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@kylewm kylewm/#indiewebcamp_20150514 Secret
Created May 14, 2015

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[00:01:13] <kylewm> still a lot of work for someone who isn't interested in twiddling bits
[00:01:16] <KevinMarks_> still no images in wordpress
[00:01:20] <KevinMarks_> :(
[00:01:44] <KartikPrabhu> KevinMarks_ WP is just being picky about data in img src I think
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[00:02:32] <kylewm> also, that's pretty rad that Quill would be a draw for someone to check out indieweb
[00:02:35] <KartikPrabhu> KevinMarks_ what does happen in wordpress? is the src removed completely?
[00:04:46] <KevinMarks_> looks like it <figure> <img></p> </figure>
[00:05:47] <KevinMarks_> http://kevinmarks.tumblr.com/post/118902338435/what-if-medium-got-the-message
[00:09:59] <tantek> we have enough experience with PuSH 0.4 working on personal sites, and it makes enough of a difference in indie readers (the realtime experience), that it's worth adding it explicitly to IndieMark Level 2 IMO
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[00:12:57] <tantek> s/Level 2/Level 3
[00:12:59] <Loqi> tantek meant to say: we have enough experience with PuSH 0.4 working on personal sites, and it makes enough of a difference in indie readers (the realtime experience), that it's worth adding it explicitly to IndieMark Level 3 IMO
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[00:22:37] <KartikPrabhu> KevinMarks_: maybe some intermediate plugin does sanitization to incoming posts
[00:23:34] <Loqi> [@withknown] @nitinthewiz We support the indieweb technologies out of the box, fwiw. Available to download at https://withknown.com/opensource/ (http://twtr.io/zQAaMYgQ3D)
[00:23:35] <KevinMarks_> I haven't experimented wiht img in wp.com before
[00:24:55] <KevinMarks_> kylewm: what if feverdream injected h-entry etc as part of the post to the wp.com & tumblr silos?
[00:32:47] <Loqi> [[IndieMark]] https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?diff=19262&oldid=16675&rcid=19266 * Tantek.com * (+386) clarify level 3 and some level 4 items, add Level 3: syndication: PuSH 0.4, "handle responses" axis with some draft levels inside it, Level 4: multiple response types incl RSVP
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[00:33:10] <kylewm> wp.com already has hentry doesn't it? I inject some mf2, u-in-reply-to, u-in-like-of at least.
[00:34:31] <tantek> alright I made some medium size mods to IndieMark level 3 and level 4 based upon general implementation trends in the community (e.g. PuSH 0.4 support, multiple response types)
[00:35:07] <tantek> please review everyone, I think most folks active in this channel have most (if not all) of Level 3 and most of Level 4 as well - see if it's at least semi-reasonably worded (at least as compared to before) https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark#Level_3
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[01:13:28] <Loqi> [@aaronpk] @nitinthewiz I'm pretty sure you only need the Micropub plugin to use Quill with Wordpress. #IndieWeb (http://twtr.io/zQF4ZR4pmf)
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[01:15:01] <kylewm> just got an email from Heroku that my free tier apps will be migrated to the new pricing model July 1st, that is very soon!
[01:15:18] <kylewm> I thought maybe existing free apps would be grandfathered in for a while
[01:17:53] <kylewm> Dave Winer made the point that their old model seemed to be "use our platform for free until your app takes off, then we both profit!"
[01:18:06] <kylewm> interesting shift in strategy
[01:36:29] <Loqi> [@nitinthewiz] @aaronpk the authentication process is best solved by the IndieWeb plugin, which then calls for 3 more plugins to be installed. (http://twtr.io/zQH8gEB8J8)
[01:47:49] <aaronpk> hmm i think that is not the case
[01:48:18] <aaronpk> i'm not super familiar with the wordpress stuff, but i thought if you had rel=me links on your wordpress home page then the micropub plugin would work
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[01:55:04] <GWG> aaronpk: It does.
