canton7/##java takeover.txt

## ##java takeover.txt
14:50 *** @ChanServ has changed the topic to: Welcome to ##java. Freenode community channel for java. Please keep it civil and dont spam or be political.
14:55 <cheeser> the fuck?
14:56 <cheeser> so i guess ##java has officially been hijacked by our new overlords.
14:59 <dreamreal> I wonder what the trigger was.
15:00 <dreamreal> Did they notify you at all?
15:02 <cheeser> not at all
15:03 <cheeser> so for the rest of you still here good luck.  if you want something active, we're all at libera.
15:04 <dreamreal> Java has been taken over by freenode staff, given that they weren't acting as if they deserved to be trusted, and then acted upon that distrust. The old ops have set up shop in #java on libera.chat. If you want, join us there. if not, cool beans.
15:05 <@sorcerer> actually you guys failed to deal with spam thats what brought me here
15:06 <Maldivia> considering there has been no spam here, that's rich
15:06 <dreamreal> We have had NO spam at all
15:06 <dreamreal> Can you show us evidence of spam?
15:06 <dreamreal> i mean, it's too late now, the rabbit's dead, good job
15:06 <@sorcerer>  [18:17:19]  <hawtre>    another IRC network that the people here have migrated to
15:06 <dreamreal> but I'm curious
15:06 <dreamreal> that's not spam
15:07 <dreamreal> hawtre is a regular user in ##java, not an op, and has no special privileges. They said what they said. Not spam, not automated, not advertising, just commentary.
15:07 <@sorcerer> and i also just told cheeser that if he makes sure no ones spam he can keep his channel, i even told him based on the messages i received it sounded abandoned
15:07 <dreamreal> That's like telling a woman who's been raped, "Yes, you were raped, we get it, but what were you wearing"
15:07 <dreamreal> sorcerer: not at all.
15:08 <@sorcerer> i offered him the channel back instantly when he said something
15:08 <dreamreal> But thanks for jumping the gun and basically validating the idea that we SHOULD leave.
15:08 <dreamreal> hey, it's all good.
15:08 <Maldivia> this is soo unreal; are you even listening to yourself sorcerer  ?
15:08 <dreamreal> This is exactly the behavior that we were afraid of.
15:08 <@sorcerer> I mean you act like i closed the channel i was just coming to moderate it
15:08 <dreamreal> no, you REMOVED THE ACCESS LIST.
15:08 <dreamreal> You took it over. You didn't moderate it.
15:08 <@sorcerer> which I CAN EASILY restore
15:08 <Maldivia> that's NOT the point
15:09 <Maldivia> if you want to check if something is moderated, you join, and ASK
15:09 <dreamreal> Yeah, that's like the power company saying "hey, we cut your power because we thought you might be thinking of not paying your bill."
15:09 <dreamreal> ^^^ this
15:09 <@sorcerer> no the point is youre just looking for reasons to ridicule us, and im just looking to help the community to not be annoyed by spam
15:09 <dreamreal> You quoted ONE message as an example of spam over the last WEEK. We have logs. And that one message was from a user, nothing more, and didn't justify a response from the ops.
15:09 <dreamreal> I'm not ridiculing you at all.
15:09 <dreamreal> You took the channel away.
15:10 <@sorcerer> like i said i have the access lists and could have been easily restore, you guys are the one making it a bigger deal then it is
15:10 <dreamreal> You showed us what you were willing to do. You have the axe. Keep it.
15:10 <@sorcerer> its takes me 2 seconds to restore the channel
15:10 <dreamreal> Don't want it.
15:10 <@sorcerer> i showed that i want to help the community and stop them from getting spammed.
15:10 <Maldivia> sorcerer: there were multiple ACTIVE ops in the channel when you did your hostile take over... so your arguments are really just lame excuses because you're too power hungry and afraid
15:10 <@sorcerer> but keep pushing your agenda
15:10 <@sorcerer> hostile takeover, what was hostile about it? did the people on access get banned? did the channel get cleared out?
15:10 <@sorcerer> define hostile
15:11 <dreamreal> not an agenda, we were moderating the channel, you took it over based on ONE "spam message" without observting.
