dtgay/fedora-rpg-irc-001.txt

## fedora-rpg-irc-001.txt
Any questions about this interaction, or any requests for clarification can be directed to oddshocks.

14:13:29 < oddshocks> I am about to caption stuff that SJ says
14:13:37 < francis-game> okay
14:13:37 < oddshocks> as per his request
14:13:45 < francis-game> thanks
14:13:48 < oddshocks> No problem!
14:14:08 < oddshocks> Good thing that we have a lot of activity in the Google Doc
14:14:32 < oddshocks> At the moment, we have 5 hours worth of stubs. Links to shit
                      people have written
14:14:39 < oddshocks> That's the first baby step. Awesome.
14:14:53 < oddshocks> He wants to be clear about what he means by a research report
14:15:15 < oddshocks> A research paper should address his questions. Several pages
                      per question
14:15:38 < oddshocks> Think of every question as a detailed, documented, cited
                      essay, all on its own
14:15:54 < oddshocks> We write those, and to write those, everyone needs to READ
                      what they put in the doc
14:16:03 < oddshocks> There's a day or so left of "looking around"
14:16:41 < oddshocks> Gamecareer.com has a lot of undergraduate and masters
                      papers, probably some on some of the questions we have to
                      answer
14:16:57 < oddshocks> when you look at those papers, you will see that they have
                      cited other papers that they have read/used
14:17:17 < oddshocks> there should probably be 0.5-1 days more of finding stuff,
                      then there should be reading, then there should be discussion
14:17:47 < oddshocks> Either everyone reads everything (best option), or person X
                      takes papers Y-Z, person J takes papers K-L, then present
                      what you learned to the rest of the group
14:18:52 < oddshocks> [[he's looking something up related to tomorrow]]
14:19:55 < oddshocks> We're going to look over what we have, divide up the topic
                      areas, and have presentations by people at 3 PM tomorrow
14:20:07 < oddshocks> These presentations are on what you've found so far, and
                      then we will discuss
14:20:33 < oddshocks> Presentations should be...
14:20:42 < oddshocks> [[ajman is asking how verbose the paper should be]]
14:21:24 < oddshocks> We're looking at 2-3 pages for a topic, and we'll divide
                      presentation time up... probably about 5 minutes per person
14:22:11 < oddshocks> [[I just asked if the fossbot keeps IRC logs, turns out it
                      only does if you tell it a meeting is started (just an
                      unrelated question I asked)
14:22:31 < francis-game> my client logs IRC
14:22:34 < oddshocks> SJ is talking to Red Hat on Friday, so that's our first
                      checkpoint so to speak
14:22:48 < francis-game> and the user, haly, is my PC, it's logging everything
                         24/7 basically
14:22:52 < oddshocks> awesome. I just wanted to get the logs to Piper and Tim if
                      they're not in channel right now
14:23:08 < oddshocks> francis-game: oh, cool, a bouncer. right on. good to hear.
14:23:35 < oddshocks> [[They're talking about the Zombies, Run! game we mentioned
                      in the doc]]
14:23:44 < oddshocks> [[Explaining the game to Remy]]
14:25:11 < oddshocks> [[Discussion is currently on how we're going to be looking
                      at a few games and perhaps playing some, such as Runescape
                      and EVE to explore economies at two different ends of the
                      spectrum]]
14:25:41 < francis-game> i could give a quick rundown on eve if need be, i played
                         it for a year or so
14:25:42 < oddshocks> Things are starting to come together with the doc, tomorrow
                      we'll have stronger footing after presentations and we can
                      see where we are
14:26:37 < oddshocks> they said "perfect", "excellent", you can be our EVE guy.
                      that's for next week though
14:26:49 < oddshocks> Next week is playing games, getting experience with games
                      that are doing what we're looking for
14:27:08 < oddshocks> When SJ gets back next week, he will have had a discussion
                      with Red Hat, then we'll start thinking about gameplay.
