rasengan

freenode channel.log

16:50 < rasengan> Freenode limited accepted the resignations of several members of freenode staff in the past few days and will be publishing a public message about the whole situation later today.
16:50 < krishan> I'm just gonna leave it unanswered then.
16:50 < rasengan> to those who resigned - if there was a change from the original position please make sure to notify the board and reapply!
16:51 < superkuh> Aw. So it wasn't just a prank?
16:51 < mefistofeles> rasengan: when is this going to be published?
16:51 < mefistofeles> sorry, I mean where
16:51 < rasengan> later today or possibly your morning depending on time zone
16:51 < mason> FWIW, I came in and checked the topic.
16:51 -!- hussam [~hussam@unaffiliated/hussam] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:52 < MIF> hi
16:52 -!- debabrata [~debabrata@2409:4052:228a:b1c2:dd21:b7dd:7793:8cf7] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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16:53 <@Fuchs> rasengan: there have been no resignations.
16:53 -!- tonymec is now known as tonymec|away
16:53 <@Fuchs> rasengan: see the first few lines of my letter.
16:53 < rasengan> Fuchs: if you can send me a retraction via email that would be great as the copies I have don’t seem to indicate that.
16:54 < pgimeno> where will that be published?
16:54 -!- Guest20 [~textual@103.215.168.1] has joined #freenode
16:54 < MIF> wait someone is resigning?
16:54 <@Fuchs> rasengan: I work for freenode the IRC network, the freenode IRC network that I have been working for more than 10 years, and hell will freeze over twice before I will work for you
16:54 <@amdj> The copies you have were not sent to you by us, and you know that.
16:54 <@Fuchs> and you won't be getting anything from me that you recently demanded, neither access to anything, nor any e-mails
16:54 < rasengan> Thanks however for reconsidering. Freenode is important to us all and that’s the common ground that we should always focus on in this time.
16:54 < roadkill>  /whois rasengan
16:54 <@Fuchs> rasengan: if it was important to you, you would have done none of this.
16:55 -!- sagerking[m] [sagerkingm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-sxiqlfpajlnjrhsl] has joined #freenode
16:55 < rasengan> Fuchs: Lol?
16:55 < mefistofeles> and this is what I meant when I said "when shit hits the fan"...
16:55 <@Fuchs> if it is important to you, let it go. For anything else: see that draft of mine that got leaked, there is nothing more to say, really.
16:56 < rasengan> Fuchs: Your draft is lies and because I care I’m stopping you and your team from your hostile takeover of freenode.
16:56 < squirrel> o_o
16:56 < MIF> rasengan: HE WORKS FOR FREENODE
16:56 < MIF> HE HIS FREENODE
16:56 < mefistofeles> +m ?
16:57 < moonshin1> let them talk
16:57 < rasengan> You ban abusively, and haven’t really helped freenode at all until now. Freenode policies have been shaped for you and your posse to extract value and now you’re holding it hostage while asking people to go to another network.
16:57 < rasengan> Further fracturing irc.
16:57 < mefistofeles> sure, we shouldn't be disturbing it
16:57 -!- bandali [~bandali@fsf/emeritus/bandali] has joined #freenode
16:57 -!- DarkRTA [~Dark@unaffiliated/darkrta] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:57 <@Fuchs> MIF: have been, for the past ten years, and gladly will continue, for that freenode.
16:58 < rasengan> I supported freenode with lots of funding and legal support including for issues you caused in mine test and other places.
16:58 <@jess> 2021-03-15 21:21:47 <rasengan> I have not, am not, and will not interfere with the operations of freenode outside of when asked for help [...]
16:58 < rasengan> You specifically, Fuchs.
16:58 -!- trinityblade [~textual@adsl-76-211-177-0.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
16:58 <@jess> aged like fucking milk that one
16:58 -!- Adam [Adam@unaffiliated/adam-] has joined #freenode
16:58 -!- davie [~davie@swift/founder/davie] has joined #freenode
16:58 < Khaytsus> MIF: Sit back and watch
16:58 < Joel> jess LOL
16:58 < rasengan> Jess: that is absolutely a statement I made. I wouldn’t be involved if you and tomaw didn’t stage a hostile takeover and drive Christel out.
16:58 -!- toasty_oats [~toasty_oa@2605:8d80:6e0:f4c3:e3ae:aedb:17ec:9384] has joined #freenode
16:58 -!- zoite [~zoite@unaffiliated/zoite] has joined #freenode
16:59 < Joel> this reminds me of being 11 and on efnet.
16:59  * Joel grabs popcorn
16:59 -!- Humblebee [~Uhh@41.234.114.40] has quit [Quit: o no]
16:59 < pgimeno> rasengan: are you https://github.com/realrasengan ?
16:59 -!- unknown_lamer [~clinton@174.99.11.60] has joined #freenode
16:59 <@jess> i can't imagine she'd like you lying in her name
16:59 < rasengan> Yes pgimeno
16:59 < pgimeno> thanks
16:59 < LondonNoTrust> I would just like to say I am enjoying that people are getting their emotions out and creating drama, it's good convo.
16:59 -!- DarkRTA [~Dark@unaffiliated/darkrta] has joined #freenode
16:59 < rasengan> Jess oh ok. I’m lying. Right.
16:59 < LondonNoTrust> :enjoy:
17:00  * roadkill reaches over into Joel's popcorn bucket
17:00 < [smlckz]> rasengan: how big is the scope of the legal matter and how much are the normal users will be affected by the proceedings?
17:00 < Joel> roadkill don't go too deep, you might get a surpris
17:00 -!- nanoconan [~IceChat95@fctnnbsc38w-47-55-92-98.dhcp-dynamic.fibreop.nb.bellaliant.net] has joined #freenode
17:00 < rasengan> Normal users will not be affected outside of the former staff spamming their network.
17:00 < roadkill> As long as it's buttered up...
17:00 -!- Rudd0 [~Rudd0@185.189.115.103] has joined #freenode
17:00 <@Fuchs> who would put butter on popcorn
17:00 -!- valeness [~weechat@unaffiliated/valeness] has joined #freenode
17:00 <@Fuchs> salt, okay. Suger, if you really have to. But: butter?
17:00 -!- OoCeVH_v [~powerful@168.235.71.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
17:01 < rasengan> I have been custodian of freenode for many years. Freenode ran well. That will continue beyond this for sure.
17:01 < Joel> Fuchs anyone wanting to pull the popcorn trick.
17:01 -!- FUZxxl [~fuz@fuz.su] has joined #freenode
17:01 <@Fuchs> Joel: no thanks, this channel is safe for work
17:01 -!- bcoppens [~bartcopp@kde/coppens] has joined #freenode
17:01 < squirrel> wait is this here Andrew Lee
17:01 < mefistofeles> I suggest parties just state the facts and evidence in a public verififiable way... or else, deal with this internally and inform users what is going on once you reach a consensus... or inform if you don't reach one and why...
17:01 -!- AppleTor [~AppleTor@2404:8000:1003:4c3f:5cc2:1728:bccf:407d] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
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17:02 < rasengan> Fuchs: The freenode limited board does not recognize you as a volunteer or any staff or operator of freenode.  Please remove yourself from ops and operator status.  Thank you.
17:02 < rasengan> :)
17:02 < LondonNoTrust> rasengan, to be fair, freenode didn't really run that well.   i mean yeah the servers stayed up, but it was full of abusive and biased moderations.
17:02 -!- micmac [~micmac@unaffiliated/micmac/x-2360826] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:02 < rasengan> I know
17:02 < rasengan> We will work on that with the community.
17:02 <@Fuchs> rasengan: and I do not recognize the freenode limited board as anything, I'm afraid there is no contract between me and it, and I've been oper on this network for longer than freenode limited even exists. Request denid.
17:02 -!- kemal [~kemal@unaffiliated/kemal] has joined #freenode
17:02 < rasengan> I was hands off until now so I apologize.
17:02 < MIF> what is freenode imited
17:03 -!- plains [~plains@unaffiliated/plains] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb1+focal2 - https://znc.in]
17:03 < LondonNoTrust> Thanks, i accept your apology, even though you don't owe me one.
