, Math Blaster, the Apogee shareware games, and Wing Commander.
17:05:30 <canageek>	jiggawattz121: I read an interview with a NASA flight controller, parts of it were VERY well done (Perfect 2-body physics), other parts not so much (Wrong orbits, that jetpack hasn't been used in years)
17:05:35 <clorf>	and yes just use the laser rapier it works on practically everything
17:05:35 <nathandarcy>	The rapier is still the best weapon against inviso-mutants
17:05:45 <canageek>	ranavin: The first one I recall was Elite, though he tells me I played Adventure
17:06:00 <ranavin>	jiggawattz121: I haven't seen the movie or the creators' statements about it, but I know that at least a lot of people *think* it was meant to be realistic
17:06:06 <rygorous>	I'm actually feeling better now.
17:06:13 <jiggawattz121>	Canageek: yeah, my point is more, even a simple historical drama breaks realism in countless ways, no one cares... but because geeks like to inflict their superior knowledge on people, films like Gravity become a prop for someone to go all "Well Actually..."
17:06:15 <rygorous>	Since I started playing SS this week and I die all the time.
17:06:24 <doctorwoot>	i rarely ever died thanks to combat difficulty = 0
17:06:25 <ranavin>	canageek: I never played Elite. I did play Adventure but never got very far.
17:06:27 <canageek>	But in grade 5 he taught my freinds and I D&D and well, I like that more then computer games. I still play with him once a month (Skyping in from 4500 km away)
17:06:27 <rygorous>	So I thought maybe I'm just hopeless.
17:06:38 <ranavin>	I think Mahk has died more times on this deck than I did in my entire first playthrough of SS1.
17:06:42 <koshirro>	OVERKILL THE CAMERA
17:06:45 <canageek>	ranavin: I think that was its name. Side scroller kind of like Zelda II. As I said, I don't really remeber it.
17:06:56 <landrosradick>	I really wanted to D& Dwith my brothers and his friends, I had zero friends interested in doing it growing up
17:07:03 <nathandarcy>	I think that the only remaining camera is inside the maintenance office
17:07:10 <ranavin>	canageek: Elite was the origina open world spaceflight trading/combat game and was 3d wireframe, so that's not what you're remembering.
17:07:11 <landrosradick>	so I had to just sit in and listen to their shenanigans
17:07:14 <nathandarcy>	So you should be able to use the retinal scanner now
17:08:09 <canageek>	ranavin: No, that one I remeber clearly, and I've gone back and read the novella that came with it and such. I watched him play that a lot. There was a side scroller I played that I don't recall. It had spiders that dropped down from trees that you stabbed.
17:08:42 <clorf>	do any of the guns in this game come loaded with ammo?
17:08:48 <clorf>	I think they might just ALL come unloaded
17:08:56 <nathandarcy>	No, a few of them have ammo
17:09:00 <uhee>	elite:frontier perhaps?
17:09:09 <nathandarcy>	The Magnum in this level has 3 bullets in it
17:09:15 <neilhoward17>	I hear that the projectile weapons in ultima underworld influenced the gameplay of Shock,
17:09:15 <drtwox>	@Jiggawattz121 To your earlier point: I think 'reality' in all mediums is subject to an uncanny valley effect. If the game/movie/whatever is obviously not set in a reality consistent with our own, you can forgive it for a lot more than if the movie pretends to represent reality.
17:09:17 <ranavin>	canageek: that sounds familiar but I have no idea what it was.
17:09:32 <koshirro>	and here comes the genius part
17:09:35 <ranavin>	clorf: no, a bunch of guns come with ammo already in them.
17:09:38 <jiggawattz121>	Drtwox: that's true, Dr. Who is a more "magical" concept from the start
17:09:40 <valet2>	did he destroy that camera in beta grove, right near the entrance?
17:09:51 <nathandarcy>	Careful with the droid :)
17:10:08 <canageek>	ranavin: It is still in my Dad's basement somewhere, we collect C64 stuff from time to time when it is free.
