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sywhb/original_content.html

Created October 29, 2022 02:41
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original_content.html
<html style="">
<head>
<title>Nick Cammarata On Jhana</title>
<style>
@media all and (-ms-high-contrast: none), (-ms-high-contrast: active) {
.typography .markup table.image-wrapper img,
.typography.editor .markup table.image-wrapper img,
.typography .markup table.kindle-wrapper img,
.typography.editor .markup table.kindle-wrapper img {
max-width: 550px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.typography .markup div.youtube-inner div.youtube-screen,
.typography.editor .markup div.youtube-inner div.youtube-screen,
.typography .markup div.vimeo-inner div.youtube-screen,
.typography.editor .markup div.vimeo-inner div.youtube-screen {
display: none !important;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 370px) {
.typography .markup div.tiktok-wrap,
.typography.editor .markup div.tiktok-wrap {
width: calc(95vw - 32px);
height: calc((95vw - 32px - 2px) / 0.485714);
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.typography
.markup
div.embedded-publication-wrap
.embedded-publication.show-subscribe,
.typography.editor
.markup
div.embedded-publication-wrap
.embedded-publication.show-subscribe {
padding: 24px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.typography
.markup
div.subscription-widget-wrap
.subscription-widget.show-subscribe,
.typography.editor
.markup
div.subscription-widget-wrap
.subscription-widget.show-subscribe,
.typography
.markup
div.captioned-button-wrap
.subscription-widget.show-subscribe,
.typography.editor
.markup
div.captioned-button-wrap
.subscription-widget.show-subscribe {
padding: 24px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.typography
.markup
div.subscription-widget-wrap
.subscription-widget.show-subscribe
.subscription-widget-subscribe
.button,
.typography.editor
.markup
div.subscription-widget-wrap
.subscription-widget.show-subscribe
.subscription-widget-subscribe
.button,
.typography
.markup
div.captioned-button-wrap
.subscription-widget.show-subscribe
.subscription-widget-subscribe
.button,
.typography.editor
.markup
div.captioned-button-wrap
.subscription-widget.show-subscribe
.subscription-widget-subscribe
.button {
padding: 10px 12px;
min-width: 110px;
}
}
@media (max-width: 650px) {
.typography .markup .tweet,
.typography.editor .markup .tweet {
padding: 12px;
}
}
@media (max-width: 650px) {
.typography .markup .tweet .tweet-text,
.typography.editor .markup .tweet .tweet-text {
font-size: 14px;
line-height: 20px;
}
}
@media (max-width: 650px) {
.typography .markup .tweet .tweet-photos-container.two,
.typography.editor .markup .tweet .tweet-photos-container.two,
.typography .markup .tweet .tweet-photos-container.three,
.typography.editor .markup .tweet .tweet-photos-container.three,
.typography .markup .tweet .tweet-photos-container.four,
.typography.editor .markup .tweet .tweet-photos-container.four {
height: 200px;
}
}
@media (max-width: 650px) {
.typography .markup .tweet a.expanded-link .expanded-link-img,
.typography.editor .markup .tweet a.expanded-link .expanded-link-img {
max-height: 180px;
}
}
@media (max-width: 650px) {
.typography .markup .tweet a.expanded-link .expanded-link-description,
.typography.editor
.markup
.tweet
a.expanded-link
.expanded-link-description {
display: none;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.typography .markup .apple-podcast-container,
.typography.editor .markup .apple-podcast-container {
width: unset;
}
}
@media (max-width: 420px) {
.typography
.markup
.install-substack-app-embed
img.install-substack-app-embed-img,
.typography.editor
.markup
.install-substack-app-embed
img.install-substack-app-embed-img {
margin: 0 auto 16px auto;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 420px) and (max-width: 600px) {
.typography
.markup
.install-substack-app-embed
.install-substack-app-embed-text,
.typography.editor
.markup
.install-substack-app-embed
.install-substack-app-embed-text {
max-width: calc(100% - 100px);
width: initial;
}
}
@media (max-width: 420px) {
.typography
.markup
.install-substack-app-embed
.install-substack-app-embed-text,
.typography.editor
.markup
.install-substack-app-embed
.install-substack-app-embed-text {
margin: 0 0 12px 0;
max-width: 100%;
width: auto;
text-align: center;
}
}
@media (max-width: 600px) {
.typography
.markup
.install-substack-app-embed
.install-substack-app-embed-link,
.typography.editor
.markup
.install-substack-app-embed
.install-substack-app-embed-link {
margin-top: 16px;
width: 100%;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 481px) {
.share-button-container {
height: 38px;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 481px) {
.share-button-container a.comment {
height: 38px;
line-height: 38px;
padding-right: 10px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 480px) {
.share-button-container .separator {
display: block;
margin: 0;
height: 8px;
border-left: none;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 480px) {
.share-button-container a.share.first img {
padding-left: 0;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 481px) {
.share-button-container a.mobile {
display: none !important;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.social-media-share-preview__description {
-webkit-line-clamp: 2;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 1000px) {
.congrats-box {
flex-direction: column;
}
.congrats-box .congrats-box-right {
margin-left: 38px;
margin-top: 16px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 500px) {
.congrats-box {
display: none;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 541px) {
.settings-add-pub-modal-wrapper
.container
.add-recommending-pub-modal-container {
padding: 36px;
height: 680px;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 541px) {
.settings-add-pub-modal-wrapper
.container
.add-recommending-pub-modal-container
.footer {
position: absolute;
bottom: 36px;
margin: 0px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 840px) {
.header-with-anchor-widget .header-anchor-widget,
.header-anchor-container .header-anchor-widget {
display: none;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 768px) {
.post {
padding: 32px 0 0 0;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.post .post-header .post-label {
margin-top: 8px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.post
.post-header
.meta-author-wrap.alternative-meta
.meta-right-column
.post-meta {
margin-top: 6px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.post .post-footer.use-separators {
justify-content: center;
margin: 0 -16px;
padding: 0;
gap: 0;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.post .post-footer.next-prev {
height: 64px;
justify-content: space-between;
box-sizing: border-box;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.post-contributor-footer .post-contributor-bio-table {
display: block;
}
.post-contributor-footer .post-contributor-bio-table-row {
display: flex;
flex-direction: row;
}
.post-contributor-footer .post-contributor-bio-userhead-cell,
.post-contributor-footer .post-contributor-bio-body-cell {
display: block;
}
.post-contributor-footer .post-contributor-bio-body-cell {
flex-grow: 1;
}
.post-contributor-footer .post-contributor-bio-body-table {
display: block;
}
.post-contributor-footer .post-contributor-bio-body-table-row {
display: block;
}
.post-contributor-footer .post-contributor-bio-copy-cell,
.post-contributor-footer .post-contributor-bio-controls-cell {
