stdin

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[04:17:41] * CO2 charges up the theremin for some good doctor who themes
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[04:23:25] <Kliment> Your theremin needs charging?
[04:27:37] <CO2> yeah, it's a 300kV one
[04:30:49] <CO2> and actually theremins always need charging
[04:31:02] <CO2> "the antennas aren't true antennas, they are more like capacitor plates"
[04:31:14] <CO2> capacitors need to charge up, even though it takes like a tenth of a second :)
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[06:57:08] <Electric91> Hello, fellow Whovians!
[07:21:46] <Electric91> Yay
[07:21:51] <Electric91> WHO’S SATURDAY IS IT
[07:37:59] <jglauche> and it's STILL not aired
[07:38:53] <Bubo> still like 5 hours to go
[07:39:32] * Bubo wanders off to set record
[08:13:48] <Bubo> hmm
[08:13:55] <Bubo> is it on later than usual?
[08:14:31] <Bubo> or is something wrong with the timezone setting on my TV?
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[09:11:19] <Electric91> hi guys im missy 
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[09:11:35] <Electric91> i lost my remote control tho
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[09:24:49] <jglauche> hope it's stuck on bbc1
[09:25:23] <jglauche> oh, 20:15 GMT today.
[09:28:19] <Kliment> British Brominating Corporation
[09:29:05] <jglauche> good that we don't have smellyvision
[09:37:54] <nemo> very final episode will be 60 minutes long
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[11:42:40] <Electric91> Oh nice
[11:42:42] <Electric91> Cool!
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[12:27:03] <Electric91> 50$ that the series end tonight
[12:27:16] <Electric91> And that the doctor exiles himself in antartica without his tardis
[12:29:08] <jglauche> wut
[12:29:29] <Bubi> I bet 1000$ that tonight!!
[12:29:30] <jglauche> that'll be too much trolling even for moffat
[12:29:39] <Bubi> will air a doctor who episode of season 8
[12:29:54] <Bubi> with peter
[12:30:48] <Bubi> judging from the preview, clara ain't a happy person anymore
[12:30:51] <Bubi> but we'll see
[12:48:49] <Bubi> soo.. detaching here until I saw the episode.. see ya tomorrow
[13:01:58] <ladymondegreen> damn....i was going to chill and catch up on doctor who this afternoon, but i cant do that if another episode just aired/is airing
[13:22:58] <Electric91> 1 hour and bits to go 
[13:23:10] <Electric91> You still have time to watch one episode
[13:23:12] <Electric91> IT’s 40 min
[13:23:16] <Electric91> If they’re two, tough luck :D
[13:23:40] <Electric91> To be honest, only the ending counts, because tonight we’re seeing some Missy i bet
[13:23:56] <Electric91> Well, not sure, but i don’t wanna fuck your season up
[13:24:00] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: no, i'm like, 6 episodes behind
[13:24:18] <Electric91> Shit, you need to catch up. Just record it and watch tomorrow after seeing all 5 or something
[13:24:19] <ladymondegreen> and i promised that when i caught up, i'd do my standard live IRC commentary
[13:24:45] <ladymondegreen> but i cant really do that if another episode is showing because then other people will be talking spoilers while i'm doing live commentary
[13:25:50] <ladymondegreen> i could go take a nap now, and come back in a few hours and check how busy the channel is
[13:26:00] <ladymondegreen> yeah, okay, this is what i'll do.
[13:26:11] <ladymondegreen> i'm going to take a nap and have some sort of breakfast or lunch thing
[13:26:22] <ladymondegreen> i should be back in like, 3 or 4 hours
[13:26:36] <ladymondegreen> which would give me time to catch up on everything and catch the new episode live my time
[13:27:23] <ladymondegreen> rcombs, bubo, nemo, Kliment, can one of you poke me in a few hours and let me know if its safe to be in here and do my commentary? if not, i'll just catch up on episodes another day
[13:35:59] <ladymondegreen> i'm a bit worried i'll be quite harsh
[13:36:07] <Kliment> :)
[13:36:14] <ladymondegreen> i'm been reading so much really brilliant scifi lately, that i'm bound to be extra disappointed
[13:36:17] <Kliment> That's why we like you
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[13:37:12] <ladymondegreen> well, that's a large part of why i'm harsh in general. I love scifi SOO much and there's SOO much you can do, that it's not just another bad plot to me, it's another disappointment
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[13:37:40] <ladymondegreen> i mean, you can do ANYTHING!. you should be brilliant and clever and blow my mind
[13:38:01] <ladymondegreen> right now, i'm in the middle of reading this AMAZING series
[13:38:33] <ladymondegreen> quantum entanglement and interstellar alien war, and of course, the politics of that war, and its fucking genius
[13:38:58] <ladymondegreen> and these aliens she's created....i've spent two books with one of the species....in their day to day life
[13:39:10] <ladymondegreen> and they are still so bizarrely alien i cant even fully wrap my mind around them
[13:40:04] <ladymondegreen> oh, and i just read, last night, this amazing scifi book. humans go out to an alien planet to colonise and of course, aliens are there
[13:40:21] <ladymondegreen> and the two species in the book
[13:40:25] <ladymondegreen> one is DNA based
[13:40:50] <ladymondegreen> but the other....not at all. closest thing you could compare it too is a plant
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[13:40:55] <ladymondegreen> all their tech is bio tech
[13:41:09] <ladymondegreen> but really, you cant compare it to anything because its just so alien
[13:41:26] <ladymondegreen> and their morality system is totally different
[13:42:09] <ladymondegreen> anyway, so yeah, i've been reading the MOST amazing scifi
[13:42:20] <ladymondegreen> where i actually care about the characters and where death and loss matters
[13:42:27] <ladymondegreen> where the plot matters and it makes sense
[13:42:54] <ladymondegreen> where implications and complications are the most important bits
[13:43:31] <ladymondegreen> but i shall put my high standards and excellent books aside and marathon some doctor who this afternoon
[13:43:46] <ladymondegreen> so that i can groan and complain and mock it to all of you lovely people
[13:44:44] <ladymondegreen> anyway, sleep now, who later
[13:49:54] <jglauche> can someone pick me up in their *rdis and get me to +0 timezone?
[14:12:33] <ladymondegreen> jglauche: sure, i'll see you yesterday
[14:14:50] <jglauche> you've picked up the wrong person then :(
[14:46:20] <Electric91> Aww
[14:46:25] <mjr> hmh, bbc has probably blocked my vpn provider
[14:46:26] <Electric91> Well show is soon!!
[14:46:30] <Electric91> HAH
[14:46:32] <Electric91> BBC is official for me
[14:46:35] <Electric91> BBC biatchs
[15:00:18] <jglauche> enjoy the dance show then ..
[15:14:39] <Electric91> IT’S GONNA START
[15:14:45] <Electric91> i didn’t like the show thing
[15:15:28] <jglauche> yay!
[15:16:54] <Electric91> hf
[15:18:41] <jglauche> what.
[15:19:43] <jglauche> hit over by a car? what!?
[15:20:54] <Electric91> i bet it’s not true
[15:21:08] <Electric91> there’s more to it
[16:01:06] <Electric91> ARE YOU GUYS HAPPY NOW?!!
[16:01:33] <Electric91> See what’s happened?!!
[16:02:18] <Electric91> Dum dum dum dum dum dum........
[16:02:25] <Electric91> Now we’re in trouble guys!
[16:02:40] <Electric91> dum dudrums dum dum dum..
[16:03:06] <flicky> Wow
[16:03:09] <jglauche> mistress. of course.
[16:03:30] <Electric91> That’s a great opening of an episode
[16:03:32] <Electric91> wEll
[16:03:35] <Electric91> It was fine
[16:04:12] <Electric91> But do you guys think that all those episodes where there was “missy” at the end of them…. We’ll see it next time?
[16:04:46] <Electric91> Like, all the bad stuff again? But again, it’s an afterworld of some sort… It feels like Doomsday except with other people in it;
[16:04:58] <Electric91> Like a little recycled to me.
[16:05:15] <jglauche> I don't understand one thing
[16:05:35] <Electric91> What
[16:05:36] <jglauche> the humans produce a constant supply of dead bodies, why kill that constant supply now?
[16:05:48] <Electric91> Because they’re being cremated
[16:05:54] <Electric91> So they supress their “emotions” and pain
[16:05:57] <Electric91> By making them a cyber
[16:05:59] <Electric91> Did you geddit?
[16:06:03] <jglauche> no.
[16:06:30] <Electric91> I don’t get what you don’t get man
[16:06:32] <Electric91> mang
[16:06:33] <jglauche> take all cremation facilities 
[16:06:50] <flicky> They didn't say anything about killing all living humans, did they?
[16:07:00] <Electric91> Yeah, indeed, they’re not KILLING the dead
[16:07:01] <jglauche> hm, indeed
[16:07:04] <Electric91> The skeletons could still move
[16:07:17] <Electric91> They just put them in the water and applied paste, like the doctor said at first
[16:07:24] <Electric91> Then they turned them into cybers… To supress the pain
[16:07:31] <Electric91> But it’s not something for their good
[16:07:41] <Electric91> It’s for the “mistress”. He’s using them 
[16:07:52] <Electric91> Surely to get back in the other world with cybers, it’s gonna be something like that again
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[16:08:46] <Electric91> That’s why it feels a lot like doomsday.
[16:11:33] <Electric91> right
[16:11:46] <Electric91> i’m done. I think it’s just recycled.
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[16:47:38] <Electric91> Hey cntrational 
[16:47:44] <Electric91> What’d you thin of tonights?
[16:51:29] <cntrational> hayo
[16:51:47] <cntrational> i'm only partway through, not caught up
[16:52:04] <cntrational> two series in, i think
[16:53:21] <Electric91> Oh.
[16:53:30] <jglauche> welcome to *spoilers*
[16:56:19] <Electric91> Yeah, be careful cntrational 
[16:56:23] <Electric91> Specially with tonights ep
[16:57:40] <cntrational> of course
[17:01:25] <Electric91> Non spoilers alert, i didn’t really like it and I think moffat is lacking ideas now
[17:01:57] <Electric91> It would have been better that he makes something a lot bigger and slept on this season to make something gigabig next season and send us loud tardis bombs.
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[17:10:49] <Kliment> Gender bender cliffhanger ender!
[17:11:16] <Electric91> How’d you like it, Kliment ?
[17:12:04] <Kliment> Fucked up
[17:12:47] <Electric91> Dude, it just feels like a doomsday to me. I don’t like where this is going.
[17:13:11] <Kliment> So a virtual world where all the dead people are, and they get to delete themselves if they want to, but the nonvirtual world transmits whatever happens to their body to them, magically
[17:13:35] <Kliment> And because it's a simulation, all of that is under the computer's control
[17:13:37] <Electric91> They still need an explanation about the “feeling what happens to the dead"
[17:13:52] <Kliment> So they're just torturing the dead for no good reason
[17:14:02] <Electric91> They? It’s the “mistress”
[17:14:17] <Electric91> Not sure he/she cares about humans 
[17:14:18] <Kliment> And the associated organization
[17:14:29] <Kliment> Oh yeah, and the master is gay for the doctor
[17:14:36] <Electric91> The thing is, it just feels like a reversed doomsday
[17:14:47] <Electric91> Where the doctor is gone into another dimension (almost) 
[17:15:12] <Electric91> That's wy i'm not liking this a lot
[17:15:25] <Electric91> But else, it was a good introduction and all
[17:18:24] <Kliment> So all the cremation facilities are cyberman conversion stations?
[17:19:42] <Electric91> Yeah?
[17:20:17] <Kliment> I thought they needed living victims
[17:21:55] <Kliment> Did anyone get the thing with the eye shape?
[17:22:13] <Electric91> They’re already dead. It’s just that they feel what is happening from their DEAD body
[17:22:30] <Electric91> They’re somehow emotionally connected to their bodies, still.
[17:22:34] <Electric91> The eye shape?
[17:25:14] <Kliment> 3W logo is shaped like cyberman eye
[17:25:58] <Electric91> Oh, I didn’t truly notice!
[17:26:23] <Electric91> I knew there were going to be cybermen, like, 4/5 episodes away..
[17:26:43] <Electric91> It was just obvious that they were going to do something with them. It’s been a big season they haven’t been used
[17:26:56] <Electric91> And since we had “inside the dalek” before… >_>
[17:35:27] <Kliment> But how are cybermen "upgrading" the dead?
[17:35:36] <Kliment> I thought they needed living victims
[17:38:49] <Electric91> They’re apparently not dead… They said in the episode like “live the rest of your life” or so, as if they get a 2nd chance at living
[17:39:29] <Electric91> And they’re not really forcing them, did you see Danny? They’re giving them the choice…
[17:39:44] <Electric91> Like, why didn’t this guy force him to become a cyberman? They don’t usually GIVE them the choice
[17:44:56] <Kliment> Too tired to consider this now
[17:46:16] <Electric91> Haha
[17:46:36] <flicky> In Danny's case it's clear what he'd choose though, maybe the way it's presented depends on their exact situation
[17:47:06] <flicky> So it always looks like they have a choice, but they're always put in a situation where they will choose to "delete"
[17:47:06] <Electric91> Yes Flicky… But i think they want them to delete themselves, i doubt danny will
[17:47:39] <Electric91> How many times did danny hesitate for so many things though
[17:47:55] <Electric91> Yes, Flicky, and it’s unusual..
[17:48:16] <Electric91> The last time we saw the Master, he practically raped through the humans to make them drones
[17:48:34] <Electric91> It’s really weird he became a softie and gave them a “choice” about something as becoming a Cyberman.
[17:48:40] <flicky> We can't judge 'til we've seen the last part though, really
[17:48:44] <Electric91> Eh
[17:48:51] <flicky> It might be leading up to something
[17:48:52] <Electric91> I just feel it’s a refurbished “Doomsday”
[17:49:00] <Electric91> I’m on my guards, for now.
[17:49:05] <flicky> I don't really see the similarity to Doomsday
[17:49:23] <Electric91> They’re going to get the cybermans on the other way to the earth, etc etc
[17:49:43] <flicky> Not quite sure what you mean by "on the other way to the earth"
[17:49:51] <Electric91> Because they’re almost in another dimension here
[17:50:00] <Electric91> Or at least, the point where clara is most likely to meet danny
[17:50:14] <Electric91> So they’re not exactly in another dimension, but almost, before the afterlife, you kow?
[17:50:20] <Electric91> know*
[17:50:21] <flicky> Oh, OK
[17:57:48] <ladymondegreen> okay, i'm ready to do my rewatch? can someone in here PM me and tell me whether or not the channel is safe?
[17:58:00] <Electric91> It’s not safe i promise.
[17:58:04] <Electric91> Mainly cuz of me
[17:58:10] <Electric91> But i can shut up for 50 min :p
[17:58:27] <ladymondegreen> if you all are still discussing the most recent episode I'll do my marathon and live commentary another day
[17:58:37] <ladymondegreen> erm, yeah, marathon, not rewatch
[17:58:39] <Electric91> No, it’s ok.  Do your marathone :)
[17:58:40] <ladymondegreen> words are hard
[17:58:45] <Electric91> Go ahead
[17:58:57] <Electric91> No one else was speaking else than Kliment , flicky  and i
[17:59:06] <ladymondegreen> ahh, slow day
[18:03:05] <ladymondegreen> okay, everything queued up
[18:03:16] <Electric91> :)
[18:03:31] <ladymondegreen> so we're starting with season 8, episode 4
[18:03:44] <ladymondegreen> and all i hope is that it isn't as bad as robot of sherwood
[18:04:12] <ladymondegreen> cross legged ontop of the tardis
[18:04:15] <ladymondegreen> nice shot
[18:04:27] <ladymondegreen> oh dear lord....dramatic monologue to himself
[18:05:14] <ladymondegreen> tardis on the bottom of the ocean. dramatic...overly so
[18:05:56] <ladymondegreen> this is a pretty ridiculous monlogue
[18:06:23] <ladymondegreen> god damn, if moffat wrote this ep, then i already know what the monster will be
[18:06:53] <ladymondegreen> he's doing the vashta nerada / silence crap all over again
[18:06:58] <ladymondegreen> with a new monster
[18:07:04] <ladymondegreen> just like he did a few episodes ago
[18:07:12] <ladymondegreen> nice that clara's getting a life though
[18:07:43] <ladymondegreen> wow...this is a super awkward date
[18:08:37] <Electric91> Episode 4: Listen – Written by Steven Moffat
[18:08:57] <ladymondegreen> god damnit
[18:09:07] <ladymondegreen> he did this in episode 1 already this year
[18:09:36] <Electric91> Moffat disappoints me hard this season. And I always backed him up before. Ok, carry on.. 
[18:09:41] <ladymondegreen> okay, so he's sensitive about his background
[18:11:27] <ladymondegreen> hahaha, you've taken your makeup off
[18:13:15] <ladymondegreen> i do find it annoying that moffat simultaneously insists on making the doctor the most absent minded man ever, and one who notices everything
[18:14:30] <ladymondegreen> why does he do this? he could tell her beforehand, instead of simply demand that she put her hands in something and only after wards tell you what
[18:14:46] <ladymondegreen> dont get distracted, you're flying a time machine
[18:14:52] <ladymondegreen> like he's ever taken that advice
[18:15:18] <ladymondegreen> 10$ says that it wont be her childhood but her date's
[18:15:32] <ladymondegreen> yup
[18:16:24] <ladymondegreen> god, he's unimaginative
[18:18:19] <ladymondegreen> so the doctor is going to steal his coffee
[18:18:32] <ladymondegreen> theres no other reason to ask that
[18:18:46] <ladymondegreen> yup. he has
[18:19:21] <ladymondegreen> also, all that bullshit about the tardis psychic construct reading her mind
[18:19:45] <ladymondegreen> and then it magically figures out from her mind something she cant possibly know
[18:20:17] <ladymondegreen> she is good with children
[18:20:32] <ladymondegreen> must say, that is a very convenient characteristic to give her
[18:21:20] <ladymondegreen> 10$ says its the doctor
[18:22:05] <ladymondegreen> oh, its not the doctor
[18:22:17] <ladymondegreen> then thats a very unimaginative monster
[18:25:36] <Bubo> Damnit tumblr
[18:25:45] <Bubo> why you post spoilers why
[18:25:56] <ladymondegreen> she's very good with children
[18:26:17] <Bubo> ok, I'm gonna go watch the latest ep
[18:26:21] <ladymondegreen> oh god, i really hope she's not the reason he becomes a soldier
[18:26:49] <Bubo> IT looks like ladymondegreen has just begun her marathon *waves* see you in about an hour
[18:26:56] <ladymondegreen> yes, i have
[18:27:33] <ladymondegreen> oh god, or maybe the doctor is why he became a soldier
[18:28:15] <ladymondegreen> i really hope not
[18:28:54] <ladymondegreen> and i do not like my surname
[18:29:09] <ladymondegreen> good god, he's setting up to marry her off and have her change her name
[18:29:50] <ladymondegreen> oh shit....she called him by his childhood name
[18:29:57] <ladymondegreen> which she isn't supposed to know
[18:30:38] <ladymondegreen> "i dont do weird"
[18:30:42] <ladymondegreen> wrong writer kid
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[18:31:03] <ladymondegreen> why is the doctor in that stupid uniform he got from mars?
[18:31:18] <ladymondegreen> for a uniform that reminds him of a lot of deaths, he wears it a lot
[18:31:39] <ladymondegreen> oh shit
[18:31:42] <ladymondegreen> not the doctor
[18:31:46] <ladymondegreen> that was clever
[18:32:26] <ladymondegreen> oh shit.....awesome pink from 100 years in the future
[18:34:09] <ladymondegreen> not a terrible excuse for how he got to the end of the universe
[18:34:37] <ladymondegreen> but why would a time shot not only shoot him into the future but accross all of space and time
[18:35:03] <ladymondegreen> okay, so he's lying about the tardis recharging
[18:35:37] <ladymondegreen> there's only three people at the end of the universe, and you're lying to two
[18:35:42] <ladymondegreen> that's not a bad line
[18:36:45] <ladymondegreen> oh god, he's definitely danny's kid
[18:36:55] <ladymondegreen> awesome pink
[18:37:45] <ladymondegreen> so he's her kid too. at least that's the implication
[18:37:58] <ladymondegreen> or danny finds out about the doctor, travels a bit and then has kids without clara
[18:38:10] <flicky> "awesome"...
[18:38:13] <ladymondegreen> do you have your own mood lighting now?
[18:38:16] <ladymondegreen> lol
[18:39:32] <ladymondegreen> if you'd like, i can pop ahead and check them out
[18:39:33] <ladymondegreen> lol
[18:39:55] <ladymondegreen> i suppose tat's one way to be a good matchmaker...cheat
[18:40:21] <ladymondegreen> okay, kinda a callback to midnight
[18:40:59] <ladymondegreen> "did we come to the end of the universe because of a nursery rhyme?"
[18:43:29] <ladymondegreen> cloister bell, well timed
[18:44:57] <ladymondegreen> the lighting in this episode outside the tardis reminds me of Hide
[18:45:14] <ladymondegreen> was it Hide where they went to the 1940s for the psychic?
[18:45:27] <ladymondegreen> i cant believe she's doing this whole thing in spiked heels
[18:45:34] <ladymondegreen> and there's not short either
[18:45:42] <ladymondegreen> but sure, run around, time travel, climb ladders
[18:46:46] <ladymondegreen> oh god....she's in the doctor's childhood?
