nerdstein/gist:13e7acbe233546c03d9ae7e3cf8b9ffa

## gistfile1.txt
Key takeaways:

0. i have seen some etiquette guides that have example interactions

1. Giving people guidelines on how to give feedback, for example, in the issue queues needs to be right in peoples faces as they are giving that feedback. It helps them do a better job.

2. When you flag someone's post in various ways carefully scripted messages get put up that are designed to encourage positive behavior

3. we could do more to help onboard new members and provide them with resources to help navigate the community. other communities have clearer documentation for getting started: https://kubernetes.io/community/ and https://kubernetes.io/docs/tutorials/stateless-application/hello-minikube/; And I would respectfully suggest a section of d.o really isn't good enough. It needs to be the right messages in the right place throughout our infrastructure

4. celebrate success (through recognition system?) when people improve. It's not enough just to tell people off all the time.

5. who in the community would perform this. it sounds like it would be self-monitored and we would just ask other community members to interact with specific interactions; enhancements to d.o and automation; allow the previous person to mark the reply as "helpful"; My understanding is that would mostly be dev workflow and issue queues.

6. Drupal Association efforts may overlap with governance initiatives. Members should review https://www.drupal.org/drupalorg/roadmap/community-initiatives and https://www.drupal.org/drupalorg/roadmap

7. The worst place on the internet /r/poiltics puts this above their comment forms "In general, be courteous to others. Attack ideas, not users. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, and other incivility violations can result in a permanent ban." Keep it short and simple.

8. regarding the issue queue commenting, don't forget the forums. they still exist. so it isnt just an issue commenting concern. gdo too. We should also include other community spaces like Slack, IRC, and in-person events

Transcript:
nerdstein [10:02 AM]
:zero: Welcome to this meeting to discuss Drupal Community Governance! This is one of a series of meetings we are holding in this channel to connect people who are interested in governance with each other, provide a forum for people to share their thoughts, and empower the community to determine the next steps. Additional background can be found at: https://www.drupal.org/association/blog/evolving-community-governance-survey-results-and-a-call-to-action
Drupal.org
Evolving Community Governance - Survey Results and a Call to Action
October 23, 2017: Additional meetings have been scheduled in Slack and IRC. Please consult the schedule for more details.  These results and analysis were initially presented at the DrupalCon Vienna community summit on September 25, 2017.
Sep 25th at 12:19 PM


[10:02]
:one: This meeting is text-only. There is no audio or video component.

[10:02]
:two: The entire slack transcript will be recorded and available after this meeting. Threads not included.  This means that we’ll be copying and pasting the chat, including usernames, and pasting it into a gist (or other format) to be linked at the bottom of the scheduling google doc - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jDNAoZtU4S6hrAA6BlS3Fhx6Js4pWLvrRBNDr_0ySA8/edit?ts=59ce7f2c#


[10:03]
:three: Please remember that this is a Drupal space, and is also subject to the Drupal Code of Conduct: https://www.drupal.org/dcoc
Drupal.org
Drupal Code of Conduct
As our community grows, it is imperative that we preserve the things that got us here; namely, keeping Drupal a fun, welcoming, challenging, and fair place to play. The Drupal Code of Conduct (DCOC) states our shared ideals with respect to conduct. Think of this as coding standards for people. It is an expression of our ideals, not a rulebook. It is a way to communicate our existing values to the entire community. This code of conduct is based on the one developed by Ubuntu, with the addition of Show more…
Aug 27th, 2010 at 10:11 AM


[10:03]
:four: If you feel uncomfortable sharing publicly in this space, you can DM me

nerdstein [10:03 AM]
If you’re participating in this meeting, please respond to this thread with your name and a brief note about why you are here today.
  +1 7 replies Last reply today at 10:23 AM View thread


nerdstein [10:08 AM]
Does anyone have any questions or discussions to get us started?

nerdstein [10:13 AM]
I had a question to move things along... Have you appreciated any governance practices or communication tools from other communities (open source or not)?

