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A criticism of Stochastic Parrots

A criticism of "On the Dangers of Stochastic Parrots: Can Languae Models be Too Big"

Yoav Goldberg, Jan 23, 2021.

The FAccT paper "On the Dangers of Stochastic Parrots: Can Languae Models be Too Big" by Bender, Gebru, McMillan-Major and Shmitchell has been the center of a controversary recently. The final version is now out, and, owing a lot to this controversary, would undoubtly become very widely read. I read an earlier draft of the paper, and I think that the new and updated final version is much improved in many ways: kudos for the authors for this upgrade. I also agree with and endorse most of the content. This is important stuff, you should read it.

However, I do find some aspects of the paper (and the resulting discourse around it and around technology) to be problematic. These weren't clear to me when initially reading the first draft several months ago, but they became very clear to me now. These points are for the most part not major disagreements with the content, but they also go in some ways against the very core premise of the paper. I think they are also important voices in the debate. This short piece is an attempt to concisely list them.

The criticism has two parts:

  1. The paper is attacking the wrong target.
  2. The paper takes one-sided political views, without presenting it as such and without presenting the alternative views.

Let's handle them in turn. We'll start with the first one.

Attacking the wrong target:

The argument as a one-liner: The real criticism is not about model size, its about any language model. Framing it about size is harmful.

The paper's title asks a direct question: "can language models be too big?" This question directly connects the dangers and concerns with the size of the language models. This is already manifested in numerous online discussions and various popular media pieces attacking the dangers in large language models, calling for regulating the size of language models, to stop big tech companies from monopolizing large language models, etc, etc.

But the paper doesn't really deal with the dangers of large language models at all. The title question "can language models be too big?" is not answered. And for a good reason: it is the wrong question to ask. Size has nothing to do with it. Indeed, not a single criticism or concern in the paper is actually about model size. Yet, the framing is that of size, and I think this is harmful and dangerous, as I will explain below. The harm is already done: the media and the public took to a size-centric debate, and equate dangers with size. I am afraid this trend will be hard to reverse. This is an attempt to try do so.

Why it isn't about model size?

The paper raises three main lines of concern:

  • Environmental cost of training large models
  • Unfathomable training data
  • Models acting as stochastic parrots that repeat and manifest issues in the data.

Note that neither of these are actually about model size per-se. The first is about computational efficiency. The second and third are intertwined, but the core issues they raise are training data quality (which relates to some extent to training data size), and output quality. There is also an underlying issue of lack of transparency and lack of interpretabilty.

All of these concerns hold just as well also for small and efficient language models. Size is just irrelevant.

Smaller models can still be inefficient and have a high environmental cost. Especially if the smaller models will not be as effective as the larger ones, so they cannot offset the cost. More importantly, model size is not directly linked to computation efficiency. Already in the list of models in the paper, some of the larger models (in terms of parameter count) are also more computationally efficient (specifically the switch transformer). On the other side, some models use heavy parameter sharing across layers, which reduces the parameter count, while still remaining high on computational inefficiency and carbon costs. Or a model can be just be small and inefficient. There is really no good way, and no good reason, to equate size with efficiency. The question that should be asked here then is not "can LMs be too big?" but "can LMs be too environmentally costly?". These are different questions. While the harm in asking the wrong question in this case is not that big, it still exists. It may detract from looking into architectures that are both big and efficient (like the switch transfromer, or based on specialized hardware), and it may cause more waste by shifting focus in smaller models that will resort to other forms of expensive computation (training and inference with algorithms that are polynomial in number of parameters rather than linear?), or just will be more costly in aggregate.

Turning to the other issues, here focusing on the size argument really becomes dangerous and harmful: the described concerns are for the most part valid and important, but they are just as valid to smaller models as they are to larger ones. We can feed unfathomable (or just plain bad) training data also to a smaller model. Smaller models are also stochastic parrots. Smaller models are also not interpretable. And the harms remain. A smaller model can still exhibit the same undesired behaviors, it can still be racist, sexist, biased, status-quo-amplifier, etc, etc. And it is just as uninterprable as the larger ones. The described dangers and concerns are dangers and concerns of language models, not specifically of large language models, and they do not grow or shrink with size. By framing the issue around size, people may conclude that small models are fine, or somehow less dangerous w.r.t to the concerns raised in the paper. This is totally wrong. People should be just as responsible when using smaller LMs, as they are when using large ones.

