Airsonic Meeting 2017-07-22

airsonic-meeting.2017-07-22.txt

00:00:00 - {Day changed to Saturday, July 22, 2017}
03:25:59 joola[m] Could we get the rebranding finish for today ?
03:26:42 joola[m] We still have our 15hUTC meeting but if we only are 2 for this :p!
03:27:23 joola[m] We could get the rebranding issue closed and release our first airsonic
03:27:43 joola[m] Or can't we ? Is there still some PR to build ?
08:37:16 joola[m] @muff1nman you here ?
08:37:29 joola[m] it is 15H37 UTC
08:38:37 muff1nman[m] Ya I'm here, sorry
08:38:54 joola[m] So you have some time ?
08:39:15 joola[m] I guess we will be 2 in this discuss
08:39:26 muff1nman[m] I have about an hour or so
08:39:49 muff1nman[m] So I think we have two things to discuss
08:39:59 muff1nman[m] The rebrand
08:40:04 joola[m] Yes
08:40:10 muff1nman[m] And what all needs to go out with 6.3
08:40:22 joola[m] And our release policy
08:40:35 joola[m] And the entire system that goes with it
08:40:44 muff1nman[m] Release policy?
08:41:08 joola[m] I don't know how i can write that but it was about the releases :
08:41:14 joola[m] 6.x major
08:41:25 joola[m] 6.3.x minor
08:41:30 muff1nman[m] Oh versioning you mean?
08:41:32 joola[m] 6.3.1  bugfixes
08:41:34 joola[m] Yeah
08:41:39 joola[m] And also where is our repo ?
08:42:00 joola[m] Since with libresonic we had daily builds ( libresonic-develop.war )
08:42:10 joola[m] Should we set this up ?
08:42:42 muff1nman[m] Okay, what do you want to talk about first
08:42:49 joola[m] Let's get the rebrand done
08:43:08 joola[m] Would like to get 6.3 out asap
08:43:17 joola[m] And purge all libresonic stuff out !
08:43:28 muff1nman[m] So the rebrand I think just needs a PR to swap out all the assets
08:43:44 joola[m] Yeah i can do this but we need to get the icon/log vote done
08:43:53 joola[m] logo*
08:44:09 muff1nman[m] Ya, do you think we actually need a vote?
08:44:43 muff1nman[m] I think there was some good consensus on going for the blue clould
08:44:50 muff1nman[m] Cloud*
08:44:54 joola[m] Yeah i agree
08:45:09 muff1nman[m] Only thing is how to integrate it with the text if at all
08:46:11 joola[m] I don't like much with the texte in it !
08:46:19 joola[m] the texte should be smaller or something
08:46:59 joola[m] uploaded an image: icon_blue_cloud.svg (6KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/jeYZtNumpvUYCwlUlAfisfbM>
08:47:07 joola[m] What do you think of this ?
08:47:31 muff1nman[m] I like the original one better
08:47:49 joola[m] I mean the waves are looking better
08:48:06 muff1nman[m] I think they wrap too much in that last one
08:48:27 muff1nman[m] And aren't quite as nice proportion wise
08:51:12 muff1nman[m] I think we have a good base idea tho. At this point I think we can create a PR with some screen shots and go from there
08:51:45 muff1nman[m] Or do you want to finalize the logo now?
08:51:58 joola[m] If we can yeah
08:52:52 joola[m] And what about the logo ?
08:53:01 muff1nman[m] What if we put the icon just to the left of the text?
08:53:20 muff1nman[m] And made the icon about the same size
08:53:29 muff1nman[m] Just taking a look at Reddit for example
08:53:47 muff1nman[m] They have an icon that's separate from the Reddit name
08:54:25 joola[m] Yeah
08:54:50 joola[m] So we have a logo ( icons + brand name )
08:54:56 joola[m] And a icon
08:55:34 joola[m] About the brand name we can do like libresonic ?
08:56:25 muff1nman[m] The one with blue and black text
08:56:32 muff1nman[m] That one seems fine to me
08:56:44 muff1nman[m] As long as the blue matches the blue in the cloud ;)
08:58:23 joola[m] What do you think of this :
08:58:42 joola[m] uploaded an image: last.png (38KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/lDAysUyOKlNCFAbpNJfnLtah>
08:58:49 muff1nman[m] yep
08:58:54 muff1nman[m] good
08:59:04 muff1nman[m] I like that quite a bit
08:59:10 joola[m] bigger icon ?