17:03 < ljharb> wtf is a "freenode board"
17:03 -!- sigrid [~ftrvxmtrx@ftrv.se] has joined #freenode
17:03 < nimue> kloeri: hello
17:03 -!- pyratebeard [~pyratebea@104.248.161.132] has joined #freenode
17:03 -!- gnomus [~gnomus@185.169.233.10] has joined #freenode
17:03 -!- logiz [~logiz@pool-100-2-192-142.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #freenode
17:04 < zoite> can i be on the freenode board
17:04 -!- plains [~plains@unaffiliated/plains] has joined #freenode
17:04 < rasengan> The freenode users, groups and so forth deserve representation. I was going to wait until Monday but I’ll post the decentralization of freenode plan today in a few hours or so.
17:04 -!- voidpi [~voidpi@unaffiliated/estulticia] has joined #freenode
17:04 < rasengan> This will be resolved and signed by the board and put into action.
17:04 -!- jescis-Desktop1 [~jescis@c-66-177-166-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #freenode
17:04 < Joel> I'd rather sit on something comfortable, a board seems painful
17:04 < valeness> I can vouch for zoite. He'd make a good board member
17:04 -!- Angelo_Pisani_ak [5d1d613a@58.97.29.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:04 -!- Bublik [~Bublik@bzq-82-81-85-239.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
17:04 -!- micmac [~micmac@unaffiliated/micmac/x-2360826] has joined #freenode
17:04 < voidpi> so, freenode is done https://p.haavard.me/407 ?
17:05 < terpri> ljharb, freenode *limited* board, i.e. the board of directors of a legal entity associated with freenode: https://opencorporates.com/companies/gb/10308021
17:05 < rasengan> anyone who is currently or holds themselves out to be freenode staff may contact me by message if you want to be involved with freenode go forward. I’ll forgive everyone including you Fuchs
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17:05 <@FireFly> I don't really know what you're expecting
17:05 < rasengan> hioe to hear from you all and I’ll have the draft plan posted shortly. Thanks for your patience everyone and thanks for using freenode.
17:05 < rasengan> We are happy to serve you.
17:05 < ljharb> lol what a weirdly specific way to troll
17:05 < nimue> Oh hej FireFly god kväll
17:05 < pgimeno> as a user and an advocate of freedom, I don't want to belong to a network that goes non-free, so I hope that the situation is clearly explained so I can take an informed decision on whether to stay or leave
17:05 < nimue> sorry, I don't know how to say good afternoon.
17:05 < superkuh> rasengan, are there other people that agree with you? Where are they?
17:05 < aab_> are all them resignations fake
17:06 <@Fuchs> aab_: no, but they were drafts and got leaked
17:06 -!- dvzrv [~dvzrv@archlinux/developer/dvzrv] has joined #freenode
17:06 <@kline> aab_, no freenode staffer has resigned yet, no
17:06 < Church-> Oh heya superkuh
17:06 <@kline> they were just leaked drafts for the worst case scenario
17:06 <@Fuchs> aab_: as of now, nobody resigned and freenode is still ran by the same volunteers that ran it for the past 20 years
17:06 -!- elf [dark@underworld.monster] has joined #freenode
17:06 < aab_> oops damn search engines
17:06 < Nei> whos' on the board of rasengan's freenode ltd company except for rasengan ?
17:06 <@FireFly> nimue: g'evening
17:06 < superkuh> I'm ignorant, I admit, but right now it looks like it is one person associated with a limited liability corporation versus a bunch of people.
17:06 -!- elf is now known as Guest63347
17:06 < superkuh> But surely that's not true.
17:06 < aab_> should have kept them in a text file on someone's desktop then they would never have been cached
17:07 -!- fe80 [~fe80@gateway/tor-sasl/fe80] has joined #freenode
17:07 < Church-> Ditto what superkuh said.
17:07  * nimue waves happily and wishes FireFly a nice weekend! Ha en god helg?
17:07 <@Fuchs> aab_: ah well
17:07 -!- adde9708 [uid139358@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ketkymyricpitdeg] has joined #freenode
17:07 -!- Tellah [~Tellah@unaffiliated/tellah] has joined #freenode
17:07 <@jess> coulda woulda shoulda
17:07 < Dwarf> didn't
17:07 <@kline> mistakes happen
17:07 -!- lagbox [~devnull@freenode/staff/lagbox] has joined #freenode
17:07 -!- mode/#freenode [+o lagbox] by ChanServ
17:07 < Church-> Indeed
17:07 < Dwarf> jess: do you listen to kpop?
17:07 <@mniip> maybe I shouldn't've linked ~/Desktop to /var/www
17:07 < roadkill> my big question about what is going on is this, and it's pretty important... what's your favorite color?
17:07 -!- jackhill [~jackhill@marsh.hcoop.net] has joined #freenode
17:07 < Church-> Not the worst thing accidentally linked
17:07 < aab_> drafts are good but does anyone know when libera.chat will be available?
17:07 < MIF> mniip: lol
17:07 -!- powerhouse [~powerhous@2604:3d08:777f:f70::e32d] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
17:07 <@emilsp> roadkill: green
17:08 -!- kreiGT [~kreig@45.76.15.1] has joined #freenode
17:08 < superkuh> Welp, anyway, make sure to mention all the human people on your side when you put up the statement, rasengan.
17:08 <@jess> mine's purple
17:08 -!- sincorchetes [4f98d034@fedora/sincorchetes] has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat]
17:08 <@mniip> roadkill, acidic green is good
17:08 < MIF> Church-: once I thought I removed my entire /home file
17:08 < nimue> mine is blue
17:08 < MIF> I just moved it to /var/www/html/home
17:08 -!- haavard [root@haavard.me] has joined #freenode
17:08 < Khaytsus> MIF: I've done rm -fR ./ path before
17:08 < kemal> roadkill: light green
17:08 < Khaytsus> SOmehow injected a space in it
17:08 < voidpi> so who are these morons trying to take over freenode?
17:08 < Church-> MIF: Heh
17:09 < logiz> magenta
17:09 -!- pyratebeard [~pyratebea@104.248.161.132] has left #freenode []
17:09 -!- Jfreegman [~Jfreegman@unaffiliated/jfreegman] has joined #freenode
17:09 <@Fuchs> blue, definitely blue
17:09 <@Fuchs> (what are we talking about?)
17:09 < Dwarf> The way you like your waffles, Fuchs
17:09 < mefistofeles> Fuchs: favorite state of mind... blue!
17:10 -!- sigrid [~ftrvxmtrx@ftrv.se] has left #freenode []
17:10 < Foxboron> Is there anywhere I can read up on the relationship between Freenode the network and the company Freenode Limited?
17:10 < nimue> favorite colors
17:10 <@emilsp> sique burn, Dwarf
17:10 < FUZxxl> love me some nice Freebode drama
17:10 -!- stevenm [~stevenm@195.62.201.126] has joined #freenode
17:10 < zoite> what if freenode staff and the new company had a tournament like mortal kombat for ownership
17:10 <@jess> i'm pretty good at mario kart
17:10 -!- _till_ [~till@unaffiliated/till/x-7804721] has joined #freenode
17:10 < mefistofeles> I vote for jess
17:10 < zoite> i meant a real fighting tournament not video games
17:10 < terpri> Nei, rasengan is the sole active board member, according to https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10308021/officers
17:10 < betawaffle> I’ve been pretty happy with the freenode staff so far.
17:10 -!- cthulchu [~Cthulchu@193.194.107.250] has joined #freenode
17:10 < aab_> yey mario kart
17:11 -!- exvicesindaco [~Username@unaffiliated/exvicesindaco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:11 < aab_> it's a me jessyyyy
17:11 < terpri> (and christel was a board member but evidently resigned in march)
17:11 <@kline> terpri, the big question i suppose is, what does freenode ltd have to do with freenode-the-volunteer-run-irc-network
17:11 < mefistofeles> "Denver, Colerado"
17:11 -!- kurahaupo [~kurahaupo@unaffiliated/kurahaupo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
17:11 < rasengan> Kline just ownership, as your letter said ;)
17:12 < mefistofeles> kline: indeed
17:12 < superkuh> ownership of the trademarks?
17:12 < terpri> kline, i have no idea. i was just curious about Nei's question
17:12 -!- Romarain [~Romarain@119.12.203.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:12 < moonshin1> from my pov, freenode has been working great, so that credit should go to the people doing the work of running things
17:12 < rasengan> Which ahain doesn’t matter other than yoh and your posse takeover attempt.