[18:47:07] <ladymondegreen> fuck...she was thinking about the doctor and hopeing he was okay
[18:47:15] <ladymondegreen> oh god, and she just gave him his nightmare
[18:47:18] <ladymondegreen> that's hilarious
[18:47:26] <ladymondegreen> that i was not expecting
[18:47:37] <ladymondegreen> hahahahaha
[18:49:18] <ladymondegreen> well, at least they've reached some sort of parity
[18:49:24] <ladymondegreen> unless the doctor cheats and look
[18:49:31] <ladymondegreen> which knowing him, he probably will
[18:50:28] *** Joins: Timeroot (Timeroot@hide-6DBC632C.caltech.edu)
[18:51:14] <mjr> wrote out a drabble I'd had the idea for before since the present episode kinda reminded of it; https://plus.google.com/u/0/102876446579320034186/posts/ffxmeRMLZRZ
[18:51:56] <ladymondegreen> wait, so she leaves the doctor the figurine
[18:52:11] <ladymondegreen> interesting
[18:52:28] <ladymondegreen> okay, quick pause then i'll start episode 5
[18:53:13] <ladymondegreen> i was surprised by this episode,
[18:53:15] <ladymondegreen> pleasantly so
[18:53:33] <ladymondegreen> but a large part of that was because i was expecting the standard moffat trope
[18:54:15] <ladymondegreen> and it would be really nice if moffat's work could surprise me without having to lay down and beat a trope to death and then act like he's going to repeat it again before feinting
[18:55:05] <ladymondegreen> i did like it though
[18:55:17] <ladymondegreen> and i liked that clara got to be the hero, without being self sacrificial
[18:55:28] <ladymondegreen> or sacrificed by the doctor
[18:55:36] <ladymondegreen> that's getting to be rare for companions these days
[18:55:48] <ladymondegreen> and i liked that the episode ended with her keeping a secret from the doctor
[18:56:00] <ladymondegreen> given how many episodes have ended with the doctor keeping secrets from her
[18:56:07] <ladymondegreen> anyone, starting episode 5
[18:57:10] <ladymondegreen> i like clara attempting to teach the doctor human norms
[18:57:20] <ladymondegreen> the tardis phone is ringing
[18:57:24] <ladymondegreen> the outside one
[18:58:02] <ladymondegreen> "its just a phone clara, nothing happens when you answer the phone
[18:58:04] *** Quits: flicky (Mibbit@hide-3B3B8A16.range109-153.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[19:01:38] <ladymondegreen> damn, i wish i'd downloaded a copy with subtitles
[19:04:44] <ladymondegreen> so, security is checked every room
[19:05:04] <ladymondegreen> which means if they can manipulate it, the bank will turn against the people inside
[19:06:42] <ladymondegreen> okay, clara is wearing flats
[19:06:54] <ladymondegreen> which means she's already agreed to rob the bank
[19:06:59] *** Quits: Timeroot (Timeroot@hide-6DBC632C.caltech.edu) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
[19:07:12] <ladymondegreen> this slo mo thing is super annoying
[19:07:19] <ladymondegreen> stop trying to force dramatics
[19:07:38] <ladymondegreen> hmm, this alien in prison orange reminds me of star wars
[19:08:00] <ladymondegreen> also reminds me of the 10th doctor episode with the beast
[19:08:37] <ladymondegreen> so the animal in prison orange is a "teller"
[19:08:41] <ladymondegreen> very clever
[19:09:18] <ladymondegreen> your next of in will be informed and incarcerated
[19:09:55] <ladymondegreen> so the woman running the bank...she's definitely one of this type
[19:10:06] <ladymondegreen> for some reason, all powerful women follow this type in new who
[19:10:12] <ladymondegreen> not just moffat
[19:10:47] <ladymondegreen> think of whats her name running torchwood when the cyberman invaded
[19:11:12] <ladymondegreen> the only woman who doesn't fit this pattern who's powerful is the PM of England
[19:12:19] <ladymondegreen> I still dont understand why you're in charge / basically, its the eyebrows
[19:12:20] <ladymondegreen> heh
[19:12:29] <ladymondegreen> he is good at writing quips
[19:12:57] <ladymondegreen> dimensional shift bomb
[19:13:38] <Electric91> Oh, i love time heist
[19:15:57] <ladymondegreen> hmm....he deleted his friends and family
[19:16:00] <ladymondegreen> how could you do that?
[19:16:06] <ladymondegreen> i dunno, i suppose i must have loved them
[19:16:14] <ladymondegreen> that's heartbreaking
[19:16:50] <ladymondegreen> oh...she cant touch anyone without turning into them
[19:16:54] <ladymondegreen> that explains the gloves and hood
[19:17:12] <ladymondegreen> "could you trust someone who looked back at you our of your own eyes?"
[19:17:37] * Bubo returns
[19:17:40] <ladymondegreen> see...you dont need huge overly dramatic monologues to be powerful
[19:17:49] <Bubo> What ep are you up to  now?
[19:17:51] <ladymondegreen> both of those moments, the hacker and hers, were powerful becaue they were powerful ides
[19:17:55] <ladymondegreen> *ideas
[19:18:01] <Bubo> oh the bank one
[19:18:01] <ladymondegreen> i'm on 5 - time heist
[19:18:47] * Bubo just finished watching the latest ep
[19:18:56] <ladymondegreen> powerful ideas delivered simply and realistically
[19:19:01] <ladymondegreen> and not laboured over
[19:19:06] <ladymondegreen> they were human moments
[19:19:47] <Bubo> I just saw a post Captioned "I just found the TARDIS" https://40.media.tumblr.com/5ef81db9c28172e66a02d939fb55d662/tumblr_mtvm0yylEw1r3sgz9o1_500.jpg
[19:20:01] <ladymondegreen> oh jeez, they arent going to kill her as soon as she reveals her idea
[19:20:07] <Bubo> 'Oh look it's full of recycled garbage just like the show'
[19:20:30] <ladymondegreen> oh god, ...and they draw it out and include the phrase "a good man"
[19:20:35] <ladymondegreen> can we not?
[19:21:22] <ladymondegreen> is it possible for anyone to die without either sacrificing them for the doctor, being sacrified by someone else for the doctor, speaking about him as they day or going on and on about "a good man"
[19:21:54] <ladymondegreen> seriously...each death is like pure doctor wank
[19:22:01] <ladymondegreen> okay, so she's not a director
[19:22:09] <ladymondegreen> erm, not the director of the bank
[19:22:22] <ladymondegreen> which means that its possible for them to be hired by the director
[19:22:26] <ladymondegreen> that would make sense
[19:22:29] <ladymondegreen> "the architect"
[19:23:03] <ladymondegreen> the over dramatic lighting is super annoying
[19:23:11] <ladymondegreen> everything is either bathed in blue or red
[19:23:16] <ladymondegreen> or blue one minute and red the next
[19:23:29] <ladymondegreen> that and the slow mo
[19:24:07] <ladymondegreen> i dont know if that's the need better directors, or that they need better writing. writing that doesn't depend on these super long dramatic moments
[19:24:32] <ladymondegreen> okay, so hacker guy is going to go back for clara and sacrifice his life for her
[19:24:41] <Bubo> That ep was directed by the same guy as Listen
[19:25:12] <ladymondegreen> that was clever pulling up a database of criminals
[19:25:32] <ladymondegreen> and the over dramatic music 
[19:25:38] <ladymondegreen> really, its just a trifecta
[19:25:51] <Bubo> ladymondegreen; I think the other timeagent from torchwood pops up in that database
[19:26:03] <ladymondegreen> the equivalent is like a small cake, an inch tall covered with a foot of icing
[19:26:06] <ladymondegreen> its just too much
[19:26:23] <ladymondegreen> Bubo: ooh, i'll have to rewatch that scene later
[19:26:26] <Bubo> ladymondegreen; Looking at other eps that guy has directed, it's the writing that needs am improvemnt
[19:26:54] <ladymondegreen> Bubo: yeah, that's my guess. moffat's scripts just aren't enough
[19:27:10] <ladymondegreen> you get two lines that are supposed to last a couple minutes
[19:27:36] <Bubo> He also directed the Sontartan/poison sky eps, power of three and cold way
[19:27:47] <ladymondegreen> now they're bathed in green
[19:27:54] <ladymondegreen> cold war you mean?
[19:28:05] <Bubo> yeh, sorry typod
[19:28:53] <Bubo> As well as listen, 
[19:29:09] <ladymondegreen> neophyte circuit
[19:29:25] <ladymondegreen> three boxes
[19:29:27] <Bubo> He also directed one of hte later eps in this series, which is regarded as quite decent
[19:30:14] <ladymondegreen> one for the hacker, one for the woman, one for the doctor and clara
[19:30:23] * Bubo should try and compile some database of writers/directors
[19:30:23] <ladymondegreen> which means either she came for him, or he came for her
[19:30:30] <ladymondegreen> and another last of its kind
[19:30:40] <ladymondegreen> Bubo: the tardis wiki already has a pretty good one
[19:30:44] <Bubo> possibly corelated with some sort of rating
[19:31:05] <Bubo> Yeh, I can probably pull data easily from there
[19:31:27] <ladymondegreen> okay, so they didnt die
[19:32:49] <ladymondegreen> "someone likes to hang out with their wealth"
[19:32:53] <ladymondegreen> that's hilarious
[19:34:23] <ladymondegreen> oooh....director caarabraxis clones herself
[19:34:37] <ladymondegreen> and kills off her clones when the disappoint her
[19:35:44] <ladymondegreen> ah, the director is the architect
[19:36:27] <ladymondegreen> ahh...no, i was right at first, she is
[19:37:40] <ladymondegreen> 6 teleports, 2 for them the first time, 4 for them to go up again
[19:38:26] <ladymondegreen> really, too many aliens feed on memory
[19:39:39] <ladymondegreen> okay, so he's the architect, but she's the one who hired them
[19:40:36] *** Quits: JoeRiker (IceChat9@hide-CEB2598E.netcologne.de) (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
[19:40:46] <ladymondegreen> not the last of its kind
[19:40:51] <ladymondegreen> the last two
[19:41:20] <ladymondegreen> hmm....very much like Hide
[19:41:35] <ladymondegreen> ahh, 6 shredders, they aren't one use
[19:41:41] <ladymondegreen> that was a silly assumption on my part
[19:43:06] <ladymondegreen> "calories consumed on the tardis don't have any lasting effect"
[19:45:35] <ladymondegreen> you know, i appreciate that doctor who is doing better racial wise
[19:45:44] <ladymondegreen> instead of the all white Who of the last few years
[19:46:14] <ladymondegreen> but still...it would be nice if it could happen without playing into certain tropes
[19:47:27] <ladymondegreen> three black characters this season. 1 grew up without family in a foster home, 2 is basically a duplicate of 1, and 3 was a criminal
[19:47:40] <ladymondegreen> this wouldnt be an issue if there were more black characters
[19:47:51] <ladymondegreen> but moffat has magically made england all white the last few years
[19:48:13] <ladymondegreen> the only exceptions being a group of brothers who were criminals and who tormented each other
[19:48:36] <ladymondegreen> Liz 10 is the only black character who hasn't played into any awful racial tropes
[19:48:48] <ladymondegreen> she's also the only female character who hasn't playing into any awful gender tropes
[19:49:32] <ladymondegreen> then again, moffat thinks the Beast Below was his worst episode so
[19:49:39] <ladymondegreen> maybe thats why
[19:49:52] <Bubo> ...
[19:49:57] <Bubo> far from his worst
[19:50:32] <ladymondegreen> and of course in sherlock, all you have is the one black redshirt, and then the black mother with her druggie son
[19:50:37] <ladymondegreen> really, its bad
[19:51:02] <ladymondegreen> and its kinda pathetic that this season, a season with 3 black characters, two super tropey, and 1 barely a character is the best
[19:51:11] <ladymondegreen> anyway, let me get more tea and i'll start episode 6
[19:52:10] <ladymondegreen> okay, let's go
[19:52:14] <ladymondegreen> man, i wish i had some chocolate
[19:53:24] <ladymondegreen> okay, so they're on a planet with two suns
[19:53:42] <ladymondegreen> the vibro cutters are in the pocket of her other jacket at home
[19:53:49] <ladymondegreen> the sun pahryas
[19:54:30] <ladymondegreen> motage of recent adventures and dates
[19:55:03] <ladymondegreen> why are you being nice? / because it works on you
[19:55:39] <ladymondegreen> oh, clara can close the doors of the tardis by snapping too
[19:56:15] <ladymondegreen> oh hey, the school does have black students too
[19:56:31] <ladymondegreen> holy crap, that's the first time i've seen black extras in a lot of years in who
[19:56:35] <ladymondegreen> NPCs
[19:56:49] <ladymondegreen> i think i'm going to start calling extras NPCs
[19:56:59] <Bubo> haha
[19:57:21] <Bubo> Ah, you are on...
[19:57:33] <ladymondegreen> oh, and some of them have natural hair. last time i saw that was when martha's family was around
[19:57:35] <Bubo> Whoops mixed up the ep there
[19:57:35] <ladymondegreen> episode 6
[19:58:01] <ladymondegreen> the caretaker
[19:59:01] <ladymondegreen> you're wearing a different coat
[19:59:26] <Bubo> Given what you just said, Be interesting what you make of some of the later eps this season
[19:59:38] <Bubo> Ep 9 in particualr
[19:59:42] <ladymondegreen> "you cannot pass yourself off as a human being among actual human beings"
[19:59:48] <ladymondegreen> lol, he lived with otters
[20:00:05] <ladymondegreen> he and River had a fight and he went to live with otters
[20:00:07] <ladymondegreen> okay
[20:00:07] <Bubo> There is beautiful fanart of that
[20:00:33] <ladymondegreen> wow, a lot of black NPCs
[20:00:42] <ladymondegreen> being harassed by a white cop
[20:00:47] <ladymondegreen> well, that's realistic
[20:01:12] <ladymondegreen> and now the police officer will be attacked by an alien or something
[20:01:22] <ladymondegreen> ohh....dress manikens
[20:01:34] <ladymondegreen> last time we saw those was, what? Rose?
[20:01:41] <Bubo> yeh
[20:01:48] <ladymondegreen> and he's disintigrated except for the hand
[20:01:51] <ladymondegreen> while always the hand
[20:02:14] <Bubo> Last time we saw auton or dressmannikens
[20:02:24] <Bubo> How do you spell that anyway
[20:02:51] <ladymondegreen> no clue
[20:03:28] <Bubo> mannequin
[20:03:39] <ladymondegreen> lol, i like that she's agreeing to whatever people want
[20:03:45] <ladymondegreen> that's gonne bite her in the arse
[20:04:20] <ladymondegreen> is she pouring water on the ground where he's workin on electronics
[20:04:32] <ladymondegreen> this is going to go badly
[20:05:03] <hexium> ok gonna stay out of here but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx-F4dz1BrY
[20:05:58] <ladymondegreen> oh, he thinks she likes the shakespeare teacher because of the bow tie
[20:06:26] <ladymondegreen> uggh, really?
[20:07:58] <ladymondegreen> keep out = go away humans
[20:08:29] <ladymondegreen> "havent you got shoplifting to do?"
[20:08:50] <ladymondegreen> holy crap, did the doctor just say that?
[20:09:12] <ladymondegreen> great moffat, thanks for making the doctor your racist mouthpiece
[20:09:14] <Bubo> say what?
[20:09:16] <ladymondegreen> i so appreciate it
[20:09:28] <Bubo> the shoplifting line?
[20:09:31] <ladymondegreen> Bubo: the girl who went to the caretakers room asking for towels
[20:09:34] <ladymondegreen> Bubo: yeah
[20:11:16] <ladymondegreen> only suitably empty place in the vacinity?
[20:11:25] <ladymondegreen> how the hell is a school full of kids an "empty place"
[20:13:36] <ladymondegreen> and mr pink is still at the school
[20:13:45] <ladymondegreen> and he just removed one of the things
[20:13:52] <ladymondegreen> which is going to wreck the doctor's plans
[20:14:07] <ladymondegreen> and clara is at the school looking for the doctor
[20:14:21] <ladymondegreen> okay, so this is how donny finds out about the doctor
[20:14:50] <ladymondegreen> now he's talking down both of them
[20:15:09] <ladymondegreen> oh dear
[20:16:13] <ladymondegreen> and clara saved donny
[20:16:57] <Electric91> That episode is probably one of my least appreciated ones.
[20:17:03] <Electric91> I already forgot about it, it’s meh.
[20:17:07] <Electric91> So is robin hood..
[20:17:35] <Bubo> Yeh, it just serves to carry clara/danny
[20:17:40] <Bubo> Almost said donna
[20:17:48] <ladymondegreen> heh
[20:18:06] <ladymondegreen> good lord, clara is a terrible liar
[20:18:40] <ladymondegreen> he's your space dad
[20:18:42] <ladymondegreen> hahahahaha
[20:19:16] <ladymondegreen> "you've made a boyfriend error"
[20:19:26] <Electric91> Yeah, it isn’t such a great episode overral
[20:19:33] <ladymondegreen> they have really got to stop this whole doctor / clara thing
[20:20:01] <ladymondegreen> i was just thinking earlier that it was nice that they'd stopped with the whole doctor / clara pairing
[20:20:38] <Bubo> thing is, Moffat see that as the point of hte companion
[20:20:43] <ladymondegreen> i did like the doctor feeding her the "its bigger on the inside" line
[20:20:47] <ladymondegreen> Bubo: i know
[20:21:59] <ladymondegreen> oh good god doctor, stop acting like a weird mix of jealous boyfriend and father
[20:22:01] <ladymondegreen> its creepy as fuck
[20:23:43] <ladymondegreen> i like the blocking of the scene, with clara standing next to donny
[20:24:28] <ladymondegreen> oh dear, this can't end well
[20:24:51] <ladymondegreen> s/danny
[20:25:29] <Electric91> Doctor creep!
[20:26:29] <ladymondegreen> oh god, a dick measuring contest
[20:27:26] <ladymondegreen> oh lord, the kid is back
[20:27:36] <ladymondegreen> this either means she dies, or helps save the day
[20:27:37] <Electric91> That kid is the worst thing ever.
[20:27:51] <Electric91> I hate it when they include children in doctor who.
[20:27:53] <Bubo> Kid?
[20:27:57] <Electric91> Yeah, the black one.
[20:28:03] <ladymondegreen> courtney woods
[20:28:08] <ladymondegreen> hahaha, the too wide face girl
[20:28:14] <ladymondegreen> that's hilarious
[20:28:20] <ladymondegreen> i could totally see her saying that
[20:29:10] <ladymondegreen> and yes, they were unstable
[20:29:12] <ladymondegreen> he had the timing wrong
[20:29:41] <ladymondegreen> and 10$ says that it attacks during parents nights
[20:32:59] <ladymondegreen> and it does, and danny helps
[20:33:43] <ladymondegreen> uggh, this is so patriarchal
[20:34:18] <ladymondegreen> hahaha, he brought courtney to through it back into space?
[20:34:23] <ladymondegreen> hahaha, that's hilarious
[20:34:28] <ladymondegreen> and she threw up
[20:34:37] <ladymondegreen> i approve
[20:34:44] <Electric91> Yeah that really never happens, i don’t like how she bribed him about it and all
[20:35:12] <Electric91> It’s poor to me
[20:36:40] <ladymondegreen> so, note. with doctors 9 and 10, outsiders never understood the doctor
[20:36:51] <ladymondegreen> outsiders were afraid and angry
[20:37:04] <ladymondegreen> with 11 and 12, outsiders see the doctor more clearly then the companion
[20:37:14] <ladymondegreen> it would be nice if that could be mixed upa bit more
[20:37:35] <ladymondegreen> and now we have missy, who apparently also has a whole administrative thing going on
[20:41:41] <ladymondegreen> okay.moving straight on to kill the moon
[20:42:07] <ladymondegreen> also, wait, what happened with those few seconds of the doctor and clara trapped in last episode at the beginning?
[20:42:24] <ladymondegreen> also, kill the moon, day of the moon
[20:43:27] <ladymondegreen> courtney woods
[20:45:01] <ladymondegreen> i must say, i like courtney woods
[20:47:26] <ladymondegreen> i like how easily bored courtney gets
[20:48:03] <ladymondegreen> why does he have a yoyo in his space suit?
[20:49:24] <ladymondegreen> is she taking pictures?
[20:50:28] <ladymondegreen> okay, so people wen to the moon and drilled
[20:50:35] <ladymondegreen> and they discovered something, or freed something
[20:50:40] <ladymondegreen> some sort of creature
[20:50:53] <ladymondegreen> that did something and suddenly made the moon weigh a lot more
[20:51:31] <ladymondegreen> the creature has something to do with cobwebs
[20:51:44] <ladymondegreen> the cobwebs trapped the crew
[20:51:47] <ladymondegreen> they died screaming
[20:52:24] <ladymondegreen> there was a ten year gap between the expedition and.....the moon weighing more? or the rescue team going up?
[20:52:31] <ladymondegreen> thats not clear
[20:53:08] <ladymondegreen> and the moon is without minerals
[20:53:52] <ladymondegreen> fissures are deeper
[20:53:58] <ladymondegreen> the moon is falling to bits
[20:54:06] <ladymondegreen> doesnt explain the no minderals thing
[20:54:26] <ladymondegreen> but if i have to guess, that will be explained by some creature eating all the minerals or it won't actually be explained at all
[20:55:03] <ladymondegreen> i'm going to take a stab in the dark and guess at some sort of alien beetle
[20:55:11] <ladymondegreen> that eats minerals
[20:55:23] <ladymondegreen> ahh, arachnid, not beetle
[20:55:38] <ladymondegreen> i thought they wouldn't go that obvious given spider webs, but i was wrong
[20:56:11] <ladymondegreen> the arachnid cant see, it can sense movement. and it has these red light up things
[20:56:19] <ladymondegreen> and it just killed joe
[20:56:25] <ladymondegreen> and cournet didnt run
[20:56:40] <ladymondegreen> also, gravity just vanished and now courtney is floating 
[20:56:44] *** Joins: Pfisiar (~Aaron@hide-75977B45.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net)
[20:57:14] <ladymondegreen> which coincided with the arachnid climbing to the ceiling
[20:57:32] <ladymondegreen> so maybe the arachnid can manipulate gravity so that it can climb
[20:57:52] <ladymondegreen> okay, so the arachnid is a germ
[20:57:56] <ladymondegreen> or sometimes a germ
[20:58:02] <ladymondegreen> its mass isnt stable
[20:58:21] <Electric91> :D
[20:58:27] <ladymondegreen> and something about the woman astronauts family
[21:00:03] <ladymondegreen> okay, and now we're getting a different explanation for time
[21:00:31] <ladymondegreen> there are moments he cant see
[21:00:38] * ladymondegreen rolls her eyes
[21:00:47] <ladymondegreen> and now courney is going to press somethnig
[21:00:52] <ladymondegreen> because she's a kid
[21:00:57] <ladymondegreen> a kid whos scared, but not enough
[21:01:00] <Electric91> Yeah, that’s weird, given he can see through all the time etc
[21:01:32] <ladymondegreen> why the new explanation? why not stick with the old "now that we're a part of the timestream...." crap they've used for ages?
[21:02:13] <ladymondegreen> and the windex didn't work on this arachnids
[21:02:59] <ladymondegreen> amniotic fluid, so....maybe one big arachnid that's pregnant?
[21:03:53] <ladymondegreen> well, apparently tumblr is going to be popular for a while
[21:04:25] <Bubo> The math on that comment didn't add up though
[21:05:53] <ladymondegreen> okay, so pregnant alien
[21:06:17] <ladymondegreen> and the moon is an egg
[21:06:23] <ladymondegreen> that's different than my first guess
[21:06:36] <Bubo> no one guessed that
[21:06:43] <ladymondegreen> my first guess, a couple minutes into the episode was that there was a pregnant alien in the middle
[21:07:06] <Pfisiar> oh, you're pretty far behind, ladymondegreen?
[21:07:11] <ladymondegreen> yeah
[21:07:13] <Pfisiar> ok, silly statement
[21:07:18] <ladymondegreen> i'm in the middle of my catch up marathon
[21:07:28] <Pfisiar> I just finished the season 8 finale part 1
[21:07:34] <Pfisiar> but I'll not say a word
[21:07:39] <Electric91> don't
[21:07:46] <Electric91> or i’m missying your mouth
[21:07:59] <Pfisiar> the episode you're watching turned out better than I expected though
[21:08:34] <ladymondegreen> you cannot blame a baby for kicking
[21:09:00] <ladymondegreen> i like courtney
[21:09:28] <Pfisiar> heh, me too
[21:10:49] <ladymondegreen> the president of america 
[21:10:50] <ladymondegreen> heh
[21:11:02] <Bubo> somehow
[21:11:08] <ladymondegreen> looks like the show is finally beginning to recognise the end of the british empire
[21:11:16] <Bubo> besides being born in England
[21:11:42] <ladymondegreen> that's the first time the american president is the one who's been suggested as an authoity
[21:12:01] <Bubo> But the 'my grandmother used to post on tumblr' line doesnt add up
[21:12:34] <ladymondegreen> Bubo: tumblr is gonna be around for a while
[21:13:01] <ladymondegreen> also, man, the whole kill hitler thing is super annoying
[21:13:05] <Bubo> ladymondegreen; I meant the age of the actress and the year od the ep
[21:13:24] <Electric91> The hitler thing…….. Pffft
[21:13:25] <Electric91> It annoys me so bad
[21:13:28] <Electric91> Just drop the thing
[21:13:30] <ladymondegreen> Bubo: why doesnt it add up?