[01:55:09] <Loqi> GWG: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 37 minutes ago: do you support PuSH 0.3 on your Atom feed, or PuSH 0.4 on your h-feed, or both? https://indiewebcamp.com/PubSubHubbub#David_Shanske http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-13/line/1431551848444
[01:55:16] <KevinMarks> Hm, so I need to check my Heroku apps too?
[01:55:45] <tantek> all of a sudden that whole web hosting portability thing matters more doesn't it?
[01:55:50] <KevinMarks> I wonder if I still have the "don't charge him" flag at from working at Salesforce
[01:56:20] <GWG> tantek: I don't think anyone wrote a 0.4 plugin for WordPress, so 0.3 I think.
[01:56:33] <tantek> kylewm: could you update at least the summary at the top of /Heroku re: free tier expiring soon? Add more too.
[01:56:39] <KevinMarks> Kevinmarks.com is static enough that I can move it easily
[01:56:41] <tantek> GWG, no pfefferle has and is running it
[01:56:50] <KevinMarks> Noterlive.com is a bit more work
[01:56:56] <GWG> tantek: Then I'd better look.
[01:57:21] <tantek> Other Heroku apps in the community: https://indiewebcamp.com/Heroku#IndieWeb_Examples
[01:57:33] <tantek> GWG see https://indiewebcamp.com/PuSH#WordPress_Plugins_for_PuSH
[01:57:42] <tantek> "An alternative, that also supports PubSubHubbub v0.4, is the PubSubHubbub Plugin. "
[01:57:47] <tantek> https://wordpress.org/plugins/pubsubhubbub/
[01:57:52] <kylewm> there is still a free tier that can be up up to 18 hours/day
[01:57:56] <tantek> https://indiewebcamp.com/PuSH#Matthias_Pfefferle
[01:57:58] <kylewm> probably good enough for NoterLive?
[01:58:06] <GWG> tantek: There was a reason for my decision. I have to go review it
[01:58:18] <GWG> tantek: Just working on a rewrite of something.
[01:58:21] <GWG> Will make a note
[01:58:22] <kylewm> but probably not for webmention.herokuapp.com nor kevinmarks.com :/
[01:58:24] <tantek> GWG - when you remember the reason - can you document it here? https://indiewebcamp.com/PuSH#WordPress_Plugins_for_PuSH
[01:58:46] <tantek> kylewm: that's definitely worth warning people about at the top of /Heroku !
[01:58:57] <GWG> I'm fixing something in Post Kinds so I can bump the version number after that whole annoyance this morning.
[01:59:01] <kylewm> tantek: heading out the door, but i will document tonight!
[01:59:08] <tantek> thanks kylewm appreciated!
[01:59:10] <tantek> GWG - good call
[01:59:36] <GWG> tantek: I'm still annoyed by it. I fixed the thing and it got retweeted all over the place.
[01:59:49] <tantek> GWG - I suppose that's because of the lack of version # bump?
[01:59:56] <tantek> note: always bump version number for security fixes
[02:00:06] <GWG> Yes. I'm new to this.
[02:00:19] <GWG> I was working on the next version
[02:00:21] <kylewm> tantek: GWG: pfefferle's plugin delegates to superfeedr, i'm 90% sure (as opposed to PushPress which implements its own 0.3 compat hub)
[02:00:37] <GWG> I think that was why I picked the self-hosted version
[02:00:38] <tantek> kylewm: then why does it claim PuSH 0.4 support?