[10:13]
Especially with regards to something Drupal should consider

acrosman
[10:18 AM]
I have a friend – and form Drupal active community participant – comment to me recently about the need for the community to be plain nicer when dealing with new users/members. And suggested we try to find ways to push back when we see RTFM responses and other similar things done with new users.

nerdstein [10:19 AM]
@acrosman i had some similar discussions recently at BADCamp

acrosman
[10:19 AM]
It got me thinking about how much of StackExchange is designed to encourage positive interactions, and how much D.o's design accidentally can encourage frustrations early in interactions.


nerdstein [10:20 AM]
one idea that was posed was also etiquette guidelines that might complement the CoC

[10:20]
@acrosman how does SE design differ from D.O design?

gdemet [10:22 AM]
One suggestion that came up in the community discussions at Vienna was that when someone joins drupal.org, we could do more to help onboard new members and provide them with resources to help navigate the community. We could also tie into a CRM system to send out additional emails when people do certain things (participate in an issue, submit code, etc.)


rachel_norfolk
[10:23 AM]
I was shown some of the etiquette guidelines in the Facebook "github equivalent". Basically - they are right there where the input box is. It made total sense.


nerdstein [10:23 AM]
i also think other communities have clearer documentation for getting started: https://kubernetes.io/community/ and https://kubernetes.io/docs/tutorials/stateless-application/hello-minikube/
Kubernetes
Community
Production-Grade Container Orchestration
 Kubernetes
Hello Minikube
Production-Grade Container Orchestration


acrosman
[10:23 AM]
First, I'm going to start by acknowledging that D.O is way older and serves a bunch of unrelated functions so not everything (maybe nothing) can be copied. But that said, back when they were doing the podcasts before they launched SE Jeff and Joel spent several rounds debating tweaks to the reputation system to encourage positive behavior and discourage negative.  Nothing about D.O does that without human intervention. (edited)


nicklewisatx [10:24 AM]
That would be good, when someone is called out as rude, you can just point them to the checkbox they agreed to.


rachel_norfolk
[10:24 AM]
But also to resources from which they can improve. It's not enough to say "bad person"


gdemet [10:25 AM]
"When you said X, that made me feel Y"


nerdstein [10:25 AM]
i have seen some etiquette guides that have example interactions


acrosman [10:26 AM]
I agree with @rachel_norfolk that you need more than to slap wrists.  Again, it's one of the things that got cooked into SE and has evolved over time.  When you flag someone's post in various ways carefully scripted messages get put up that are designed to encourage positive behavior


rachel_norfolk
[10:26 AM]
Giving people guidelines on how to give feedback, for example, in the issue queues needs to be right in peoples faces as they are giving that feedback. It helps them do a better job.


acrosman [10:26 AM]
So you don't rely on the people doing calling out to get the words right, and provide the person getting feedback with direction to go forward in a positive way.


gdemet [10:26 AM]
especially for people for whom English may be a second language


nerdstein [10:27 AM]
Flagging posts is an interesting idea.


rachel_norfolk [10:27 AM]
And then celebrate success (through recognition system?) when people improve. It's not enough just to tell people off all the time. It doesn't work


nerdstein [10:28 AM]
I believe Stack Overflow does this both through their user profiles and upvoting of responses


rachel_norfolk [10:29 AM]
Also, just because we think something is not perfect (like celebrating someone doing something they "should" know how to do anyway) doesn't mean we should not do it if it can be shown to work. I'd rather let some principles slip than never fix the issue


nerdstein [10:29 AM]
that may be more "reputation" than "recognition"


rachel_norfolk [10:29 AM]
reputation and recognition are vaguely related


nerdstein [10:30 AM]
i am also curious who in the community would perform this. it sounds like it would be self-monitored and we would just ask other community members to interact with specific interactions.


