1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,000 [BLANK_AUDIO]
2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:08,320 >> Thank you for flying up.
3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:09,720 I heard you were busy today.
4 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:11,000 >> It was a fun guy.
5 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:11,280 >> Yeah.
6 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:11,920 >> It's exciting.
7 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:13,040 >> Yeah, good, good.
8 00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:16,160 You'll explain dynamic island to me later.
9 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:16,760 I don't understand.
10 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:17,360 It's a great name.
11 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,040 It feels like it should be a reality show.
12 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,640 Nonetheless, I want to focus on Steve right now.
13 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:26,680 Obviously, these people need no introduction.
14 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,360 This is Lorraine and Johnny.
15 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,560 All well known for being such an important part of this journey.
16 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:40,760 So let's start by looking at some clips of Steve Jobs here at code at N All Things Day.
17 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:41,360 Go ahead.
18 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,000 [MUSIC]
19 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,360 >> Personal computer has been a pretty amazing thing and
20 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,760 that it's more into these different things over the years.
21 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,360 First, it was a hobbyist tool.
22 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,680 So then the age of productivity began and that's what really fueled a lot of the growth.
23 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:57,680 But then the internet came along.
24 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,680 All of a sudden, the next great age of the personal computer started.
25 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:07,680 We feel very strongly at Apple that there's a third great age of the personal computer coming.
26 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,960 It's where the personal computer becomes sorted that your digital hub.
27 00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:15,440 It's becoming the hub for your photography, your movies, your music obviously.
28 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,440 It's integral to our digital lifestyle.
29 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,360 [MUSIC]
30 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,360 No plans at the current time to make a tablet.
31 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:29,120 [MUSIC]
32 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,800 >> I think the digital hub has been a resurgence of relevance for the PC.
33 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,200 [MUSIC]
34 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,440 Our retail stores went from zero to a billion faster than anyone's ever done before.
35 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:40,840 Faster than yet.
36 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:42,120 I use the money on those stores.
37 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:42,960 No, we're making money.
38 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:44,840 [MUSIC]
39 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,360 >> Third business we're about to get in is about to have a phone.
40 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:48,600 >> About to have a phone?
41 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:49,640 >> I have no idea.
42 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:50,440 >> I'll send you one.
43 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:51,240 >> Thanks.
44 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,240 >> Best iPod we've ever made, by the way.
45 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:54,680 >> Best phone we've ever made too.
46 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,120 >> Yeah, that's great.
47 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,360 >> We've really revolutionized how you use a cell phone.
48 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,760 If it was nothing but a cell phone, it'd be really successful.
49 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,960 It's the internet in your pocket for the first time.
50 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:08,280 [MUSIC]
51 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,120 >> Generally, we were both the youngest guys in the room.
52 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,360 And now I'm the oldest guy in the room most of the time.
53 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,320 And that's why I love being here.
54 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,280 >> [LAUGH]
55 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,160 >> He just so known for his strength.
56 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,640 [MUSIC]
57 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:28,440 >> I have one of the best jobs in the world.
58 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,160 I'm incredibly lucky.
59 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,920 To hang around some of the most wonderful, brightest,
60 00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:38,560 committed people I've ever met in my life.
61 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:43,520 And together we get to play in the best sandbox I've ever seen and
62 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,840 try to build great products for people.
63 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,840 That's what keeps me going.
64 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,200 And it's what kept me going five years ago.
65 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,080 It's what kept me going 10 years ago.
66 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,600 When the doors were almost closed and it's what will keep me going,
67 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,600 five years from now, whatever happens.
68 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:03,760 There's nothing that makes my day more than getting an email from some random person
69 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,320 in the universe who just bought an iPad over in the UK and
70 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:13,240 tells me the story about how it's the coolest product they've ever brought home in their lives.
71 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:14,640 [MUSIC]
72 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:15,880 That's what keeps me going.
73 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,480 [MUSIC]
74 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:19,800 >> That's great, that was I think.
75 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:21,480 >> [APPLAUSE]
76 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,560 >> I think that was his last interview.
77 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,320 I think it was just before he died.
78 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,480 So let's talk about the current moment.
79 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:33,560 I would love each of you to reflect on how you can't guess what he was going to think or
80 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:34,080 anything else.
81 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,160 But what Steve would think of the current moment in your estimation?
82 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,960 Again, we don't know, obviously.
83 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:42,640 Tim, why don't we start with you?
84 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,920 >> The current moment at Apple or the current moment in the world?
85 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,160 >> In the world at Apple?
86 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:56,960 >> Well, I think at Apple, I believe in hope that he would be proud over a day like this,
87 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:05,440 where we bring out a lot of innovations that are very much on the principles that he laid out and
88 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:06,760 articulated so well.
89 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:15,480 I think the greater world he would be troubled by a lot of things that he sees,
90 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,400 the sort of the partisanship and the division in the world.
91 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:25,840 And but I think he would be happy that we're living up to the values that he talked about,
92 00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:30,760 some much like privacy, like protecting the environment.
93 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:38,440 These were core to him while we're keeping up innovation and
94 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:44,880 trying to give people something that enables them to do something they couldn't do
95 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:51,080 otherwise to give them tools to discover their own self and to change the world in their own way.
96 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:56,800 But I think, so I think it would be next.
97 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:02,920 And I hate to project kind of what he would think today, really don't like to do that.
98 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:08,760 But I think there are lots of challenges in the world today.
99 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:14,840 >> Lauren, it's true that there's a lot of things that we can do.
100 00:05:14,840 --> 00:05:22,440 That's an impossible hypothetical, but because we knew him so very well for a long time.
101 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:27,240 In many ways he inhabits each of us.
102 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:35,600 And for me, often the way I make sense of the world,
103 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:41,200 I have sort of the resonance of his voice in my head often.
104 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:48,480 He would be very disappointed with the political climate, I would say.
105 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:56,680 Not only the polarization, not only the fact that people are really coming to blows
106 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:05,160 within families and communities in our country, but also just that he loved our country so much.
107 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,320 He loved California so much, but he loved our country.
108 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,600 He loved the idea of America.
109 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:17,080 He loved what it allowed the individual and the communities to become.
110 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,600 He loved the unfetteredness of it.
111 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:26,800 He loved the personal freedoms and liberties, but also the connectedness and
112 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,280 responsibility for each other.
113 00:06:28,280 --> 00:06:35,520 It was very important to him to be able to give something back to the human experience.
114 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:42,000 And I think he would not be quiet about --
115 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:43,480 >> He'd be on Twitter?
116 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:44,880 >> Would he be on Twitter now?
117 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:50,960 He wasn't a big fan of social media, mainly because of the business model.
118 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,200 But he would not be on Twitter.
119 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:58,040 No, he would be speaking out easily and often.
120 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,160 >> Yeah. His emails and letters were like tweets though.
121 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:02,920 They were short and kind of sweet.
122 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,400 I remember when you introduced Ping.
123 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:07,240 Ping?
124 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:08,240 >> Ping.
125 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,400 >> That was some social network.
126 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:15,000 Yeah, he came out of the room.
127 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,240 He comes out after he gives his speech in the room where people are looking at things.
128 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,480 And he came and he goes, "What do you think?"
129 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:22,840 I said, "I think it sucks."
130 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,240 And he goes, "I think so."
131 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:26,360 Right away.
132 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,960 And he goes, "I hate social media," which was interesting.
133 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:30,720 And it wasn't because he was a social, I think like that.
134 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,720 He just couldn't figure it out.
135 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,080 Johnny, what do you think?
136 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,080 Not on that particular thing.
137 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:37,080 Because it did suck.
138 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:38,080 Go ahead.
139 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,480 >> It's certainly disappointed.
140 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,080 I don't know.