[02:01:11] <tantek> oh wait - superfeedr is what I'm using too
[02:01:23] <tantek> having 0.4 support (over 0.3) is more important than running your own hub
[02:02:44] <tantek> KevinMarks: please take notes on what you had to do to switch things away from Heroku
[02:02:59] <tantek> would be great to capture that on the wiki
[02:03:04] <tantek> with the real world experience
[02:03:30] <kylewm> Winer has documented his move from Heroku to AWS in great detail, just fyi
[02:03:51] <tantek> Last time I attempted to understand / "solve" the larger problem of deployment (not just migration), I ended up brainstorming / researching this: https://indiewebcamp.com/deployment which has more questions than answers :/
[02:06:08] <Loqi> [[Heroku]] ! https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?diff=19263&oldid=18597&rcid=19267 * Kylewm.com * (+359) /* Costs */ note new pricing model
[02:07:48] <Vendan> heh, I also go with single file deployment
[02:08:27] <KevinMarks> I spent a little time trying to make stuff cross post to Google and Amazon, but got too annoyed by it
[02:08:46] <KevinMarks> Maybe I should revive that
[02:10:34] <kylewm> I think I was wrong, it doesn't look like Winer documented his transition to Amazon
[02:12:23] <kylewm> KevinMarks: what means "cross post to Google and Amazon"?
[02:13:23] <Vendan> store assets on S3 and similar from heroku?
[02:14:55] <KevinMarks> Yes, I set up g.kevinmarks.com and a.kevinmarks.com
[02:15:21] <KevinMarks> But didn't get the automatic copying over working
[02:16:13] <KevinMarks> Also, Amazon sucks at cross data centre routing
[02:16:24] <KevinMarks> And co fig in general tbh
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[02:19:02] <KevinMarks> Hm, micropub api to posting to s3/google cloud?
[02:19:41] <Vendan> I don't really recommend it for indieweb, but I did have fun learning how to get wercker to build and deploy binaries to my server
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[02:19:52] <KevinMarks> If I do that, then I can have a micropub POSSE fanout, using known and feverdream
[02:20:18] <KevinMarks> Can I just run go on appengine? I assume it is efficient enough to make the free tier good
[02:20:57] <Vendan> most likely, though go has some "issues" on appengine
[02:21:17] <Vendan> there's certain things you can't do on GAE in go
[02:21:44] <KevinMarks> I remember talking to the Heroku people a couple of years ago, and they said that they set up the pricing model so that ruby apps would end up paying them, but that node ones were more efficient
[02:21:45] <Vendan> realistically, go is also efficient enough to do a lot on a $10~$15/year vps
[02:22:32] <Vendan> bear in mind, for a go app, you don't even need a web server. go's stdlib web server is very well built
[02:23:15] <Vendan> most golang stuff ends up just being done using http proxy if it's behind apache or lighttpd
[02:28:01] <Vendan> just as a point of pride, my current indieweb software, even with loading and rendering notes and profile info, and without any caching
[02:28:28] <Vendan> handles 3283 requests per second
[02:29:41] <Vendan> which, in the current state, would involve sending 57 megabits per second of data
[02:30:10] <Vendan> not even sure the network stuff it's on would really handle it
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[02:59:36] <GWG> Okay, Version 1.4.0 out.
[02:59:45] <GWG> I can now relax for a few
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[03:07:31] <Vendan> heh, interesting idea: site where you can indieauth and have it run a siege of your site, and get a report of requests/second and data transfer/second
[03:07:40] <Vendan> cause tests like that are better from remote
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[03:31:26] <Vendan> hrm, I've read through the PuSH specs, and it looks like running a hub as part of your server, and just triggering off notifications to subscribers, is perfectly legitimate. Probably gonna write a library for golang that'll let you add PuSH pub/hub to a site really easily
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[06:09:03] <KevinMarks> http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-05-10
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[06:16:00] <Loqi> Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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[06:49:40] <Loqi> [@oliverandrich] Alles was man zu Facebook Instant Articles sagen muss. Indieweb FTW! https://twitter.com/JeremiahLee/status/598675071956221952 (http://twtr.io/zQkHvGb1Vb)
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[07:07:38] <KevinMarks_> hm, think I found a bug in rel-urls parsing: http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkevinmarks.tumblr.com%2F&html=&pretty=on
[07:13:38] <KartikPrabhu> the bug being?
[07:14:01] <KartikPrabhu> oh micropub?
