Ken Williams interview transcript

view I'm your host Chris Pope and today
00:02
is jun 8 2012 and we are very very
00:08
pleased to announce word this is an
00:10
interview we're doing to raise money for
00:12
space venture at TG a qik com and I'd
00:17
like to bring to you guys none other
00:19
than the founder of syrah amongst many
00:22
other things ken williams can how's it
00:27
going oh it appears we've lost kin well
00:35
that's embarrassing hang on guys will
00:37
get Kim back he's in paris france by the
00:39
way here he comes so here we go none
00:44
other than Ken Williams himself can
00:47
how's it going hi Chris can you hear me
00:51
yes I can hear you can you hear me yep
00:54
yep it dumped me for a second there I
00:56
must not like me today it was our
00:58
perfect timing yeah it's weird I get
01:02
back in but how you doing I'm doing
01:04
fantastic man I'm doing I'm doing really
01:06
great and thank you so much for taking
01:09
the time to come on here and talk to me
01:11
I know the fans are really excited you
01:14
know to hear from you and you're in
01:16
Paris is that right yeah look at the
01:19
little power Wow yeah you guys did you
01:25
sell there is that it is how you got
01:27
there are you um flew there yeah we're
01:31
naughty we flew there this time but
01:33
we're circumnavigating our boat yeah I
01:37
got it around to Turkey and then we went
01:40
home for the offseason and flew back
01:44
well in fact run route to the boat to
01:46
kind of cruise around this summer okay
01:48
I'm not Turkey and Greece Wow yeah you
01:52
uh you've been doing a lot of boating
01:54
the last few years I hear that's kind of
01:57
what you've kind of taken up over the
01:59
years in retirement am i right yeah
02:02
worked a lot of years so now it's time
02:05
to relax have some fun yeah no doubt not
02:08
a doubt for sure well that's that's
02:10
really good news man well um you know I
02:13
I know you've been you've been asked
02:15
some of the same question so i apologize
02:16
if if i get repetitive but so years and
02:20
years ago you you and roberta started
02:24
the company that became sierra and was
02:28
an amazing industry achievement because
02:35
you guys kind of you change so many
02:39
different things in the gaming industry
02:40
from the music to the graphics of the
02:42
game play you kind of put pc gaming on
02:45
the map in general and so so here all
02:50
these years later you're still like
02:53
people are just chomping at the bit to
02:54
hear from you i mean i think our our our
02:57
chat room is growing a tremendous up
03:01
very every second and people are just
03:04
going nuts in the chat room right now
03:06
i'm watching the the text flop the
03:09
screen and in the fans out there if you
03:11
guys would do me the favor of saving the
03:13
chatroom of justin TV doesn't allow me
03:15
to do that but anyway really excited
03:18
thank you so much also for coming in and
03:20
hanging with us in the space quest 3
03:22
commentary the other day i'm sorry we
03:23
gave we gave you a hard time with not
03:26
knowing if it was really you it's not
03:28
the first time we've had somebody say
03:31
they were yeah ken williams to us I
03:33
favorite though is when we had got
03:35
emails and said I'm Ken Williams your
03:37
balls bitches oh holy man that was kind
03:44
of weird but I got somebody really you
03:47
you get a sponsor I was trying to think
03:49
how do I prove it's really neat I'm not
03:53
sure so I think start that's been
03:55
questioned pretty okay here's a bill as
03:58
like them I don't know yeah yeah what's
04:02
your social security number we should
04:05
have anybody say that oh that's great I
04:07
know that
04:09
there are really good really cool stuff
04:12
well um are you excited hear that Scott
04:15
marker back together yeah that kind of
04:19
company by surprise I Academy didn't
04:21
expect it after all these years but then
04:25
when a load did his Kickstarter and no
04:29
and on Jane Johnson did one I think
04:31
purse was successful kind of makes sense
04:33
that there's you know kind of a rebirth
04:36
of interest in some of the old games
04:38
this year it did and that's cool that's
04:42
uh that's just kind of kind of fun to
04:44
see it happening yeah well I'm glad to
04:47
see you're you're excited about it hey
04:50
by the way let's clarify something right
04:52
now we did not photoshopped that picture
04:55
of Roberta you sent that to us right
04:57
from the other day right yeah yeah that
05:01
was pretty unusual in that Roberta
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normally doesn't like to do that kind of
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stuff but she was just happy to be
05:08
helping us cotton mark yeah I did
05:11
Photoshop on the words because I tried
05:14
writing them first and it looked really
05:16
parable so then I I just took a blank
05:19
sheet of paper and how to hold it and
05:21
put on the birds but it was there and
05:23
that was live and kind of shot she did
05:25
that for South Park yeah and she did not
05:29
mark and it was shot with my iphone in
05:30
our living room very cool well that's
05:33
great she looks absolutely gorgeous by
05:35
the way she's that you can tell her
05:37
she's aged really well so I'm tell her
05:40
that she shall be happy I told her she
05:43
got a couple of comments and I said well
05:46
most people probably think we're dead by
05:47
now but obviously will stuff your son
05:51
not great that picture is really cool I
05:54
mean that was a we just had people
05:55
saying you know it looks like you guys
05:57
just made that yourself and I'll like
05:59
well we're gonna we're gonna solve this
06:00
in this problem right now you heard it
06:02
from the man himself so that's really
06:05
that's really cool that was passed
06:08
artifical part of the fun I've been
06:10
looking that when I when I got the kind
06:13
of the facebook link for all of this i
06:15
was looking to see what Scott mark look
06:17
like and you know Jane Jensen and
06:20
everybody else because Billy had I have
06:23
a
06:23
connected with any Sierra people in an
06:25
awful long time so basically that I
06:29
retired I kind of went off and did other
06:31
stuff yeah yeah this had been out of the
06:34
business oh yeah well you know sure
06:37
enough you like like you said you
06:39
deserve a law a nice long retirement and
06:42
not to reap some of the the fruits of
06:45
your labor there well um you've also
06:48
been a tremendous visionary man you've
06:50
named it just from the beginning and
06:52
scada said this many many times of how
06:55
you foresaw so many things I mean heck
06:57
after number one you did you did TSN the
07:00
imagination network which became I guess
07:02
the imagination and and I absolutely i
07:06
was a member of that absolutely loved it
07:07
always my biggest complaint was when I
07:09
would run out of time on the thing yeah
07:12
but um but you foresaw that and he did
07:15
that and and and then talk spot right
07:17
after um yeah right after you retired
07:21
and everything with Sierra I guess it
07:23
wasn't right after you retarded but it
07:24
was not too far after that you started
07:25
talks but I and I was like the first
07:27
time publicly that would I guess because
07:30
I was I just bored a little in that you
07:37
know it's hard to be moving that you
07:39
know 20 hours a day or something for 20
07:42
years and then all of a sudden them do
07:44
nothing you got to kind of do something
07:47
but also we travel so much I had to find
07:49
something i could do where i could be
07:50
