Dear Geo-Community,
I would like to thank Maria for standing up and sharing her opinion. I think that she is brave for stepping into this discussion. As mentioned by her and Sara, this conversation has become uncomfortable for multiple reasons.
I have been holding back on this conversation because I am working on my local chapter and don’t want to blow up my own projects by expressing my opinions. I am ashamed about this political calculus because I think people should jump in when they see something uncomfortable going on in public. I am an advocate for building a welcoming community and as such feel I need to jump in when I feel that things are not right.
To be clear, my opinions and thoughts are my own and do not represent those of my company, non-profit, local chapter, or my board.
- I respect and believe in all the people who are participating in this conversation
- I believe
- Marc should have responded better
- This is the whole uncomfortable timeline
- We need to find a way to move forward, together
I have met Sara Safavi couple of times at FOSS4G conferences and believe her to be a powerful force for good in the world. She is passionate about the community and a total powerhouse when it comes to programming. I attended her CLI OGR training in Raliegh and learned a lot from her. I like to think of her as a friend, but we are not close and I have not communicated with her directly about any of this.
I have met Marc a couple of times at FOSS4G conferences and I have worked with him on the marketing committee for OSGeo, FOSS4GNA 2018, and I am now working with him on the FOSS4GNA Core Committee. He is passionate about the future growth of the OSGeo community and is has taken on many roles within the community which have benefited the community greatly.
I have been following this conversation all along and have respect for everyone who has chimed in to share their thoughts.
I hoped and encouraged Marc to respond to Sara. I did not realize what he would write and I was disappointed by his tone and delivery. I hoped he would share some information about the conference in a way similar to what Michael Terner had done in his FOSS4GNA presentation.
This conversation has gotten uncomfortable. I don't believe it was the intention of anyone in the community to make this uncomfortable, I sincerely believe everyone wants what is best for the community.
Since this conversation has jumped across multiple communincation threads I will try to share it here as best I can trying to edit for clarity and try my best to remove as much of my own bias as possible (I'm not perfect):
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@rjhale in talking about the FOSS4GNA writes
“It would be nice if the financial end were open so we can see the sausage being made though”
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@TheaClay responds with
“The financials are open, have always been. Happy to share if you're curious.”
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@sarasomewhere writes
“Hey Thea! Can you share the link to where it's all posted?”
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@TheaClay writes
“Sorry, should have clarified, open not posted to google. I'll remedy bc clearly great info for the community. @TernerGeo @GuidoS how did ya'll post the financials? I'd like to follow your model.”
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@TernerGeo, @StevenFeldman, & @Guidos(me) respond to @TheaClay request for a financial disclosure model she can use for sharing the financials from FOSS4GNA
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@sarasomewhere writes
“Hey #foss4gna folks, any update on getting that open financial info online and publicly accessible?”
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@TheaClay writes
"We are still in active registration and finalizing numbers. We're working with sponsors and the committee to make sure you get the info you're requesting as soon as possible. That said, I'd prefer to give accurate numbers vs estimates so we truly appreciate your patience."