display: block;
}
.post-contributor-footer .post-contributor-bio-copy-cell {
margin: 0 0 16px 0;
}
.post-contributor-footer .post-contributor-bio-controls-cell {
width: auto;
}
.post-contributor-footer .post-contributor-bio-controls {
margin: auto;
}
.post-contributor-footer
.post-contributor-bio-controls
.button.primary {
width: 100%;
}
.post-contributor-footer .post-contributor-bio-text {
font-size: 14px;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 768px) {
.post-silhouette {
padding: 16px 0;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.post-silhouette .post-silhouette-title {
margin-top: 10.44225025px;
height: 120px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.post-silhouette .post-silhouette-meta {
width: 75%;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.post-silhouette .post-silhouette-meta.with-byline-image {
margin: 20px 0;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.use-theme-bg .post-meta.alternative-meta .post-meta-item,
.post-meta.alternative-meta .post-meta-item {
padding-right: 16px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 370px) {
.use-theme-bg .post-meta.alternative-meta .post-meta-item,
.post-meta.alternative-meta .post-meta-item {
font-size: 14px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.use-theme-bg
.post-meta.alternative-meta
.post-meta-item.guest-author-publication,
.post-meta.alternative-meta .post-meta-item.guest-author-publication {
display: none;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 370px) {
.post-meta .post-meta-item .post-meta-button {
height: 36px !important;
}
.post-meta .post-meta-item .post-meta-button .meta-button-label {
display: none;
}
.post-meta .post-meta-item .post-meta-button > svg {
margin-right: 0;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 370px) {
.post-meta .post-meta-item {
font-size: 12px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.post-preview > .post-preview-content .post-preview-meta {
margin-top: 12px 0;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.post-preview > .post-preview-image {
display: none;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.post-preview-silhouette .post-preview-silhouette-image {
display: none;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.post .floating-subscribe-button {
bottom: 20px;
right: 20px;
}
}
@media all and (-ms-high-contrast: none), (-ms-high-contrast: active) {
body .markup table.image-wrapper img,
body .markup table.kindle-wrapper img {
max-width: 550px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
body .markup div.youtube-inner div.youtube-screen,
body .markup div.vimeo-inner div.youtube-screen {
display: none !important;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 370px) {
body .markup div.tiktok-wrap {
width: calc(95vw - 32px);
height: calc((95vw - 32px - 2px) / 0.485714);
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
body
.markup
div.embedded-publication-wrap
.embedded-publication.show-subscribe {
padding: 24px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
body
.markup
div.subscription-widget-wrap
.subscription-widget.show-subscribe,
body
.markup
div.captioned-button-wrap
.subscription-widget.show-subscribe {
padding: 24px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
body
.markup
div.subscription-widget-wrap
.subscription-widget.show-subscribe
.subscription-widget-subscribe
.button,
body
.markup
div.captioned-button-wrap
.subscription-widget.show-subscribe
.subscription-widget-subscribe
.button {
padding: 10px 12px;
min-width: 110px;
}
}
@media (max-width: 650px) {
body .markup .tweet {
padding: 12px;
}
}
@media (max-width: 650px) {
body .markup .tweet .tweet-text {
font-size: 14px;
line-height: 20px;
}
}
@media (max-width: 650px) {
body .markup .tweet .tweet-photos-container.two,
body .markup .tweet .tweet-photos-container.three,
body .markup .tweet .tweet-photos-container.four {
height: 200px;
}
}
@media (max-width: 650px) {
body .markup .tweet a.expanded-link .expanded-link-img {
max-height: 180px;
}
}
@media (max-width: 650px) {
body .markup .tweet a.expanded-link .expanded-link-description {
display: none;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
body .markup .apple-podcast-container {
width: unset;
}
}
@media (max-width: 420px) {
body
.markup
.install-substack-app-embed
img.install-substack-app-embed-img {
margin: 0 auto 16px auto;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 420px) and (max-width: 600px) {
body
.markup
.install-substack-app-embed
.install-substack-app-embed-text {
max-width: calc(100% - 100px);
width: initial;
}
}
@media (max-width: 420px) {
body
.markup
.install-substack-app-embed
.install-substack-app-embed-text {
margin: 0 0 12px 0;
max-width: 100%;
width: auto;
text-align: center;
}
}
@media (max-width: 600px) {
body
.markup
.install-substack-app-embed
.install-substack-app-embed-link {
margin-top: 16px;
width: 100%;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 500px) {
body .header a.logo {
width: 42px;
height: 42px;
border-radius: 8px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 420px) {
body
.subscription-receipt
table:first-of-type
.subscription-amount
.subscription-discount {
width: 72px !important;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 481px) {
body .share-button-container {
height: auto;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 480px) {
body .share-button-container .separator {
display: block !important;
margin: 0 !important;
height: 8px !important;
border-left: none !important;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
body .footer {
outline: 8px solid #eeeeee !important;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.digest .item .post-meta-item.audience {
display: none;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 500px) {
.digest-publication .logo img {
width: 42px;
height: 42px;
border-radius: 4px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.comments-page .container .comment-list .collapsed-reply {
margin-left: 17px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.comment > .comment-list {
padding-left: 25px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.finish-magic-login-modal .modal-content .container {
padding: 24px 0;
}
}
@media (max-width: 650px) {
.reader2-text-b3 {
line-height: 22px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.reader2-text-h4 {
line-height: 22px;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 541px) {
.user-profile-modal {
padding-left: 12px;
padding-right: 12px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.subscribe-widget form.form .sideBySideWrap button.rightButton {
padding: 10px 12px;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 541px) {
.pub-icon:hover .logo-hover,
.feed-item-icon:hover .logo-hover {
display: block;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 768px) {
.file-embed-wrapper {
padding: 0;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 768px) {
.file-embed-wrapper-editor {
padding: 0;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 768px) {
.file-embed-wrapper-editor:active {
padding: 0;
}
}
@media only screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.file-embed-button.wide,
.file-embed-error-button.wide {
display: none;
}
}
@media only screen and (min-width: 630px) {
.file-embed-button.narrow,
.file-embed-error-button.narrow {
display: none;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 541px) {
.audio-player-wrapper .audio-player {
min-width: 500px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.audio-player-wrapper .audio-player .audio-player-progress {