17:12 < rasengan> I won’t let you guys mess freenode up.
17:12 < aab_> but if freenode ltd is on companies house would that not mean freenode is a business and it is making money
17:12 -!- catgirl [~rmb@archlinux/trusteduser/coderobe] has joined #freenode
17:12 < superkuh> rasengan, that's and all. But is it really only you taking this stance?
17:12 < superkuh> Er, +cool
17:12 < rasengan> It’s not making money aab unless you call my support revenue (it’s donation)
17:13 -!- dexbot [~s2r7BI7Mu@67.209.248.232] has joined #freenode
17:13 < betawaffle> rasengan: what exactly are they attempting to do?
17:13 < mefistofeles> rasengan: non-rofit shouldn't make money
17:13 < mefistofeles> *profit
17:13 < rasengan> superkuh actuallt there are many who take this position I’m sure you will too once you see what transpired
17:13 < aab_> if it's a non profit why is it a ltd company lol
17:13 < superkuh> Okay. Looking forward to more info.
17:13 < rasengan> It’s not making money mefistofeles see above :)
17:13 < Joel> rasengan if you take over freenode, I'm out, that's all I have to say, you're not exactly displaying class.
17:14 < ldm> I'm still not seeing the link between rasengan and Freenode Ltd on companies house...
17:14 < mplsCorwin> rasengan: may I ask about the motion to strike against Freenode LLC?  I actually got +b in this channel asking if, for example, the Privacy Policy (which references the LLC, busn addr of, etc) will be updated based on this.
17:14 < rasengan> Joel - no problem. After waiting 2 months and getting slandered I don’t think there’s a such thing as class.
17:14 -!- ace_me [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/ace-me/x-814638] has quit [Quit: Thank you]
17:14 < terpri> ldm, iiuc rasengan is andrew lee
17:14 -!- reber_ is now known as reber
17:14 < LondonNoTrust> betawaffle, you haven't been an exemplary channel mod -- you stood by and did nothing while abusive mods banned people on #bitcoin and bitcoin-* for like 10 years now.
17:14 < Joel> nobody wants an 11 year old for a leader
17:14 -!- TaLaS [~powerful@168.235.71.142] has joined #freenode
17:14 < rasengan> Mpls: that’s ridiculous. You should it get banned fir asking a question
17:14 < ldm> right okay, I thought there was some proof I was missing
17:14 < zoite> will Vice be covering this story?
17:15 < moonshin1> zoite: no, tmz
17:15 < mefistofeles> I mean, my account is even older than rasengan ... why are we letting this user intervene over freenode's future over Fuchs or similar? There is information that's missing here
17:15 < LondonNoTrust> and that goes for all of the dumb mods on #bitcoin* channels
17:15 -!- Rudd0 [~Rudd0@185.189.115.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
17:15 < Joel> zoite hopefully springer comes out of retirement
17:15 -!- kemal [~kemal@unaffiliated/kemal] has left #freenode []
17:15 -!- Baytuch [~pi@adsl.my-server.km.ua] has joined #freenode
17:15 -!- g0_ [~g@5.2.79.161] has joined #freenode
17:15 < slimdaddy> rasengan’s favorite color is red because that’s all he sees, clearly with those typos. Take a breath
17:15 <@dho> can we please keep this chat on focused on assisting freenode users? thanks.
17:15 < Khaytsus> mplsCorwin: funny, I don't see that in my logs ;)
17:16 -!- janik [~janik@gateway/tor-sasl/janik] has joined #freenode
17:16 < superkuh> dho, without freenode the users will have a bad time.
17:16 < betawaffle> LondonNoTrust: what I’ve seen hasn’t been abusive, but I suppose that could be argued.
17:16 < mplsCorwin> Khaytsus: I can find receipts if we are really doing this.  I make them pretty hard to get at.
17:16 < rasengan> Invited everyone in staff to freenode-staff-discussion and nobody came. I came here and Fuchs and Kline were talking about me lol
17:16 -!- Rudd0 [~Rudd0@185.189.115.103] has joined #freenode
17:16 < rasengan> please chat there if you guys want to Continue I’m there. Cheers.
17:16 < aab_> freenode will be fine they will just get more staff
17:16 < aab_> then train them up
17:17 -!- thoughtcrime [~thoughtcr@gateway/tor-sasl/thoughtcrime] has joined #freenode
17:17 -!- thafaker539 [~thelounge@ip9234017a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:17 < mplsCorwin> rasengan: not really about me getting +b; I was in fact a bit out of line.  It's about if the privacy policy or other things need to change given the motion to strike.
17:18 -!- Kal3ssiN [~Kal3ssiN@fedora/Kal3ssiN] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:18 -!- Umbire [~Umbire@unaffiliated/umbire] has joined #freenode
17:18 < tech_exorcist> public service announcement; a spammer just appeared on a small IRC network, they may get to bigger ones
17:18 -!- bpalmer [~user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has joined #freenode
17:18 < MIF> eh tech_exorcist
17:18 < tech_exorcist> ?
17:19 < mplsCorwin> As a user, I was just asking.  Can also say that the tone in #freenode seems to chase of the most on-topic conversation from being here.  but also that over decades the ops and policies here are excellent, and I'm a happy user.
17:19 -!- stree [~stree@68.36.8.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
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17:19 <@Fuchs> mplsCorwin: glad to hear that, and we are not changing our policies, and he can't ban you.
17:20 <@Fuchs> if we are let to, freenode will continue to run as it was ran successfully the past twenty-something years
17:20 -!- phy1729 [~phy1729@zsh/wizard/phy1729] has joined #freenode
17:20 < another> hmm.. didn't think I would be getting into British company filings when I got up today. Better open those strategic popcorn reserves...
17:20 -!- virginiemaris [~Thunderbi@2a01:e0a:8ea:c440:b53b:348f:736:f71d] has joined #freenode
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17:20 < Adran> fwiw i too think this is all a bit absurd and freenode doesn't need fixing.. staff are respectful and generally very good at what they do which is volunteer and spend untold hours doing a lot of labor intensive stuff to keep this place working. idk
17:20 < muirrum> question: what actual practical power does rasengan have over the network itself (servers, ircop, etc.)?
17:20 < Adran> this seems just nuts and should just leave well enough alone
17:20 < mplsCorwin> Fuchs: :)  I apprecaite all y'all.  I'd like to see more "fighting it out" in public spaces. +q the channel when you have to I guess but model the self-governing with transparency thing if you can at all stand to, please.
17:20 < mefistofeles> muirrum: that would helpful to know, been asking the same
17:20 <@jess> i'm not very happy about operational control of the network forcefully being changed from who it has been for many years
17:20 < terpri> another, same :)
17:20 < Church-> Well he owns them iirc through the LTD/LLC
17:20 < Church-> Err owns the servers*
17:20 -!- thafaker539 [~thelounge@146.52.1.122] has joined #freenode
17:20 < Church-> Afaik which may be wrong
17:20 -!- xenrox [~xenrox@unaffiliated/xenrox] has joined #freenode
17:20 < Adran> bring back the PDPC
17:21 -!- xenrox [~xenrox@unaffiliated/xenrox] has left #freenode ["bye"]
17:21 < roadkill> another: Joel has some buttered popcorn and hot dogs without the bun if you'd like
17:21 < rasengan> This all started because the freenode domain accounts were taken over.
17:21 <@Fuchs> mplsCorwin: unfortunately some stuff has been leaked, we didn't plan to do any public fighting, however, as now there are some false informations circling around, I guess we have no choice other than correcting them
17:21 < brabo> jess: i second that
17:21 < thoughtcrime> I'm not entirely sure about what's happening, but knowing staff like Fuchs for years, I fully support people like him because of his ideals.
17:21 <@jess> volunteer freenode staff have been running the place through thick and thin for very many years for absolutely free
17:21 < rasengan> and then they were held hostage
17:21 < rasengan> Thanks Jess.
17:21 <@Fuchs> thoughtcrime: thank you ♥
17:21 -!- Atum_ [~IRC@unaffiliated/atum/x-2392232] has quit [Quit: Atum_]
17:21 < Joel> Fuchs does your group hold the domain, or no?
17:21 <@amdj> muirrum: none.