141 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:54,920 I could imagine being sort of mad/furious, but also combined with that sort of compassion
142 00:07:54,920 --> 00:08:00,120 and love for the ideals that Lerine described.
143 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:07,000 But I think both of those are fabulous fuels to be effective.
144 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:20,240 And I think he would have bought his curiosity and lack of fear to have ideas.
145 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:25,720 But I think certainly would have felt that there's an imperative here.
146 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:30,480 But when he used to talk about it, you find what it is you love.
147 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:36,560 I used to think that was because it's nice to film "Feel" and "Yetami."
148 00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:42,360 He described that as being, "You know because if you're going to do something that's really
149 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:47,440 hard, you need that sort of fuel."
150 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,320 And "Furion love," I think, are wonderful fuels.
151 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,000 And I would expect there would be a mixture of both.
152 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,000 So talk a little bit about one of the things that he did.
153 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,600 And it got a lot of -- it gets attention now and again, his quotes.
154 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:05,240 And it was a code conference, or an all-thing-see conference about privacy.
155 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:09,640 That was something he talked about, very clearly, plain English and everything else.
156 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,040 Where do you think -- this is something you've done at Apple a lot.
157 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,560 It's been a big core value to the company.
158 00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:17,040 It's been good for market.
159 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:18,040 People feel safer on it.
160 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:19,920 It's good for sales.
161 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:24,440 Talk a little bit about the issues around privacy now, how you're looking at.
162 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:30,640 You know, Steve really ingrained in the company in the early days, the importance of privacy.
163 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:35,600 And it has only grown with every year that has passed since then.
164 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:45,920 He saw in -- I think it was at DA that he spoke about privacy here in 2010, I think it was.
165 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,080 He put it in such eloquent and simple terms.
166 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:54,400 It means asking people's permission, asking them repeatedly.
167 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,880 And it has been at the heart of how we view privacy.
168 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:04,400 And so, you know, we believe that privacy is a fundamental human right.
169 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:13,680 And we see a world where privacy takes a back seat and you have this sort of surveillance
170 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:20,720 kind of mode everywhere that this is a world where people begin to do less and think less.
171 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,520 They begin to alter their behavior because they know they're being watched.
172 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,680 And this is not a world that any of us want to live in.
173 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:31,240 I think he saw that and saw that well.
174 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:40,920 And I, you know, have every reason to believe that he would have put up a good argument and
175 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:42,680 good fights along the way.
176 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:45,080 Which you have been attempting to do in lots of ways.
177 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,080 Yes.
178 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,080 Whether it's around advertising or anything else.
179 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:53,520 Well, what we've felt is that people should own their data and they should make their own
180 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:54,760 decision.
181 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:59,680 And so, what we believed is that people should be empowered to be able to make that decision
182 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:03,240 in a really straightforward and simple manner.
183 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:08,760 Not buried 95 pages deep in a privacy policy somewhere.
184 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,720 And so, that's the way that we've looked at it.
185 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:18,320 And we continue as each year goes by to try to give our users to empower them to make those
186 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,760 decisions for themselves.
187 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:25,280 And you see the features that we've rolled out over time that do that.
188 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,400 We are not trying to make the decision for them.
189 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:33,080 Well, you have, by de facto, become because of this core value of this company, started by
190 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,800 Steve, you've become the de facto regulator in that regard because regulators haven't
191 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:38,800 stepped in.
192 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,200 Yeah, we're not, we're not just trying to be a regulator, Carol.
193 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:49,040 All we're trying to do is give people the ability to make the decision for themselves.
194 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,120 Do they want to be trapped?
195 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,840 Is this something that they are by freely making the decision to do?
196 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:00,560 And so, we're presenting them the ability to make that decision.
197 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:06,000 And we just keep trying to do that more and more and more as time goes on.
198 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:10,520 So, Johnny, we were talking earlier about, when we talked earlier this week about care
199 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:11,520 and design.
200 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,800 And that's another thing because a lot of the stuff that's been rolled out that have been privacy
201 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,960 violations have been rolled out without care.
202 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:23,160 That's, you know, without, I think, without consequences, without intentionality or just lack
203 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,000 of caring about the consequences.
204 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,600 Talking about the idea of care and design.
205 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:36,440 I think in, I mean, care is a tough word in some ways to understand.
206 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:43,760 I think it's easier to understand carelessness, which is, you know, being a disregard for
207 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,760 people.
208 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:50,080 You know, carelessness to me is just seeing people as a potential revenue stream, not the
209 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:55,480 reason to work moderately hard to really express your love and appreciation for the rest
210 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:56,480 of the species.
211 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:06,400 So, for us in our practice of design, I think care is very often felt.
212 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,640 And not necessarily seen.
213 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:14,480 And I think, and I know it's something that I think the three of us are strongly about.
214 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:21,160 That sort of care that is, I mean, Steve talked about, you know, the carpenter, the cabinet
215 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,920 maker that would finish the back of the drawer.
216 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:30,080 And it's that you're bothered beyond whether something is actually publicly seen.
217 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,920 You do it not because there's a, I don't know, an economic interest.
218 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:39,000 You do it because it's the right moral decision.
219 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:45,000 And I think it's, I think particularly as a designer, I think it's very often in the very
220 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:51,000 small quiet things, like worrying about how you package a cable or, or, or.
221 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,720 You clearly worry about that a lot, yeah.
222 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,560 I worry about ever such a lot.
223 00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:58,640 And, and Steve worried about that a lot as well.
224 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:04,280 And I think, I think it's that sort of, that preoccupation.
225 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:08,240 You know, when you're sat there on a Sunday afternoon worrying about the power cable that's
226 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:14,120 packaged as a, a ziggy, zag thing, and you're going to take that little wire tie off, when
227 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:18,680 you're sat there on a Sunday afternoon worrying about this isn't really very good.
228 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:24,640 The only reason, I think you're very aware that the reason you are there is because I think
229 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,080 our species deserves better.
230 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,680 It deserves some thought.
231 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,080 And it's a lovely way of, I don't know, I think you feel connected.
232 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:34,080 Right.
233 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:40,760 I remember once Walt came back from visiting him when, when they made, when Microsoft made
234 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,280 there, what was it, the zoom?
235 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:43,280 The zoom.
236 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:45,280 Yeah.
237 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,280 I, I don't know what he was going on.
238 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:48,280 Yeah.
239 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,280 Well, it was a, it was a Microsoft version of the iPod, really.
240 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:57,280 And apparently Walt, Steve had not seen it and Walt handed it to him.
241 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:58,760 And this is what he did.
242 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,120 Walt handed it to him and he went like this.
243 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:03,120 Very dramatic.
244 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,920 Very Steve, he goes, I cannot touch that.
245 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,720 It's disgusting.
246 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:09,720 Essentially.
247 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,840 And you know, he was doing it for Walt's benefit.
248 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,320 But he was repulsed by the design.
249 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,920 He was repulsed by the, of what it was, whether it worked or not, I don't care.
250 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:24,280 I mean, talk about this, this idea of care around creation, because you, you're doing a
251 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,880 whole lot of different things now.
252 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:32,520 But the idea of, that seemed to be something that mattered and some people thought it was
253 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,720 niggling details, the steadiestness, whatever it was.
254 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,880 How do you look at that?
255 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:49,320 I think that Steve early on in his life developed out a very full aesthetic sense.
256 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:54,320 Certainly, certainly before I did.
257 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:59,960 And, and he noticed details of everything.
258 00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:08,080 The way that the floor meets the walls meets the ceilings, the way that, that the lights
259 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:15,480 are either recessed or not recessed, whether or not the, the scant design allows for the
260 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,000 kind of illumination that it's meant for.
261 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,720 All things like that.
262 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:26,120 He was very, very much aware of, of both the physical and the natural environment.
263 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,440 He was animated by the natural environment as well.
264 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,400 And I think, as I mentioned, he loved California.
