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Created May 11, 2022 01:32
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You are correct. This is an older thread, but I'm going to respond to some common stuff people have said here. Before I get into it, I want to lead with this change.org petition, which already has almost 14,000 signatures from other people who also want a standalone browser app on the Switch.

It's a lot of development work that they won't maintain

Actually, the development work is already done. The Switch already internally includes a webkit-based browser, and it is updated frequently. It can be accessed and used to browse other sites using custom DNS settings or through the social media applets. One such DNS server is 45.55.142.122 (Switchbru DNS).

Browsers are a security problem, exploits could be released

While it's true that browsers can be an attack vector, as previously mentioned, the Switch already includes a browser. It also uses the browser internally for the eShop, Hotel login, Social Media sharing, News apps, and in some games. If an exploit were discovered in the browser, it would not matter whether it were a standalone app or not, it already exists. Additionally, Nintendo is able to disable the browser remotely (the "Supernag"), and would do so if an exploit were discovered (This is something they did on the 3DS as well).

Children can visit inappropriate sites

This is all the more reason that Nintendo should implement parental controls and release an official browser app to protect it with. If parental controls are not deemed a solution to this problem, then Nintendo has no business selling Hentai games on the eShop. The parental controls could even go one step further and allow only access to educational or homework sites as well.

Just use your phone or smart TV

This is the argument that I find the most upsetting. Not everyone has access to their phone at all times. Phones can die, be forgotten, or not be affordable in some countries. That last point goes doubly for Smart TVs. Restricting this kind of stuff, when it already exists and works on the console, is inconvenient for a small minority of people. I find it especially ironic that some people considered your post a "first world problem"– Internet access in other parts of the world is not always so easy, but even just being able to get to Wikipedia or Google can provide crucial or time-sensitive educational information.

There is no financial incentive for them to do so

The web itself is actually filled with financial incentives. Even if it's not going to be the reason you buy your console, there could be a whole world of online games and Switch-specific websites that users could visit. Nintendo could work directly with web developers and expose Switch specific APIs (They did this on the Wii, Wii U, DS, and 3DS... actually the Switch's hidden browser already has some undocumented APIs!), and work together with advertisers to make additional money for both web developers and themselves.

It should also be noted that Xbox and Steam Deck provide web browsers on their consoles. PS3 and PS4 did, but PS5 no longer has one that's easily accessible. Sony chose to follow in Nintendo's footsteps in this regard. I believe this allows Nintendo/Sony to exercise more control over their platforms via the eShop/PS Store, and make more people need to buy games through then instead of using seeking comparable website alternatives.

For example, it may be hard to justify purchasing an old retro game if there's a free online or open-source clone found on the first few pages of Google.

The Switch is too weak for a web browser

This is plainly false, although I can see why it's said. It has roughly the specs of a 5 year old tablet, and it behaves like one online. If you browse using the DNS, you can see first hand that it handles a majority of modern websites quite well. Some more complicated websites can produce a (dismissable!) memory error, but these limitations could be addressed and further optimized relatively easily by Nintendo in an standalone browser.

The Switch is a gaming console first and foremost

I won't deny this fact. It does also, however, also provides YouTube, social media services, emulators (via NSO) and gaming news. I believe Nintendo's reasoning is more about making sure that legally speaking, the Switch remains seen as separate from a phone or PC, which allows them to have tighter control over their platform.

I don't doubt that varying degrees of some of the above reasons are false either. I am still hopeful that one day in the future, we will see a Switch browser. But we're going to need a lot more people that care about it, instead of how many of the replies here are treating the issue.

At the start of the post I linked a petition, if you made it to the bottom of the post, here's an update to the petition that was made in April 2022, which contains similar content to my post here. I think that 1. informing more people and 2. letting Nintendo know that there are a sizable chunk of interested users increases the chances of an official one being released.

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vgmoose commented May 11, 2022

My response to moderation:

Hey Mod Name, sorry about this. Could I understand more which parts of the post are considered in violation of this rule, and edit them to preserve most of its content?

The browser being accessible through custom DNS settings should not be considered an exploit (it isn't one, firstly). It is covered by many reputable online sites and is built into the Switch settings. Nintendo's own help page contains specific info on how to use a custom DNS (as a supported feature), and using DNS to display a browser in this manner has been working since the Switch's release March 2017 with no additional cat-and-mouse style homebrew shenanigans.

Like other Internet-enabled devices, if the DNS settings are configured to invoke a Captive Portal, a web browser is displayed. This is not an exploit or unexpected usage of the Switch's capabilities. The browser appearing in response to the network settings like this, and is intended to do such by Nintendo.