gdemet [10:31 AM]
Something like this would need resources and support


[10:31]
(IMO)


rachel_norfolk [10:31 AM]
An example of guidelines above on issue queus would be the "shit sandwich" system - explain in the comment field help text how to praise what they have done so far, explain what needs to improve, and then where to learn how to improve it. Thsi is text that is written once but appears on every single issue comment form


[10:32]
Then (only) allow the previous person to mark the reply as "helpful"


nerdstein [10:32 AM]
@gdemet at a minimum, enhancements to d.o and automation


rachel_norfolk
[10:32 AM]
and those enhancements are under construction, I believe


[10:33]
or at least, evaluation


nerdstein [10:33 AM]
@rachel_norfolk is that discussion occurring somewhere publicly to get input?


rachel_norfolk [10:33 AM]
there's an issue in the drupal_org project, I believe? I think they are only at the evaluating systems stage atm


[10:34]
Basically, do we sell our souls to GitHub, BitBucket or GitLab :wink:


[10:34]
But governance's interest is once a tech is chosen

acrosman
[10:35 AM]
My understanding is that would mostly be dev workflow and issue queues. But that still leaves it hard to people to know where to ask basic questions and get started.


gdemet [10:35 AM]
@nerdstein @rachel_norfolk https://www.drupal.org/drupalorg/blog
Drupal.org
Drupal.org blog
News and updates from Drupal.org team.
Jan 22nd, 2016 at 12:15 PM


rachel_norfolk
[10:35 AM]
yeah


nicklewisatx [10:35 AM]
The drupal.org database is a beast... you'd be surprised how easily adding simple functionality can bring the thing crashing down. So they tend to need to a lot of extra work for features like this.


gdemet [10:36 AM]
IIRC @hestenet did a presentation on the d.o roadmap at Vienna


[10:36]
https://www.drupal.org/drupalorg/roadmap
Drupal.org
Drupal.org Roadmap
Drupal is one of the largest open source communities in the world. Each year Drupal.org and its sub-sites serve millions of visitors, and thousands of active contributors. It is one of the largest continuously operating Drupal sites in the world. And because of that, it has 15 years of legacy content and features. At this scale, it's impossible to make real improvements to Drupal.org without a prioritized roadmap, focusing on a few, high impact features at a time. This is our roadmap.
Feb 1st, 2016 at 9:09 AM


rachel_norfolk
[10:36 AM]
But the governance question here is about how we influence the wording on the d.o website in many places to encourage +ve behaviour. Not tech as such


nerdstein [10:37 AM]
@rachel_norfolk agreed, it suggests some governance practices, policy, and maybe complementary tools thereafter


gdemet [10:37 AM]
https://www.drupal.org/drupalorg/roadmap/community-initiatives
Drupal.org
Drupal.org Community Initiatives
All of the initiatives for Drupal.org ultimately come from the needs of the community. Most of those initiatives are based on our user research and strategic planning for the website and infrastructure, conversations with core maintainers, the advice of key community members, or input from the board of directors. However, other initiatives are put forward directly by small teams of community members, especially when those community members are willing to be a part of implementing the initiative and Show more…
Feb 1st, 2016 at 6:19 PM


[10:37]
^^ where the community can make suggestions


rachel_norfolk
[10:37 AM]
And I would respectfully suggest a section of d.o really isn't good enough. It needs to be the right messages in the right place throughout our infrastructure


nerdstein [10:38 AM]
i agree, i think it's substantially more.


[10:38]
Please note: I will be closing down the transcript in approximately 20 minutes from now.


