drtshock/dbo comments

## dbo comments
filoghost: For everyone reading: I apologize, my reaction was exaggerated. If possible, could we delete all this messages and talk in private?

erisawesome: @filoghost: Go

Sorry if it is not my place to say but, it's not exactly immoral to use a feature that was suggested by another player that your plugin has. If that were the case then he is coping your entire plugin by having a plugin that adds holograms in Minecraft. In fact, you're coping Asdjke for the idea of holographs in Minecraft. But you don't see him coming after you for "stealing his idea." To be even more extreme, the person who first came up with the idea of a hologram is not coming after you for stealing his idea. What about KHobbits and ElgarL? They made the Essentials plugin, but they have no problem with sk89q using their ideas in CommandBook. You on the other hand are freaking out because he used a small idea from your plugin in his. Why? Because you see DSH's version as a serious competitor. This plugin is just as good or better than your plugin and you are scared that people won't use your plugin. But the truth of the matter is, why does it matter? You are not getting paid to make plugins, you don't get payed salary. You should not care about how many people use your plugin because it simply doesn't matter. In fact, you should be happy someone is innovating on your ideas. That someone admires your work enough to improve upon it. So I ask you: Please don't continue this meaningless fight.

filoghost: @JOPHESTUS: Go It was a friendly competition. I don't simply get over it, although I cannot force him to remove this feature. It's simply not morally correct. I guess that DSH was already aware of my "&u" feature, but he added it anyway immediately after he was asked to. In the past I even avoided to add things that were similar to HoloApi just for fairness, I considered DSH a good developer. Well, I was wrong.

I do not have any right, ok, but it's not morally correct to copy + paste a thing from another plugin. And please, DSH, answer. I know you're reading.

JOPHESTUS: @filoghost: Go

Get over it kiddo. The fact that you think you have absolute rights to a feature is just ridiculous! Anyone or any project can freely add features that another plugin may have- so long as the code is not 'stolen'. This is the real world, plugin authors add stuff, why make a fuss over it?

I also might add, why the competition? I can understand a friendly mutual 'race' to see who releases a version first like there was at the start, but for it to be a competitive ongoing thing is simply not healthy. It shouldn't be about fighting each other, it should be about working with each other.

filoghost: @DSH105: Go And I don't stalk this page, I would have stopped you before.

filoghost: @DSH105: Go Even the chat hover feature for commands was mine, but it was copied (I don't know when and if under request). And you can clearly see from the image the text "Holographic Displays": at least, you should have took a look at my plugin's page. I'm angry because it was an exclusive feature of my plugin.

DSH105: @filoghost: Go It was requested below, as you can see with your own eyes. I coded it into HoloAPI without looking at your plugin (I haven't gone anywhere near your source code). Does this constitute as copying on my part if it was a requested feature? What's more is that you were obviously 'stalking' this page, seeing as your comment has appeared within 2 hours of the feature being added. Still 'fair competition'? I shouldn't have to defend myself against a feature that was requested by a user. If you want me to go further, maybe you should also question why he was requesting it here, instead of using your own plugin.

filoghost: @DSH105: Go Hey, that feature is copied from my plugin. I don't like how you're copying features. I thought that was a fair competition.