moving around yeah I'd love to work on a
07:53
game or something but games are big
07:56
budget projects with a lot of people and
07:58
it's hard to do that and them and not
08:02
really commit yourself full time sure
08:04
yeah oh yeah a few times that God would
08:09
I drop back in and do games again but
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and I'd love to but it would really mean
08:14
a sitting still you know we're british
08:16
tended to say fight because i'm working
08:18
on a book but it's kinda thin where you
08:20
can work on when you get in the mood and
08:21
have some time whereas games are
08:23
full-time job oh yeah yeah sure enough
08:26
without a doubt and he definitely served
08:30
your time in the
08:31
in doing that and I think it's you know
08:34
it's great that the you I'm it was
08:37
that's funny now when I look back on it
08:39
I mean it seems like it at all to 15
08:41
minutes but it was 20 years oh yeah you
08:45
know I'm a lot of stress along the way
08:47
and and also a lot of fun we kind of
08:49
worked hard played hard it was a wild
08:52
time yeah i'll be the both of the
08:55
industry yeah everything was going well
08:58
it was a cool time to be associated with
09:01
the computer industry yeah yeah I'd
09:04
imagine so you know you were there in
09:06
the very beginning of the whole video
09:09
game rise especially in the PC world
09:11
really in general I mean you founded the
09:14
company in 77 is that right I think 79
09:19
79 yeah over and 96 and then stayed for
09:24
another couple of years with the new
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owners although almost from the moment i
09:30
sold the company i was pretty much
09:32
sidelined I know the new owners bought
09:35
us and a competitor at the same time and
09:38
I don't know it made it made it kind of
09:39
tough yeah I guess inside the
09:41
corporation that sort things out yet it
09:44
was still it was uh that was it was it
09:46
was fun and just working with guys like
09:49
Scott mark hello and everybody to maybe
09:53
it made it the kick cuz you know a lot
09:56
of my job was just wandered by the
09:58
screens to see what we were doing yeah
10:01
you know how can you walk down astral
10:04
chicken and not that bust up so it's
10:07
gotten mark I got that that kind of
10:09
habit of trying to surprise me with
10:12
funny stuff on scream and kind of
10:15
outrageous things and I never knew if
10:17
they were serious or just messing with
10:18
me yeah they certainly seem to have a
10:22
lot of fun and you know the players
10:24
enjoyed it like right now and I know you
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can't see but I've got that that's the
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picture of space quest 3 with with you
10:32
and the two guys from andromeda and
10:33
Roger will go up on the screen for the
10:35
chat room and that was just a brilliant
10:38
moment in video game history I think
10:41
seeing you
10:43
the owner of Sierra in the game and then
10:45
and then of course you know later in
10:47
space quest 3 when the two guys from
10:48
andromeda actually come and work for
10:50
Sarah that was brilliant so you know
10:53
very great stuff the beautiful red
10:55
building as they call it yeah I used to
10:59
fight against a lot of that stuff
11:01
because it would be so um inside humor
11:04
that Hollywood yeah we'd bust me up were
11:08
with us stuff you know kind of the real
11:09
hardcore fans but for a lot of people
11:12
they wouldn't get the joke because it's
11:13
a one who's Ken Williams sure who's you
11:15
know if it gets gets to be too much
11:17
inside humor but that they did a good
11:21
balance of it it would did you know if I
11:24
can leisure suit larry they'd always
11:25
kind of put me in there somewhere yeah
11:28
it's kind of fun now when I go back and
11:31
take a look at those games to see those
11:32
scenes yeah and ken allen actually I
11:36
don't remember face quote I stopped it I
11:39
have to look and see what that was yeah
11:41
yeah the very end of space coast three
11:43
ken allen actually uh you did music for
11:47
you was asking question the chat room
11:49
just now of SATA how are you able to
11:52
draw so much amazing talent 20 Kirsch
11:55
literally in the middle of nowhere the
11:59
on some ways it was easy because we had
12:04
such a good reputation that people would
12:07
go way out of their way to work for us
12:09
and in those days I had kind of a kind
12:14
of a strange attitude in that I wanted
12:17
Sierra to be different and to do things
12:20
that nobody else was doing I was kind of
12:23
worried that if we hire people that work
12:27
for competitors that suddenly you know
12:29
we'd be doing what competitors are doing
12:31
so I had kind of some crazy rules like
12:35
we wouldn't hire anybody did work for a
12:37
competitor more people that wanted to
12:39
work with us than them then we had jobs
12:41
for right so we were able to pretty
12:43
picky about who work with especially
12:45
toward the end I mean I'm expen of them
12:47
I don't know when you do enough great
12:50
things enough times and irrelevant
12:52
suddenly everybody wants to be there
12:54
yeah
12:55
it looked good on the resume and and yet
12:58
yeah I don't remember a lot of people
13:00
ever leaving Sierra to go to a
13:01
competitor in that when you're working
13:04
for somebody that's got you know a
13:06
really great reputation and great
13:09
distribution for the products too it'll
13:11
go to another company would be tough so
13:15
yeah it was good tighten it was a good
13:17
time to be working at CRM and we did do
13:20
a lot of pioneering things with I think
13:23
part of my style at the time was to want
13:27
to surprise people and I don't know I
13:32
remember wandering through development
13:33
and that you know they'd seen something
13:35
before then I didn't really want them
13:37
you know what we like to try to do
13:39
different things yeah yeah unpick people
13:42
who were into doing different things so
13:45
when I gave a fair amount of creative
13:47
freedom and yeah and just left people
13:52
own hire smart people leave him alone
13:54
and they did with even great things yeah
13:56
yeah sure enough yeah well you know you
13:58
definitely and definitely did that and
14:00
then also we've all I always thought it
14:02
was brilliant that you allowed the
14:05
developers like Scott and mark and al
14:07
and all them to have their names on the
14:10
boxes of the games which kind of allowed
14:14
them to stand out a bit and become sort
14:17
of in those days celebrities at least
14:20
two people growing up playing the games
14:22
like myself how did you make that
14:26
decision or did you just kind of follow
14:29
suit because you had done that with
14:30
Roberta's games or or what well it was
14:36
like you know I really think that
14:38
creative works now movies maybe
14:41
differently maybe today with such big
14:43
budgets it's a little different but in
14:45
those days the size of a project was
14:49
smaller and it was more like a book
14:53
where you know if you read a Stephen
14:55
King book or something it's the
14:58
personality the other that really comes
15:00
through in the product from you they
15:01
like that person you don't that that's
15:04
the person who's responsible for the
15:06
product when you get to you know
15:08
budget movie then all of a sudden
15:10
everything that's kind of muddied
15:12
together and it's not clear who's
15:13
responsible yeah and maybe the
15:16
industry's like that these days but in
15:18
those days I mean your game project with