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- Medium Post
- Sara writes a blog post about her feelings about the FOSS4GNA 2018 in which she:
- asserts credit for the keynote speakers
- asserts that the mission of the conference has been sidetracked
- shares two selected photos asserting a lack of diversity
- asserts that her involvement in the organizing committee as Chair of the Program was an attempt of “diversity-washing”
- shares a slack committee conversation with the following title
- “LocationTech staff, on replacing a chronically absent (male) volunteer with a new (female) volunteer”
- shares a slack committee conversation with the following title
- “Another LocationTech staff, on attendee responses to a “dietary restrictions” conference registration form field”
- asserts her reason for leaving the organizing committee
- “because of that hurt”
- asserts that the following people are being excluded:
- people who choose not to consume alcohol
- people who avoid alcohol in professional settings
- people who can’t afford the cost of attendance
- people with disabilities
- parents who lack a support network or the financial means to travel without their kids
- people who are underrepresented minorities, women & non-binary folks
- people who are not already a member of the predominantly-white-and-male old boys’ club of open-source geo
- recommends the following actions for the conference:
- Implement and enforce a code of conduct
- Offer childcare options
- Reduce the booze
- Lower the cost of attendance and add more scholarships
- Expand the reach of the conference content
- Shift the financial priority away from free beer, pen bars, gala parties, and branded swag
- recommends the following actions to the community:
- Companies and their employees should change the conference priorities and advocate for change
- “Advocate for those who might not advocate for themselves”
- “Commit to only speaking, teaching, or otherwise contributing to events with a Code of Conduct”
- “Ask for it: if you’re attending a conference, simply asking for information about childcare, facility accessibility, food options, scholarship funds, and similar can make a huge difference”
- “Reach out & invite in”
- “Put your money where your mouth is”
- asserts “Moving away from our default “this is how we’ve always done it” habits is going to produce some growing pains”
- asserts “I have faith in the open-source geo community, though: it can grow up, and it can be better.”
- Sara writes a blog post about her feelings about the FOSS4GNA 2018 in which she:
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- @sarasomewhere writes
"It's been a couple weeks, and I'm still interested in hearing any updates on this! This kind of open info is important to our community, especially as folks start thinking about 2019 events. #gistribe #foss4g #foss4gna"
- @sarasomewhere writes
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@sarasomewhere writes
"It's been another couple weeks, and I'm still interested in updates on this! I've learned that at least one keynote speaker was not paid due to "the money running out" -- so it would be great for the community to get some official numbers. #foss4gna #foss4g"
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a conversation ensues about speaker payments
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- Conference dev email list
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Sara writes an email to the conference dev in which she:
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shares her multiple requests through twitter for financial information
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shares a slack committee conversation with Jody Garnett and Marc Vloemans which she uses to support the following statement
"Those statements now appear to be contradicted by the recent comment [1] that "there is no obligation" of LocationTech to share FOSS4G-NA financials"
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asserts
"My ongoing requests have thus far been an attempt to continue the conversation that originally took place on twitter on May 4th. As Marc said last night that he does not "communicate with people via twitter" [1], I'm more than happy to continue the public conversation with him or any relevant representative(s) here."
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- Conference dev email list
- Marc responds to Sara on the 14th, but is not sent to the list and the email we all see is from Sara in reply:
Hi Marc:
Please do not bring my employer into this. That is threatening behavior, and is incredibly inappropriate for anyone in this community to engage in.
The fact that I was Program Chair of FOSS4G-NA 2018 for six months is no secret: among many reasons documented elsewhere, I found a replacement for myself and stepped down from the role in order to maintain "separation of church & state", as it were, when I felt it was no longer tenable to represent both my employer and FOSS4G-NA at the same time (this directly followed you asking Sara-the-Program-Chair to "wiggle a platinum sponsorship from" her employer).
Come on, folks. I'm not trying to make unreasonable demands. I'm not trying to launch any missiles. I'm just trying to continue a conversation that LocationTech staff started on May 4. Personal attacks on me and dismissing this as a "non-discussion" aren't constructive.
--Sara
On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 8:00 PM, Marc Vloemans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear all,After so many tweets, posts, blogs etc. I feel a formal response is needed.
LocationTech - as part of a longstanding agreement with the Core Committee of Foss4g NA - has acted as the contractor/producer of this conference. This entailed that all pre-conference investments and financial risks were off the shoulders of OSGeo.org. Regional conferences like this one elsewhere in the world are taken on by local/regional chapters. But until some weeks ago there was no such chapter in North America. Therefor this special construct. LocationTech has informed the Core Committee before “St Louis” that we would not be able to continue this arrangement as the financial and human resources were beyond its means.