I do wish I saw my post was deleted before I went around responding to other comments. I found most people overwhelmingly negative and spreading false information about the Switch, and it's going to be hard to gain further traction on the petition addressing the issue in the topic if the included web browser itself cannot be discussed here.

However, even in that scenario, although it isn't a browser exploit, if removing specific references on how to access it allows the bulk of my post to remain, I am still interested in doing so, if possible. Thank you.

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vgmoose commented May 11, 2022

I made a more detailed and formal version of my previous comment, this time submitted as modmail, at the suggestion of the mod that I was in contact with:

Hi mod team, I'm reaching out to better understand which parts of my comment are considered in violation of this rule, and would like to make edits (even if that includes removing the custom DNS info / petition) to preserve most of its factual content, and have it restored, if possible.

For context, I'm one of the people that maintains the Switchbru DNS (45.55.142.122), which allows access to an included and mostly-functional web browser on the Switch. The service has been working since the Switch's release in March 2017, with no cat-and-mouse style homebrew shenanigans during system updates, and has tens of thousands of monthly users by this point. It is just a regular (unmodified) DNS server, like that of Google DNS (8.8.8.8), Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1, or OpenDNS.

I am aware that "Switchbru" has roots in the homebrew scene. Its name has never been associated with piracy, however, and I'm actively working on trying to remove the connotation between the DNS and homebrew. A few months ago, I launched new custom DNS servers (45.55.112.11 and 46.101.65.164) under the name "BrowseDNS", and set up a new standalone website that focuses on facilitating Internet access, without having ties to homebrew: https://browsedns.net/topic/8/browsedns-enable-access-to-the-open-internet

It is my hope that by spreading awareness about the browser, and continuing to gain support via the petition, that Nintendo will one day provide users with a more legitimate browser that doesn't need any special networking configuration to access. Personally, I am a web developer in my day job, and something that contributed to my current knowledge was experimenting with the Wii and DS browsers. This was around 2007, and the Nintendo NSider forums had official spaces where Wii/DS specific sites could be shared and discussed. This background is just to say, I still have a soft spot for web browsers on consoles, despite recognizing that for most people it's not really a significant concern.

The browser being accessible through custom DNS settings should not be considered an exploit. It is covered by many reputable online sites and is built into the Switch settings. Nintendo's own help pages contain specific info on how to use a custom DNS (as a supported feature). For more technical info on how the browser is displayed, the DNS settings are configured to invoke a Captive Portal, and then, like on other Internet-enabled devices, a web browser is displayed. The browser appearing in response to the network settings like this is by design, and is specifically for use cases such as allowing the user to login at hotel, university or airplane wifi hotspots.

However, I do understand and readily admit that accessing the captive portal browser in this manner (with the goal of browsing the rest of the Internet) is a subversion of Nintendo's intended use cases for their console. I don't think that's enough to consider it an exploit (for example, you can also access a web browser by clicking around from within the Share menu, without using any DNS settings, to browse all of Twitter/Facebook– another subversion of intended use), but I can still see why openly discussing and directly informing people how to utilize it could still not be desired for the rules of this subreddit. I'm not pushing for a total exception to this rule, but am interested in working within these rules to still be able to respond to some common critiques of the idea of a standalone browser app on the Switch, on the occasions when it does come up.

A large number of the comments in that thread contain false information about the Switch (its technology, its browser, its capabilities), and it's going to be hard to gain further traction on support for getting a future standalone web browser (and addressing the topic) if references to the fact that the system includes a web browser itself cannot be discussed in any capacity here.

Thank you for your time and consideration. Ideally, even in the scenario where I can't refer to the DNS due to the intent of the subreddit rules, a version of my comment can be restored that preserves its main intentions. Although the thread is over a month old, it's still important as it appears in Google searches related to the absence of a web browser app on the Switch, and the more accurate information on the topic, the better.

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vgmoose commented May 12, 2022

Another followup, from me:

I edited my main comment and made these revisions: https://i.imgur.com/mpfg95G.png

All references to the petition, custom DNS, or other exploit-adjacent / non-intended use stuff was removed.

I also made changes to my other replies (which... I didn't realize had also been hidden): 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

All revisions to those comments: https://i.imgur.com/H43YPni.png

(1 & 7 are unedited (already no references) and aren't in the above image, 4 is removed)

I'm hoping to get these comments made visible still– there are so many negative anti-browser-on-Switch replies, and hardly anything on the other side of the argument.

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