[10:39]
I will also provide a note with 5 minutes left and follow up with voting of key takeaways I am capturing.


nicklewisatx [10:39 AM]
The worst place on the internet /r/poiltics puts this above their comment forms "In general, be courteous to others. Attack ideas, not users. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, and other incivility violations can result in a permanent ban." Keep it short and simple.


acrosman [10:40 AM]
To @nicklewisatx's point about the database: I've long suspected that D.O needs to be pulled into more pieces than it is so the whole thing could be sustained more reasonably.  Bringing the whole thing down in the process of making it better would be a big step in the wrong direction.


nerdstein [10:40 AM]
that could be explored a potential amendment to the CoC (in some form, i believe we already have some articulation of similar motivations)


acrosman [10:40 AM]
But all that takes time and resources the community has struggled to find.


rachel_norfolk
[10:40 AM]
I'm going to ask my contact in Facebook if they can take a screenshot of that tiny bit of text they have


nerdstein [10:41 AM]
@acrosman we could research the links that @gdemet posted for any optimization tasks. this could be community led and many community members have experience optimizing large scale drupal systems


[10:43]
please note, i'd speculate that there is likely a better channel/forum for discussing improvements to drupal.org that may be out of the context of this channel


[10:45]
To shift gears slightly, we have talked about etiquette guides. I am curious _what_ that would cover. We discussed interactions on issue queues above. What other community engagement might something apply to?


nerdstein [10:53 AM]
Does anyone else have any questions, comments from the above discussion, or anything else on their mind?


[10:53]
We will be wrapping up in approximately 7 minutes.


[10:58]
Aside from Stack Overflow, does anyone else have other communities they think are doing cool governance-related things?


davidhernandez
[11:00 AM]
regarding the issue queue commenting, don't forget the forums. they still exist. so it isnt just an issue commenting concern. gdo too.


nerdstein [11:00 AM]
good point.


[11:00]
those are certainly other things that might be covered by an etiquette guide.


[11:01]
Would people be comfortable if I close the meeting and compile the key findings for a vote?


rachel_norfolk [11:01 AM]
:thumbsup:


new messages
gdemet [11:01 AM]
We should also include other community spaces like Slack, IRC, and in-person events


acrosman [11:02 AM]
I agree that in-person needs something similar, but in-person and online interactions are different enough that one guide probably doesn't cover both.
	Key takeaways:

	0. i have seen some etiquette guides that have example interactions

	1. Giving people guidelines on how to give feedback, for example, in the issue queues needs to be right in peoples faces as they are giving that feedback. It helps them do a better job.

	2. When you flag someone's post in various ways carefully scripted messages get put up that are designed to encourage positive behavior

	3. we could do more to help onboard new members and provide them with resources to help navigate the community. other communities have clearer documentation for getting started: https://kubernetes.io/community/ and https://kubernetes.io/docs/tutorials/stateless-application/hello-minikube/; And I would respectfully suggest a section of d.o really isn't good enough. It needs to be the right messages in the right place throughout our infrastructure

	4. celebrate success (through recognition system?) when people improve. It's not enough just to tell people off all the time.

	5. who in the community would perform this. it sounds like it would be self-monitored and we would just ask other community members to interact with specific interactions; enhancements to d.o and automation; allow the previous person to mark the reply as "helpful"; My understanding is that would mostly be dev workflow and issue queues.

	6. Drupal Association efforts may overlap with governance initiatives. Members should review https://www.drupal.org/drupalorg/roadmap/community-initiatives and https://www.drupal.org/drupalorg/roadmap

	7. The worst place on the internet /r/poiltics puts this above their comment forms "In general, be courteous to others. Attack ideas, not users. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, and other incivility violations can result in a permanent ban." Keep it short and simple.

	8. regarding the issue queue commenting, don't forget the forums. they still exist. so it isnt just an issue commenting concern. gdo too. We should also include other community spaces like Slack, IRC, and in-person events

	Transcript:
	nerdstein [10:02 AM]
	:zero: Welcome to this meeting to discuss Drupal Community Governance! This is one of a series of meetings we are holding in this channel to connect people who are interested in governance with each other, provide a forum for people to share their thoughts, and empower the community to determine the next steps. Additional background can be found at: https://www.drupal.org/association/blog/evolving-community-governance-survey-results-and-a-call-to-action
	Drupal.org
	Evolving Community Governance - Survey Results and a Call to Action
	October 23, 2017: Additional meetings have been scheduled in Slack and IRC. Please consult the schedule for more details. These results and analysis were initially presented at the DrupalCon Vienna community summit on September 25, 2017.
	Sep 25th at 12:19 PM


	[10:02]
	:one: This meeting is text-only. There is no audio or video component.

