muting or binning is not justified in my opinion - the question doesn't look like a troll to me. Ignoring is fine. I would have done nothing.
Honnza, is JanDvorak for clarification :)
I am not convinced we should mute vamps. Vamps should be warned first. Not sure about chronic vamps that have been warned, though.
I was the user issuing the ban. The question itself wasn't regarded as an attempt to troll. He was being a help vampire again.
I'm not saying that he isn't a troll too but in that case he was not trolling, so it also wasn't the reason for the ban.
@honnza he has been warned on a regular basis for a couple of weeks now.
If OKOK starts vamping, I'd suggest: 1) a reminder to not vamp, then 2) a short mute (~10min or less), then 3) a longer mute (an hour or more) and then progressively longer bans unless he starts to change his behavior.
hmm. given he's been already warned, I'm willing to skip 1)
In this case I wouldn't have done much, but I do see where Octavian is coming from. You know okok's repertoire and memoir, but I would like to freshen up a specific conversation: http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/9832921#9832921
He doesn't want to be a part of the community. He has repeatedly said he doesn't like us, and shown over and over that he disrespects us, the moderators and SO in general by flat-out ignoring most of what we say and suggest.
You want something to show he hasn't learned from the 10 bagillion times we told him to Google? http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/10217289#10217289
The day before that, when we had the "500 greatest songs of all time" argument, he joined and actually talked. That was a very good surprise, I thought that maybe he decided he can be a member. But he destroyed that later, just showing that if he actually wanted or cared, he could talk like a decent human being. I don't like penalties, they suck, and I've given him more and more chances because I'm an idiot and sometimes believe people can be better. But he has disappointed me over and over.
Perma-banning isn't really a thing with the muting system, since being in gallery is sort-of a drag, but I do agree that while Octavian's response seems harsh when looking at just this message, I can understand where he's coming from (oh look, I said the exact same sentence in the beginning. so this must be the end of the comment.)
I agree that the perma-ban was possibly a bit too much. But there is no doubt that okok/whatever is damn annoying. If he has changed his behaviour and wants to be a contributing member of our community, he should be allowed to voice that opinion and then act on it (which I personally think is unlikely). Would it be better to have the mute command require more than 1 room owner? Or perhaps a ban length that increases with each offence?
We've been remarkably courteous to okok. He's been a troll this whole time. The only option we haven't done is a permaban. Why continue to do things that we know don't work on him? He'll return and continue his pitiful trolling. The only thing we can do is slam down the banhammer and show him it's not ok to troll.
Annoying people will stay annoying you cant change them :P ... thats all i can say for instance you can't change zirak from trolling when he feels or cant make octavian say yes on a legitmate thing when hes feeling of saying NO or wanting to slap me..
So i'd say give a person a warning and short ban .. but if they continue being a douche troll after a week or two perma ban that person forever.. .Its a general reply to all.. Besides being a troll not helpful help vampire causes migranes and frustrations and leaves bad marks on their mind..
in OkoK's context
we dont like him .. yes
But we dont like him for a reason we didn't came out with this mutual dislike in one second or so its so because of his own faults. Its our common perspective of not liking him altogether and hence the dislike of the majority we have had given him enough chances to repair his mind and become a good person.. I'd say just ban him...
I try hard to understand people and don't like banning, but okok just leaves me confused.
He can't be too hard to ignore, can he?
I'd be happy with a series of bans starting on one day and growing if he doesn't show the intent to change. If he does apologise, we should be nice.
@simonsarris In theory ignoring works but in practice it has proven to be broken.
The reason for that is that while one or two might put him on ignore, some other users won't. The users ignoring him will see other users not ignoring him, react to his trolling and knowledge/energy sucking attempts.
We've tried that but it just doesn't work.
He's been suspended at least four times by mods IIRC. The first two suspensions were for 24 hours, then one for two or so days (I could have been more, I'm not sure about this one) and the last one was for two weeks.
The above suspensions were just moderator issued suspensions, the amount of automatic offensive flag suspensions is probably higher than the mod suspensions. Those are one our to two hour suspensions.
I don't know how many more chances he should get.
Then we should probably crank up. If two weeks didn't change him, make it four or even higher. A manual reban once per month is low enough for us, and plenty of options for him to ask for forgiveness.
My initial concern still holds, however: lame questions are not neccessarily trolling, and if he's not actively trolling, we shouldn't treat him worse than other repeat vampires. Should we ban repeat vampires if they're as persistent as OKOK?
I don't think we should give users the finger because we dislike them.. he was just asking a question - not a very clever one, but he wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything
Had I asked that question I bet no one would have said a thing. Heck, if a random user came here and asked that he would have gotten a fair answer. Researching google for image resizing in JS doesn't yield any good results and this rooms contains people who know how to do it.
I respect and value Octavian's opinion however I still believe he was mistaken here. okok was banned for two weeks and has not been rude since - at least not deliberately. This sort of muting is what encourages him into bad behavior in the first place.
I would have possibly done the following: