thirdy/poedrama2.2-20160304.txt

## poedrama2.2-20160304.txt
thirdy 18:15
writing a serious drama on reddit

zocke1r 18:16
uh

Moksu 18:16
:O

thirdy 18:35
drama can be found here :
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/48v7n5/poetrade_live_searches/

Xebtria 18:47
I don't get what the drama is. xyz said something wooo new feature on poe.trade, you said well poe/acquisition combo was bad for the community, we now have different tool that does the same thing, but different, and now people say omg you are so bad to pull people off of poe.trade? O_o

thirdy 19:07
i don't deny that pulling off data from poe.trade is wrong. but poe.trade making money and monopolizing trade data from a free to play Path of Exile is certainly not aaceptable to me.

zocke1r 19:09
i really like the definition of stealing porath has

who knew that by not giving people money you steal money from them

rporath 19:12
not stealing money. stealing cpu time/bandwidth, which indirectly costs money
it's not that complicated
also, i have no problem with any individual deciding to use adblock on any website. however, that's a choice for an individual to make

zocke1r 19:14
well and if that individual decides to use durian it is the same as if he decides to use adblock

rporath 19:14
no it's not, for the reason i outlined in my second post

zocke1r 19:15
is your point encouraging people to block his ads or that people are free to chooseif they use adblocker?

rporath 19:16
my point is that if durian leaves people with no choice but to essentially remove the ads from poe.trade, then anyone who wants to use durian has had that decision made for him

zocke1r 19:16
and yes xyzz action do cost the player something the ability to use any other indexer
they are still free to choose durian
which in this case does nothing else than a adblocki without a whitelist

rporath 19:19
see here http://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/48v7n5/poetrade_live_searches/d0n7r2o
no one else has created an indexer worth using, so the 'monopolization' point is purely intellectual
you don't know what xyz would do if another viable indexer were created

zocke1r 19:20
which is either incorrect, or a self fulfilling prophecy
exile tools is a viable good indexer, just impossible to comepte with poe.trade due to actions xyzz took

rporath 19:21
it's not an indexer it's an api
in order for any user to use it, he has to make his own tools
it's impossible to compete with poe.trade because the vast majority of people are not going to do that

zocke1r 19:22
the thing is even if someone decided to comepte with poe.trade he could not do that
and exiletools offers an indexer aswell

rporath 19:23
where

zocke1r 19:23
http://api.exiletools.com/info/indexer-docs.html
or an example of it getting used http://exiletrade.github.io/#!/

rporath 19:23
exiletrade is in its infancy

zocke1r 19:24
yes becuase it exisits now for not even a week
and before ggg took action to break up xyzz monopoly i was sheer impossible to even create it

rporath 19:24
if it becomes viable, maybe some way to be updated the same as poe.trade will become available. maybe someone can patch acquisition to update both poe.trade and exiletrade

zocke1r 19:24
as no one was able to offer an indexer comaprable to poe.trade

rporath 19:24
as xyz said

zocke1r 19:25
there is an option called acuqisition plus

rporath 19:25
okay, so then what is the problem
(the problem is that people use acquisition, so it would be better for the main branch to be changed in this way)

thirdy 19:28
If i'm not mistakne novvyn (or somebody else) (the author of acquisition plus) submitted a patch to aquisition to make so that it would bump the forum shops but was not denied. TYPO! "was denied"

zocke1r 19:28
yes becuase without the update it generates an unfair advantage for poe.trade
yeah remembered that too just could not find any concerining this claim not even the claim itself

thirdy 19:29
I can't give you the link to this. But I can give you this: xyzz/acquisition#179
*was denied

rporath 19:30
why bump thread instead of notifying other indexers without bumping
that makes no sense

kyri0 19:30
"It's not fair to shit on acquisition imo, why do you expect me to support other websites that no one uses? It's open source anyway, so they could have just contributed a patch to notify a different server in the same way as with poe.trade instead of complaining on reddit."
this is a fucking out lie
as thirdy said, ppl tried pull requests for acquisition, and xyz never accepted them

zocke1r 19:31
becuase if you go indexer by indexer you still create unfair advantages for competitors ina different market

kyri0 19:31
it wasn't novvyn but another guy that wrote the code

rporath 19:31
only if acquisition becomes unsupported

kyri0 19:32
when he was turned down by xyz, he turned to acquisition plus
and was taken in

zocke1r 19:32
what happens only if acqusisition becomes unsupported and unsupported by whom

xyzz 19:33
what's up

thirdy 19:33
@rporath we'd have to make sure that all indexers (some of which we might not know of) are notified. trackpete did not want this solution as this is not the right way to solve this issue. that might've fixed the issue if trackpete agreed to it.