[21:13:53] <ladymondegreen> its 2400, right?
[21:13:56] <Bubo> Year is 2049
[21:14:04] <ladymondegreen> ohhh....no, wait, what?
[21:14:09] <Bubo> yeh..
[21:14:12] <ladymondegreen> its 2049? holy shit, that makes no sense
[21:14:19] <ladymondegreen> none of the history for the episode makes sense then
[21:14:57] <ladymondegreen> so...sometime in the next 30 years, all countries discontinue their space programs, and there's no commercial space flight
[21:15:01] <ladymondegreen> except for mexico
[21:15:04] <ladymondegreen> who sends a team up
[21:15:05] <ladymondegreen> who dies
[21:15:26] <ladymondegreen> no one goes after them, because space travel is done
[21:15:33] <ladymondegreen> honestly....that all makes no sense
[21:15:34] <Pfisiar> in the next 30 years, we might have more pressing concerns
[21:15:47] <Pfisiar> like a lack of petroleum
[21:15:49] <Pfisiar> etc
[21:16:15] <Pfisiar> running out of Phosphorus for fertilizer
[21:16:15] <Bubo> The Actress playing the astronaut is 47
[21:16:28] <Bubo> So whe would be about 12 now,
[21:16:29] <ladymondegreen> Bubo: yeah, i know that bit makes no sense at all
[21:16:35] <Bubo> tumblr exists now
[21:16:46] <ladymondegreen> doesnt make sense unless the actress is like, 2
[21:17:03] <Bubo> hmm
[21:17:10] <Pfisiar> man
[21:17:10] <Bubo> this was originally a 11 ep
[21:17:22] <Pfisiar> you have 25 year olds play 16 year olds
[21:17:24] <ladymondegreen> also, those lights are turning off in large blocks...that means cities are turning the grids off
[21:17:43] <Bubo> Pfisiar; True, but it's not convincing
[21:18:12] <Bubo> the really confusing part is when you have attractive 25 year olds playing 16 year olds
[21:18:36] <ladymondegreen> okay, 10 bucks says that the the creature will hatch, and leave, and the shell will fold in on itself and look like the moon
[21:18:49] <ladymondegreen> because moffat is terrible at long term consequences
[21:19:34] <ladymondegreen> also, aren't their episodes at a later date time line wise where they go to the moon
[21:19:39] <Pfisiar> the actual solution resembles that but is a bit more elegant
[21:19:48] *** Joins: cntrational (~cntration@D5903D9A.210D8E15.31483E21.IP)
[21:19:52] <Pfisiar> elegant?
[21:19:57] <Pfisiar> that doesn't look right
[21:20:20] <ladymondegreen> until the end of the time
[21:20:28] <ladymondegreen> not sure if thats a veiled reference or not
[21:21:19] <ladymondegreen> so, courtney and clara are responsible for all of human kind exploring
[21:21:35] <ladymondegreen> okay, so it lays a new egg
[21:21:43] <ladymondegreen> like i said, he sucks at long term consequences
[21:21:54] <Pfisiar> it is better than what you were suggesting
[21:22:01] *** Quits: cntrational (~cntration@D5903D9A.210D8E15.31483E21.IP) (Quit: leaving)
[21:22:03] <Pfisiar> I mean, yeah it is kind of deus ex
[21:22:18] <ladymondegreen> that arched eyebrow
[21:23:02] <ladymondegreen> i like the books on the stairs
[21:23:26] <Bubo> you sitll on kill the moon?
[21:23:31] <Bubo> on in the TARDIS?
[21:23:35] <ladymondegreen> yes
[21:23:36] <Bubo> I like those books too
[21:23:44] <Pfisiar> I love Clara's reaction to the doctor at the end
[21:24:15] <ladymondegreen> "dont you ever lump me in with all the other humans you think are so tiny and silly"
[21:24:44] <ladymondegreen> you know what i liked about 9? he really respected humans, was in awe of them
[21:24:50] <ladymondegreen> 10 did too, most of the time
[21:25:15] <ladymondegreen> but 11 and 12 are kinda arrogant arseholes who have disdain for humanity 
[21:25:20] <yazdmich_3spoopy5me> OH MY FUCKING DOCTOR
[21:25:28] *** yazdmich_3spoopy5me is now known as yazdmich
[21:25:34] <Pfisiar> It's not a disdain so much as it is impatience
[21:25:44] <yazdmich> IS MISSY...THE MASTER?
[21:25:47] <yazdmich> don't tell me
[21:25:58] <Pfisiar> a friend of mine says that 12th doctor's teaching is a lot like 7s
[21:26:26] <ladymondegreen> "had a really bad day" .... somehow i suspect we'll hear about that later
[21:27:47] <ladymondegreen> clara was right of course, the doctor only claims humanity when it's convenient
[21:27:56] <ladymondegreen> okay, onto episode 8
[21:28:06] <ladymondegreen> wow, this dude is gonna be dead any second
[21:28:18] <ladymondegreen> dramatic phone fall
[21:29:21] <ladymondegreen> uggh, hang on, phone call
[21:31:14] <Bubo> yazdmich; ladymondegreen is behind
[21:32:05] <Bubo> like, is marathoning a bunch of eps
[21:32:44] <ladymondegreen> k, i'm back
[21:33:07] <ladymondegreen> that was an excellently timed phone call 
[21:33:10] <ladymondegreen> right during the credits
[21:33:41] <ladymondegreen> ooh, who's the writer of the orient express?
[21:34:00] <yazdmich> no
[21:34:01] <yazdmich> NO
[21:34:05] <yazdmich> NO
[21:34:06] <Bubo> Jamie Mathieson
[21:34:13] <ladymondegreen> have they written any other who?
[21:34:27] <Bubo> They wrote ep 8 and 9
[21:34:33] <ladymondegreen> ooh...the door has shrunk
[21:34:39] <ladymondegreen> or they have grown
[21:34:41] <Bubo> but nothing before
[21:34:52] <ladymondegreen> the whole tardis shrunk
[21:34:56] <ladymondegreen> and only one door opens
[21:35:24] <Bubo> But a few eps of Being Human, the becoming human webisodes and a dirk gently ep
[21:35:41] <ladymondegreen> erm, the british being human, or the american?
[21:35:46] <Bubo> british
[21:36:09] <Bubo> Which I don't think you have watch, iirc
[21:36:14] <Pfisiar> oh BBC America is showing Grahm Norton
[21:36:16] <Pfisiar> thrill
[21:36:21] <ladymondegreen> Bubo: no, i haven't
[21:36:32] <ladymondegreen> was a HUGE fan of the american version though
[21:37:00] <Bubo> I havne't seen the american version at all
[21:38:20] <ladymondegreen> oooh, now the tardis is really tiny
[21:38:42] <Pfisiar> I thought you were watching mummy on the orient express
[21:38:46] <Pfisiar> this sounds like flatline
[21:38:51] <ladymondegreen> thats hilarious
[21:38:56] <Bubo> ladymondegreen; you skipped an ep
[21:39:03] <ladymondegreen> oh shit, thanks for that catch
[21:39:30] <Bubo> But both 8 and 9 are written by the same person
[21:39:52] <ladymondegreen> okay, now i'm watching mummy on the orient express
[21:39:59] <ladymondegreen> and there's a clock
[21:40:01] <ladymondegreen> and a train
[21:40:27] <ladymondegreen> and only the old lady can see the mummy
[21:40:30] <Bubo> Thats directed by the same guy as Kill the Moon
[21:40:55] <ladymondegreen> yeah, this director really likes these slow mo shots with burred edges
[21:41:24] <ladymondegreen> yeah, doctor who has a new casting director or something
[21:41:27] <ladymondegreen> it isnt just the school
[21:41:43] <ladymondegreen> multiple non-white NPCs on the train, even though its an upper class thing
[21:41:50] <ladymondegreen> and some are passengers, they're not all crew
[21:42:39] <ladymondegreen> and clara has a wig
[21:43:23] <ladymondegreen> "its like two emotions at once, like you're malfunctioing"
[21:43:36] <ladymondegreen> good one to end on?
[21:43:44] <ladymondegreen> so this is supposed to be their last trip?
[21:44:06] <ladymondegreen> magellan black whole
[21:44:14] <Pfisiar> clara says it is
[21:44:23] <Pfisiar> the doctor and dany don't believe her
[21:44:32] <ladymondegreen> Pfisiar: shh, no spoilers
[21:44:59] <Pfisiar> that's not exactly a spoiler
[21:45:08] <ladymondegreen> Pfisiar: still, shhh
[21:45:13] <Pfisiar> yeah
[21:46:36] * Bubo marathons WTNV
[21:46:52] <ladymondegreen> being escorted back to her room....that's never good
[21:47:15] <Pfisiar> wtnv?
[21:47:26] <Bubo> I need ot marathon walking dead, but it's so damn depressing
[21:47:55] <Pfisiar> don't read the comics then
[21:49:00] <ladymondegreen> i love the doctor talking to himself
[21:49:09] <ladymondegreen> you just lost 24% 
[21:49:56] <ladymondegreen> i love how he tells himself "i was being rhetorical"
[21:50:04] <ladymondegreen> and he chooses not to wake clara up
[21:50:10] <ladymondegreen> but clara is up anyway
[21:50:19] <Pfisiar> 12 is great at talking to himself
[21:51:42] <ladymondegreen> does clara only have one outfit?
[21:52:06] <ladymondegreen> oh dear, ms. pitt....walking around with one shoe
[21:52:50] <ladymondegreen> and apparently, hitting a computer lock with a high heel breaks it and the lock opens
[21:53:03] <ladymondegreen> tech has gone downhill seriously in the future
[21:54:04] <ladymondegreen> ooh, another red shirt
[21:54:08] <ladymondegreen> this time a cook
[21:54:22] <ladymondegreen> yeah, seriously, they've got a new casting director or something
[21:54:33] <ladymondegreen> the npcs are really much better blanaced
[21:55:23] <ladymondegreen> one of the books is an older black gentleman. there's an indian man as part of the crew. a black bartender. at least two black guests, , no wait, three
[21:55:30] <ladymondegreen> two women, one older, and one man
[21:56:23] <ladymondegreen> really, its a HUGE improvement
[21:56:33] <ladymondegreen> there's a new head producer this year right?
[21:56:42] <Bubo> I think so
[21:56:50] <ladymondegreen> 10 bucks says the change is due to the new producer
[21:57:01] <ladymondegreen> hope he doesn't scare this one off
[21:57:06] <Bubo> ladymondegreen is making bank this season
[21:57:07] <ladymondegreen> i like the changes i've noticed
[21:57:29] <ladymondegreen> Bubo: unfortunately, bets against an irc channel don't actually pay off
[21:58:47] <ladymondegreen> why are the trains documents actual pieces of paper?
[21:58:59] <ladymondegreen> this is supposed to be a high tech train
[21:59:19] <Pfisiar> because fetishism for the old fashioned train I suspect
[21:59:20] <ladymondegreen> and clara just lampshaded the episodes failure to pass bechdel
[21:59:44] <ladymondegreen> that does not amuse me
[21:59:48] <ladymondegreen> that just pisses me off more
[22:00:01] <ladymondegreen> so...a train full of professors and doctors
[22:00:52] <ladymondegreen> and the doctor is once again a fairy tale figure
[22:02:26] <ladymondegreen> sarcaphogus
[22:02:36] <ladymondegreen> this cant end well
[22:03:08] <ladymondegreen> they're also carrying old fashioned guns
[22:03:38] <ladymondegreen> and another death
[22:03:59] <ladymondegreen> convienently timed to give the doctor an alibi
[22:04:25] <ladymondegreen> yeah, seriously, these are very diverse NPCs
[22:05:36] <ladymondegreen> chinese, a few people from southeast asia
[22:05:40] <ladymondegreen> i'm impressed
[22:06:01] <ladymondegreen> also, a variety of ages and sizes
[22:06:27] <Electric91> Mummy on the orient express is pretty cool
[22:06:40] <Electric91> So is Flatline, the one after it. They were the most pleasant to me! Very innovative
[22:07:26] <Pfisiar> I haven't seen flatline yet
[22:07:30] <Pfisiar> don't know why
[22:08:05] <ladymondegreen> grief counseling is available on request
[22:08:54] <yazdmich> what is that line from again?
[22:09:09] <ladymondegreen> mummy on the orient express
[22:09:13] <yazdmich> ah
[22:09:17] <ladymondegreen> the computer says it after the fourth death
[22:09:21] <Bubo> I need to catch up on some youtube vids as well
[22:09:40] <ladymondegreen> shit, and the computer just killed off the cooks
[22:10:12] <Pfisiar> there's something coming up that I laughed at
[22:10:17] <Pfisiar> not telling what it is
[22:10:23] <Pfisiar> but I suspect you'll catch it
[22:11:28] <ladymondegreen> 10$ says the captain has ptsd
[22:11:53] <ladymondegreen> damn, he does
[22:12:34] <ladymondegreen> okay, so the mummy appears, in shimmered into place
[22:12:41] <ladymondegreen> and passed through the doctor
[22:12:51] <ladymondegreen> wow, that was a creepy cool shot
[22:13:12] <Pfisiar> yeah I like the side characters in this ep
[22:13:19] <ladymondegreen> the hand passing throught the doctors head
[22:13:31] <Pfisiar> yeah
[22:13:32] <Bubo> there has been some good cinematography and effects this season
[22:13:40] <Bubo> as well s bad ones
[22:13:42] <ladymondegreen> the soldier with ptsd did far better than the scientist at dying
[22:13:58] <Pfisiar> there's some weird cinematography this season
[22:14:20] <Pfisiar> I'm not entirely surprised
[22:14:31] <ladymondegreen> its got something to do with the life support machine
[22:14:34] <ladymondegreen> i think
[22:14:40] <hexium> MOFFAT YOU BASTARD
[22:14:49] <ladymondegreen> hexium: shhhh
[22:15:35] <ladymondegreen> so pitt is next
[22:16:04] <Bubo> hexium; yeh, ssh, ladymondegreen is liveblogging (?) a marathon
[22:16:15] <ladymondegreen> wow, the engineer is not happy with the doctor
[22:16:26] <ladymondegreen> and clara lied
[22:16:35] <Pfisiar> nobody is happy with the doctor this season
[22:16:40] <ladymondegreen> and shes thinking about taking her on the tardis and saving her
[22:16:44] <ladymondegreen> but she doesnt
[22:16:47] <ladymondegreen> why no?
[22:16:49] <ladymondegreen> why not?
[22:17:16] <ladymondegreen> oh, shit
[22:18:03] <hexium> oh I just realized lady is liveblogging a different episode
[22:18:23] <ladymondegreen> holy shit, that's one way to try and make it up to clara
[22:18:30] <ladymondegreen> "are you my mummy?"
[22:18:33] <ladymondegreen> really moffat?
[22:18:35] <ladymondegreen> really?
[22:18:58] <Pfisiar> oh come on, what's wrong with that easter egg?
[22:19:05] <Bubo> it was funny but forced
[22:19:26] <ladymondegreen> the problem is that moffat forces easter eggs all the time
[22:19:32] <Pfisiar> not as forced as David Tennant doing it while wearing a gask mask
[22:19:49] <Pfisiar> though that was more tennant being funny
[22:20:05] <Bubo> yeh, and he was wearing a gas mask
[22:20:17] <Bubo> he also wasnt in immediate danger
[22:20:46] <ladymondegreen> jesus
[22:21:57] <ladymondegreen> that's not a funny joke doctor
[22:22:15] <ladymondegreen> because its too believable
[22:22:26] <Pfisiar> yeah, when 12 tells a joke, it is never a good thing
[22:22:54] <ladymondegreen> yeah, you dont joke about letting everyone die, when its totally possible that you couldnt save everyone and are trying to cover
[22:22:56] <ladymondegreen> 12 would
[22:22:59] <ladymondegreen> absolutely
[22:23:03] <ladymondegreen> you dont make that joke
[22:23:19] <ladymondegreen> but we wont know unless we see one of the other characters
[22:23:32] <ladymondegreen> and...ahah, the engineer 
[22:24:02] <ladymondegreen> ooh, offering perkins a role as his companion?
[22:24:07] *** nisscream is now known as nisstyre
[22:25:48] <ladymondegreen> oh....clara, you liar
[22:26:25] <Bubo> I would have liked perkins as a companion
[22:26:40] <ladymondegreen> see, part of the problem with the whole "you can be away as long as you want and then show up the moment you left" thing is all the phone calls
[22:26:50] <ladymondegreen> the problem is that the phone calls seem to be relativistic
[22:27:17] <Pfisiar> I do like that they've stopped explaining the super phone thing
[22:27:19] <ladymondegreen> if person on earth calls person in tardis after a day, it will be a day later for the person in the tardis as well
[22:27:22] <ladymondegreen> and vice versa
[22:27:27] <Pfisiar> same with the psychic paper
[22:27:46] <ladymondegreen> so, if someone calls you and you're on the tardis you already know that the doctor didnt deliver you home on time
[22:27:58] <ladymondegreen> okay, small break, then 9
[22:28:14] <Pfisiar> the phone worked differently in the 50th anniversary thing
[22:28:16] <Bubo> I think you will like 9 
[22:28:18] <Pfisiar> if you recall
[22:28:22] <Pfisiar> inconsistencies
[22:28:31] <Pfisiar> you probably won't like 10 though
[22:28:57] <Bubo> Same writer as 8, same director as 4 and 5 
[22:30:10] <Electric91> It’s true, i don’t like the fact they can just “call” the doctor
[22:30:18] <Electric91> I loved it a lot more when the doctor was really hard to reach
[22:30:40] <Electric91> Now it’s like he’s just a phone call away, even if he takes time to answer
[22:30:50] *** Parts: Electric91 (Electrico@hide-62AEFEE2.coditel.net) ()
[22:31:02] *** Joins: Electric91 (Electrico@hide-62AEFEE2.coditel.net)
[22:31:16] <ladymondegreen> okay, starting episode 9 again
[22:31:29] <Electric91> Oh, you’re on the last one… Nice
[22:31:35] <ladymondegreen> buzzing sound, and npc dies, or turns into an image
[22:31:36] <Electric91> Did you like it, ladymondegreen ?
[22:31:45] <Bubo> Didn't answer ith the front phone in the first 2013 clara ep?
[22:31:59] <Electric91> Wait, episode 9, which one is it again?
[22:32:01] <Bubo> Electric91; 9 isnt' the latest
[22:32:05] <ladymondegreen> yeah, the muted lighting, the dramatic dropped phone, the tilt of the camera to reveal the image, the focus out then in
[22:32:05] <Bubo> Flatline
[22:32:10] <ladymondegreen> i dont like this director
[22:32:15] <ladymondegreen> its too overwrought
[22:32:32] <Electric91> Flatlines idea was cool, but i agree, it’s not that well directed
[22:32:52] <ladymondegreen> this does make the beginning of 9 make more sense. so she's clearing all her stuff off the tardis because she hasnt told danny she's still galavanting about, and she's lying
[22:33:00] <ladymondegreen> god, clara is a terrible liar
[22:33:06] <Electric91> Haha
[22:33:24] <Electric91> Ironically, they show her like a good liar in earlier seasons when she made her small appearances..
[22:33:30] <ladymondegreen> i do like "ish" as a noun and "ishy" as an adverb though
[22:33:31] <ladymondegreen> fun
[22:34:10] <ladymondegreen> capaldi is a great phsyical actor though
[22:34:14] <Bubo> Hmm I'm gonna go food, then maybe marathon an old show I like
[22:34:32] <ladymondegreen> ooh, claras wearing tennis shoes again!
[22:34:34] <ladymondegreen> thank god
[22:34:44] <ladymondegreen> the running around in heels was getting to be a bit much
[22:35:20] <ladymondegreen> so...she asked the doctor if it was an addiction
[22:35:26] *** Joins: Timeroot (Timeroot@hide-52C7E257.caltech.edu)
[22:35:27] <ladymondegreen> because she was afraid it was
[22:35:31] <ladymondegreen> and he couldnt answer her
[22:35:41] <ladymondegreen> and rather than find out, she kept going
[22:35:45] <ladymondegreen> chicken shit, but i get it
[22:36:17] <ladymondegreen> yeah, definitely doing better with the NPCs
[22:38:13] <ladymondegreen> that is an adorable tardis
[22:38:31] <ladymondegreen> though...why didnt the racial make-up change until episode 4?
[22:38:44] <Pfisiar> the tardis should be tiny more often
[22:39:19] <ladymondegreen> or, when does she meet Danny?
[22:39:31] <ladymondegreen> episode 3 or 2?
[22:39:57] <ladymondegreen> i must admit, the special effects on this episode are hilarious
[22:40:03] <ladymondegreen> police siren was that?
[22:40:30] <ladymondegreen> hahahaha
[22:40:34] <ladymondegreen> i'm "the doctor"
[22:40:36] <ladymondegreen> that's hilarious
[22:41:02] <ladymondegreen> i'm usually quite vague about it, i think i picked the title because it makes me feel important
[22:41:10] <ladymondegreen> yes, keep trolling him clara
[22:41:12] <ladymondegreen> this is fun
[22:41:35] <ladymondegreen> hmm....dirt patch drawing on the wall
[22:41:38] <ladymondegreen> or painting
[22:41:41] <ladymondegreen> looks like desert
[22:41:43] *** Joins: Timeroot_ (Timeroot@hide-52C7E257.caltech.edu)
[22:42:51] <ladymondegreen> the phone is back on the hook
[22:44:15] <ladymondegreen> "i'm from the race that built the tardis, dimensions are our thing"
[22:44:19] <ladymondegreen> hahahaha
[22:44:40] *** Quits: Timeroot (Timeroot@hide-52C7E257.caltech.edu) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
[22:45:27] <ladymondegreen> dammit, the woman cop is gonna be next
[22:45:44] <ladymondegreen> seriously, the music and directing plays the hand way too advance
[22:46:13] <ladymondegreen> oky, it looks like liquid, chameleon, liquid
[22:48:05] <ladymondegreen> okay, so a two dimensional creature, experimenting on humans tryng to understand three dimensions
[22:48:13] <ladymondegreen> or living, sentient things in three dimensions
[22:49:59] <ladymondegreen> i cant believe she held onto her phone through all that
[22:50:04] <ladymondegreen> that's quite impressive
[22:51:02] <ladymondegreen> so, he thought that clara was a good liar
[22:51:21] <ladymondegreen> when in fact, he tuned her out and didn't listen
[22:52:39] <ladymondegreen> oooh...crabby guy beats the psychic paper not by being smart, but by having no immagination
[22:53:24] <ladymondegreen> if thats true, then i cant understand why psychic paper doesn't malfunction more often
[22:55:12] <ladymondegreen> the name of this episode is a terrible pun
[22:55:33] <ladymondegreen> oh...this is perfect
[22:55:42] <ladymondegreen> she can use the street artists to communicate
[22:56:33] <ladymondegreen> heh, pi joke
[22:56:58] <ladymondegreen> i like pi jokes
[22:57:31] <ladymondegreen> "look like your numbers up"
[22:57:41] <ladymondegreen> the guy with no imagination would say that unironically
[22:58:49] <ladymondegreen> he's going to give her a bomb
[22:58:55] <ladymondegreen> OMG! i just realised!!
