bshambaugh/gist:47f9aba6394f678ef42d7e3b71e0cc89

## gistfile1.txt
bshambaugh
 —
11/22/2022 7:34 PM
fwiw, I've kind of grown skeptical of how UCANs might fit into my project. I common argument I have is the chain would get to long and be too heavy for the little devices. (why not sign a chain of hashes...hash sign...hash..sign...gossip...idk my mind is tired now... if I want an adventure game if I visit one station then the next (of course I need to decide on my use case..there is more than one I give for Blinky). I did a demo at IIW and am in progress of gathering my thoughts though. Some even asked that a put together a post-demo video.
expede
 —
11/22/2022 7:40 PM
That's too bad! I'd love to learn more about your use case!

    I common argument I have is the chain would get to long and be too heavy for the little devices.

This is a concern that we hear from time-to-time, but have yet to run into in practice. Typically delegation DAGs are much wider than they are deep.

However, because it comes up, here's a few things that help:

1. Content addressing the chain means that you don't need to move the entire chain around in a single payload and the proofs memoize really well (by hash)

2. In theory, you can shorten chains by having someone earlier in the chain issue you a shorter credential with the same level of power — but we've yet to run into a scenario for this.

3. A few folks have suggested exploring ZKPs to replace proof chains, which makes proofs a fixed (small) size. They take time to create, so you can still use chains for fast things and use a ZKP as a compression step
But also: chained certificates may not work for your use case! They are very expressive, but there isn't one system to rule them all. I'd love to find out where you land 🙂


bshambaugh
 —
11/25/2022 3:01 PM
Thanks for the info Brookyln. I'm working towards putting together a YouTube video for the Demo that I did at IIW 35. I will share, and Happy Thanksgiving even though I imagine Canadians don't celebrate it.
expede
 —
11/25/2022 5:05 PM
Yeah, Canadian Thanksgiving is in October. Happy (American) Thanksgiving to you!! 🦃 🇺🇸

bshambaugh
 —
12/09/2022 5:45 PM
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/didcomm-ask-me-anything-with-sam-curren-tickets-482576969707?keep_tld=1
Eventbrite
DIDComm "Ask me Anything" with Sam Curren
Join us for the first our series of "Ask me Anything" sessions with our engineering community at the Decentralized Identity Foundation.
I am planning on going to this.
bshambaugh
 —
12/15/2022 6:01 PM
@expede , I am still refactoring my code. I believe I finished the C/C++ side . Now I am looking at the Node.js side.  Along the way I met some people with FIDO IoT who aim to make plugging in an IoT device like "plug and play"

https://fidoalliance.org/specs/FDO/FIDO-Device-Onboard-PS-v1.1-20220419/FIDO-Device-Onboard-PS-v1.1-20220419.pdf
<--> https://fidoalliance.org/specifications/download-iot-specifications/

https://on24static.akamaized.net/event/40/18/59/5/rt/1/documents/resourceList1670426818860/whitepaperiotapplicationprovisioningforsecurityusingfdoandtpmwhitepaper1670426817203.pdf

https://on24static.akamaized.net/event/40/18/59/5/rt/1/documents/resourceList1670426854496/whitepaperfidodeviceonboardthedevicekeywhitepaper1670426853573.pdf

https://on24static.akamaized.net/event/40/18/59/5/rt/1/documents/resourceList1670426942053/whitepaperintroductiontofidodeviceonboard11670426939723.pdf
FIDO Alliance
Download IoT Specifications - FIDO Alliance
The latest versions of the FIDO Alliance IoT specifications are available below.    The FIDO Alliances publishes the following technical specifications for any implementer to download. In addition, the Alliance is […]
Anyway, this was a lot, and it is likely more important to my thought formation around IoT than your present goals.