265 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,920 He really loved California.
266 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,280 He loved the natural beauty and the light of it.
267 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,800 And the sense of openness and possibility.
268 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:50,800 And I think that, that allowed him to have a much broader sense of what his life could be
269 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,720 as well.
270 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:59,520 I think that, you know, people, people made fun of us for years because in our house we couldn't
271 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,080 agree on a sofa or chairs.
272 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,320 So for many, many years we had neither.
273 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,320 [LAUGHTER]
274 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:19,600 But, mainly because we really, you know, there were so many details that we had to agree on.
275 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,600 And we finally did.
276 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,600 But I think it took about eight years.
277 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:24,600 How long?
278 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,080 It wasn't just a thing.
279 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:27,080 I don't like couches.
280 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,480 Because there's a lot of pictures of them without couches.
281 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:30,480 A lot of, if I could--
282 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:31,480 Yeah, but that was the--
283 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:32,480 That's why.
284 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:33,480 That was a real thing.
285 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,480 So one of the things was the idea of what, how to wield power, Tim.
286 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:45,280 And under your leadership, since you took over, Apple has become enormous.
287 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:50,560 It was a much smaller company when Steve was running it.
288 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:51,880 How do you look at that idea?
289 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:56,000 Because, you know, one of the things that Apple's undergoing now is us all of Tekken's and
290 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,160 go to scrutiny around power about the power these companies have over people.
291 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:06,520 I'd love you to sort of reflect on the idea of what the concepts were at the beginning
292 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,200 because one of the things Steve did was push against power.
293 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,960 That famous ad, obviously.
294 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,720 And he talked about it a lot.
295 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,640 The idea of-- he didn't seem to like power.
296 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:22,040 Now, this is probably the most powerful company in Tekken or one of them.
297 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:23,960 You know, we don't think in those terms.
298 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:24,960 OK.
299 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:25,960 That's not how we think.
300 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,040 We think about our values.
301 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:37,520 And we think about using any platform that we might have to expand those values.
302 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,440 And so we just talked about privacy.
303 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,560 But environment is another one.
304 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:47,400 You know, we touch a lot of companies around the world because we manufacture things.
305 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:54,600 And we know that we have a responsibility to convince those companies to use renewable
306 00:18:54,600 --> 00:19:02,360 energy and to recycle and to do things that are sustainable.
307 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:09,400 So that's the lens that we look at it through, not the lens of power and building it.
308 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:16,200 I mean, in a lot of ways, the company is still run the way Steve said it off.
309 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:17,360 I would describe that.
310 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:21,080 It's still a functional based company.
311 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:28,400 You know, we don't have these mini-PNLs in that where people fight about what cost are
312 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,480 allocated to which PNL and those sorts of things.
313 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,400 We have one for the company.
314 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,680 And we have someone that owns software and someone that owns hardware and someone that
315 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,960 owns technology and someone that owns design.
316 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:48,040 And it's a great partnership and collaboration.
317 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,000 And it was something that he demanded of people.
318 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:59,600 Was this idea of collaboration and the idea that small teams could do incredible things together.
319 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,200 And you know, he ran a meeting every Monday.
320 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,320 Johnny will remember this well at nine o'clock.
321 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,960 And no matter where you were, you were in that meeting at nine o'clock on Monday.
322 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,000 And it would get the top people the company together.
323 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,080 And we'd go through everything in the company that was key.
324 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:23,720 We still run that same meeting on that same day at that same time.
325 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:32,000 And so a lot of the things that he brought that aren't talked about very much, they live
326 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:38,800 on in terms of the principles and so forth that he utilized.
327 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,000 We don't sit around and say what would Steve do.
328 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,240 He told us not to do that.
329 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:52,400 But the reality is that he was the best teacher I've ever had by far.
330 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,200 And those teachings live on.
331 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:01,840 And not just in me because it's in a whole bunch of people that are there.
332 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,520 Give me a few of those teaching from your perspective.
333 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:11,360 He was always on that Apple should make the best products, not the most.
334 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:12,120 Well, yes.
335 00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:18,360 And so that, looking at things from that lens, changes everything.
336 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:24,240 And in reality, and sometimes those two align and you're the best as the most.
337 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,120 But many times it doesn't.
338 00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:31,920 And many times it won't because products become commoditized over time and
339 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:37,240 certain feels like the personal computer business that really happened to.
340 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,840 And we've never set a goal to make the most personal computers.
341 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:48,160 We make the Mac and we love what the Mac does and it's the best.
342 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,480 So we can be proud that it's the best.
343 00:21:51,480 --> 00:22:00,520 He had a view that he really drilled in me that Apple should own its primary technologies.
344 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:09,400 And that thinking led us to go into the processor business for the Mac.
345 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:10,920 First on the iPhone.
346 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:11,920 Right.
347 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:12,920 It's been on the Intel chips.
348 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:13,920 Right.
349 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:21,160 It did mean that because it's a very core technology.
350 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:27,720 He believed that you should own the customer experience in total.
351 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,520 And that the way that a customer felt drove him significantly.
352 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,080 He wanted to delight people.
353 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:42,680 You heard on the video and this happened thousands of times where he would get notes from somebody
354 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,440 that he doesn't know.
355 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,920 And they would talk about using getting our product and finding out that it did X and Y
356 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,160 that they didn't even know that it did.
357 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,960 And maybe it was years after they had initially bought the product.
358 00:22:54,960 --> 00:23:00,880 And so these are still deeply embedded into the company.
359 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:01,880 I'll talk about most.
360 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,680 One of you talked about the Nano.
361 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,480 Was it the Nano or the, the heat that became big, right?
362 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,480 That'd be very big.
363 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:09,480 Very big.
364 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:10,480 Correct.
365 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:18,080 You know, I remember we, I know we were chatting about this, but over lunch, I can't remember
366 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,400 which generation of the Nano it was.
367 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:29,320 But the, he was so surprised to be directly touching people.
368 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:37,040 I mean, I was so struck that he'd always assumed vicariously his work, Apple's work would
369 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,360 have enormous influence.
370 00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:47,160 But this was suddenly the volumes of this product, the fact that it was literally directly
371 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,120 touching people.
372 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:54,920 And thrilled him, not because of, you know, exactly as Tim described, not because that, that
373 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,760 was a goal, huge volume.
374 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:01,920 But to be so relevant with something that we poured so much care into.
375 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:07,560 So the idea that, but he still liked that it was not just impactful, but the good business
376 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,080 presumably.
377 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,440 We never talked about the business stuff.
378 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,560 Never.
379 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,800 And not really.
380 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,120 Did you talk about it?
381 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:21,880 I told you like hanking cables.
382 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:22,880 Yeah.
383 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:33,200 But I was, I don't know, I, we talked about a lot of stuff that was really about how we,
384 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:34,960 we saw the world.
385 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:42,120 You know, I thought the way, actually was interesting seeing that clip of, you know, Bill and Steve, when Bill
386 00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:46,280 said that he was, he was jealous of Steve's taste.
387 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:47,280 He was.
388 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:52,120 And I don't think that meant Bill was jealous of the way Steve chose his sneakers.
389 00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:59,720 I think it was that there was something beautiful about the way that Steve thought and about
390 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:04,520 the way he perceived things from the way he saw the world.
391 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:09,680 And I, I think there was, you know, the, the, and then I were chatting about this.
392 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,240 There was such intention in Steve's thinking, wasn't there?
393 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:24,160 You know, there was such rigor and, you know, I've never met somebody so curious and so inquisitive.
394 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,320 You know, his curiosity wasn't, you know, casual or passive.
395 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,000 It was ferocious.
396 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,600 It was restless, but it was intentional.
397 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:35,600 Talk about that.
398 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,600 You just weren't sure, Eddie.