17:21 -!- kurahaupo [~kurahaupo@unaffiliated/kurahaupo] has joined #freenode
17:21 < zoite> freenode staff deserves a raise
17:22 <@jess> no i want to work for free
17:22 < Khaytsus> zoite: Double their pay!
17:22 < MIF> I don't care waht rasengan says I am going to listen to the staff
17:22 <@jess> this would suck if i was being paid
17:22 < mplsCorwin> Fuchs: i get that. i somewhat think it's for the best.  people tire more quickly of things that are in plain sight vs those they have to dig for dirt on.
17:22 <@Fuchs> zoite: from 0$ to 0$, sure, that's double the current one!
17:22 -!- CordialCatto [cordialcat@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/cordialcatto] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
17:22  * vulpine gives jess a 2000% raise
17:22 < mefistofeles> let us don't make this a political bipartidism, please... we ough to be better
17:22 < zoite> maybe we can give you more vacation days
17:22 <@jess> and operational control moving under the direct control of a for-profit enterprise makes me sick to my stomach
17:22 < zoite> let's join a union
17:22 < MIF> so freenode IS changing?
17:23 <@kline> nothing is changing yet
17:23 < Church-> TBD
17:23 <@Fuchs> MIF: not for now, no
17:23 <@kline> and if anything does change
17:23 < terpri> zoite, solidarity forever :)
17:23 <@kline> it will be communicated clearly and objectively
17:23 < mefistofeles> jess: ok, I agree... but then, this company owns the infrastructure, right?
17:23 < MIF> so then what was rasengan talking about?
17:23 < brabo> jess: likewise for many floss projects on here. we don't want that.
17:23 < Khaytsus> MIF: We'll just move to your irc network
17:23 <@jess> no
17:23 < LondonNoTrust> methat's your continuing mistake -- you can't moderate people out of being political.  You're just making them repress feelings which only leeds to a bigger blow up later.
17:23 < LondonNoTrust> er
17:23 <@jess> infrastructureis totally donated
17:23 < MIF> Khaytsus: YES
17:23 < LondonNoTrust> mefistofeles,
17:23 < Thedarkb-Desktop> It's less partisanship and more being uncomfortable with the idea of someone who hasn't really engaged with the community for as long as can remember barging in and shouting orders.
17:23 <@kline> MIF, thats just an opinion, its not reflective of reality yet
17:23 < Thedarkb-Desktop> as I can*
17:23 < mplsCorwin> kline: cool beans, just want I want to hear :)
17:23 <@jess> by various volunteering sponsors from many walks of lfe
17:23 <@jess> life
17:23 < MIF> so rasengan does NOT own freenode
17:24 <@amdj> mefistofeles: no. our hardware is provided free of cost by sponsors, in return for advertisement in the server's MOTD and at https://freenode.net/acknowledgements
17:24 < mefistofeles> amdj: ok
17:24 <@jess> some companies, some individuals, none of our infrastructure currently belongs to the people claiming to own the network
17:24 -!- schneider [~schneider@irc2.xtort.eu] has joined #freenode
17:24 <@amdj> the hardware is owned by the sponsors.
17:24 <@kline> MIF, rasengan owns freenode ltd, which may or may not have claims to more than that, but its not clear and we dont think so as yet
17:24 < Church-> So this is a matter of owning the domain and trademarks, copyright, etc only?
17:24 <@Fuchs> and as per that, we obviously can't just hand access over or data to people demanding for it
17:24 <@kline> no freenode staff have contracts with the ltd company
17:24 <@kline> etc
17:24 < aab_> ah
17:24 -!- Psy-Q [~psy-q@www.psy-q.ch] has joined #freenode
17:24 < mefistofeles> thanks for the information! that was needed
17:25 < Joel> ^+1
17:25 <@jess> and actually having the network run by someone willing bribe people with olines makes me sick to my stomach
17:25 -!- Trashlord [~trash@wikipedia/Sentient-Planet] has quit [Quit: "True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it."]
17:25 < MIF> ^
17:25 < Joel> ^
17:25 < mplsCorwin> wait... olines?
17:25 < A_D> bribes by way of "you can ban whoever you want" as well, no less
17:25 <@jess> oper status
17:25 < MIF> if freenode does change I am going to shut down my channels and leave
17:25 < mplsCorwin> I mean, how many olines?
17:25 < nitrix> jess, Even worse when they put on their ~ hat.
17:25 < A_D> mplsCorwin: olines are the oldtime name for oper status from when they were lines starting with O: in a config files
17:25 -!- Atum_ [IRC@gateway/vpn/airvpn/atum/x-01904479] has joined #freenode
17:25 < MIF> and I mean that
17:25 < Church-> Are we simping for oper status then?
17:25 <@kline> there have been no staff changes
17:25  * Church- simps for kline
17:25 -!- Cocopuff2018 [uid445178@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eorermdkpijpzeua] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
17:26 -!- kurahaupo [~kurahaupo@unaffiliated/kurahaupo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:26 <@Fuchs> join my OnlyOpers
17:26 < Church-> lolol
17:26 < mplsCorwin> A_D: sorry; my joke fell flat, appologies for the troll there.
17:26 < Church-> Fuchs: Gold, Jerry, Gold!
17:26 -!- wgreenhouse [5f6eac01c5@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has joined #freenode
17:26 < mefistofeles> ok, I think we have consensus on staffers apparently, which is good
17:26 -!- virginiemaris [~Thunderbi@2a01:e0a:8ea:c440:b53b:348f:736:f71d] has quit [Quit: virginiemaris]
17:26  * another bribes jess with olives
17:26 < Khaytsus> catnip
17:26 < [smlckz]> wgreenhouse: bad timing!
17:26 < joepie91> since we're throwing in 2 cents: I fully trust people like jess and Fuchs to do what is right for the network, and I certainly do *not* trust a for-profit company nor someone who's trying to bribe people and steamrolls over the concerns of those actually responsible for making Freenode what it is today
17:26 < mplsCorwin> may I please buy stock in onlyopers with my bitcoinz?
17:27  * vulpine bribes jess with smol sandcat pics
17:27 <@FireFly> Fuchs: lol
17:27 <@jess> pick who you want to listen to wisely; a lot of you know many of us staff and have done for extended periods of time
17:27 -!- benrob0329 [~benrob032@174-084-016-235.res.spectrum.com] has joined #freenode
17:27 < MIF> thanks jess now you just made it more confusing
17:27 < Frogging101> But they have no technical ability to use this power of theirs, so it's irrelevant, no?
17:27 < zoite> what can rasengan promise us? why should we pick you over jess
17:27 < mefistofeles> MIF: that's ok
17:28 < ecks> even though staff can't code i trust them infinitely more than andrew lee lol
17:28 < joepie91> the community is not a thing that is "owned", it is stewarded, by those who put their time and energy and heart into it, and certainly not by some legal incorporation
17:28 < A_D> MIF: in what way?
17:28 < mefistofeles> if people cannot deal with complexity they shouldn't be making any decisions :P
17:28 < MIF> I am just going to listen to jess
17:28 <@dho> TIL I can't code.
17:28 <@Fuchs> dho: olde meme
17:28 < A_D> dho: lol
17:28 -!- Akuli [~akuli@87-94-108-9.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #freenode
17:28 < MIF> she is the only one that I fully trust on here
17:28 <@jess> i appreciate the vote of confidence
17:28 -!- mymind [~my_mind@142-196-217-146.res.spectrum.com] has joined #freenode
17:28 < voidpi> joepie91: that's my stance but it's a hard thing to do since only a little money will bought you a bunch of morons
17:28 < rowbee> i remember the staff can't code spam it was funny
17:28 < Frogging101> so they own "the network" but none of the infrastructure and aren't on any ACLs... so this ownership is pretty limited in practice
17:28 < brabo> i trust the staff, and this community should not be governed by a for-profit entity.
17:28 < Frogging101> right?
17:29 <@jess> i was told they didn't own the network when i was hired
17:29 -!- facturacion1 [~Thunderbi@187.235.141.19] has joined #freenode
17:29 < kim_bruning> dho: once you learn you can't code, you can finally learn to code ;-)
17:29 < MIF> ^
17:29 <@dho> that's some galaxy brain shit
17:29 < MIF> ^
17:29 < [smlckz]> what is the de facto status? who has the de facto ownership (keys!), at least currently?