	[10:02]
	:two: The entire slack transcript will be recorded and available after this meeting. Threads not included. This means that we’ll be copying and pasting the chat, including usernames, and pasting it into a gist (or other format) to be linked at the bottom of the scheduling google doc - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jDNAoZtU4S6hrAA6BlS3Fhx6Js4pWLvrRBNDr_0ySA8/edit?ts=59ce7f2c#


	[10:03]
	:three: Please remember that this is a Drupal space, and is also subject to the Drupal Code of Conduct: https://www.drupal.org/dcoc
	Drupal.org
	Drupal Code of Conduct
	As our community grows, it is imperative that we preserve the things that got us here; namely, keeping Drupal a fun, welcoming, challenging, and fair place to play. The Drupal Code of Conduct (DCOC) states our shared ideals with respect to conduct. Think of this as coding standards for people. It is an expression of our ideals, not a rulebook. It is a way to communicate our existing values to the entire community. This code of conduct is based on the one developed by Ubuntu, with the addition of Show more…
	Aug 27th, 2010 at 10:11 AM


	[10:03]
	:four: If you feel uncomfortable sharing publicly in this space, you can DM me

	nerdstein [10:03 AM]
	If you’re participating in this meeting, please respond to this thread with your name and a brief note about why you are here today.
	+1 7 replies Last reply today at 10:23 AM View thread


	nerdstein [10:08 AM]
	Does anyone have any questions or discussions to get us started?

	nerdstein [10:13 AM]
	I had a question to move things along... Have you appreciated any governance practices or communication tools from other communities (open source or not)?

	[10:13]
	Especially with regards to something Drupal should consider

	acrosman
	[10:18 AM]
	I have a friend – and form Drupal active community participant – comment to me recently about the need for the community to be plain nicer when dealing with new users/members. And suggested we try to find ways to push back when we see RTFM responses and other similar things done with new users.

	nerdstein [10:19 AM]
	@acrosman i had some similar discussions recently at BADCamp

	acrosman
	[10:19 AM]
	It got me thinking about how much of StackExchange is designed to encourage positive interactions, and how much D.o's design accidentally can encourage frustrations early in interactions.


	nerdstein [10:20 AM]
	one idea that was posed was also etiquette guidelines that might complement the CoC

	[10:20]
	@acrosman how does SE design differ from D.O design?

	gdemet [10:22 AM]
	One suggestion that came up in the community discussions at Vienna was that when someone joins drupal.org, we could do more to help onboard new members and provide them with resources to help navigate the community. We could also tie into a CRM system to send out additional emails when people do certain things (participate in an issue, submit code, etc.)



	rachel_norfolk
	[10:23 AM]
	I was shown some of the etiquette guidelines in the Facebook "github equivalent". Basically - they are right there where the input box is. It made total sense.


	nerdstein [10:23 AM]
	i also think other communities have clearer documentation for getting started: https://kubernetes.io/community/ and https://kubernetes.io/docs/tutorials/stateless-application/hello-minikube/
	Kubernetes
	Community
	Production-Grade Container Orchestration
	Kubernetes
	Hello Minikube
	Production-Grade Container Orchestration


	acrosman
	[10:23 AM]
	First, I'm going to start by acknowledging that D.O is way older and serves a bunch of unrelated functions so not everything (maybe nothing) can be copied. But that said, back when they were doing the podcasts before they launched SE Jeff and Joel spent several rounds debating tweaks to the reputation system to encourage positive behavior and discourage negative. Nothing about D.O does that without human intervention. (edited)



	nicklewisatx [10:24 AM]
	That would be good, when someone is called out as rude, you can just point them to the checkbox they agreed to.