[22:59:21] <ladymondegreen> the doctor in the mini tardis in clara's purse....its mary poppins bag!!!!
[22:59:27] <ladymondegreen> not, a bomb, a 2dis
[22:59:42] <ladymondegreen> lol, the doctor was way too enamoured of the pun
[23:00:06] <ladymondegreen> holy shit....., what was that?
[23:00:15] <ladymondegreen> its gone 3d?
[23:01:05] <ladymondegreen> and its shooting fire from its hands
[23:01:14] <ladymondegreen> fire that makes 2d stuff three d
[23:01:35] <ladymondegreen> wow....the visualisation of these aliens is brilliant and gorgeous
[23:01:48] <ladymondegreen> oh shit...grump guy just screwed everything up
[23:02:11] <ladymondegreen> hang on, thought i heard something, i want to replay that scene
[23:02:29] <ladymondegreen> the images jolting and fading, and wavering...its very cool
[23:02:56] <ladymondegreen> what pumps stuff out these days?
[23:03:01] <ladymondegreen> damn, that accent is thick
[23:03:41] <ladymondegreen> so...its stealing the tardis's dimensional energy
[23:03:52] <ladymondegreen> but.....it was killing people before
[23:04:14] <ladymondegreen> oooh, very clever clara
[23:04:25] <ladymondegreen> hahaha, the mini tardis and the doctors hand
[23:04:29] <ladymondegreen> thats HILARIOUS
[23:05:34] <ladymondegreen> oh shit....yes, save the train clara
[23:06:30] <ladymondegreen> oh, no, the kid is going to steal the train
[23:06:39] <ladymondegreen> clara, clara, notice that he's left the group
[23:06:40] <ladymondegreen> please notice
[23:06:50] <ladymondegreen> dammit clara
[23:07:13] <ladymondegreen> thank you!!
[23:08:00] <ladymondegreen> so clara is the brave young teacher who helps young black kids find their worth
[23:08:17] <ladymondegreen> interesting, seige mode
[23:08:26] <ladymondegreen> looks very much like the communicator cubes
[23:08:33] <Bubo> Also like the pandorica
[23:08:35] <ladymondegreen> last seen in, what? the doctors wife?
[23:08:38] <InitHello> ladymondegreen: by the way, do you still need that laptop?
[23:09:00] <Bubo> I think we've seen the cubes since then, but unsure,
[23:09:06] <ladymondegreen> also looks a bit like the whats it called box from the beginning of season 5 too
[23:09:07] <Bubo> that may have been fanart
[23:09:13] <ladymondegreen> Bubo: LOL
[23:09:23] <ladymondegreen> InitHello: i'll PM you
[23:09:27] <InitHello> ok
[23:09:43] <Bubo> Also a reseblence to something else, but I cleared my history and can't remember
[23:10:10] <ladymondegreen> Bubo: by that did you mean browser history or brain fart?
[23:10:11] <Bubo> but there's an interesting reseblance to some sort of other fictional/theoretical cube
[23:10:19] <Bubo> browser
[23:10:20] <ladymondegreen> i do not know what clara's plan is
[23:10:35] <ladymondegreen> this is the first episode in a while where i didn't have most of the episode guessed out in advance
[23:10:39] <ladymondegreen> so kudos on that
[23:11:04] <ladymondegreen> this really is a total mirror of most episodes
[23:11:08] <ladymondegreen> clara is the doctor
[23:11:31] <ladymondegreen> the doctor is helpless somewhere and cant do anything but despair and attempt to send final messages
[23:11:40] <ladymondegreen> ooh, clara, you clever, clever, clever
[23:12:01] <ladymondegreen> clara, you are a very smart woman
[23:12:03] <ladymondegreen> i approve
[23:12:06] <ladymondegreen> that was elegant
[23:12:32] <Bubo> ah
[23:12:37] <Bubo> ladymondegreen; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemarchand%27s_box
[23:13:22] <ladymondegreen> but of course, couldnt leave that alone, needed to give the doctor a huge triumphant speech about who he is and have him finish them off
[23:13:34] <ladymondegreen> really? you couldnt just let clara take it over the finish line?
[23:13:41] <ladymondegreen> or at least avoid the huge speech?
[23:14:18] <InitHello> well of course not, clara is female, that just wouldn't do
[23:14:33] <ladymondegreen> maybe the wrong people survive
[23:14:52] <ladymondegreen> has that been so obviously said since the titanic episode?
[23:15:46] <ladymondegreen> so clara did hear him
[23:16:08] <ladymondegreen> that means that she got as good at ignoring him but actually listening as he is with her
[23:16:11] <ladymondegreen> very balanced
[23:16:51] <ladymondegreen> oh, that line
[23:17:02] <ladymondegreen> you were an exceptional doctor clara, goodness had nothing to do with it
[23:17:14] <ladymondegreen> "clara, my clara, I have chosen well"
[23:17:16] <Bubo> ah I found one of the dvds of the show I wanted to watch
[23:17:18] <ladymondegreen> wut?
[23:18:00] <ladymondegreen> alright...should i start forest of the night now?
[23:18:06] <ladymondegreen> or should i make predictions first
[23:18:17] <ladymondegreen> i dont really have any predictions
[23:18:25] <ladymondegreen> except of course, clara has to fess up to danny
[23:18:38] <ladymondegreen> which means of course that they'll both be companions now
[23:18:54] <ladymondegreen> danny has already had a prove yourself episode
[23:19:09] <ladymondegreen> so this will be more about bonding with the doctor and finding a mutual understanding
[23:19:15] <ladymondegreen> and seeing how well he likes adventure
[23:19:23] <ladymondegreen> and whether he and the doctor can trust each other
[23:19:51] <ladymondegreen> honestly, it reminds me a lot of rory
[23:20:13] <ladymondegreen> rory has his moment in the eleventh hour
[23:20:25] <ladymondegreen> though its a brain moment and not a physical one
[23:20:36] <ladymondegreen> amy, like clara met the doctor ages before
[23:20:45] <ladymondegreen> though rory at least new about the doctor and danny didnt
[23:21:01] <ladymondegreen> rory was, as far as things go, fairly unflappable
[23:21:06] <ladymondegreen> danny was....not
[23:21:17] <ladymondegreen> though, rory found out in the middle of a time crunch danger
[23:21:23] <ladymondegreen> whereas danny had time to stew
[23:22:37] <ladymondegreen> rorys first proper adventure as companion was the shithole that was venice
[23:22:57] <ladymondegreen> here, he had to prove that he could keep up, and that he'd risk himself for amy
[23:23:12] <ladymondegreen> and that he wouldnt be overly jealous or bitter
[23:23:14] *** Quits: Timeroot_ (Timeroot@hide-52C7E257.caltech.edu) (Ping timeout: 184 seconds)
[23:23:18] <ladymondegreen> his next adventure was amy's choice
[23:23:41] <ladymondegreen> now this is quite different
[23:23:53] <ladymondegreen> or at least, my hope is that it is
[23:24:04] <ladymondegreen> but there are only, what, 3 episodes left this season?
[23:24:10] <ladymondegreen> its a 12 episode season?
[23:24:14] <ladymondegreen> or no?
[23:24:19] <Bubo> Uh
[23:24:30] <Bubo> Thes the forest one, then a 2 part finale
[23:24:38] <Bubo> Of which part 1 has aired
[23:24:51] <ladymondegreen> dammit, whats the name of episode 11?
[23:24:58] <ladymondegreen> i should start downloading it before i start 10
[23:24:59] <Bubo> Dark Water
[23:30:50] <ladymondegreen> okay, download going
[23:34:15] <ladymondegreen> so...that means there are three episodes left for clara to leave
[23:34:26] <ladymondegreen> sure, they could do something sudden at the end, kill her off, or pull a donna
[23:34:33] <Bubo> has that been confirmed though?
[23:35:01] <ladymondegreen> that she's leaving at the christmas episode? yes
[23:35:27] <Bubo> hmm ok
[23:35:38] <ladymondegreen> they could even pull a sarah jane
[23:36:01] <Bubo> There was some 'clara oswald never existed' thing in a trailer
[23:36:13] <Bubo> but thats probably just some stupid plot point
[23:36:45] <Bubo> Considering their relationshop has been rather rocky
[23:37:17] <ladymondegreen> although... hmm, the last episode is airing in november
[23:37:25] <ladymondegreen> so, is there a christmas one off after that?
[23:37:28] <ladymondegreen> okay, whatever
[23:37:34] <ladymondegreen> anyway, a few eps for clara to leave
[23:37:41] <ladymondegreen> baring some sudden plot twist at the last minute
[23:37:46] <Bubo> My guess is on christmas
[23:37:59] <ladymondegreen> i'm kinda worried that these next episodes with clara and danny are going to be a bit like amy's choice
[23:38:19] <ladymondegreen> or like dammit, whats the one where they're trapped in the hotel that isnt a hotel?
[23:39:01] <ladymondegreen> the one they used to retcon in that the crack was ongoing and the doctor was afraid of it
[23:39:27] <ladymondegreen> or of course, they'll get married and she'll get pregnant
[23:39:32] <Electric91> lol
[23:39:33] <Electric91> hahaha
[23:39:36] <Electric91> pregnant sarah
[23:39:37] <Electric91> i mean clara
[23:39:44] <ladymondegreen> moffat does so love heterosexual, 2.5 children and a white picket fence bliss
[23:39:55] <ladymondegreen> the god complex
[23:39:58] <ladymondegreen> that's what its caled
[23:40:02] <ladymondegreen> *called
[23:40:03] <Electric91> Yeah, true dat… I’m going to sleep here… Had fun listening to you… Goodnight :)
[23:40:09] <ladymondegreen> anyway, going to start epsode 10 now
[23:40:15] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: see you later, glad you liked it!
[23:40:23] <Electric91> ;)
[23:40:29] *** Parts: Electric91 (Electrico@hide-62AEFEE2.coditel.net) ()
[23:41:42] <ladymondegreen> okay outdoors
[23:41:44] <ladymondegreen> woods
[23:41:51] <ladymondegreen> a little girl running with a backpack
[23:41:56] <ladymondegreen> in a school uniform
[23:42:04] <ladymondegreen> waving her hands in front of her face
[23:42:12] <ladymondegreen> and then here's the tardis and the doctor
[23:42:46] <ladymondegreen> coke, sugar?
[23:42:48] <ladymondegreen> really?
[23:42:57] <ladymondegreen> woah...whats with this dierection
[23:44:24] <ladymondegreen> holy shit
[23:44:30] <ladymondegreen> forest in trafalger swquare
[23:44:35] <ladymondegreen> that is so fucking awesome
[23:44:46] <ladymondegreen> wow. thats so cool
[23:45:07] <Bubo> I'm sad they don't show the giant blue rooster
[23:47:28] <ladymondegreen> okay, i'm back
[23:47:33] <ladymondegreen> had to pause for a sec
[23:47:43] <ladymondegreen> frank contrell-bryce...he written for who before?
[23:48:14] <ladymondegreen> i do like the unusual angles...but not when its dizzying
[23:48:33] <Bubo> no he hasnt
[23:48:49] <ladymondegreen> all the other rings are thin, but this ones fat
[23:48:55] <Bubo> but he wrote the opening ceremony for the olympics
[23:49:07] <ladymondegreen> well, that will be important shortly
[23:49:18] <ladymondegreen> so, they're going to walk out and discover the forest where there was none?
[23:49:41] <ladymondegreen> yes
[23:50:01] <ladymondegreen> wow, that would be such a cool thing to wake up to
[23:50:06] <ladymondegreen> oh, man, the WHOLE PLANET?
[23:50:57] <ladymondegreen> she probably has a name
[23:51:12] <Bubo> who?
[23:51:21] <ladymondegreen> maeve
[23:51:41] <ladymondegreen> an aforestation crisis?
[23:51:57] <ladymondegreen> thats hilarious
[23:52:47] <ladymondegreen> i thought you said they're in love, why are they shouting at each other?  / that's what people do when they're in love, dont you know anything?
[23:52:54] <ladymondegreen> the sad part is, moffat absolutely believes that
[23:53:38] <ladymondegreen> so, danny didnt agree to an adventure with the doctor
[23:53:52] <ladymondegreen> and their conversation implies that she's actually stopped seeing the doctor
[23:54:30] <ladymondegreen> i really wish the sonic would stop looking so incredibly phallic
[23:54:43] <ladymondegreen> this little girl is adorable
[23:54:46] <ladymondegreen> and smart
[23:56:36] <ladymondegreen> how do we find X?
[23:57:57] <ladymondegreen> that's how this planet grows, a series of catastrophes
[23:58:03] <ladymondegreen> sad, but quite true
[23:58:58] <ladymondegreen> hahaha, a whole class of kids in the tardis
[23:59:09] <ladymondegreen> this is hilarious
[23:59:31] <ladymondegreen> there was a forest, then there wasnt a forest, nothing surprises us anymore
[23:59:34] <ladymondegreen> thats hilarious
[23:59:39] <ladymondegreen> a class of jaded kids
[23:59:59] <ladymondegreen> maeve arden
[00:00:02] <ladymondegreen> arden
[00:00:07] <ladymondegreen> important name
[00:00:37] <ladymondegreen> ooh, and apparently, clara is still travelling with the doctor and danny doesn't know
[00:00:50] <ladymondegreen> "if a child is speaking, listen to it / oh like you listen to us?"
[00:00:58] <ladymondegreen> bad comparison danny
[00:01:12] <ladymondegreen> you just compared you and clara to children
[00:01:21] <ladymondegreen> so, clara doesn't know that she sent maeve, because she didnt intend to
[00:01:33] <ladymondegreen> so, maeve is clearly tuned into some other wavelength
[00:01:39] <ladymondegreen> and probably caused this whole thing
[00:01:54] <ladymondegreen> though why the hell was she drawing pictures of a sun shooting lightening bolts at trees?
[00:02:30] <ladymondegreen> oh, and she just lied to danny again
[00:02:42] <ladymondegreen> gifted and talented / furious, fearful and tonguetied
[00:02:48] <ladymondegreen> not a bad line
[00:03:39] <ladymondegreen> hahahaha
[00:03:49] <ladymondegreen> you're letting your imagination run away with you rube
[00:04:03] <ladymondegreen> i'm not though am i, i dont have an imagination, ask ms oswald
[00:04:05] <ladymondegreen> thats hilarious
[00:04:12] <ladymondegreen> oh, i'm liking the dialogue
[00:04:18] <ladymondegreen> this person writes kids great
[00:04:43] <ladymondegreen> and maeve's mother is biking through the forest
[00:05:35] <ladymondegreen> did he just call himself a compelling masculine figure?
[00:05:54] <ladymondegreen> and maeve is leaving breadcrubs
[00:06:08] <ladymondegreen> and ran straight into a team of people in suits
[00:06:16] <ladymondegreen> why the waving her hands in front of her face?
[00:11:42] <ladymondegreen> fire proof trees
[00:11:42] <ladymondegreen> the wolves of london
[00:11:42] <ladymondegreen> whats with the waving her hands in front of her face?
[00:11:42] <ladymondegreen> i dont get it
[00:11:43] <ladymondegreen> interesting adaptation of the music for this chase scene
[00:12:33] <ladymondegreen> the animals in this, digital or not, are quire excellent
[00:13:54] <ladymondegreen> wow, that is gorgeous
[00:14:12] <ladymondegreen> this shot is just amazing
[00:14:17] <ladymondegreen> the sun
[00:15:55] <ladymondegreen> this voice is too deep and distorted to fully understand
[00:16:33] <ladymondegreen> the deep voice was a mistake
[00:16:39] <ladymondegreen> they should have just let the little girl speak
[00:17:56] <ladymondegreen> finally
[00:18:02] <ladymondegreen> they're going to use the tardis as a lifeboat
[00:18:18] <ladymondegreen> though of course, this wont actually happen, not permanently
[00:19:13] <ladymondegreen> no, they're not going to use the tardis as a lifeboat
[00:19:24] <ladymondegreen> clara just voiced the idea and then changed her mind
[00:19:33] <ladymondegreen> "I dont want to be the last of my kind"
[00:19:40] <ladymondegreen> oh...she was saving him
[00:20:10] <ladymondegreen> balancing out kill the moon nicely
[00:20:50] <ladymondegreen> i'm actually tearing up, nice
[00:21:06] <ladymondegreen> an emotional moment that wasnt totally killed
[00:21:27] <ladymondegreen> i mean, yeah, the music was too much
[00:21:30] <ladymondegreen> but still
[00:22:36] <ladymondegreen> "i assumed your teachers have mentioned this"
[00:22:38] <ladymondegreen> LOL
[00:22:48] <ladymondegreen> "i thought it would spoil an otherwise enjoyable walk"
[00:24:26] <ladymondegreen> yes, and now its the doctor against the government again
[00:24:29] <ladymondegreen> i like that
[00:25:01] <ladymondegreen> this is hilarious
[00:25:11] <ladymondegreen> this is doctor who being a kids show at its very best
[00:27:08] <ladymondegreen> see, and danny's speech
[00:27:16] <ladymondegreen> he sounds SO much like the 9th doctor
[00:28:41] <ladymondegreen> okay, so danny has clearly set himself as capable of handling the doctor, but not at all interested in adventures
[00:29:02] <ladymondegreen> and missy is watching
[00:29:07] <ladymondegreen> "now that was surprising"
[00:29:14] <ladymondegreen> suggests she was there during the flare
[00:29:27] <ladymondegreen> oh, and then the trees just vanish
[00:29:32] <ladymondegreen> total deus ex machina
[00:30:12] <ladymondegreen> the humans are going to forget?
[00:30:14] <ladymondegreen> really?
[00:30:18] <ladymondegreen> even clara and danny?
[00:30:45] <ladymondegreen> and her sister came home
[00:30:52] <ladymondegreen> hiding in the last bush
[00:30:59] <ladymondegreen> totally fairy tale
[00:31:26] <ladymondegreen> i'm not sure if i hope clara is missy or not
[00:33:57] <ladymondegreen> okay, so heads up
[00:34:04] <ladymondegreen> in a few moments i'm going to start episode 11
[00:34:29] <ladymondegreen> my suspicion is that clara will do something large and self sacrificing to save the doctor or the world
[00:34:33] <ladymondegreen> rewrite time maybe
[00:34:48] <ladymondegreen> or vanish or hide
[00:34:56] <ladymondegreen> and i'm torn
[00:35:13] <ladymondegreen> i'm tired of companions leaving in a huge sacrifice
[00:35:20] <ladymondegreen> also could be to save danny
[00:35:33] <ladymondegreen> or be with him
[00:35:34] <ladymondegreen> ala amy and rory the angels save manhattan
[00:35:47] <Bubo> finished downloadin yet?
[00:35:51] <ladymondegreen> but, i'm mostly tired of them not having a choice
[00:35:51] <ladymondegreen> yeah
[00:36:09] <ladymondegreen> they mostly had no agency or very little when they chose
[00:36:24] <ladymondegreen> rose got trapped in the other dimension
[00:36:29] <ladymondegreen> martha chose to leave
[00:36:42] <ladymondegreen> donna had her memory wiped, again, no choice
[00:36:51] <ladymondegreen> amy chose, but it wasn't much of one, not really
[00:36:57] <ladymondegreen> so, i want clara to choose
[00:37:10] <ladymondegreen> i want her to choose something, and have the time to think it through and put a plan in action
[00:37:34] <ladymondegreen> buuuuut, at the same time i dont want her to choose danny. i dont want her to give up adventuring just for him
[00:37:37] <ladymondegreen> i want it to be bigger
[00:37:43] <ladymondegreen> i want her to choose for her
[00:37:55] <ladymondegreen> i know that likely wont happen, but i really, really want it
[00:38:09] <ladymondegreen> okay, and now i'm going to start episode 11, so if you havent seen it, spoilers are a coming
[00:38:17] <ladymondegreen> actually, first, i need socks, my feet are cold
[00:39:28] <ladymondegreen> also, doctor who is much better when marathone
[00:39:29] <ladymondegreen> s
[00:39:33] <ladymondegreen> *marathoned
[00:39:45] <ladymondegreen> because i dont have to think over all the plot holes and inconsistencies for a week
[00:39:59] <ladymondegreen> i dont have to expect X to happen, and then be all WTF?
[00:40:10] <ladymondegreen> well, part of it is very little of an overarching plot
[00:40:16] <ladymondegreen> but part of it is marathoning
[00:40:43] <ladymondegreen> okay, starting series 8, episode 11, dark water in a moment
[00:41:14] <ladymondegreen> shut up shut up shut up
[00:41:18] <ladymondegreen> she sounds like the doctor
[00:41:37] <ladymondegreen> wow, these post it notes
[00:42:02] <ladymondegreen> miniature clara?
[00:42:39] <ladymondegreen> jenny, maise
[00:43:02] <ladymondegreen> and her phone call to danny just ended
[00:43:06] <ladymondegreen> and a woman picked up
[00:43:19] <ladymondegreen> and danny's been hit by a car
[00:43:21] <ladymondegreen> holy crap
[00:43:32] <ladymondegreen> this could motivate her to do something crazy and stupid
[00:43:36] <ladymondegreen> and she has access to a time machine
[00:43:38] <ladymondegreen> she'd do it
[00:43:44] <ladymondegreen> not just his death, but being responsible
[00:43:52] <ladymondegreen> he was listening to her, instead of watching the road
[00:44:31] <ladymondegreen> oh, an ice planet with red thingies
[00:45:25] <ladymondegreen> it wasnt terrible, it was boring, it was ordinary
[00:45:44] <ladymondegreen> not deserved, but owed
[00:45:59] <ladymondegreen> oh shes going to lie to the doctor
[00:46:02] <ladymondegreen> so she can use him
[00:46:10] <ladymondegreen> oh, please let this be good
[00:46:12] <ladymondegreen> dont fuck this up
[00:46:32] <ladymondegreen> time to plan, time to think
[00:46:44] <ladymondegreen> please have planned something excellent
[00:47:12] <ladymondegreen> whoa, interesting flash ahead
[00:47:36] <ladymondegreen> so, now she has both tardis keys
[00:47:44] <ladymondegreen> and she got her to take him to a volcano
[00:47:57] <ladymondegreen> and a tardis key from a book
[00:48:08] <ladymondegreen> and the sleep patches
[00:48:38] <ladymondegreen> all seven
[00:48:51] <ladymondegreen> wow, shes angry
[00:48:56] <ladymondegreen> cloister bell
[00:49:55] <Bubo> boing
[00:51:39] <ladymondegreen> holy crap
[00:51:43] <ladymondegreen> i like this clara
[00:53:15] <ladymondegreen> wow, the doctor is a bit of a controlling dick
[00:54:35] <ladymondegreen> wow...