17:29 <@FireFly> as far as I'm aware, staff volunteering is, well, entirely voluntary
17:29 -!- Church- is now known as Morpheus
17:29 < Frogging101> what do they own then, exactly?
17:29 < MIF> from what I think the fame freenode
17:29 < Morpheus> dho: Take the red pill, and I'll show you how deep the LISP hole goes.
17:29 < kim_bruning> dho, which sounds all mystic and stupid, until you experience it either by yourself or vicariously
17:29 < MIF> *name
17:30 -!- kurahaupo [~kurahaupo@unaffiliated/kurahaupo] has joined #freenode
17:30 < nitrix> Morpheus, Am I the chosen one?
17:30 < kim_bruning> Morpheus, (oh (no (!)))
17:30 < kim_bruning> might need an extra '
17:30 -!- locotus [~noahfx@unaffiliated/noahfx] has joined #freenode
17:30 < MIF> am I correct with that they *MIGHT*(?????????????????) own the NAME freenode?
17:30 -!- bastelfreak [~bastelfre@voxpupuli/pmc/bastelfreak] has joined #freenode
17:30 -!- krishan [~krishan@wikimedia/-1997kb] has quit [Quit: Quit: Client Quit]
17:30 -!- finn_elija [~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716] has joined #freenode
17:31 < A_D> for reference on what happened the last time LTM tried this, and some opinion from me and some proof of some employees and their opinions on network security; https://gist.github.com/A-UNDERSCORE-D/66dcf27eaf14ecc0b07a642c34811269
17:31 < terpri> MIF: freenode ltd appears to own the domain freenode.net according to whois data
17:31 < Morpheus> (Or take the (blue) pill, and (be an op) who doesn't know how to code.)
17:31 < nitrix> What does the 17 question marks accomplish that 1 question mark wouldn't?
17:31 -!- aibo [~aibo@unaffiliated/aibo/x-2229875] has joined #freenode
17:31 < Thedarkb-Desktop> Who owned the domain prior to the foundation of Freenode Ltd?
17:31 < MIF> nitrix: shows that I am super confused
17:31 -!- dzho [~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho] has joined #freenode
17:31 <@jess> Thedarkb-Desktop: i would imagine christel
17:31 < mefistofeles> terpri: yeah, they claim the domain accounts have been held hostage... which is not good, but may worth it for a larger good
17:31 -!- milehigh- [sid406728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vwirxtdbxbzmwpjq] has joined #freenode
17:32 < nitrix> MIF, Is there a reference table for the amount of confused to the amount of question mark ratio?
17:32 -!- stree [~stree@68.36.8.116] has joined #freenode
17:32 < thoughtcrime> who cares about a domain name? someone could just buy the domain freernode.net, I may just pay for it
17:32 < Thedarkb-Desktop> What prompted the foundation of Freenode Ltd?
17:32 < nitrix> MIF, Or can I just assume it's linear?
17:32 < MIF> yes
17:32 -!- tos9 [~tos9@python/site-packages/tos9] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
17:32 < mefistofeles> thoughtcrime: pay for it and complain in a few years about it not making profit and take over the network... sounds like a plan! :)
17:32 < thoughtcrime> Thedarkb-Desktop: it's a long old story
17:32 < MIF> 5+ question marks means that I HAVE NOT ******* CLUE WHAT IS GOING ON nitrix
17:32 < SexIsBad2TheBone> the opposite of FireFly is waterfall
17:32 -!- Cocopuff2018 [uid445178@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uevawflebluqthgw] has joined #freenode
17:33 < SexIsBad2TheBone> okok i dont do it again
17:33 < MIF> 10+ means WHAT THE **** IS ****ing GOING THE ***** ON?
17:33 < joepie91> the line between "keeping hostage" and "protecting from a bad actor" is thin and mainly defined by the intentions of those involved
17:33 < nitrix> MIF, That's a strange way to communicate but I think I get it?????
17:33 < MIF> correct
17:33 < [smlckz]> who are the infrastructure providers seem to support?
17:33 < moonshin1> MIF calm down and have some dip
17:33 -!- Blankspace [~asddf@unaffiliated/blankspace] has joined #freenode
17:33 <@Fuchs> [smlckz]: well, they have donated the servers to us
17:33 <@Fuchs> [smlckz]: what their opinion is we'd have to ask them I guess
17:34 < [smlckz]> Fuchs: please ask
17:34 -!- tos9 [~tos9@python/site-packages/tos9] has joined #freenode
17:34 < fluix> it's probably a good idea not to bug anyone and just wait for public communication
17:34 <@Fuchs> that sounds like a good idea, yes
17:35 -!- mgol [~m_gol@84-10-66-88.static.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
17:35 < moonshin1> that's the {elephant,gorilla,whatever} in the room. who has a seat at the metaphorical table
17:36 <@Fuchs> moonshin1: debatable I'd say, but as of now: freenode is ran by and under control by the volunteers that have ran it for the past two decades   (well, obviously people joined and left during that period)
17:36 < milehigh-> i thought some guy owns it now
17:36 < [smlckz]> Fuchs: with the support of infra donors lies our abiliry to move infra to a new name and domain and leave the ''ltd'' behind
17:36 < milehigh-> and just them
17:36 <@Fuchs> that would be his claim, yes
17:37 -!- Bad_K4rMa [Bad_K4rMa@unaffiliated/rjphares] has joined #freenode
17:37 < milehigh-> where is he so i can tell him to suck it
17:37 <@Fuchs> [smlckz]: it would be trivial to move the whole infra over to new servers or new networks, but whether this can be done legally is not decided, so for now I wouldn't want to speculate on that, and we wouldn't have, but unfortuntaely some people leaked info and we had to answer to some wrong claims
17:38  * another has a seat at his own table! With blackjack!
17:38 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #freenode
17:38 < milehigh-> mine has hookers
17:38 <@Fuchs> I'm not a lawyer, that's what I have my legal insurance for, so I obviously won't make any legal claims
17:38 < milehigh-> forget the blackjack
17:38 <@amdj> also for reference, I too have a draft resignation letter, but I didn't put it on my webserver yet and haven't sent it to anyone; search engines and crawlers are a bit too good at their job. furthermore, the only people I would send it to are the other staff members, not some holding company I have no association with.
17:38 < LondonNoTrust> i got the craps table
17:38 < A_D> Fuchs: ` volunteers that have ran it for the past two decades` and have done a really good job
17:38 <@Fuchs> what I do know is that I also won't hand over anything to people whose claims I simply cannot verify, it would be rather stupid for me to do that
17:39 < brabo> Fuchs: quite so
17:39 < moonshin1> what would lilo have wanted
17:39 < milehigh-> good point Fuchs
17:39 < slimdaddy> that claim + frantic typos said quite a lot
17:39 -!- jescis-Desktop1 [~jescis@c-66-177-166-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
17:39 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #freenode
17:39 < zoite> amdj, you can send it to me, i'm very good at storing private information
17:39 < terpri> Fuchs, i fully agree, if anyone should "own" freenode it's the volunteers who've kept it running for 20+ years
17:39 < terpri> rip lilo
17:39 < milehigh-> WWLD
17:39 < niko> indeed Fuchs
17:39 < another> amdj: three letters rule?
17:39 -!- mode/#freenode [+o niko] by ChanServ
17:40 -!- jescis-Desktop1 [~jescis@c-66-177-166-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #freenode
17:40 <@amdj> another: ?
17:41 -!- \mSg [~mSg@irchelp/msg] has joined #freenode
17:41 < mplsCorwin> in fact, and I'm not any sort of barrister or anything, I'd think the less done to associate ones self with the claimant the better; the assertion here is that branding is secondary.  freenode irc network is mostly known to it's users in terms of what it actually is and provides, and not as a factor of any forces external to what it actually provides (e.g. chat itself is what provides freenode identity).  Even the repos and servers
17:41 < mplsCorwin> access is less foundational.
17:41 < nitrix> Freenode is more than the staff though. The community will pick up elsewhere with or without them. There are always people in need of help and people willing to help.
17:41 -!- nemo_ [~nemo@unaffiliated/nemo/x-0958849] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
17:41 < another> When entering a new "job" write three letters: First letter: Blame your predecessor. Second: Promise structural changes. Third: Resignation.
17:42 < [smlckz]> another: ahh
17:42 <@amdj> oh, hadn't heard that before.