15:20
small enough that we could have one
15:24
creative leader or two in the case of
15:26
the two guys and on the product really
15:30
represented their vision for what they
15:32
wanted out of the product and you know
15:35
if you thought they were funny then you
15:37
were going to like all of their products
15:38
and I could promote them and um it's
15:44
gone because yeah I think our authoring
15:46
language was hard a lot made is special
15:50
in that we've kind of created our own
15:53
programming language disoriented toward
15:56
the games and it well I don't know if
16:01
that somehow I guess normally especially
16:03
in those days there was so much wizardry
16:05
there's so much technical stuff you had
16:08
to go through in order to produce a game
16:10
the only things that people take for
16:13
granted these days like opening a window
16:15
or you know even put in a letter but in
16:17
a letter on the screen they're putting a
16:19
dot on the screen is it's fairly simple
16:22
in those days everything was pain
16:24
because it would know you know there was
16:26
hardly an operating system there to talk
16:28
to so you know what we did was try to
16:32
create something where we could or I
16:36
could take all the technical stuff out
16:37
of it as much as possible and bring the
16:40
creative people close and you know so
16:44
that somebody like you know marker Scott
16:46
had a clever idea then pretty quickly it
16:49
was up on screen people are enjoying it
16:51
and remove all of that technical
16:54
gibberish and then and it work I mean it
16:57
was it was kind of fun yeah and I'm not
17:02
sure it's going with that but I do i do
17:04
know that yeah no matter how good a book
17:08
is if you if you can't if there's not an
17:12
author to identify with or somebody's
17:14
because we're telling stories on the
17:16
computer and how can you tell stories
17:18
and not have an author I mean I can't
17:19
imagine buying a book where they don't
17:20
tell you the author was
17:22
yeah definitely well no I think that's
17:24
again I think that's absolutely
17:26
brilliant and I again that's part of the
17:29
reason why all the years later we're
17:32
able to move forward with Kickstarter's
17:34
and things like that with these guys and
17:35
their names because their names mid
17:38
something and so that was a brilliant
17:41
move I know that some of the other
17:43
companies out there in gaining had
17:46
issues with that they didn't want they
17:48
didn't want the creator's to have their
17:51
names on the box because they didn't
17:52
want them making a name for themselves
17:54
but I think what you did there was was
17:56
absolutely brilliant and candy remember
18:00
and you happen to remember the day or
18:03
how this all came about that Scott and
18:06
Mark first brought up space question
18:08
they've always told us they'd always
18:10
told the story of how they kind of of
18:13
kidnapped you into their office in order
18:16
to show you a example of space question
18:20
it was like four rooms do you happen to
18:22
remember that moment yeah vaguely I do
18:27
remember that you know it's uh yeah I
18:30
remember I'm trying to remember what
18:32
Scott was doing before space vessels I
18:35
must work harder yeah he was just
18:39
working on Black Cauldron yeah I
18:40
remember it's gotten mark talking to me
18:42
and people would always approached me
18:46
with an idea and I would almost always
18:48
say um you know show me because ten if
18:52
everybody's got an idea but only a few
18:54
people have the extra energy to put
18:57
something down on paper and build
18:59
something and get it under the screen
19:00
yeah I don't think that knew that they
19:03
were working on it you know this was
19:05
just something they kind of put their
19:06
heads together and did yeah I remember
19:10
there was no doubt from the moment I
19:12
thought that this was going to be a good
19:13
and then be popular but that's that's
19:19
great you I guess at that point you your
19:22
you can say you're honestly happy that
19:23
that you decided to let them move
19:26
forward with it right oh yeah yeah no we
19:29
sold a lot of copies and plus I mean it
19:32
was just a lot of fun it's the
19:36
remember a lot of problems with the
19:38
series I mean there were some surveys of
19:40
gains where well I don't know you just
19:44
had to fight to get him onto the market
19:46
and space press was always pretty easy I
19:48
mean it they had the audience they work
19:52
well together that it was just a great
19:55
series yeah yeah got my personal
19:58
favorites how yeah I don't know why I
20:00
there's there's categories of game that
20:04
I like in categories I don't and yeah I
20:07
tried not to let my personal prejudices
20:10
affect our business but you know even
20:12
Mike I remember at the time you know
20:15
like half life when I signed half life I
20:17
was not really a fan of that genre a
20:21
game but if you look at and say this is
20:22
going to be a hit and you know space
20:26
posters one where I looked at it and I
20:27
said you know this is something I would
20:29
want to play it seems fun yeah I'm it
20:32
worked out well yeah a lot of comedy and
20:34
run ya know they I think they they did a
20:37
great job with that and and again that's
20:40
another another brilliant move that you
20:43
that you made at bringing them in and
20:46
with King's Quest you had the the whole
20:48
medieval thing and Space Quest you had
20:50
the sci-fi thing you guys did police
20:53
quest which was a hit quest for glory so
20:55
many games and if i'm not mistaken a lot
20:59
of this began because roberta had had
21:03
been playing a game and she a text game
21:06
and she said I could do that and then
21:08
you you masterminded away with
21:11
vector-based graphics so that you could
21:14
store instructions to draw the graphics
21:18
as opposed to the graphics themselves
21:19
which is what kind of started a lot of
21:21
this is that right well that's true but
21:24
I know it's funny to think how
21:27
prehistoric everything was in those days
21:29
that you're even floppy disks i remember
21:33
the floppy disk only held a TK he was
21:36
you said i don't think people can even
21:39
envision how small that is nice day so
21:40
that's it's a ton jpg or something but
21:44
yeah that was an entire floppy disk so
21:47
when you're trying to produce to game
21:49
and that's how
21:49
got worse acid he's the mother of
21:51
invention yeah I want to do two graphics
21:55
and Roberta wanted to tell her story and
21:57
she kind of sketched it all out on a big
21:59
piece of paper and you know I kind of
22:02
looked at it and said wow there's like
22:04
100 locations and you want to do it all
22:06
with graphics and I get this little ATK
22:08
floppy disk how am I going to get there
22:09
from here and yeah that was kind of the
22:13
beginning but it started you know the
22:14
same way Scott marked it with her Sharon
22:17
or she took me to dinner and said you
22:20
know I've got this idea and as she had
22:23
pencil sketchy cousin kind of convinced
22:26
me it was fun and at the time I was
22:27
working on a Fortran compiler for the
22:31
for the Apple too yeah yeah I want to I
22:36
wanted to you know grow up become
22:38
microsoft I think I'm God tonight sorry
22:42
I said you know that looks a lot more
22:43
fun and so can you hear some work about
22:47
her game that I know yeah yeah I was
22:50
part of what was um good i remember in
22:53
those days that I used to a comparison a
22:56
lot to a bookstore and say even go into
22:59
the bookstore and there's all these