[00:54:45] <ladymondegreen> "i always meant to look around, find one"
[00:55:06] <ladymondegreen> i really like the doctor and clara's friendship this season
[00:55:19] <ladymondegreen> they really push each other
[00:55:25] <ladymondegreen> and have fights, fights that matter
[00:55:51] <ladymondegreen> no other companion in new who has fought him like this, has been comfortable enough and had enough power to fight him
[00:56:14] <ladymondegreen> not amy, not martha, not rose
[00:56:25] <ladymondegreen> donna probably could have, but never would have
[00:56:38] <ladymondegreen> or would have, but nothing came up
[00:56:46] <ladymondegreen> river didnt either
[00:57:08] <ladymondegreen> 10 betrayed jack and they were friends after, but we never really got to see that
[00:57:32] <ladymondegreen> i must say, hell is very well organised
[00:57:35] <ladymondegreen> "SEB"
[00:58:37] <ladymondegreen> wow
[00:58:43] <ladymondegreen> this shot
[00:59:01] <ladymondegreen> it's like an inverted planet. or no, the middle of a planet
[00:59:26] <ladymondegreen> underworld, nethersphere, promised land
[01:00:34] <ladymondegreen> and they're in....a museum maybe? no, they're n a mausoleam
[01:00:35] <ladymondegreen> at night
[01:00:44] <ladymondegreen> with water
[01:00:47] <ladymondegreen> interesting
[01:01:03] <ladymondegreen> "rest in peace, we promise"
[01:01:07] <ladymondegreen> that's ominous
[01:01:15] <ladymondegreen> or, yanno, good customer service
[01:01:21] <ladymondegreen> not sure which yes
[01:01:29] <ladymondegreen> why skeletons in fish tanks?
[01:01:38] <ladymondegreen> thats very creepy
[01:01:47] <Bubo> skeleton war
[01:01:50] <ladymondegreen> water tombs, or fluid tombs
[01:01:55] <ladymondegreen> xylo jones
[01:02:23] <ladymondegreen> oh...and a skeleton head turned
[01:02:38] <ladymondegreen> ooh, nice book, holo tech
[01:02:55] <ladymondegreen> yup, good customer service
[01:03:21] <ladymondegreen> and here's missy
[01:04:00] <ladymondegreen> what the hell?
[01:04:08] <ladymondegreen> why is missy assaulting the doctor?
[01:04:16] <ladymondegreen> is she kissing his nose?
[01:04:44] <ladymondegreen> mobile systems ntelligence interface
[01:04:47] <ladymondegreen> thats a lie
[01:04:51] <Bubo> I'm gonna og have a shower
[01:04:57] <Bubo> see you in like 15 minutes
[01:05:17] <ladymondegreen> her voice changes and her facial motions changed as soon as she said she was a droid
[01:06:19] <ladymondegreen> "condolences....its a mausoleum, its our hello"
[01:06:56] <ladymondegreen> and there's a big ball that is presumably some sort of surveillance system
[01:07:17] <ladymondegreen> steve jobs dead joke
[01:08:00] <ladymondegreen> yanno, the embryos analogy isnt terrible
[01:08:06] <ladymondegreen> the cord joke is awful but funny
[01:08:33] <ladymondegreen> ahh, and now we're going to find about danny's very bad day
[01:09:37] <ladymondegreen> wow, interesting
[01:09:41] <ladymondegreen> very interestng
[01:10:52] <ladymondegreen> doctor missed the naked person joke
[01:11:38] <ladymondegreen> 3 words
[01:13:47] <ladymondegreen> hmm, but clara waited a long time to get in touch with the doctor...race against body burning?
[01:14:34] <ladymondegreen> after all this buildup, if the three words suck
[01:15:17] <ladymondegreen> so, he's in the morgue now
[01:15:28] <ladymondegreen> the three words didnt suck
[01:16:31] <ladymondegreen> hahaha, the wifi dropped out
[01:17:38] <ladymondegreen> be strong, even if it breaks your heart
[01:18:22] <ladymondegreen> and now the dead aro going to go for a little walk
[01:19:16] <ladymondegreen> and now she's going to kill her assistant
[01:19:35] <ladymondegreen> wow, missy is a psychopath
[01:19:57] <ladymondegreen> why the hell would he say something nice?
[01:20:04] <ladymondegreen> she said she wouldnt kill him until he did
[01:20:08] <ladymondegreen> so why say it?
[01:20:13] <ladymondegreen> and cybermen? wtf?
[01:20:57] <ladymondegreen> whoa, the entire nethersphere is in that floating ball i thought was surveillence
[01:21:21] <ladymondegreen> oh jesus christ
[01:22:02] <ladymondegreen> so he freaked out earlier because she felt the two hearts
[01:22:33] <ladymondegreen> holy shit
[01:23:32] <ladymondegreen> so, now danny wont tell her anything, because he's going to save her from herself
[01:23:59] <ladymondegreen> you go soldier boy
[01:24:16] <ladymondegreen> and clara doesn't even notice the cyberman behind her
[01:24:29] <ladymondegreen> oh, and now he's going to have his emotions neutered
[01:24:44] <ladymondegreen> dont press the button pink
[01:25:17] <ladymondegreen> and now she sees the cyberman
[01:25:20] <ladymondegreen> kick into action clara
[01:25:23] <ladymondegreen> go, go, go go
[01:26:00] <ladymondegreen> and now the cybermen are invading london
[01:26:19] <ladymondegreen> all the graves of planet earth are about to give birth
[01:26:24] <ladymondegreen> that is twisted
[01:27:03] <ladymondegreen> yes! yes!
[01:27:11] <Bubo> ?
[01:27:17] <ladymondegreen> i thought that end of time reference might be hinting at the master coming back
[01:27:24] <Bubo> :D
[01:27:41] <ladymondegreen> god, at least that makes that horrid name make sense
[01:28:16] <ladymondegreen> also, that makes her bizarre speech patterns make sense too
[01:28:25] <ladymondegreen> try hearing those in whats his names voice
[01:28:33] <ladymondegreen> the most recent actor to play the master
[01:28:38] <ladymondegreen> like the old fashioned line
[01:29:22] <ladymondegreen> and she's the only person psychopathic enough to turn the dead into cybermen
[01:30:43] <ladymondegreen> 10$ says that people have already photoshopped john simms head onto missy's body for that scene where she kisses the doctor
[01:31:08] <ladymondegreen> also, i bet there's already weird slash het fanfic using the master and doctor throughout their incarnations
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[01:35:45] <ladymondegreen> okay, so there is going to be a christmas special
[01:35:56] <ladymondegreen> and jenna will be in it
[01:36:08] <ladymondegreen> so her departure wont be related to this at all
[01:36:29] <ladymondegreen> eh, then i care less about how much of a trainwreck this will be
[01:37:27] <ladymondegreen> unless they do some sort of thing where clara leaves the doctor to be with danny
[01:37:31] <ladymondegreen> and stop travelling
[01:37:48] <ladymondegreen> and then aliens invade wherever they're living during christmas so the doctor comes to call
[01:37:50] <ladymondegreen> but i dont think so
[01:38:26] <ladymondegreen> though its possible
[01:39:31] <ladymondegreen> most of the christmas specials under davies took place on earth
[01:39:37] <ladymondegreen> current earth actually
[01:39:42] <ladymondegreen> or, did all of them?
[01:40:00] <Bubo> titanic
[01:40:11] <ladymondegreen> took place above/on modern earth
[01:40:16] <Bubo> true
[01:40:22] <ladymondegreen> there was the new doctor, titanic
[01:40:30] <ladymondegreen> donna
[01:40:35] <ladymondegreen> and end of time
[01:40:40] <ladymondegreen> so yeah, all of them did
[01:41:05] <ladymondegreen> with moffat, he did another planet for the first one
[01:41:13] <ladymondegreen> then earth, but several decades ago
[01:41:18] <ladymondegreen> then earth, but longer ago still
[01:41:34] <ladymondegreen> then other planet/present time earth
[01:42:01] <ladymondegreen> but he's never done alien threat to present day earth
[01:42:28] <ladymondegreen> whereas for davies, each one was a an alien threat to present day earth
[01:42:38] <ladymondegreen> right in the heart of / over london
[01:42:41] <ladymondegreen> of course
[01:42:52] <ladymondegreen> anyway, this was a lot of fu
[01:42:53] <ladymondegreen> fun
[01:43:27] <ladymondegreen> and i've monopolised the channel long enough
[01:43:35] <ladymondegreen> jesus, its been eight hours of me chattering away to myself
[01:43:45] <ladymondegreen> hope you enjoyed it
[01:44:17] <ladymondegreen> maybe, if its okay with rcombs, someone could put the whole thing in a pastebin and stick it in the title for anyone who only caught part of it and wanted the rest
[01:46:35] <ladymondegreen> okay, so the new producers this year are peter bennet and nikki wilson
[01:48:25] <ladymondegreen> i dont know anything about them, but there has been a fairly significant change this season, at least casting wise, and i do appreciate it
[01:48:40] <ladymondegreen> i have got to stop calling extras NPCs though
[01:48:46] <ladymondegreen> no one will ever know what i mean
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[03:51:50] <Kliment> ladymondegreen: Non-Performing Characters :P
[03:52:28] <Kliment> ladymondegreen: Also, did you know that "sarcophagus" means "flesh-eater"?
[04:03:50] <Bubo> nom nom nom
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[05:21:20] <SpaceHobo> hey
[05:21:42] <SpaceHobo> was it JoAnneThrax or someone else who had that link in here a while back on enjoying problematic things?
[05:22:17] <Bubo> I...don't know
[05:22:37] <Bubo> I enjoy things that are problematic
[05:22:59] <Bubo> But thats usuall despite of there problems, not because of them
[05:23:36] <SpaceHobo> yes exactly
[05:24:17] <SpaceHobo> I think I was talking with JoAnneThrax about what we affectionately referred to as the Fang Rock era of Doctor Who
[05:24:41] <SpaceHobo> and noting that it was problematic in so many ways, but trying hard in others and doing amazing work in others
[05:25:01] <SpaceHobo> and she linked an essay on the topic of enjoying problematic works
[05:25:50] <Bubo> I've noticed that a lot of the shows I actually really like are quite low i the amount of runtime they have
[05:26:01] <Bubo> or at least in runtime I've seen
[05:26:08] <Bubo> anyway have to dash to get pizza
[05:27:02] <SpaceHobo> less room to make mistakes :)
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[06:38:06] <Electric91> Hello, fellow Whovians!
[06:40:59] <SpaceHobo> hello
[06:49:40] <Electric91> hi
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[07:47:24] <Bubo> https://www.change.org/p/tony-hall-address-and-remove-the-sexism-and-bullying-currently-occurring-in-doctor-who-under-show-runner-steven-moffat
[07:54:54] <Electric91> it’s ok
[07:55:01] <Electric91> people will ALWAYS find something about anything
[07:55:12] <Electric91> I say : Everyone should bow down to moffat and stop sucking his D
[07:55:25] <Electric91> If a critic said that, i’d purposely put more of it
[07:58:09] <yazdmich> so im re-watching last night's epi
[07:58:27] <yazdmich> because honestly, Missy is one of the best characters ever
[07:58:56] <yazdmich> the 3W "greetings package
[07:58:57] <yazdmich> "
[08:01:15] <Electric91> you think
[08:01:20] <Electric91> it’s just a 
[08:01:22] <Electric91> i mena
[08:01:28] <Electric91> what makes her “the best"
[08:06:45] <yazdmich> uhm, you're being a tad incoherent?
[08:06:51] <yazdmich> are you hungover?
[08:08:38] <yazdmich> i think The Master was waiting oh, so long to kiss him
[08:09:20] <Bubo> I'm sure RTD had "Master kisses Doctor??" scribbled somewhere on a draft
[08:09:45] <yazdmich> yup
[08:10:10] <yazdmich> just to please the ladies (and gays, but he already did that with Jack)
[08:11:25] <Electric91> Nah, my heads elsewhere.   I meant, “you think? It’s just the …” i didn’t want to finish my sentance xD
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[08:11:48] <Bubo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPWxXBp7pWI
[08:12:04] <yazdmich> ah
[08:14:07] <Bubo> I like how the 3W logo matches the cyberman eye
[08:14:15] <yazdmich> yes
[08:14:22] <yazdmich> i just noticed that!
[08:17:34] <Bubo> I wonder what RTD is thinking right now
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[08:19:07] <yazdmich> "my OTP! HE DIDN'T!...he DID!"
[08:19:49] <Bubo> "these old hearts are still yours"
[08:21:19] <yazdmich> but you know what this means?
[08:21:28] <yazdmich> moffat ships doctor x master
[08:21:32] <yazdmich> HE SHIPS IT
[08:21:37] <yazdmich> ITS CANON
[08:25:07] <Bubo> To be fair he shipped it in Curse of the fatal death
[08:27:29] <yazdmich> true
[08:40:52] <Bubo> Huh, Baker married Romana II, nver knew that
[10:17:27] <ladymondegreen> Bubo: yes...that was driving me crazy last episode because the shape was so particular and so familiar
[10:17:30] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: why?
[10:17:34] <ladymondegreen> Kliment: LOL, yes
[10:17:52] <Electric91> Why what, ladymondegreen ? I don’t remember what I typed because i deleted the history 
[10:18:24] <ladymondegreen> (05:54:52 AM) Electric91: it’s ok
[10:18:24] <ladymondegreen> (05:54:59 AM) Electric91: people will ALWAYS find something about anything
[10:18:24] <ladymondegreen> (05:55:10 AM) Electric91: I say : Everyone should bow down to moffat and stop sucking his D
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[10:18:50] <Electric91> XD
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[10:20:39] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: how many lines came through?
[10:20:47] <Electric91> 3 
[10:20:50] <Electric91> Welcome back
[10:20:52] <ladymondegreen> (08:18:22 AM) ladymondegreen: (05:55:23 AM) Electric91: If a critic said that, i’d purposely put more of it
[10:20:52] <ladymondegreen> thanks
[10:20:57] <ladymondegreen> okay, thats all of them
[10:21:01] <ladymondegreen> so, why do you say that?
[10:21:18] <Electric91> Well, because, nowadays, whatever you do, critics find a way to say something. It’s becoming opressing.
[10:21:35] <Electric91> It’s like taking a piece of art, and just saying a ton of bad things about it as if one could make it “better”.
[10:21:41] <ladymondegreen> oppressing?
[10:21:42] <Electric91> It’s always like that
[10:21:44] <Electric91> Yeah
[10:21:51] <ladymondegreen> well, first, this isnt something thats new
[10:21:59] <ladymondegreen> critics have always found a way to criticise
[10:22:09] <Electric91> I know, ladymondegreen . I’m an art major, i deal with them daily
[10:22:26] <ladymondegreen> the only difference is that the web has let voices that are outside of the mainstream speak out in a way that gets heard
[10:22:28] <Electric91> At a point, some people just want to criticize for nothing
[10:22:33] <ladymondegreen> for nothing?
[10:22:35] <ladymondegreen> wow
[10:22:58] <Electric91> Really, only some points can be valid. It’s like having a rollercoaster of words and having to pick out the right ones out of it
[10:23:23] <Electric91> The good critics are actually the people that counts, that know how things actually are
[10:24:08] <Electric91> Well, what do YOU think about it?
[10:24:51] <ladymondegreen> i think steven moffat's run with doctor who has been incredibly sexist, homophobic and transphobic
[10:24:58] <ladymondegreen> and until this season, pretty racist as well
[10:25:11] <Electric91> I honestly think that he’s out of ideas. Plain.
[10:25:24] <ladymondegreen> well, that too, but that's a separate issue
[10:25:28] <Electric91> Right now he’s just recycling.
[10:25:34] <jglauche> which ep are you at ladymondegreen ?
[10:25:39] <ladymondegreen> he's been getting criticism on these subjects for ages, and he's never responded well
[10:25:48] <Electric91> That’s actually an issue.. The general opinion public is only here because it’s a reason more for him to let go
[10:25:53] <ladymondegreen> jglauche: i'm all caught up, there's about 8 hours worth of commentary in the backscroll
[10:26:00] <jglauche> wow
[10:26:24] <Electric91> The day they will start counting, they’ll be there when he has nothing more to say
[10:26:26] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: he's roundly insulted fans whenever they've asked about this, and mocked lgbtq people and feminists
[10:26:42] <ladymondegreen> then he's complained about being oppressed and threatened to sue reviewers who called his work sexist
[10:26:54] <Electric91> See, and I just said it’s “opressing"
[10:27:05] <ladymondegreen> and it takes a lot of freaking gall to reply to people considered about issues of oppression by declaring them the oppressors
[10:27:13] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: yeah, you shoulda seen my eyebrows
[10:27:23] <Electric91> ;)
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[10:28:20] <Electric91> Tell me, why would their opinion matter in a show?
[10:28:28] <Electric91> What’s their true weapon against him?
[10:28:51] <Electric91> And why hasn’t he responded well overrall? Does he even “care” in the first place...
[10:29:00] <ladymondegreen> and look, if he wants to be a misogynistic dick, that's fine. but he needs to stop protesting and say that he isn't and he needs to stop making bizarre excuses. just say "I write the stories I want to, and ones that have personal resonance with me. I'm sorry if not everyone likes that, but that's not my problem"
[10:29:05] <ladymondegreen> um...antecedents?
[10:29:11] <ladymondegreen> who is "their"
[10:29:25] <Electric91> The reviewers, the lgbtq etc
[10:29:54] <Electric91> I can relate to these words a little, ladymondegreen , but I don’t think it makes up for him being harsh to people overall 
[10:30:04] <Electric91> I don’t think anything makes up for a person being mean to people who care
[10:30:22] <ladymondegreen> well, thats one of the reasons people have such a problem with him
[10:30:24] <Electric91> But I agree that his work is HIS work. If he was in a collaboration, i’d understand
[10:30:49] <Electric91> There’s a reason to anything. If someone is obsessed so much about how he writes, there’s a problem there too
[10:31:06] <Electric91> Does it have such a strong influence on people? Considering it’s a show that hits millions etc
[10:31:29] <ladymondegreen> well, but it is, and it isn't. yes, its his work, and his vision. but his work is being broadcast in hundreds of countries around the globe and watched and adored by both children and adults every day. and his work declares itself to be good, to be the future. that's one of the issues
[10:31:31] <Electric91> I can understand that people start making debates about whatever is in the show, they could be missing the big picture tho
[10:31:44] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: "obsessing so much about how he writes"??
[10:31:53] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: what's the big picture?
[10:32:23] <Electric91> That’s the thing about DR who, there’s hardly a “big” picture. It’s hard to perceive the “final” moral code of it because of how many mix-ups we have. 
[10:32:42] <Electric91> If this one reviewer or company just went all in on moffat each time he did an episode, there is an obsession here
[10:33:19] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: there are thousands of people who review every single episode of doctor who. they're all obsessed? or only the ones that strongly criticise it?
[10:33:39] <Electric91> Everyone is obsessed about it in their own way, really, that’s what an obsession is
[10:33:52] <Electric91> But you can be obsessed about the show, and obsessed about the way the writer writes, and why he writes what he writes
[10:34:12] <Electric91> I’m sure hundreds are interested in “what goes in through his head”, but it’s actually “What goes through his head for writing THIS"
[10:34:13] <Electric91> You know?
[10:34:25] <ladymondegreen> what's the difference?
[10:34:53] <Electric91> This is where the opression starts, because they don’t ASK him the question, they point it out to him, depending on our own moral code
[10:35:02] <Electric91> IT’s an analyze, i’m not giving a solution
[10:35:08] <Electric91> I’m telling you why i said what i said
[10:35:18] <ladymondegreen> i mean, if it were an issue with one episode, i'd totally agree with you. but it's an issue with almost all the episodes. with multiple shows. with hundreds of interviews and thousands of tweets
[10:35:36] <ladymondegreen> so...pointing out a percieved flaw in a work is oppression?
[10:35:47] <ladymondegreen> how exactly is it oppression?
[10:35:56] <Electric91> My honest opinion, it’s only been going on because people have made it go on. Do you think if people didn’t point it out it wouldn’t have been amplified?
[10:36:12] <ladymondegreen> lol, are you serious?
[10:36:23] <ladymondegreen> this is a pattern in his work going back years and years and years
[10:36:37] <Electric91> Okay, so i agree with you, it’s his way of work
[10:36:46] <Electric91> If it wasn’t there, how would things be?
[10:36:50] <ladymondegreen> it didn't really get any mainstream attention until about 2 years ago
[10:37:04] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: if what wasn't there, how would what be?
[10:37:13] <ladymondegreen> you dont ever use antecedents, its quite annoying
[10:37:14] <Electric91> Yes, and see, that’s why i said, it’s spot on because now is the time where moffat is lacking ideas
[10:37:43] <Electric91> I mean, when someone is getting vulnerable, everything amplifies.
[10:37:48] <Electric91> The negativities, i mean
[10:37:56] <ladymondegreen> criticism of sexism and homophobia is only appropriate when the rest of the show sucks too?
[10:38:10] <Electric91> It sucks because of him, you think?
[10:38:27] <ladymondegreen> yeah. but i thought season 5 and 6 sucked because of him too
[10:38:55] <Electric91> Yeah so… You see… It’s just a way for the critics to say you’re not doing a good job by pointing out his flaws
[10:39:06] <ladymondegreen> what?
[10:39:07] <Electric91> I’m not sure people would say “your show is bad you’re being a bad write without any ideas"
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[10:39:18] <ladymondegreen> yeah, lots of people have and do
[10:39:35] <Electric91> They do, but we’ve all been taught that it’s not with pressure that we get anything
[10:39:46] <ladymondegreen> what?
[10:39:47] <Electric91> I think moffat realizes that he is lacking ideas
[10:39:54] <Electric91> But what will make him actually drop the pen?
[10:40:12] <Electric91> It was obvious how the new ideas were so fresh compared to HIS episodes
[10:40:21] <Electric91> I hope this is what will make him consider this path
[10:41:07] <Electric91> It’s just very personnal, he’s not going to go because he lacks ideas. I think it would be too hard for him
[10:41:50] <Electric91> He’s making the show go to shit because of his personal reasons and that’s not ok… He’s putting himself before the show, that’s how it feels to me now
[10:42:04] <ladymondegreen> okay, so...let me see if i get this right. the people criticisng him for sexism and homophobia were only doing so because the rest of his writing sucked. and...now that moffat is getting uber repetitive, he should stop writing. the bigotry isnt a reason for him to stop, but repetitiveness is. but, as we've all been taught, we dont get anything with pressure. and now that he's been criticised so heavily, he cant leave. is that 
[10:42:25] <ladymondegreen> honestly, i cant tell, you're quite confusing and you dont ever use antecedents
[10:43:01] <Electric91> They’re not criticizing him because the rest of his writing sucks, it’s always been there. It’s only amplified because he’s vulnerable as lately he has been lacking.
[10:43:44] <Electric91> Before, there was a balance, now, not so much
[10:45:18] <ladymondegreen> well, i mostly disagree. yes, there is more room for critics when people aren't so fanboying over every word that they wont listen to a word of criticism. and people who saw the problems in the show, but were willing to overlook them because they thought he had a great plan for the plot do get doubly disappointed when they find out the were wrong. because they've been overlooking problems. 
[10:45:33] <ladymondegreen> but the misogyny has been getting more attention lately mostly because its been getting more and more and more blatant
[10:46:25] <Electric91> The role of a critic is to critize something to make it better.
[10:46:52] <Electric91> I’m not sure this is what’s happening so much here
[10:47:11] <ladymondegreen> so, because moffat wont listen to critics, critics should shut up?