08:59:47 muff1nman[m] hm, only thing I can think of
08:59:56 muff1nman[m] is that the waves dont really match the font
09:00:08 muff1nman[m] too narrow perhaps?
09:00:09 muff1nman[m] not sure
09:00:49 muff1nman[m] but i like it
09:01:15 joola[m] uploaded an image: last.png (40KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/EImrswyAUhbYIZZHJcIaOrmL>
09:01:31 muff1nman[m] bit bigger icon i take it?
09:01:43 muff1nman[m] i think the size matches a bit better
09:02:03 muff1nman[m] I like it quite a bit tho
09:02:12 muff1nman[m] what do you think?
09:02:21 joola[m] uploaded an image: last.png (41KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/EYYKVHnKEJFljnmhRTQIyuhb>
09:03:00 muff1nman[m] either the second or last one is good
09:04:06 muff1nman[m] are you happy with one of those?
09:05:06 joola[m] Yeah the main idea i like it but need some more size tweaks
09:05:12 joola[m] uploaded an image: last.png (41KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/RecbPzXnnkgBTrSXYUBtaNxy>
09:05:35 muff1nman[m] cant tell the difference :P
09:05:43 muff1nman[m] on that last one
09:05:45 joola[m] Ah yeah right ...
09:05:52 joola[m] uploaded an image: last.png (44KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/wRxnHspMAxONjHLXNTdmSrdv>
09:06:06 muff1nman[m] hmm perhaps too big of an icon
09:06:34 joola[m] So 17:02 is good ? ( UTC +1 )
09:06:53 muff1nman[m] ya
09:07:10 muff1nman[m] i think it will take putting it into the code to see how it fits
09:07:19 muff1nman[m] and make any tweaks as necessary then
09:07:24 joola[m] I think it will be good !
09:07:25 muff1nman[m] but i think the overall idea is pretty solid
09:07:29 muff1nman[m] ya!
09:07:38 joola[m] So this will be done by tonight
09:07:38 muff1nman[m] so next topic
09:07:39 muff1nman[m] ?
09:07:44 muff1nman[m] okay cool
09:07:47 muff1nman[m] next topic?
09:07:50 joola[m] Yup
09:08:06 muff1nman[m] how about what needs to go in 6.3
09:08:38 joola[m] I though we will do the rebranding in 6.3 and any next enhancement goes into 6.4
09:09:08 muff1nman[m] well the thing to keep in mind is how our branches are currently setup
09:09:32 muff1nman[m] which i think i should explain my thought process on the branching real fast
09:09:53 muff1nman[m] My thought was is that one branch is easier to manage than two
09:10:00 muff1nman[m] stable/develop vs master
09:10:19 muff1nman[m] but we can keep the good things about the stable branch around by using release branches
09:10:27 muff1nman[m] where patches/backports go
09:10:37 muff1nman[m] so master would basically be the main develop branch
09:10:55 muff1nman[m] and we would do releases directly from that branch
09:11:08 muff1nman[m] if we thought we needed a patch
09:11:15 muff1nman[m] like 6.3.1
09:11:24 muff1nman[m] we would create a 6.3.x branch
09:11:26 muff1nman[m] and patch in there
09:11:40 muff1nman[m] so to get how this relates to 6.3
09:11:56 muff1nman[m] The 6.3 release needs to be done from the current master branch
09:12:17 muff1nman[m] because thats where the rebranding and renaming effort is so far
09:12:34 muff1nman[m] but it also has other improvements that were in the libreosnic develop branch
09:12:41 muff1nman[m] like the mediaelement player
09:13:04 muff1nman[m] so im hesitant about just doing the rebrand and then releasing it
09:13:38 muff1nman[m] as I think there are a couple more things we could do mostly in regard to mediaelement to ensure its a solid release
09:13:58 muff1nman[m] and something people will be able to distinguish from libresonic
09:14:08 joola[m] Yeah ok
09:14:10 muff1nman[m] even if its mainly the mediaelement player from a ui perspective
09:14:40 joola[m] I get the point that is difficult to split the renaming from the current enhancement
09:15:04 joola[m] Only thing that i don't like is that i don't think that the current html5 player is stable
09:15:24 muff1nman[m] have you tried it much?