17:10:10 <dicek_minamimoto>	I think you guys are awesome for doing this. >.>
17:10:30 <dicek_minamimoto>	xD
17:10:41 <canageek>	So we have about 8 of them now, from cheap garage sales to grabbing trash to freinds donating it (Mom doesn't know how much we have, since she hates the basement)
17:10:56 <dicek_minamimoto>	"Easy way to find that severed head is that it is the only severed head that is useful"
17:10:58 <dicek_minamimoto>	xD
17:11:10 <datrebb>	you could be inventing a new speedrun category here. "1hp only"
17:11:18 <jiggawattz121>	NALIFRUIT ROOM
17:11:24 <ranavin>	canageek: I never had any of the "classic" consoles or home PCs; my first computer (well, my dad's) was a SWTCPC running AT&T UNIX with two serial terminals attached to it.
17:11:34 <ranavin>	Missed the whole C64/NES/SNES eras entirely.
17:11:48 <nathandarcy>	I've asked this before, but I'll ask again: anyone knows why there is a 'docile' Exec-bot up in Engineering? It's the only non-aggressive foe in the entire game.
17:11:56 <landrosradick>	The first computer I can actually remember, was a Kaypro
17:12:16 <rygorous>	Nathandarcy: There's a couple non-moving cyborgs down in level 1 as well.
17:12:19 <landrosradick>	playing Robotron on it
17:12:32 <doctorwoot>	hundreds of us are living TO THIS DAY
17:12:32 <drtwox>	Dev and discussion (loaded :) question: Long, deep and complex games are great, but as I get older and real life increasingly demands more attention I find shorter 'burst', 'wide not long' games like Spelunky, The Binding of Isaac, Battlefield and the previously mentioned Necrodancer are where I spend most of my precious but limited gaming time. If System Shock came out now, it's unlikely I would find the time to play it through to the end, or if I did it would take many, many weekends. There seems to be a trend for shorter games now, but I suspect that has more to do with practical reasons like development costs and team sizes than a specific design ethos that results in shorter games. Thoughts or comments?
17:12:33 <nathandarcy>	But if they see you, they shoot at you
17:12:55 <nathandarcy>	The Exce-bot I'm talking about moves around and never attacks you
17:13:05 <koshirro>	coffee!
17:13:14 <canageek>	ranavin: He had a C64, then a 386/Win3.1. At some point we got a NES, and about a week later traded it in and got a SNES. In 2000 I got a N64 with my brother, so I missed all the Sony and XBox stuff as we stayed with Nintendo until my brother hit univerity.
17:14:11 <ranavin>	canageek: I don't think we actually had a windows machine until...1998? 1999? when we got one for gaming.
17:14:18 <jiggawattz121>	QUESTION: what are some high point moments you can remember making SS?
17:14:33 <canageek>	ranavin: At least you avoided Mac. I had to use them at school.
17:14:43 <ranavin>	canageek: my friend down the street had a mac
17:14:59 <ranavin>	So I got all the fun of playing Lunicus Station and Journeyman Project and Iron Helix without needing to actually use a mac
17:15:02 <ranavin>	It was pretty great
17:15:10 <landrosradick>	QUESTION: If a new System Shock game were to be made, would you prefer it to be Kickstarted or Publisher funded? And would you drop everything to join the development if they got the gang back together?
17:15:57 <canageek>	I finished Saints Row 2 recently, and The Last Remnent.
17:16:14 <azriel1987>	Im a university student and though my time is precious I still have a time to play long game in short bursts thanks to the power of save/load
17:16:29 <canageek>	Fallout 3 is one of my all time favouite games, but the late game is boring, so I've never gotten much beyond Project Purity as by then I'm maxing out my level.
17:16:57 <ranavin>	And there goes the grove!
17:17:07 <nathandarcy>	That TriOp chime is still my SMS notification sound to this day :)
17:17:08 <ranavin>	At something like 0.3c, in order to reach Tau Ceti in time
17:17:12 <rygorous>	Where did all that kinetic energy come from? :)
17:17:12 <jasohavents>	And the begining to the plot of SS
17:17:12 <azriel1987>	SS2 foreshadowing
17:17:22 <valet2>	you forgot your ipod in that grove?
17:17:30 <ranavin>	nathandarcy: it was my sound on my old phone but I never bothered porting it to the new one. I should do that.