rporath 19:33
bumping a forum thread is not either
ggg needs to provide a better way for this to work

xyzz 19:34
I checked my list of pull requests here https://github.com/xyzz/acquisition/pulls and there's no pull request that does what you claim

zocke1r 19:34
yes but at this point in time bumping the forum is the onyl way to provide the same information to everyone

thirdy 19:34
@xyzz ok nvm that then. how about this issue here: xyzz/acquisition#179

xyzz 19:34
from your link
"I can't, the code wont compile. I don't have a C++ compiler or enough knowledge to be 100% sure how to do the missing code. I need to pass the variable 'hash' to the BumpThread() method, which is missing. It should take about 2 min to code/fix/test to someone that knows C++. All the details are there though!"

thirdy 19:35
@rporath yep they (GGG) just did

xyzz 19:35
that's basically asking me to take this random snippet of non working code and fix it

rporath 19:35
they did, sort of, except it only works if people use public tabs, which are not free
so some people are still not going to use it

xyzz 19:35
this code violates ggg forum rules also (no bumping more often than an hour)
anyway it's all in the past, i just think it would be nice if you stopped shitting on acquisition, thank you

rporath 19:36
it's funny to me how nobody seems to bother trying to actually find out the truth of the situation

thirdy 19:36
ok nvm that code. but bumping the forum every 60 minutes was the goal of that github issue.

xyzz 19:37
ok? still, no one contributed the code...

rporath 19:38
i actually don't understand what ggg is thinking, because public tabs being only for premium tabs precludes the trade forums from ever being deprecated
and the trade forums need to be deprecated
shop threads i mean

thirdy 19:39
@xyzz even if somebody did, would you have made it the default behaviour of aquisition?

zocke1r 19:41
well i just fund the pull request including the shop bumbing yes it would have been in violation of the forum rules but that would have been a fix concerinign one variable changing the value from 300 to 3600

xyzz 19:41
probably not (because most people liked that they don't have to bump their threads), as i said, a better solution would've been adding another notification
where's that pull request?

zocke1r 19:41
xyzz/acquisition#140

xyzz 19:41
lol, are you for real
its just some rando who pressed the wrong buttons and asked me to merge the whole of acq+ into acquisition

zocke1r 19:42
what this includes short bumping which i would assume does what it claims bumps a thread evry 5 minutes
okay

xyzz 19:42
yes so i would have to extract that patch myself, rebase it on top of acquisition, fix all bugs, make it bump once per hour

zocke1r 19:44
well the making it bump once per hour should at most take 1 minute, but im in no position to even eastimate the effort of everything else
just wanted to say that such a pull request exisited, even though it was blaoted with a lot of crap and now the guy who made that pull request works on acqusistion plus

xyzz 19:45
no it's made by a different guy. if it takes 1 minute why didn't you do it?

Herzele 19:45
whatever the reasons were at the time, the combo acquisition/poe.trade locked a good chunck of the market, and was in a monopoly situation. Now with the api, that monopoly will be effectively gone, which is a good thing since monopoly are never a good thing.
we could all move forward rather than trying to rewrite the past ?

xyzz 19:46
yes well considering exiletools just dropped support for forums the instant the new api became available it does not seem like they had a lot of interest

rporath 19:47
all i've seen with regard to this issue is a lot of complaining and no actual trying to do something about it

zocke1r 19:47
well cosndiering you made the forums pointless to search through

xyzz 19:47
anyway, have a good day and please don't shit on acquisition anymore!