	rachel_norfolk
	[10:24 AM]
	But also to resources from which they can improve. It's not enough to say "bad person"


	gdemet [10:25 AM]
	"When you said X, that made me feel Y"


	nerdstein [10:25 AM]
	i have seen some etiquette guides that have example interactions


	acrosman [10:26 AM]
	I agree with @rachel_norfolk that you need more than to slap wrists. Again, it's one of the things that got cooked into SE and has evolved over time. When you flag someone's post in various ways carefully scripted messages get put up that are designed to encourage positive behavior


	rachel_norfolk
	[10:26 AM]
	Giving people guidelines on how to give feedback, for example, in the issue queues needs to be right in peoples faces as they are giving that feedback. It helps them do a better job.



	acrosman [10:26 AM]
	So you don't rely on the people doing calling out to get the words right, and provide the person getting feedback with direction to go forward in a positive way.



	gdemet [10:26 AM]
	especially for people for whom English may be a second language



	nerdstein [10:27 AM]
	Flagging posts is an interesting idea.


	rachel_norfolk [10:27 AM]
	And then celebrate success (through recognition system?) when people improve. It's not enough just to tell people off all the time. It doesn't work


	nerdstein [10:28 AM]
	I believe Stack Overflow does this both through their user profiles and upvoting of responses


	rachel_norfolk [10:29 AM]
	Also, just because we think something is not perfect (like celebrating someone doing something they "should" know how to do anyway) doesn't mean we should not do it if it can be shown to work. I'd rather let some principles slip than never fix the issue


	nerdstein [10:29 AM]
	that may be more "reputation" than "recognition"


	rachel_norfolk [10:29 AM]
	reputation and recognition are vaguely related


	nerdstein [10:30 AM]
	i am also curious who in the community would perform this. it sounds like it would be self-monitored and we would just ask other community members to interact with specific interactions.


	gdemet [10:31 AM]
	Something like this would need resources and support


	[10:31]
	(IMO)


	rachel_norfolk [10:31 AM]
	An example of guidelines above on issue queus would be the "shit sandwich" system - explain in the comment field help text how to praise what they have done so far, explain what needs to improve, and then where to learn how to improve it. Thsi is text that is written once but appears on every single issue comment form


	[10:32]
	Then (only) allow the previous person to mark the reply as "helpful"


	nerdstein [10:32 AM]
	@gdemet at a minimum, enhancements to d.o and automation


	rachel_norfolk
	[10:32 AM]
	and those enhancements are under construction, I believe



	[10:33]
	or at least, evaluation


	nerdstein [10:33 AM]
	@rachel_norfolk is that discussion occurring somewhere publicly to get input?


	rachel_norfolk [10:33 AM]
	there's an issue in the drupal_org project, I believe? I think they are only at the evaluating systems stage atm


	[10:34]
	Basically, do we sell our souls to GitHub, BitBucket or GitLab :wink:


	[10:34]
	But governance's interest is once a tech is chosen

	acrosman
	[10:35 AM]
	My understanding is that would mostly be dev workflow and issue queues. But that still leaves it hard to people to know where to ask basic questions and get started.


	gdemet [10:35 AM]
	@nerdstein @rachel_norfolk https://www.drupal.org/drupalorg/blog
	Drupal.org
	Drupal.org blog
	News and updates from Drupal.org team.
	Jan 22nd, 2016 at 12:15 PM


	rachel_norfolk
	[10:35 AM]
	yeah


	nicklewisatx [10:35 AM]
	The drupal.org database is a beast... you'd be surprised how easily adding simple functionality can bring the thing crashing down. So they tend to need to a lot of extra work for features like this.



	gdemet [10:36 AM]
	IIRC @hestenet did a presentation on the d.o roadmap at Vienna


