Bizarre conversation on the Life Reset discord

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eaglejarl
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Today at 4:52 PM
I'm currently listening to Human Resource and thought I'd drop by to unburden myself of a thought I keep having:
IT'S FRICKIN' REAL!  YOU CAN SEE, FEEL, TOUCH, SMELL, HAVE EMOTIONS, SUFFER PAIN, AND THE PEOPLE THERE ARE SELF-AWARE!  HOW CAN YOU NOT THINK IT'S REAL?!?!?!
ahem.  Thank you, I feel much better.
Am I the only one to have felt this way?
skarface
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Today at 4:55 PM
I mean, maybe it was the simulation of feeling, etc.
eaglejarl
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Today at 4:55 PM
?
The simulation of feeling as opposed to actual feeling? 
What's the difference?
skarface
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Today at 4:55 PM
If they’re talking about programs feeling. I don’t recall exactly what you’re referencing.
eaglejarl
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Today at 4:57 PM
I was talking about Oren for all the "you can" stuff.  The point being that if your sense of the world is indistinguishable from the meatspace world then the physical reality around you should be considered real.
skarface
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Today at 4:57 PM
If it’s actually physical, sure.
eaglejarl
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Today at 4:57 PM
What's your definition of physical?
skarface
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Today at 4:58 PM
There’s only one that I know of. It actually exists in reality. It isn’t digital. Etc. 
eaglejarl
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Today at 4:58 PM
Why do you include "isn't digital" in there?
skarface
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Today at 4:59 PM
Because things on a screen are electrons, etc, and they depict physical reality. They aren’t physical reality.
eaglejarl
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Today at 4:59 PM
Can you prove that you aren't living in a digital simulation right now?  I can't.  I don't think I am but it doesn't really matter.
skarface
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Today at 4:59 PM
Sure I can. If this wasn’t real then I could reach through the screen and take your money from your wallet. It’s an infallible test.
eaglejarl
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Today at 5:00 PM
...
Why would that necessarily be part of a simulation?
skarface
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Today at 5:00 PM
Because it’s what every good simulation needs. Money grabbing!
eaglejarl
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Today at 5:00 PM
Snerk.
If you designed a digital simulation intended to replicate the meatspace world, would you make it indistinguishable from meatspace except for the one exception "can reach through the screen and grab money"?
skarface
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Today at 5:02 PM

    However, the moment we entertain skeptical scenarios (including simulation hypotheses), reason has now called into question the reliability of intuition—namely, that our cognitive powers have been put into us by someone with intent to systemically deceive. When we doubt the existence of the external world, we’re making a philosophical argument for the claim that our cognitive powers are unreliable.


>And the simulation hypothesis gives us reason to believe that our cognitive powers are unreliable. But reason is one of those cognitive faculties. The simulation hypothesis therefore gives us reason to distrust the deliverances of reason—including the simulation hypothesis. Therefore, the simulation hypothesis it is self-defeating, making it fundamentally irrational to believe. As twentieth-century philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein said, “The moment you begin to doubt everything, you won’t get so far as doubting anything” (On Certainty, part 6, 141).
eaglejarl
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Today at 5:04 PM
That seems like a flawed argument to me.  It builds in the conclusion as a premise.
skarface
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Today at 5:04 PM
The conclusion that we can know things? Haha what
You have to take some things as a priori
Like being able to reason
eaglejarl
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Today at 5:07 PM

    The universe I perceive is built on rules and is always consistent with those rules
    My intuition has developed to anticipate the outcome those rules produce under given circumstances
    My intuition is reliable to the same degree regardless of the substrate of the reality

(This is not a syllogism, it is a thesis with the parts labeled for easy discussion.)
Which part do you disagree with?
skarface
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Today at 5:09 PM
I’ve done all the philosophy I’m doing at the moment. I need to tune my brain to that or I’ll just start snarking again, haha.
eaglejarl
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Today at 5:09 PM
My point is simply that the substrate of reality does not provide special status.
skarface
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Today at 5:10 PM
Then I would like the non-special money from your wallet, please and thank you!
eaglejarl
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Today at 5:11 PM
That is possibly the most bizarre and non-sequitur response I have ever received to any argument ever. :boggle:
I shall leave you to your day.
skarface
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Today at 5:11 PM
You’re welcome!