gistfile1.irclog

10:34 < charl> hi all, i am busy working on an alternative im/voip/file sharing protocol based around a (truly) distributed server architecture using encryption as a base
10:35 < charl> i was referred to this channel by a contact of mine
10:35 < charl> what i have so far: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7597323
10:35 < charl> would love to hear any ideas / feedback any of you might have
10:35 < drizztbsd> skype clone? :)
10:37 < charl> drizztbsd: no most definitely not
10:37 < Ge0rG> charl: how are you going to bootstrap "trusted servers"?
10:38 < charl> drizztbsd: firstly, it's standards based, and skype still has a central login system
10:38 < charl> Ge0rG: not sure i understand the question?
10:38 < charl> define bootstrap
10:38 < Ge0rG> charl: if I want to use it, I do not trust anyone. how am I going to connect?
10:39 < charl> Ge0rG: no server is truly trusted, only as far as they have to be, and you decide which servers to connect to
10:39 < charl> Ge0rG: the only two things you trust the server with is a) your client ip address and b) the ability to know who you're talking to
10:39 < charl> Ge0rG: those are both out of necessity only
10:40 < Ge0rG> charl: knowing who you are talking to is a _hard_ problem
10:40 < charl> Ge0rG: most definitely, and that's why i base the idea around letting the server know the absolute minimum only
10:42 < charl> Ge0rG: the main differences with xmpp is that a) you can use multiple servers (no single point of failure, except the client of course) and b) after you "log out" the server isn't *supposed* to 
               retain any data about your connection
10:43 < charl> Ge0rG: the latter of course can't be enforced but the protocol does allow for it (no "account data" etc is necessary, you can boot a server from a read only device for example)
10:44 < drizztbsd> you could use tor for sip and non-tor for (z)RTP :P
10:44 < Ge0rG> charl: I don't want to disencourage you, but creating a secure chat/voip application is a massive effort
10:44 < charl> drizztbsd: tor is exactly what i am trying to avoid, it's too slow
10:45 < drizztbsd> SIP is only a segnaling protocol
10:45 < drizztbsd> segnalation*
10:45 -!- marlowe [~marlowe@gateway/tor-sasl/marlowe] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
10:45 < charl> drizztbsd: besides, i'm not that worried about creating full anonimity, but i do want to keep the client ip hidden from the "public" so to speak
10:46 < charl> Ge0rG: this is more an issue of getting some thoughts down, i'm not trying to create a full stack of applications by myself
10:46 < charl> Ge0rG: a simple way of starting out for example would be to create a command line im application, for example
10:46 < drizztbsd> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer-to-peer_SIP
10:47 < Ge0rG> charl: ideas are cheap. and nobody will use a cmdline app
10:47 < charl> Ge0rG: i for one would ?
10:47  * Ge0rG is using irssi btw ;-)
10:47 -!- chrisballinger [~chrisbal@108-78-250-169.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #guardianproject
10:47 < charl> Ge0rG: same here :)
10:48  * drizztbsd hides
10:48 < Ge0rG> charl: have a look at tor, nightweb and freenet for existing things.
10:48 < chrisballinger> yoooo just got my SOCKS wrapper working
10:48 < Ge0rG> charl: also, first you need to define your security requirements.
10:49 -!- chrisballinger [~chrisbal@108-78-250-169.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit]
10:50 < charl> drizztbsd: thanks for the link, sounds interesting, i'm going to research it
10:50 < charl> Ge0rG: that's true, i need to document it better
10:50 < Ge0rG> charl: IMHO you should contribute to existing projects instead of starting a new one
10:51 < charl> Ge0rG: any suggestions?
10:51 < charl> Ge0rG: if there is an existing project with enough overlap i would most definitely want to join that instead, but i couldn't find any
10:51 < Ge0rG> charl: http://yaxim.org/ ;)
10:51 < charl> Ge0rG: there are a bunch of initiatives but most of them are proprietary
10:52 < Ge0rG> charl: this channel is probably the best place to stick
10:52 < charl> Ge0rG: yaxim is just, exactly as it's put, yet another xmpp client
10:52 < charl> Ge0rG: i use xmpp right now for about everything, but that's exactly what i want to get rid of :)
10:54 < charl> drizztbsd: P2P-SIP/OverSim/P2PNS looks extremely interesting but is very far removed from what i want to do
10:56 < charl> ZRTP looks very relevant though
10:56 < drizztbsd> zrtp is used by ostel too
10:59 < charl> looking at ostel now, this looks extremely good, i wonder why i haven't found it before
11:00 < charl> i'm going to try it with some people
11:00 < drizztbsd> ostel proxy any zrtp connections, so the other peer doesn't see your ip
11:00 < drizztbsd> ;)
11:02 < charl> what i want to do is create a generic way to communicate between hosts, and then "proxy" any type of traffic across that encrypted connection
11:02 < charl> it could be im/voip/video conferencing/file sharing/remote desktop sharing/etc that's all application specific
11:03 -!- padraic [~Thunderbi@149.157.61.231] has joined #guardianproject
11:03 < charl> ok lemme first go off and do some more reading, experimenting and thinking :) thanks for the good input so far!