border-left-width: 16px;
border-right-width: 16px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.audio-player-wrapper
.audio-player
.audio-player-progress
.audio-player-progress-bar
.audio-player-progress-bar-popup {
top: -54px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy .audio-player .audio-player-progress {
border-left-width: 16px;
border-right-width: 16px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy
.audio-player
.audio-player-progress
.audio-player-progress-bar
.audio-player-progress-bar-popup {
top: -54px;
}
}
@media (min-width: 250px) {
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy .audio-player {
padding: 32px;
}
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy .audio-player .btn-group {
display: flex;
}
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy
.audio-player
.btn-group
.button:last-of-type {
display: block;
}
}
@media (min-width: 300px) {
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy .audio-player .btn-group {
display: block;
}
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy
.audio-player
.btn-group
.button:first-of-type {
display: block;
}
}
@media (min-width: 350px) {
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy .audio-player .audio-player-substack-logo {
display: block;
}
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy .audio-player .audio-player-title {
margin-top: 16px;
}
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy
.audio-player
.audio-player-hero-image-container {
padding-top: 15%;
width: 15%;
display: block;
}
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy
.audio-player
.btn-group
.button:first-of-type {
display: block;
}
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy .audio-player .audio-player-substack-logo {
display: block;
}
}
@media (min-width: 350px) {
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy
.audio-player
.audio-player-hero-image-container {
padding-top: 25%;
width: 25%;
display: block;
}
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy .audio-player .btn-group {
display: flex;
}
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy
.audio-player
.btn-group
.button:first-of-type {
display: block;
}
}
@media (min-width: 400px) {
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy
.audio-player
.audio-player-hero-image-container {
padding-top: 40%;
width: 40%;
}
}
@media (max-width: 400px) {
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy .audio-player .btn-group {
margin-top: 12px;
}
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy .audio-player .btn-group .button {
font-size: 13px;
padding: 6px 12px;
height: auto;
margin-top: 10px;
}
}
@media (min-width: 600px) {
.audio-player-wrapper-fancy
.audio-player
.audio-player-hero-image-container {
padding-top: 55%;
width: 55%;
}
}
@media (max-width: 650px) {
.poll-editor-modal {
min-width: calc(100% - 20px);
}
}
@media (max-width: 750px) {
.poll-embed .poll-anchor-target .poll-anchor-copy-button {
left: 8px;
top: 45px;
}
}
@media screen and (min-width: 541px) {
.poll-embed
.poll-wrapper.poll-web
.poll-dialog
.modal-table
.modal-row
.modal-content
> .container {
width: 552px;
padding: 26px 24px;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.poll-embed
.poll-wrapper.poll-web
.poll-dialog
.modal-table
.modal-row
.modal-content
> .container {
padding: 40px 0;
}
}
@media screen and (max-width: 650px) {
.poll-embed
.poll-wrapper.poll-web
.poll-dialog
.modal-row
.modal-cell
.modal-exit-btn {
margin-right: -20px;
}
}
@media not all and (min-resolution: 0.001dpcm) {
}
</style>
</head>
<body class="email-body" style="font-kerning: auto">
<img
src="https://mailgun.substack.com/api/v1/email/open?token=eyJtIjoiPDIwMjIxMDI3MDEzNTEzLjMuNWIyOTAyMzRmMTcyYjQ0OUBtZy1kMC5zdWJzdGFjay5jb20-IiwidSI6NDc1MDAzLCJyIjoianJkbS13bFZkUU0wQmVAaW5ib3gub21uaXZvcmUuYXBwIiwiZCI6Im1nLWQwLnN1YnN0YWNrLmNvbSIsInAiOjgwMDQyOTQ1LCJ0IjoibmV3c2xldHRlciIsImEiOiJldmVyeW9uZSIsInMiOjg5MTIwLCJjIjoicG9zdCIsImYiOnRydWUsInBvc2l0aW9uIjoidG9wIiwiaWF0IjoxNjY2ODM0NTQzLCJleHAiOjE2Njk0MjY1NDMsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0wIiwic3ViIjoiZW8ifQ.IcfQCMJtDJKAGzoo1rP0vcelhBcoWmiUXo_CsZbuNxg"
alt=""
width="1"
height="1"
border="0"
style="
height: 1px !important;
width: 1px !important;
border-width: 0 !important;
margin-top: 0 !important;
margin-bottom: 0 !important;
margin-right: 0 !important;
margin-left: 0 !important;
padding-top: 0 !important;
padding-bottom: 0 !important;
padding-right: 0 !important;
padding-left: 0 !important;
"
/>
<div
style="
display: none;
font-size: 1px;
color: #333333;
line-height: 1px;
max-height: 0px;
max-width: 0px;
opacity: 0;
overflow: hidden;
"
class="preview"
>
...
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<a
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...
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<time datetime="2022-10-27T01:35:19.613Z">Oct 27</time>
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<p
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>
Buddhists say that if you meditate enough, you can learn to
enter a state of extreme bliss called jhana.
</p>
<p
style="
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>
<span>(there are many different jhana states - </span
><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/2e0d2904-059c-4740-93f9-503401e95bba?r=a6ij"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>there&#8217;s a discussion of the distinctions here</a
><span>
- but I&#8217;m lumping them together for simplicity. For
attempted explanations of why jhana should exist, see </span
><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/fc65f75b-06af-4076-840b-e2c051da70c9?r=a6ij"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>here </a
><span>and </span
><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/2438cc78-7aa3-4c18-87f6-b6dee71def4e?r=a6ij"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>here</a
><span>.)</span>
</p>
<p
style="
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>
Jhana is different from enlightenment. Enlightenment changes
you forever. Jhana is just a state you can enter during
meditation sessions, then leave when the session is over.
Enlightenment takes years or decades of work, but some people
describe reaching jhana after a few months of practice.
Hardcore Buddhists insist that jhana is good only insofar as
it serves as a stepping stone to enlightenment; others may
find extreme bliss desirable in its own right.
</p>
<p
style="
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>
<a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/531fa11c-b3f6-4eb5-96d4-8dd2129ed5cc?r=a6ij"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>Nick Cammarata</a
><span>
of OpenAI sometimes meditates and reaches jhana. I&#8217;ve
found his descriptions unusually, well, descriptive:</span
>
</p>
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<span
class="tweet-author-name"
style="display: block; font-weight: 600"
>Nick </span
><span
class="tweet-author-handle"
style="color: #808080; display: block"
>@nickcammarata</span
>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="tweet-text"
style="
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>
<span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@rgblong</span
><span> </span
><span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@algekalipso</span
><span>
one obvious thing is jhana but it's such a simple state
it's hard to compare to normal life, just different
axes. Best comparable I have for jhana is sex (many
people compare these) bc they're surprisingly similar.