17:17:37 <koshirro>	and that sets up system shock 2 :)
17:17:39 <jasohavents>	Azriel1987 IDK if they really knew there would be a SS2
17:17:39 <uhee>	Never got how the stuff from SS1 could possibly end up in SS2
17:17:44 <canageek>	I do find that I like RPGs an TRPGs a lot less then I expected now that I have a gaming PC. I'm more likely to play an action game or Civ IV again then load up Wasteland 2, Baldur's Gate, etc, since I want to be immersed in them.
17:17:46 <clorf>	I wonder if the number of groves visible in those videos are consistent with the number of groves you've jettisoned
17:18:22 <ranavin>	The surgical bay on 7 can take a while to get to, I'm not sure symbol and I will stay with the stream that long.
17:18:26 <ranavin>	I do like deck 7 though.
17:18:56 <koshirro>	haha i love how shodan keeps interrupting rebecca's emails
17:18:59 <azriel1987>	7th floor, is that the really tall floor?
17:19:14 <nathandarcy>	No, that's security, Lvl 8
17:19:25 <ranavin>	Deck 7, Engineering: http://funkyhorror.ancilla.ca/toxicfrog/ss1/maps/map.html#7,* -- definitely the largest and probably the most complicated level in the game.
17:19:41 <azriel1987>	2 cyborg assassins
17:21:28 <koshirro>	deck 7 is deadly
17:21:39 <ranavin>	...four? I can think of three...
17:21:49 <nathandarcy>	Deck 7 is awesome. And we get the Skorpion there.
17:22:19 <drtwox>	@Landrosradick They spoke about that (Kickstarter for spiritual sequel) in the last stream; can't recall all the details, but most said they would chip in at a hight tier and offer some advice, but most people have moved on to other jobs and careers now.
17:22:29 <unn_atropos>	 well we told you^^
17:22:40 <landrosradick>	Thanks Drtwox, I will watch it!
17:23:09 <nathandarcy>	No, the Skorpion first appears in Lvl 7
17:23:11 <canageek>	This game came out when I was 6
17:23:37 <ranavin>	BTW, they will be entering level 7 at (26,34) and then, I predict, immediately getting ganked by a cyborg assassin/sec-1 bot team.
17:23:39 <canageek>	How does it feel to know this game is older then some of the people I've seen playing it?
17:24:17 <kosherx>	yeah, 4 year olds plays this game Kappa
17:24:25 <rygorous>	Good answer :)
17:24:58 <nathandarcy>	Look right!
17:25:05 <koshirro>	shodan sounds PISSED
17:25:19 <axeman808>	This game and Terminator Future Shock put me on the correct QWES configuration
17:25:26 <ranavin>	I like the way SHODAN gets more and more pissed at you over the course of the game.
17:25:27 <jasohavents>	Why doesn't shodan just email you a virus?
17:26:00 <unn_atropos>	who voiced messman?
17:26:23 <azriel1987>	SHODAN is really a cliche villain like goldfinger
17:26:36 <koshirro>	because of norton 2072, jaso
17:26:46 <jasohavents>	kek.
17:26:47 <clorf>	SHODAN is the closest thing to Hans Gruber in video games
17:26:59 <axeman808>	Cliches weren't cliches the first 2-3 times they were used
17:27:08 <jasohavents>	Symantec is bettar.
17:27:15 <jasohavents>	Its corporate edition
17:27:21 <voodoo47>	almost forgot - if I remember correctly, mahk has mentioned that he tried to check the legal state of the Shock IP a bunch of years ago, and found out it has been held by multiple entities - afaik, everything EA had should be expired now, so anyone wanting to maybe kickstart Shock3 would only have to deal with meadowbrook/star insurance.
17:27:30 <jasohavents>	Or Tri-optimum brand anti-virus
17:27:37 <drtwox>	Dev question for the programmers: Have you been following Jon Blow's talks about creating a new programming language tailored for game dev? I'm not asking for comments of support or criticism of specific ideas, just a general feeling about C and C++ in game dev and whether you can see a near-future when they are no longer the norm for engine dev. (Perhaps this question is too narrow to cover here...)
17:27:50 <canageek>	Oh: Follow up question: How does it feel to have influenced pop culture so much (Shodan begat Galdos, and System Shock begat Bioshock and Deus Ex...)? Do you ever seen something like that and think "Man, that song/game/meme is totally based off something I did?"
