36C3 - Degrowth is coming - be ready to repair - english translation

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36C3 - Degrowth is coming - be ready to repair - english translation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hPXK7BCBnY 
(((((GOOGLE TRANSLATE (video transcript / subs / subtitles / CC's / closed captions))))))
((version 0.11 / December 31, 2019))
(punctuation and indentation added for enhanced readability, and some auto-translate detection failures corrected)
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[Video Description / Abstract (Google translate)]
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The discourse about "digitization" can do one thing above all: promise. Robots free us from tedious work, increases in efficiency take care of the protection of the environment and resources all by ourselves, and algorithms make everyday life easier. The lecture will show that these promises mainly play into the pocket of tech corporations and that we are heading towards ecological and social disasters thanks to the data-gathering (Indian) business models of digital capitalism.
Can the economy continue to grow thanks to more efficient technologies without consuming resources? Or do we not even notice in our lives, which are always full, that we are really running out of raw materials? If we very soon run out of material to build technology that fulfills all the promises - what do we do? Is the answer then repair, do it yourself, maybe even get creative?
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The lecture shows data and graphics on the current and forecast resource and energy consumption of digital technologies. The mechanism of the rebound effect can help to understand the complex consequences of current technical developments e.g. to understand in terms of growth.
Degrowth is a political movement of scientists and activists who fight against the increasing and growing constraints of modern societies. What arguments does the degrowth movement use to address growth from an ecological perspective? And what are the starting points for resource conservation in the tech and maker movement?
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[Video]
[0:00]
[Music]
[Intro]
With bits and trees and works in concept work new economy ev and the know us and she could Nicola von der 
 bits and bytes conference and got me since then they have been working very closely together and Danny köhler is a computer wants computer scientist and 
 together they now hold the talk large chamber ready to repair and tell us a little bit more about this the course movement and about the 
 future of technology and gadgets and how we do that with our ecological resources in harmony please bring one again 
 huge applause for the two and very much fun.
[Applause]
.
[Anja]
Yes, hello welcome.
Nice that there were so many people.
We were already introduced, but want us again briefly.
 but imagine, I'm Anja and that's exactly Nicola,
 and we both work on the concept of new work economy
 that is an association of here in Leipzig,
 sits and asking around the big so post growth and 
 socio-ecological transformation employed.
Our proposal is titled Degrowth is coming to repair 
 and what makes great is above all 
 criticism current paradigm of to pursue economic growth different perspectives 
We want to try that today the process of digitization transfer if you look at how it looks there. 
 and in the second part of the lecture 
 wisdom is not just about criticism but also about the proposal or that proposing alternatives. 
It will be Nico to tell you what is already, 
 for there may be starting points to have it translated into digital technology.
Yes, when we look at each other, we speak sometimes of digitization in this lecture,
 and want to say what we actually mean by that. 
We mean the process of digital data production and processing of more and more 
 living and social areas concerns and takes exactly as can be seen here. 
There is quite different areas that are now. 
Here are just a few examples. 
For example, affects our work entirely so there is always a lot more digitized or made automatically. 
It affects us at the individual level. 
Also on the point of interpersonal Communication, it is changing a lot,
 influences as we do, have a say in society, be used by certain tools, and it also has a strong impact the environment. 
We just now already mentioned and that is also moving, 
 but more and more awareness it should also go around this today. 
Areas stand for unfulfilled promises associated with digitization. 
[3:33]
To object to the environmental area, in the beginning there is often hope for digitization, 
 or the promise of connected digital technology, is that we can contribute to processes. 
So we materialize it with fewer resources, so to speak, can implement or less resources need to design processes.
[3:56]
A second promise is the digital one application to make our lives easier. 
So increase the comfort that we have we no longer have to somehow one map, your way search out but can easily start running. 
And there is an exactly one gets what exactly can tell us where we are have to walk long without us over it. 
[4:18]
Still have to think a third promise what in area of co-determination is perhaps lies that we are approaching. 
So the internet originally had the idea to enable an equal exchange between all people in the world,
 and there is also this exchange but we are also seeing a very strong concentration of power 
 and also a strong commercialization of the internet. 
[4:54]
And a fourth promise is that digitization or automation us relieved of tedious necessities. 
So the exemption from work, tedious work, the full automation of productions are there floating around. 
And there are 2 of them, co-pilots, depending on how you do that wants to describe or understand. 
Between so different visions of the future in connection with digitization itself, so move such a spectrum. 
