log seh pseudo nars low level perception.txt

<sseehh_> on the opencog mailnig list ben mentioned wanting to make a grid-like version of atomspace for processing image data like destin was supposed to be used for
<sseehh_> i think something similar could apply to nars
<sseehh_> a grid of inheritance terms
<sseehh_> and apply a regular inference algorithm across them uniformly
<sseehh_> below nal4 or something
<sseehh_> like today with tony's example, i confined it to level 1
<sseehh_> only inheritance statements
<SquareOfTwo__> so they gave up destin :D
<sseehh_> no idea but itamar wanted to commercialize that shit in the worst way
<SquareOfTwo__> thats bad
<sseehh_> probably sold it to the military and moved to another galaxy
<SquareOfTwo__> because some ideas of destin were valid for perception imho
<sseehh_> http://binatix.com/
<sseehh_> copyrig 2012 nothing else
<sseehh_> i bet he's offworld and that email bounces
<SquareOfTwo__> hm for high level perception you need some form of NAL-8 for motions
<SquareOfTwo__> or a emulation of NAL-8
<sseehh_> yeah but for the lowest level of vision or other percept processing, lesser nal levels would preprocess it
<SquareOfTwo__> ...some AGI's make it into the intergalctic space, others dont
<SquareOfTwo__> agreed
<sseehh_> mini-concepts
<sseehh_> we didnt yet explore my idea with the vector truth values
<SquareOfTwo__> on high level foundalis like concept networks still make sense i think
<sseehh_> as a way of encoding sensory data
<sseehh_> without destroying it
<SquareOfTwo__> no idea how, just try it :)
<sseehh_> %<0.9, 0.2, 0.3>;0.75%
<sseehh_> <pixel1 --> eye>. :|: %<r=0.945, g=0.255, b=0.154;0.95%
<sseehh_> <pixel1 --> eye>. :|: %<r=0.945, g=0.255, b=0.154>;0.95%
<SquareOfTwo__> ah
<sseehh_> <pixel2 --> eye>. :|: %<r=0.945, g=0.255, b=0.154>;0.50%
<sseehh_> <pixel2 --> eye>. :|: %<r=0.945, g=0.155, b=0.154>;0.50%
<sseehh_> etc
<SquareOfTwo__> but aren't these properties?
<sseehh_> these wouldnt mix ordinarily with scalar truths
<sseehh_> it is replacing the frequency value, which has always been assumed to be a scalar number betwee 0..1.0
<sseehh_> with a generic type
<sseehh_> and i did this with MetaTruth.java
<sseehh_> but its not subclassed any other way yet
<sseehh_> confidence remains the same
<SquareOfTwo__> hm
<sseehh_> these values could be decomposed to the scalar form,
<sseehh_> but it would involve additional terms
<sseehh_> in the meantime, the actual data can be stored this way
<SquareOfTwo__> colors make only sense in context to other pixels
<sseehh_> and if reasoning chooses to decompose it, then it can be
<sseehh_> <<pixel2 --> eye> --> [red]>. :|: %0.954;0.50%
<sseehh_> but up to that point it doesnt need decomposed and we don need to flood the input system with such data
<sseehh_> it can be packed into its original vector for
<sseehh_> form
<SquareOfTwo__> but then you need a triple
<SquareOfTwo__> like
<sseehh_> thats what i meant it is not gaining anything computationally
<sseehh_> you could use a product too
<SquareOfTwo__> <pixel2 --> eye>. :|: %<r=0.945, g=0.155, b=0.154>:0.3;0.50%
<sseehh_> what is the 0.3 there
<SquareOfTwo__> certainty of course
<sseehh_> then what is the 0.50
<SquareOfTwo__> freq
<sseehh_> no what im saying is that the frequency is the vector
<sseehh_> in this alternate form
<sseehh_> that the frequency is a generic type
<sseehh_> except we had always assumed it was 0..1.0 scalar
<SquareOfTwo__> that does make even less sense to me
<SquareOfTwo__> so there is no frequency?
<sseehh_> no, the frequency is a generic type
<sseehh_> it doesnt need to be a scalar number value between 0..1.0
<sseehh_> it could be a strig
<sseehh_> string
<sseehh_> a vector
<sseehh_> a bitvector
<sseehh_> whatever
<SquareOfTwo__> yes of course
<sseehh_> but that only in the context of it bveign a scalar between 0.1.0 does the NAL inference rules apply
<sseehh_> in these alternate forms, we could define logic rules. but we dont need to
<SquareOfTwo__> but a rgb value can'T be translated to a frequency
<sseehh_> i'm saying it is
<sseehh_> but its not one that we have logic rules for
<sseehh_> and we dont need them .. this form only is a transofrmation
<sseehh_> a way of encoding the input
<SquareOfTwo__> frequency does tell the system how many cases it has objservered where something is the case
<SquareOfTwo__> like 0001001
<sseehh_> before it gets decomposed to the natural 0...1.0 freq type
<SquareOfTwo__> the freq for 1 is 2/8
<sseehh_> yes, in that logic system it does
<sseehh_> but so does confidence
<sseehh_> for example
<sseehh_> if i observe 0.75;0.50 twice
<sseehh_> it is not the 0.75 value that will be modified
<sseehh_> it is the 0.50 confidence that will
<sseehh_> 0.75 remains the same
<sseehh_> likewise if i observe red twice with 0.50
<sseehh_> it is still red
<sseehh_> but higher confidence
<sseehh_> red is a frequency on the color spectrumj
<sseehh_> regardless if it's decomposed to RGB or a light wavelength
<SquareOfTwo__> sure it are scalars
<SquareOfTwo__> but they make sense just together
<sseehh_> NAL is designed to only work with the scalar values, i realize this
<sseehh_> what im saying is an implementation-specific modifciation
<SquareOfTwo__> i've nothing against comming up with new scalar logics
<sseehh_> its sort of like complex numbers
<SquareOfTwo__> yes i understand this
<SquareOfTwo__> and interpreting sensory data differently makes much sense
<SquareOfTwo__> like you could cluster colors by time and context
<sseehh_> it is just a way of representing this sensory data in a temporary state
<sseehh_> losslessly
<sseehh_> before the system decides to decompose it for actual inference
<sseehh_> which it may never do
<SquareOfTwo__> that makes a lot of sense
<sseehh_> but if it never does, at leats it wont waste the inference's processing
<SquareOfTwo__> but,...its not nars anymore :D
<sseehh_> and if it does, it will have the complete original data
<sseehh_> at any point in the future with which it decides to operate on it
<sseehh_> which is not likely if it was processed up front and then AIKR'd to hell
<sseehh_> thousand cycles later who knows  how many bits of precision are lost
<sseehh_> no its not nars
<sseehh_> and i dont think i brought this up on the list and mentioned to pei