23:00
different categories and you know the
23:03
NFL presentan interest in something and
23:07
I looked for authors who were passionate
23:10
about a category and would have them
23:14
produce a product in that category and
23:16
so I would always consider bookstores
23:19
kind of my my market research is knowing
23:22
what people were interested in and yeah
23:26
and I knew that I personally was not
23:29
that I couldn't cover all the bases and
23:33
would look for people that could deliver
23:36
you know I don't know the really had a
23:38
sense of the category well that's great
23:42
yeah and and so the way I understand
23:45
sorry I mean you you you created mystery
23:49
house and then from there you guys had
23:52
people I guess your your brother if i'm
23:55
not mistaken with spreading the word
23:57
going to driving a different of
23:59
of radioshacks and things like that and
24:02
then you guys started getting mail
24:03
orders in like crazy is that right yeah
24:09
originally I we were doing Khloe a crazy
24:15
spin-off of the story was that we were
24:19
selling our own games and they weren't
24:22
Bettman computer stores in the States
24:24
armor there were only like eight
24:25
computer stores on the West code and I
24:28
was driving around happy to deliver the
24:30
product and then I said you know as long
24:32
as I'm going to stores might as well
24:34
carry a few other people's products i
24:36
started distributing for some other
24:38
software companies and that business the
24:42
distribution kind of took off so i sold
24:43
it took in mine and he turned it into a
24:47
company called soft sale which was i
24:50
don't know i think doing like a billion
24:52
dollars or something in revenue within a
24:54
few years so yeah that's all I was also
24:58
involved in the family down then all the
25:02
distribution but it was deal they say a
25:05
rising tide raises all ships I mean it
25:07
was a time when the industry was just
25:10
exploding and you know I don't want to
25:14
take too much credit for this I was you
25:16
know I was kind of a dumb dumb kid at
25:18
that time and in the right place at the
25:21
right time to kind of grow with the
25:22
industry you know if when I think back
25:26
of all the mistakes that I did make in
25:28
those early years it's it's pretty
25:29
embarrassing but but you know the
25:33
industry was grown at a pace where it
25:35
was fairly forgiving and yeah by the
25:39
time he got 10 years or 15 years later
25:41
then and then suddenly it was a much
25:44
more competitive business but in the
25:45
early days it was really just the fun of
25:47
hanging on for the road as the industry
25:50
exploded sure yeah yeah definitely you
25:53
know everything was kind of lining up
25:54
but you know you definitely did some
25:56
things right for sure and you know we're
25:59
able to create this this great company
26:01
and so the company and just kind of grew
26:04
insanely fast and then I know you know
26:07
you guys had some kind of ups and downs
26:09
some different wave wavy time periods
26:11
you were the company's go great
26:13
financially it was and sometimes it was
26:15
having some some trouble financially but
26:18
then you guys eventually you know you
26:20
got through it you you moved into again
26:22
the the red building is a is everybody
26:25
lovingly names it marks it something
26:28
about you guys are in a shopping center
26:29
or something around the time he started
26:31
working there what looked like a
26:33
shopping center I think yeah and then
26:36
moved into the red building and
26:39
eventually of you guys move buildings
26:42
again and then move to Washington no
26:45
tell everybody a little bit about the
26:47
decision to move to Washington well the
26:52
know Sierra I know we grew rapidly at
26:57
one point we were first well we're in a
27:08
small town at x yosemite yeah i mean
27:11
literally implied that kind of a 10-10
27:14
town which was kind of a country town
27:17
and we started growing and at some point
27:19
kind of had almost 500 employees and
27:23
kind of kind of became a company town i
27:26
guess you'd call it and the problem we
27:29
had you know we seem to have no trouble
27:31
attracting creative talent but when i
27:33
try to look for senior executives or
27:36
people in marketing and sales yeah where
27:40
you for some reason I couldn't get him
27:42
to move to oakhurst who we were and yeah
27:48
and including I quite often get a
27:51
problem where we interviewing someone
27:53
and they'd say you know I'd like to work
27:56
for you but I'm not sure I thinking
27:57
that's my spouse to move to oakhurst
28:00
because you know you would interview
28:04
somebody who was an a player and they
28:06
would be married to somebody who's an a
28:08
player and one of the other would have
28:10
to retire either that or I'd have to
28:12
hire both because you located at age 70
28:16
we were the only game in town and that
28:20
was a problem Jana and Vinay guy I
28:22
remember we were we were hiring for some
28:24
position
28:25
was used under the top recruiting firm
28:26
side of the Silicon Valley and I was
28:30
really angry at the quality of the
28:32
candidates I was him I called him and
28:33
yelled at him and said you know why am I
28:35
seeing all these see players and the i
28:37
said i don't understand can know a
28:39
player would ever moved oakhurst and I
28:43
has realized that it was going to hold
28:46
the comeback and we were never you know
28:48
I'm never going to realize our potential
28:50
by being based in the curse that I
28:53
either had to move the company somewhere
28:54
where you know it could be more of a
28:57
conventional location or much bigger and
29:00
well I'm plus the industry around us was
29:03
changing you know some of the make sure
29:07
our stuff we did when we were a younger
29:10
company wasn't going to fly anymore you
29:12
know I can see it getting them becoming
29:14
mature industry and if our more
29:17
competitive industry and sometimes
29:19
either got to grow up or step aside
29:21
right yeah and so we moved corporate and
29:25
and it did work and if you look at the
29:27
years after we would corporate to
29:29
Seattle I think we more than doubled in
29:32
the end three years after that and yeah
29:36
so it was actually a good decision we
29:38
got some good management and unexploded
29:45
you uh you guys say you you group you
29:48
were kind of a small and you know from
29:50
running it out of your house to this big
29:54
massive thing I think it kind of in
29:56
between years i guess around the time
29:58
that Scott mark mon it was very like
30:01
kind of a family driven company you guys
30:04
hung out a lot had you know Scott let's
30:08
talk about the head you know you guys
30:09
would have Halloween parties and things
30:11
like that at your house and Rome you
30:15
know you got to know got to know them
30:16
how that sounds like that was a lot of
30:18
fun forever yeah was was great yeah I
30:23
think it was kind of difficult as a
30:26
company grew and that you know we went
30:29
from being kind of a collection of your
30:34
friends so all kind of live in a small
30:35
town together and give it coming kind of
30:39
a core
30:39
I mean it toward the MV almost thousand
30:42
employees and y'all put a structure and
30:47
how much everybody hangs out when you
30:48
have 30 people's different than when you
30:50
have thousands my recollection is has
30:52
gotten my were there pretty much from
30:54
the beginning to the end so um a lot of
30:57
a change yeah Emily I don't know yeah
31:03
yeah it was it was a different animal
31:05