Between on the one hand, digital capitalism on the one hand or even a surveillance capitalism and on the other, 
 fully automated luxury communism, where we stop nothing, do more yourself, you have a lot of time, and machines do all the work for us.
Lose weight in our view, both are problematic, because it's both with one high. 
So naturally in surveillance capitalism, represents a threat to human rights and is legally problematic for our democracy.  
And on the other side, both discipline utopias, with a high environmental and a high environmental degradation, high resource consumption only work. 
That means both promise material prosperity, and the question is, but whether we can even get there. 
Can use digital technology because we are actually already on that point, where we limit certain planetary boundaries have passed. 
And many people got stuck in the middle of the climate crisis. 
That material prosperity, in to the extent we do in the global north, enjoy or have not been possible.
And before long, not for the future either. 
[6:56]
So to speak, it is possible there is now the Degrowth perspective into the game. 
Degrowth criticized growth as I said at the beginning. 
On the one hand, if we would hold onto this growth paradigm,
 and offers on the other hand, alternatives. And makes alternative suggestions like us beyond growth constraint,
 and productive may actually have to could have a freer life, a self-determined life. Our lives and natural resources 
 receive can achieve global justice. And yes maybe more time or have time prosperity in our life. 
Now I want to briefly say what Degrowth is. 
It's that for one transformation phase to form the 
 economic and social self-organization, in which the wellbeing of everyone, and it's in the center and the ecological basis of life.
[7:57]
Being held, this concludes a basic one, change everyday practice of everyday practice in handling with each other 
 and a comprehensive cultural change, as well as one overcoming the capitalist way of production, 
 with their growth constraining competition and profit. 
So here we see in this definition, different points, very important.
And that actually unites everyone on currents within this. 
This is the course, 
 there is preservation of the ecological basis of life, 
 as well as the changes from our everyday practice, 
 and overcoming of capitalist mode of production. 
[8:37] 
The Degrowth movement has its beginnings so in the seventies, where there was one first growth critical movement,
 under the name de croissance, in France, a snail, has it as a symbol. Lost - here I think one has snail. 
And there were important triggers in 1972, appear the correct working forms the limits of growth of the very strongly hit, 
 has the special thing about the big is that, it's not just not alone scientific discourse, is at the same time, 
 a scientific and sociopolitical discourse of the equally strong activists has elements and trains. 
[9:26] 
So who is actually doing it? 
Since 2008 there has been in the two-year 
International Degrowth conferences, 
 where on the subject is exchanged, and the movements meet. In 2008 it started in Paris with 140 participants.
In 2014 there was the first gores conference in the 
German-speaking area here in 
Leipzig, and there were already about 3,000 participating. 
It also has the beginning, or that just refreshed, this growth critical debate - also in the 
German-speaking countries - strengthened again to lead and this the district conference has, among other things, 
 the concept of a new green economy with organized and a big one part of other volunteers. 
Just what I have already said, that it is not like,
 there is only one criticism of the existing systems, 
 but also suggestions be discussed, and worked out,
 and there is also a concrete vision of the concept of the concrete utopia in the price movement, 
 where really strategic trying to see what are models or who could be with each other, look social together in the future. 
 where it's a good one, there is life for everyone various. 
I had already said there are different currents in the goals discourse, 
That means it is a collective term. 
Also to be understood, for these different currents, so it if, 
I give that up, I'll go right away. 
[11:10]
One overlaps today sometimes with criticism. 
Such as the example of a feminist criticism of economic growth.
There is an efficiency, strong sufficiency oriented currents, of the Degrowth debate. 
There is a very well-known representative, Niko Paech. 
Maybe many of them have heard, the growth fits well works,
 and have the grasp maybe heard some, 
 and Degrowth and post-growth, can actually largely synonymous be used the big. 
It is the international concept,
 and post-growth it will stop in German-speaking countries but also uses,
 and closes them international Degrowth perspective,
 and then there are other countries, 
 again own terms, as before initially said, in France, croissants, or in Italy, the loans. 
So there are different ones.
Understand again which one language space and criticism form the so to speak,
 under the roof of the price movements are accommodated different,
 and fundamental to this all is actually an ecological criticism, of the existing, our existing economic system.
 and now, in the following, I want to try five different criticisms. 