[Update, Jan 24, 2021 --- added the following 2 paragraph] Gebru, on social media, stated that they consider "data size" to be part of "model size" as well, and that they say so in the paper. I didn't read it this way, and it sounds odd to me to say "can models be too big" when you mean "can training data size be too big". But even under this interpreation, the paper does not say why large training size is bad, and it certainly doesn't say why training data can be "too big". The argument the paper does make is that data size is not enough to ensure properties such diversity, quality, etc. I agree with this, and I agree that such properties should be looked at. All of section 4 in the paper is an important read. But the argument it makes is "size is not enough" not that "size is bad and can be too big". Maybe large amounts of high-quality data will be hard to collect. Fine, so its a challenge. Still, there is currently no reason to believe that if we manage to collect large amounts of high-quality data, it will be a-priori worse than using small amounts of high-quality data. Size is not the issue. Quality is, and focusing on size is a distraction.

(Side notes: it may very well be that we will realize that after some data size, model quality may deteriorate. It has observed before. But this is an empirical question that should be verified. It does not mean that large data is a priori bad. Similarly, authors like Tal Linzen argue that people learn from much smaller data samples than models, and hence researching models that use less data is worthwhile. Again, full agreement here, but this is unrelated to the potential dangers of language models.)

One sided political view

The argument as a one-liner: The authors suggest that good (= not dangerous) language models are language models which reflect the world as they think the world should be. This is a political argument, which packs within it an even larger political argument. However, an alternative view by which language models should reflect language as it is being used in a training corpus is at least as valid, and should be acknowledged.

The paper takes several assumptions as given, without stating them as assumptions, and without considering the alternatives. This is mostly centered in section 6.2 (Risks and Harms) though it is also manifested in other parts of the paper. A similar critic has been expressed by Michael Lissack. My arguments here are somewhat different than his. Lissack also goes into much greater depth in several aspects which I don't touch (and some that I don't fully agree with).

I will focus on section 6.2 (Risks and Harms). This section states several potential harms, and in doing so states how the authors think a language model should behave, and, more broadly, how a machine-learning system should model the world. The view expressed in this section are opinions, and very one sided at that. However, the fact that they are merely opinions, or that there is a valid debate to be had around them, is never acknowledged or even hinted at. While I agree with many of the opinions, I also disagree with some. And regardless of my personal opinion, I think there is a important debate that should be made explicit. I will focus on the major issue I see.

A major question to be asked is "do we want our models to reflect the data as it is, or the world as we believe it should be". The authors take a very conclusive stance here for the second, but the first option is also valid, and must at least be considered. This is to a large extent a political question, and it becomes even more political when taking the "world as we believe it should be" stance that the authors take: different groups believe in different things. The paper reflects a set of beliefs that is very much north-american and left-leaning.

If we take language models as models of human language, do we want the model to be aware of slurs? The paper very clearly argues that "no it definitely should not". But one could easily argue that, yes, we certainly do want the model to be aware of slurs. Slurs are part of language. If we don't want the model to generate slurs, this is a valid request in some use-cases. But restricting them outright? this could be undesired. As an simple example, consider a model that does not know any slur or profanity words. Such words are not in the model's vocabulary, and it never saw slurs or profanities in its training. Not only this model is now not modeling human language (because language does have slurs and profanities), it will also not be able to recognize unwanted behaviors when encountering them. If we want to classify text for toxicity, such a model will let very toxic texts pass, because it will not recognize them as such. This also ties into debates about censorship, use-vs-mention, the validity of having "taboo words", etc.