zocke1r 19:47
maybe a bit but have a good day

kyri0 19:50
meh, guys, useless discussion

thirdy 19:52
well that was real life drama haha
not always you'd be part of a tech drama

zocke1r 19:53
but xyzz actually lied at one point or Novynn is capable of magic
or perfect identitiy theft

kyri0 19:54
well, the same guys that pushed the pull request for acquisition did it for acquisition plus and was accepted

thirdy 19:54
we gotta save this chat log for poe historians to record

Xebtria 19:54
guys
xyz wrote that here
yes well considering exiletools just dropped support for forums the instant the new api became available it does not seem like they had a lot of interest
that true? you don't support forum shop threads? only the stuff that comes with the API? Or do understand something wrong here

kyri0 19:54
nope
he did drop it, but them got it back again

thirdy 19:54
@Xebtria not sure myself actually. Ohh @kyri0 he did? can you link?

zocke1r 19:55
@kyri0 no the same guy even made the fork of acqusiiton plus means he was never accepted into it but alwas was part of it

kyri0 19:55
you guys remember that we only had a couple searches?
a couple results*

thirdy 19:56
@kyri0 i think you're confusing with something else

kyri0 19:56
what was causing the problem, then?

thirdy 19:56
@kyri0 he (pete) switched to GGG api but was not actually live yet

kyri0 19:57
hmmm
ok, then

zocke1r 19:57
so at this point it is possible to list items using the api?

kyri0 19:57
it is, you already can make public stash tabs

thirdy 19:57
im starving. lol I havent' done any work here at the office except for a critical production I fixed (which I introduced in the first place).

zocke1r 19:58
isnt that the ebst kind of work the work you produce yourself

kyri0 19:58
thing is, the new api's changes nothing on the forums, right?

zocke1r 19:58
no it shouldnt i think

kyri0 19:59
then the previous problem remains

zocke1r 20:00
yeah still means no indexer is capable of competing with poe.trade

Xebtria 20:01
so does exiletools / exiletrade / whoever is "responsible" for this support forum shops + the public stash shops or only one or how does it work? because I think that would be a reason for some people to use one or the other (depending on how it'll work)

kyri0 20:01
and for the excuses he gave here, he won't accept any changes to acquisiotn
	thirdy 18:15
	writing a serious drama on reddit

	zocke1r 18:16
	uh

	Moksu 18:16
	:O

	thirdy 18:35
	drama can be found here :
	https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/48v7n5/poetrade_live_searches/

	Xebtria 18:47
	I don't get what the drama is. xyz said something wooo new feature on poe.trade, you said well poe/acquisition combo was bad for the community, we now have different tool that does the same thing, but different, and now people say omg you are so bad to pull people off of poe.trade? O_o

	thirdy 19:07
	i don't deny that pulling off data from poe.trade is wrong. but poe.trade making money and monopolizing trade data from a free to play Path of Exile is certainly not aaceptable to me.

	zocke1r 19:09
	i really like the definition of stealing porath has

	who knew that by not giving people money you steal money from them

	rporath 19:12
	not stealing money. stealing cpu time/bandwidth, which indirectly costs money
	it's not that complicated
	also, i have no problem with any individual deciding to use adblock on any website. however, that's a choice for an individual to make

	zocke1r 19:14
	well and if that individual decides to use durian it is the same as if he decides to use adblock

	rporath 19:14
	no it's not, for the reason i outlined in my second post

	zocke1r 19:15
	is your point encouraging people to block his ads or that people are free to chooseif they use adblocker?

	rporath 19:16
	my point is that if durian leaves people with no choice but to essentially remove the ads from poe.trade, then anyone who wants to use durian has had that decision made for him

	zocke1r 19:16
	and yes xyzz action do cost the player something the ability to use any other indexer
	they are still free to choose durian
	which in this case does nothing else than a adblocki without a whitelist

	rporath 19:19
	see here http://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/48v7n5/poetrade_live_searches/d0n7r2o
	no one else has created an indexer worth using, so the 'monopolization' point is purely intellectual
	you don't know what xyz would do if another viable indexer were created

	zocke1r 19:20
	which is either incorrect, or a self fulfilling prophecy
	exile tools is a viable good indexer, just impossible to comepte with poe.trade due to actions xyzz took

	rporath 19:21
	it's not an indexer it's an api
	in order for any user to use it, he has to make his own tools
	it's impossible to compete with poe.trade because the vast majority of people are not going to do that

	zocke1r 19:22
	the thing is even if someone decided to comepte with poe.trade he could not do that
	and exiletools offers an indexer aswell