[12:36]
From discourse to take up the criticism, so to speak 
 the paradigm of economic growth practice,
 and that towards digitalization transfer, that's not all, so to speak, 
 just a part of it,
 and as I said,
 ecological criticism is fundamental.
 and yes, it also creates character,
 general criticism for the movement,
 economic growth is that this human livelihoods destroyed
 and not be environmentally sustainable so can't be infinite 
 growth on a finite planet to have there is no second planet if there is maybe practical
 and transferred 
 that often means digitalization yes with technology or with a technology optimistic. 
 look at that understanding goes hand in hand with us of technologies growth and environment.
 consumers can thus couple that we by developing better technology use less resources.
 and therefore, to solve the problem, unfortunately that won't work.
[13:40] 
Later again, what to say, because it needs a lot of resources alone, 
 all the digital devices alone we all use in our everyday life to manufacture,
 and use it naturally also needs energy. 
This graphic often shows for the manufacture of electronic devices used raw materials.
 and the color-coded ones, the where is a classification.
So to speak that there is conflict, that it is, conflict with material minerals, 
 materials are rare earths, or not conflicting materials though other worrying substances. 
Raw material, mining concerns raw materials,
 and energy is not a negotiable limit 
 we only finally have many of them,
 even if now people think okay, we but have, renewable energies really great, they are almost infinite 
 this is also not the case, because we need yes, the sun shines only six, there are no hours of wind a day either,
 always and we also need resources,
 in order to manufacture the systems, at all with which this energy is obtained, can this slide this map.
 and elementary system here, people quite well, over to another currents in the discourse of one growth criticism,
 that is more like that in  prescribe global justice, leaves where it comes, to exception criticism. 
[15:14]
Existing system from a south north so perspective is from a global perspective.
Perspective for economic growth, or she says that economic growth in the countries of the global north 
 generally with one peripheral status of the countries of the global south,
 and the are used as dependent raw material suppliers used,
 and as for the supply of cheap labor exploited,
 and that can actually be done one to one, on the manufacturing process, digital transfer technology. 
[15:54]
So we have, one environmentally destructive raw material extraction in the global south, 
 often has to much more rock to be mined around to get the raw materials, so to speak. 
We ultimately broke it there, so it's also in other peripheries. 
There was also mining, or mining in the ore mountains. 
There is still mining, and that is exactly what everything must always know, be mined a lot, that leads to environmental destruction.
And not just that working conditions or the raw material extraction.
It is not just about the environment destroy but also harmful to health, and sometimes even, so life is a risk for that.
The workers live there work, so to speak, twice problematic not only ecologically but also socially.
[16:48] 
If we look at the other side, that we are now more likely to manufacture,
 even if we look at what actually happened with electronic waste, 
 that from our devices arises, if then it often ends up in the global south
 and the largest per capita, 
 are the cause of electrical scrap all countries of the global north.
And so here we see we see that the end of the life cycle, so to speak 
 again leads us to the global south, 
 produces about 4500 times a year the weight of the Eiffel tower electronic waste.
 and a lot about a lot of,
 which it is not clear where it is actually going come,
 or what ways it takes because recycling rates are still very high are low, 
 in addition to these production and disposal,
 there are also aspects of using the unequal distribution or one unjust distribution 
 under the keyword digital divide is discussed 
 you can see them in the global north devices with internet connection in 2014 the graphics
 and that has certainly changed, must have changed in the last five years, 
 but there is definitely one strong imbalance here too between global north and south 
 both are about global justice from both ecological
 and social level
 and that it is in production
 and disposal but also the use of 
 digital technology actually now far from being given 
[Music]
[18:32]
A third strand of criticism, or one third flow from which the price movement,
 is a feminist criticism also on economic growth or on growth regime,
 that says that, previous growth regime, on one devaluation,
 and exploitation of reproduction work, that it's something like that.
Care education, housework are the most female connoted and common. 
Of course not always by women growth benefits, so thesis because of.  
Because wage labor, so to speak, made possible, must be, 
 and a lot in the background, invisible activities happen so to speak, 
 growth benefits from unequal gender relationships, and always brings new ones. 
Emerges as reproducing when one that now transfers to digital technology 
 then we also see that this is efficiency
 and production logical actually in digital update technology from different 
 establish or discriminate against get on through this way by prescribing efficiency
 and production of digital technology manifested
 and also knows software development, still a male dominates the field, is then more quickly stereotyped
 and prejudices in algorithms or software also steady.
 and therefore, also they may not reproduce at all more where the data may already be 
 it is a completely different one, so to speak from existing data sets
 and because there is a person behind every code reproduce 2014 were in 
Germany, just under a fifth, not even a fifth of that employed in occupations of the information,
 and communication technology.