17:42 < mplsCorwin> The main thing that freenode is is the users, whether they have an o-line or not.
17:42 < another> hmm.. i might have mixed something up there. it's from a joke i read once
17:43 -!- another is now known as onother
17:43  * onother has o-line now
17:43 < [smlckz]> do the volunteers have any signed paperwork with this ''freenode ltd''?
17:43 <@jess> no
17:43 <@kline> no
17:43 <@niko> no
17:43 <@Fuchs> onother: if you were onotter you'd be cuter
17:43 <@FireFly> not to my knowledge
17:43 <@FireFly> (so, no)
17:43 <@jess> these bastards don't even know my real name!
17:43 <@jess> :)
17:43 < onother> lol
17:43 <@mniip> no
17:43 < Humbedooh> is it hunter2?
17:44 <@jess> SHIT
17:44 -!- onother is now known as another
17:44 < MIF> lol
17:44 < Thedarkb-Desktop> So, the only real power they have over the network is ownership of the domain.
17:44 -!- MJCD [uid193337@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fzyptrovhvdbyrlz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
17:44 < milehigh-> wow blasting her password like that
17:44 <@Fuchs> Jessica Sophie Porter, go to your room!
17:44 < SexIsBad2TheBone> the opposite of FireFly is waterfall ehhhahaha
17:44 < milehigh-> for shame
17:44 <@jess> OI
17:44 < qyliss> I only see *******
17:44 < evilrails> You don't sign an NDA anymore?
17:44 < fluix> that depends on legal stuff that isn't figured out yet
17:44 <@jess> HOW DO YOU KNOW
17:44 -!- Saphir [~fuegoleon@unaffiliated/fugeoleon] has joined #freenode
17:44 < Humbedooh> The Shadow knows....
17:44 < MIF> evilrails: they never signed a NDA
17:44 < milehigh-> did anyone ?
17:44 < evilrails> Huh
17:44 < another> jess: I assume that name to be potentialy fake
17:44 <@FireFly> SexIsBad2TheBone: I'm not even going to work out the opposite of your nick, but I'd appreciate fewer silly highlights :p
17:45 <@jess> freenode actually never has had an NDA
17:45 < milehigh-> i thought there was one person who wasnt admitting if they did or now
17:45 < milehigh-> not *
17:45 <@jess> there's a joke NDA floating around though, it's very funny
17:45 < SexIsBad2TheBone> sorry
17:45 < evilrails> Someone lied to me a very long time ago
17:45 -!- noctux [~noctux@unaffiliated/noctux] has joined #freenode
17:45 < zoite> evilrails, was it me
17:45 < SexIsBad2TheBone> hihihi
17:45 < LondonNoTrust> I'ma go to the FireFly festival and see Judah Lion
17:45 <@jess> you should have read the NDA a lot closer. it says we can't have mobile phones
17:45 < dzho> ok, so at the very least, this isn't "someone made some lookalike github accounts to troll freenode"
17:45 -!- Yendred [~Yendred@unaffiliated/yendred] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
17:45 < LondonNoTrust> i think it's in september
17:45 -!- tian [~tian2992@fsf/member/tian2992] has joined #freenode
17:45 < nitrix> I'd be impressed if there is any judge that even accept that case beyond hearing. Doesn't stop people from trying though.
17:45 <@FireFly> the silly nda thing is full of things that can't possibly be the case, heh
17:45 < nitrix> Would be nice if Freenode created a precedent scare, like CloudFlare did to the patent trolls.
17:45 < hexa-> sandcat seen hunting flappy birds
17:46 < LondonNoTrust> https://fireflyfestival.com/
17:46 -!- siraben [sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-heuatjnwiiuzaciw] has joined #freenode
17:46 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #freenode
17:46 < hexa-> oh yeah, there was a movie about that on netflix, awesome
17:46 < b_jonas> FireFly: no, it's worse than that, actually it's offical policy for Facebook employees, someone just replaced the obvious references to Facebook with Freenode
17:46 < [smlckz]> now look for the paperworks of infra donors on their donation and talk with them
17:47 -!- lord| [~solenodic@unaffiliated/solenodic] has joined #freenode
17:47 < fluix> let them do what they need to do
17:47 <@jess> i wonder if sponsors will still want to be supporting the network after a hostile takeover by a for profit company
17:47 <@mniip> infra donors do not have paperwork with us
17:47 <@Fuchs> well, nobody does
17:47 <@Fuchs> volunteers don't, sponsors don't, ...
17:48 < LondonNoTrust> They are...The Guards of the Infra
17:48 < locotus> omg
17:48 < moonshin1> it's a bad look for a for profit company
17:48 < rasengan> So leave. You already resigned. Stop hurting freenode.
17:48 <@amdj> [smlckz]: it's literally "hey, we like you're network, and we'd like to provide a server for you to use" "ok"
17:48 <@niko> wait are you telling me we are working for free for decades ?
17:48 < rasengan> Everyone else is trying to go about their day.
17:48 < milehigh-> maybe they can sponsor free.node instead
17:48 < locotus> ya tengo tiling
17:48 <@jess> haven't you noticed no one wants you here andrew
17:48 <@Fuchs> niko: sorry to break it to you like that
17:48 < milehigh-> why not just change the name
17:48 < locotus> oops wrong window
17:48 < rasengan> Jess you resigned. You don’t want yourself to be here I guess either? :)
17:48 <@amdj> [smlckz]: occasionally the infra email address will get an invoice for $0, but that's only because of how the accounting systems work at some of them.
17:48 < Remco> niko: It's called *free*node ;)
17:48  * Fuchs checks
17:48 < zoite> rasengan, are you our new boss?
17:49 <@Fuchs> jess is opered and opped, and has a staff cloak
17:49 < rasengan> Zoite no
17:49 <@Fuchs> she doesn't appear resigned to me
17:49 -!- imaginary [~clinch@unaffiliated/clincher] has joined #freenode
17:49 < zoite> who will we be reporting to?
17:49 <@amdj> rasengan: as you've already been told several times, no-one has resigned, and the letters you have were not sent to you by us. wake up.
17:49 -!- GermainZ [~GermainZ@unaffiliated/germainz] has joined #freenode
17:49 < milehigh-> i wouldn't blame anyone for resigning
17:49 <@jess> i drafted a resignation in protest of your stated intentions to seize control of the network from the people that have lovingly run the network
17:49 <@FireFly> I don't think anyone's resigned yet
17:49 < phy1729> Can rasengan just be k-lined so we can go about our day?
17:49 < ecks> i resign
17:49 <@Fuchs> correct, nobody did
17:49 <@Fuchs> okay, now ecks did
17:49 < rasengan> I didn’t cease control. Control was ceased from freenode limited.
17:49 <@niko> for staff shopping ?
17:49 <@Fuchs> we'll be missing him
17:50 < [smlckz]> these donors files their taxes and might report to whom they donated. if they didn't write ''freenode ltd'' there, fine
17:50 <@jess> christel resigned amicably
17:50 -!- Morpheus is now known as Church-
17:50 < [smlckz]> *file
17:50 <@FireFly> oh, well yes
17:50 <@Fuchs> rasengan: as you wrote yourself, freenode limited never had operational control over freenode
17:50 <@FireFly> but that was a while back
17:50 <@Fuchs> I mean, I've been doing this for 10 years, I'd know
17:50  * file found
17:50 <@jess> 2021-03-15 21:21:47 <rasengan> I have not, am not, and will not interfere with the operations of freenode outside of when asked for help [...]10
17:50 <@amdj> [smlckz]: it's not that kind of donation. the sponsors retain ownership of their hardware, and only provide us with use of it.
17:50 -!- Descartes [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/berenerchamion] has joined #freenode
17:50 <@jess> you've surely changed your tune young man
17:50 -!- zutat [4e30bf57@unaffiliated/zutat] has joined #freenode
17:50 < rasengan> Wrong Fuchs. Freenode limited always did. And I helped whenever asked.
17:50 -!- Psy-Q [~psy-q@www.psy-q.ch] has left #freenode ["Back into the void."]
17:50 < ecks> all my homies hate freenode ltd
17:51 <@Fuchs> rasengan: there seems to be your word against, well, the people who ran this network for the past years
17:51 -!- p1c [~Thunderbi@93-38-238-139.ip73.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: p1c]
17:51 < rasengan> Oh ok.