09:15:35 joola[m] No I have the feeling like it
09:15:57 muff1nman[m] i actually was thinking the same until i started trying it
09:16:08 muff1nman[m] and would almost say its more stable than the current one
09:16:09 muff1nman[m] :P
09:16:17 joola[m] Ah ok
09:16:25 muff1nman[m] but there are some things that still need doing
09:16:26 muff1nman[m] https://github.com/airsonic/airsonic/issues/448
09:16:29 joola[m] Well ok if you say that i think we are good to do like you sayd
09:16:37 muff1nman[m] i dont think we need to do everything in that checklist
09:16:57 muff1nman[m] But I think the biggest ones we should do are:
09:17:04 muff1nman[m] - styling
09:17:10 muff1nman[m] - update external player
09:17:23 muff1nman[m] - remove jwplayer sources
09:17:46 muff1nman[m] id be nice, but I dont think we have enough time to add the full screen control functionality
09:17:56 muff1nman[m] and that really only impacts videos
09:18:01 joola[m] what if we make it smoothly and make 6.3 6.4 6.5 until we get a fully html5 player working and then release the 7.0 ?
09:18:09 joola[m] So we can now already release 6.3
09:18:29 joola[m] which have html5 player ( HEHE not libresonic, this will get people with use )
09:18:49 muff1nman[m] well again, everything is already mingled in the master branch
09:19:04 muff1nman[m] so what would 6.3 have in it and where would we cut it from?
09:19:06 joola[m] Yeah yeah but as you sayd not the CSS styling and stuff
09:19:32 joola[m] We simply do a snapshot from master and release 6.3
09:19:48 joola[m] and any further enhacement will ake a release !
09:19:53 joola[m] make **
09:20:02 muff1nman[m] i guess i feel if we pull in https://github.com/airsonic/airsonic/pull/496
09:20:17 muff1nman[m] and give me a bit of time to see if i can update the external player
09:20:25 muff1nman[m] we would have a quite solid release
09:20:29 joola[m] Yeah
09:20:36 muff1nman[m] i know #457 isnt perfect
09:20:45 muff1nman[m] cause it could use transparent css
09:21:14 joola[m] I think you're right
09:21:21 muff1nman[m] and perhaps even do larger changes like SuperNerd-James was talking about
09:21:33 muff1nman[m] but those things can wait for 6.4 or whatever
09:21:36 joola[m] after having the thml5 player we will have more feddback from libresonic users
09:21:41 muff1nman[m] exactly
09:22:04 muff1nman[m] its all about striking a balance between releasing often and having something users will like
09:22:06 muff1nman[m] :)
09:22:35 joola[m] Yeah i was more thinking about splitting rebrand and enhancement
09:23:00 muff1nman[m] ya i just wouldnt like to do that with the current state of master
09:23:18 muff1nman[m] perhaps we should of kept the mediaelement stuff in separate pr
09:23:21 muff1nman[m] till it was actually done
09:23:37 muff1nman[m] but my fear back then is that it wouldnt ever get done if we didnt pull it in back then
09:23:39 muff1nman[m] but oh well
09:23:44 muff1nman[m] its water under the bridge at this point
09:23:54 joola[m] :p
09:23:59 joola[m] Yeah fine
09:24:26 muff1nman[m] so perhaps give me a week to make sure mediaelement is good to go
09:24:31 joola[m] Yeah
09:24:35 muff1nman[m] and ill continue testing master
09:24:43 muff1nman[m] to see if i can find any blatant things
09:25:05 muff1nman[m] and hopefully we can cut a release either next weekend or the one after
09:25:12 muff1nman[m] sound good?
09:25:16 joola[m] Yeah
09:25:27 joola[m] only thinkg that i would like to change is master
09:25:31 joola[m] don't like the name
09:25:36 joola[m] Sound like stable to me
09:25:44 joola[m] Can't we rename it to develop ?
09:25:56 joola[m] And do like you sayd each branch is a release
09:25:58 muff1nman[m] master is the defacto branch name for git based development
09:26:05 joola[m] yeah i know
09:26:05 muff1nman[m] anything else is non standard and confusing :P
09:26:30 joola[m] well ok let's keep it like this
09:26:46 muff1nman[m] so do we want to keep the versioning scheme?