[20:34] 
Women, here you can also see a strong one imbalance,
 and cause it digital services when we do us in terms of platforms, like Helbling or so 
 look lead to one outsourcing and precarization of care work, maybe the peat fire was not paid.
So is Helbling a platform where you can, for example, cleaning staff or something, 
 for the period of two hours, can organize you pay,
 and the others just like that reproductive work decrease,
 and that is ultimately only one outsourcing,
 and precarization because, 
 it also with a fixed employment relationship that means there it wears it, so to speak. 
[21:19] 
Problem, actually a fourth point, or a fourth current, 
 is the critical of capitalism, that swings actually a bit everywhere,
 with and explicit, is the criticism of, that growth, on capitalist exploitation, accumulation is based,
 and therefore not understood independently of these, or can be changed,
 and that's why the view that an emancipatory, the growth society a post. 
[21:50] 
We must and will be capitalist us. 
The digital one, then look at capitalism.
Here too a high concentration of power and the formation of monopolies.
Diversity on the internet, so to speak, is getting lower.
I think of 50 or 100 most visited websites in internet, is Wikipedia the only one non-commercial.
 and that this accumulation, and this concentration, 
 we see here not only in the capital but also with the data,
 and it depends,
 hold tight in digital capitalism together, 
 that means we have new combinations of data. 
[22:37] 
There are also these sayings, this statement, that data is the new oil.
And here too, it can be said, that digital capitalism existing inequalities,
 and exploitation patterns intensifies, instead of lifting them up.
[23:01]
And in last point, I made here, from the different currents of criticism.
 want to do is, or want to mention it, 
 the cultural criticism that deals with alienation process,
 and increase logical concerns people have internalized,
 and looks like people of increasing slogan, 
 or of optimization logic, and with that too.
So growth drivers are becoming more and more, 
 or more and more productive,
 and always want to do everything faster, digital actually. 
 do this technologies also contribute by,
 for example, in relation to work, a boundary between work.
 and contribute leisure time, 
 so it's cool that we with the help of digital technology home, 
 being able to do office, 
 but that also helps to a boundary, as I said, between work and leisure at, 
 or we have a much higher density of information,
 and also a communication density, than us in analog times had it too,
 must challenge this information, you first process all,
[24:05] 
And that was already part of this feminist criticism.
 digital technology has too. 
Promotes that this increase slogan on more and more areas of life,
 transferred as now, for example, at this example with Helbling platform,
 where areas of life did not exist before, somehow with profit, or something, connection via save that now once. 
Or why does that happen, or why is there such an independent growth, 
 or why can digitalization as it is now being operated, maybe also contribute to it. 
Different effects mechanisms, I am going to explain to you briefly, three, 
 of the rebound effect, decoupling, and the network effect.
 and I want to be brief explain what that is, and what it means, is all about,
 and how it works, because it is definitely for analysis that's good to know,
 and in the back of your mind to have.
Probably, have a rebound effect, so many have heard. 
A rebound, the effect, 
 is actually we have one efficiency increase in any technology or a device,
 and this means less energy,
 and we save the energy, 
 we save So don't end up consuming less, but so to speak,
 more consumption caught up,
 and in the end,
 we may even consume more or just as much.
 and that gives Webber.
 and effects at different levels.
 so there is direct rebound effect, indirect, and macroeconomic effects.
 the direct ones are an increased demand after the same well, so when I go to example, 
 you now have a lamp much less electricity consumed by an hour, then the lamp will burn two hours because I'm less for it pay, 
 because I saved energy so to speak, the demand is more, demand for the same good.
Indirect effects, are such effects, like if I go through that now the lamps burn an hour less,
 save money, so far maybe, not a good example. 
 or if I have a car, what less I also use up fuel, and save money by saving energy,
 and from this I can also use money otherwise consume, for example on vacation to fly, 
 and that would be an example of one indirect rebound effect.
And macroeconomic effects, are such effects, that arise from the fact that one person saves energy,
 and the energy, but then as an additional offer, nevertheless, there is something on the market. 
The price, in turn, is lower than that stimulated demand, 
 and then someone other, because it's a lower price, there consumes that again, 
 that would be the macro economic effect, so to speak. 
 and that's what happens with digital technology software, like it - yes. 
We have constant increases in efficiency,
 computing power is becoming more and more efficient,
 and still we count more and more,
 that is a rebound effect,
Or streaming is another good thing example, we no longer have to go anywhere,
 go there not to get us DVD, but it is very simple, we need Less input from us, so to speak. 
 less performance to achieve the goal, get to watch a movie and that's why we always consume are more. 