## filoghost
[23:51:39] 	 filoghost (webchat@2-233-85-39.ip216.fastwebnet.it) joined the channel.
[23:51:58]  <filoghost>	 Hello DSH...
[23:52:56]  <@drtshock>	 oh hey
[23:52:59]  <@drtshock>	 DSH105 if you're here
[23:53:00]  <@drtshock>	 filoghost what's up
[23:53:10]  <stuntguy3000>	 HEY DRTSHOCK
[23:53:14]  <@drtshock>	 hi
[23:53:16]  <filoghost>	 I want to apologize for my reaction.
[23:53:24]  <stuntguy3000>	 filoghost: Dsh is not here
[23:53:47]  <filoghost>	 Ok I'll come back later after school
[23:53:57]  <@drtshock>	 can speak to me if you'd like.
[23:54:01]  <@drtshock>	 he'll see it when he gets back.
[23:54:04]  <stuntguy3000>	 However, I accept for apology for whatever you did.
[23:54:14]  <stuntguy3000>	 And Chester might accept it aswell,
[23:54:14]  <Chester>	 if I come? I *might* have talked to myself
[23:54:32]  <filoghost>	 However it makes sense that I was a bit angry
[23:54:38]  <@drtshock>	 filoghost: i hope you don't still think that it's wrong of DSH105 to add something to his plugin and that you're not just apologizing for his reaction.
[23:54:42]  <@drtshock>	 filoghost: no it doesn't.
[23:54:53]  <stuntguy3000>	 (What happened?
[23:54:59]  <@drtshock>	 stuntguy3000 read comments http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/holoapi/
[23:55:53]  <stuntguy3000>	 filoghost: What feature was it?
[23:57:28]  <@drtshock>	 filoghost: the fact that you have the audacity to publicly attempt to disgrace DSH105 for implementing a feature on an open source project is sad. he didn't steal any code or this would be a different conversation. if you think you have all the original ideas then you're wrong.
[23:58:17]  <stuntguy3000>	 Its just about multicolour tags? Really? All this fuss? x.e
[23:59:36]  <filoghost>	 You're right, I should have avoided it...and it's just a multicolor tag, not a main feature of the plugin
[00:00:02]  <@drtshock>	 even if it was a ripoff of the entire plugin
[00:00:04]  <@drtshock>	 doesn't matter
[00:00:19]  <stuntguy3000>	 ^
[00:00:37]  <stuntguy3000>	 drtshock hows that union coming along? :p
[00:00:40]  <@drtshock>	 hehe
[00:00:58]  <@drtshock>	 filoghost: i think you're still failing to see the point. you don't have an original idea. even if you did, someone is bound to copy it if it's good.
[00:01:10]  <filoghost>	 If the plugin comes from an idea of someone else, ok
[00:01:55]  <filoghost>	 I still do not think that if I make an original plugin there's no problem if someone copies it
[00:02:12]  <@drtshock>	 there really isn't a problem with it as long as they aren't stealing code.
[00:03:02]  <@drtshock>	 http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/healthbar/ oh look, a health bar plugin you copied.
[00:03:11]  <@drtshock>	 how shameful. i thought you were a good dev, now you're not.
[00:03:30]  <filoghost>	 I had this problem in the past unfortunately...
[00:03:33]  <stuntguy3000>	 [not sure if sarcasm]
[00:03:39]  <@drtshock>	 stuntguy3000: very sarcastic.
[00:03:56]  <@drtshock>	 filoghost: it's on a problem. competition is good.
[00:04:12]  <@drtshock>	 unless you're a communist i don't see how you could possibly have an issue with this.
[00:04:13]  <filoghost>	 That plugin was for spout and for players. I found it when creating the project.
[00:04:29]  <@drtshock>	 so? they made an original plugin and you copied it
[00:04:31]  <@drtshock>	 according to what you just sad
[00:04:34]  <@drtshock>	 said*
[00:06:53]  <filoghost>	 I did not copied it however, and the other plugin was abandoned. It's a different case
[00:07:38]  <filoghost>	 However I have no problems with
[00:07:40]  <@drtshock>	 stop trying to justify it to yourself on discrepencies. it doesn't matter who has what features as long as n one steals code.
[00:08:40]  <filoghost>	 I accepted the fact that someone can add that same features
[00:08:58]  <@drtshock>	 but you still think it's immoral
[00:09:24]  <filoghost>	 No, not anymore. At least for DSH
[00:09:59]  <@drtshock>	 you need to realize that this isn't something you take on a case by case basis. this is part of life. people will take your ideas and recreate them. that's not a bad thing. be flattered that they like your idea enough to reproduce it.
[00:10:26]  <stuntguy3000>	 One example is when Enchanting was added. The creator of the mod was pissed Notch added it with no recognition.
[00:10:54]  <stuntguy3000>	 if i created a mod which is now apart of mojang, I would be over the moon, regardless of recognition. Notch took the idea, not the code.
[00:14:11]  <filoghost>	 Ok, so it's ok if I add features that are already in HoloAPI that users ask me?
[00:14:18]  <@drtshock>	 go for it
[00:14:21]  <stuntguy3000>	 ^
[00:14:31]  <filoghost>	 Ok :)
[00:14:45]  <@drtshock>	 if you think you can do better then go for it
[00:15:35]  <filoghost>	 Maybe not better, at least equal
[00:15:49]  <@drtshock>	 competition drives innovation.
[00:16:49]  <filoghost>	 Now I learnt that it's not problem, thanks for being comprehensive.
[00:17:12]  <@drtshock>	 no problem. glad we cleared things up.
[00:17:50]  <filoghost>	 Could you ask DSH to remove the conversation? I feel stupid if I read it again.
[00:19:33]  <+blha303>	 why does that plugin need spout? you could probably do that with the scoreboard
[00:20:04]  <filoghost>	 What plugin?
[00:20:13]  <@drtshock>	 blha303: check the date.
[00:20:25]  <+blha303>	 aha
[00:20:28]  <+blha303>	 well, yeah
[00:20:36]  <@drtshock>	 filoghost: it's up to him as the project manager to delete comments on his page. he'll see these messages though. it doesn't clearly violate the curse tos otherwise i'd delete them ;P
[00:21:07]  <filoghost>	 Gtg, I will come back later to talk with him directly
[00:21:19] 	 filoghost (webchat@2-233-85-39.ip216.fastwebnet.it) left IRC. (Quit: Web client closed)
	filoghost: For everyone reading: I apologize, my reaction was exaggerated. If possible, could we delete all this messages and talk in private?