Jhana killed my desire for casual sex bc it's 10-100x
better</span
>
</div></a
><a
class="tweet-link-bottom"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/8fb253d0-0cec-4aef-80c0-2f5945c9bd4e?r=a6ij"
target="_blank"
rel=""
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>
<span class="tweet-date" style="color: #808080; flex: 1"
>6:46 PM &#8729; Oct 19, 2022</span
>
</div></a
>
</div>
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<span
class="tweet-author-name"
style="display: block; font-weight: 600"
>Nick </span
><span
class="tweet-author-handle"
style="color: #808080; display: block"
>@nickcammarata</span
>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="tweet-text"
style="
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"
>
<span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@rgblong</span
><span> </span
><span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@algekalipso</span
><span>
or said differently, if I could have my max ideal
everything is 100% perfect casual sex fantasy situation,
any partner or set of partners etc (but none in a
romantic relationship) or sit in quiet in jhana I'd
definitely do the latter</span
>
</div></a
><a
class="tweet-link-bottom"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/3b2e7e6a-30ed-4017-b0a9-7f8312b7aefa?r=a6ij"
target="_blank"
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>
<span class="tweet-date" style="color: #808080; flex: 1"
>6:47 PM &#8729; Oct 19, 2022</span
>
</div></a
>
</div>
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<span
class="tweet-author-name"
style="display: block; font-weight: 600"
>Nick </span
><span
class="tweet-author-handle"
style="color: #808080; display: block"
>@nickcammarata</span
>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="tweet-text"
style="
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"
>
<span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@rgblong</span
><span> </span
><span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@algekalipso</span
><span>
jhana made me not crave pleasure so much anymore. Cured
that &quot;addiction&quot; via surplus. So I don't
actually do it that much, and I usually forget that I
can do it (this is common) rather than having to limit
myself. Much prefer not be in pain and just live a
normal peaceful day</span
>
</div></a
><a
class="tweet-link-bottom"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/96e46730-afdb-4c29-972e-082c84668070?r=a6ij"
target="_blank"
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>
<span class="tweet-date" style="color: #808080; flex: 1"
>6:52 PM &#8729; Oct 19, 2022</span
>
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>
<span
href="https://twitter.com/nickcammarata/status/1582806870233821184/likes"
class="likes"
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><span
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>19</span
><span>Likes</span></span
><span
href="https://twitter.com/nickcammarata/status/1582806870233821184/retweets"
class="retweets"
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color: #808080;
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><span
class="rt-count"
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>3</span
><span>Retweets</span></span
>
</div>
</div></a
>
</div>
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>
<span
class="tweet-author-name"
style="display: block; font-weight: 600"
>Nick </span
><span
class="tweet-author-handle"
style="color: #808080; display: block"
>@nickcammarata</span
>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="tweet-text"
style="
font-size: 20px;
line-height: 24px;
margin-bottom: 16px;
"
>
<span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@rgblong</span
><span> </span
><span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@algekalipso</span
><span>
the best analogy I have is if you're extremely thirsty
you'd do anything for water but if you're barely thirsty
it's kind of just nice and helpful. And you certainly
wouldn't break a bone for it. Pre jhana I was always
&quot;thirsty&quot; for feeling good, now I'm a lot less
so</span
>
</div></a
><a
class="tweet-link-bottom"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/3b5361f3-196c-4b4a-b677-219ba9263cff?r=a6ij"
target="_blank"
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>
<span class="tweet-date" style="color: #808080; flex: 1"
>6:54 PM &#8729; Oct 19, 2022</span
>
</div></a
>
</div>
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>
<span
class="tweet-author-name"
style="display: block; font-weight: 600"
>Nick </span
><span
class="tweet-author-handle"
style="color: #808080; display: block"
>@nickcammarata</span
>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="tweet-text"
style="
font-size: 20px;
line-height: 24px;
margin-bottom: 16px;
"
>
<span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@algekalipso</span
><span> </span
><span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@rgblong</span
><span>
any idea why it reduces cravings for pleasure so much
rather than just causing addiction? It's very strange
that 1. happiness buttons are real and you can press
them whenever with ~only positive side effects 2.
they're so non-addictive that you forget about
them</span
>
</div></a
><a
class="tweet-link-bottom"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/14790e07-50f5-4ca8-846e-2d7789310367?r=a6ij"
target="_blank"
rel=""
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>
<span class="tweet-date" style="color: #808080; flex: 1"
>7:00 PM &#8729; Oct 19, 2022</span
>
<hr
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>
<span
href="https://twitter.com/nickcammarata/status/1582808823718637568/likes"
class="likes"
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display: block;
float: left;
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><span
class="like-count"
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margin-right: 4px;
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>12</span
><span>Likes</span></span
><span
href="https://twitter.com/nickcammarata/status/1582808823718637568/retweets"
class="retweets"
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><span
class="rt-count"
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margin-right: 4px;
"
>1</span
><span>Retweet</span></span
>
</div>
</div></a
>
</div>
<p
style="
color: #404040;
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line-height: 26px;
margin: 0 0 20px 0;
"
>
And he links to others with similar perspectives:
</p>
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'Segoe UI Symbol';
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>
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class="tweet-link-top"
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target="_blank"
rel=""
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alt="Twitter avatar for @RomeoStevens76"
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<span
class="tweet-author-name"
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>RomeoStevens </span
><span
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>@RomeoStevens76</span
>
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>
<span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@jd_pressman</span
><span> Jhana is better than orgasm</span>
</div></a
><a
class="tweet-link-bottom"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/39bcd1e2-0d79-46e2-9358-6470302db5fd?r=a6ij"
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<span class="tweet-date" style="color: #808080; flex: 1"
>11:03 PM &#8729; Aug 19, 2022</span
>
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>
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<span
class="tweet-author-name"
style="display: block; font-weight: 600"
>Lady Red is investigating bliss </span
><span
class="tweet-author-handle"
style="color: #808080; display: block"
>@ladymcscope</span
>
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<div
class="tweet-text"
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>
Jhana practice is making me pretty weird. I&#8217;m
blissing put in macys. After ~2 hour practice session
today, I did an errand and went to macys for a duvet. Uhh,
my senses are heightened and touching fabric feels as
intense as sex&#8230; and all my pleasures just echo and
grow inside me
</div></a
><a
class="tweet-link-bottom"
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>
<span class="tweet-date" style="color: #808080; flex: 1"
>10:46 PM &#8729; Oct 9, 2022</span
>
</div></a
>
</div>
<p
style="
color: #404040;
font-size: 16px;
line-height: 26px;
margin: 0 0 20px 0;
"
>
In other words: jhana is incredibly blissful, orders of
magnitude better than even amazing sex. With enough meditation
ability, you can access it on demand, with no side effects.