[10:47:22] <Electric91> No, they should criticze something else
[10:47:39] <ladymondegreen> okay, so they should shut-up. they should stop talking about the problems in doctor who
[10:47:47] <Electric91> Is that the ONLY problem in dr who?
[10:47:58] <Electric91> Is it the MAIN problem?
[10:48:08] <Electric91> They should talk about it
[10:48:10] <Electric91> And i’m glad they do
[10:48:22] <ladymondegreen> now you're contradicting yourself
[10:48:24] <Electric91> But there is a point where a critic isn’t being a critic and just hammering him with the same words over and over
[10:48:46] <Electric91> It’s been here for years, and because moffat didn’t listen to them, they didn’t stop speaking about it
[10:49:00] <ladymondegreen> i see. so, if you point out a problem, and the person causing the problem continues on, and the problem gets worse, you should just move on to something else?
[10:49:05] <Electric91> Are they a victim, the critics, because he didn’t take in account their words?
[10:49:22] <ladymondegreen> why do they need to be a victim?
[10:49:22] <Electric91> It’s the main question i’m asking myself, right now
[10:49:24] <Electric91> Should they?
[10:50:02] <Electric91> Not sure anyones a victim here, but when there is something pointed out, and not being adressed, there’s already conflict
[10:50:32] <ladymondegreen> sorry, but that's all a load of bollocks. a reviewer/critics job is to review/criticise. sometimes artists get better because of criticism. sometimes they dont.
[10:50:50] <ladymondegreen> that's irrelevant though
[10:50:53] <Electric91> That’s what i said, in the first place. Does this make the show better?
[10:51:10] <Electric91> Does this make HIM better?
[10:51:20] <ladymondegreen> the critics role is NOT to make moffat and moffat's who better
[10:51:21] <Electric91> Because i’m not sure him saying being opressed is any good for him
[10:51:32] <ladymondegreen> it would be nice if moffat listened and took it into account
[10:51:36] <ladymondegreen> but that's not the purpose
[10:51:50] <ladymondegreen> and, frankly, we dont yet know what role these critics will play
[10:51:51] <Electric91> Okay, so the critics are using him to adress another situation?
[10:52:10] <ladymondegreen> other hiring decisions might be made, they might make people aware of issues, you dont know
[10:52:28] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: why do the critics need a pointed goal exactly?
[10:52:36] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: and why do you think criticism is oppression?
[10:52:51] <Electric91> If the problem was that big, he would have much more pressure than he already has
[10:53:03] <Electric91> Don’t get me wrong here, criticism isn’t opression
[10:53:11] <ladymondegreen> wow....that's so just world of you
[10:53:28] <Electric91> This particular situation is opressing
[10:53:31] <ladymondegreen> there are lots of seriously big problems. in the world, in the arts. they dont all get the attention they deserve
[10:53:55] <Electric91> Mediatically.. I honestly dislike the art of today
[10:54:01] <Electric91> But it’s another subject
[10:54:06] <Electric91> I’m talking about THIS particular critic
[10:54:15] <Electric91> I’m sure there are many others that are relevant
[10:54:20] <ladymondegreen> well, if slavery was such a big problem, there would be much more pressure against us
[10:54:28] <ladymondegreen> so, clearly it isnt
[10:54:39] <ladymondegreen> dude, i'm not even going to talk with you until you drop the just world crap
[10:54:54] <ladymondegreen> because that's circular as fuck, and actually quite an oppressive ideology
[10:54:59] <ladymondegreen> and i mean, actual oppression
[10:55:32] <Electric91> You don’t have to agree with me, I don’t understand what you’re trying to say now. I am trying to understand what you’re making pass, i’m only talking about one situation and how this can describe so many other things
[10:55:39] <ladymondegreen> what makes this particular critic an issue? that they started a changeme petition? that takes like 10 minutes. i could start one right now
[10:55:49] <Electric91> ^o )
[10:56:11] <Electric91> I’m sure if they could take control of this part of the show, they would have
[10:56:24] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: look up "just world fallacy", there's probably a good wikipedia article on it
[10:56:24] <Electric91> I’m against it, like you
[10:56:42] <Electric91> What i’m saying, it’s a wrong way to go about it
[10:57:00] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: so what? if they could take control of part of the show, they would....hell, i'd leap at the chance and so would many others. why is that a bad thing?
[10:57:17] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: why is a change.org petition so wrong? what makes it oppressive?
[10:57:18] <Electric91> Yes, we sure would.
[10:57:58] <Electric91> So is he giving up control now? I think it’s time. But it’s not these arguments that will make him drop it
[10:58:03] <Electric91> They will leave with him, all those things
[10:58:04] <ladymondegreen> so what?
[10:59:18] <Electric91> So there are just too many weapons onto him
[10:59:26] <Electric91> I’m not telling people should drop the subject
[10:59:46] <Electric91> He has to realize he needs to let go
[11:00:01] <Electric91> Because he’s putting himself before the show, now that the ideas are lacking, there is no balance
[11:00:04] <Electric91> Or not much of it
[11:00:15] <ladymondegreen> steven moffat has turned the doctor, a character who is revered, and who people want to emulate into a bully and a misogynistic asshole. he's had him espouse views that are backwards and sexist. the doctor who doesn't remember the relevant social mores, espouses these things. which implies that women are naturally inferior to men and that sexism is justified. that's one hell of a problem
[11:00:29] <ladymondegreen> and yes, moffat will leave and maybe a large part of these issues will go with him
[11:00:59] <ladymondegreen> although, thats not a given, as showrunners often have a choice in who will replace him and its quite likely that he'll choose someone like him
[11:01:15] <ladymondegreen> but we still have years of the doctor espousing these things, and acting in terrible ways
[11:01:31] <ladymondegreen> ways that should not be respected or emulated, but roundly thrashed
[11:02:28] <ladymondegreen> and the biggest role that criticism plays is in providing a context. is reminding viewers that while the doctor is a character, he was written by a man with very problematic views
[11:02:35] <Electric91> I need to know, why is it a problem in the first place, to you?
[11:03:12] <Electric91> Be aware, i’m not saying it’s NOT, it IS a problem, but a different one for each one of us
[11:03:16] <ladymondegreen> the role criticism plays is in showing viewers the problems that exist, and trying to get them to put aside these things
[11:03:30] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: why do you need to know why it matters to me personally?
[11:03:51] <Electric91> Because i’d understand a lot more where you are going with these arguments
[11:04:16] <Electric91> We both say the same things, almost, but we disagree on the way it’s done
[11:04:20] <ladymondegreen> you haven't asked me why science fiction matters to me personally? why doctor who matters to me personally? why any of the billion subjects i talk about and spend my time on matter to me personally? you've only asked why bigotry matters to me personally
[11:04:39] <ladymondegreen> no, we dont. Electric91, you've contradicted yourself a dozen different times in the past half hour, if not more
[11:04:43] <Electric91> It’s because we don’t know each other yet.
[11:04:54] <ladymondegreen> you've said that the role of critics is to improve the artist, then you backed away
[11:04:55] <Electric91> Or at least, we just don't.
[11:04:59] <Electric91> I do think that
[11:05:03] <ladymondegreen> you said that critcism was oppression, then backed away
[11:05:18] <Electric91> And i do think that… It’s because i keep thinking in bits and pieces.
[11:05:22] <ladymondegreen> you said that critics should stop criticising something that moffat wasn't going to change, and then backed away
[11:05:34] <Electric91> That i actually did.
[11:05:45] <Electric91> That was my bad. They shouldn’t, but there gotta be a level to it
[11:06:18] <ladymondegreen> you think that if something is a serious problem, then they'll be equally intense pressure to change it, which is just world fallacy 101. or maybe 102
[11:06:48] <Electric91> Well, if he changes it, what does it mean then?
[11:06:49] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: you dont need to understand why bigotry personally matters to me in order to understand what i'm saying or "know where i'm going"
[11:07:09] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: if he changes WHAT, what does WHAT mean then?
[11:07:11] <ladymondegreen> antecedents man
[11:07:32] <ladymondegreen> i have no idea what half your sentences mean because you dont use antecedents
[11:07:58] <Electric91> Okay, if moffat listened to the critics each time and changed things IE the sexism, if he changed them DUE to the critics, what does it actually mean to the show?
[11:08:18] <Electric91> Does it mean we’re changing the person FOR the show?
[11:08:19] <ladymondegreen> what do you mean, "mean to the show"?
[11:08:47] <Electric91> Because, he’s being criticized for his writing, about his show. About implenting sexism, etc
[11:08:57] <ladymondegreen> yes
[11:09:18] <ladymondegreen> i know that, i dont know what you mean by "mean to the show"
[11:09:33] <Electric91> I’m sure he has had the opportunity to take several positions about this, and he chose to stand there. He could of listened, and change the sexism, and these problems. If he did, this might even change HIM
[11:09:51] <ladymondegreen> agreed
[11:09:59] <Electric91> I’m thinking, if they managed to change this, each time “something” will be wrong, this can be very dangerous, leading to manipulation
[11:10:26] <Electric91> So If moffat did something that critics didn’t like, and changed the way he did things all the time, he’s not running things anymore
[11:10:30] <ladymondegreen> manipulation of who?
[11:10:35] <Electric91> The critics, the media.
[11:10:47] <ladymondegreen> no, that manipulation by who
[11:11:03] <Electric91> Well, probably us.
[11:11:05] <ladymondegreen> you're saying that the critics and the media are being manipulative, i want to know who you think they are manipulating
[11:11:32] <Electric91> If they managed to manipulate moffat, they’d probably do it again.
[11:11:37] <Electric91> It’s a part of the “key” to the show, then.
[11:12:13] <ladymondegreen> okay. so, if they got moffat to listen to criticism, that would be manipulation. no, sorry, it would be dangerous, leading to manipulation because omg, they might criticism him more and he might listen more!
[11:12:17] <Electric91> So in the end, manipulating the show, VIA moffat...
[11:12:33] <Electric91> It’s a possibility
[11:12:52] <ladymondegreen> and if we dont watch out, the critics might manipulate moffat into writing a show with clear plots, well written characters, and no bigotry, and then where would we all be?
[11:12:56] <Electric91> If things were so amplified each time, it could lead to it. I’m sure i’m exaggerating
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[11:13:15] <ladymondegreen> no, worse! they might go past no bigotry and manipulate moffat into writing a feminist doctor who?
[11:13:24] <ladymondegreen> s/?/!
[11:13:24] <Electric91> And if this happens, don’t you think there’ll be a situation to this case??
[11:14:00] <ladymondegreen> and then where would be? a doctor who with clear plots, no hand wave crap, well written characters and feminist ideology! what a horror!
[11:14:00] <Electric91> It’s not about the show only, if this happens, this only proves more flaws in the world
[11:14:17] <ladymondegreen> and then! other shows might start to do the same thing!
[11:14:43] <Electric91> And it could be for the better or the worse
[11:14:46] <ladymondegreen> before you know it, detective shows wouldn't have gratituous shots of naked murdered women!
[11:14:58] <ladymondegreen> female characters might have agency!
[11:15:13] <ladymondegreen> and, oh no, it would even affect the NPCs!
[11:15:22] <ladymondegreen> we'd actually have gender balanced crowds!
[11:15:25] <ladymondegreen> what a horror!
[11:15:33] <Electric91> It’s fine that you don’t agree with what I say, but what’re you trying to do here?
[11:15:54] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: i'm trying to point out how ridiculously silly your argument is
[11:15:58] <Electric91> What’s your message in these last 6 cases?
[11:16:07] <Electric91> Well, it’s not.
[11:16:15] <Electric91> If they could do this, it could be for a lot of things
[11:16:23] <SpaceHobo> so listen
[11:16:31] <SpaceHobo> I am not taking sides on this particular conversation
[11:16:31] <Electric91> We’re educated that pressure doesn’t work, but all of a sudden, it does
[11:16:32] <SpaceHobo> but
[11:16:35] <SpaceHobo> fuck, Electric91 
[11:16:40] <SpaceHobo> you sure do write in a confusing way
[11:16:43] <SpaceHobo> 17:16 <Electric91> If they could do this, it could be for a lot of things
[11:16:51] <SpaceHobo> that is so abstract as to be meaningless
[11:17:02] <ladymondegreen> SpaceHobo: i know, right!
[11:17:20] <Electric91> Yes, it is abstract, that’s true.
[11:17:35] <SpaceHobo> but you write sentences that are basically all pronoun and preposition
[11:17:58] <SpaceHobo> so I think that the confusion that engenders may be hurting communication here
[11:17:58] <Electric91> It’s backed up by what i say above, normally
[11:18:08] <SpaceHobo> yeah but by the time you've said many things
[11:18:21] <SpaceHobo> it really is impossible to work out the antecedents for the half-dozen pronouns you're tossing at us
[11:18:30] <Electric91> Thanks, that could help for the future.
[11:18:43] <Electric91> Is there anything you didn’t understand ladymondegreen ?
[11:18:45] <SpaceHobo> sorry, I know it's language criticism in the middle of what seems to be a debate
[11:18:57] <Electric91> Is there anything I could make clearer?
[11:19:07] <SpaceHobo> Electric91: I think she's been trying to re-state your own argument back at you to work out what your point is, and that's been somewhat at issue
[11:19:07] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: yes, a lot, and i frequently said so, and said you needed antecedents and pointed out where, and you mostly ignored me, so lets move on
[11:19:53] <Electric91> Well either way, you don’t have to agree with me, but I dislike you trying to make me look ridiculous in my statements.
[11:20:00] <ladymondegreen> yeah, exactly. as soon as i piece together what your argument is, and why i disagree, you roundly change your mind, and say that no, you were saying X, that's totally unrelated
[11:20:02] <Electric91> It wasn’t really nice of you
[11:20:16] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: well, some of your statements were quite ridiculous, and i was trying to point that out
[11:20:38] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: may i ask, do you believe that the media is conspiring together to criticise moffat's writing in particular ways?
[11:20:39] <Electric91> I’m not going to have a debate about that, I dislike it seeing it shown in that way.
[11:21:38] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: i'm asking that quite seriously. do you think the media is conspiring?
[11:22:38] <ladymondegreen> because the only way your argument makes sense is if you believe in a shadowy cabal who uses "the media" as their personal puppet
[11:22:49] <Electric91> Yes, I do.  Today media speaks a lot about sexism, feminism, equality of genders. It’s only transmitted via the critics with their own ideals.  If the medias are conspiring…. I think the government is conspiring, and that the media is controlled by these particular people.
[11:23:39] <ladymondegreen> you think the feminist media, which is one of the biggest critics of government is controlled by the government?
[11:23:57] <Electric91> I think there are people ABOVE the government
[11:24:10] <ladymondegreen> oh...i see
[11:24:20] <ladymondegreen> okay, well, i've found where we disagree then, thanks for explaining
[11:24:34] <Electric91> So, where do we disagree?
[11:24:51] <ladymondegreen> well, you believe in a feminist media conspiracy
[11:24:53] <ladymondegreen> and i dont
[11:25:25] <Electric91> I believe in more serious ones than feminism
[11:25:41] <ladymondegreen> you therefore believe that feminist critics have outsized power
[11:26:01] <Electric91> I don’t truly care about feminism as it’s being adressed and that’s great, I’m really concerned about our survivability.
[11:26:13] <ladymondegreen> can you expand on that?
[11:27:41] <Electric91> Yeah, only that we need more renewable energy and that we have ridiculous wars running over petrol. I really think that with internet and all the technology, it’s not too hard to keep track of everyone and what they do, it’s information and a way of controlling things. That’s why I’m talking about moffat being manipulated via the critics. To me it’s a defense he’s putting up and he refuses to be “controlled”. Or at least
[11:27:42] <Electric91> he refuses to let the show being it, and he’s putting it to sh** because of this “pressure"
[11:28:09] <Electric91> We are getting controlled either way, but to what extent! 
[11:28:50] <Electric91> You’re controlled since you’re a child, since you’re born as a human you’re controlled. There’s really more into it. I just refuse to see my own race eating itself out. We’re going to need new planets to survive through more ressources later on
[11:28:55] <Electric91> This is where the true focus needs to be
[11:30:16] <Electric91> It’s probably true that we’re doing things for the better, but I don’t really trust our governors and the private banks or private institutions
[11:32:34] <ladymondegreen> sorry, wait, what does this have to do with feminism?
[11:32:45] <Electric91> It doesn’t 
[11:32:51] <Electric91> I’m not talking about feminism in particular 
[11:33:05] <Electric91> I believe in more serious conspiracy than “feminism"
[11:33:14] <Electric91> That’s what i expaneded on
[11:34:43] <ladymondegreen> so...then why do you think the media criticism of moffat re sexism, or sorry, more largely, the media that "speaks a lot about sexism, feminism, equality of genders", "transmitted via the critics with their own ideals"....how does that play into this survival conspiracy?
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[11:37:00] <Electric91> Because I don’t believe they are working towards it, it’s all…. How can i put it… It’s not distraction, but it’s like, getting off track
[11:37:11] <Electric91> It’s not the show that will save us, nor moffat
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[11:37:45] <ladymondegreen> so, the media's focus on feminism, and especially criticism of moffat is designed to distract from governments and powerful individuals controlling us?
[11:37:48] <Electric91> What they’re doing is a little more to me, it’s like a “test” field. Almost like, how can we control people like them, or what do we exactly need to reach the show to change public opinions via IT
[11:37:59] <Electric91> Yes, I do think that
[11:38:27] <Electric91> I always think that… It happens too frequently
[11:39:06] <Electric91> Do you think it’s fallacy?
[11:39:49] <ladymondegreen> so...the feminist media is controlled by a shadowy cabal of people and governments, and is used to distract the populace and lull them into complacency by making them angry about the wrong things?
[11:40:54] <Electric91> The media in general, not the feminist media. And i’m not saying they are “shadowy cabal”. Don’t put words into my mouth.. 
[11:41:13] <Electric91> I’m saying that they are distracting others over more important problems with these things
[11:41:28] <Electric91> And that it’s also a way for others to see how certain react to this
[11:42:04] <ladymondegreen> sorry, i didn't know how else to describe powerful people who are more powerful than government, conspiring together
[11:42:14] <ladymondegreen> the only thing that came to mind is "shadowy cabal"
[11:42:20] <Electric91> Alright
[11:42:30] <Electric91> What do you think, about this?
[11:43:16] <Electric91> I do think really badly of them, though
[11:43:26] <ladymondegreen> them?
[11:43:31] <ladymondegreen> antecedent please
[11:43:47] <Electric91> The people controlling the media, I mean.
[11:43:52] <ladymondegreen> ahh, i see
[11:44:09] <Electric91> I’m not sure they’re doing a job to be loved either way.. 
[11:44:24] <ladymondegreen> erm, the people controlling the media or the media?
[11:44:27] <Electric91> What do you think? I haven’t heard your opinion in a while
[11:44:35] <Electric91> Controlling the media
[11:45:02] <Electric91> I’m not sure, I mean, the people filtering these informations are at fault too, somewhere. I’m not sure where exactly, maybe not in every country
[11:45:18] <Electric91> I know how bad censorship can be, for example in the state of Israel. I’m taking an extreme example here
[11:45:32] <Electric91> Compared to the UK, it’s something else… 
[11:45:36] <Electric91> But you get my idea
[11:45:53] <ladymondegreen> so...all media is being controlled this way?
[11:46:09] <ladymondegreen> because, i mean, media ranges from super right wing stuff, to super progressive stuff
[11:46:22] <ladymondegreen> and in fact, feminist critique tends not to be mainstream at all
[11:47:07] <ladymondegreen> see the daily mail, and so on
[11:47:16] <ladymondegreen> lots of right wing publications
[11:47:26] <Electric91> Not all, i’m pretty sure the existance of a subject is controlled though. So when it exists, it's probably controlled by the start, just like we are
[11:47:34] <Electric91> from the start*
[11:47:52] <Electric91> I mean, it’s probably here, but will it be streamed or not, here’s the real thing..
[11:48:03] <ladymondegreen> whats probably here?
[11:48:31] <Electric91> The subjects that aren’t controlled by the medias.
[11:48:36] <ladymondegreen> ahhh
[11:48:42] <Electric91> They’re still journalists and people who investigates, those who write it
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[11:48:55] <ladymondegreen> so...its the subjects that are controlled...subjects meaning topics, right?
[11:49:00] <Electric91> Yes
[11:49:02] <Electric91> Yes
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[11:49:52] <ladymondegreen> so...if feminism was controlled for the start....that means the feminist writers from hundreds of years ago who espoused very unpopular beliefs....they were creating the topic to control it?
[11:50:02] <ladymondegreen> or is this something that's only happened more recently?
[11:50:23] <ladymondegreen> say...suffragettes trying to get the right to vote
[11:50:51] <Electric91> I think it’s something that happened recently with the start of internet, or so. I do think there have been “control” but not that much, and not for a particular greed, IE a state for only more petrol
[11:51:15] <ladymondegreen> so...feminism was co-opted in the last couple decades?
[11:51:26] <Electric91> Decades is already too much....
[11:51:32] <Electric91> I mean
[11:51:35] <ladymondegreen> one decade? 5 years? 2 years?
[11:51:41] <Electric91> I’d go probably 20-30 years before
[11:51:49] <ladymondegreen> ooh, got it
[11:51:52] <Electric91> When electronics started coming here… Maybe not so much
[11:52:10] <Electric91> With the start of TV and broadcasting, probably
[11:52:15] <Electric91> And the studies that followed
[11:52:28] <Electric91> Subliminal messages, this knowledge is already dangerous in its own way
[11:53:04] <ladymondegreen> so...feminism was co-opted via subliminal messages starting in the 30s and 40s?
[11:53:31] <Electric91> Probably, really, I didn’t study this exactly, but if it was ,that was a good thing!
[11:53:43] <ladymondegreen> feminism being co-opted was a good thing?
[11:53:46] <ladymondegreen> why?
[11:53:47] <Electric91> I didn’t really study how feminism rised
[11:53:58] <Electric91> It was good, when women were being treated lower than anything
[11:54:28] <Electric91> There, it was needed, when women were seen as almost less than nothing, or just an object in the kitchen. I’m being extreme,, again.
[11:54:42] <ladymondegreen> so....feminism was being controlled by these powerful people and governments, but it was a good thing....until women were equal and feminism was no longer needed?
[11:54:45] <Electric91> It was already their “role” in the society but now they are much more
[11:55:07] <Electric91> I don’t think they were being controlled by the start. I think someone took control in the process
[11:55:12] <Electric91> From the start*
[11:55:17] <Electric91> I really gotta stop saying by the start
[11:55:53] <ladymondegreen> took control in the process when electronic media started to get big
[11:55:56] <Electric91> I don’t think feminism is needed when women have their equalities. It can be seen as regulation, but no more.. There must be a balance.
[11:56:02] <ladymondegreen> the late 30s, eaerly 40s
[11:56:25] <Electric91> Yes, or more like, when the electronic media went worldwide
[11:56:32] <Electric91> We are going too fast
[11:56:42] <Electric91> For what we have, our energy doesn’t follow
[11:57:01] <Electric91> It’s my opinion, but this somehow goes back to the media, the critics, moffat, the show
[11:57:11] <Kliment> Feminism is definitely necessary even if equality is reached - to ensure that it doesn't start changing again in the other direction
[11:57:13] <Electric91> Not somehow, i mean, I hope i made it clear
[11:57:22] <Electric91> Yes, like for regulation, that’s for sure
[11:58:04] <Electric91> We’re really being taught to be too independant, and that’s weird
[11:58:17] <Electric91> “You have Hundreds of humans next to you, but don’t trust them”
[11:58:29] <Kliment> Not just on a legal platform - the most important field for change is cultural change
[11:58:31] <Electric91> Or at least, not in that way, etc
[11:58:57] <Electric91> Yeah, adaptation, that’s true
[11:58:57] <SpaceHobo> man, this stuff reminds me of what ESR was spewing last time I saw him on IRC
[11:58:59] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: wait...you dont want big interests to control us, but you think people are being too indepent?