14:27:59 < oddshocks> 1. If their intention is to teach open source, that's a
                      smaller project, or a smaller part of our project, perhaps
                      part of the tutorial levels, but it gets clunky
14:28:07 < oddshocks> and those two already know open source stuff will be bored
14:28:17 < oddshocks> So we have an issue with the variability of our player base
14:28:42 < oddshocks> So, SJ is hoping to get from Red Hat: Priorities. We need to
                      know what they care about most
14:28:51 < oddshocks> if they're really set on a "hackable" world, then it's not
                      an RPG
14:29:08 < oddshocks> you can give players more powers for being better
                      contributors, but you can't have an RPG that's hackable, or
                      everything breaks
14:29:30 < oddshocks> [[ajman is saying you'd have to get an instance, everyone
                      agrees]]
14:30:49 < francis-game> what if we or the developers purposefully introduce
                         inefficiencies into the game engine
14:31:01 < francis-game> the hacking part would be correcting these inefficiencies
                         to make their charatcer run better
14:31:30 < francis-game> example you have spell A that does something and has a
                         complicated loop system to calculate its damage
14:31:41 < francis-game> the hacking component would be the optimization of this
                         loop
14:31:44 < oddshocks> [[We're talking about what interaction has been had with Red
                      Hat. Aparently there have been some mis-sending of
                      information, SJ did not mean to really bring out much about
                      gameplay and start discussion about that. He wants to focus
                      on this research and getting prepared to make a prototype]]
14:31:57 < francis-game> ah i see
14:33:24 < oddshocks> SJ says to you: "Francis, you can back me up on this or not,
                      but there was a time in EVE where leveling up was based
                      largely on how much time you spent in the game. Mostly about
                      how long you were in a certain class or something?"
14:33:45 < oddshocks> francis-game: as far as the hacking part goes, it looks like
                      they don't want to focus too much on that right now
14:33:52 < francis-game> it still is
14:34:02 < francis-game> the game is classless, you get to choose what skills you
                         want to train
14:34:04 < oddshocks> They said "okay, gotcha"
14:34:27 < francis-game> at character creation you could choose a prebuilt set of
                         skills but really all it did was to give new pilots a
                         starting point and to add some flavor to the world
14:34:49 < oddshocks> "Yup." "Okay."
14:35:13 < oddshocks> [[They're talking about montization and profit a little]]
14:35:40 < oddshocks> SJ says he thinks that's what he's got for now. That's what
                      the next couple of weeks look like.
14:35:58 < oddshocks> ajman is bringing up ways to hook in out-of-game stuff,
                      ideas we might be able to throw at Red Hat
14:36:09 < oddshocks> give them some ideas about how they can hook in, say
                      Coderwall
14:36:18 < oddshocks> SJ says that's for after we come back next week.
14:36:30 < francis-game> there would need to be some kind of convenient plugin to
                         identify users and link them with their fedorarpg account
14:36:41 < oddshocks> SJ wants to avoid throwing gameplay ideas at them for now
14:37:01 < oddshocks> "Yes, absolutely."
14:37:11 < oddshocks> "There are already a number of badging systems out there"
14:37:17 < oddshocks> "that look at things like your Git repo and other things"
14:37:31 < oddshocks> Remy: "Might just be OpenID, and you can use the fedora
                      account system to get into it"
14:37:40 < oddshocks> SJ: "Our job is picking what we want to use for that
14:37:41 < oddshocks> "
14:37:50 < oddshocks> This is something we'd look at eventually
14:38:09 < oddshocks> SJ suggests everyone keeps a scratch file of ideas that you
                      have now, so that we can bring them up when the time comes
14:38:24 < oddshocks> Remy has one for the scratch file: "There's a game called
                      Distro Tycoon. That's all I'm going to say."
14:38:29 < oddshocks> [[SJ asked for more]]
14:39:00 < oddshocks> Remy says, "You get to make decisions about the distro, etc.
                      Nate knows more about it. Nate has a copy, too.
14:39:21 < oddshocks> [[They have added that to their list of games to look at]]
14:40:15 < oddshocks> SJ: "Anybody have any questions?"
14:40:22 < oddshocks> francis-game: any questions/comments?
14:41:22 < francis-game> no i'm fine
14:41:26 < oddshocks> [[The discussion is pretty much over. Just small talk and
                      minor points about the research fellowship.]]
14:41:29 < oddshocks> Okay, cool.