The demands made by Sara Safavi to give insight into the books are not appropriate. Comparable to a customer asking her employer (Planet Labs) to open their books to a customer. Since FOSS4G NA mostly relied on professional staff (instead of volunteers like in “Boston” and Companies sponsoring their employee’s time) this would give third parties indirect information re salaries etc. And I will not do that. Ever. Especially if persons try to force my hand, when they have no legal, moral or other right to this type of personal information.
Furthermore, I would like to emphasise that Sara has been Program Chair of FOSS4G NA 2018 until the deadline for the CfP. She has been aware of this arrangement from the beginning....
On another note; this non-discussion is damaging the Core Committee, the FOSS4G NA and overall brands at large and OSGeo (both .org and US). And the great working relationship between OSGeo and LocationTech. But furthermore, it makes our community a place where those who put in actual work and energy are subjected to harassment. With the silent approval of the majority..... If we want to keep present/attract future volunteers, partners, supporters and sponsors we need to put a stop to this type of behaviour. Right here and now. Otherwise we dig our collective grave.
If the majority keeps their silence then OSGeo has become a very toxic place, indeed!
(And I still wonder whether the demands represent Planet Labs’ (who was a welcome and respected sponsor of this year’s FOSS4G NA) opinion or not .....)
Hope this gives background and puts an end to this non-discussion.
Kind regards, Marc
- Marc responds to Sara on the 14th, but is not sent to the list and the email we all see is from Sara in reply:
- Conference dev email list
- Marc replied again, but can only be seen in Maria's responce:
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 2:49 PM, Marc Vloemans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi All, Indeed, over the last three FOSS4G NA’s there were no financials published. Eclipse Foundation/LocationTech has been the supplier of production/logistical/marketing services. That is a different arrangement from other FOSS4G’s. Call it a historical anomaly.
Without the involvement of the amount of volunteers usually involved In organising such event, EF/LT have used the services of various sub-contractors. These are suppliers for 12+ years, with rates reflecting the longstanding relationship. Divulging the contractual arrangements is bad business practice and in many cases against the contractual stipulations. Even asking EF/LT as main contractor for monetary info is not done. Your companies/employers don’t do this too re clients.
So again, no numbers are given. For a host of valid and legal reasons.
However. On the income side anybody can do the math (10% early bird) from the publicly available info on the conference website. Extra work to provide this seems rather excessive.
So, framing the discussion in terms of ‘transparency’ is - considering the above - somewhat beside the point. In that case no
The handover to future organisers is secured via the Core Committee. That was the ‘client’ of the event.
What everyone seems to ignore is that harassment and misinformation have been happening. In the ‘open’. And that the Board and community at large is choosing to ignore this. Which sends a signal as loud as if shouted from the rooftops. If that is what we want....
I was agreeing with you until this point.
Why this separation between you and the community? Are you not part of the community? Did I miss something?
And also, why this separation between the community and the board? Is it because the CoC team is dormant and we should do something about it? We are doing something about it. But my search for volunteers is not being very effective. People tend to think that either that is not something that affects them or that that is something they don't have to solve (because they are not the ones that created the harassment). If you have a better way to handle this, please, enlighten me. Because I am not sure what else to try besides what we are already trying.
Also, on a personal side, I haven't seen any harassment yet. Maybe I missed it? Maybe I saw it but didn't see the harassment? How can I, as part of the community, answer to something that I haven't seen? Did it happen outside the OSGeo mailing lists? Outside my social network range? How would I know?
And if you (or anyone else) knows there is harassment, why haven't you pointed at it? Why haven't you told anything until now? I still don't know where this harassment has happened, you just mentioned an ethereal event I don't know of, how can I act?
- Sara request to be removed form the list and then responds to why she would like to be removed
Thanks Jeff, Maxi. I appreciate both of your messages!
It's not a matter of hurtful words, though; it's no longer wanting to be affiliated with a community whose members make open threats to my employment. I like & need my job too much to continue making myself a target for that.
