gensokyo.org's image license

2014-05-22 19:23	<Nmlgc>	http://thpatch.net/wiki/Th10/Images << Yes! Someone *understands* Touhou Patch Center, and started this on their own! <3
2014-05-22 19:24	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	o:
2014-05-22 19:24	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Yaaaay~
2014-05-22 19:27	<Nmlgc>	Nazeo, we'll be doing the same image uploading procedure used for 14.3 with the rest of the games over the course of next week.
2014-05-22 19:28	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Sounds good!
2014-05-22 19:35	<Nmlgc>	... which means that I have to get the warning for English images up.
2014-05-22 19:35	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Warning?
2014-05-22 19:36	<Nmlgc>	http://thpatch.net/wiki/Template:Gensokyo.org_note << gensokyo.org, the GEMA of the Touhou community.
2014-05-22 19:39	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	......
2014-05-22 19:39	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	This makes me mad on so many levels.
2014-05-22 19:39	<Kog>	"possible legal issues"
2014-05-22 19:39	<Kog>	uhm
2014-05-22 19:39	<Kog>	that's...uhm
2014-05-22 19:39	<Kog>	pretty shitty to say
2014-05-22 19:39	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Nmlgc, when have they started doing this?
2014-05-22 19:40	<notyou_21>	What...the...heck
2014-05-22 19:41	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Did Halbard say that?
2014-05-22 19:41	<Nmlgc>	Yes.
2014-05-22 19:41	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	.....
2014-05-22 19:41	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Wow
2014-05-22 19:41	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Just wow
2014-05-22 19:41	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Things like this is why I struggle to have respect for those guys :/
2014-05-22 19:41	<Kog>	that's remarkably crappy
2014-05-22 19:42	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Alright. So we'll start from scratch then.
2014-05-22 19:42	<Kog>	do they even have that right?
2014-05-22 19:42	<Nmlgc>	It's their patch, and its content is subject to whatever license they choose.
2014-05-22 19:43	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	(facepalm)
2014-05-22 19:43	<Primeval Mysterious Genshuku Dolls>	just means that if you really need images
2014-05-22 19:43	<Primeval Mysterious Genshuku Dolls>	you can make some prettier ones
2014-05-22 19:44	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	This is bullshit. They don't hold the images themselves.
2014-05-22 19:44	<Nmlgc>	In fact, the only reason we can allow copy-pasting from Touhou Wiki in the first place is their explicit Creative Commons license on everything.
2014-05-22 19:44	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Ugh
2014-05-22 19:44	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	I'm so sick of this fandom man.
2014-05-22 19:44	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	I really am.
2014-05-22 19:44	<Kog>	That, and considering it's a wiki, modifiable by everything, they'd probably have a tough time holding a copyright over it.  I...think
2014-05-22 19:45	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Not Gensokyo.org
2014-05-22 19:45	<Kog>	Still.  That's some class A bullshit
2014-05-22 19:45	<Kog>	the wiki, I mean
2014-05-22 19:45	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	They are a distinct, different organization from Touhou Wiki.
2014-05-22 19:45	<Primeval Mysterious Genshuku Dolls>	that all well and said, 'possible legal issues with fan translation'
2014-05-22 19:45	<Primeval Mysterious Genshuku Dolls>	this sounds a lot like 'we don't like you'
2014-05-22 19:45	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	They literally did this to-
2014-05-22 19:45	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Exactly
2014-05-22 19:45	<Primeval Mysterious Genshuku Dolls>	bonus points for 'explicitly said', meaning they went out of their way to say 'we don't like you'
2014-05-22 19:45	<Kog>	they don't like someone butting in on their schtick, I guess
2014-05-22 19:45	<Primeval Mysterious Genshuku Dolls>	it's funny, because they're not doing anything IIRC
2014-05-22 19:46	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Kog: They are gone.-
2014-05-22 19:46	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	What Genshuku said.
2014-05-22 19:48	<Nmlgc>	The point is, it is a sound argument. It has been established time and time again that every fan translation is a copyright violation.
2014-05-22 19:48	<Nmlgc>	In fact, the PyTouhou project has a similar issue that keeps them from supporting us.
2014-05-22 19:49	<Primeval Mysterious Genshuku Dolls>	'keep your copyright violations to yourself'
2014-05-22 19:49	<Kog>	Sounds like something where if one group persues that legal action, it fucks everyone over completely
2014-05-22 19:49	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	I didn't see the "possible legal issues" when it was just them translating
2014-05-22 19:49	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Everyone seemed OK with it then.
2014-05-22 19:50	<Primeval Mysterious Genshuku Dolls>	I mean if there's sense in...not sharing when everyone's doing the same thing anyway
2014-05-22 19:50	<Primeval Mysterious Genshuku Dolls>	then hearing it would be nice
2014-05-22 19:50	<Primeval Mysterious Genshuku Dolls>	but in the end, making your own stuff works just as well
2014-05-22 19:51	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	No, they don't do that. No one ever gives us a truly concise argument anymore.
2014-05-22 19:51	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	I'm sorry guys.
2014-05-22 19:51	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	I'm just fed up with how they treat Nmlgc. It bugs the hell out of me.