399 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:46,200 Oh, I was thinking about actually when Steve came back to Apple and Tim would probably know
400 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:52,880 how many product lines there actually were and how many products there were in the 30s or 40s.
401 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,360 And so, too many, in other words, too many product lines.
402 00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:58,360 So many.
403 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:08,160 And they were, of course, running out of money and he clarified, went around and talked to
404 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:15,520 everyone and then clarified and justified the product line to, to be a two by two matrix
405 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,640 and narrowed it down to four things.
406 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:27,920 Now, that, that meant he had to use incredibly disciplined decision making and focus.
407 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:33,400 And he also was very much driven by keeping the company in business.
408 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:40,480 So he, at that point, he was very concerned about the business and used that very much as a
409 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,240 yardstick.
410 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:51,440 And I think that something else that Steve often talked about was the power of saying no.
411 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,360 Not no to bad ideas, but no to great ideas.
412 00:26:55,360 --> 00:27:01,960 No to ideas that you desperately wish to follow through on, but they actually don't fit in
413 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:02,960 that.
414 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,680 But the Ebbom is just talking about some of his ideas.
415 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,880 He can't do them for various reasons to find the discipline in them.
416 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,680 Keep going with that idea, the idea that you just don't do them.
417 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:13,680 No, no.
418 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:20,240 So that's that, that speaks to sort of hit the clarity of his thinking and the crispness
419 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:28,800 of his thinking as well as his desire to make those four things the best on the planet.
420 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:35,440 Because he, he often talked about leaving behind a body of work, the way that an artist
421 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,040 does.
422 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:43,040 And so he would, when you want to have a body of work, you want it to be great.
423 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,640 So, talk about that idea of creativity.
424 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:51,160 One of the things he talked about a lot when we talked was about mixing the art and the
425 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:57,200 commerce and the technology, which I think has been lost rather significantly.
426 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:02,320 I'd love it from your perspective, Tim, when you think about what you're making now, do
427 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:08,200 you think how hard is it to to marry those things without the person who talked about them
428 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,200 all the time?
429 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:16,320 I think Steve's vision for Apple was always sustained at the intersection of the liberal
430 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,320 arts and technology, was to always be there.
431 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:27,320 And we've always tried to stay in that spot and always think about the humanity, sort of
432 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,600 the person behind the product, the person that's using the product and had the technology
433 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:37,920 kind of received into the background.
434 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:43,200 And time and time again, he showed that he was doing that.
435 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,960 And he would make bold decisions on focus.
436 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:52,600 As witnessed by, I think he even shared on one of these stages that he initially was going
437 00:28:52,600 --> 00:29:00,760 to work on a tablet when he saw multi-touch and decided, no, this could be a phone.
438 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,000 And the phone was more important than the tablet.
439 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,480 And so he took what was arguably a great idea.
440 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,440 And shelved it for years.
441 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:15,560 This was not a, less delay in a couple of weeks or a year or something.
442 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,880 This was multiple years.
443 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:24,200 And iPad, as you know, has people love the product.
444 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:25,680 So delaying it to the phone.
445 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,760 He did lie about the phone on stage to us, absolutely directly.
446 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,480 And then laughed about it the next year.
447 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:31,480 And we go, did you lie to us?
448 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:32,480 He goes, I did.
449 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:37,280 I think initially, Steve was very concerned that,
450 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,360 Apple could not control the product.
451 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:43,600 Yes, the orifice thing.
452 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,680 In a way that would make it the best product.
453 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:53,240 He was worried that the carriers had, would direct the design of the product.
454 00:29:53,240 --> 00:30:00,000 And he was very worried that that would wind up being a product that Apple should not be doing.
455 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:06,760 And so it was not until he saw a way to change that.
456 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:11,480 That he became a huge proponent of Apple and the phone business.
457 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:16,360 He did, on stage at Aldenzi, he said, I don't like crawling through orifice,
458 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,160 which we were going to be lovely.
459 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:19,680 Yeah, I was just worried a little differently.
460 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:20,200 Yeah, right.
461 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,360 Well, he was talking about phone companies.
462 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,880 And that's why you saw that picture of Walt and I going through the orifice.
463 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,840 But one of the things that was interesting about it was getting control of that.
464 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,720 You know, getting control whether Bob Iger talked about that,
465 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:40,720 getting control of content, getting control of things that had been in powerful positions
466 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,480 that prevented you from making things at that time, as I recall.
467 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:50,640 When you think about that, Johnny, one of the things was design, the freedom of design.
468 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:57,320 How do you look at current design right now of things compared to what you were making?
469 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:58,760 I know you're working on a range of things.
470 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,640 You can't talk about everything you're making.
471 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:09,480 But how do you look at what's happened to design?
472 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:16,840 That's a curious, I mean, I think we're so preoccupied with what we're wrestling with,
473 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,880 that that's fairly sort of all consuming.
474 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:27,920 I think the problems, the challenges, you know, remain the same.
475 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:36,360 I do think that there are, I mean, there are fabulous affordances with interfaces like,
476 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,320 for example, multi-touch.
477 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,120 But we do remain physical beings.
478 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,440 And I do think that there are opportunities.
479 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:51,720 And sometimes I think potentially the pendulum may swing a little to have interfaces and products
480 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:56,720 that are more tactile and more engaging physically.
481 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:04,680 Obviously, the winds are substantial to have the ability to have an interface that is
482 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,960 app-specific.
483 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:15,520 But there are, I think, examples where the interface is being driven inappropriately by
484 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,280 something like multi-touch.
485 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,080 Like cars.
486 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:20,080 For example.
487 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,080 Yeah.
488 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:22,600 What would a car you design look like?
489 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:27,160 I know I can't talk to you about that.
490 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,600 I could ask the same, what would a car you would design?
491 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:35,760 Yeah, that's a good question for me.
492 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,160 I'm not a car person, really.
493 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:43,760 So I love beautiful old ones that are no longer safe to drive.
494 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:44,760 I find them so well.
495 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,280 I'll just buy one, yeah.
496 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:55,760 I would say I know you guys don't love the design of Tesla, but I appreciate the degree of
497 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:56,760 its safety.
498 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,320 It's really quite nice.
499 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:04,440 But I would like to come back to your previous question if I'd make her a, because I think
500 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:14,600 that something that Steve always took great pride in was being surrounded by artists,
501 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:19,640 and poets, and musicians, and that has to do with design.
502 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:30,600 So you design who you're with, and you find diversity of thought, and it brings out something
503 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:31,600 different in you.
504 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,080 And it's what Tim was talking about.
505 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:39,720 He was really residing in that intersection of liberal arts or humanities and technology.
506 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:48,480 And I think that Silicon Valley has always been a place where people came with big ideas
507 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,480 and wanted to come and do great things.
508 00:33:52,480 --> 00:34:00,560 And I hope that they're still remembering that we actually need some poetry and romance
509 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,840 in what comes out of there.
510 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,760 And I know I think that it's much less than it used to be.
511 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:13,880 I think he's understanding and reverence for the creative process was extraordinary.
512 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:22,600 I mean, I think Tim and I learned so much just going through the process with Steve.
513 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,920 But I think the way the process tended to work was there was thinking, which is why the
514 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:35,680 thing being intentional about your thinking, being very self-aware, but from your thinking
515 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,840 ideas emerge.
516 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,840 And I think one thing that I mean Tim and I talked about so much was the nature of ideas.
517 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,600 Ideas are fragile.
518 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,000 They're not resolved.
519 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,520 If they were resolved, there wouldn't be ideas.
520 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,520 There'd be products.
521 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,920 And one of the things that happens, and I think one of the huge challenges, particularly
522 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,800 amongst large groups, is that when you're talking about an idea, you're not going to
523 00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:58,800 have an idea.
524 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:04,040 Often the thing that is easiest to talk about, that is measurable, that's tangible, are
525 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:05,840 the problems.