and kind of a once in lifetime
31:07
experience to go through watching
31:09
company grow left out yeah yeah and cool
31:12
I wish I'd oh yeah I wonder a I'll
31:16
always wonder for the rest of my life
31:17
turned out if I had stayed with it and
31:20
you know if we had gone no what would
31:23
happen yeah but we sold the company in
31:26
96 and and the mall kind of exploded the
31:29
other direction yeah and no I mean you
31:35
you've knocked a bunch of a bunch of
31:38
them out of the park in terms of your
31:39
decisions and choices and I know that
31:42
that there had to be some really really
31:44
tough moments there had to be some
31:46
really hard times I mean I don't think
31:48
there's a person that's ran a company as
31:51
big as you that didn't have to go
31:54
through this this struggle of making
31:56
hard choices so I'm sure making the
31:59
decision to go to Washington was a tough
32:01
one and I'm had to fly back and forth
32:03
and you know Scott's mentioned how you
32:06
used to have to fly all over the place
32:08
in order to make sure things were moving
32:10
and running properly and the fact that
32:13
the airport so far away from oakhurst I
32:15
know didn't help all right now oh and
32:21
all the fog and Fresno I used to call it
32:23
fog no it was a pretty annoying and that
32:29
the company toward the end was scattered
32:31
to something like 12 locations and once
32:36
a month was either once a month or three
32:38
months no was once a month I would try
32:40
to hit all the locations and they were
32:43
all over the place saying it you know
32:46
you'd get on a plane and pretty much by
32:48
the time I finished visiting education
32:50
and looking at the project it was a
32:52
start over it
32:53
and although that yeah I mean that was
32:56
that was kind of the fun part you know
32:58
if I didn't like about that was I to
33:00
this day freight airplanes and all like
33:03
riding on airplanes that it was you know
33:08
that was really in a way I mean despite
33:10
the travel the great part of the job was
33:12
to weed color milestones that I would
33:15
show up and the teams would show me can
33:18
what we're working on and then you know
33:22
it's kinda like a bumble of bee or
33:23
something kind of going from place to
33:24
place kind of a spreading pollen or
33:27
whatever it is you saw it and because
33:29
you'd be on one division and you'd see
33:31
some cool thing that were doing and I
33:33
could go to the other divisions of the
33:35
company of the other projects and say
33:37
you know I saw something really really
33:39
interesting happening and that I know
33:44
you guys should call him and see if he
33:47
can policy it did work well we think we
33:51
kind of rose to the best of everybody's
33:53
creativity in you you were raising a
33:58
family to all this was going on you guys
34:00
have two sons is that right we do we
34:04
yeah another I kind of grown up which is
34:09
which is depressing as you can tell if
34:11
they're getting and I'll bring that one
34:15
of them's I think 40 and the other one
34:17
35 or something roberto county which
34:20
cheers this later today so you don't
34:23
believe your own kids no no but I know
34:26
that they're they're getting getting old
34:29
I even like the game yeah it's not fun
34:33
my kids are getting old that means i'm
34:35
getting old yep yep that's the way to
34:37
think of it but now that's i just put a
34:44
picture of you and chris up on that on
34:46
the screen i guess we're not visiting
34:48
him up cuz he's a programmer now as i
34:50
right yeah he's been he's kind of got my
34:55
my programming skill or more he's a real
34:58
superstar for programming he was working
35:01
I just when that was taken for a cuppa
35:04
that was going to do a benefit
35:06
social game yeah i'm dumb i only he did
35:12
the server side and led the project for
35:15
this big massively multiplayer game and
35:18
got the game up at about the same time
35:21
the company ran out of money and and
35:24
that that kind of shut that down so nice
35:27
working but outside of the game business
35:30
doing doing serious stuff kind of
35:32
firmware for our radios but so that's
35:37
that's kind of disappointing to see him
35:39
out of the game business but oh well
35:41
yeah he's he's having fun he just works
35:45
he's a gets in the morning works all the
35:48
time and then my other son he loves his
35:51
job or yeah just part of the business
35:53
it's funny and then I looked at I
35:55
remember the Sierra days and how hard
35:57
everybody worked because you know part
36:01
of the problem was that we would have to
36:03
commit to advertising and commit to
36:06
doing when you're producing a game and
36:09
you want it to walmart or somebody who
36:12
stopped the game they'll tell you i'll
36:15
give us X dollars to allocate shelf
36:18
space and then you spend the money on
36:20
the ads and then if the game's not there
36:22
all that money's gone and that everybody
36:27
in the games business or at least
36:28
developers are frequently optimistic and
36:32
and sometimes I was the biggest optimist
36:34
of all and would say oh yeah no we can
36:36
we can get that done in time for
36:38
Christmas everybody on the ads and then
36:41
if the game isn't ready and then it's a
36:43
problem so I remember a lot of a lot of
36:47
time spent working long hours and
36:50
weekends to try to get games out the
36:52
door in time to hit their delivery dates
36:53
yeah the Scots always talked about the
36:57
King's Quest one and the what is the IBM
36:59
PC jr. I believe it's all right yeah you
37:03
guys havin to PA ESO me actually had to
37:06
help pack the boxes and everything for
37:08
this big rush to get it out the door so
37:11
everybody was pitching in that member
37:12
times everybody we have called the whole
37:15
company in the Duke you a call the whole
37:17
company in the pack boxes and
37:20
yeah there was a lot of times when now
37:24
people had to build up above and beyond
37:26
the call of duty in order to make some
37:28
now so yeah I did a lot of credit for
37:31
that really it was it was the people oh
37:34
yeah there are a lot of good people that
37:36
were willing to do what it took to make
37:39
make it succeed yeah yeah sure enough
37:42
and I mean you you guys with King's
37:46
Quest and all of that I was that your
37:49
first huge massive hit for the company
37:52
because I know King's Quest is what
37:53
Kings wasn't space question the two
37:55
games at drew my attention when I was
37:57
younger yeah well I probably leisure
38:01
suit larry under the name soft porn
38:05
gotta got a ton of attention because
38:08
Time magazine got it did an article
38:10
about it and that I remember one point
38:15
thinking that we had sold more copies of
38:19
popcorn than Apple its old computers and
38:23
I was trying to figure out where all the
38:24
inventory meant it the team yeah it was
38:28
kind of a run on it literally and so I
38:32
did well on that yeah all that all TM
38:35
all of the games needed every
38:39
expectation in the early bem yeah it was
38:43
great yeah Larry was a big hit space
38:46
coast was a big hit quest for glory was
38:49
big hit and yeah King's Quest was huge
38:52
that yeah off Roberta's game so I always
38:58
did well it was so soft porn you said
39:04
which I think Berta was on the front of
39:06
that box yep yep should probably know
39:10
happy i flashed a picture that up on the
39:11
screen that half a box but uh all right
39:14
is that it it was fun base with that
39:18
every that that was that was the times
39:21
I'm it was the early 70s and I don't
