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Created February 25, 2012 09:14
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~/Code/ember.js ‹ruby-1.9.3› ‹master*› $ bundle && echo "fuck you giles"
Using rake (
Using confparser (
Using multi_json (1.0.4)
Using execjs (1.2.13)
Using libxml-ruby (2.2.2)
Using faster_xml_simple (0.5.0)
Using httpclient (2.2.4)
Using json (1.6.5)
Using nokogiri (1.5.0)
Using net-github-upload (0.0.8)
Using github-upload (0.0.2)
Using rack (1.4.1)
Using thor (0.14.6)
Using rake-pipeline (0.6.0) from (at master)
Using rake-pipeline-web-filters (0.6.0) from (at master)
Using sproutcore (0.0.1) from (at master)
Using uglifier (1.0.4)
Using bundler (1.1.rc.7)
Your bundle is complete! Use `bundle show [gemname]` to see where a bundled gem is installed.
fuck you giles
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First, I think you mean an argument that Rails has lost its way. Second, a one-line .rvmrc does not solve the fact that source :rubygems is not a default. Third, if your solution to a project not respecting convention over configuration is a configuration option, you are not even paying attention to the question. Fourth, how on earth does your non-solution to my convention over configuration issue change the fact that Rails has not kept pace with HTML5 the way it did with Ajax? What does it have to do with being an ActiveRecordClassFactory in denial? How does it affect my concerns about the fact that nobody but DHH uses Rails's testing "convention"? What on earth does this conversation possibly have to do with the tweets I posted from a long-time Rails vet pointing out that Rails apps require a lot more work to get up and running than they did back in the version 0.6 days?

We're not talking about a problem that's literally or even figuratively solved by one-line .rvmrc fix. The fact that you think it does means you didn't even get the point of the discussion. Likewise, the problem you imagine to be solved in this manner is not the core argument of my post.

And as for a giant "fuck you," you're dreaming. I'm not Zed Shaw. I didn't say I was going to put on my combat boots and kick Michael Koziarski's ass. I said Rails 3 was not a step forward the way Rails 2 was, and that developing in Node.js is more fun right now. Saying somebody made a mistake does not equate to a giant "fuck you." Get over it.

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@gilesbowkett I know this thread is inactive by two months, but I have some considerations to do.

I'm not a huge programmer. I had two years of experience with Rails 2.3.X (and did a lot of things out of the Rails way). But right now I'm starting a new project with Rails 3.2, and I loved it.

I don't know if I understand the whole bundle exec problem. I'm not even using RVM, I'm using rbenv, and I don't have a problem about it, I just installed the rbenv-bundler plugin.

About the source :rubygems, Rails generated a valid Gemfile from the start. So what?

I see the problems you are talking about. But I think they are really minor. The main progress on Rails 3, for me, was UJS. I think you remember how ugly and clumsy RJS was, and how difficult it was to think about a software using it. And most people didn't even got it! There were books teaching render :update inside the controller. It was awful! I always ended up using plain Javascript, because of it.

Also, it is a lot easier to use bundler then it was to use... I don't know, how did you include libraries? I had a hard time with ruby-rdf, at that time, and I doubt I'd have on Rails 3.2.

So, I think everybody that says "Rails 3.X was not an improvement!" is missing completely the point. The basic configuration that comes with rails new is sufficient for most basic projects, and if it's missing some module, just add it to the Gemfile.

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I'll look into rbenv-bundler as a solution.

I said several times that Bundler is incredibly useful, and I definitely never said Rails 3 was not an improvement at all. I agree that many of the issues I raised are not of earth-shattering importance. In fact I don't believe I ever asserted otherwise. People got furious beyond words about a blog post in which I devoted at least one paragraph, maybe more, to discussing my own balls. I never thought I would have to say this, but I really think that nobody ever needs to take my balls more seriously than I do.

I actually enjoyed RJS but I avoided it for serious work of course. UJS is def better.

Your point about Rails generating the Gemfile, though, I can't agree with that. First, your solution only works when using Bundler with Rails. Second, to even be having an argument about whether or not source :rubygems should be the default when everybody knows for a fact it's the 90% use case is just an unmistakable and incontrovertible sign of severe dysfunction within the Rails community. It's just a ridiculous conversation to be having in the first place.

Q: Should the 90% use case be the default?
A: No.

And let's face it, 90% is generous. It's probably the 99% use case or more.

I even asked one of the Bundler guys on Hacker News if I could re-open an issue about making it the default, and never got a response.

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For what it's worth, if you interpret DRY as some holy quest to never type the same thing twice, you're going to have a bad time.

DRY is about not having the same behavior in multiple places. It's about segregating concerns of a system into separate parts, not saving keystrokes. Those are just helpful, and a byproduct of actually being DRY. Pushing that is like pushing code to test ratios, they're nifty and sometimes good, but they're a byproduct of good testing. Anything more is merely mental masturbation.

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