526 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:15,360 And he was masterful at helping people, of course, not ignore the problems, but to remain
527 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:20,360 focused upon the promise, the vision of the actual idea.
528 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:27,680 And there was that wonderful reverence, I think, that he had for the creative process.
529 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:33,200 And I think most artists and designers, even if it's self-preservation, I mean, if you're
530 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:38,720 being expected to produce an idea, and you know that ideas don't oblige, you know,
531 00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:43,600 it's that you can't predict when you're going to have a good idea, I think you tend to need
532 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:49,600 to focus on process and the discipline of trying to increase the probability of a good
533 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:50,600 idea.
534 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,400 You know, as I was thinking about this, one of the things that I have felt over the many
535 00:35:54,400 --> 00:36:03,480 years is that, you know, Steve was not an easy subject, he had a lot of edges to him, but
536 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:09,880 he was more around passion and it was more around being difficult for a good reason.
537 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:15,640 You know, sometimes, I mean, he looks so calm in comparison to today's moguls, he's
538 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,920 just like, he parked his car somewhere weird, and that was the biggest controversy of the
539 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,600 moment, you know, he didn't like, tweet penis jokes at the present, or something like
540 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:24,600 that.
541 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:31,720 So, so what, he drove his car, and I don't care at this point, it seems very benign, kind
542 00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:33,520 of the sum of the stuff he was doing.
543 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,560 But one of the things, I was thinking of this idea of you were talking about which why
544 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:42,560 you're making something to be beautiful for ideas, it's been replaced by a repatuousness,
545 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:43,560 it just has.
546 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:51,320 It just, there's no beauty in it, it's soulless, and it feels, it doesn't feel soaring.
547 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:56,280 How do you think about that, Tim, like in terms of keeping that there, because there is the
548 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,880 pressure, pressure for earnings, there's a pressure for things, and you and I talked about
549 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,080 that in one of our interviews, when I, and I'm, you want to talk about specific people,
550 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,480 we're talking about Mark Zuckerberg at that time, and I said, what would you have done,
551 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,600 and you said, I wouldn't be in this place, in the first place, broader than that, how
552 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,880 do we get in this place, in the first place?
553 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:20,560 Because I do think the death of Steve Jobs sort of changed something in the atmosphere,
554 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:26,080 people that rose up, you know, for all his flaws, were not up to his speed.
555 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,280 I don't, maybe you don't agree with me on that.
556 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,480 I think Silicon Valley is not monolithic.
557 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:31,480 No.
558 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:36,480 And so it's not monolithic, and so I think it's hard to paint everything with one role, or
559 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,960 although people revered him more than anybody, as a...
560 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,080 Oh, I revered him, as you know.
561 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:55,040 And so I think he's a measuring stick that when you compare most people to, or always going
562 00:37:55,040 --> 00:38:00,240 to fall short of, and that's great.
563 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:11,360 He was a one in a century plus kind of person, I think, and in most every way.
564 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:18,800 And he was also demanding, and he was passionate about his point, and he believed that you get
565 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,040 a better answer by debating.
566 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:29,440 And so a lot of what people might not understand about him was he would debate just to get the
567 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:35,040 subject going, sometimes taking a position that he didn't even believe, and just to get
568 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:42,480 the discussion going, because he was so convinced if you examined this thing from outside, and
569 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:48,680 in a deep kind of way, in a very thoughtful kind of way, you would arrive at a better decision.
570 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:54,280 And I think, yes, I think that's something that not just founders, but everyone can learn
571 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:55,800 from.
572 00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:06,080 And I think getting, having the learnings from him moving forward is something that is very
573 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:16,320 important, because I do think that he was one in a gazillion kind of thing.
574 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:22,560 And certainly from my point of view, he changed the trajectory of my life.
575 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:32,040 And I can't imagine learning from anyone else the amount that I learned from him.
576 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:38,320 It was just, and it was a daily kind of thing.
577 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,520 He demanded innovation everywhere.
578 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:46,560 Obviously he demanded in products, but he demanded that marketing be innovative.
579 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,160 He demanded that operations be innovative.
580 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:54,760 He wanted every single thing in the company to be the best.
581 00:39:54,760 --> 00:40:05,000 And he had the examination ability with his thinking to go very deep on almost everything
582 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:06,000 in the company.
583 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:12,240 It was a very unusual skill set that he had.
584 00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:18,440 And so I think we can all learn from that in our own lives, both personal lives and
585 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:19,440 business.
586 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,840 Well, debating things is interesting, because I do think one of the things someone is asking
587 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:23,840 what the problem is.
588 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,880 And I'm like, they're surrounded by people who get, they pay, they own, and they don't have
589 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,440 anyone disagreeing with them.
590 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:30,600 There's no disagreement.
591 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:31,960 There's no debate.
592 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:32,960 That's right.
593 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,360 Everyone is in violent agreement together, and then they feel victimized as a group, you
594 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:38,360 know.
595 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,360 Where there was always debate with him.
596 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,680 There was always debate.
597 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,480 I know there was a folklore that you didn't debate him.
598 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:48,480 That's not true.
599 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:53,960 In fact, if you didn't debate him, he would kind of mow you down.
600 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:59,440 And he did not work well with those kind of folks that would not feel comfortable in debating
601 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,640 and pushing back.
602 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:09,480 And it was a very different environment for me, because I came out of an environment that
603 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,480 was more hierarchical in nature.
604 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:17,960 And you sort of each person agreed with the higher level person before you entered a room,
605 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,040 and there was no debate and no discussion.
606 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:26,320 What was your greatest debate with him over?
607 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,680 Probably the way the initial iPhone was sold.
608 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,280 What did you, what was your side?
609 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:38,680 I was for putting it in the subsidy model.
610 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:43,640 And he was for the revshare.
611 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:50,320 His way was more creative and more different.
612 00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,400 My way would have scaled faster.
613 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,240 At least I felt strongly.
614 00:41:54,240 --> 00:42:02,680 And so we were in quite a discussion about this for a while.
615 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,120 It was a multi-year discussion.
616 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,960 What about you, Lorraine?
617 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,960 What was your debate you would have as part of the debate?
618 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,960 Yes, besides the couch.
619 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:16,960 No, no.
620 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,440 We were together for 22 years.
621 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:26,440 So we had to pick your month and we did.
622 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,960 So I want to finish up talking a little bit about some things you're going to do.
623 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,440 Do you want to talk about the archive or not?
624 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:34,440 Oh, yes.
625 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:46,160 So what Kara's alluding to is a group of us, the three of us, and others who worked with
626 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:51,040 Steve over the years came together as advisors.
627 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:58,200 And we have a lead, historian, and archivist in a small group that has established the Steve
628 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,320 jobs archive.
629 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:09,280 And while we do have some artifacts and some actual real material, the archive is much
630 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,640 more about ideas as Johnny was describing.
631 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:24,840 And really rooted in Steve's long-held notion that once you understand that outside of the
632 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,920 natural world, everything in the built environment and all the systems that govern our
633 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:34,520 life on the planet were built and designed by other humans.
634 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:42,200 And once you have that insight, you understand that you as a human can change it, can prod it,
635 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:46,840 can perhaps interrogate it and stretch it.
636 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,320 And in that way, human progress happens.
637 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:57,600 And so he would reference the fact that everything that you're born into, the design of everything
638 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:03,720 around you, the clothes that you wear, all of these decisions were made by someone else,
639 00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:06,840 and the actual artifacts were made by someone else.
640 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:15,920 And so as humans, we have a responsibility to put things back into that pool of human existence
641 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:20,320 in a way that benefits all and that moves things forward.
642 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,160 And thereby, we have human progress.
643 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,720 So what is in the archive, this idea of?