15:11 <dreamreal> Sorry.
15:11 <@sorcerer> well like i said i saved the access lists and it could have been restored in 2 seconds
15:11 <dreamreal> If you'd have asked the ops what was going on we'd have told you. But too much work, I guess.
15:12 <dreamreal> I was neutral about the whole damned thing but you fixed it.
15:12 <@sorcerer> well based on upon my messages, it seemed like there was no control in here. and like i said, 2 seconds to restore the access list
15:12 <@sorcerer> but keep going
15:12 <dreamreal> The two people in the channel with the most access were active in the channel.
15:12 <dreamreal> Good luck, man.
15:22 <dreamreal> sorcerer: for the record, had you asked instead of acting, we'd have happily told you the actual situation; what's more, what we were concerned about happening is ... exactly what happened, a takeover by fiat. You can't do that crap and say "but I can restore it to what it was," because the problem is the takeover by fiat, NOT the takeover. You showed us where we stand.
15:23 <@sorcerer> no the problem is instead of correcting the situation here you just wanna say hateful shit over something that takes 5 seconds to fix and did no real damage (because youre making it out way more then it needs to be)
15:23 <@sorcerer> done responding now
15:24 <dreamreal> There wasn't a situation until you created one.
15:24 <dreamreal> c'est la vie.
15:24 <dreamreal> And nobody's saying 'hateful shit.'
15:25 <dreamreal> If you feel like us not being thrilled that you took over the channel by fiat is "hateful," fine, but the way to not get that response is to not take over the channel by fiat.
15:25 <dreamreal> Nobody's said anything negative about YOU.
15:36 <dreamreal> https://twitter.com/evanchooly/status/1404444789542723590
15:37 <dreamreal> ^^^ tweet by the guy who used to run ##java until this morning
15:44 <dreamreal> Welcome back, netsplit people. Basically, if you want ##java, you probably want to use #java on libera.chat, which is where most of the active users went. Freenode ##java got taken over by staff this morning.
	14:50 *** @ChanServ has changed the topic to: Welcome to ##java. Freenode community channel for java. Please keep it civil and dont spam or be political.
	14:55 <cheeser> the fuck?
	14:56 <cheeser> so i guess ##java has officially been hijacked by our new overlords.
	14:59 <dreamreal> I wonder what the trigger was.
	15:00 <dreamreal> Did they notify you at all?
	15:02 <cheeser> not at all
	15:03 <cheeser> so for the rest of you still here good luck. if you want something active, we're all at libera.
	15:04 <dreamreal> Java has been taken over by freenode staff, given that they weren't acting as if they deserved to be trusted, and then acted upon that distrust. The old ops have set up shop in #java on libera.chat. If you want, join us there. if not, cool beans.
	15:05 <@sorcerer> actually you guys failed to deal with spam thats what brought me here
	15:06 <Maldivia> considering there has been no spam here, that's rich
	15:06 <dreamreal> We have had NO spam at all
	15:06 <dreamreal> Can you show us evidence of spam?
	15:06 <dreamreal> i mean, it's too late now, the rabbit's dead, good job
	15:06 <@sorcerer> [18:17:19] <hawtre> another IRC network that the people here have migrated to
	15:06 <dreamreal> but I'm curious
	15:06 <dreamreal> that's not spam
	15:07 <dreamreal> hawtre is a regular user in ##java, not an op, and has no special privileges. They said what they said. Not spam, not automated, not advertising, just commentary.
	15:07 <@sorcerer> and i also just told cheeser that if he makes sure no ones spam he can keep his channel, i even told him based on the messages i received it sounded abandoned
	15:07 <dreamreal> That's like telling a woman who's been raped, "Yes, you were raped, we get it, but what were you wearing"
	15:07 <dreamreal> sorcerer: not at all.
	15:08 <@sorcerer> i offered him the channel back instantly when he said something
	15:08 <dreamreal> But thanks for jumping the gun and basically validating the idea that we SHOULD leave.
	15:08 <dreamreal> hey, it's all good.
	15:08 <Maldivia> this is soo unreal; are you even listening to yourself sorcerer ?
