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@raiph
Created Sep 16, 2012
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Feedback for Moritz about irclogger changes

What about “Communal logmarks”? To logmark a line that isn’t already logmarked, click it’s time field. From now till someone or something unhighlights it, that line will be highlighted for you. And for everyone else. It’s a communal logmark. Anyone (or anything) can click again to unhighlight.

Original gist below, with couple minor edits.

Feedback for Moritz about irclogger changes

Even if you do nothing else…

I am very happy you’ve done what you’ve done. I say the prognosis just sharply improved for #perl6 summaries, my carpal tunnel pain, and your irclogger software!

Phase 2 and 3

Phase 2 and 3 (https://gist.github.com/3662771) aren’t going to magically materialize. And I don’t want to burden you. And I don’t currently feel it would be wise for me to try to code them. So I’m going to ignore Phase 2 and 3 for most of this gist. But I felt I needed to say something about them, so here goes.

Forgetting me for a moment, I think doing Phase 2 and 3, so it becomes relatively trivial to do something like http://blogs.perl.org/users/perl_6_reports/2012/09/perl6-summaries-for-2012-09-02.html, would again sharply improve the quality of the summaries and add a lot of value to your irclogger software.

Coming back to me, I’m thinking that, at least until my pain subsides, I won’t manually do these annotations of the annotations, ie I won’t clump summary lines together, give them a category and heading, and add commentary and links, as I did in earlier summary posts. Even when the pain has subsided, I think I’ll still be hankering for the Phase 2 and 3 stuff to save me further pain, and the extra time and bugs of using cut and paste.

Phase 1

I would really like to clean up the Phase 1 stuff. This is not about me being the one currently focusing on #perl6 summmaries but rather about pride in your nice irclogger software and also making it easier for #perl6ers to help summarize.

Phase 1 overall

Currently anyone can change which lines are in the summary but it’s relatively cumbersome. Scroll to top. Click Enable summary mode. Scroll back to the line to change. Click checkbox. Scroll to top. Click Save summary changes. Click “summary”. Scroll to line to confirm it’s in the summary.

Currently everyone can see the current summary — but only when they (know to and, unprompted, think to) click the “summary” link.

Currently folk don’t get to see highlighting and context at the same time. (The closest is “Enable summary mode” when viewing the Full log; “highlighted” lines have their checkbox checked.)

So?

First, here’s something I think you’ll agree would be both nice and simple no matter what. Could you highlight (use a different cell color for) summary loglines? Something like (exactly as?) the coloring one gets when one clicks the time field? So someone could see these lines, and visually skip thru the full log, without needing to click a summary link.

Second, what if clicking the time field just toggles the summary status for that line? Sure some folk might accidentally toggle the highlight of a line because they clicked the time field, but so what? Maybe this won’t work because of spiders that ignore robot.txt but it sure would be a simple UI that is a tiny step from what currently exists.

“Enable summary mode” would presumably then be just for someone focused on doing the Summary as a batch change process.

A final overall comment: I think the feature you’ve implemented would be much better described as “Highlights” than as “Summary” and suggest you change the links etc. accordingly.

Phase 1 bugs

  • In the “summary” display some nick cells that I would expect to be dark are light.
  • I clicked “Enable summary” mode. Then a link within that. Then the back button. Appeared to be back in regular mode! Had I lost my changes? Clicked “Enable Summary mode”. All changes kept. Phew!
  • Link menus:
    • On my PC “Enable summary mode” (and “Turn on filtering by nick”) doesn’t appear until after the rest of the page has loaded. In combination with some other UI quirks, this confused me when I was first trying to understand how this “summary” stuff worked. (Where did that Enable link go? Click to go find it. Repeat. Ah, there it is. Could have sworn it wasn’t there earlier…) Maybe all the “summarizing” stuff should appear where “Enable summary mode” currently appears? If one squints, the “summary” link and its effect are somewhat analogous to “Turn on filtering by nick”.
    • There’s no space between the “plain, newest first” and “|” that follows it.
    • “plain, newest first”, and “summary”, are not tc but all other menu entries are (Previous day, Channels, etc.)
    • There’s no “Full” link. Links like “Today” are close. But what if I’m viewing the “summary” of, say, 2012-09-04, and want to switch to the full log?
    • If viewing the “summary” AND “summary mode” is enabled, the “show only summary lines” and “show all lines” links don’t change the display (summary and all are the same).
    • Fwiw I think the top text could do with refreshing. “Parrot” definitely seems out of place. “source cross referenced” didn’t respond. I think Specs is less worthy of a link than p6doc.
@moritz
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moritz commented Sep 16, 2012

 In the “summary” display some nick cells that I would expect to be dark are light.

Example? After a quick skimming of a summary page I didn't notice any.

I clicked “Enable summary” mode. Then a link within that. Then the back button.
Appeared to be back in regular mode! Had I lost my changes?
Clicked “Enable Summary mode”. All changes kept. Phew!

I'm afraid that's a "wontfix". The back button and Javascript simply don't work well together, fixing that would require far too much work.

 On my PC “Enable summary mode” (and “Turn on filtering by nick”) doesn’t appear until
 after the rest of the page has loaded.

That's a feature of progressive enhancement, ie somebody without any javascript won't see any such links. I'm not sure if there's an easy way to load it faster without losing progressive enhancement.

 There’s no space between the “plain, newest first” and “|” that follows it.

fixed

 There’s no “Full” link.

fixed

 Fwiw I think the top text could do with refreshing. 

done

Some of the changes you propose make the summary mode much more intrusive than it is now, and I'm not convinced that it's useful enough to warrant that. I want to wait for feedback from other users (including non-#perl6) before I decide whether to take action on them.

I'm aware that the UI needs some polishing, and I'll work on it a bit.
Thanks for the feedback!

@raiph
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raiph commented Sep 16, 2012

I'm afraid that's a "wontfix". The back button and Javascript simply don't work well together, fixing that would require far too much work.

That's a feature of progressive enhancement, ie somebody without any javascript won't see any such links. I'm not sure if there's an easy way to load it faster without losing progressive enhancement.

Gotcha. I note that the simple "logmarks" approach I suggested most recently would eliminate most and possibly all of the existing UI problems including these because it's a direct, and much simpler, replacement. The logmarks approach has weaknesses but its UI simplicity is clearly a strength.

Some of the changes you propose make the summary mode much more intrusive than it is now, and I'm not convinced that it's useful enough to warrant that. I want to wait for feedback from other users (including non-#perl6) before I decide whether to take action on them.

Perhaps so, but do you agree that some go the other way?

If you don't see the logmarks idea as extremely simple then I haven't explained it correctly. I would understand if you said it wouldn't work in practice provided you also agreed it was extraordinarily simple in both theory and the coding effort necessary. If you did not so agree, then I haven't explained it correctly!

I'm aware that the UI needs some polishing, and I'll work on it a bit.

Imo the logmarks idea is a big improvement UI wise over what's currently in place. I also suspect you could code it up and play with it to convince yourself in less than an hour. It's extremely simple. Click on time field means toggle the highlight for this log line. Display highlighted log lines the way they currently are when one clicked on a time field. Boom. All done. Scrap the rest of the UI.

@raiph
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raiph commented Sep 17, 2012

Another go at showing the odd cell coloring issue. I grabbed the HTML source of a page with the problem and saved it here: https://gist.github.com/3734995

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