	erisawesome: @filoghost: Go

	Sorry if it is not my place to say but, it's not exactly immoral to use a feature that was suggested by another player that your plugin has. If that were the case then he is coping your entire plugin by having a plugin that adds holograms in Minecraft. In fact, you're coping Asdjke for the idea of holographs in Minecraft. But you don't see him coming after you for "stealing his idea." To be even more extreme, the person who first came up with the idea of a hologram is not coming after you for stealing his idea. What about KHobbits and ElgarL? They made the Essentials plugin, but they have no problem with sk89q using their ideas in CommandBook. You on the other hand are freaking out because he used a small idea from your plugin in his. Why? Because you see DSH's version as a serious competitor. This plugin is just as good or better than your plugin and you are scared that people won't use your plugin. But the truth of the matter is, why does it matter? You are not getting paid to make plugins, you don't get payed salary. You should not care about how many people use your plugin because it simply doesn't matter. In fact, you should be happy someone is innovating on your ideas. That someone admires your work enough to improve upon it. So I ask you: Please don't continue this meaningless fight.

	filoghost: @JOPHESTUS: Go It was a friendly competition. I don't simply get over it, although I cannot force him to remove this feature. It's simply not morally correct. I guess that DSH was already aware of my "&u" feature, but he added it anyway immediately after he was asked to. In the past I even avoided to add things that were similar to HoloApi just for fairness, I considered DSH a good developer. Well, I was wrong.

	I do not have any right, ok, but it's not morally correct to copy + paste a thing from another plugin. And please, DSH, answer. I know you're reading.

	JOPHESTUS: @filoghost: Go

	Get over it kiddo. The fact that you think you have absolute rights to a feature is just ridiculous! Anyone or any project can freely add features that another plugin may have- so long as the code is not 'stolen'. This is the real world, plugin authors add stuff, why make a fuss over it?

	I also might add, why the competition? I can understand a friendly mutual 'race' to see who releases a version first like there was at the start, but for it to be a competitive ongoing thing is simply not healthy. It shouldn't be about fighting each other, it should be about working with each other.

	filoghost: @DSH105: Go And I don't stalk this page, I would have stopped you before.

	filoghost: @DSH105: Go Even the chat hover feature for commands was mine, but it was copied (I don't know when and if under request). And you can clearly see from the image the text "Holographic Displays": at least, you should have took a look at my plugin's page. I'm angry because it was an exclusive feature of my plugin.

	DSH105: @filoghost: Go It was requested below, as you can see with your own eyes. I coded it into HoloAPI without looking at your plugin (I haven't gone anywhere near your source code). Does this constitute as copying on my part if it was a requested feature? What's more is that you were obviously 'stalking' this page, seeing as your comment has appeared within 2 hours of the feature being added. Still 'fair competition'? I shouldn't have to defend myself against a feature that was requested by a user. If you want me to go further, maybe you should also question why he was requesting it here, instead of using your own plugin.