Similarly for other linguistic forms that authors list as undesirable such as microagressions, dog-whistles, or subtle patterns such as refering to "woman doctors" or "both genders". Again, if we want our models to actually model human language use, we want these patterns in the model. If we use language models to, for example, compare bodies of texts from different sources, or to study societies based on the texts they left behind (as many digithal humanities scholars are now doing) we do want to have these encoded in the model. If we study political discourse, we want these things in the model. And so on and so on. Even if we just want a stochastic parrot that generates fanfiction or stories in some genre, we want to accurately reflect this genre. Literature has profanities, slurs and microagressions even if just as literary devices. If Charles Bukowski can write mysoginist stories, why can't a model write such stories? If Salinger can use the word "fuck" in a story, why can't a model? If the Wu-Tang Clan can use the n-word in their rap lyrics, why can't a model? Yes, there are places when this behavior is inappropriate. Maybe even most ocassions. But it is far from clear to me that the solution should be in the language model itself, rather than in the larger application. And it is even less clear that the solution should be all-encompassing, and not on a case-by-case basis.

These are just two examples, but there are many good reasons to argue that a model of language use should reflect how the language is actually being used. I find this view to be highly non-controversial. However, this is part of a much larger debate that I cannot do justice in this short piece. My point is that this debate is valid, it must take place, and it should have been acknowledged in the paper. In the least, we should acknowledge the option that there could be two kinds of LMs, and that both are valid, maybe depending on the final use-case or ocassion. The paper does not acknowldege that. This is unscientific and, in my opinion, also harmful. (And all of this without even touching the issue of "who gets to decide what are the slurs, microagressions and behaviors that should be avoided" which is a huge political issue on its own, and on which the authors take a very opinionated stand).

[Update, Jan 24, 2021 --- added the following text]

Based on some conversations on twitter with Gebru and others, I would like to clarify the following point: I read section 6.2 of the paper as prescribing how a language model should behave. That is, I read it as advocating for language models that, among other things:

  • do not replicate the hegemonic world view they pick up from their training data.
  • do not produce slurs or other forms of language that may seem derogatory, even if present in their training data.
  • do not produce utterances that are picked up from the training data which can be perceived as microagressions, abusive language, biased language, etc.
  • in particular, do not produce patterns such as the phrases "both genders" or "woman doctors" in the same frequency as these appear in the data.
  • and so on.

Another possible reading of section 6.2 is that it merely lists these as potential things a careful user should be aware of, and aware of their impilcations, and then decide whether they want to include them in their language model or not. That is, as merely advice, not a perscription. Some language models CAN produce such behavior and be considered good. This reading was not natural to me, but if this is your reading of section 6.2 and the rest of the paper, then great. It means that you probably also agree with all you read so far by me in this section, sans the "one-sidedness" remark, and can easily reconcile it with the world-view presented in the paper. That's great.

[end update]

Criticisms of this text

A growing list of criticims to this piece raised on twitter, for most of them including my responses in the twitter thread. If you want me to link to a specific tweet (or any other URL of you choosing) which is not listed yet, either ask me to, or create a PR.

https://twitter.com/ZeerakW/status/1353253826447486976?s=20

https://twitter.com/nsaphra/status/1353394756156592130?s=21

@omrihar

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@omrihar omrihar commented Jan 23, 2021

Thank you for this thoughtful review of the paper! I haven't heard about it before (I'm not from the NLP/NLU community) but this sounds very interesting and important for anyone in the larger ML/DS space.

Cheers,
Omri

@DeNeutoy

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@DeNeutoy DeNeutoy commented Jan 25, 2021

Hello Yoav!

I found the paper to be quite an interesting read. I also think I have some semi-rebuttals to your analysis and/or scenarios for you to consider which you might find interesting. I'd be interested to understand how you square these with your feedback on the paper.

Attacking the wrong target

I broadly disagree with this statement:

Size has nothing to do with it. Indeed, not a single criticism or concern in the paper is actually about model size.

I think I do agree with you on the environmental point. So this comment does not address this at all.

I think my comment broadly revolves around the idea of model architectures and model size. Naturally, there are some models which are more interpretable (for a given range of definitions of that word, e.g faithfulness), such as linear models. But equally, I could design a linear model which had 1 billion parameters, trained on a classification task with L2 regularization that would be extremely difficult to interpret via any standard method for linear model interpretability due to its size. So in the case that we care deeply about classes of model interpretability, there are still ways to scale models in less complex classes in terms of the size of their parameters which make them more difficult to interpret. For this reason I do not completely buy your argument that scale is not relevant.