Don't worry, I'll still be out here evangelizing/supporting/contributing to open source geo software.
Cheers,
SaraOn Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 9:26 AM, Jeff McKenna <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Sara,
Although we haven't (yet) shared FOSS4G travels together I have to say that I truly admire your passion and efforts, and we share a lot of the same traits (do-ing, asking questions, diving in, etc.) I strongly second Maxi's words. You are a leader and a big part of the OSGeo community. Much of what you have been saying or asking I've been literally taking notes of how we can improve. In fact I see you taking on more of a role and not less. I am just speaking from the heart and being open.
I know how the written word can be so hurtful these days (and I don't want / but yet know that unfortunately my own words here can be misinterpreted as taking one side versus another), but I hope this public support shown here can give you renewed hope and energy for the OSGeo community.
I encourage you to keep being you.
-jeff
On 2018-06-19 2:03 PM, Sara wrote:
Hello community,
Can someone point me at the relevant documentation re: retiring current membership status? Specifically, related to Charter membership.
I understand the processes to nominate & add new charter members but not clear on how current charter members can retire.
To put it another way: how to edit https://www.osgeo.org/about/charter-members/ https://www.osgeo.org/about/charter-members/?
Thanks,
Sara Safavi
Here are my takeaways and understandings from the above timeline:
- Sara asserts that the FOSS4G conference is moving away from it's true mission. She feels that there may have been money to make the conference more welcoming and would like to know how the money was spent in the FOSS4GNA 2018.
- Sara is upset that Thea, a LocationTech representative, said that the financial information would be made available and then stopped responding to her requests
- Sara is upset because she feels that the financial information of this event should be made available but is being told by Marc, another LocationTech representative, that it is not available.
- Sara is upset because she feels that Mark is attacking her personally by bringing up the name of her employer in an email response.
- Sara wants to be removed from the list of charter members because she feels participating as a charter member endorses the community behavior which she feels endangers her job
- Marc asserts that he and his organization are being harased
- Marc asserts that LocationTech is not willing to share financial information on FOSS4G NA 2018 because it would negatively impact the organization, as it would potentially reveal pricing that has been built up via relationships with their vendors over their years of conference organizing, as well as potentially making his colleague's salaries public.
- Marc asserts that his organization is not required to share the financial information based on their contract with the community
- Marc asserts that Sara should have been aware of this relationship because she has participated withthe 2018 and 2016 FOSS4GNA committees
- Marc asserts that Sara's repeated request on twitter and now through the conference dev list is damaging to the FOSS4G community by lowering morale
- Marc believes
If the majority keeps their silence then OSGeo has become a very toxic place, indeed!
So now what?
I think that it would be good to have a time out and slow this down a little.
I think that both Sara and Marc have been heard and the they and the community need to move forward together. I am sure that they both want a positive outcome from this tension for the community.
I don't know what the resolve is to this situation, but I would like to ask something of both Sara and Marc.
Sara, I would ask for your patience and bravery in this process. As you stated in your blog post, "Moving away from our default “this is how we’ve always done it” habits is going to produce some growing pains." I hope that you can endure a few more growing pains as I know you want a brighter more welcoming future for the community and you have always put in the time. You are a valued contributor and you have my respect.
Marc, I would ask for your patience and understanding in this process. You know that there has been a rocky history between LocationTech and the OSGeo community and I don't think everything has been settled. That said, I know you and your team have worked very hard to try and support this community. Having worked with you in the past and currently I know you want to make this community stronger and more coherent.
The only thing I can do at this point is to work with Maria on the CoC and make sure that we address some of the issues brought up here and see if we can find potential methods to resolve these issues in the future if not find better ways to make sure people feel heard.
That is all I have to say, thank you for your time and consideration,
Guido Stein OSGeo Community member
P.S. If I Had More Time, I Would Have Written a Shorter Letter