	filoghost: @DSH105: Go Hey, that feature is copied from my plugin. I don't like how you're copying features. I thought that was a fair competition.
	[23:51:39] filoghost (webchat@2-233-85-39.ip216.fastwebnet.it) joined the channel.
	[23:51:58] <filoghost> Hello DSH...
	[23:52:56] <@drtshock> oh hey
	[23:52:59] <@drtshock> DSH105 if you're here
	[23:53:00] <@drtshock> filoghost what's up
	[23:53:10] <stuntguy3000> HEY DRTSHOCK
	[23:53:14] <@drtshock> hi
	[23:53:16] <filoghost> I want to apologize for my reaction.
	[23:53:24] <stuntguy3000> filoghost: Dsh is not here
	[23:53:47] <filoghost> Ok I'll come back later after school
	[23:53:57] <@drtshock> can speak to me if you'd like.
	[23:54:01] <@drtshock> he'll see it when he gets back.
	[23:54:04] <stuntguy3000> However, I accept for apology for whatever you did.
	[23:54:14] <stuntguy3000> And Chester might accept it aswell,
	[23:54:14] <Chester> if I come? I might have talked to myself
	[23:54:32] <filoghost> However it makes sense that I was a bit angry
	[23:54:38] <@drtshock> filoghost: i hope you don't still think that it's wrong of DSH105 to add something to his plugin and that you're not just apologizing for his reaction.
	[23:54:42] <@drtshock> filoghost: no it doesn't.
	[23:54:53] <stuntguy3000> (What happened?
	[23:54:59] <@drtshock> stuntguy3000 read comments http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/holoapi/
	[23:55:53] <stuntguy3000> filoghost: What feature was it?
	[23:57:28] <@drtshock> filoghost: the fact that you have the audacity to publicly attempt to disgrace DSH105 for implementing a feature on an open source project is sad. he didn't steal any code or this would be a different conversation. if you think you have all the original ideas then you're wrong.
	[23:58:17] <stuntguy3000> Its just about multicolour tags? Really? All this fuss? x.e
	[23:59:36] <filoghost> You're right, I should have avoided it...and it's just a multicolor tag, not a main feature of the plugin
	[00:00:02] <@drtshock> even if it was a ripoff of the entire plugin
	[00:00:04] <@drtshock> doesn't matter
	[00:00:19] <stuntguy3000> ^
	[00:00:37] <stuntguy3000> drtshock hows that union coming along? :p
	[00:00:40] <@drtshock> hehe
	[00:00:58] <@drtshock> filoghost: i think you're still failing to see the point. you don't have an original idea. even if you did, someone is bound to copy it if it's good.
	[00:01:10] <filoghost> If the plugin comes from an idea of someone else, ok
	[00:01:55] <filoghost> I still do not think that if I make an original plugin there's no problem if someone copies it
	[00:02:12] <@drtshock> there really isn't a problem with it as long as they aren't stealing code.
	[00:03:02] <@drtshock> http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/healthbar/ oh look, a health bar plugin you copied.
	[00:03:11] <@drtshock> how shameful. i thought you were a good dev, now you're not.
	[00:03:30] <filoghost> I had this problem in the past unfortunately...
	[00:03:33] <stuntguy3000> [not sure if sarcasm]
	[00:03:39] <@drtshock> stuntguy3000: very sarcastic.
	[00:03:56] <@drtshock> filoghost: it's on a problem. competition is good.
	[00:04:12] <@drtshock> unless you're a communist i don't see how you could possibly have an issue with this.
	[00:04:13] <filoghost> That plugin was for spout and for players. I found it when creating the project.
	[00:04:29] <@drtshock> so? they made an original plugin and you copied it
	[00:04:31] <@drtshock> according to what you just sad
	[00:04:34] <@drtshock> said*
	[00:06:53] <filoghost> I did not copied it however, and the other plugin was abandoned. It's a different case
	[00:07:38] <filoghost> However I have no problems with
	[00:07:40] <@drtshock> stop trying to justify it to yourself on discrepencies. it doesn't matter who has what features as long as n one steals code.
	[00:08:40] <filoghost> I accepted the fact that someone can add that same features
	[00:08:58] <@drtshock> but you still think it's immoral
	[00:09:24] <filoghost> No, not anymore. At least for DSH
	[00:09:59] <@drtshock> you need to realize that this isn't something you take on a case by case basis. this is part of life. people will take your ideas and recreate them. that's not a bad thing. be flattered that they like your idea enough to reproduce it.
	[00:10:26] <stuntguy3000> One example is when Enchanting was added. The creator of the mod was pissed Notch added it with no recognition.
	[00:10:54] <stuntguy3000> if i created a mod which is now apart of mojang, I would be over the moon, regardless of recognition. Notch took the idea, not the code.
	[00:14:11] <filoghost> Ok, so it's ok if I add features that are already in HoloAPI that users ask me?
	[00:14:18] <@drtshock> go for it
	[00:14:21] <stuntguy3000> ^
	[00:14:31] <filoghost> Ok :)
	[00:14:45] <@drtshock> if you think you can do better then go for it
	[00:15:35] <filoghost> Maybe not better, at least equal
	[00:15:49] <@drtshock> competition drives innovation.
	[00:16:49] <filoghost> Now I learnt that it's not problem, thanks for being comprehensive.
	[00:17:12] <@drtshock> no problem. glad we cleared things up.
	[00:17:50] <filoghost> Could you ask DSH to remove the conversation? I feel stupid if I read it again.
	[00:19:33] <+blha303> why does that plugin need spout? you could probably do that with the scoreboard
	[00:20:04] <filoghost> What plugin?
	[00:20:13] <@drtshock> blha303: check the date.
	[00:20:25] <+blha303> aha
	[00:20:28] <+blha303> well, yeah
	[00:20:36] <@drtshock> filoghost: it's up to him as the project manager to delete comments on his page. he'll see these messages though. it doesn't clearly violate the curse tos otherwise i'd delete them ;P
	[00:21:07] <filoghost> Gtg, I will come back later to talk with him directly
	[00:21:19] filoghost (webchat@2-233-85-39.ip216.fastwebnet.it) left IRC. (Quit: Web client closed)