Secondly, would you stand by your statement that smaller models are harder to interpret when taken to an extreme? As you suggest here:

We can feed unfathomable (or just plain bad) training data also to a smaller model. Smaller models are also stochastic parrots. Smaller models are also not interpretable.

suppose there existed a 100 parameter lanaguage model that could generate the same level of output quality as GPT-3. Do you believe that in this scenario users (and by users here I probably mean NLP practitioners) would not understand how it works? E.g there are methods available in certain size regimes, such as brute force search, which would allow (in my opinion) a much higher degree of interpretability.

So in these two examples, I believe that model size is a valid direction of analysis, even in the case that a model may be considered to be classically interpretable.

Finally, from a practical perspective, the larger models are, the harder they are to interpret - you need multiple GPUs to run many of the larger models, and TPUs to train them. I guess that this is also likely to drive research into smaller versions of them, but it also disuades research into interpretability/biases relative to other models, given their enormous size. Of course, there are other things that discourage this too, such as models not being released etc.

One Sided Political view

I agree with the analysis that the paper describes what "can" happen in such language models, rather than the prescriptive reading. In particular, I found that section 6.2 explicitly describes several conditions for the commentary which follows, e.g

If such an LM produces text that is put into the world for people to interpret (flagged as produced by an ‘AI’ or otherwise), what risks follow?

If the LM outputs overtly abusive language....

The harms that could follow from these risks are again similar to those identified above for more subtly biased language

If the LM or word embeddings derived from it are used as components in a text classification system

In my opinion, all of these points are a-political, given that they do not consider the content of what the model may be societally biased toward.

Additionally, I wonder about this sentence:

a model of language use should reflect how the language is actually being used.

I broadly agree with you! But this is not the question that your rebuttal needs to address, which is actually: does a language model trained on un-altered/cleaned web text represent such a model of language use? For example, it is extremely unclear to me that any large generative language model should not suffer from the problems with bias amplification described in Men Also Like Shopping:
Reducing Gender Bias Amplification using Corpus-level Constraints
. For this reason, I find your anecdotes describing literary works using offensive language unconvincing. Perhaps a model can use offensive language like this, but currently we have no clear way of asserting that it is not doing so with a non-distributional level of frequency with respect to its training corpus. Edit: I subsequently saw that you corrected this on twitter, but it is not clear from the text as presented.

Also, I am convinced by Emily Bender's comment on twitter, that web text certainly does not represent a natural distribution of language use, and is to me, a much clearer source of statistical bias in the various training corpora than cleaning/removal of bad language. But your commentary does not really address this either.

Anyway, thanks for the read - it was a thought provoking accompaniment to the paper, which made me think more about the points it made - even if I did end up disagreeing with you on several parts of it. Also, perhaps consider that people who haven't met you in real life may not know the "Yoav Goldberg tone". I distinctly remember the vitriol you directed at the authors of that GAN language generation paper at NeurIPS and found it extremely distasteful when I didn't know you, whereas after having met you in person I could imagine how you intended it to be received! What i'm trying to say is - your points could have been delivered better, with a little more grace, and a little less sark. But I know that may be too much to ask 😅 .

Mark

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@deving09 deving09 commented Jan 26, 2021

A brief note for readers. The arguments presented in the One sided political view section of this article are not actually expressed in the paper: "On the Dangers of Stochastic Parrots: Can Language Models be Too Big".

While they are interesting musings and an area of possible discussion around dataset curation and what tradeoffs could be made within. The authors don't make the suggestions which Yoav argues against. In fact, previous works by these same authors detail a lot of the same objections that Yoav presents to his own "assumed fixes". https://arxiv.org/pdf/1912.10389.pdf

I'm of the general viewpoint that critiques should be grounded in the arguments presented in the text versus the speculative imagination of the reader and as such have pushed back publicly around Yoav's mischaracterization of the article. We can focus discussions around points raised in the future!