09:26:52 muff1nman[m] i.e. next one is 6.3?
09:27:02 joola[m] no
09:27:08 joola[m] I would like to do 6.3.0
09:27:08 muff1nman[m] or do we want to reset it and do like a 10.0
09:27:27 muff1nman[m] sure 6.3.0 is fine
09:27:40 joola[m] what will be better if we get 10.0.0 ?
09:28:01 muff1nman[m] only reason to do 10.0.0 is to separate our versioning from libresonic
09:28:04 muff1nman[m] and subsonic
09:28:17 muff1nman[m] kinda like the mariadb folks did when they forked mysql
09:28:25 muff1nman[m] i dont really think its necessary tho
09:28:41 joola[m] I think its necessary
09:28:47 muff1nman[m] because airsonic is such a user focused software that other things dont really depend on
09:28:55 muff1nman[m] im fine either way
09:29:22 muff1nman[m] so call the next one 10.0.0?
09:29:27 joola[m] poeple will see the 10.1.3 release and say OOOH fuck what happend here and they will take alook :
09:29:53 muff1nman[m] haha, yep thats one advantage of disjointing the release numbers
09:30:06 muff1nman[m] is that it keeps people from associating the two together
09:30:20 muff1nman[m] or making version comparisions between airsonic and friend
09:30:22 muff1nman[m] friends
09:30:28 joola[m] ( like nextcloud though )
09:30:42 muff1nman[m] did they also change the version numbers when they forked?
09:30:46 joola[m] Yeha
09:30:48 joola[m] Yeha
09:30:54 joola[m] yeahù
09:30:55 joola[m] fuck
09:30:57 joola[m] yeah*
09:31:01 muff1nman[m] haha
09:31:12 muff1nman[m] okay so i think thats settled then, 10.0.0 it will be
09:31:23 joola[m] OK fine !
09:31:48 joola[m] Should we set some dates for futures milestones ?
09:31:52 muff1nman[m] cool, ,anything else we need to cover?
09:32:06 muff1nman[m] well im not a huge fan of dates
09:32:07 joola[m] (( Yeah i had some morepoint but just fogot them .. ))
09:32:31 muff1nman[m] im more of the opinion we should release when it makes sense
09:33:10 muff1nman[m] and i think we'd never end up hitting the dates
09:33:18 muff1nman[m] we didnt hit the date for 6.2 in libresonic
09:33:35 muff1nman[m] and i think eugene set a date of july 4 for 6.3 and we missed that too
09:33:50 muff1nman[m] so i think we should keep from making empty promises
09:34:03 joola[m] Actuellay its not for us but for users who wait for next release
09:34:07 joola[m] So they have some ideas
09:34:25 joola[m] Not promises but ideas !
09:34:36 muff1nman[m] i know its for the users, but im just saying that we have no good way to estimate dates
09:34:46 joola[m] Yeah sure
09:34:59 joola[m] So no dates, i'm fine with this
09:35:02 joola[m] What about the API ?
09:35:21 joola[m] Should we create an issue to upgrade to subsonic API 1.15 ?
09:35:28 muff1nman[m] thats done
09:35:31 joola[m] Current is 1.13 right ?
09:35:32 muff1nman[m] and merged in master already
09:35:34 muff1nman[m] :P
09:35:46 joola[m] Oh fuck didn't saw this
09:35:59 joola[m] Is it working ?
09:36:03 muff1nman[m] hehe
09:36:05 joola[m] Library scan  ?
09:36:09 muff1nman[m] yep
09:36:14 joola[m] Nice !
09:36:33 joola[m] So we need to update  the docs with the new API version number
09:36:37 muff1nman[m] but the larger work to implement an airsonic specific api will have to wait
09:36:53 joola[m] Yeah yeah but we currenlty don't have any needs for it right ?
09:36:56 muff1nman[m] currently im paused on deciding how best to go about it
09:37:08 muff1nman[m] i think its holding up some major things
09:37:11 muff1nman[m] like removing dwr
09:37:26 muff1nman[m] and improving some of the jsp stuff
09:37:40 muff1nman[m] also the new ui effort biconou wanted to work on
09:37:43 muff1nman[m] would need it
09:37:47 joola[m] I don't know how it works but can't we keep the subsonic API as frontedn and remove dwr and refactor the backend ?