17:27:53 <nathandarcy>	Go for the Skorpion!
17:28:02 <jasohavents>	WAIT
17:28:02 <nathandarcy>	You're missing it
17:28:14 <jasohavents>	Meadowbrook has the rights for this?
17:28:16 <azriel1987>	SHODAN: now i will download myself to the earth PC (because they did not heard of anti virus in the future) and nobody will stop me....HAHAHA
17:28:22 <nothings2>	@Drtwox yeah, I think it's too narrow
17:28:25 <jasohavents>	Their corporate office is like in the same town as mine Xd
17:28:28 <jasohavents>	*XD
17:28:31 <dicek_minamimoto>	o.0
17:28:43 <voodoo47>	yeah, the Shock ip should now be owned solely by meadowbrook/star insurance
17:28:49 <jasohavents>	They're a milk company
17:28:51 <dicek_minamimoto>	You guys should totally record this and put it up on Youtube. Disable the comments. >.>
17:28:52 <jasohavents>	XD
17:28:52 <nathandarcy>	The tunnel to the right on that hallway
17:29:15 <landrosradick>	they did/will Dicek
17:29:18 <valet2>	i'm recording it, with comments. will upload on youtube
17:29:20 <nathandarcy>	Above the elevator!
17:29:30 <nathandarcy>	There's your practical joke :)
17:29:32 <nothings2>	@Drtwox (I both agree and disagree with him in various aspects, and I am the 'Sean' whose syntax he was cribbing)
17:29:43 <rmsquires>	please release this on youtube
17:29:59 <nothings2>	@Rmsquires It will be, the first one already is.
17:30:05 <landrosradick>	its on https://www.youtube.com/user/algorithmancyTube/videos
17:30:07 <rygorous>	First part is already on youtube https://www.youtube.com/user/algorithmancyTube/videos
17:30:10 <landrosradick>	you can see the previous streams of this there
17:30:10 <voodoo47>	so in theory, anyone wanting to make a Shock sequel would only need to deal with them.
17:30:56 <valet2>	I've already uploaded the previous video with comments on youtube. I'll do it with that walkthrough as well. youtube.com/valet2
17:32:06 <canageek>	I'm still waiting for that story
17:32:24 <valet2>	Here's the previous session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LDiTZ89j-Q&list=UUeoqhtujxGb56hJcwo8lKqQ
17:32:45 <dicek_minamimoto>	awesome. Thanks guys
17:34:28 <clorf>	what does it rank you on?
17:35:07 <canageek>	As long as there isn't a hidden score that is really hard to raise that locks you out of the good ending. *Glares at Ogre Battle 64*
17:35:10 <azriel1987>	you can do the same with the loot on the bodies
17:35:10 <bureaucratique>	If it was like Resident Evil, your score would lower from use of Tri-Optimum products.
17:35:53 <drtwox>	Dev question: This was partly covered in the first video, where someone joked about writing a design document, throwing it out and getting on with development... but how much of what we see in the final game was planned before any code was written? Obviously ideas were introduced, iterated, improved and discarded as development proceeded, but what core gameplay and design ideas ideas lasted from the beginning to the end?
17:36:24 <landrosradick>	great question
17:37:21 <koshirro>	doug's experience with lockpicking? what was he doing before lgs?
17:37:44 <landrosradick>	hacking prisons and government institutions
17:37:46 <landrosradick>	lol
17:37:53 <drtwox>	@Koshirro Lock picking is a popular geek hobby!
17:38:31 <jiggawattz121>	kids these days just use bump keys
17:38:41 <koshirro>	i know lockpicking
17:39:00 <koshirro>	those mines killed me the first time
17:39:16 <dicek_minamimoto>	>.>
17:39:48 <dicek_minamimoto>	GGs
17:39:51 <clorf>	is there any way to defuse land mins?
17:39:57 <koshirro>	go out on a high note at least
17:40:01 <koshirro>	trigger those mines
17:40:06 <clorf>	like maybe vaporizing them with the sparq beam or something
17:40:07 <drtwox>	Double click blows them up; I thought that was Shodan hacking your display ;)
17:40:37 <rygorous>	Well, it's correctly telling you that you can double-click to interact with land mines.