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@jvasilakes jvasilakes commented Feb 10, 2021

This is in response to your second point, that the authors provide a "one-sided" political view without acknowledging it as such. Specifically, your statement,

The paper takes several assumptions as given, without stating them as assumptions, and without considering the alternatives.

Whether you intended it to be or not, this is a diversion tactic that is commonly used when arguing against minority viewpoints. What it essentially says is that the authors of such viewpoints ought to brand their viewpoints as non-dominant, i.e. not part of the prevailing scientific consensus, which implies that they are less trustworthy (or more deserving of scrutiny). This serves to relegate such viewpoints to the sidelines and further reinforce the what the authors call the "hegemonic worldview". It fundamentally claims that minority viewpoints ought to defer to more dominant viewpoints simply because the latter are more powerful.

You criticize the authors for not stating their assumptions but, as the authors discuss, much of LM research these days is planned, carried out, and published under the dominant and unstated assumption that "bigger is better". Such studies are never criticized for being one-sided or for failing to acknowledge other viewpoints, and for good reason: such a criticism is unrelated to the arguments being made and therefore has no bearing on their trustworthiness.

tl;dr The arguments made in "On the Dangers of Stochastic Parrots: Can Language Models be Too Big" are not at all weakened by not acknowledging the dominant viewpoint that, when it comes to LMs, bigger is better. Such a criticism is orthogonal to the authors' arguments and only serves to divert readers' judgments of trustworthiness from the arguments themselves to the power structures within which the arguments are made.

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@MadamePratolungo MadamePratolungo commented Mar 25, 2021

From Yoav Goldberg's response: "A major question to be asked is "do we want our models to reflect the data as it is, or the world as we believe it should be". The authors take a very conclusive stance here for the second, but the first option is also valid, and must at least be considered. This is to a large extent a political question, and it becomes even more political when taking the "world as we believe it should be" stance that the authors take: different groups believe in different things. The paper reflects a set of beliefs that is very much north-american and left-leaning."

With all due respect to Yoav Goldberg, an accomplished and thoughtful computer scientist, the above paragraph reflects a set of beliefs that is very much that of a privileged white man who is not in the habit of writing about politics. Or, to put the point more accurately, it is that of a privileged white man who believes that what the world is is simply what he understands it to be--based on his own observations and experience--and that any less familiar view must be partial and "political" in some way (perhaps North American and left-leaning). To be sure, the distinction between "the world as it is" and "the world as it ought to be" introduces a minimal awareness of philosophical argument. But it introduces it only to dismiss the validity of any normative view (what ought to be) as distinct from a heavy presumption in favor of "what is" in which, moreover, "what is" implicitly is defined as "what I (very neutrally and apolitically) assume it to be." By this logic, if there is too much gun violence in the United States (a claim about "what is") and I argue that it doesn't have to be that way and shouldn't (what ought to be), I can be dismissed as a North American lefty by anyone who doesn't want to think seriously about what can be done to limit gun violence. My view, after all, is a particular political stance and "different groups believe in different things"--so the evidence can't possibly speak in favor of my argument for less violence; gun violence just is what is is.

Even more problematic, however, given its importance to Goldberg's own research, is the faulty assumption that the largest datasets accurately represent what is; that, in other words, such data offers an empirical account of the totality of language as we know it. Of course, Goldberg never makes this assumption explicit (and undoubtledly would not wish to prove it). But his implicit assumption is obvious. For example, notice the slippage between data and world in the following sentence: "A major question to be asked is "do we want our models to reflect the data as it is, or the world as we believe it should be". Observe how "the DATA AS IT IS" (which in the Gebru et al. paper is something like the scrapable internet as it is) is contrasted to "THE WORLD AS WE BELIEVE IT SHOULD BE." Here the scrapable internet and the people and language that this data best represents get to stand for the "world as it is"; and get to stand in opposition to the world as "we believe it should be." The scrapable internet thus becomes a neutral signifier of empirical reality: everything else is just some group's pipedream or axe to grind. (And that group is surely not Goldberg's.)