[07:14:54] <Loqi> [@red_web] RT @oliverandrich: Alles was man zu Facebook Instant Articles sagen muss. Indieweb FTW! https://twitter.com/JeremiahLee/status/598675071956221952 (http://twtr.io/zQn_1jBHYo)
[07:15:08] <KartikPrabhu> i must admit I haven't fully grokked the rel-url parsing
[07:27:51] <KevinMarks_> it's putting the full text of the body as text inside the rel link
[07:28:00] <KevinMarks_> can't reproduce locally though
[07:31:14] <Loqi> [@mickymetts] http://indiewebcamp.com/ is a very interesting idea for an alternative for publishers to look at. https://twitter.com/TreborS/status/598415483868581888 (http://twtr.io/zQp29RQwxb)
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[07:52:42] <KartikPrabhu> strange
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[08:01:33] <KevinMarks_> wondering if this is ome html5lib interaction
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[09:06:10] <Loqi> [@BdzvPresse] RT @oliverandrich: Alles was man zu Facebook Instant Articles sagen muss. Indieweb FTW! https://twitter.com/JeremiahLee/status/598675071956221952 (http://twtr.io/zQx_EStABC)
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[09:10:43] <Loqi> [@mapkyca] @benwerd But you could equally say "while identity is needed to get a domain, I'm fundamentally opposed to #indieweb" (http://twtr.io/zQxymNsaC0)
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[09:41:54] <Loqi> [@pintman] Meine Linktipps zum Feiertag: #Gobby #Retro #FHS #Desktop #c’t #Bildungsrevolution https://www.bakera.de/wp/2015/05/sammelsurium-gobby-retro-fhs-desktop-ct-bildungsrevolution-indieweb-xmpp/ #fb (http://twtr.io/zR0mXSb9t4)
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[10:09:12] <Loqi> [@dkreuz] RT @kevinmarks: “So what happens when Facebook goes away?” Notes on the Surrender at Menlo Park http://www.theawl.com/2015/05/what-could-go-wrong #indieweb (http://twtr.io/zR3ECzMkPC)
[10:10:16] <petermolnar> that gif on that theawl site is spooky
[10:16:21] <petermolnar> question: am I just imagining or is there a silent mass silo-quit upon us?
[10:16:45] <petermolnar> I'm reading more and more articles of people leaving networks, but most of them just silently disappear
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[10:21:44] <tommorris> schema 2.0 is now out: http://blog.schema.org/2015/05/schema.html and http://schema.org/docs/releases.html
[10:21:49] <tommorris> interesting
[10:24:30] <tommorris> and despite RDF being inherently extensible, schema.org now has its own half-baked extension mechanism called PropertyValue. http://schema.org/PropertyValue
[10:25:03] * tommorris screams quietly to himself.
[10:32:03] <LukasRos> tommorris: A lot of people seem to be convinced that using RDF with more than one ontology/namespace makes it too complicated for anyone to use and reinvent things over again.
[10:33:22] <tommorris> but using somethinglike myownnamespace:property is a lot less complicated than PropertyValues.
[10:33:43] <tommorris> it's almost as if Google have discovered that extensibility is useful even though microdata was built on the assumption that extensibility isn't useful.
[10:33:52] <tommorris> this is why I drink.
[10:35:56] <LukasRos> All that linked data stuff is highly controversial but I’m sure alcohol is no solution to it ;)
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[11:16:09] <Loqi> [@hosttor] RT @mickymetts: http://indiewebcamp.com/ is a very interesting idea for an alternative for publishers to look at. https://twitter.com/TreborS/status/598415483868581888 (http://twtr.io/zR9FMVdiqR)
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[11:18:18] <petermolnar> are there any news on IndieWebCamp Brighton? As in a slightly more specific when then September?
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[12:01:40] <Loqi> [@glennjones] Back after 5 days at @indiewebcamp and @btconf in Düsseldorf. Events made so much better by a great crowd of friendly and welcoming people (http://twtr.io/zRDLohh59L)
[12:06:31] <GWG> Good morning, all
[12:06:39] <petermolnar> good morning
[12:08:14] <GWG> petermolnar: Anything new there?