[27:45]
The second mechanism, I mentioned that at the beginning, 
I have the decoupling explained. 
The idea behind, that is in coupling, the economy continues to grow, without it, resource consumption is increasing.
And there is a relative coupling, and an absolute decoupling, 
 is not that important now, but what I do at the beginning said that, 
 digitization is often associated, with it that's one of them, materialization could contribute, 
 but what is often forgotten is yes the material basis the digital one devices,
 and also the entire infrastructure which is already behind it. 
Therefore who is a cloud, that therapy there is no computer, so to speak.
 no digital service without one infrastructures of material infrastructure behind it.
And the third is the network effect.
The network effect describes how the benefits from one product for one. 
So consumers change me, for example, the number of consumers who percentages of other consumers of this product increases,
 so when I go to, I have an example of a telephone,
 a very small benefit of it if it is just another person,
 also a phone has three other people, not many more people can make calls 
 call already, and if a lot I have, the biggest human phone take advantage of it.
 that's what something on hand is that in platforms? 
 with digital platforms exactly, that the effect is that it takes place, platform is the more successful, 
 the more therefore users have, them platform also an interest in it to have as many users as possible.
 and that's why So monopolies form. Digital monopolies like Amazon or Facebook or Whatsapp. 
The more other people have that the more I have that to use, 
 but of course that also has downside,  
 is not only positive, that it as I said, leads to the formation of a monopoly and 
 thus also making alternatives more difficult. 
It's not easy to say. 
 (Hey now I'm setting up myself now)
If I was a social network, for that, a certain number of users in hamm has to be. 
 attractive at all that is, there are relatively high entry costs associated with it,
 and how maybe despite this blockade to that, has the net effect for alternative construction alternatives. 
 Nico is telling you now. 
 Thanks too.
[30:30]
[NICOLAS]
 (Yes, exactly, it goes on.)
And we are then at this point where we have one, seen a little bit, 
 something belongs to that stood the thing is
 and does not see so that's a bit problematic
 and we can see that we are finally we keep driving towards the abyss 
 and that little bit of everything already 
 that a well-known graphic is one good training 
 that they are just like that for 59 years 100
 and you can see that the years that the higher temperatures again and again occur more often
So that's just warming up the earth,
 and that's exactly what is fueled by the mechanisms described by Anja
 and we have the problem that that obviously goes in this direction 
 and that we before this contradict on an economic side, founding is confused, to save growth 
 to save economy, or maybe create again, where the when she is no longer there she is our side,
 have another because simply aim our ecological save livelihood.
 and that doesn't really fit together that explained one.
 and it did that problem, that there is basic light, 
 gives a problem with our concept of progress that we often talk about, 
 so more and better,
 and so in one,
 it's just your target has so much more productions, so much more efficiency,
 and connected reforms broken, still more production again,
 and that we keep going into this problem, 
 go exactly that is that location where you say well, 
 because in the big comes anyway, at some point there will be no more resources. 
So sometime over with oil, with coal, rare earth raw materials we need for smartphones.
 and so there maybe there is no more or too little,
 and is too complicated to get, 
 so go in a direction where there are obviously no future-proof ways, that to drive, in the long term.
 and that would be it worst big problems, that would be something happens when we do nothing,
 and this problems come to us there is the other away,
 and that is somehow what the big ones bring before this idea,
 that this can also be a decision because this is the big relief 
 or a GDR post factum society is something we just do ourselves 
 can choose and then that's for a rational finally 
 decide a little is more rational than the usual rational 
 decisions in capitalism like that profit-oriented, 
 because the eyes with includes political issues, for are of course, very important to us 
 and that just means we want one new design of our whole life available,
 economy, but that meanwhile, influencing how we live, 
 and you can see a little bit here, this idea that, in a simple example, so mobility, 
 because then you can also try the car, so that be,
 rescue car with the curve up, more car, more speed, and all that, 
 and more resource consumption,
 or other technologies use, for example, 
 bike, in so is a comparison. 
[34:20]
Meanwhile, a car and bike something, but of course,
 what is more sustainable for digital technology,
 that's a bit more complicated,
 and you have to try to look at what are the criteria we can have,
 and what tools, do we have, but need or not.