2014-05-22 19:52	<Primeval Mysterious Genshuku Dolls>	eh, nmlgc thinks it's legit, and COPYRIGHT LAW is a grey haze
2014-05-22 19:53	<Primeval Mysterious Genshuku Dolls>	it might just be their final way to run away from responsibility for all I know
2014-05-22 19:55	<Nmlgc>	Well, I think that we should not overly bother with copyright in what is effectively nothing more than one drunkard's hobby project.
2014-05-22 19:56	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	I also don't think they can choose to decide to beat us down whenever it suits their convenience..
2014-05-22 19:57	<Nmlgc>	Touhou Wiki itself may likely suffer a similar fate once Touhou becomes officially published worldwide.
2014-05-22 19:57	<Kog>	why's that?
2014-05-22 19:58	<Nmlgc>	If mauve had it his way, they would have to remove their translations in that case as well.
2014-05-22 19:58	<Kog>	mauve?
2014-05-22 19:58	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Kog: They no longer will be as important to immerse the fandom with the touhou project
2014-05-22 19:58	<Kog>	I would argue they would be, considering how popular wikias are
2014-05-22 19:59	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Say no to wikia. :u
2014-05-22 19:59	<Kog>	I'm considering the wiki and wikia of a similar line, is all.
2014-05-22 19:59	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	They are not.
2014-05-22 19:59	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	The premise is the same.
2014-05-22 19:59	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	One is non-profit
2014-05-22 19:59	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	The other isn't so.
2014-05-22 19:59	<Nmlgc>	mauve, the developer of the 7.5, 10.5 and 12.3 English patches as well as Rollcaster, now actively trying to pursue a cooperation with ZUN to do official English translations.
2014-05-22 19:59	<Kog>	oh boy.
2014-05-22 20:00	<Kog>	anyone know how lucky he's been on that?
2014-05-22 20:01	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	So a monopoly on translations. How quaint.
2014-05-22 20:02	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	What if I want to have it in pirate english? Or some other variant?
2014-05-22 20:02	<Kog>	rofl
2014-05-22 20:02	<Nmlgc>	That's why I'll continue until we get a formal cease and desist notice. :)
2014-05-22 20:02	<Primeval Mysterious Genshuku Dolls>	English isn't the only language~
2014-05-22 20:02	<Primeval Mysterious Genshuku Dolls>	even if it's the only one I know
2014-05-22 20:03	<Nmlgc>	Which, in turn, would establish a precedent.
2014-05-22 20:03	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	I'll be right by your side Nmlgc.
2014-05-22 20:03	<Kog>	With how widespread Touhou is, though
2014-05-22 20:03	<Kog>	I get the feeling there would be massive backlash if a C&D happened
2014-05-22 20:03	<Kog>	Considering how many languages are used in the fandom
2014-05-22 20:04	<Nmlgc>	Remember that Brazilian Portuguese was the first language to provide translated images of 14.3.
2014-05-22 20:04	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	That was cool~
2014-05-22 20:04	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	I remember when it was the french language that was the popular thing c:
2014-05-22 20:05	<Nmlgc>	And 61% of our Facebook fans do not speak English as their native language.
2014-05-22 20:05	<Kog>	Exactly
2014-05-22 20:06	<Kog>	It'd be a slap in the face by ZUN, I guess, if a C&D went out to fan translations if an official english translation came about
2014-05-22 20:07	<Nmlgc>	It'll probably be issued on the localizer's behalf, then.
2014-05-22 20:07	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	I don't see this happening.
2014-05-22 20:07	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Just with the nature of how everything has been going.
2014-05-22 20:07	<Kog>	Yeah
2014-05-22 20:08	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Even if they made their own "official translation", there will always be a need for thcrap.
2014-05-22 20:08	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	It's too good of a program. c:
2014-05-22 20:09	<Nmlgc>	Although I do hope that we're already focusing on different games when that time comes.
2014-05-22 20:09	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	Plenty of oppertunity~
2014-05-22 20:10	<Nmlgc>	About C&Ds, I remember a vaguely similar case that happened to me with Rosenkreuzstilette ~Freudenstachel~.
2014-05-22 20:11	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanTranslation
2014-05-22 20:12	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	"While no legal dispute over a fanmade patcher has ever occurred, a handful of cease-and-desist orders have been issued regardless of any actual validity. Since ROM patchers contain no assets from the original game and no derived assets that are viable without it, no likely basis for arguing infringement is known. The resulting translated ROMs themselves, of course, fall under the same rules as any other ROM dump if distributed. "
2014-05-22 20:12	<Nmlgc>	Well yeah, but edited images certainly fall under "derived assets".
2014-05-22 20:13	<Kog>	I think the important part of that is the "ROM dump" part.  The patchers don't actually work on ROMs.  Just actual installations of the game, regardless of "how" it was installed
2014-05-22 20:13	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	It's text, in the form of an image
2014-05-22 20:13	<Nmlgc>	http://thpatch.net/w/images/1/1f/th10-title-sl_pl01b.png << ... sometimes with a background derived from the game.
2014-05-22 20:14	<Nazeo Aelko Nezen>	You win there. But we'll wait till we see those C&Ds then :P