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[12:08:39] <petermolnar> apart from me considering dropping all my social media accounts, nothing
[12:09:09] <petermolnar> ( partly thanks to Facebook's new idea of showing actual content of 3rd party on FB itself without navigating to other sites )
[12:09:13] <GWG> petermolnar: I consider it all the time.
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[12:13:05] <petermolnar> what are your reasons?
[12:13:07] <Loqi> It looks like we don't have a page for "your reasons" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=your+reasons&summary=prompted+by+petermolnar+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-14%2Fline%2F1431605585619
[12:13:21] <petermolnar> No, Loqi, that was not a question like that
[12:13:24] <GWG> petermolnar: I find these sites frustrating.
[12:13:34] <LukasRos> petermolnar + GWG: What prevents you from leaving Facebook then?
[12:15:41] <GWG> LukasRos: Cutting myself off from opportunities for interaction is an issue.
[12:20:02] <Vendan> I have, for a long time now, refused to even touch FB
[12:20:49] <LukasRos> GWG: Yes, agreed, there are few people you only interact with on FB and one certainly does not want to cut oneself off from the social sphere.
[12:20:56] <Vendan> I'm torn on twitter, though the short messages bug me. How many people still tweet from SMS?
[12:21:33] <GWG> I'm not an extremely active user of anything. I don't post much on any network.
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[12:25:00] <petermolnar> LukasRos living abroad makes day-to-day interactions w/ friends & family @ home hard
[12:26:21] <petermolnar> Vendan I think a big mass had been quietly abandoning twitter for about half a year now
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[12:27:56] <Vendan> main thing I like about it is that most of my friends are on it
[12:28:33] <Vendan> I really feel like I just want to post to my own site, and send titles and a link to twitter
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[12:38:22] <LanceyWork> well it's a good thing the indieweb paradigm exists then
[12:38:26] <GWG> Vendan: That would be POSSE, one of the core things here.
[12:38:36] <Vendan> yeap
[12:39:26] <Vendan> working on getting webmention stuff working, then it's going to be a toss-up between micropub and POSSE
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[12:39:59] <Vendan> as well as building a PuSH hubby thing
[12:40:01] <GWG> If you already have a post UI, I'd do POSSE first
[12:40:41] <Vendan> I've halfassed a post ui
[12:41:45] <Vendan> I'm kinda thinking of getting micropub working, and using it for my editor
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[14:48:07] <bret> !tell snarfed is it possible to update youtube-dl to 2015.05.10 on huffduff video? it fixes some bugs on ustream
[14:48:29] <bret> loqiiiii
[14:48:47] <ben_thatmustbeme> woah
[14:48:50] <ben_thatmustbeme> no Loqi
[14:51:02] <LukasRos> OMG they killed Loqi :(
[14:51:03] <LukasRos> I was already wondering why no wiki edits came in IRC.
[14:51:24] <petermolnar> even Loqi has to sleep sometimes
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[14:56:41] <ben_thatmustbeme> but i think that means no web IRC client
[14:56:53] <ben_thatmustbeme> or rather no text fed back to it
[14:57:10] <ben_thatmustbeme> well the ?beta one anyway
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[15:40:06] <kylewm> the job of FB bug reviewers seems to be, deflect, deny, redirect
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[15:43:36] <kylewm> Will he be caught in my inescapable logic trap?? https://developers.facebook.com/bugs/449024225257676/?comment_id=1442357469393732
[15:44:09] <Vendan> refuse to log into fb, so I can't read that
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[15:49:05] <kylewm> Vendan: reposted to the github tracker https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/403#issuecomment-102079431
[15:49:19] <aaronpk> does anyone have logs of this channel since 05:41 PDT?
[15:49:51] <kylewm> I do
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[15:50:32] <aaronpk> could you put them in a gist or something? I need to backfill since Loqi and my client were offline
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