But it isn&#8217;t addictive; Nick maintains a normal job and
social life. As far as I know, he doesn&#8217;t steal from his
friends to buy more incense and meditation cushions. In fact,
jhana is so non-reinforcing that Nick often
&#8220;forgets&#8221; it&#8217;s even an option.
</p>
<p
style="
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>
<span
>We&#8217;ve been talking recently about the difference
between </span
><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/bc5ab8de-9973-43ee-934d-be986331d9a7?r=a6ij"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>happiness and reinforcement</a
><span> (cf </span
><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/80a9dd8f-dfa2-4572-96c7-b798d8972b2d?r=a6ij"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>wanting vs. liking</a
><span
>). If jhana works the way that Nick and others describe it,
then it&#8217;s an extreme example of this distinction -
almost maximally pleasurable, but with disproportionately
little (zero?) reinforcement value. I don&#8217;t think
normal models of reward have a good explanation here.</span
>
</p>
<p
style="
color: #404040;
font-size: 16px;
line-height: 26px;
margin: 0 0 20px 0;
"
>
<span
>This is one reason I&#8217;m still interested in Qualia
Research Institute ideas like the </span
><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/25a3c928-a8bd-4bbd-9cf7-1222bc5bd316?r=a6ij"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>Symmetry Theory of Valence</a
><span>, even though there are </span
><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/f5b396e1-7fef-475a-93b8-e3d37c6de9ea?r=a6ij"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>some strong objections to them</a
><span
>. I interpret QRI as coming at the problem from the
opposite direction as everyone else: normal neuroscience
starts with normal brain behavior and tries to build on it
until they can one day explain crazy things like jhana; QRI
starts with crazy things like jhana and tries to build down
until they can explain ordinary behavior. This is naturally
going to be shakier and harder to research - but somebody
should be trying it.</span
>
</p>
<p
style="
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margin: 0 0 20px 0;
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>
Discussion questions:
</p>
<ol style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; padding: 0">
<li style="margin: 8px 0 0 32px">
<p
style="
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>
Suppose there were a town where you could eat infinite
amazing food without any weight gain, have amazing sex
with as many attractive people as you wanted, and watch
the greatest shows and symphonies in the world, all for
free. Also you have lots of great friends there who are
always willing to hang out and have fun with you. How far
away (in minutes) would that town need to be from your
house before you went there less than once a week? Once a
month?
</p>
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<p
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>
Suppose that you read this post and decide to study
meditation to reach jhana. You study hard for six months,
succeed, and it&#8217;s even better than you imagined -
but it isn&#8217;t reinforcing on a neurological level.
Does this register as negative prediction error in the
reward center? Would it make you less likely to try plans
like &#8220;study meditation&#8221; in the future, because
they &#8220;don&#8217;t pay off&#8221;?
</p>
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>
When Nick says that he&#8217;s less interested in casual
sex now, because jhana is an easier way to get pleasure,
what is going on at a neurological level? Is this
nonsense? If some sex addict who says &#8220;it&#8217;s
not even pleasurable anymore, I just feel like it&#8217;s
a compulsion&#8221; learned to access jhana, would this
cure his sex addiction?
</p>
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""", "description" : "...", "title" : "Nick Cammarata On Jhana", "author" :
"Astral Codex Ten", "url" :
"https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/nick-cammarata-on-jhana", "pageType" :
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"nick-cammarata-on-jhana-1841714de80", "content" : """
<div id="readability-content">
<div class="page" id="readability-page-1">
<div data-omnivore-anchor-idx="1">
<div data-omnivore-anchor-idx="2" dir="auto">
<h3 data-omnivore-anchor-idx="3">...</h3>
</div>
<div data-omnivore-anchor-idx="4" dir="auto">
<p data-omnivore-anchor-idx="5">
Buddhists say that if you meditate enough, you can learn to enter a
state of extreme bliss called jhana.
</p>
<p data-omnivore-anchor-idx="6">
<span data-omnivore-anchor-idx="7"
>(there are many different jhana states - </span
><a
data-omnivore-anchor-idx="8"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/eb48f0b4-84a4-411f-aef0-ad34ffe3e1ca?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
>there’s a discussion of the distinctions here</a
><span data-omnivore-anchor-idx="9">
- but I’m lumping them together for simplicity. For attempted
explanations of why jhana should exist, see </span
><a
data-omnivore-anchor-idx="10"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/0a26df7a-325e-457c-b6f0-af92b18f8142?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
>here </a
><span data-omnivore-anchor-idx="11">and </span
><a
data-omnivore-anchor-idx="12"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/7b2f8aaa-6bd7-4a74-b706-69fe72cb4805?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
>here</a
><span data-omnivore-anchor-idx="13">.)</span>
</p>
<p data-omnivore-anchor-idx="14">
Jhana is different from enlightenment. Enlightenment changes you
forever. Jhana is just a state you can enter during meditation
sessions, then leave when the session is over. Enlightenment takes
years or decades of work, but some people describe reaching jhana
after a few months of practice. Hardcore Buddhists insist that jhana
is good only insofar as it serves as a stepping stone to
enlightenment; others may find extreme bliss desirable in its own
right.
</p>
<p data-omnivore-anchor-idx="15">
<a
data-omnivore-anchor-idx="16"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/c0593230-d5a4-4856-8cc9-69956a9db2b1?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
>Nick Cammarata</a
><span data-omnivore-anchor-idx="17">
of OpenAI sometimes meditates and reaches jhana. I’ve found his
descriptions unusually, well, descriptive:</span
>
</p>
<p data-omnivore-anchor-idx="18">
And he links to others with similar perspectives:
</p>
<p data-omnivore-anchor-idx="19">
In other words: jhana is incredibly blissful, orders of magnitude
better than even amazing sex. With enough meditation ability, you can
access it on demand, with no side effects. But it isn’t addictive;
Nick maintains a normal job and social life. As far as I know, he
doesn’t steal from his friends to buy more incense and meditation
cushions. In fact, jhana is so non-reinforcing that Nick often
“forgets” it’s even an option.