	15:08 <dreamreal> This is exactly the behavior that we were afraid of.
	15:08 <@sorcerer> I mean you act like i closed the channel i was just coming to moderate it
	15:08 <dreamreal> no, you REMOVED THE ACCESS LIST.
	15:08 <dreamreal> You took it over. You didn't moderate it.
	15:08 <@sorcerer> which I CAN EASILY restore
	15:08 <Maldivia> that's NOT the point
	15:09 <Maldivia> if you want to check if something is moderated, you join, and ASK
	15:09 <dreamreal> Yeah, that's like the power company saying "hey, we cut your power because we thought you might be thinking of not paying your bill."
	15:09 <dreamreal> ^^^ this
	15:09 <@sorcerer> no the point is youre just looking for reasons to ridicule us, and im just looking to help the community to not be annoyed by spam
	15:09 <dreamreal> You quoted ONE message as an example of spam over the last WEEK. We have logs. And that one message was from a user, nothing more, and didn't justify a response from the ops.
	15:09 <dreamreal> I'm not ridiculing you at all.
	15:09 <dreamreal> You took the channel away.
	15:10 <@sorcerer> like i said i have the access lists and could have been easily restore, you guys are the one making it a bigger deal then it is
	15:10 <dreamreal> You showed us what you were willing to do. You have the axe. Keep it.
	15:10 <@sorcerer> its takes me 2 seconds to restore the channel
	15:10 <dreamreal> Don't want it.
	15:10 <@sorcerer> i showed that i want to help the community and stop them from getting spammed.
	15:10 <Maldivia> sorcerer: there were multiple ACTIVE ops in the channel when you did your hostile take over... so your arguments are really just lame excuses because you're too power hungry and afraid
	15:10 <@sorcerer> but keep pushing your agenda
	15:10 <@sorcerer> hostile takeover, what was hostile about it? did the people on access get banned? did the channel get cleared out?
	15:10 <@sorcerer> define hostile
	15:11 <dreamreal> not an agenda, we were moderating the channel, you took it over based on ONE "spam message" without observting.
	15:11 <dreamreal> Sorry.
	15:11 <@sorcerer> well like i said i saved the access lists and it could have been restored in 2 seconds
	15:11 <dreamreal> If you'd have asked the ops what was going on we'd have told you. But too much work, I guess.
	15:12 <dreamreal> I was neutral about the whole damned thing but you fixed it.
	15:12 <@sorcerer> well based on upon my messages, it seemed like there was no control in here. and like i said, 2 seconds to restore the access list
	15:12 <@sorcerer> but keep going
	15:12 <dreamreal> The two people in the channel with the most access were active in the channel.
	15:12 <dreamreal> Good luck, man.
	15:22 <dreamreal> sorcerer: for the record, had you asked instead of acting, we'd have happily told you the actual situation; what's more, what we were concerned about happening is ... exactly what happened, a takeover by fiat. You can't do that crap and say "but I can restore it to what it was," because the problem is the takeover by fiat, NOT the takeover. You showed us where we stand.
	15:23 <@sorcerer> no the problem is instead of correcting the situation here you just wanna say hateful shit over something that takes 5 seconds to fix and did no real damage (because youre making it out way more then it needs to be)
	15:23 <@sorcerer> done responding now
	15:24 <dreamreal> There wasn't a situation until you created one.
	15:24 <dreamreal> c'est la vie.
	15:24 <dreamreal> And nobody's saying 'hateful shit.'
	15:25 <dreamreal> If you feel like us not being thrilled that you took over the channel by fiat is "hateful," fine, but the way to not get that response is to not take over the channel by fiat.
	15:25 <dreamreal> Nobody's said anything negative about YOU.
	15:36 <dreamreal> https://twitter.com/evanchooly/status/1404444789542723590
	15:37 <dreamreal> ^^^ tweet by the guy who used to run ##java until this morning
	15:44 <dreamreal> Welcome back, netsplit people. Basically, if you want ##java, you probably want to use #java on libera.chat, which is where most of the active users went. Freenode ##java got taken over by staff this morning.