644 00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:35,040 So we have, well, the archive has a website, Steve Jobs archive, and then there will be some
645 00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,640 programs that we have.
646 00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:41,800 There will be other products that I won't speak about at the moment.
647 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:50,200 There's a lot of, over the years, very carefully, a very brilliant documentary filmmaker has
648 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:59,720 interviewed hundreds of people who have reminiscence, memories, experiences, really beautiful stories
649 00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:02,320 to tell about Steve and working with Steve.
650 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,040 And so we've collected that as well.
651 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:15,280 There's also a lovely body of stuff that's just Steve, that is not somebody's interpretation
652 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:16,280 of.
653 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:21,640 I think one of the things that we thought so powerful about was that you actually started to
654 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,840 get a sense of how he did see the world.
655 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:31,560 And it's not somebody trying to make sense of something he said or a way he behaved.
656 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:38,080 You get to see, you know, a little note that he scratched or a way he annotated an email
657 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,000 or a presentation.
658 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:47,160 When you see something directly, you start to get a sense of what he was thinking and why.
659 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,960 And you realize how much he's lost, don't you?
660 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,760 When somebody else tries to make sense of someone's behavior.
661 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:56,560 So what would he be doing now?
662 00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:57,560 My last question.
663 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,160 We have a Zoom question from someone I know.
664 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,000 What, we have some questions from the audience.
665 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,600 What would he be doing now if he had lived?
666 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,920 What do you imagine he'd be working on?
667 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:09,920 What would he be doing now?
668 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:10,920 I would be working on his guess.
669 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:12,920 Oh, I wouldn't want to guess.
670 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:17,800 I think Steve was constantly changing.
671 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,040 And so he wasn't a static.
672 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:27,520 He would take a firmly held belief and presented with new facts, would change like this.
673 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:32,520 It was one of the great things I admired about him.
674 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,880 He would be dogmatic about something.
675 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:40,760 And something else like this change.
676 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:46,120 And I think that is such a great characteristic of people because people get held back by
677 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,760 their old thinking.
678 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:53,760 And regardless of what new thoughts and ideas come up and he never did.
679 00:46:53,760 --> 00:47:02,640 And so, you know, I knew what he was thinking in 2010 and 2011 and before.
680 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:06,640 And what he would be thinking today, I wouldn't want to have him to guess.
681 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,520 He would be evolving.
682 00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:15,720 He also was quite mindful about having not staying too long at the helm and making space for
683 00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:17,120 others.
684 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:22,960 He did have fantasy teaching eventually.
685 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:28,680 And because we live right near Stanford, you know, that notion of riding the bike to Stanford
686 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:29,680 and teaching classes.
687 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:31,680 Professor Steve Jobs.
688 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:32,680 Yes, exactly.
689 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:33,680 What is my teach?
690 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:41,680 I mean, I think you could teach almost anything and people would really benefit from it.
691 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:42,680 Not driving.
692 00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:43,680 Go ahead.
693 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,840 Actually, I couldn't agree more.
694 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:57,680 Yeah, I think part of curiosity, which I think defines so much of Steve, is your appetite
695 00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:58,680 to learn.
696 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,680 And to learn is more important than being right.
697 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:07,440 I think that goes what Tim was saying, which is, you know, you can present with passion a
698 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,560 perspective or a point of view.
699 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,880 But you're doing that not to in an argument.
700 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,760 You're doing it just to try and understand.
701 00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:22,440 And I think there's something so pure about that appetite just to learn.
702 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,920 Because it makes you question the motivation and the motivation not to win arguments.
703 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,840 And the motivation is to be able to do better work.
704 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:31,560 And I always loved how clear he was.
705 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:37,720 I mean, about, you know, a bunch of stuff can be consequential to doing better work.
706 00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:38,720 Like disruption.
707 00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:41,160 Disruption was never one of our goals.
708 00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:45,160 It happened to be a consequence of just trying to do something better.
709 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:46,160 But not a goal.
710 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,160 Or a company motto, for example.
711 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:50,160 I like that.
712 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:51,160 All right.
713 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:52,960 We have a question from Zoom.
714 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,960 First, go.
715 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:56,960 Hi.
716 00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:58,960 Hi, guys.
717 00:48:58,960 --> 00:48:59,960 Hi, wall.
718 00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:00,960 Hi.
719 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:06,480 So, you know, I spent.
720 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:11,400 For journalists for an outsider, I spent many, many hours talking to him.
721 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:16,360 We would have half an hour interview schedule that would wind up being two and a half hours.
722 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:22,440 And we'll go far beyond whatever he wanted to show me or whatever I wanted to ask him.
723 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:26,440 And we'll go back to the cover.
724 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,680 A lot of the fields that you're talking about beyond just what Apple was doing.
725 00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:37,560 But one thing he never mentioned in any of his talk with me was the stock market.
726 00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,040 Was market cap.
727 00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:40,040 Was the stock price.
728 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:47,440 Now, in the early days, as, as Lorraine mentioned, he did care about, you know, the revenues
729 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:51,440 and the profits of the company because it was almost dead.
730 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:57,560 A steady footing financially.
731 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:03,560 My impression was, yes, he cared about the company doing well, but he did not care about
732 00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,560 what the stock market thought.
733 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,360 At least I couldn't discern that at all.
734 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:13,560 And as you know, he also didn't even appear on most of the earnings calls.
735 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:22,440 So, and to me, the whole tech industry is like caught up in what the stock, what Wall Street
736 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:23,440 thinks.
737 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:24,920 So, can you talk about that?
738 00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:29,480 Am I wrong or am I missing something?
739 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:35,320 And would he be as frenetic about the price of the stock and you're two and a half trillion
740 00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:41,760 dollar market cap as some other people are journalists and other people who write it about
741 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,360 analysts?
742 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,840 I think it would be unimportant to him, Walt.
743 00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,200 I would agree with you completely.
744 00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,920 He was not driven by the financial results.
745 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:58,040 He was driven by making the best products that really enriched people's lives.
746 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,400 And so, he was about changing the world.
747 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:05,120 And that is really not marketing speak.
748 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,000 That is what drove him.
749 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:17,000 And he saw the success of the company merely the result of doing the other things right.
750 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:25,440 And so, he was never confused about focusing on the indirect consequence on the market and
751 00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,440 the financial results.
752 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:33,760 He focused on the inputs, getting the products right, making sure they were the best, making
753 00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,000 sure they were making a difference in people's lives.
754 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:38,000 Thank you, Walt.
755 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,000 I'll see you soon.
756 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:40,000 Thank you.
757 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,000 By the way, Walt, Steve.
758 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,000 I'm going to give a clap for Walt, Walt, and Steve Jobs.
759 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:45,000 Thank you, Walt.
760 00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:46,000 I'll see you soon.
761 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,000 Thank you.
762 00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:48,000 By the way, Walt, Steve.
763 00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:49,000 And I did it together.
764 00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:50,000 So, everybody give a clap for Walt, Walt, and Steve Jobs.
765 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:51,000 Thank you.
766 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:52,000 Okay.
767 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:53,000 Really have a few questions.
768 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:57,000 If they are all about the new iPhone, I'm going to make you move on.
769 00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,000 Because I want to talk about Steve Jobs.
770 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,000 If you don't mind.
771 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,000 It's my conference.
772 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,000 And so, there you have it.
773 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:08,000 But you can, but oh, for Fox sake.
774 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,000 So, we'll ask some questions and then we'll go and I have something I wanted, last thing I want
775 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:13,000 to read.
776 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,000 So, Neela, and all of them short, please go.
777 00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,000 Yes.
778 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,000 Don't worry, I was there this morning.
779 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,000 I don't have any questions about the iPhone.
780 00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,000 They wouldn't let me on your plane, Tim.
781 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:26,000 You guys talked a lot about how Steve would think the current political climate was really divisive.