[11:59:09] <Electric91> On the contrary
[11:59:16] <Electric91> I mean yes, too independant
[11:59:17] <Electric91> Sorry
[11:59:29] <Kliment> I don't think people are too independent
[11:59:34] <Electric91> I want people to be able to rely on each others from time to time
[11:59:55] <Electric91> If not a whole lot. I think we are dependant in the first place. 
[12:00:22] <SpaceHobo> Electric91: so on a scale from 62 to 91, how strong would you say the KGB brainworms are today?
[12:01:09] <Electric91> Hmm
[12:01:31] <SpaceHobo> so, 74?
[12:02:03] <Electric91> I’d say 80 even….
[12:02:15] <Electric91> Or 76 :D
[12:02:36] <Electric91> Prob not the KGB but the russians… 
[12:03:09] <Electric91> I mean, i’m not really sure, SpaceHobo 
[12:03:25] <Electric91> I know they have a whole lot of deal with the current war in the middle east right now
[12:04:43] <Kliment> There's at least four wars in the middle east right now
[12:04:59] <Electric91> Yeah, it’s horrible
[12:05:27] <Electric91> I’m going there in a month, i’m not feeling great about this.
[12:05:35] <Electric91> It’s going to be a lot of tension.
[12:05:37] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: where to?
[12:05:44] <Kliment> And why are you going?
[12:05:47] <Electric91> Lebanon
[12:06:17] <ladymondegreen> what for?
[12:06:18] <Electric91> I’m seeing old friends there..
[12:06:19] <Kliment> Lebanon is surprisingly peaceful at the moment
[12:06:27] <Electric91> I’m lebanese so I go there a lot
[12:06:30] <ladymondegreen> cool, sounds like it should be fun
[12:06:32] <Kliment> Just stay away from the southern border
[12:06:46] <Electric91> I didn’t put a foot in the southern since 2006
[12:06:47] <Electric91> no
[12:06:48] <Electric91> 2007
[12:07:01] <Electric91> Not to the borders, I mean
[12:07:04] <ladymondegreen> dammit, i really want a jallab now
[12:07:13] <Electric91> Yeah, i love these
[12:07:18] <ladymondegreen> i wonder if i have the ingredients
[12:07:35] <ladymondegreen> dont mind me, i haven't eaten breakfast so just about any subject can make me hungry right now
[12:07:44] <Electric91> It’s a lot of good sugar.
[12:07:48] <Electric91> :P
[12:07:53] <ladymondegreen> indeed
[12:07:58] <Electric91> I love the nuts on top of jallab
[12:08:00] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: serious question. why do you think feminist criticism is a distraction? and not a tool to fight governments and fight corrupt interests?
[12:08:17] <ladymondegreen> me too! which is really weird, because i'm normally not a huge fan of pine nuts
[12:08:49] <ladymondegreen> in fact, when i make pesto, i substitute toasted breadcrumbs for pine nuts
[12:09:01] <ladymondegreen> but holy crap, in a jallab? i could eat a truckload of pine nuts
[12:09:18] <ladymondegreen> i think its because they get soft in the drink and they soak up so much flavour
[12:09:27] <Electric91> I think feminist wanted to be up there and have a share of their power, now that this happened, i think that the media surrounding is a distraction
[12:09:43] <Electric91> I don’t think IT is a distraction, though. Only when it’s just… On show
[12:10:07] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: well, isnt then all media attention to shows or pop culture a distraction?
[12:10:19] <Electric91> It is
[12:10:25] <Electric91> It’s publicity too
[12:10:40] <Electric91> A distraction and a tool
[12:10:53] <ladymondegreen> right. so why is feminist criticism of doctor who worse than any other criticism? or worse than good reviews?
[12:11:41] <Electric91> I don’t know if they are worse than another, really, but when you hit a person, it’s different than hitting an idea.
[12:11:46] <ladymondegreen> i mean, if anything, criticism of a tv show run by the government, one that brings in loads of money and is broadcast all over the world....that should be a good thing
[12:11:58] <Electric91> Moffat projects himself on the show, in the end. That’s what I don’t like about it
[12:12:07] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: um...how does feminist criticism of who equate to hitting a person?
[12:12:08] <yazdmich> ladymondegreen: im more upset that they couldn't have simm and tennant kissing, if that's where it was going to go
[12:12:24] <Electric91> Because it’s moffat implenting it, and they’re onto him
[12:12:35] <ladymondegreen> yazdmich: oh, go to tumblr, 10$ says photoshop has fulfilled your wishes
[12:12:43] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: i dont understand
[12:12:56] <yazdmich> why couldn't the master and the doctor show a bit there instead of only now that the master is female?
[12:13:07] <ladymondegreen> yazdmich: also, i bet that there are some really great/trashy fanfics for you
[12:13:31] <ladymondegreen> yazdmich: because moffat has a boner for true hetereosexual love that is highly disfunctional
[12:13:35] <Electric91> What don’t you understand.
[12:13:37] <yazdmich> ladymondegreen: so my anti-heteronormative complaints are less important than your anti-mysogyny complaints?
[12:14:07] <ladymondegreen> yazdmich: no, not at all. in fact, the heteronormativity is one of my biggest complaints
[12:14:14] <Electric91> I mean, you’ve said it earlier, they are criticising moffat for being incredibly sexist
[12:14:15] <yazdmich> ah
[12:14:25] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: and that criticism equates to hitting someone?
[12:14:29] <yazdmich> Electric91: and a tad homophobic
[12:14:38] <yazdmich> i mean, bring back jack
[12:14:44] <ladymondegreen> yazdmich: and transphobic. and racist
[12:14:45] <Electric91> No, they aren’t criticising the show, but moffat..
[12:14:56] <yazdmich> yup
[12:15:03] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: again, how does criticising a person equate to hitting them?
[12:15:29] <Electric91> Criticising is a thing, but I said it before, it can get opressing if it’s repeated critics
[12:15:41] <Electric91> That he doesn’t change it is his deal, but he’d have to deal with it.
[12:15:59] <Electric91> There are consequences to it
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[12:16:05] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: in order to oppress someone, you need power over them, or to play into an existing power structure that has power over them
[12:16:13] <yazdmich> Electric91: moffat is a wealthy, straight, white, (presumably) christian male in one of the most powerful countries in the world
[12:16:20] <yazdmich> he's far from being opressed
[12:16:32] <Electric91> I said “it CAN get opressing"
[12:16:35] <ladymondegreen> feminism does not have such a power structure. and no individual critic, in fact, even many critics don't have power over him
[12:16:50] <Electric91> Well, that’s the thing...
[12:17:06] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: not in this scenario. when discussing moffat and feminist critics, there is zero way in which those critics can oppress him
[12:17:19] <ladymondegreen> especially through writing
[12:17:39] <Electric91> What says it wasn’t only writing, there can be critics over other TV shows too
[12:17:42] <yazdmich> i side on ladymondegreen
[12:18:01] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: huh?
[12:18:35] <Electric91> There are other forms of critics. TV shows, writing, voice by voice, mails, internet reviews, articles
[12:19:06] <ladymondegreen> okay....and just about all those forms you listed are writing
[12:19:11] <Electric91> Tv shows?
[12:19:14] <Electric91> Voice by voice?
[12:19:21] <Electric91> Mails - internet reviews - aricles are writing yes
[12:19:24] <ladymondegreen> even podcasts, vlogs and tv shows....the criticism is words
[12:19:39] <Electric91> Yes, they are.
[12:19:49] <Electric91> Words.
[12:19:59] <ladymondegreen> i mean, i can read a transcript of a podcast, and someone with a screen reader can hear an article read out load
[12:20:01] <Electric91> What’re we even debating about now?
[12:20:05] <ladymondegreen> the form doesn't make a difference
[12:20:06] <Electric91> That moffat is or not opressed?
[12:20:23] <ladymondegreen> i said that feminist critics have no power to oppress moffat, especially not through writing
[12:20:32] <ladymondegreen> and you objected to that because some criticism is spoken
[12:20:41] <Electric91> Probably not them, yeah
[12:21:04] <ladymondegreen> alright, you've asked for my opinion, so i'm going to give it
[12:21:05] <Electric91> If the critics multiplied over other subjects, they’d all be opressing, without them individually being opressing
[12:21:16] <Electric91> Okay
[12:21:21] <ladymondegreen> no, they wouldnt, because they'd need to play into a larger power structure
[12:21:24] <ladymondegreen> that doesn't exist
[12:21:45] <ladymondegreen> by that definition, people rising up and protesting government, are oppressing their government
[12:21:51] <ladymondegreen> thats a ridiculous definition
[12:22:28] <ladymondegreen> or, for example, the recent bill cosby rape case. by your definition, multiple women coming forward and speaking up about the harm he caused, and the press covering it, that would be oppressing bill cosby
[12:22:32] <ladymondegreen> that's not what the word means
[12:22:35] <ladymondegreen> its just not
[12:23:05] <Electric91> In this case, he opressed the women / woman he raped
[12:23:15] <Electric91> He attacked them
[12:23:35] <Electric91> You can’t really compare moffat to bill cosby, can you?
[12:23:43] <ladymondegreen> no, i'm comparing power structures
[12:23:48] <ladymondegreen> moffat has power
[12:24:11] <ladymondegreen> he gets to decide the vision for a government produced show that has an enormous budget and that is broadcast in hundreds of countries
[12:24:56] <ladymondegreen> he gets to not only have opinions, but to put those opinions in the mouths of important characters, who have cultural power, and to have those opinions regurgitated on the screens of millions of people worldwide
[12:25:18] <Electric91> So to you, it’s the other way around?
[12:25:19] <ladymondegreen> even if every critic agreed on the same things and made the same points....moffat would have more power
[12:25:47] <ladymondegreen> when moffat has the doctor make a sexist joke, or a homophobic joke, he's telling millions of people around the world that those jokes are okay
[12:26:03] <ladymondegreen> he's contributing to oppressive cultures of sexism and homophobia
[12:26:30] <Electric91> Again, I don’t disagree with that
[12:26:40] <Electric91> What I’m not okay with, is the way it’s being pointed out
[12:26:47] <ladymondegreen> even if all the media that criticised him agreed on the same points (and they dont, not by a long shot), they still wouldnt have the reach or the power that moffat does
[12:27:26] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: what? bloggers criticising him? seriously?
[12:27:40] <Electric91> So you say it doesn’t work
[12:27:41] <Electric91> It doesn't
[12:28:39] <ladymondegreen> i dont understand how you can criticise media as an opiate of the masses, and think that the people with power use it badly, and then take issue with a handful of people speaking truth to power and pointing out how powerful media is and how it's being ill-used
[12:28:43] <ladymondegreen> that's just contradictory
[12:29:11] <ladymondegreen> okay, let me try an analogy
[12:30:04] <ladymondegreen> say that in the last few years of moffat's run, instead of sexism being an issue, global warming and industrialisation were. and doctor who had a pro industrialisation slant and tried to pretend that global warming wasn't real
[12:30:15] <ladymondegreen> and moffat got roundly criticised for this
[12:30:38] <ladymondegreen> mostly on blogs, and tumblr and twitter, but with a fair bit of the milder criticism getting showcased in major papers
[12:31:47] <ladymondegreen> can you see, in this situation, how moffat's writing is furthering existing power structures and how his narratives and ideas are harmful?
[12:32:01] <Electric91> Yes.
[12:32:16] <ladymondegreen> would you consider strong criticism of him and his work, oppressive to him?
[12:32:22] <ladymondegreen> would you consider it out of line?
[12:32:31] <Electric91> You’ll kill me if I say yes.
[12:32:41] <ladymondegreen> no, i'm asking
[12:33:00] <Electric91> My points is another than pure opression, I would, yes.
[12:33:06] <Electric91> There are ways to go about these things
[12:33:28] <Electric91> Just to answer simply : Yes
[12:33:34] <ladymondegreen> so...even though moffat has a lot of power, and is being oppressive, the criticism of him should be limited and polite?
[12:33:43] <Electric91> No.
[12:33:46] <ladymondegreen> what form should the criticism take? what forms of criticism would be wrong?
[12:34:15] <Electric91> Okay, we’re on the same page. We both think it’s wrong, right?
[12:34:29] <ladymondegreen> think what's wrong? there's no antecedent
[12:34:47] <Electric91> say that in the last few years of moffat's run, instead of sexism being an issue, global warming and industrialisation were. and doctor who had a pro industrialisation slant and tried to pretend that global warming wasn't real”
[12:34:51] <Electric91> This line.
[12:34:59] <ladymondegreen> yes, we both think that that's wrong
[12:35:23] <Electric91> Then, there is an obvious battle between whoever choses to confront him about the subject and himself.
[12:35:35] <Electric91> See, the real problem, is the subject… Not moffat.
[12:35:42] <Electric91> It doesn’t matter what he thinks.
[12:35:58] <Electric91> People are wasting their time by telling him it’s wrong, what he’s feeding to people
[12:36:04] <ladymondegreen> okay. so, your issue is that criticism should be aimed only at the subject and not the person?
[12:36:09] <Electric91> Yeah
[12:36:20] <ladymondegreen> because its a waste of time, or because its "oppressive"?
[12:36:33] <Electric91> At the subject, or at least, put pressure onto organizations to battle these causes he is feeding to people
[12:36:36] <Electric91> Because it’s a waste of time
[12:36:42] <Electric91> It doesn’t matter if it’s an opression or not
[12:36:46] <Electric91> It’s all just misleading 
[12:36:51] <ladymondegreen> okay, well, you're wrong. its not a waste of time
[12:36:56] <ladymondegreen> moffat is an icon, and a comodity
[12:37:04] <ladymondegreen> there are hundreds of memes about him
[12:37:11] <ladymondegreen> they draw on his work, yes, but they are about him
[12:37:24] <ladymondegreen> people will wait hours to get a chance to meet him and to hear him speak
[12:37:40] <Electric91> Okay, your point is he has a lot of influence.
[12:37:44] <Electric91> On who, exactly?
[12:38:00] <ladymondegreen> you're insisting on separating the product from the creator, the words from the writer and the ideas from the person who voiced him
[12:38:01] <Electric91> Who’s he influencing?
[12:38:03] <ladymondegreen> s/him/them
[12:38:07] <ladymondegreen> and that's inrealistic
[12:38:14] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: millions of people all over the world
[12:38:23] <Electric91> I’m talking about the idea
[12:38:29] <Electric91> The idea he’s producing
[12:38:35] <Electric91> The idea he’s “feeding” his doctor
[12:38:38] <Electric91> Where are they from?
[12:38:52] <Electric91> Let’s say, then, what influences moffat, exactly?
[12:39:01] <Electric91> Moffats world, moffats ideals
[12:39:15] <ladymondegreen> they're from him. most directly. and past that, they're societal ideas. they're a reflection of the world he grew up in, or at least, how he perceives that world
[12:39:54] <ladymondegreen> now i agree, moffat likely wont listen to criticism. but criticism of him is aimed at more than just moffat. it's aimed at everyone who listens to and is influenced by him, either directly, or through one of his creations
[12:39:54] <Electric91> So, if i’m using this statement, the problem inside moffat, is us. So you could say, we produced this?
[12:40:08] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: we, as in society?
[12:40:12] <ladymondegreen> yes and no
[12:40:33] <Electric91> One second.
[12:40:44] <Electric91> Sorry to cut you short i need to do a quick call. Really sorry
[12:41:35] <ladymondegreen> yes, society shapes us in a lot of ways. one of the reasons its so hard to fight these biases, is because they're so hard to notice in ourselves, and in the world around us. but that doesn't absolve us of personal responsibility. we are products of society, but we also produce society
[12:42:44] <ladymondegreen> i know that a lot of the ways in which i'm biased come from society. but if, no, not if, when, i act on these biases, i am doing harm. and that's my responsibility
[12:43:00] <Electric91> That’s my point, the whole time..
[12:43:14] <Electric91> In doing this, we’re not influencing him the right way
[12:43:26] <ladymondegreen> so if someone calls me out for behaviour or language which furthers an oppressive system, yes, it's my responsibility
[12:43:27] <Electric91> What we do is still an influence on him, his person
[12:43:34] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: but not everyone can be influenced
[12:43:39] <ladymondegreen> lots of people dont care
[12:44:08] <Electric91> His idea weren’t self produced, like you said, he’s been “shaped” to it?
[12:44:12] <ladymondegreen> and as critics cant directly speak to moffat, its ridiculous to put the responsibility of changing him, on them. or rather, on us
[12:44:34] <Electric91> When there is a response, there is an influence to something...
[12:45:01] <Electric91> I agree that he has a lot of power, and can feed people influences and he’s not doing it “right"
[12:45:21] <Electric91> In what he’s doing, there must be a message, why is he doing what he’s doing
[12:45:28] <Electric91> Even if bottom line it’s bad
[12:45:31] <ladymondegreen> if someone calls me out for behaviour or language which furthers an oppressive system, the responsibility is mine. it is not the responsibility of the person who calls me out to change me. maybe their words affect me, maybe they dont. and its not unfair or opressive for them to call me out simply because i was influenced by society. everyone is, and i'm responsible for my own words and actions
[12:46:11] <Electric91> And if someone was onto you calling for a change all the time, wouldn’t it be a bit exaggerated?
[12:46:52] <Electric91> Calling someone out HAS an effect, it’s not guenine to me
[12:46:57] <ladymondegreen> critics who criticise moffat, and his work...they are trying to get other people to see the harm in it. they are trying to make sure that moffat's influence is limited. they're trying to undo some of the harm of, or at least get people to recognise the harm in his writing
[12:47:33] <Electric91> Really, that only takes a little bit of thinking to understand that there is harm in the show
[12:47:41] <Electric91> It’s not the point, though, sorry 
[12:47:58] <Electric91> But yeah, sure, they are, but their actions also have consequences
[12:47:58] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: if my views were being broadcast to millions of people. and i was behaving in a way, or using language that furthered an oppressive system, then no, repeatedly pointing out that i was doing that would not be overkill
[12:48:36] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: well, that's the point. they're trying to limit moffat's negative influce and get people to be aware of, and work against, the harm he is causing
[12:48:38] <Electric91> Bottom line, what’s the point in doing that! They’re doing this for a reason, is it changing things around, or ONLY opening eyes to the people?
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[12:48:52] <ladymondegreen> opening people's eyes IS itself, a change
[12:48:55] <Electric91> To you, it feels like critics are the wake up calls
[12:49:03] * CO2 just watched the ep
[12:49:19] <CO2> time to go read the thread, I'll find gif time there, I'll be back with that asap
[12:49:36] <ladymondegreen> and while you may think that it only takes a little thinking to understand the harm in the show, the number of people who read criticism of the show is vastly dwarfed by the number of watch the show
[12:50:01] <ladymondegreen> CO2: i did IRC while I watched. if you want, its in the backscroll
[12:50:20] <CO2> I don't have that, just logged in
[12:50:27] <ladymondegreen> i'll pastebin it for you
[12:50:31] <Electric91> I don’t understand why we’re debating anymore, or our points
[12:50:48] <Electric91> I feel i got my point through. It just doesn’t work that way, and you got your own..
[12:50:56] <Electric91> I’m not trying to change your opinion or anything
[12:51:11] <Electric91> So it’s good to have different point of views about it
[12:51:23] <Electric91> I did get a lot from what you said.
[12:54:26] <ladymondegreen> okay. well, just so you know, this channel is pretty roundly feminist, or pre-feminist
[12:55:02] <ladymondegreen> and we do regularly discuss misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, racism of the show, and of moffat
[12:55:26] <ladymondegreen> i've written multiple reviews of moffat's work, and they do absolutely criticism him for these things
[12:56:08] <ladymondegreen> i also think that you're understand of feminism is a bit skewed. feminism tends to rail against those in power. governments, patriarchy, all that
[12:56:16] <Electric91> Okay. That’s great, but there comes a point where debating is a bit pointless, we’re just being stubborn
[12:56:29] <ladymondegreen> and feminism is intimatly tied to other movements fighting government oppression and the oppression of the powerful
[12:56:57] <Electric91> Yes, I know all about that.
[12:56:58] <ladymondegreen> feminism has strong ties to the anarchy and marxist movements, for example
[12:57:08] <ladymondegreen> and huge ties to anti war movements and pacificism
[12:57:18] <ladymondegreen> it also has huge ties to ecology issues
[12:57:36] <ladymondegreen> in fact, ecofeminists have been some of the leaders in these areas
[12:57:48] <Electric91> Politically, yes.
[12:58:14] <Electric91> And many women have been as bad as men, don’t mix up everything. Some of them are being iconically used.
[12:58:23] <ladymondegreen> the ecology movement of the last half century plus owes a huge debt to feminists, and was in many ways, primarily pushed by feminists
[12:58:30] <Electric91> It’s great to see them have the power in areas, though.
[12:58:41] <ladymondegreen> um...i didnt say women were better than men, i was speaking about feminists
[12:58:57] <Electric91> Okay
[12:59:05] <SpaceHobo> feminism is an equality movement
[12:59:28] <Electric91> This reminds me about gone girl
[12:59:37] <Electric91> How it speaks so badly about it
[12:59:45] <Electric91> All the mediatic crap i see over and over
[13:00:07] <SpaceHobo> I don't know what gone girl is
[13:00:17] <Electric91> It’s a movie, it came out around last month
[13:00:25] <Electric91> 9th october i think
[13:00:47] <SpaceHobo> and you didn't like it?
[13:00:50] <Electric91> No
[13:00:52] <ladymondegreen> SpaceHobo: gone girl is a piece of misogynistic trash
[13:01:00] <SpaceHobo> right on
[13:01:13] <ladymondegreen> spoiler alert for like the whole plot:
[13:01:19] <Electric91> "Bitch!"
[13:01:26] <Electric91> That’s the climax of the movie.
[13:01:29] <SpaceHobo> not planning to see it for sure now
[13:01:51] <CO2> The episode in the end had a rather similar story than that of the Toclafane, while the idea of dead people was from Miracle Day
[13:02:04] <CO2> the psychic paper joke about Malcolm Tucker made me chuckle
[13:02:25] <Electric91> So far, i’m afraid it’ll be just another doomsday.
[13:02:28] <ladymondegreen> gone girl is the story of a straw feminist, a wealthy and beautiful psychopath who gets revenge against her cheating husband by framing him for his murder (among other things), making false rape allegations and spermjacking her broken husband
[13:02:31] <Electric91> Only inversed roles.