14:42:13 < ajman> alright guys let's figure out whose doing what
14:42:27 < ajman> determine by question #
14:42:35 < oddshocks> Okay, well I figure we take whatever we worked on most..
14:42:48 < oddshocks> so for me that'd be UGC. I can cover the UGC section and the
                      implications of that
14:42:51 < ajman> letter
14:42:55 < oddshocks> right, sorry
14:42:56 < oddshocks> uhgm
14:43:41 < oddshocks> Okay, so I am taking B and C then
14:44:07 < ajman> what about you francis?
14:45:41 < francis-game> im still working on A
14:45:50 < francis-game> guess it's essay writing time
14:46:18 < francis-game> i think we should label the sections by the letters for
                         easy perusal maybe?
14:47:52 < oddshocks> francis-game: a worthy idea, however I have mixed some
                      letters.
14:48:06 < oddshocks> for instance, B and C are basically the same section
14:48:35 < oddshocks> francis-game: So are you going to take charge of A then?
14:48:56 < francis-game> yeah, i guess
14:48:58 < oddshocks> Cool.
14:51:52 < oddshocks> Sent out invitations to scratch doc. Make sure you get in on
                      that.
14:52:03 < oddshocks> For the record, Tim is taking F.
14:52:15 < oddshocks> I'm making another doc for the writeups
14:57:45 < oddshocks> Sent out invitations to essay doc.
14:58:19 < oddshocks> Fair warning: I may have sent one email to one of your
                      addresses and the second invite to another. Generally I
                      treid to use non-rit accounts when available, but if you're
                      missing an invite, check your other inbox.
14:58:27 < francis-game> i don't think the scratch doc is shared
14:58:41 < francis-game> at least, I can't edit it
14:59:03 < oddshocks> francis-game: i sent an invite to your other account just now
14:59:10 < oddshocks> francis-game: originally i sent the invite to your RIT
                      account
14:59:12 < francis-game> okay
14:59:29 < oddshocks> francis-game: can you edit now?
14:59:38 < francis-game> got it yes
14:59:42 < oddshocks> rockin'.
	Any questions about this interaction, or any requests for clarification can be directed to oddshocks.

	14:13:29 < oddshocks> I am about to caption stuff that SJ says
	14:13:37 < francis-game> okay
	14:13:37 < oddshocks> as per his request
	14:13:45 < francis-game> thanks
	14:13:48 < oddshocks> No problem!
	14:14:08 < oddshocks> Good thing that we have a lot of activity in the Google Doc
	14:14:32 < oddshocks> At the moment, we have 5 hours worth of stubs. Links to shit
	people have written
	14:14:39 < oddshocks> That's the first baby step. Awesome.
	14:14:53 < oddshocks> He wants to be clear about what he means by a research report
	14:15:15 < oddshocks> A research paper should address his questions. Several pages
	per question
	14:15:38 < oddshocks> Think of every question as a detailed, documented, cited
	essay, all on its own
	14:15:54 < oddshocks> We write those, and to write those, everyone needs to READ
	what they put in the doc
	14:16:03 < oddshocks> There's a day or so left of "looking around"
	14:16:41 < oddshocks> Gamecareer.com has a lot of undergraduate and masters
	papers, probably some on some of the questions we have to
	answer
	14:16:57 < oddshocks> when you look at those papers, you will see that they have
	cited other papers that they have read/used
	14:17:17 < oddshocks> there should probably be 0.5-1 days more of finding stuff,
	then there should be reading, then there should be discussion
	14:17:47 < oddshocks> Either everyone reads everything (best option), or person X
	takes papers Y-Z, person J takes papers K-L, then present
	what you learned to the rest of the group
	14:18:52 < oddshocks> [[he's looking something up related to tomorrow]]
	14:19:55 < oddshocks> We're going to look over what we have, divide up the topic
	areas, and have presentations by people at 3 PM tomorrow
	14:20:07 < oddshocks> These presentations are on what you've found so far, and
	then we will discuss
	14:20:33 < oddshocks> Presentations should be...