17:51 < rasengan> Let’s see what tomaw has to say.
17:51 < rasengan> :)
17:51 <@Fuchs> rasengan: and oddly enough, I don't remember freenode limited ever giving me any operational orders, and I've been doing freenode work for a decade, and infra work for years
17:51 -!- pseudo [ratbox@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-rtqzozknrxhwejqf] has joined #freenode
17:51 < nitrix> How would a sponsor even cease control of a distributed IRC network? The other nodes would just stop connecting to it, the largest split wins, like bitcoin.
17:51 < zoite> shouldn't it be freenode unlimited
17:52 <@jess> well what's really cool is tomaw found himself in the position he currently is with the agreement of the entire staff base
17:52 <@kline> seize*
17:52 < nitrix> seize, thank you.
17:52 < Greatest> They say rasengan is the true owner of Freenode
17:52 < phy1729> nitrix: freenode isn't run like a historical IRC network
17:52 < nitrix> phy1729, Can you elaborate?
17:52 -!- file [sid178970@asterisk/developer-and-muffin-lover/file] has left #freenode []
17:52 <@Fuchs> nitrix: freenode is centrally ran by freenode staff
17:52 <@Fuchs> nitrix: we don't have per-server admins
17:52 < zoite> rasengan, will you be providing severance packages
17:52 <@Fuchs> and our policies and rules are global
17:53  * vulpine seizes rasengan, places in the naughty box
17:53 -!- eyeoh [~eyeoh@unaffiliated/eyeoh] has joined #freenode
17:53 < moonshin1> anyway as someone (i forget) asked previously:  what problems are the changes rasengan is proposing supposed to solve
17:53 < moonshin1> that is not clear to anybody
17:53 < nitrix> Fuchs, Ah. Yeah that's a pretty big difference. Are the decisions taken democratically by vote or it's always been trust/common sense?
17:53 < ecks> probably not enough blockchain
17:53 < milehigh-> if rasengan can legalize it i'll vote for you
17:53 < ljharb> rasengan: "always", meaning, since 2017?
17:54 <@Fuchs> moonshin1: well, given from the blog post and page we had to remove by what I assume was force:  the democratically elected structure and teams of freenode, plus us collaborating on a new, FOSS ircd
17:54 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@p200300d2670b9500982c0fd39c3471d7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
17:54 < Church-> LondonNoTrust: There's an eternal september joke there with that festival there.
17:54 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has left #freenode ["Bye!"]
17:54 <@Fuchs> moonshin1: but that's only a guess, I'd say rasengan would know more, maybe? I am not aware of problems to solve, mind, it looked like we managed rather well the past years
17:54 < MIF> ^
17:54 -!- grubles [~grubles@gateway/tor-sasl/grubles] has joined #freenode
17:54 < zoite> there have been a lot of netsplits lately
17:54 < slimdaddy> I’ve got some serious Stockholm syndrome and need to be liberated by a corporation
17:55 < b_jonas> except for that one day when there was like a half hour long lag between some servers, yes.
17:55 -!- gtlsgamr [~gtlsgamr@103.200.84.203] has joined #freenode
17:55 <@niko> zoite: the more servers there is rotations, the more netsplit could occurs
17:55 < b_jonas> I still don't understand how that could happen.
17:55 < zoite> we should remove servers then, ideally run it just on 1
17:55 < gtlsgamr> Heyo, I am looking for channels where people discuss TV and movies (preferably international), any suggestions?
17:55 < nitrix> zoite, Call it the single point of success.
17:55 <@amdj> just to clarify on that IRCd point, Fuchs, freenode development effort was being spent on Charybdis upstream while I was still a Charybdis maintainer, since at least early 2020. with that in mind, we did plan to move to Charybdis upstream, but that plan fell apart, so we forked it (again) around September to create Solanum.
17:55 <@amdj> so the work on a replacement IRCd isn't new.
17:55 <@dho> gtlsgamr: /msg alis help list
17:56 < gtlsgamr> alright
17:56 -!- gtlsgamr [~gtlsgamr@103.200.84.203] has left #freenode []
17:56 < Church-> Fuchs: So out of curiosity, what's the process for donating infra anyway vis a vis this net/new net?
17:56 < LondonNoTrust> Church-, are you going to tell the joke or did I miss it?
17:56 < b_jonas> amdj: what? didn't you already replace the IRCd once?
17:56 < fluix> there's no new net yet
17:56 < Church-> LondonNoTrust: You mentioning firefly festival in september.
17:56 < nitrix> Church-, Whatever it was, you can bet it's on hold and going to change now :P
17:56 <@amdj> b_jonas: freenode has been running ircd-seven (an older Charybdis fork) for many years.
17:56 <@Fuchs> Church-: in case of freenode it was usually potential sponsors contacting us, we told them what we'd need, they provided, we pulled the server into our config management and had a test run, and then included it
17:57 < Church-> nitrix: Heh aye. fluix: I'm aware.
17:57 <@mquin> b_jonas: hybrid, dancer, hyperion, ircd-seven, solanum soon(TM)
17:57 < Church-> Fuchs: Got it.
17:57 < LondonNoTrust> Church-, yes, I'm going to go see Judah the Lion a band there ....is that the joke?
17:57 < evilrails> Hyperion was baller
17:57 < evilrails> I miss it
17:57 -!- Nimzowitsch [~nimzo@unaffiliated/nimzowitsch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:57 -!- TrUsT_n1 [~TrUsT_n1@136.37.125.234] has joined #freenode
17:57 -!- Romarain [~Romarain@119.12.203.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:57 < Church-> LondonNoTrust: No just the association with september. :p It would've been a stupid joke even if I teased it out.
17:58 < applegal> why are they interfering with IRC network now? was it because of the fierce competition from discord? now they are trying to remodel IRC to match discord?
17:58 < b_jonas> mquin: ok, I'm young then. I only remember one time when the ircd got replaced, and one when the services got replaced.
17:58 < ptrcmd> how does freenode own the servers donated to it? is it some kind of shared ownership by the freenode staff?
17:58 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #freenode
17:58 <@jess> sponsors own the servers
17:58 <@Fuchs> ptrcmd: the infra team is granted access by means of ssh
17:59 <@Fuchs> ptrcmd: the sponsors own them, but lose access as well (well, direct access, I assume they can walk to their basement and just shut it down)
17:59 < MIF> I imagine keys?
17:59 < LondonNoTrust> Church-, I didn't give you access to my sub conscious so you won't tease anything about september out of me.  I see what you did there.
17:59 < Church-> heh
17:59 <@jess> companies, individuals, etc donate servers to us to run IRC nodes on. the access to those servers is held by the long-term established internal infrastructure team
17:59 <@Fuchs> MIF: no, we all share the same password ;)   Yes, keys.
17:59 <@amdj> ptrcmd: the sponsors (continue to) own them. we just use them. with sponsors whose accounting departments insist on bean counting, we are put on a $0/month or $0/year plan.
17:59 -!- uxfi [~uxfi@unaffiliated/uxfi] has joined #freenode
17:59 < Church-> MIF: Nah gotta knock three times and whisper the secret word to Moe.
17:59 < zoite> rasengan, will you be providing freenode staff with new cars?
17:59 < Church-> Then you get in.
17:59 -!- TrUsT_n1 [~TrUsT_n1@136.37.125.234] has quit [Client Quit]
17:59 < barneygale> Why does *one* sponsor walking away present such a problem, then?
17:59 < FLHerne> rasengan: I'm a long-time Freenode FOSS user (see cloak) with no previous involvement in network/op politics. I see the usual netop team united in one position, and you repeatedly putting words in others' mouths that you've been told are false
17:59 <@jess> imagine having a bunch of money and still getting absolutely owned like this
17:59 < fluix> because they're not *walking away*
18:00 <@amdj> barneygale: none of our sponsors are ceasing their arrangement with us.
18:00 <@Fuchs> barneygale: it wouldn't if they walked away, they are claiming ownership of the network, I think
18:00 < toasty_oats> evilrails: what/who was hyperion?
18:00 < FLHerne> rasengan: I don't know who the hell you are, but I'll go with the ops, thanks
18:00 < fluix> whois will tell you
18:00 < fluix> (partially)
18:00 -!- LiftLeft [googolplex@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/googolplexking] has joined #freenode
18:00 < FLHerne> fluix: More rhetorically than that ;-)
18:00 < barneygale> Right, but you have several sponsors providing servers. Unless our glorious new leader controls _all_ the servers?