	[10:36]
	https://www.drupal.org/drupalorg/roadmap
	Drupal.org
	Drupal.org Roadmap
	Drupal is one of the largest open source communities in the world. Each year Drupal.org and its sub-sites serve millions of visitors, and thousands of active contributors. It is one of the largest continuously operating Drupal sites in the world. And because of that, it has 15 years of legacy content and features. At this scale, it's impossible to make real improvements to Drupal.org without a prioritized roadmap, focusing on a few, high impact features at a time. This is our roadmap.
	Feb 1st, 2016 at 9:09 AM


	rachel_norfolk
	[10:36 AM]
	But the governance question here is about how we influence the wording on the d.o website in many places to encourage +ve behaviour. Not tech as such


	nerdstein [10:37 AM]
	@rachel_norfolk agreed, it suggests some governance practices, policy, and maybe complementary tools thereafter


	gdemet [10:37 AM]
	https://www.drupal.org/drupalorg/roadmap/community-initiatives
	Drupal.org
	Drupal.org Community Initiatives
	All of the initiatives for Drupal.org ultimately come from the needs of the community. Most of those initiatives are based on our user research and strategic planning for the website and infrastructure, conversations with core maintainers, the advice of key community members, or input from the board of directors. However, other initiatives are put forward directly by small teams of community members, especially when those community members are willing to be a part of implementing the initiative and Show more…
	Feb 1st, 2016 at 6:19 PM


	[10:37]
	^^ where the community can make suggestions


	rachel_norfolk
	[10:37 AM]
	And I would respectfully suggest a section of d.o really isn't good enough. It needs to be the right messages in the right place throughout our infrastructure


	nerdstein [10:38 AM]
	i agree, i think it's substantially more.


	[10:38]
	Please note: I will be closing down the transcript in approximately 20 minutes from now.


	[10:39]
	I will also provide a note with 5 minutes left and follow up with voting of key takeaways I am capturing.


	nicklewisatx [10:39 AM]
	The worst place on the internet /r/poiltics puts this above their comment forms "In general, be courteous to others. Attack ideas, not users. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, and other incivility violations can result in a permanent ban." Keep it short and simple.



	acrosman [10:40 AM]
	To @nicklewisatx's point about the database: I've long suspected that D.O needs to be pulled into more pieces than it is so the whole thing could be sustained more reasonably. Bringing the whole thing down in the process of making it better would be a big step in the wrong direction.


	nerdstein [10:40 AM]
	that could be explored a potential amendment to the CoC (in some form, i believe we already have some articulation of similar motivations)


	acrosman [10:40 AM]
	But all that takes time and resources the community has struggled to find.


	rachel_norfolk
	[10:40 AM]
	I'm going to ask my contact in Facebook if they can take a screenshot of that tiny bit of text they have


	nerdstein [10:41 AM]
	@acrosman we could research the links that @gdemet posted for any optimization tasks. this could be community led and many community members have experience optimizing large scale drupal systems


	[10:43]
	please note, i'd speculate that there is likely a better channel/forum for discussing improvements to drupal.org that may be out of the context of this channel


	[10:45]
	To shift gears slightly, we have talked about etiquette guides. I am curious _what_ that would cover. We discussed interactions on issue queues above. What other community engagement might something apply to?


	nerdstein [10:53 AM]
	Does anyone else have any questions, comments from the above discussion, or anything else on their mind?


	[10:53]
	We will be wrapping up in approximately 7 minutes.


	[10:58]
	Aside from Stack Overflow, does anyone else have other communities they think are doing cool governance-related things?


	davidhernandez
	[11:00 AM]
	regarding the issue queue commenting, don't forget the forums. they still exist. so it isnt just an issue commenting concern. gdo too.



	nerdstein [11:00 AM]
	good point.


	[11:00]
	those are certainly other things that might be covered by an etiquette guide.


	[11:01]
	Would people be comfortable if I close the meeting and compile the key findings for a vote?


	rachel_norfolk [11:01 AM]
	:thumbsup:



	new messages
	gdemet [11:01 AM]
	We should also include other community spaces like Slack, IRC, and in-person events


	acrosman [11:02 AM]
	I agree that in-person needs something similar, but in-person and online interactions are different enough that one guide probably doesn't cover both.