39:25
know yeah the 70s was the 70s oh well
39:30
yeah if people need me these days they
39:32
think you know where
39:33
wild and crazy guy from hackers I think
39:35
oh well I don't know he's left in the
39:37
seventies oh well now I'm dull but those
39:43
days everybody was a kid once well you
39:46
used you still have a great memory it
39:48
seems like of all the stuff that uh it's
39:50
been going on here meteor you're filling
39:53
in a lot of blanks I think for people
39:54
that's good you know I here's a question
39:59
for you um so you guys again keep
40:06
referring back to oakhurst a bit here
40:08
because I actually got to visit that
40:10
place myself and one of the facilities
40:13
and the one facility I got to visit when
40:15
i came up there as a teenager was the
40:18
the one that kind of everybody called it
40:20
the the shed I think or yeah we go was a
40:24
big warehouse right I've been metal shed
40:26
right right yeah oh that's so you guys I
40:31
guess the the red building you guys
40:35
weren't occupying all the space or
40:36
something he decided to build a sort of
40:38
no we play that when we were flying high
40:44
at when playing and a developer came to
40:46
us wanted to build us a building and and
40:49
did that with that Bell didn't came I
40:52
don't know what the rent was but it was
40:54
probably adventures by 25 grand a month
40:56
or something which when we we hit we hit
41:01
the skids kind of in about nineteen
41:04
eighty-three it was a time when we had
41:09
expanded into video games just as the
41:12
video game market is collapsing and so
41:15
we had spent a lot of money to build
41:19
product and yeah fund development for
41:24
video games at a time when and I don't
41:28
know that we've seen it since in the
41:30
industry when just for whatever reason
41:32
everybody said you know these video
41:34
games are dumb let's throw air machines
41:36
and I remember yacht re was taking ET
41:40
cartridges at that time variant and in
41:42
the woods because he had millions of
41:44
them in the place to put them yeah
41:47
it was so what happened was we had this
41:51
new building the developer built for us
41:53
and I had no way to make the payments on
41:55
it if it was a pretty ugly time we went
41:58
from I think a hundred employees to 20
42:01
employees in days and it was the first
42:06
time that I had ever had to really does
42:10
everything up until that had just been
42:11
kind of fun and games and then all of a
42:13
sudden yeah I realized that we had
42:15
deaths we couldn't pay back and had
42:18
assigned a building lease that was just
42:19
taking us under council we gave the
42:25
building back to the developer who
42:27
converted it to a medical building and I
42:30
don't remember her head office space I
42:33
think while we were still in that
42:35
building with a developer was looking
42:36
for a new tenant and we started working
42:40
on some product for IBM who's just
42:43
introducing the pc jr. and they gave us
42:46
some advances toward those projects
42:48
which kept us in business or we'd have
42:49
been gone yeah then they released the pc
42:55
jr. and it wasn't really a hit but they
42:59
turned out the software that we did for
43:01
IBM also ran on radio shacks was was
43:04
appalled forget Andy 1,000 yeah yeah was
43:10
that thing was a hit and the product
43:15
that IBM had funded became a hit on it
43:17
and suddenly all the Radio Shack stores
43:20
were loading inventory and there are a
43:23
lot of those stores and suddenly you
43:24
know we were back in business and yeah
43:28
then we built the new shed that was
43:29
delayed at that point to stay in the
43:31
building around plus the developer was
43:33
pretty mad at me and would probably
43:35
wouldn't get me again but slowly moved
43:39
moved into the metal shed and actually
43:42
turned out to be a nice building and I
43:45
think it's still there probably in town
43:46
is what it was a pretty good place to be
43:49
yes but I was like the only time in all
43:52
of Sierra's history where where we were
43:56
in serious
44:00
of going out of business and was due to
44:01
the video game expansion to fail I
44:05
remember that time we were running the
44:07
company what was left of it on my credit
44:09
cards and the second on the house and I
44:13
thought know if that was you know that
44:15
was a real grown-up lesson and I
44:17
probably ultimately was good for the
44:20
company because when you been through
44:22
something like that you you'll never
44:24
ever want to do it again and yeah well
44:28
it was uh it was a maturing one yeah you
44:32
know Scott said you know this is
44:34
something I when I first talked to Scott
44:35
about all this Scott was telling me how
44:37
yeah you you did what you had to do to
44:39
make the checks cash you know you flew
44:42
around even though you didn't like
44:43
flying and you know you mortgage on the
44:46
house and I think that's you know that's
44:48
great you know that you you know push
44:51
that hard to keep the company going and
44:52
it ended up paying off i mean the
44:54
company did end up growing and
44:55
continuing on at that time so that ended
44:57
up working and I mean they were I don't
45:01
wanna make you badger because it was
45:03
ninety-nine percent good times and yeah
45:07
there there were a couple of moments
45:08
that were no fun but in general it was
45:11
beyond and then be in public as a public
45:15
company toward the end was certainly
45:17
stressful and that all of a sudden oh
45:21
you've got the added pressure of all the
45:25
public shareholders and when they every
45:30
every three months they want they want
45:31
to see some growth otherwise your stock
45:34
price craters and that means all the
45:35
employees stock options have problems
45:38
and today it was a lot yeah like the
45:41
early days when it was all about the
45:43
creativity and producing cool product
45:47
and then toward the M and suddenly
45:49
you've got 50 games and development at
45:52
the same time and yeah they on no part
45:57
of me wanted to become a corporate
45:58
bureaucrat although he also can't avoid
46:01
it so I think part of why ultimately i
46:04
sold the company was that it became less
46:08
and less and less and less about the
46:10
games at least in my level and
46:13
more and more and more about being a
46:15
public company and dealing with all the
46:21
bureaucracy and crud that comes with
46:23
running a large organization and yeah
46:28
yeah I wanted to I wanted to get a
46:30
little closer to the product right right
46:32
sure it won't you after you you be sold
46:36
Siri you only did you do talk spot but
46:38
didn't you start net market yeah about
46:42
the company that bought the something
46:46
that bot Sierra was the founder of that
46:51
company is very interested in online
46:52
shopping he was actually kind of a
46:54
pioneering guy and was it's a sad story
47:01
in the company the bodice the CEO of
47:05
that company was a believer in it was
47:11
said it was pre-internet days and that
47:14
he would he would always talked about
47:15
his vision for shopping in the future
47:18
and people buying things on the internet
47:20
which in those days was a revolutionary
47:22
idea and I had a lot of the same visions
47:26
a lot of the same interests and and this
47:29
guy didn't really had the technical
47:32
horsepower to make that vision happen
47:34
and and I did and so part of why they
47:38
bought the company was to get me
47:41
involved in online shopping and make
47:43
that thing a reality and so I did that
47:46
after the acquisition and suddenly that