782 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:27,000 The social media was bad.
783 00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:33,000 At the end of the day, those apps run on your phone.
784 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:39,000 How do you think Steve would have felt about the phone itself enabling some of these applications?
785 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,000 And what he wanted to take more control of that interaction?
786 00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:50,000 I think, well, I don't want to forecast what Steve would have thought in 2022.
787 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:57,000 But what we felt along the way is that some people were using the phone too much.
788 00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:05,000 And we never put out the phone for somebody to endlessly, mindlessly scroll in a feed.
789 00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:13,000 And so, we created things like screen time to try to help people know what they were doing.
790 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:20,000 And with the thinking that if people knew that people were really smart, that they would alter their behavior.
791 00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,000 And we've seen some of that.
792 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:31,000 So, I suspect he, when he started parental controls back before anyone was talking about parental controls.
793 00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:39,000 And I suspect that he would be thinking about more of those things.
794 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:43,000 Are you as worried about TikTok?
795 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,000 Is everyone else at this conference?
796 00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:50,000 You know, I don't feel like a TikTok expert.
797 00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:57,000 So, I would let other folks talk about that.
798 00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,000 You don't seem like a TikTok expert.
799 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,000 Although I do enjoy your air fryer content.
800 00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,000 It's really fun to watch.
801 00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:12,000 When you think about design in that same vein, do you worry about how it's used when you think about the intentionality of design?
802 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:18,000 Yeah, I mean, I think if you're innovating, there will always be unintended consequences.
803 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:23,000 Some of them wonderful and some of them not wonderful.
804 00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:30,000 And I think the issue is just how your decision in terms of what responsibility you need to shoulder.
805 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:44,000 I think the more powerful, I mean, this wonderful historic precedent for powerful tools, having that ability to be used in both ways.
806 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,000 But I think it's, you know, the consequences in the end of the day.
807 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:53,000 I think it comes down to how you view your responsibility.
808 00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:54,000 Okay, Ena.
809 00:54:54,000 --> 00:55:00,000 Ena, I'm afraid with Axias. This is a question I've actually wanted to ask several of you for a long time.
810 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,000 We've alluded to Steve's more challenging personality qualities.
811 00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:12,000 I'm curious which of his heartaches you think served him and which were the ones that kind of got in his way sometimes?
812 00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:18,000 Oh, the rain, you get that one.
813 00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:34,000 There were a lot of qualities that served him because he was an extraordinary leader, and he had, as we were saying, confidence in his own abilities to see and understand.
814 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:44,000 But also something in it that Tim mentioned is Steve actually called other people all the time.
815 00:55:44,000 --> 00:56:00,000 Every day he had a list of people he called and he just would ask them what's going on, what are you seeing, what are you thinking about, what are you watching, what's, and he would go across industry and call people who of course would answer the phone.
816 00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:13,000 And he would just pick people's brains constantly, which was a really interesting and I think not widely spoken about trait of his.
817 00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:29,000 And I think it reminded him to keep a beginner's mind and it reminded him that these ideas exist and are held by very, very smart people.
818 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:50,000 I think there were times however when he would, to his detriment, perhaps feels so confident in a point of view that this is the corollary, that he actually didn't necessarily interrogate it in a way that he might have.
819 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,000 But it also played to his benefit.
820 00:56:53,000 --> 00:57:06,000 I think there was one thing that really struck me was that if you think of the behavior or the characteristics of somebody who is so curious and questioning.
821 00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:24,000 And then you try and think of the characteristics of a person that has the required resolve and focus to turn an idea, despite all the problems, despite all of the barriers to turn that idea into something real.
822 00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:36,000 And then along that way when you come against the problem, you can't just stamp your foot, you have to go back and exercise those muscles of curiosity again.
823 00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:45,000 And I think one of the things that's perhaps not obvious is that doesn't happen just once or twice in a program. It happens once or twice every morning.
824 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:54,000 And I think that sometimes if you don't have that sense of context, it could look like anti-social behavior.
825 00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,000 Thank you.
826 00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:01,000 Hi, Zia Yusuf. Thank you all for these amazing insights.
827 00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:11,000 I wanted to ask you about the role of spirituality in Steve's journey. In the focus and simplicity, the curiosity, the design aesthetic.
828 00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:22,000 Did that play a role? Is that also driven, Johnny, for you and others around design? Any thoughts on that? And I don't mean religion. I just truly mean spirituality from there.
829 00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:37,000 I think it's tough to have a conversation about beauty without being sort of very humble and aware that there's an awful lot more going on than we can easily articulate or see or take a photograph of.
830 00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:57,000 And so I think that again, those are those wonderfully unusual juxtapositions of conversations that are maybe perceived as esoteric and ethereal right next to what does the wall thickness need to be here so we can call this properly.
831 00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:04,000 And I think those are lovely conversations to have at the same time.
832 00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:16,000 Don't say that's spiritual. Oh yes. I think when he was young, 19 or 20, he dropped out of college and he went to India.
833 00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:24,000 And that was a spiritual exploration that he had and then came back and studied Zen Buddhism.
834 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:34,000 And for many, many years had a teacher that he would sit, saw Zen with and study with.
835 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:46,000 And that was in the early, early days, obviously, of Apple. But I think it absolutely shaped his sense of his place in the universe as an individual being.
836 00:59:46,000 --> 01:00:14,000 And also it helped shape his sense of time. And I think he had a very sophisticated notion, not only that our time, all of our time, is quite brief in the context of the rest of the natural world, but also the way to use your time in a very wise and deliberate manner.
837 01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:17,000 Okay, right here.
838 01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:26,000 Good evening, beautiful people. My name is Laquan. So we talked about connectivity being very vital to what Steve saw.
839 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:34,000 And I think a big aspect of connectivity is communication. A communication was revolutionized with I message, right?
840 01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:46,000 How do you think Steve would feel currently about the state of communication, specifically between people who aren't within the community of Apple and are part of the I message.
841 01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:53,000 But more so on the green side of things with Android, we see a massive divide there.
842 01:00:53,000 --> 01:01:01,000 So how do you think Steve would feel about adapting RCS, risk communication systems that would normalize and streamline that?
843 01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:05,000 Tim, can you bring peace to the phone wars?
844 01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:12,000 He always told me not to wonder what he would have thought just to do the right thing.
845 01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:23,000 I don't hear our users asking that we put a lot of energy on that at this point.
846 01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:35,000 Now I would love to -- I would love to convert you to iPhone.
847 01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:42,000 It's tough not to make it personal, but I can't see my mom in certain videos or she can't see me in certain videos.
848 01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:55,000 And so we leave -- by your mom, I phone.
849 01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,000 Right here and then we'll go here.
850 01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,000 Yeah, you said privacy is a human right.
851 01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,000 It's also monetizable.
852 01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:04,000 I rolled out a lot of features.
853 01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:07,000 App tracking, transparency.
854 01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:13,000 It's probably the big one that improved privacy, also hobbled some of your competitors.
855 01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,000 They've been very vocal about that.
856 01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,000 I don't have to list who they are.
857 01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:21,000 You're also reportedly building up your own app with network.
858 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,000 So it's obvious how that would help Apple.
859 01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:31,000 How does that help your users and is that still consistent with Steve's vision for privacy?
860 01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:39,000 Well, we started advertising back in 2009 or 2010 with iAd.
861 01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:44,000 And then it morphed into search ads and so forth.
862 01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:56,000 But we follow the same rules or in fact more stringent rules on privacy than we put others up to.
863 01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:00,000 And so digital advertising is not a bad thing.
864 01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,000 We've never said digital advertising is a bad thing.
865 01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:14,000 What is not good is vacuuming up people's data when it's not -- when they're not doing so on an informed basis.
866 01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,000 That's what is bad.
867 01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:24,000 And so we try to put the user in the driver's seat there to own their data.