	14:20:42 < oddshocks> [[ajman is asking how verbose the paper should be]]
	14:21:24 < oddshocks> We're looking at 2-3 pages for a topic, and we'll divide
	presentation time up... probably about 5 minutes per person
	14:22:11 < oddshocks> [[I just asked if the fossbot keeps IRC logs, turns out it
	only does if you tell it a meeting is started (just an
	unrelated question I asked)
	14:22:31 < francis-game> my client logs IRC
	14:22:34 < oddshocks> SJ is talking to Red Hat on Friday, so that's our first
	checkpoint so to speak
	14:22:48 < francis-game> and the user, haly, is my PC, it's logging everything
	24/7 basically
	14:22:52 < oddshocks> awesome. I just wanted to get the logs to Piper and Tim if
	they're not in channel right now
	14:23:08 < oddshocks> francis-game: oh, cool, a bouncer. right on. good to hear.
	14:23:35 < oddshocks> [[They're talking about the Zombies, Run! game we mentioned
	in the doc]]
	14:23:44 < oddshocks> [[Explaining the game to Remy]]
	14:25:11 < oddshocks> [[Discussion is currently on how we're going to be looking
	at a few games and perhaps playing some, such as Runescape
	and EVE to explore economies at two different ends of the
	spectrum]]
	14:25:41 < francis-game> i could give a quick rundown on eve if need be, i played
	it for a year or so
	14:25:42 < oddshocks> Things are starting to come together with the doc, tomorrow
	we'll have stronger footing after presentations and we can
	see where we are
	14:26:37 < oddshocks> they said "perfect", "excellent", you can be our EVE guy.
	that's for next week though
	14:26:49 < oddshocks> Next week is playing games, getting experience with games
	that are doing what we're looking for
	14:27:08 < oddshocks> When SJ gets back next week, he will have had a discussion
	with Red Hat, then we'll start thinking about gameplay.
	14:27:59 < oddshocks> 1. If their intention is to teach open source, that's a
	smaller project, or a smaller part of our project, perhaps
	part of the tutorial levels, but it gets clunky
	14:28:07 < oddshocks> and those two already know open source stuff will be bored
	14:28:17 < oddshocks> So we have an issue with the variability of our player base
	14:28:42 < oddshocks> So, SJ is hoping to get from Red Hat: Priorities. We need to
	know what they care about most
	14:28:51 < oddshocks> if they're really set on a "hackable" world, then it's not
	an RPG
	14:29:08 < oddshocks> you can give players more powers for being better
	contributors, but you can't have an RPG that's hackable, or
	everything breaks
	14:29:30 < oddshocks> [[ajman is saying you'd have to get an instance, everyone
	agrees]]
	14:30:49 < francis-game> what if we or the developers purposefully introduce
	inefficiencies into the game engine
	14:31:01 < francis-game> the hacking part would be correcting these inefficiencies
	to make their charatcer run better
	14:31:30 < francis-game> example you have spell A that does something and has a
	complicated loop system to calculate its damage
	14:31:41 < francis-game> the hacking component would be the optimization of this
	loop
	14:31:44 < oddshocks> [[We're talking about what interaction has been had with Red
	Hat. Aparently there have been some mis-sending of
	information, SJ did not mean to really bring out much about
	gameplay and start discussion about that. He wants to focus
	on this research and getting prepared to make a prototype]]
	14:31:57 < francis-game> ah i see
	14:33:24 < oddshocks> SJ says to you: "Francis, you can back me up on this or not,
	but there was a time in EVE where leveling up was based
	largely on how much time you spent in the game. Mostly about
	how long you were in a certain class or something?"
	14:33:45 < oddshocks> francis-game: as far as the hacking part goes, it looks like
	they don't want to focus too much on that right now
	14:33:52 < francis-game> it still is
	14:34:02 < francis-game> the game is classless, you get to choose what skills you
	want to train
	14:34:04 < oddshocks> They said "okay, gotcha"
	14:34:27 < francis-game> at character creation you could choose a prebuilt set of
	skills but really all it did was to give new pilots a
	starting point and to add some flavor to the world
	14:34:49 < oddshocks> "Yup." "Okay."
	14:35:13 < oddshocks> [[They're talking about montization and profit a little]]
	14:35:40 < oddshocks> SJ says he thinks that's what he's got for now. That's what
	the next couple of weeks look like.