</p>
<p data-omnivore-anchor-idx="20">
<span data-omnivore-anchor-idx="21"
>We’ve been talking recently about the difference between </span
><a
data-omnivore-anchor-idx="22"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/c4d98691-185b-487b-bab6-509c297fe11b?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
>happiness and reinforcement</a
><span data-omnivore-anchor-idx="23"> (cf </span
><a
data-omnivore-anchor-idx="24"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/07e3cc16-5e31-46a3-9830-9acda2260330?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
>wanting vs. liking</a
><span data-omnivore-anchor-idx="25"
>). If jhana works the way that Nick and others describe it, then
it’s an extreme example of this distinction - almost maximally
pleasurable, but with disproportionately little (zero?)
reinforcement value. I don’t think normal models of reward have a
good explanation here.</span
>
</p>
<p data-omnivore-anchor-idx="26">
<span data-omnivore-anchor-idx="27"
>This is one reason I’m still interested in Qualia Research
Institute ideas like the </span
><a
data-omnivore-anchor-idx="28"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/ac73c028-e089-4809-8722-b3c43ed4f94d?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
>Symmetry Theory of Valence</a
><span data-omnivore-anchor-idx="29">, even though there are </span
><a
data-omnivore-anchor-idx="30"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/ffadadd6-8578-4147-afa4-d82f689cc408?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
>some strong objections to them</a
><span data-omnivore-anchor-idx="31"
>. I interpret QRI as coming at the problem from the opposite
direction as everyone else: normal neuroscience starts with normal
brain behavior and tries to build on it until they can one day
explain crazy things like jhana; QRI starts with crazy things like
jhana and tries to build down until they can explain ordinary
behavior. This is naturally going to be shakier and harder to
research - but somebody should be trying it.</span
>
</p>
<p data-omnivore-anchor-idx="32">Discussion questions:</p>
<ol data-omnivore-anchor-idx="33">
<li data-omnivore-anchor-idx="34">
<p data-omnivore-anchor-idx="35">
Suppose there were a town where you could eat infinite amazing
food without any weight gain, have amazing sex with as many
attractive people as you wanted, and watch the greatest shows and
symphonies in the world, all for free. Also you have lots of great
friends there who are always willing to hang out and have fun with
you. How far away (in minutes) would that town need to be from
your house before you went there less than once a week? Once a
month?
</p>
</li>
<li data-omnivore-anchor-idx="36">
<p data-omnivore-anchor-idx="37">
Suppose that you read this post and decide to study meditation to
reach jhana. You study hard for six months, succeed, and it’s even
better than you imagined - but it isn’t reinforcing on a
neurological level. Does this register as negative prediction
error in the reward center? Would it make you less likely to try
plans like “study meditation” in the future, because they “don’t
pay off”?
</p>
</li>
<li data-omnivore-anchor-idx="38">
<p data-omnivore-anchor-idx="39">
When Nick says that he’s less interested in casual sex now,
because jhana is an easier way to get pleasure, what is going on
at a neurological level? Is this nonsense? If some sex addict who
says “it’s not even pleasurable anymore, I just feel like it’s a
compulsion” learned to access jhana, would this cure his sex
addiction?
</p>
</li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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...
&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;&#160;&#8204;
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class="tw-font-body tw-text-ssm tw-text-substack-secondary"
style="
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or
<a
href="https://substack.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.MjJfXmPWE3dgvyROb0gqYErOxbd61Tpb0oKPN7wXaSU?"
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>online</a
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<a
href="https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=89120&post_id=80042945&utm_source=post-email-title&isFreemail=false&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjozOTY4MzEyLCJwb3N0X2lkIjo4MDA0Mjk0NSwiaWF0IjoxNjY2ODM0NTE4LCJleHAiOjE2Njk0MjY1MTgsImlzcyI6InB1Yi04OTEyMCIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.1_t9cqoP1umTMdZs60EzOf1rlQAIXiINP8h8w300OdI"
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>Nick Cammarata On Jhana</a
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...
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<time datetime="2022-10-27T01:35:14.254Z">Oct 27</time>
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>
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dir="auto"
class="body markup"
style="
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<p
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>
Buddhists say that if you meditate enough, you can learn to
enter a state of extreme bliss called jhana.
</p>
<p
style="
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>
<span>(there are many different jhana states - </span
><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/eb48f0b4-84a4-411f-aef0-ad34ffe3e1ca?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>there&#8217;s a discussion of the distinctions here</a
><span>
- but I&#8217;m lumping them together for simplicity. For
attempted explanations of why jhana should exist, see </span
><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/0a26df7a-325e-457c-b6f0-af92b18f8142?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>here </a
><span>and </span
><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/7b2f8aaa-6bd7-4a74-b706-69fe72cb4805?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>here</a
><span>.)</span>
</p>
<p
style="
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>
Jhana is different from enlightenment. Enlightenment changes
you forever. Jhana is just a state you can enter during
meditation sessions, then leave when the session is over.
Enlightenment takes years or decades of work, but some people
describe reaching jhana after a few months of practice.
Hardcore Buddhists insist that jhana is good only insofar as
it serves as a stepping stone to enlightenment; others may
find extreme bliss desirable in its own right.
</p>
<p
style="
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>
<a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/c0593230-d5a4-4856-8cc9-69956a9db2b1?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>Nick Cammarata</a
><span>
of OpenAI sometimes meditates and reaches jhana. I&#8217;ve
found his descriptions unusually, well, descriptive:</span
>
</p>
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<span
class="tweet-author-name"
style="display: block; font-weight: 600"
>Nick </span
><span
class="tweet-author-handle"
style="color: #808080; display: block"
>@nickcammarata</span
>
</div>
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<span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@rgblong</span
><span> </span
><span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@algekalipso</span
><span>
one obvious thing is jhana but it's such a simple state
it's hard to compare to normal life, just different
axes. Best comparable I have for jhana is sex (many
people compare these) bc they're surprisingly similar.