47:49
was kind of fun to do do something like
47:53
that and I'm trying to remember that was
47:54
even on the air and I think that was on
47:56
the internet and and what was kind of
47:59
the beginnings of the Internet in those
48:01
days ya later it turned out that that
48:03
guy who I thought was safer to Hugh and
48:06
such a visionary turned out to be a real
48:09
crook which was as great surprise to me
48:14
but yeah I'm kind of a sad part of those
48:17
story
48:19
she didn't didn't quite see that one
48:21
coming home now on I still to this day
48:24
event if he believed yeah it's hard for
48:27
me to believe and although I assume it's
48:30
true you know it's one of those para you
48:34
know the guy did ultimately go to jail
48:36
that I was there for the trial and
48:39
didn't hear the evidence and so the only
48:41
evidence that i have is what I saw with
48:44
my own eyes and he was a good guy when I
48:47
mean so I don't know that's i'll leave
48:50
that one to other people yeah um yeah I
48:55
think that's fair in a fair way to put
48:58
it really um so when you guys were tired
49:02
you you got into boating and how to
49:04
Roberta take all the retirement did she
49:06
kind of accept it well as you know she
49:08
was she ready to kind of let go for a
49:11
while to know who she was kind of mad at
49:15
me for a long time for don't like it
49:18
company yep wait a minute it's a you
49:23
know it's hard to go from creating these
49:28
games and having the fan base to
49:30
suddenly I'm not being parted right in
49:32
the industry and yeah so she was she was
49:37
not too happy with me there for a while
49:39
and I don't know yeah who does although
49:43
it yeah I think she would have much
49:46
preferred that bill we just ran the
49:48
company forever and ever and ever and
49:52
yeah unless you can keep doing games
49:54
forever and ever right yeah although I
49:56
told her since then I said yeah if you
49:58
want to do it just go back and industry
50:00
into it but we since that time you'll
50:04
kind of gone on to this voting thing and
50:06
they're enjoying it too so I don't know
50:10
yeah I mean maybe someday although now
50:12
we're you know we're not really part of
50:15
the target audience anymore um so I
50:19
don't know you have always a surprise
50:22
I'm telling you man the chat room is um
50:24
it's still growing and right now and
50:27
we've gotten quite a bit of response or
50:29
so there's a lot of people out there
50:30
they're interested to know what you guys
50:32
are up to
50:32
when excited I mean that I hear that all
50:36
the time like out when I do interviews
50:38
with people people are always like oh oh
50:40
nobody wants to hear for me I'm you know
50:43
how did something blah blah blah years
50:45
ago and I mean you'd be surprised people
50:48
are really excited to hear from you I
50:50
mean it's been going crazy this morning
50:51
just people you know twittering and
50:54
facebooking and it's out on reddit and
50:57
like I said a friend of mine from
51:01
Gamasutra even tweeted it out and it's
51:04
just you know it's it's spread I mean
51:06
these guys are excited to hear from you
51:08
you and reverted so we're honored I have
51:13
you I'm amazed that this we've been out
51:16
of the business now for Oh 15 years 16
51:20
years a long time and yet yeah there's a
51:24
lot of people that remember the company
51:26
and the fact that yeah land Jane and
51:29
Scott and Mark are able to do the
51:32
Kickstarter things is that that's
51:35
amazing that's pretty cool well I think
51:37
Mike Mike z23 in the chat room put it
51:41
the best you know we grew up with you
51:42
guys you changed our lives i don't think
51:44
i could say it any better really um you
51:47
know this is true to this day so you
51:51
know i know you probably get fan email
51:53
from people all the time I mean surely
51:56
you know I do and I should be better
52:00
about answering that I can try but
52:03
there's only one of me and a lot of that
52:04
oh yeah male said so yeah I don't know
52:09
yeah my bad about that I apologies to
52:11
everybody who writes me where I don't
52:13
write back I I do read it all so but but
52:17
it could become a full-time job yeah
52:19
yeah you know I know what you mean it's
52:22
it's one of the things i actually do for
52:25
people sometimes have to have to handle
52:26
all that stuff and filter through it you
52:28
ever get any like any negative emails
52:31
from people i mean i wouldn't imagine
52:33
you would but now i can't know if I do
52:38
it so the element from Roberta
52:41
you know as I was telling you right
52:44
before skype I was like my watch this is
52:46
me all the time if Chris if anybody ever
52:48
makes you have a big head just have him
52:49
talk to me yeah there's uh I don't know
52:57
I mean those are those are pretty couple
52:58
days yeah and we made it on it was a
53:02
different world now the everything that
53:07
we did was pretty new because as there
53:10
was a lot of new hundred coming in new
53:12
capabilities and hardware and and we
53:16
were in a leaders position and were able
53:21
to talk to the hardware companies and
53:22
say we wish you would do this and and if
53:26
you'll do that will be doubt and admit
53:28
it ain't really nice because you keep
53:31
any part of watching the not watching
53:35
the industry evolved so it was a cool
53:39
time to be involved ya allah table not
53:41
pretty much the same here look at the
53:43
history five years ago today and the
53:46
hardware five-year yeah even i remember
53:48
in those days you'd get a new computer
53:50
and then a computer would be materially
53:53
faster you know he's couldn't believe
53:55
the difference in speed and what to do
53:57
yeah valuate two years and buy a new
53:59
computer handsome Doug it's kind of the
54:01
same so I agree with that completely
54:03
yeah I'm that so that was part of why I
54:07
think maybe it was such a visible time
54:12
it's because now the hardware was
54:15
evolving fast enough that you know with
54:19
each new gimmick we were able to do cool
54:22
stuff to show off the new hardware so i
54:25
wish i was around today i mean because
54:27
now it's suddenly he's a new burst of
54:29
creativity with the ipad and mobile
54:32
devices and interest in massively
54:36
multiplayer games it and i thought that
54:39
was where I was always most interested
54:42
in my PSN from the very early days when
54:46
fair his name was online systems and was
54:48
because I was interested in networks and
54:51
I had this vision of someday
54:54
people being networked together playing
54:56
games and when we did PSN was five years
55:02
before the internet and yeah we that we
55:08
had oh why 10,000 paying subscribers for
55:13
PSN in five years before the internet I
55:17
was pretty wild times Al Gore has
55:20
nothing on you guys yeah well that yeah
55:26
I wish I wished it and we kept going or
55:30
when I look at coupa video of it and
55:32
stuff at you i wish that that existed
55:35
today is is that even by today's
55:36
standards which is 20 years later it
55:39
looks looks pretty good yeah it really
55:42
it really does I'm you know you guys did
55:46
a great job with yes and I guess I was
55:50
number prodigy first and then when I
55:52
heard about Jess in and got on that I
55:55
was like oh screw this man i'm all about
55:58
this this is great i was el lo he did
56:02
the first set of game for PSN and did
56:09
kind of a mr. Potato Head featured
56:11
whatever they had at the beginning but
56:13
son was cool I me out about the sea air
56:16
years the things I was happiest without
56:19