09:38:28 muff1nman[m] So you have to remember DWR is basically an entirely separate api almost
09:38:42 muff1nman[m] the frontend uses DWR, not the subsonic api to interact with the backend
09:39:07 muff1nman[m] which is quite silly in my mind
09:39:36 muff1nman[m] it would be better if the current code used the REST subsonic api
09:39:58 muff1nman[m] but since its probably missing some calls and what not, we would add them to the airsonic api
09:40:09 muff1nman[m] so that way we keep the subsonic api in sync as much as possible with subsonic
09:40:31 joola[m] OK
09:40:36 muff1nman[m] the idea is to completely separate frontend from backend
09:40:42 muff1nman[m] that DWR crap makes them quite intertwined
09:40:45 joola[m] Yeah that's a great idea !
09:40:50 joola[m] OK
09:41:06 muff1nman[m] but all of that work will probably have to wait until after 6.3.0
09:41:12 joola[m] :p
09:41:17 muff1nman[m] but at least 6.3.0 will be subsonic 15.0 compatible
09:41:25 muff1nman[m] except for a couple of minor things
09:41:37 muff1nman[m] which are documented in an airsonic issue somewhere
09:41:44 joola[m] Could we get a scheme of airsonic frontendbackend and systems that are mixed up in the middle ?
09:42:06 muff1nman[m] https://github.com/airsonic/airsonic/issues/461
09:42:11 muff1nman[m] has the list of differences
09:42:22 muff1nman[m] not sure what you mean
09:42:56 joola[m] I wuold like to have a draw of the current structure of airsonic and what we would like to do
09:43:05 joola[m] so split the front from the backend
09:44:02 muff1nman[m] so we have two major lines of work
09:44:16 muff1nman[m] one is to keep improving on the current frontend where it makes sense
09:44:19 joola[m] Those documents could help future helpers maintainers to help us
09:44:25 muff1nman[m] and the other is to implement an entirely new frontend
09:44:32 joola[m] Yeha
09:45:02 muff1nman[m] the ui work would be entirely separate for those two efforts, but the backend work is intermingled
09:45:23 muff1nman[m] i.e. the new airsonic api
09:45:25 muff1nman[m] would help both
09:45:45 muff1nman[m] the DWR removal isnt necessary for a new ui
09:46:16 muff1nman[m] but would help because it would make it so we can potentially use the same REST interfaces
09:46:35 muff1nman[m] as of right now all the DWR stuff would be pretty unusuable in a new ui
09:46:46 muff1nman[m] does that clarify a bit?
09:48:39 joola[m] Yeah a lot
09:48:59 muff1nman[m] cool
09:49:08 muff1nman[m] so should we adjourn?
09:49:18 muff1nman[m] was planning on copying the meeting logs to reddit btw
09:49:59 joola[m] Ok
09:50:17 joola[m] Ah give me 2 minutes i'll tell if i have some more question
09:50:37 muff1nman[m] haha okay
09:52:55 joola[m] Yeah, do you have any contact in a press hackers website ?
09:53:06 joola[m] If after we release 10.0
09:53:33 joola[m] we can have an articles that explains th forking from libresonic and our main goals it woul dbe great
09:53:56 joola[m] https://www.itsfullofstars.de/2016/05/rip-subsonic-hello-libresonic/
09:53:59 joola[m] Something like this
09:54:11 joola[m] RIP Libresonic Hello Airsonic
09:54:14 joola[m] :p
09:55:09 muff1nman[m] hm
09:55:17 joola[m] That was a point from the Rebranding effort
09:55:46 muff1nman[m] ya would probably be good especially so we can post it to things like hackerne.ws
09:56:12 muff1nman[m] perhaps i could see about creating a medium post
09:59:12 joola[m] Ok great
09:59:22 joola[m] I think we are good for today
09:59:29 joola[m] I'l create logo PR
09:59:44 muff1nman[m] cool, and ill get to work on ensuring mediaelement is good to go
09:59:47 joola[m] Set the next release number in milestones
10:00:01 muff1nman[m] 6.3.0 instead of 6.3?
10:00:06 joola[m] Naaa
10:00:10 joola[m] 10.0.0
10:00:13 muff1nman[m] oh right 10.0.0
10:00:17 muff1nman[m] i already forgot :P