Have a Merry Christmas!
oh, fwiw, didcomm is something that Mircea and Nick worked on with Veramo. I think it is important to have that on the edge too.
	bshambaugh
	—
	11/22/2022 7:34 PM
	fwiw, I've kind of grown skeptical of how UCANs might fit into my project. I common argument I have is the chain would get to long and be too heavy for the little devices. (why not sign a chain of hashes...hash sign...hash..sign...gossip...idk my mind is tired now... if I want an adventure game if I visit one station then the next (of course I need to decide on my use case..there is more than one I give for Blinky). I did a demo at IIW and am in progress of gathering my thoughts though. Some even asked that a put together a post-demo video.
	expede
	—
	11/22/2022 7:40 PM
	That's too bad! I'd love to learn more about your use case!

	I common argument I have is the chain would get to long and be too heavy for the little devices.

	This is a concern that we hear from time-to-time, but have yet to run into in practice. Typically delegation DAGs are much wider than they are deep.

	However, because it comes up, here's a few things that help:

	1. Content addressing the chain means that you don't need to move the entire chain around in a single payload and the proofs memoize really well (by hash)

	2. In theory, you can shorten chains by having someone earlier in the chain issue you a shorter credential with the same level of power — but we've yet to run into a scenario for this.

	3. A few folks have suggested exploring ZKPs to replace proof chains, which makes proofs a fixed (small) size. They take time to create, so you can still use chains for fast things and use a ZKP as a compression step
	But also: chained certificates may not work for your use case! They are very expressive, but there isn't one system to rule them all. I'd love to find out where you land 🙂


	bshambaugh
	—
	11/25/2022 3:01 PM
	Thanks for the info Brookyln. I'm working towards putting together a YouTube video for the Demo that I did at IIW 35. I will share, and Happy Thanksgiving even though I imagine Canadians don't celebrate it.
	expede
	—
	11/25/2022 5:05 PM
	Yeah, Canadian Thanksgiving is in October. Happy (American) Thanksgiving to you!! 🦃 🇺🇸

	bshambaugh
	—
	12/09/2022 5:45 PM
	https://www.eventbrite.com/e/didcomm-ask-me-anything-with-sam-curren-tickets-482576969707?keep_tld=1
	Eventbrite
	DIDComm "Ask me Anything" with Sam Curren
	Join us for the first our series of "Ask me Anything" sessions with our engineering community at the Decentralized Identity Foundation.
	I am planning on going to this.
	bshambaugh
	—
	12/15/2022 6:01 PM
	@expede , I am still refactoring my code. I believe I finished the C/C++ side . Now I am looking at the Node.js side. Along the way I met some people with FIDO IoT who aim to make plugging in an IoT device like "plug and play"

	https://fidoalliance.org/specs/FDO/FIDO-Device-Onboard-PS-v1.1-20220419/FIDO-Device-Onboard-PS-v1.1-20220419.pdf
	<--> https://fidoalliance.org/specifications/download-iot-specifications/

	https://on24static.akamaized.net/event/40/18/59/5/rt/1/documents/resourceList1670426818860/whitepaperiotapplicationprovisioningforsecurityusingfdoandtpmwhitepaper1670426817203.pdf

	https://on24static.akamaized.net/event/40/18/59/5/rt/1/documents/resourceList1670426854496/whitepaperfidodeviceonboardthedevicekeywhitepaper1670426853573.pdf

	https://on24static.akamaized.net/event/40/18/59/5/rt/1/documents/resourceList1670426942053/whitepaperintroductiontofidodeviceonboard11670426939723.pdf
	FIDO Alliance
	Download IoT Specifications - FIDO Alliance
	The latest versions of the FIDO Alliance IoT specifications are available below. The FIDO Alliances publishes the following technical specifications for any implementer to download. In addition, the Alliance is […]
	Anyway, this was a lot, and it is likely more important to my thought formation around IoT than your present goals.

	Have a Merry Christmas!
	oh, fwiw, didcomm is something that Mircea and Nick worked on with Veramo. I think it is important to have that on the edge too.