turned out yeah yeah it was really a lot
56:23
of fun for sure enjoyed that a playing
56:26
TSN and again I know my my dad who had
56:29
to pay the monthly payment in those days
56:31
when I was when I 15 14 or however old I
56:34
was I know he got tired of me begging
56:37
for more time for that was only
56:40
complaint like i said is this not enough
56:42
time and i think i had like 30 hours and
56:45
i would use that up in a matter of a
56:47
couple of days cuz i don't know you're a
56:54
that's funny i'm not all state summer
56:56
summer our worst mistakes came from
56:59
doing things with others if you look at
57:02
it he i was great until we partnered it
57:04
with the TMT and then it fell apart
57:08
and she always paid until he partnered
57:11
with the company god Val what was their
57:15
name send it so that's what sarah was
57:19
our we were very way I think I think
57:23
everybody kind of agrees with that for
57:25
sure and you know TSN became the
57:28
imagination at work and and when it was
57:31
bought is that right it was bought and I
57:33
can you know but well wasn't really
57:36
bought it was you know once again it was
57:39
supposed to be a partnership which would
57:45
because to really roll thing out as big
57:47
as we because we knew he had some pretty
57:50
awesome yeah suddenly it was a bidding
57:55
word a partner with us and it was a it
57:59
was kind of a good even orbiting
58:00
Microsoft and AT&T; and even Bill Gates
58:05
personally got involved in wound up
58:07
trying to convince me that we should
58:09
partner with Microsoft and heard the
58:13
Emily partnered with AT&T; and it was it
58:15
was a 50-50 partnership and ran as a
58:17
50-50 partnership for years but the
58:20
problem was that a 50-50 partnership
58:23
nobody's really calling the shots and
58:27
spent a lot of time kind of hard Ewing
58:29
with AT&T; and all of a sudden things
58:32
that would take five minutes to make a
58:34
decision would take months to make a
58:36
decision and just can't both software in
58:38
that environment and so I just felt art
58:43
unlike the days when we just say we're
58:45
going to do that we did it so but then I
58:49
kind of killed it when you kill
58:50
innovation that's a problem yeah it
58:53
changed from you basically being able to
58:55
just make a decision and say run with it
58:57
to having to go to the board and council
59:00
having to make decisions that right oh
59:02
yeah yep yep suddenly it was well it
59:06
became kind of an us versus them where
59:09
the you know like why all kids who will
59:13
head over the parent to give them the
59:15
most goodies and around things fairly
59:21
lean and mean
59:22
and AT&T; he would well they certainly
59:25
had the deeper pockets so I don't know
59:28
air everything he had just ground to a
59:30
halt orly when we partnered it and then
59:33
ultimately guide which was really sad
59:35
because it was a great thing yeah but I
59:40
was I was well it was quick to make a
59:42
decision wasn't always a right decision
59:44
but he said make it they couldn't move
59:45
right yeah you make the you had to make
59:49
the hard decisions and you know there's
59:53
a there's a cost right bittersweet you
59:55
know that there's rewards to read but
59:57
you also help if everything is moving so
59:59
fast the other wish this is you could
60:01
bank is none right well just go with it
60:06
and we had enough games going but
60:09
ultimately but everything you did pretty
60:11
much every almost every game sold enough
60:16
units to recover its cost and fairly
60:19
well yeah well that's cool are you are
60:23
you excited to play the new space
60:25
venture that uh the two guys are going
60:28
to be putting out here I i I'm drawing
60:31
even the UH the Kickstarter the funny
60:34
stuff that shows up on the on the
60:37
screens if they don't fit each day but I
60:39
saw the ass proper I'm not able to
60:42
say well hey I was rolling it I got
60:47
can't believe even even did that but
60:49
that that's what that's what made space
60:53
quest so so incredible is that EA good
60:57
to be shocked do you say they can't
60:59
really do that get it and yeah I'm
61:02
pretty tough to offend God well that's
61:07
uh that's a cool product yeah it's now
61:10
there's some other you know like when
61:12
it's all the movie what was it there's
61:14
some movie that I saw mountain I'm
61:16
blanking on the name where I just knew
61:19
it was a rip off the base class I mean
61:21
space was really has had a cultural
61:24
impact he's a pretty cool gate yeah yeah
61:27
it really has um there's a lot of we
61:30
were talking about that just yesterday
61:31
actually about how wait
61:32
minute stole that from space last yeah
61:34
there's a galaxy quest some ice in the
61:38
chatroom the others there's quite a bit
61:43
of you know well that's okay because you
61:44
know like space quest there was a lot of
61:46
pop culture references there and they
61:48
stole from people and then people stole
61:50
from them and so it kind of works out
61:54
this cat believe the creativity when I
61:57
yeah but stop mark when their wouldn't
62:00
when they're hot they're hot yeah yeah
62:02
so I don't know yeah I sort of see the
62:05
game of off so that I can I can play it
62:08
so hopefully well I don't hopefully they
62:11
get this thing funded and make it happen
62:14
come on with me has been a big part of
62:16
that and then I know I've sucked up a
62:19
good bit of your time and we're so we're
62:22
going to start finishing this up and if
62:25
you can't hang out up just a few minutes
62:27
after the the recording stops of can
62:31
with me but I did want to thank you so
62:34
much for coming on with this it's been a
62:36
it's been an absolute pleasure absolute
62:38
blast have been going at it for an hour
62:39
which is what I was kind of hoping we
62:41
could do we could do oh and it's been
62:44
it's been a lot of fun with the chat
62:45
room seems to have enjoyed it and you
62:48
know having a good time and so I hope
62:51
that you'll tell everybody in the chat
62:53
room I hope that you'll tell everybody
62:56
including myself along with the chat
62:58
room would love to hear from roberta she
63:00
ever wants to do one of these she's got
63:03
an open invitation for totteridge I was
63:05
surprised that I issue that she did the
63:08
kind of a plug for Scott quiet as you
63:11
normally far away from all the state of
63:13
stuff right now she's she's asleep or
63:16
should I probably would talk her into
63:17
getting on the phone and she it's got
63:20
into Europe after a traveling all night
63:23
so even John can a half grog Elvis this
63:27
later and say boy was I asleep in the uh
63:30
yeah it was a long day flying here from
63:34
Seattle sure yeah imagine so it's got to
63:36
got to be rough but you know again yeah
63:39
we'd love to have her on and then you
63:41
know at some point let her know she's
63:43
got an open invitation and again thank
63:44
her
63:45
I'm us for for doing the picture and
63:47
again thank you so much for taking the
63:49
time than a blast and I know everybody
63:51
in the girls had a lot of fun so they're
63:54
all saying thank you right now actually
63:57
thank you everyone I appreciate it and I
64:01
ya know how everybody we're all right
64:04
well chat room thank you so much as well
64:06
for joining us we've had a blast and for
64:08
all of you guys for asking the questions
64:12
you did I hope you guys have enjoyed
64:13
this and this will be posted later if
64:14
the audio has any problems I'll post the
64:16
audio separately never fear but uh
64:19
thanks everybody see ya