17:40:44 <azriel1987>	just kill yourself
17:40:47 <rygorous>	It might not be the interaction you were hoping for. :)
17:41:00 <clorf>	also what about the credits?
17:41:26 <rygorous>	close enough
17:41:31 <dicek_minamimoto>	You guys are awesome! xD
17:41:33 <jasohavents>	can you play the bad death scene just so newcomers can see it?
17:41:38 <orihaus>	"My memo's are never good?" Man I've wondered what that said for so long
17:41:46 <valet2>	salt the fries? bloodshot pizzabox?
17:41:50 <orihaus>	Thought it was "My levels of energy"
17:41:51 <landrosradick>	How close were you guys with the folks at Origin?
17:41:58 <jiggawattz121>	QUESTION: what do you think of the occulus?
17:42:04 <canageek>	I'm still waiting for that story
17:42:05 <psymong>	might've been asked before, but what is 'salt the fries all about'?
17:42:05 <koshirro>	terri was still credited as terri barous
17:42:27 <valet2>	and who's that tim ries who wrote the elevator theme?
17:42:41 <rygorous>	psymong: google it :)
17:42:45 <ranavin>	I forgot how difficult to read the credits text was.
17:42:52 <psymong>	very well, i shall
17:43:10 <landrosradick>	Question: Have you seen the Routine game by Lunar Software? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAcAd1fUiy8
17:44:03 <koshirro>	elevator theme is really good Q&A music
17:45:09 <mrstarker>	Thanks, guys. It's been one hell of a ride, and I don't mean this playthrough.
17:47:13 <psymong>	lol, thanks guys
17:47:24 <voodoo47>	I think I need to repeat this - the Shock ip is currently owned just by meadowbrook/star insurance, so if maybe you guys wanted to kickstart Shock3 or something, you would only have to deal with one legal entity as far as I'm aware.
17:47:48 <drtwox>	Dev question: Was prototyping games prevalent back then? Did LGS prototype anything interesting that you wish did get made into a full game? Any crazy ideas tried that (rightfully!) got the bullet?
17:48:09 <rmsquires>	Blood is another annoying IP, the owners have refused permission to make an updated version
17:48:37 <clorf>	those insurance companies usually ask for an unreasonable amount of money to let go of IP
17:48:53 <jiggawattz121>	lol
17:49:00 <voodoo47>	still better than EA
17:49:15 <clorf>	no, even EA would be more reasonable
17:49:21 <voodoo47>	'nyway, now it should be at least possible.
17:49:32 <koshirro>	was the mac version done in studio or was it outsourced? was there any differences between the versions other than mac version's lack of dynamic music (but higher quality audio)
17:49:49 <voodoo47>	and they can be reasoned with, the GOG release of SS2 is the proof of that
17:50:42 <azriel1987>	from what i heard the insurance company that hold the license to SS want to have a share in future profits from the license if anybody will buy it from them...
17:51:11 <voodoo47>	that's correct, I believe.
17:52:14 <voodoo47>	EA stuff should be all expired.
17:52:34 <canageek>	Why did an insurance company wind up with game rights? o.0
17:52:40 <jiggawattz121>	AFTERSHOCK
17:52:56 <koshirro>	because looking glass folded
17:52:57 <clorf>	Tetrashock
17:53:00 <drtwox>	3rd Shcok :O Brilliant!
17:53:07 <canageek>	Torment is another example of that
17:53:07 <bureaucratique>	Triple Shock
17:53:16 <arbiejnr>	System Shock is half owned by Spector too right? Can't ever see an official System Shock 3 ever.
17:53:26 <rygorous>	canageek: LGS was owned by another company at some point.
17:53:49 <canageek>	Oh: Follow up question: How does it feel to have influenced pop culture so much (Shodan begat Galdos, and System Shock begat Bioshock and Deus Ex...)? Do you ever seen something like that and think "Man, that song/game/meme is totally based off something I did?"
17:53:50 <landrosradick>	Wasnt there a Terminator game called Aftershock
17:53:51 <rygorous>	canageek: LGS went belly-up and whatever legal entity now owns the company that used to own LGS inherited those right.