[34:41]
 and this question of criteria, that will us that decide,
 what we want to do next,
 and that's why Degrowth often has it,
 discusses what a good life looks like could,
 and not have a good life for everyone,
 and first of all is such a picture always funny closer to such a good life,
 for all the "ecos", they are happy, is on a climate camp fresh air.
 and as well as great but maybe that's not really utopia for everyone.
 and that means this question of a good one, 
 life depending on your taste.
 and that must also be completely free if they were.
 but you have to realize, that that is about a good life for all. 
 of that it says it must be designed fairly.
 and that means that I'm not that horny. 
 live for a few, because we're just for uniform acquisitions,
 and these ask, if it's of course difficult, 
 because that means we need other principles
 and just this percentage, 
 for example sufficiency.
 such an idea well cozy don't always.
 need more goods or me do not need, 
 a car I like to share with others, etc.
 and therefore flaunt a conscious decision what I think is a good life yes. 
Also not at the expense of others.
 and because of what I do or not do,
 and is also on a larger stage,
 not just an individual question 
 but a big question of design, 
 that of our economy for digital tools we use now,
 quite want that, that has a connection, 
 that means maybe we should go there, 
 set something else like deceleration. 
 maybe a little bit again be communicated more slowly, 
 because that, yes practically so happy to be super fast signal so communicate with people,
 though that needs a large infrastructure. 
And maybe the easier one, to design infrastructures sustainably, are the slow ones. 
The slow communication enables e-mails, for example, 
 are always actually right now pretty quickly,
 but you can exactly, that would be a little bit slower also, 
 okay, and I would be happy, 
 maybe I would read e-mails every day.
So there are advantages too so that 
I can put them in one balancing data economy important keyword 
 because producing fewer beds means ever more again less power consumption 
 less need the levels for infrastructures use
 and that's a good one, anyway, idea for data protection reasons, that is, 
That can also be shared with others criteria that we have for ourselves.
So the question is one can discuss - "
So together what is a good life for everyone?"
 and then the question is like us get there,
 and what that means, because glass, come there the fear.
 that that means we have to do without and then it gets complicated. 
Discussion was like saying okay I should have like this
 and that is apparently not possible.
And of course that has to be the case. 
One take place in a dialogue, these decisions are what I like. 
I might have to watch that has and wants consequences for others 
this question means that I will have to do without here and there 
is that I liked you have to realize that that's actually it a question of justice, that,  
[38:41]
So it's actually logical if you say there are such planetary boundaries.
That will actually only be The logical consequence of redistribution is,
 in one limited system, if you only have still these resources,
 and we want that that is justified then, 
 that doesn't have to mean that they just have cubes. 
We have one, have a little less, 
 but for that other people who are just not in that beautiful conditions, actually live more.
To have exactly as money in the end strength aspect,
 and around the question of share,
 and there is the style of sharing, 
 of course something you can think of that works very well with me. 
The data was seen, digitally with software, so you can share very easily 
 but it's important to watch at what ecological cost, can one because you can have files, 
 because there are yes she said this to me. 
 infrastructure this material infrastructure
 and energy promotion therefore raw material consumption we have to decide what we want. 
 want to share?
 and how?
 and exactly, What is the cost of sharing? It's actually a complicated one to ask but then you can see what can 
 you do it in everyday life,
 and what we do names with our technology the us. 
Maybe this helps this to make decisions, and to give,
 there is a very important aspect, free of repair, or above all, 
 longevity from the start, that the things we use,
 maybe last longer than a few months or years or so,
 and there you wonder, well I did that was used to be better or so it was,
So there used to be a child under conditions where there may have been less resources that was necessary to fix either way ,
 to be able to but with technology that in which is simple anyway it is easier work around hurdles hammer in workshop,
 there are no security updates,
 and that it's a little easier to bargain everything in smartphone.
 maybe not like that anymore is useful because there is none 
 security update well,
 and I have no access I can't keep it because it's all such a big blog.
 and that there in so complicated with,
 complicated technology also come like that big problems in terms of repair or how long can you use it,
 and there it is important at this celebration,
 always repair hardware,
 and to think software together because for example software there is software license that is this mechanism,
 because if there are no updates more if you don't have that anymore is useful on some hardware then this hardware is no good.
How broken.
 and yes, he has here again to fix matches,
 there can be an approach.
I have my own software for this type,
 are no longer so exactly what is officially supported,
 important to think that together
 and if you look a little bit,
Modularity is quite a thing, 
 important principle,
 and that's the way it is.
An important principle, in software, you already know that, but that's it for repair service.
Find important cities, that is it, opposite of what you can do with smartphone.
Now we know where we can go people, better technology to ours 
[42:34]
Orientate to meet needs,
 and if we want this modularity then, comes a question,
 from standards, 
 promote the Vienna model. 