Jhana killed my desire for casual sex bc it's 10-100x
better</span
>
</div></a
><a
class="tweet-link-bottom"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/91abf3a9-2ee3-448c-9967-d33f72d61463?r=2d1yw"
target="_blank"
rel=""
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>
<span class="tweet-date" style="color: #808080; flex: 1"
>6:46 PM &#8729; Oct 19, 2022</span
>
</div></a
>
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rel=""
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<span
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>
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<span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
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><span> </span
><span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@algekalipso</span
><span>
or said differently, if I could have my max ideal
everything is 100% perfect casual sex fantasy situation,
any partner or set of partners etc (but none in a
romantic relationship) or sit in quiet in jhana I'd
definitely do the latter</span
>
</div></a
><a
class="tweet-link-bottom"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/96d678de-5185-41d4-bf7a-296d5ab06651?r=2d1yw"
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<span class="tweet-date" style="color: #808080; flex: 1"
>6:47 PM &#8729; Oct 19, 2022</span
>
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>
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>
<img
class="tweet-header-avatar"
src="https://substackcdn.com/image/twitter_name/w_96/nickcammarata.jpg"
alt="Twitter avatar for @nickcammarata"
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>
<span
class="tweet-author-name"
style="display: block; font-weight: 600"
>Nick </span
><span
class="tweet-author-handle"
style="color: #808080; display: block"
>@nickcammarata</span
>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="tweet-text"
style="
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>
<span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@rgblong</span
><span> </span
><span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@algekalipso</span
><span>
jhana made me not crave pleasure so much anymore. Cured
that &quot;addiction&quot; via surplus. So I don't
actually do it that much, and I usually forget that I
can do it (this is common) rather than having to limit
myself. Much prefer not be in pain and just live a
normal peaceful day</span
>
</div></a
><a
class="tweet-link-bottom"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/5054a9b8-cd68-49be-96d8-6c1d5684b391?r=2d1yw"
target="_blank"
rel=""
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>
<span class="tweet-date" style="color: #808080; flex: 1"
>6:52 PM &#8729; Oct 19, 2022</span
>
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<span
href="https://twitter.com/nickcammarata/status/1582806870233821184/likes"
class="likes"
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><span
class="like-count"
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>19</span
><span>Likes</span></span
><span
href="https://twitter.com/nickcammarata/status/1582806870233821184/retweets"
class="retweets"
style="
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><span
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>3</span
><span>Retweets</span></span
>
</div>
</div></a
>
</div>
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'Segoe UI Symbol';
font-size: 14px;
font-weight: 400;
gap: 12px;
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margin: 32px auto;
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transition: box-shadow 0.2s cubic-bezier(0.16, 1, 0.3, 1),
background-color 0.2s cubic-bezier(0.16, 1, 0.3, 1);
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>
<a
class="tweet-link-top"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/b80b405e-fc0a-4184-8cc1-e717d4d21cd4?r=2d1yw"
target="_blank"
rel=""
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class="tweet-header-avatar"
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alt="Twitter avatar for @nickcammarata"
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>
<span
class="tweet-author-name"
style="display: block; font-weight: 600"
>Nick </span
><span
class="tweet-author-handle"
style="color: #808080; display: block"
>@nickcammarata</span
>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="tweet-text"
style="
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margin-bottom: 16px;
"
>
<span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@rgblong</span
><span> </span
><span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@algekalipso</span
><span>
the best analogy I have is if you're extremely thirsty
you'd do anything for water but if you're barely thirsty
it's kind of just nice and helpful. And you certainly
wouldn't break a bone for it. Pre jhana I was always
&quot;thirsty&quot; for feeling good, now I'm a lot less
so</span
>
</div></a
><a
class="tweet-link-bottom"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/b80b405e-fc0a-4184-8cc1-e717d4d21cd4?r=2d1yw"
target="_blank"
rel=""
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>
<span class="tweet-date" style="color: #808080; flex: 1"
>6:54 PM &#8729; Oct 19, 2022</span
>
</div></a
>
</div>
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transition: box-shadow 0.2s cubic-bezier(0.16, 1, 0.3, 1),
background-color 0.2s cubic-bezier(0.16, 1, 0.3, 1);
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>
<a
class="tweet-link-top"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/134cf62c-d886-4561-8f1b-b161807931bb?r=2d1yw"
target="_blank"
rel=""
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/>
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>
<span
class="tweet-author-name"
style="display: block; font-weight: 600"
>Nick </span
><span
class="tweet-author-handle"
style="color: #808080; display: block"
>@nickcammarata</span
>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="tweet-text"
style="
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margin-bottom: 16px;
"
>
<span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@algekalipso</span
><span> </span
><span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@rgblong</span
><span>
any idea why it reduces cravings for pleasure so much
rather than just causing addiction? It's very strange
that 1. happiness buttons are real and you can press
them whenever with ~only positive side effects 2.
they're so non-addictive that you forget about
them</span
>
</div></a
><a
class="tweet-link-bottom"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/134cf62c-d886-4561-8f1b-b161807931bb?r=2d1yw"
target="_blank"
rel=""
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>
<span class="tweet-date" style="color: #808080; flex: 1"
>7:00 PM &#8729; Oct 19, 2022</span
>
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>
<span
href="https://twitter.com/nickcammarata/status/1582808823718637568/likes"
class="likes"
style="
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float: left;
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><span
class="like-count"
style="
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>12</span
><span>Likes</span></span
><span
href="https://twitter.com/nickcammarata/status/1582808823718637568/retweets"
class="retweets"
style="
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><span
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>1</span
><span>Retweet</span></span
>
</div>
</div></a
>
</div>
<p
style="
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margin: 0 0 20px 0;
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>
And he links to others with similar perspectives:
</p>
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class="tweet static"
style="
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border: 1px solid #e0e0e0;
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direction: ltr;
display: block;
flex-direction: column;
font-family: 'SF Pro Text', -apple-system, ui-sans-serif,
BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji',
'Segoe UI Symbol';
font-size: 14px;
font-weight: 400;
gap: 12px;
line-height: 20px;
margin: 32px auto;
max-width: 550px;
padding: 16px 16px 12px;
transition: box-shadow 0.2s cubic-bezier(0.16, 1, 0.3, 1),
background-color 0.2s cubic-bezier(0.16, 1, 0.3, 1);
"
>
<a
class="tweet-link-top"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/5f37947c-129c-43f3-9a3e-20000fc472ed?r=2d1yw"
target="_blank"
rel=""
style="
color: #404040;
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flex-direction: column;
gap: 12px;
text-decoration: none;
white-space: pre-wrap;
"
><div