17:53:52 <psymong>	bios fear?
17:53:57 <psymong>	:D
17:53:59 <rygorous>	+s
17:54:09 <bureaucratique>	There's a lot of Cyberias
17:54:17 <jiggawattz121>	To add to the file humility.txt, I worked on an ill fated attempt to port Unreal to the PSX with a new game experience... we never shipped. To this day people contact me asking for assets I might have on backups somewhere.
17:54:32 <voodoo47>	yeah, Citadel for Amiga
17:55:14 <chuckfiniey>	SO SAY WE ALL
17:55:16 <drtwox>	Dev question (repost): Was prototyping games prevalent back then? Did LGS prototype anything interesting that you wish did get made into a full game? Any crazy ideas tried that (rightfully!) got the bullet?
17:55:33 <jiggawattz121>	THANKS
17:55:47 <canageek>	I'm still waiting for the story about the gamer younger then the game
17:56:03 <landrosradick>	Thanks so much guys and also to the chat members! You guys made this awesome and was great to talk about and relive some nostalgia
17:56:05 <rygorous>	Did LGS ever finish a game that you wish had been killed at the prototype stage? :)
17:56:33 <darkarchville>	dromEd as in dromedary, right ?
17:56:37 <timstellmach>	The N64 games weren't such a smart move as it turned out.
17:56:39 <dorianhart>	Right!
17:56:45 <canageek>	Thank you!
17:57:31 <koshirro>	 dark camelot>camel>dromedary>dromed
17:57:43 <drtwox>	Thank you all!
17:57:43 <timstellmach>	(Fun Fact: LG developed N64 games)
17:57:48 <rygorous>	heh. :)
17:57:48 <ranavin>	Thank you Mahk et al for running the stream, this was super fun
17:57:50 <thoth7>	I had a similar moment with some of my pen-and-paper RPG group - when talking about how long they'd been playing D&D for, it turned out that I'd been playing it for longer than any of them have been alive
17:57:51 <landrosradick>	Shacknews.com thanks you!
17:57:54 <rygorous>	Didn't know that :)
17:57:56 <jasohavents>	You guys are awesome!
17:57:58 <thoth7>	(and then I felt very, very old)
17:57:58 <canageek>	Thank you
17:57:59 <mypalmike>	mini kart racer thing
17:58:03 <ranavin>	Hats off
17:58:03 <jasohavents>	REMEMBER CITADEL!
17:58:05 <canageek>	Thanks for putting up with a young'un like myself
17:58:16 <psymong>	wonderful, thanks very much guys!
17:58:18 <rmsquires>	ya Shack loves the....Shock!
17:58:20 <valet2>	Thanks! SS2 walkthrough with its devs would be AWESOME too!
17:58:21 <thoth7>	g'night all
17:58:22 <rygorous>	Thank you!
17:58:25 <gnrl_kitty>	G'night
17:58:25 <bureaucratique>	Thanks!
17:58:27 <voodoo47>	see you next week!
17:58:28 <unn_atropos>	good night
17:58:30 <chuckfiniey>	Good night!!
17:58:31 <zollington>	goodnight thanks for the stream :D
17:58:35 <jasohavents>	YOU CANT STOP THE SHOCK!
17:58:40 <azriel1987>	Good night!
17:58:44 <mypalmike>	enjoyed watching. goodnight
17:58:45 <mebahell>	bye
17:58:46 <koshirro>	this might be the greatest piece of music in the video game history
17:58:58 <orihaus>	""""""SALT THE FRIES""""""
17:59:07 <mrstarker>	Be seeing you.
17:59:17 <jasohavents>	I love this community.
17:59:21 <jasohavents>	and this game
17:59:24 <jasohavents>	someone hold me
17:59:30 <jasohavents>	I'ms gonna cry...
17:59:31 <psymong>	i already am
17:59:35 <rygorous>	I also love that there was this troll a few hours ago
17:59:49 <jasohavents>	What trool (I get your point)
17:59:54 <jasohavents>	*Troll
17:59:54 <rygorous>	who tried to bait people by throwing random insults, and he just got completely ignored :)
17:59:54 <ranavin>	Goodnight, LGS.