	14:35:58 < oddshocks> ajman is bringing up ways to hook in out-of-game stuff,
	ideas we might be able to throw at Red Hat
	14:36:09 < oddshocks> give them some ideas about how they can hook in, say
	Coderwall
	14:36:18 < oddshocks> SJ says that's for after we come back next week.
	14:36:30 < francis-game> there would need to be some kind of convenient plugin to
	identify users and link them with their fedorarpg account
	14:36:41 < oddshocks> SJ wants to avoid throwing gameplay ideas at them for now
	14:37:01 < oddshocks> "Yes, absolutely."
	14:37:11 < oddshocks> "There are already a number of badging systems out there"
	14:37:17 < oddshocks> "that look at things like your Git repo and other things"
	14:37:31 < oddshocks> Remy: "Might just be OpenID, and you can use the fedora
	account system to get into it"
	14:37:40 < oddshocks> SJ: "Our job is picking what we want to use for that
	14:37:41 < oddshocks> "
	14:37:50 < oddshocks> This is something we'd look at eventually
	14:38:09 < oddshocks> SJ suggests everyone keeps a scratch file of ideas that you
	have now, so that we can bring them up when the time comes
	14:38:24 < oddshocks> Remy has one for the scratch file: "There's a game called
	Distro Tycoon. That's all I'm going to say."
	14:38:29 < oddshocks> [[SJ asked for more]]
	14:39:00 < oddshocks> Remy says, "You get to make decisions about the distro, etc.
	Nate knows more about it. Nate has a copy, too.
	14:39:21 < oddshocks> [[They have added that to their list of games to look at]]
	14:40:15 < oddshocks> SJ: "Anybody have any questions?"
	14:40:22 < oddshocks> francis-game: any questions/comments?
	14:41:22 < francis-game> no i'm fine
	14:41:26 < oddshocks> [[The discussion is pretty much over. Just small talk and
	minor points about the research fellowship.]]
	14:41:29 < oddshocks> Okay, cool.
	14:42:13 < ajman> alright guys let's figure out whose doing what
	14:42:27 < ajman> determine by question #
	14:42:35 < oddshocks> Okay, well I figure we take whatever we worked on most..
	14:42:48 < oddshocks> so for me that'd be UGC. I can cover the UGC section and the
	implications of that
	14:42:51 < ajman> letter
	14:42:55 < oddshocks> right, sorry
	14:42:56 < oddshocks> uhgm
	14:43:41 < oddshocks> Okay, so I am taking B and C then
	14:44:07 < ajman> what about you francis?
	14:45:41 < francis-game> im still working on A
	14:45:50 < francis-game> guess it's essay writing time
	14:46:18 < francis-game> i think we should label the sections by the letters for
	easy perusal maybe?
	14:47:52 < oddshocks> francis-game: a worthy idea, however I have mixed some
	letters.
	14:48:06 < oddshocks> for instance, B and C are basically the same section
	14:48:35 < oddshocks> francis-game: So are you going to take charge of A then?
	14:48:56 < francis-game> yeah, i guess
	14:48:58 < oddshocks> Cool.
	14:51:52 < oddshocks> Sent out invitations to scratch doc. Make sure you get in on
	that.
	14:52:03 < oddshocks> For the record, Tim is taking F.
	14:52:15 < oddshocks> I'm making another doc for the writeups
	14:57:45 < oddshocks> Sent out invitations to essay doc.
	14:58:19 < oddshocks> Fair warning: I may have sent one email to one of your
	addresses and the second invite to another. Generally I
	treid to use non-rit accounts when available, but if you're
	missing an invite, check your other inbox.
	14:58:27 < francis-game> i don't think the scratch doc is shared
	14:58:41 < francis-game> at least, I can't edit it
	14:59:03 < oddshocks> francis-game: i sent an invite to your other account just now
	14:59:10 < oddshocks> francis-game: originally i sent the invite to your RIT
	account
	14:59:12 < francis-game> okay
	14:59:29 < oddshocks> francis-game: can you edit now?
	14:59:38 < francis-game> got it yes
	14:59:42 < oddshocks> rockin'.