Then we need clear announce how does which technology work,
 then of course software must be open source but should actually be more than that, 
 also become hardware open source.
 and complicated questions such as the data that he is there bit 1 a complicated question. 
 pressure for transparency, versus data protection problems, so which data, but they could be made. maybe not my personal data,
 rather not the data of corporations, then maybe that's more important. 
There comes this question from standardization of technology from process
 and so on
 and that is important
 and is also important because standard are also necessary to complex tackling problems 
 as well as simplicity use hardware and software 
 who can make sure that they ecological costs of the collection costs don't stay happy so high. 
The point here is the question of which one, away with technology at all we use.
 and is just so super high tech kilogram that I have it brand new.
 and that makes a lot of people say that, 
 but actually there are other forms of technology that is also behind the form
 and what are they?
 whole term I sometimes say everyday also. 
 because there are actually quite a few devices that we could now use but no longer use. 
 because there is no more software for it 
 but for it there are enough people to become hackers old devices where we put them somewhere get
 and develop software 
 this is exactly the right approach where you can use something further who used resources like that
 and can continue to be used 
 that actually started in the smaller areas as well as lungs support for operating systems for example
 and you always have to 
 covers do between what they do what we want so what new features
 and cool things we want
 and what is actually sustainable
 and there is a point where you have to software
 and hardware together again think because then it won't separate is 
 because it is so different 
 not necessarily this question from ditech persistent great influence on one important question namely the question this technology
 and who develops it 
 technology spoken a year earlier by feminist criticism of capitalism
 and since that is an important point of from if for software and hardware developed
 and for when and where needed it will be such a democratization they better distributed that everyone can participate 
 that is of course not exact
 and mind-boggling to change them we have a few suggestions by being a bit 
 bring literature if you go far more to the large or fits growth want to read since this year a good one 
I find it very understandable introductory book of this first interesting maybe something like that things that micro told is one 
 book published by the foundation that means repairing the world that can you can also download it as a pdf simply through the publisher 
 exactly then two more books Toni Kroos once a collection of beliefs I already appeared in 2016 
 in any case exactly two three years 
 is older
 and there is still a book there are so different movements indigo range are on the move describes
 and portrays yes
 and what 
 now we have a lot of points too the Nico with such alternatives or as it could actually be different. 
So modularity or longevity 
 open interfaces are also parts the demands of the trees conference, that took place in November last year, and we were involved 
 and there are eleven demands believe I suggest or like what must happen in order to sustain. the 
So digital technology works rather than 
 tool for more sustainability too understand you can watch them online
 and also sign 
 so take it with you like a petition so you can all like to do that
 and we also have a small smi from concept work
 and are built in the 
 future cluster in the ccl down here you are welcome to come
 and continue discuss with us
 and always nice repair instead of new production 
 thank you for being there many there when it pleased us
 and that you listened so carefully
 and I think we still have time for now 
 - to ask questions.
.
[48:46]
[Music] [Applause] 
 yes thank you if you go now 
 want to do that quietly but otherwise Davidwache is still there for a moment 
 would be nice if there are still a few left not everyone is leaving now
 and ? put a microphone on German lecture German language microphone 3 was I think first we just start.
[49:13]
[Questions]
Hello thanks for a lecture. 
I have a question about that communicate slowly 
 because that is somehow a little bit not very much intuitive for me so I can do very well 
 understand when we talk about that we have less information about that send network for example that we not somehow four megabytes of JavaScript deliver with every mouse wherever we are want to read a few lines but for example the network itself or Communication is slower example if you somehow make calls wants on the internet or very many from those very dear services how chats looks about that built up that you can communicate instantly so you can do that very quickly can communicate so that's a problem or how I'm wrong about this now 
Roger that yes, as I said, a question of do not consider that it will take to stroke 
 to see beforehand what we will do can with the resources they will have but also data in the future 
For example, is a big question but this free of slowness 
 I think there was one yesterday day where there was a first example in 
 India I think that was where there was no network in some villages somebody drove like this with mother advice
 and simply has the wife of 
 so the mails collected for people
 and it was back where it was received pulled back
 and there somehow that carried on 
 that was a funny example of one adjustment if there is none infrastructure there was no way 
 maybe that will come then skin is ecological for ecological reasons to be provided completely, of course exactly but that that slow him down 
 maybe it's okay there yes thanks keep going nicely with microphone 2 Many thanks, so I have all of them I think ideas are great 
 for me it is the same in the company that will probably fail because of that to implement it 
 because it just doesn't is cost effective
 and now mine. 