	rporath 19:23
	where

	zocke1r 19:23
	http://api.exiletools.com/info/indexer-docs.html
	or an example of it getting used http://exiletrade.github.io/#!/

	rporath 19:23
	exiletrade is in its infancy

	zocke1r 19:24
	yes becuase it exisits now for not even a week
	and before ggg took action to break up xyzz monopoly i was sheer impossible to even create it

	rporath 19:24
	if it becomes viable, maybe some way to be updated the same as poe.trade will become available. maybe someone can patch acquisition to update both poe.trade and exiletrade

	zocke1r 19:24
	as no one was able to offer an indexer comaprable to poe.trade

	rporath 19:24
	as xyz said

	zocke1r 19:25
	there is an option called acuqisition plus

	rporath 19:25
	okay, so then what is the problem
	(the problem is that people use acquisition, so it would be better for the main branch to be changed in this way)

	thirdy 19:28
	If i'm not mistakne novvyn (or somebody else) (the author of acquisition plus) submitted a patch to aquisition to make so that it would bump the forum shops but was not denied. TYPO! "was denied"

	zocke1r 19:28
	yes becuase without the update it generates an unfair advantage for poe.trade
	yeah remembered that too just could not find any concerining this claim not even the claim itself

	thirdy 19:29
	I can't give you the link to this. But I can give you this: xyzz/acquisition#179
	*was denied

	rporath 19:30
	why bump thread instead of notifying other indexers without bumping
	that makes no sense

	kyri0 19:30
	"It's not fair to shit on acquisition imo, why do you expect me to support other websites that no one uses? It's open source anyway, so they could have just contributed a patch to notify a different server in the same way as with poe.trade instead of complaining on reddit."
	this is a fucking out lie
	as thirdy said, ppl tried pull requests for acquisition, and xyz never accepted them

	zocke1r 19:31
	becuase if you go indexer by indexer you still create unfair advantages for competitors ina different market

	kyri0 19:31
	it wasn't novvyn but another guy that wrote the code

	rporath 19:31
	only if acquisition becomes unsupported

	kyri0 19:32
	when he was turned down by xyz, he turned to acquisition plus
	and was taken in

	zocke1r 19:32
	what happens only if acqusisition becomes unsupported and unsupported by whom

	xyzz 19:33
	what's up

	thirdy 19:33
	@rporath we'd have to make sure that all indexers (some of which we might not know of) are notified. trackpete did not want this solution as this is not the right way to solve this issue. that might've fixed the issue if trackpete agreed to it.

	rporath 19:33
	bumping a forum thread is not either
	ggg needs to provide a better way for this to work

	xyzz 19:34
	I checked my list of pull requests here https://github.com/xyzz/acquisition/pulls and there's no pull request that does what you claim

	zocke1r 19:34
	yes but at this point in time bumping the forum is the onyl way to provide the same information to everyone

	thirdy 19:34
	@xyzz ok nvm that then. how about this issue here: xyzz/acquisition#179

	xyzz 19:34
	from your link
	"I can't, the code wont compile. I don't have a C++ compiler or enough knowledge to be 100% sure how to do the missing code. I need to pass the variable 'hash' to the BumpThread() method, which is missing. It should take about 2 min to code/fix/test to someone that knows C++. All the details are there though!"

	thirdy 19:35
	@rporath yep they (GGG) just did

	xyzz 19:35
	that's basically asking me to take this random snippet of non working code and fix it

	rporath 19:35
	they did, sort of, except it only works if people use public tabs, which are not free
	so some people are still not going to use it

	xyzz 19:35
	this code violates ggg forum rules also (no bumping more often than an hour)
	anyway it's all in the past, i just think it would be nice if you stopped shitting on acquisition, thank you

	rporath 19:36
	it's funny to me how nobody seems to bother trying to actually find out the truth of the situation

	thirdy 19:36
	ok nvm that code. but bumping the forum every 60 minutes was the goal of that github issue.

	xyzz 19:37
	ok? still, no one contributed the code...

	rporath 19:38
	i actually don't understand what ggg is thinking, because public tabs being only for premium tabs precludes the trade forums from ever being deprecated
	and the trade forums need to be deprecated
	shop threads i mean

	thirdy 19:39
	@xyzz even if somebody did, would you have made it the default behaviour of aquisition?