Yet, whatever one's view of the paper in question, Gebru et al. quite clearly establish that THE DATA as it is (the scrapable internet) does not represent THE WORLD as it is. But this point, which Goldberg does not contest, seems to have been lost entirely in the haste to paint the paper's authors as activists rather than scientists.

Interestingly, Goldberg's summary of the paper accurately points to the "unfathombability" of training data as a chief feature of the argument against so-called stochastic parrots. But Goldberg never returns to the question of unfathomability. To the contrary, via slippages in logic like that illustrated above, he turns unfathomble training data into authoritative, legible, and transparent data (the "world as it is").

I think Goldberg is actually conflating several questions, but here are two key ones: First, given that there is a lot of biased language on the Internet, a great deal of which represents the prejudices of the most vocal people or texts, how can we design models and/or curate data sets to account for these asymmetries, exclusions, and idiosyncrasies? Second, since models use this data for diverse purposes that have material impact on all kinds of people in all sorts of situations what can be done--or rather, what must be done in the interest of fairness--to assure that those who are under-represented in or misrepresented by these unfathomable data sets do not become victims of what purports to be objective assessment.

I must say that Goldberg's response to the paper is quite telling. Here we have a knowledgeable and thoughtful scientist who begins with the premise that the paper he has read is "important stuff" only, in the end, to reject its central premise on the question of ethics. I'm willing to bet that if we asked Yoav Goldberg whether he believes that the scrapable internet is an objective and inclusive proxy for knowledge of the world in its totality, he would say, "No of course not." And yet his response, whether he realizes it or not, sets that problem aside by invoking an insupportable distinction between the alleged neutrality of data and the alleged politicization of any argument that unmasks that illusion of neutrality.

If Goldberg's performance is an indication, the field has a long way to go before it can even begin to discuss, much less to address, the serious problems that beset it.

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@yoavg yoavg commented Apr 8, 2021

@MadamePratolungo

Thanks for your comment. It highlights a misunderstanding of my text which I think many people may share, so let me clarify.

When I talk about "the data as is or the world as it ought to be", I use the words "data" and "world" purposefully. This is not a slip.
To be clear: what I mean by "to reflect the data as is" is literally, to reflect the data as it is. I did not say or meant to say, in any place, that the data, as large as it might be, is reflective of the world. No, the data is reflective of the data. In other words: "the text of reddit is reflective of how people use language on reddit". And now the question is: do we want our language model (which happens to be trained on reddit) to reflect the language use of people on reddit, or do we want our language model to reflect how we think people should be speaking (on reddit or elsewhere)? I would argue that there are many cases where we do want to just represent the text as is (including its biases).

Pratolungo writes:

First, given that there is a lot of biased language on the Internet, a great deal of which represents the prejudices of the most vocal people or texts, how can we design models and/or curate data sets to account for these asymmetries, exclusions, and idiosyncrasies?

This has the assumption that a model which represents the prejudices of the most vocal people or texts is a-priori bad and should be "fixed". I disagree with that, and I think that this is really use-case dependent. Sure, there are (many) applications where you need to be careful to not hurt the minority groups. But it does not mean that language-models that are trained on "hegemonic views" are a-priori bad.

For example, my understanding from talking to historian and sociologists, is that it would be very interesting to them to train a language model on some text and retain all the biases in that text.

She then writes:

Second, since models use this data for diverse purposes that have material impact on all kinds of people in all sorts of situations what can be done--or rather, what must be done in the interest of fairness--to assure that those who are under-represented in or misrepresented by these unfathomable data sets do not become victims of what purports to be objective assessment.

I agree that we may wish to encourage or enforce notions of fairness in some situations. I am not convinced this should be done at the LM level. There are many other potential places where we can perform such an intervention.

Now, an important question is: does a language-model trained on corpus X indeed accurately reflects the language use in corpus X? Today the question is "probably not" (it likely over-represent common events and under-represent rare ones, and see also works on "bias amplification" of language models). LMs do not accurately represent their training data. This is indeed an issue with current LMs that should be fixed.

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@MadamePratolungo MadamePratolungo commented Apr 17, 2021

Thank you, for your reply. A few quotations from you followed by further response from me.