 ask how can you make this tasty so to speak, that also with so what can flow into how one is selling, so to speak 
 now of course always a bit complicated but I would say big steps closer when this company for example, operated collectively 
 because people who work there they become crucial, for example maybe less happy I also want to work to produce 
 and so on that means if one criteria the company would be different from a bicycle must continue to make profit
 and continue 
 to grow of course that's the problem that how if you get to the point, you can improvement just say that's it 
 to practice in this way is not sustainable but at some point you have to have the big one ask questions
 and say yes priorities have to change 
 and yes I see difficult again is that it remains that we have to take care of it yes I don't know if there is 
 a clear path with small steps that really lead there at some point you have to redesign it thank you I also think that very much 
 difficult for guard microphone 3 after all so please you said on one we will have to do without
 and I think so 
 I just wonder the problems in described her first part for example this rebound effect or So the problem with the network effect 
I think I'm ready to give up but how can I be sure that then really waives what brings
 and not in another place again 
 is balanced so there is also exactly there in
Take this book for example Doris introductory week different strategies 
 which are described as we go there come 
 because they are one, so to speak to have the ideas
 and the other is like that then also concepts in the long term 
 secure so to speak ensure that for example not again be inserted capitalistically this is definitely the most important step
 and I think now I have holding a question by hand we can find him together how can I be sure that when doing without 
 you have that I think there
Of course, 
 because we have that now I already have that moral that certain somehow liberated if I 
 for example, sustainable consumption operate
 and that is then somehow throughout society regulations must give that that becomes 
 other people don't say anymore consume
 and I just think so with network effects, for example 
 because it was his question as well 
 maybe that can happen forming monopolies again 
 that is that what Nico would have said with such open ones interfaces that also part of the requirement of the relationship trees 
 if there would be open interfaces also just partly prevent that monopolies form 
 because everyone, so to speak, access 
 so then it doesn't matter if I'm at then maybe I can be Facebook from Facebook 
 also with someone then you communicate using Mastodon or Twitter
 and do you then that the interfaces are there.
So that would be a starting point against such a concentration of power again great 
Thank you we have microphone 2 
Hello Many thanks also for the nice lecture
 and the issue of questioning the 
 growth sometimes have to come from the pure bring out eco bubble a question I was last year at the to the trees conference
 and what's more common to me 
 it was brought up how are things now with this thought the very free
 and innovative for many rails how is it going 
 because now there are ideas like that 
 to put on again or otherwise to put on or something like that yet concrete ideas that I know of such a big conference again 
 to organize but we have each other as a carrier the name was freely chosen for this give
 and say all who want to with, so to speak, non-commercial 
 I am interested in such a big conference to put the legs that these thoughts further wearing are welcome 
So to do that if you are exactly people knows
 and if possible also from so different corners were back then yes, the ccc on board
 and the bnd 
 so two big ones so contrary aligned organization does that
 and there is such a single continuation such a one day in may this year 
 conference in Dresden so far to the tree was called
 and also to topics around digitalization sustainable escorted there are several 
Bar tables in different cities 
So in Berlin and in Dresden
 and in I heard Hanover yesterday also 
 and there is a mailing list on which to go can register
 and there is also one forum in which is discussed on these topics
 and I think there are even in the tcc a group that tries it, sustainability 
 more in the ttc too, bring also from topics just like the big conference so to speak 
 it is not clear yet that we find it generally desirable definitely its capacities maybe ask about this too 
Me a little note has a book participated that means what pointy trees connects I think or
 and that could you can also recommend it as a suggestion 
 and there you can already download as pdf from the publisher 
 perfect great we still have a question from microphone 2 
 exactly I have again there is a specific question of this kind management consulting 
 maybe already in the direction where you just people can get involved know
 and there is exactly on everyone case from the institute for ecological economic research in Berlin brochure called post-growth 
 pioneers are so small
 and portrayed medium-sized companies who explicitly say that they do not continue or don't want to grow much 
 premium cola is such a good one example of what we say so to speak, we do what we do
 and have no goal of expanding 
 that's very interesting 
 because so examples in there are something for you maybe. 
it's cool to do it again look so what are actually for motivation
 and maybe for reasoning strategies
 and there are So now it is known to one person to get again afterwards that I know 
 who works on the field
 and I think consulting has been great for a long time thanks again to Anja Hübner
 and Nicola Kino
 and still Lisa 
[Applause] [Music] 

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