[13:02:41] <SpaceHobo> ladymondegreen: aaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[13:02:44] <CO2> GIF TIME
[13:02:47] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/nPlhjJV.gif
[13:02:52] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/HiUR2j6.gif
[13:02:59] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/5tqqDmf.gif
[13:03:04] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/OsK3yiP.gif
[13:03:20] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/JYJVsKk.gif
[13:03:24] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/b6p2Fdr.gif
[13:03:29] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/s2KssYa.gif
[13:03:41] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/XIWmZsE.gif
[13:03:41] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/Ng2PAjY.gif
[13:03:41] <ladymondegreen> SpaceHobo: yeah. and so of course, this has somehow spawned reviews callling gone girl a feminist masterpiece
[13:03:49] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/tinGtsD.gif
[13:03:49] <ladymondegreen> SpaceHobo: by people who really dont understand feminism
[13:04:07] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/YyFyIl7.gif
[13:04:07] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/tN5ppQX.gif
[13:04:13] <Electric91> The worst in gonegirl is that the director got lost in his own prepositions
[13:04:14] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/ZCxCKdt.gif
[13:04:27] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/aPeQsEV.gif 'oh shit'
[13:04:30] <Electric91> Brbr
[13:04:37] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/tE5OSp4.gif
[13:04:38] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/ddEVIl0.gif
[13:04:41] <ladymondegreen> SpaceHobo: http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/oct/07/gone-girl-backlash-david-fincher-misogynist-feminist
[13:04:45] <Electric91> It was good debating and all.
[13:04:50] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/SVOZkDS.gif
[13:04:51] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/5cTvIqQ.gif
[13:05:02] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/zpmF9QR.gif
[13:05:02] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/YOBKbOU.gif
[13:05:05] <ladymondegreen> SpaceHobo: thats an excellent rundown of everything. also, i love it whenever theguardian uses the word mansplaining
[13:05:08] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/GhTi5um.gif
[13:05:21] <CO2> folks, DO NOT interrupt gif time
[13:05:29] <CO2> Gif time is over, pls continue your conversations now.
[13:05:44] <SpaceHobo> Ben Affleck
[13:05:49] <SpaceHobo> and the Afflecktones
[13:06:04] <ladymondegreen> CO2: wow, that's impressive gif spammage
[13:06:18] <CO2> ladymondegreen: I've been doing that every week after the episode
[13:06:31] <SpaceHobo> and I've missed it!
[13:06:34] <CO2> because at least some people here really appreciate it
[13:06:36] <SpaceHobo> I think I caught the mummy one
[13:06:39] <CO2> well then be in here at proper times
[13:06:41] <SpaceHobo> where they pulled te lever together
[13:06:44] <SpaceHobo> that was a great sot
[13:06:45] <SpaceHobo> shot
[13:06:56] <SpaceHobo> CO2: do you have a clearinghouse page for these?
[13:07:58] <Electric91> ladymondegreen: what appeals you to watch Dr who
[13:08:46] <CO2> SpaceHobo: yeah, just the posts in the thread by the original uploader
[13:09:05] <CO2> SpaceHobo: these pages contain all of them since Listen http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3664592&userid=55247 
[13:09:22] <CO2> If you can't access that because you don't have an SA account that's not my problem.
[13:10:26] <CO2> remove the userid bit from the url and you see the entire thread, which has some good debates and criticism going on
[13:10:36] <CO2> everything within the First Law of Doctor Who Fans of course
[13:11:08] <CO2> oh it seems the paywall isn't up on SA today
[13:11:10] <CO2> you're in luck
[13:12:15] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: well, mostly its a deep love of science fiction
[13:12:29] <ladymondegreen> science fiction is incredibly
[13:13:04] <ladymondegreen> you're not limited to telling stories in the present or the past
[13:13:18] <ladymondegreen> you're not limited to this word, and this society, and the same old tropes
[13:13:28] <ladymondegreen> you can do anything
[13:13:40] <ladymondegreen> you can make these amazing science creations. and you can use them to help the world
[13:13:46] <ladymondegreen> or to make a different world
[13:14:00] <ladymondegreen> science fiction is how you change the world
[13:14:04] <ladymondegreen> its how you heal the world
[13:14:22] <ladymondegreen> its how you open people's minds and teach them to have empathy for things they cant possibly understand or concieve
[13:14:39] <ladymondegreen> its how you teach people to respect people
[13:14:49] <ladymondegreen> its how you inspire people to fight
[13:14:57] <ladymondegreen> you show them how the world can be
[13:15:14] <CO2> anyway, the master has always been a sexist fuck; some things never change
[13:15:23] <Electric91> It inspires you, then… doesn’t it?
[13:15:28] <ladymondegreen> and the doctor, is, or well, at least should, in theory be, a perfect example of that. 
[13:15:45] <ladymondegreen> someone who has a huge and deep respect and love for humans....even though he's far more powerful
[13:16:01] <ladymondegreen> someone who travels and sees so much that they aren't affected by social mores
[13:16:14] <ladymondegreen> someone who helps
[13:16:17] <CO2> "With any luck, next week they'll point out the Cyberman that has Jobs' rotting (?) corpse inside. Perhaps it'll have a white glowing Apple on the chest rather than the blue lamp thing. "
[13:16:19] *** Quits: Velociraptors (raptors@hide-35F886C5.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net) (Quit: and *boom*)
[13:16:21] <CO2> hahaha I'd love that
[13:16:23] <ladymondegreen> CO2: yeah, absolutely true
[13:16:40] <ladymondegreen> CO2: lol, yay
[13:16:51] <ladymondegreen> i thought the jobs line was too much of a giveaway though
[13:17:30] <ladymondegreen> as soon as you heard it you realised that that the people running the netherworld were operating in the current earth world timeline
[13:17:32] <CO2> "Speak for me again, and I will detach something from you" - Clara
[13:17:49] <ladymondegreen> which of course, instantly meant that it was a nefarious plot/trap
[13:17:53] <ladymondegreen> CO2: yes, i loved that line!
[13:18:09] <CO2> ladymondegreen: one person said that in the forest episode somebody mentioned it's 2016
[13:18:20] <CO2> so apparently possibly there might be a "Next Sunday" type of thing going on
[13:18:33] <ladymondegreen> let me check the script
[13:19:22] <Kliment> Hoe didyae gettyae ands on the script?
[13:19:53] <CO2> scripts were leaked
[13:20:02] <CO2> I'm not sure if all of them where, but at least of some episodes
[13:20:07] <ladymondegreen> there's a woman who runs a transcript site
[13:20:12] <ladymondegreen> www.chakoteya.net
[13:20:18] <ladymondegreen> erm who script
[13:20:24] <ladymondegreen> s/erm/every
[13:20:25] <CO2> and the funny thing is, people read them without knowing what way the directing would take, completely misinterpreted scenes
[13:20:35] <CO2> and capaldi and coleman saved scenes the readers thought would be horrible
[13:20:58] <CO2> and that's why you don't spoil yourself with incomplete episode info
[13:21:05] <ladymondegreen> "a tree is a time machine. you plant an acorn in 1795, and in the year 2016, there's an oak tree, there, in the same spot, with a tiny little bit of 1795 still alive inside of it"
[13:21:18] <ladymondegreen> so, yes
[13:21:21] <SpaceHobo> heh
[13:21:22] <ladymondegreen> but the doctor said that line
[13:21:30] <ladymondegreen> and the doctor just about never has the date right
[13:21:39] <CO2> also since when is a skeleton enough of a human to become a cyborg?
[13:21:54] <CO2> okay in the case of Handles, a detached head was enough
[13:22:01] <SpaceHobo> WHO TURNED OUT THE LIGHTS
[13:22:04] <ladymondegreen> CO2: it isn't. the body is upgraded. the liquid makes it look like it's a skeleton
[13:22:05] <CO2> (fan theory: Handles = Pink)
[13:22:08] <ladymondegreen> SpaceHobo: hahaha
[13:22:13] <ladymondegreen> CO2: shut up, no
[13:22:55] <SpaceHobo> hahaha
[13:22:58] <ladymondegreen> so, yeah, this woman has been faithfully providing transcripts for doctor who and star trek since 1999
[13:23:01] <ladymondegreen> has em all
[13:23:03] <SpaceHobo> yowza
[13:23:12] <ladymondegreen> including SJA and torchwood
[13:23:17] <Kliment> CO2: Not danny though. Orson.
[13:23:31] <CO2> ah
[13:23:36] <SpaceHobo> http://1.mshcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Who-6.jpg
[13:23:48] <CO2> other than the ones I named already, another scene that reminded me of something: Mt Doom
[13:24:53] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: could you please stop spamming me ctcp requests?
[13:25:02] <Electric91> Huh
[13:25:05] <Electric91> What did i do?
[13:25:19] <CO2> One key to open the door, one key to give 'em. One key to get them in, and in the TARDIS keep them
[13:25:31] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: you flooded me with ctcp requests
[13:25:47] <ladymondegreen> version, time, ping, time, ping, ping, ping ... over and over and over
[13:25:49] <ladymondegreen> that's not cool
[13:26:01] <Electric91> I’m working, I didn’t see that was open, sorry
[13:26:14] <Electric91> I was on my own window
[13:26:23] <Electric91> It’s because i had your PM highlighted
[13:26:33] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: i dont know what client you're using, but you CANNOT spam people like that
[13:26:45] <Electric91> I didn’t mean to. 
[13:27:16] <CO2> the name of the 3W founder was given as 'Dr. Skarosa.'
[13:27:18] <CO2> Skaro?
[13:27:31] <CO2> is 'Mistress' involving the daleks too, now?
[13:27:46] <ladymondegreen> CO2: either that, or someone is naming things very poorly
[13:27:54] <ladymondegreen> which i wouldnt put past them
[13:27:58] <CO2> yeah
[13:28:03] <ladymondegreen> moffat loves easter eggs, even if they make no sense
[13:28:29] <jglauche> maybe cybermen and daleks unite
[13:28:46] <jglauche> in a plot to kill the doctor.
[13:29:36] <ladymondegreen> ehh
[13:29:55] <ladymondegreen> what will be really interesting will be to see how moffat treats the sims era
[13:30:05] <ladymondegreen> will he make further attempts at retconning the end of time
[13:30:18] <SpaceHobo> moffat tends to leave hooks all over the place
[13:30:21] <ladymondegreen> will he reinforce any of that narrative?
[13:30:22] <CO2> " So basically, these cybermen are hosted on THE CLOUD instead of having their brainy bits in their heads. This is made possible by a clever integration of Gallifreyan tech. They've just become Cylons. "
[13:30:24] <ladymondegreen> ignore it entirely?
[13:30:34] <SpaceHobo> so that later he can pick up any three and look like a MASTERMIND GENIUS to every 12 year old in the room
[13:30:40] <Kliment> CO2: Single point of failure!
[13:30:51] <Kliment> CO2: But to delete them, you must delete the dead
[13:30:56] <SpaceHobo> like, wasn't one of the ikea daleks named like "ETERNITY DALEK" or something?
[13:30:57] <CO2> ladymondegreen: remember that every other season the timeline is completely reset... well, things that are inconvenient to Moffat never happened
[13:31:14] <CO2> hm
[13:31:19] <Kliment> CO2: Which is cool because then they don;t need to suffer. But not cool because clara will murder you.
[13:31:32] <CO2> I just realize that I got really angry when Star Trek did that
[13:31:39] <CO2> using a stupid plot to reset the timeline
[13:31:43] <SpaceHobo> CO2: "The Star Track"
[13:31:48] <ladymondegreen> CO2: reset, except not reset
[13:31:51] <CO2> but doctor who does it every so often and I allow that? hmm.
[13:31:55] <ladymondegreen> look at the epic disaster that was the silence
[13:32:03] <ladymondegreen> that plotline had SEVERAL resets in it
[13:32:12] <ladymondegreen> and contradicts itself every other minute
[13:32:21] <ladymondegreen> erm, the silence / cracks in the universe
[13:32:25] <CO2> my question is
[13:32:31] <jglauche> it's meant that YOU forget that it was there!
[13:32:40] <CO2> everything in this episode pointed at the cybermen reveal being the big surprise
[13:32:45] <CO2> so why were they in the trailer?
[13:33:10] <SpaceHobo> heh
[13:33:12] <ladymondegreen> CO2: because the BBC is a giant arsehole
[13:33:15] <SpaceHobo> shades of Earthshock
[13:33:28] <jglauche> CO2: wasn't it the mistress reveal?
[13:33:30] <ladymondegreen> BBC trailers spoiler like half of the episodes, at least
[13:33:51] <SpaceHobo> the cybermen and daleks have become so watered down
[13:34:28] <SpaceHobo> to me the cybermen were terrifying as a struggling colonial power
[13:34:51] <SpaceHobo> and the daleks as a panzer rush you had to hide from
[13:35:03] <SpaceHobo> but with a limitless effects capacity they're both just PEW PEW PEW
[13:35:32] <SpaceHobo> the scariest thing a dalek ever did for me was make Eccleston's voice crack
[13:35:47] <SpaceHobo> just sitting there chained in a cellar
[13:36:45] <ladymondegreen> SpaceHobo: YES!
[13:37:01] <ladymondegreen> see, this is one of the reason i really dislike how good the effects are
[13:37:08] <ladymondegreen> pre-effects you had to work to make something scary
[13:37:11] <ladymondegreen> the moment had to matter
[13:37:16] <ladymondegreen> there had to be a terrifying idea
[13:37:22] <CO2> one thing
[13:37:32] <ladymondegreen> now its all visual effects and sound effects and nothing else
[13:37:40] <CO2> gif from yesterday's episode: http://i.imgur.com/YOBKbOU.gif
[13:37:59] <CO2> screenshot from apparently a Troughton ep http://i.imgur.com/lokBr3b.gif
[13:38:17] <Electric91> You really are a critic yourself, ladymondegreen  
[13:38:30] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: yes, i know
[13:38:44] <ladymondegreen> that's what that whole 8 hour running commentary was for
[13:39:27] <ladymondegreen> i only publish a few pieces, but i do a lot of commentary in here
[13:39:38] <CO2> " Oh, and was anyone else hoping the Doctor would just shrug, snap his fingers, and walk in the TARDIS after Clara threw away the last key?"
[13:39:39] <CO2> YES
[13:39:58] <jglauche> YES
[13:40:06] <ladymondegreen> CO2: a little yeah
[13:40:07] <Electric91> That’s why you’re going to hate me, ladymondegreen 
[13:40:19] <ladymondegreen> my headcanon for that bit is that the snaps are tied to the tardis keys
[13:40:26] <Electric91> Because i’m an “artist”, so i’m the other way around.
[13:40:35] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: i'm an artist too
[13:40:42] <ladymondegreen> that's why i find criticism so important
[13:40:55] <ladymondegreen> criticism is an art form itself, at least good criticism is
[13:41:01] <ladymondegreen> good writing it
[13:41:02] <Electric91> I do it for myself, i don’t really like to critic others
[13:41:04] <ladymondegreen> *good writing is
[13:41:20] <ladymondegreen> Electric91: well, and that's a personal choice
[13:41:24] <Electric91> Yep
[13:41:27] <Electric91> I’m just selfish like that.
[13:41:40] <ladymondegreen> some of my art is personal and i dont share it. some is not
[13:41:59] <ladymondegreen> i do absolutely understand and empathise with the plight of the artist
[13:42:10] <ladymondegreen> my grandmother was a classical painter, so was my grandfather
[13:42:28] <ladymondegreen> his works are actually of some note
[13:42:43] <ladymondegreen> hers might have been, had she showed her work more
[13:42:59] <ladymondegreen> that whole line of my family is artists, professional artists
[13:43:08] <ladymondegreen> mostly painters, but a few singers and writers mixed in
[13:43:08] <Electric91> I’m an abstract painter
[13:43:16] <Electric91> All my family is in the cinema
[13:43:18] <Electric91> I hate it.
[13:44:00] <CO2> hmm
[13:44:05] <ladymondegreen> arts have been an important part of my life for ages. i painted for many years, still would if i could afford to. messed about with sculpture for a bit. have a deep love for, and talent in photography, which again, i'd continue if i could afford to
[13:44:06] <CO2> red phone booth = missy's tardis?
[13:44:20] <ladymondegreen> i spent years in the theatre
[13:44:27] <ladymondegreen> CO2: where would she have gotten it?
[13:44:41] <CO2> http://i.imgur.com/GhTi5um.gif
[13:44:55] <ladymondegreen> and i'm a writer. not just articles and reviews, but post modern free verse poetry as well
[13:44:56] <CO2> well she escaped from the timelock AND she got dead people from different points in time
[13:44:58] <CO2> whatever she did
[13:45:03] <CO2> she cleary has a tardis available
[13:45:21] <ladymondegreen> that said, criticism of art is profoundly important, especially when that art is powerful, wide spread and backed by billions of dollars
[13:45:45] <Electric91> Yeah, it is.
[13:45:50] <Electric91> I take critique for my own art
[13:45:59] <Electric91> I’ve been highly rated for my own analytics
[13:46:06] <ladymondegreen> CO2: eh...that could just be a phone booth
[13:46:15] <ladymondegreen> and i wouldnt bank on missy having a tardis 
[13:46:23] <ladymondegreen> she might have just stolen other gallifreyan tech
[13:46:30] <CO2> ladymondegreen: except that that area is on street view and doesn't have phone booth in real life
[13:46:36] <CO2> or so someone in the thread says
[13:46:39] <ladymondegreen> CO2: ahh, i was about to ask
[13:47:49] <CO2> apparently most red phone booths have disappeared lately
[13:47:52] <CO2> what with cellphones and all that
[13:47:53] <ladymondegreen> so...does missy having gallifreyan tech mean that she was able to get to gallifrey none that it's possible not time locked?
[13:48:25] <ladymondegreen> s/none/now
[13:48:32] <ladymondegreen> my typing really is atrocious today
[13:48:32] <CO2> ladymondegreen: apparently there was an old who thing about something called the gallifreyan matrix. It was a thing in which the minds of dead timelors were stored
[13:48:39] <CO2> sounds familiar? Yeah.
[13:48:51] <ladymondegreen> CO2: yeah
[13:52:19] <CO2> http://fi.somethingawful.com/safs/titles/9b/5b/00182033.0002.jpg This dude... he's quite the person
[13:52:22] <CO2> also a little crazy
[13:53:03] <CO2> he's an 18yo guy calling himself doctor what and apparently he wears that outfit on a daily basis
[13:55:01] <ladymondegreen> CO2: i'm too lazy to go to the url, which doctor does he dress as
[13:55:27] <CO2> the one with question marks on his collar
[13:55:42] <SpaceHobo> oh man
[13:55:42] <SpaceHobo> oh man
[13:55:45] <SpaceHobo> it's 6
[13:55:59] <SpaceHobo> I liked the interview with colin baker
[13:56:04] <SpaceHobo> who said he basically asked for what eccleston got
[13:56:15] <SpaceHobo> but ended up with that monstrosity
[13:56:30] <SpaceHobo> I have to say it could have worked as a symptom of his temporary madness
[13:56:40] <SpaceHobo> like he'd switch to something more stately once he got over himself
[13:57:24] *** Parts: Electric91 (Electrico@hide-62AEFEE2.coditel.net) ()
[13:57:53] <SpaceHobo> he also grumbled about how "carrot juice" was his doctor's last line
[13:59:42] <CO2> I just don't like how for reasons I don't know eccleston apparently got so angry at the BBC that he refuses to appear in multiple-doctor stories
[14:01:39] *** Joins: Electric91 (Electrico@hide-62AEFEE2.coditel.net)
[14:01:54] * CO2 afk
[14:05:53] <ladymondegreen> CO2: according the comments he's made, the felt the set was abusive towards certain people
[14:05:58] <ladymondegreen> particularly the crew
[14:06:41] <ladymondegreen> and he hasn't sworn off the idea, so far as i know. he was approached by moffat for the 50th, and they did speak
[14:07:19] <ladymondegreen> i dunno, i think eccelston has been a class act about the whole thing. despite enormous pressure to speak, by and large, he hasn't. and the bcc really screwed him over in a number of ways
[14:07:30] <ladymondegreen> that he was leaving after one season was leaked before the season started
[14:08:05] <ladymondegreen> which not only fucked him over, and unleashed a torrent of fan anger on him, but also could have screwed the show over
[14:09:36] <Electric91> ladymondegreen:  do you have any arts i can see?
[14:10:40] <ladymondegreen> you can read the my reviews. that's the only thing that i've published under a name tied to this one
[14:13:32] <Electric91> Oh, sure
[14:13:49] <Electric91> Do you write only in English?
[14:14:56] <ladymondegreen> yeah, pretty much
[14:15:20] <ladymondegreen> some of my poetry has lines in other languages, or uses specific words from other languages, but thats the extent of it really
[14:15:31] <Electric91> Ah ok
[14:18:57] <ladymondegreen> http://songarchaeology.com/a-scandal-in-belgravia-reviewed, http://songarchaeology.com/the-time-of-the-doctor-recap-and-review, http://songarchaeology.com/on-agency-and-moffat-messing-with-women
[14:19:00] <Electric91> Is it ok i PM you drawings i’ve done etc
[14:19:39] <ladymondegreen> sure, though i cant look right now
[14:20:06] <Electric91> Is it your website?
[14:20:12] <Electric91> It heavily fucks up on my browser.
[14:20:20] <Electric91> I can’t read anything because it overlays
[14:20:54] <ladymondegreen> yes, its my website
[14:20:56] <ladymondegreen> what browser?
[14:21:01] <ladymondegreen> and are you blocking scripts?
[14:21:03] <Electric91> Chrome on mac osx mavericks
[14:21:05] <Electric91> No
[14:21:13] <Electric91> First time i have this
[14:25:15] <Kliment> Works4me on firefox with massive everything blocking
[14:26:06] <ladymondegreen> yeah, i just tested it in chrome, on a mac running osx mavericks
[14:26:10] <ladymondegreen> it works fine Electric91
[14:26:38] <Electric91> I’m checking
[14:27:16] <Electric91> It works on my firefox, oddly
[14:27:21] <Electric91> So i'll sort my chrome later
[14:30:59] <ladymondegreen> you probably have some sort of addon that's interfering with the page
[14:31:19] <Electric91> Yes
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[16:42:13] <Futhark> Hello!
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[16:56:26] <rcombs> Steins;Gate worked out the paradox of saving someone because you know they died quite effectively
[16:57:19] <rcombs> and did it with far fewer resources than the Doctor has
[17:01:58] <ladymondegreen> rcombs: ??
[17:02:13] <rcombs> ladymondegreen: ??
[17:02:27] <ladymondegreen> oh hey, rcombs, can you take stick the last day of backlog into a pastebin for me please?
[17:03:39] <rcombs> uh… my log files are split by date, and I think it's by UTC date; which one(s) do you want?
[17:03:48] <rcombs> that last comment was re: the latest episode
[17:03:53] <ladymondegreen> uh....let me maths for a comment
[17:04:02] <ladymondegreen> s/comment/moment
[17:04:22] *** rcombs changes topic to '00,028x11 Dark Water | 8x10 The Forest of the Night | 8x09 Flatline | 8x08 Mummy on the Orient Express | 8x07 Kill the Moon | 8x06 The Caretaker: http://j.mp/Who8x06 | 8x05 Time Heist: http://j.mp/Who8x05 | 8x04 Listen: http://j.mp/Who8x04 | 8x03 Robot of Sherwood: http://j.mp/Who8x03'
[17:04:26] <ladymondegreen> well, i want the last 24 hours, so today and yesterday should do it
[17:05:13] <rcombs> alright, I'll just concatenate November then
[17:05:22] <ladymondegreen> heh, yeah