	zocke1r 19:41
	well i just fund the pull request including the shop bumbing yes it would have been in violation of the forum rules but that would have been a fix concerinign one variable changing the value from 300 to 3600

	xyzz 19:41
	probably not (because most people liked that they don't have to bump their threads), as i said, a better solution would've been adding another notification
	where's that pull request?

	zocke1r 19:41
	xyzz/acquisition#140

	xyzz 19:41
	lol, are you for real
	its just some rando who pressed the wrong buttons and asked me to merge the whole of acq+ into acquisition

	zocke1r 19:42
	what this includes short bumping which i would assume does what it claims bumps a thread evry 5 minutes
	okay

	xyzz 19:42
	yes so i would have to extract that patch myself, rebase it on top of acquisition, fix all bugs, make it bump once per hour

	zocke1r 19:44
	well the making it bump once per hour should at most take 1 minute, but im in no position to even eastimate the effort of everything else
	just wanted to say that such a pull request exisited, even though it was blaoted with a lot of crap and now the guy who made that pull request works on acqusistion plus

	xyzz 19:45
	no it's made by a different guy. if it takes 1 minute why didn't you do it?

	Herzele 19:45
	whatever the reasons were at the time, the combo acquisition/poe.trade locked a good chunck of the market, and was in a monopoly situation. Now with the api, that monopoly will be effectively gone, which is a good thing since monopoly are never a good thing.
	we could all move forward rather than trying to rewrite the past ?

	xyzz 19:46
	yes well considering exiletools just dropped support for forums the instant the new api became available it does not seem like they had a lot of interest

	rporath 19:47
	all i've seen with regard to this issue is a lot of complaining and no actual trying to do something about it

	zocke1r 19:47
	well cosndiering you made the forums pointless to search through

	xyzz 19:47
	anyway, have a good day and please don't shit on acquisition anymore!

	zocke1r 19:47
	maybe a bit but have a good day

	kyri0 19:50
	meh, guys, useless discussion

	thirdy 19:52
	well that was real life drama haha
	not always you'd be part of a tech drama

	zocke1r 19:53
	but xyzz actually lied at one point or Novynn is capable of magic
	or perfect identitiy theft

	kyri0 19:54
	well, the same guys that pushed the pull request for acquisition did it for acquisition plus and was accepted

	thirdy 19:54
	we gotta save this chat log for poe historians to record

	Xebtria 19:54
	guys
	xyz wrote that here
	yes well considering exiletools just dropped support for forums the instant the new api became available it does not seem like they had a lot of interest
	that true? you don't support forum shop threads? only the stuff that comes with the API? Or do understand something wrong here

	kyri0 19:54
	nope
	he did drop it, but them got it back again

	thirdy 19:54
	@Xebtria not sure myself actually. Ohh @kyri0 he did? can you link?

	zocke1r 19:55
	@kyri0 no the same guy even made the fork of acqusiiton plus means he was never accepted into it but alwas was part of it

	kyri0 19:55
	you guys remember that we only had a couple searches?
	a couple results*

	thirdy 19:56
	@kyri0 i think you're confusing with something else

	kyri0 19:56
	what was causing the problem, then?

	thirdy 19:56
	@kyri0 he (pete) switched to GGG api but was not actually live yet

	kyri0 19:57
	hmmm
	ok, then

	zocke1r 19:57
	so at this point it is possible to list items using the api?

	kyri0 19:57
	it is, you already can make public stash tabs

	thirdy 19:57
	im starving. lol I havent' done any work here at the office except for a critical production I fixed (which I introduced in the first place).

	zocke1r 19:58
	isnt that the ebst kind of work the work you produce yourself

	kyri0 19:58
	thing is, the new api's changes nothing on the forums, right?

	zocke1r 19:58
	no it shouldnt i think

	kyri0 19:59
	then the previous problem remains

	zocke1r 20:00
	yeah still means no indexer is capable of competing with poe.trade

	Xebtria 20:01
	so does exiletools / exiletrade / whoever is "responsible" for this support forum shops + the public stash shops or only one or how does it work? because I think that would be a reason for some people to use one or the other (depending on how it'll work)

	kyri0 20:01
	and for the excuses he gave here, he won't accept any changes to acquisiotn