class="tweet-header"
style="
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>
<img
class="tweet-header-avatar"
src="https://substackcdn.com/image/twitter_name/w_96/RomeoStevens76.jpg"
alt="Twitter avatar for @RomeoStevens76"
loading="lazy"
style="
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border: none !important;
border-radius: 50%;
display: block;
float: left;
height: 48px;
margin: 0;
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/>
<div
class="tweet-header-text"
style="
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line-height: 20px;
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>
<span
class="tweet-author-name"
style="display: block; font-weight: 600"
>RomeoStevens </span
><span
class="tweet-author-handle"
style="color: #808080; display: block"
>@RomeoStevens76</span
>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="tweet-text"
style="
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margin-bottom: 16px;
"
>
<span class="tweet-fake-link" style="color: #1da1f2"
>@jd_pressman</span
><span> Jhana is better than orgasm</span>
</div></a
><a
class="tweet-link-bottom"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/5f37947c-129c-43f3-9a3e-20000fc472ed?r=2d1yw"
target="_blank"
rel=""
style="
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white-space: pre-wrap;
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><div
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style="
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>
<span class="tweet-date" style="color: #808080; flex: 1"
>11:03 PM &#8729; Aug 19, 2022</span
>
</div></a
>
</div>
<div
class="tweet static"
style="
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background: #ffffff;
border: 1px solid #e0e0e0;
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box-sizing: border-box;
color: #404040;
direction: ltr;
display: block;
flex-direction: column;
font-family: 'SF Pro Text', -apple-system, ui-sans-serif,
BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji',
'Segoe UI Symbol';
font-size: 14px;
font-weight: 400;
gap: 12px;
line-height: 20px;
margin: 32px auto;
max-width: 550px;
padding: 16px 16px 12px;
transition: box-shadow 0.2s cubic-bezier(0.16, 1, 0.3, 1),
background-color 0.2s cubic-bezier(0.16, 1, 0.3, 1);
"
>
<a
class="tweet-link-top"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/21b8f473-0133-40a0-a21b-f325ec0b1902?r=2d1yw"
target="_blank"
rel=""
style="
color: #404040;
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flex-direction: column;
gap: 12px;
text-decoration: none;
white-space: pre-wrap;
"
><div
class="tweet-header"
style="
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gap: 12px;
height: 48px;
line-height: 26px;
margin-bottom: 12px;
"
>
<img
class="tweet-header-avatar"
src="https://substackcdn.com/image/twitter_name/w_96/ladymcscope.jpg"
alt="Twitter avatar for @ladymcscope"
loading="lazy"
style="
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display: block;
float: left;
height: 48px;
margin: 0;
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/>
<div
class="tweet-header-text"
style="
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font-size: 14px;
line-height: 20px;
padding-top: 4px;
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>
<span
class="tweet-author-name"
style="display: block; font-weight: 600"
>Lady Red is investigating bliss </span
><span
class="tweet-author-handle"
style="color: #808080; display: block"
>@ladymcscope</span
>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="tweet-text"
style="
font-size: 20px;
line-height: 24px;
margin-bottom: 16px;
"
>
Jhana practice is making me pretty weird. I&#8217;m
blissing put in macys. After ~2 hour practice session
today, I did an errand and went to macys for a duvet. Uhh,
my senses are heightened and touching fabric feels as
intense as sex&#8230; and all my pleasures just echo and
grow inside me
</div></a
><a
class="tweet-link-bottom"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/21b8f473-0133-40a0-a21b-f325ec0b1902?r=2d1yw"
target="_blank"
rel=""
style="
color: #404040;
display: block;
flex-direction: column;
gap: 12px;
text-decoration: none;
white-space: pre-wrap;
"
><div
class="tweet-footer"
style="
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>
<span class="tweet-date" style="color: #808080; flex: 1"
>10:46 PM &#8729; Oct 9, 2022</span
>
</div></a
>
</div>
<p
style="
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line-height: 26px;
margin: 0 0 20px 0;
"
>
In other words: jhana is incredibly blissful, orders of
magnitude better than even amazing sex. With enough meditation
ability, you can access it on demand, with no side effects.
But it isn&#8217;t addictive; Nick maintains a normal job and
social life. As far as I know, he doesn&#8217;t steal from his
friends to buy more incense and meditation cushions. In fact,
jhana is so non-reinforcing that Nick often
&#8220;forgets&#8221; it&#8217;s even an option.
</p>
<p
style="
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font-size: 16px;
line-height: 26px;
margin: 0 0 20px 0;
"
>
<span
>We&#8217;ve been talking recently about the difference
between </span
><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/c4d98691-185b-487b-bab6-509c297fe11b?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>happiness and reinforcement</a
><span> (cf </span
><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/07e3cc16-5e31-46a3-9830-9acda2260330?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>wanting vs. liking</a
><span
>). If jhana works the way that Nick and others describe it,
then it&#8217;s an extreme example of this distinction -
almost maximally pleasurable, but with disproportionately
little (zero?) reinforcement value. I don&#8217;t think
normal models of reward have a good explanation here.</span
>
</p>
<p
style="
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font-size: 16px;
line-height: 26px;
margin: 0 0 20px 0;
"
>
<span
>This is one reason I&#8217;m still interested in Qualia
Research Institute ideas like the </span
><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/ac73c028-e089-4809-8722-b3c43ed4f94d?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>Symmetry Theory of Valence</a
><span>, even though there are </span
><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/ffadadd6-8578-4147-afa4-d82f689cc408?r=2d1yw"
rel=""
style="color: #67bdfc; text-decoration: none"
>some strong objections to them</a
><span
>. I interpret QRI as coming at the problem from the
opposite direction as everyone else: normal neuroscience
starts with normal brain behavior and tries to build on it
until they can one day explain crazy things like jhana; QRI
starts with crazy things like jhana and tries to build down
until they can explain ordinary behavior. This is naturally
going to be shakier and harder to research - but somebody
should be trying it.</span
>
</p>
<p
style="
color: #404040;
font-size: 16px;
line-height: 26px;
margin: 0 0 20px 0;
"
>
Discussion questions:
</p>
<ol style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; padding: 0">
<li style="margin: 8px 0 0 32px">
<p
style="
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line-height: 26px;
margin: 0;
margin-bottom: 0;
padding-left: 4px;
"
>
Suppose there were a town where you could eat infinite
amazing food without any weight gain, have amazing sex
with as many attractive people as you wanted, and watch
the greatest shows and symphonies in the world, all for
free. Also you have lots of great friends there who are
always willing to hang out and have fun with you. How far
away (in minutes) would that town need to be from your
house before you went there less than once a week? Once a
month?
</p>
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>
Suppose that you read this post and decide to study
meditation to reach jhana. You study hard for six months,
succeed, and it&#8217;s even better than you imagined -
but it isn&#8217;t reinforcing on a neurological level.
Does this register as negative prediction error in the
reward center? Would it make you less likely to try plans
like &#8220;study meditation&#8221; in the future, because
they &#8220;don&#8217;t pay off&#8221;?
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>
When Nick says that he&#8217;s less interested in casual
sex now, because jhana is an easier way to get pleasure,
what is going on at a neurological level? Is this
nonsense? If some sex addict who says &#8220;it&#8217;s
not even pleasurable anymore, I just feel like it&#8217;s
a compulsion&#8221; learned to access jhana, would this
cure his sex addiction?
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