868 01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,000 Okay, right here.
869 01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:27,000 Hi, everybody.
870 01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:31,000 Doing -- first thing is first, I'm glad to actually see you guys in person.
871 01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:35,000 It's like the people who pretty much govern my life.
872 01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:36,000 Okay.
873 01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:37,000 So --
874 01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:38,000 They are.
875 01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:39,000 Oh, sorry.
876 01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:40,000 I didn't mean to talk to you.
877 01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:43,000 And I wrote down this question because I've been thinking about this.
878 01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:45,000 Just in regards to my business and what I want.
879 01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:51,000 So for you guys, to me, you guys are like the Nike of technology and products.
880 01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:55,000 Same way to me, I see Nike as the apple of shoes and a peril.
881 01:03:55,000 --> 01:04:01,000 So it's like, for me, I want to know, how do you gain that monopolization over your market?
882 01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:05,000 And how do you keep that grasp over your market and never let it go?
883 01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:08,000 Because I know it's a journey, I know it's a struggle, I know it's a fight.
884 01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,000 But you guys have competitors, but we don't see your competitors.
885 01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,000 We see you.
886 01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:19,000 So it's like, how do we get that grasp of the market if we're looking to change in our business?
887 01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,000 We actually have fierce competitors.
888 01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:26,000 We're in the most competitive industry there probably is.
889 01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,000 A smartphone market.
890 01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:32,000 You know, we're not the market leader in terms of market share.
891 01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,000 Samsung is.
892 01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:38,000 And if you watch football or any other thing on your weekend,
893 01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,000 you will see their ads everywhere.
894 01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:47,000 And so there's a -- and of course, there's lots of other people in the smartphone business as well, including Google.
895 01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:51,000 And Huawei and Oppo and Vivo and Xiaomi.
896 01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:56,000 And so all of these folks are spending tons of money around the world.
897 01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:04,000 What we do is we just try to very simply tell our product story.
898 01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,000 Say what we're about.
899 01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:15,000 And we try to make it as simple a message as possible because there's a limit to the messages that you can get across
900 01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:19,000 or a 30-second ad or even a one-minute ad.
901 01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:29,000 And so you'll see us occasionally highlight maybe photography and the beauty of the photos that you can take.
902 01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:32,000 Maybe we -- another time we might focus on video.
903 01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:39,000 And so we may take one feature and really highlight it in a great way.
904 01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:43,000 Maybe we highlight privacy.
905 01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:51,000 And maybe we highlight the ability of the iPhone to withstand drops and so forth in certain cases.
906 01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:57,000 And so just make it very simple is our message.
907 01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:59,000 Okay. And you say you guys have fierce competitors.
908 01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:08,000 But if I were to ask everybody here to ask who in here has an iPhone or an Apple product.
909 01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:11,000 I mean, you guys have the monopoly.
910 01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:16,000 No, the facts don't bury you out.
911 01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:17,000 Thank you.
912 01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:18,000 All right. Thank you.
913 01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:18,000 Thank you.
914 01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,000 We don't have time for more questions.
915 01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:21,000 I'm sorry, apologies.
916 01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:22,000 Sorry, Steve.
917 01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:24,000 And you get to talk to them plenty.
918 01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:26,000 And same thing with you, Lauren.
919 01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,000 So I'm going to indulge you.
920 01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,000 I would -- one more question, final question.
921 01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:32,000 And thank you all for being here.
922 01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:33,000 I really appreciate it.
923 01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:34,000 It means a lot to me.
924 01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:40,000 One word for Steve Jobs, if you had to say, I know there's so many words, but one word.
925 01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:44,000 And I have one and I'm going to finish up on that.
926 01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,000 One word.
927 01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:54,000 Curiosity.
928 01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:55,000 Oh, do I have that?
929 01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:56,000 I don't know. I'm still thinking.
930 01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:57,000 Johnny?
931 01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,000 That's an impossible question, isn't it?
932 01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:00,000 Yes.
933 01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,000 And he would not answer it.
934 01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:05,000 [ Laughter ]
935 01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:08,000 Oh, it's mine.
936 01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:10,000 Radiant.
937 01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:15,000 That's a great one.
938 01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:18,000 I would say pure.
939 01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:20,000 Nice. You could do something.
940 01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:21,000 Yeah, just think of it.
941 01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:22,000 I'm going to say surprising.
942 01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:26,000 And I'm going to tell one Steve Jobs story, which took place at code.
943 01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,000 We were in the back.
944 01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:36,000 And Walt was -- he had just come off and he had met, I think, Louis for the first time when he was -- maybe a blue ear out.
945 01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:41,000 And he started asking me intense questions about how we had them, like a lot.
946 01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:42,000 And he never did that.
947 01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:44,000 Like he was always interested in Walt.
948 01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:50,000 I was like the girl standing next to Walt most of the time for him, because he and Walt had a very interesting relationship.
949 01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,000 But he was really interested.
950 01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:53,000 Yes, tons and tons of questions.
951 01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:56,000 And it was because he himself had been adopted.
952 01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:58,000 And he asked about adoption.
953 01:07:58,000 --> 01:07:59,000 And this and that.
954 01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:02,000 And I said, well, I had the baby because I have a uterus and it's great.
955 01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,000 But we're doing this adoption and that.
956 01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,000 And there were lots of adoption problems at the time for gay people.
957 01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:10,000 And he told me his whole story sitting there.
958 01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:12,000 It was amazing.
959 01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:13,000 It's been reported.
960 01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:14,000 It wasn't quite the same.
961 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:15,000 It's been reported.
962 01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:19,000 But he told the story of the doctor and his parents and this and that.
963 01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:24,000 And one of the things he did was say, you're not who you were born to.
964 01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,000 Because of I was like, oh, I consider Alex.
965 01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:28,000 I consider my kid.
966 01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:31,000 I consider I didn't have him, but he's my kid.
967 01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:32,000 I adopted him.
968 01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:34,000 And he said, oh, it's not who you're born to.
969 01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:38,000 And he talked about his adopted parents.
970 01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:39,000 How much he loved them.
971 01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:41,000 He was crying.
972 01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:42,000 He made me cry.
973 01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,000 I think of when I think about it, I cry about it.
974 01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:46,000 And he went on and talked about it.
975 01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:50,000 And he said, just remember, it doesn't matter where you came from.
976 01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:54,000 It's like it's who you are and the people who love you.
977 01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,000 And it was, I was surprised.
978 01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,000 And that's what I would say about him.
979 01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,000 He was surprising as a person.
980 01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:04,000 And I had thought he was a very different kind of not like that.
981 01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:05,000 And it was really quite a moment.
982 01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:08,000 And then of all things, he hugged me.
983 01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,000 I don't like it.
984 01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:12,000 But he did.
985 01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:14,000 And it was really, I just couldn't believe it.
986 01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,000 I was sort of like, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right.
987 01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:21,000 But the reason why I want to read the last thing from his and this may make me cry.
988 01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:24,000 I read it every three months.
989 01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:27,000 And this is why we do the things we do.
990 01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:34,000 Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important tool I've ever encountered
991 01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,000 to help me make big choices in life.
992 01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:42,000 Because almost everything, all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure.
993 01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:46,000 These things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important.
994 01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:51,000 Remembering that you're going to die is the best way to avoid the trap of thinking of something to lose.
995 01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:53,000 You are already naked.
996 01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:56,000 There is no reason not to follow your heart.
997 01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:59,000 I think we'll end on that.
998 01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:09,000 [APPLAUSE]
999 01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:10,000 Thank you.
1000 01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:11,000 Thank you all.
1001 01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:12,000 Everybody?
1002 01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:13,000 Thank you.
1003 01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:15,000 [APPLAUSE]
1004 01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:25,000 [BLANK_AUDIO]