In the effort to clarify your own intended meaning, you wrote

[T]he data is reflective of the data. In other words: "the text of reddit is reflective of how people use language on reddit". And now the question is: do we want our language model (which happens to be trained on reddit) to reflect the language use of people on reddit, or do we want our language model to reflect how we think people should be speaking (on reddit or elsewhere)? I would argue that there are many cases where we do want to just represent the text as is (including its biases).

I don't think anybody, including Bender, Gebru et al. would disagree that there are cases in which biases are at least part of what interests us. If I am an anthropologist of Reddit, or perhaps a lazy screenwriter looking for generated text that might pass for typical Reddit dialogue, I want a model of Reddit language usage that is as representative as possible--bias and all.

However, as you continue from this argument about a particular case to a general position, your reasoning becomes muddy and your tendency to conflate data and world recurs. You claim that I assume "that a model which represents the prejudices of the most vocal people or texts is a-priori bad and should be 'fixed'." I pause to note that I never said anything about "fixing" in the way you imply but let's leave that aside for the moment. You continue: "I disagree with that, and I think that this is really use-case dependent. Sure, there are (many) applications where you need to be careful to not hurt the minority groups. But it does not mean that language-models that are trained on 'hegemonic views' are a-priori bad."

You then go on to say that LMs should be "fixed" only to the extent that they fail to accurately represent their training data.

First, as to whether conversation on Reddit (your handy proxy for the dominant voices on the scrapable Internet) are "hegemonic views." Here's the point to note: They are hegemonic views only on the scrapable Internet. They are not at all hegemonic views in the actual world (where a very large number of people do not have access to the Internet or do have access but have better things to do than post to Reddit). Once again, if I am an athropologist of Reddit I am in good shape with my scraped database. But what if I am someone who wants reliable information about Muslims? As we know, GPT-3, trained on the scrapable Internet, correlates Muslims with terrorism and violence. In the real world there are about 2 billion Muslims of whom the great majority are not violent terrorists. This information can be confirmed through a google search and a single trip to Wikipedia and yet GPT-3 nonetheless correlates Muslims with violence and terrorism because of its training data. (This likely comes down to a question of quantity of data trumping quality of data.) My question for you is this: What other than the highly particular use-cases of an anthropologist who hopes to identify prejudices among Reddit groups or a screenwriter who wants to emulate such groups is a good reason for a text generator that misinforms users by generating biased text about 2 billion people who are themselves underrepresented in the training data?

Now as to this issue of "fixing." Bender, Gebru et al. are not arguing for some one-size-fits-all fix, and are not recommending censorship. Nor are they promoting some artificial engineering of fairness in the way you seem to assume. They are (to cite their abstract) recommending "investing resources into curating and carefully documenting datasets rather than ingesting everything on the web."

The question for you is: are you against curating and carefully documenting datasets and if so why?

To be thoroughly clear: this is not a matter of "fixing." It is a matter of knowing what it is that what one is modeling rather than using whatever is in reach, however imperfect and unfathomable, and then (as you appear to do) elevating what's in reach into a proxy for "hegemonic" human speech.

At their most prospective, Bender, Gebru et al are making the case for data that more accurately represents the world in its variety and possibility; whereas you are stubbornly insisting that a certain scrapable part of the world is "the data" and "is what it is." Here this scraped "data" becomes, for you, the only defensible empirical fact. Paradoxically, Bender, Gebru et al. are the true empiricists while you in effect project some ineffable ideal value onto the scrapable internet as though it represents some pure kind of knowledge that the act of curation will somehow trouble.

Finally, you write: "And now the question is: do we want our language model (which happens to be trained on reddit) to reflect the language use of people on reddit, or do we want our language model to reflect how we think people should be speaking (on reddit or elsewhere)?"

As I hope is now clear, the actual question provoked by Bender, Gebru et al. is more like this: Do we want language models to be trained on the language use of people on Reddit or do we want our models to be trained on a much more representative view of the world's speakers through the agency of data sets that we ourselves understand and whose provenance we can document?

I can't imagine why you would find that objectionable.

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