18:00 < SexIsBad2TheBone> FLHerne: where i know u from?
18:01 < LondonNoTrust> Church-, I'm feeling generous, I'll give you a taste of september...enjoy:
18:01 < LondonNoTrust> https://youtu.be/zEuOkapb-_o
18:01 -!- mzajc [~mzajc@unaffiliated/mzajc] has joined #freenode
18:01 < FLHerne> SexIsBad2TheBone: No idea
18:01 < Church-> LondonNoTrust: The fact this wasn't Earth Wind and Fire
18:01 < Church-> For shame
18:01 < toasty_oats> @fluix were you responding to me?
18:02 < nitrix> jess, If it comes down to money, I'm pretty sure the EFF will back Freenode's ass :P
18:02 <@jess> why are your oats toasty
18:02 < fluix> no
18:02 < LondonNoTrust> I picked neil diamond on purpose.  i knew you wanted earth wind and fire
18:02 < LondonNoTrust> i didn't forget
18:02 <@jess> nitrix: i'd love to talk to eff!
18:02 < rasengan> FLHerne: That's your choice.  I appreciate you voicing your opinion and support your cause either way.  If you do find the time in the future to let me know what exactly you're saying I'm "lying" about if I'm understanding your message correctly, that would be appreciated.  That said it's your choice. ;)
18:02 -!- akempgen [~akempgen@195.167.221.138] has joined #freenode
18:02 -!- acheam [~acheam@kisslinux/acheam] has joined #freenode
18:02 < toasty_oats> @jess best kind of oats
18:02 -!- clarjon1 [~clarjon1@unaffiliated/clarjon1] has joined #freenode
18:02 -!- frmus [~frmus@unaffiliated/frmus] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:02 < FLHerne> rasengan: The "you've resigned" schtick
18:02 < SexIsBad2TheBone> FLHerne: are u op in #linux and banned me once?
18:02 -!- lassulus [~lassulus@NixOS/user/lassulus] has joined #freenode
18:03 -!- j`ey [~joey@unaffiliated/jey/x-00002] has joined #freenode
18:03 <@jess> well also the abject fucking bullshit about us forcing christel out
18:03 < barneygale> rasengan: finishing every message with ":)" comes across as condescending, but of course you know that.
18:03 -!- Dimitris [~dimitris@unaffiliated/dimitris] has left #freenode ["Leaving"]
18:03 <@jess> it is fucking low to do that to a former employee Andrew
18:03 <@jess> fucking disgraceful
18:03 < FLHerne> SexIsBad2TheBone: I don't remember that, but you're bloody annoying so I might well have banned you from somewhere :p
18:03 < SexIsBad2TheBone> heh
18:03 < rasengan> barneygale: Sorry for typing how I do. ;/
18:03 <@amdj> barneygale: whether those hardware sponsors will continue to provide their services should anything happen is up to the sponsors.
18:03 -!- MalkbabY [MalkbabY@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/malkbaby] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:04 -!- toasty_oats [~toasty_oa@2605:8d80:6e0:f4c3:e3ae:aedb:17ec:9384] has left #freenode ["Leaving"]
18:04 < barneygale> rasengan: no worries, if you're new to IRC it takes a while to get the hang of the tone of conversation.
18:04 < thoughtcrime> wait, christel is not around here anymore?
18:04 -!- Leonarbro [~Leonet@S01067824af93741c.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #freenode
18:04 < zoite> s/that./that. :)/
18:04 <@Fuchs> thoughtcrime: I'm afraid she resigned a little while ago :/
18:04 -!- toasty_oats [~toasty_oa@2605:8d80:6e0:f4c3:e3ae:aedb:17ec:9384] has joined #freenode
18:04 < rasengan> FLHerne: Ah, yes, those resignations absolutely were circulated and while you may think its proper to resign and rescind such resignation, the damage caused by the slander in the statements is real and the effects last far after the resignations were rescinded.
18:04 -!- MalkbabY [MalkbabY@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/malkbaby] has joined #freenode
18:04 <@jess> https://github.com/freenode/web-7.0/pull/493
18:04 < nitrix> barneygale, rasengan's tone of conversation is "passive-aggresive with smiley faces ;)".
18:04 < FLHerne> rasengan: There was a public comment on HN within minutes of the original post
18:04 < barneygale> nitrix: I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as he seems like an IRC noobie
18:04 < FLHerne> I've seen at least two of the people named tell you the same thing repeatedly
18:04 < barneygale> We were all new once!
18:05 -!- mode/#freenode [+o eir] by ChanServ
18:05 -!- mode/#freenode [-qo *!*@49.36.45.11 eir] by eir
18:05 < rasengan> FLHerne: Again, while I love a world where you can take a mulligan whenever you want, society doesn't work like that.
18:05 < moonshin1> well it's not slander if it's true.
18:05 -!- hrnz [~hrnz@unaffiliated/hrnz] has joined #freenode
18:05 < phy1729> rasengan: why not setup your own network and let the users vote by joining or not
18:05 < rasengan> moonshin1: It's not true.
18:05 <@amdj> rasengan: again, you're wrong. your tirade in here the other day lead people to search for your name plus "freenode", and duckduckgo just happens to have crawled kline's resignation letter as the number 2 result.
18:05 < thoughtcrime> rasengan: you sound edgy, please take some time to relax, buddy
18:05 <@jess> phy1729: he wants to take over another network
18:05 <@jess> snoonet didn't cut it, i guess
18:05 < brabo> phy1729: then he can't strongarm anyone into anything
18:05 < LondonNoTrust> Church-, one more, for shame's sake:
18:05 < LondonNoTrust> https://youtu.be/Fp_P_e1cPOE
18:05 < phy1729> jess: that doesn't sound very democratic of him
18:05 < rasengan> thoughtcrime: This has been going on over a month.
18:06 <@jess> NOT VERY CASH MONEY IF YOU ASK ME
18:06 < joepie91> I wonder how many other people here have witnessed the implosion of LowEndBox/LowEndTalk and recognize just how damn similar this case is, down to the asshole supposed-owner being passive-aggressive-friendly
18:06 < brabo> "we are bringing power back to the people" - meaning himself
18:06 < slimdaddy> ^^
18:06 < MIF> what leaked thing are you talking about?
18:06 <@Fuchs> well, we were bringing power back to the people
18:06 <@jess> https://sand.cat/fiW5QDYXauoKwybL/snoo-takeover.txt
18:06 -!- Romarain [~Romarain@119.12.203.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #freenode
18:06 <@Fuchs> we had elected heads of teams
18:06 < brabo> Fuchs: yes, staff is
18:06 < rasengan> Snoonet is a perfect example of where I have not in any way attempted to affect any kind of change.  I lost my own channels on snoonet due to policy, and didn't protest or even say a word.  I adhered to policy.
18:06 -!- ninjah [uid468311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xxlivifbhrpgtewm] has joined #freenode
18:06 <@Fuchs> what happened to these you can see in my draft
18:06 <@jess> see the log andrew
18:06 -!- benharri [ben@tilde.team/sudoers/ben] has joined #freenode
18:06 < Church-> LondonNoTrust: I aware you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul. :p
18:06 < brabo> but that is the slogan on the company website :p
18:06 <@Fuchs> and that one is in the web archive, so I'm afraid these ones are rather objective
18:06 < phy1729> rasengan: well then if we like you better than the current staff, we'll join there
18:07 < joepie91> "didn't protest when I was removed for violating policy" is a pretty damn low bar for good behaviour
18:07 < brabo> spoiler alert: we won;t
18:07 < nitrix> joepie91, They're more of it nowadays with "cancel culture", but people don't normally get canceled by their own userbase. You'd have to fuck up pretty badly for that.
18:07 < brabo> *won;t
18:07 < Church-> jess: You right now: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/012/308/9cd.jpg
18:07 < zoite> snoonet is a pretty terrible network tbh
18:07 -!- cel [cel@celehner.com] has joined #freenode
18:07 < zoite> remember when they were spying on every user
18:07 < MIF> Fuchs: what draft
18:07 < terpri> brabo, yes that slogan's pretty funny for an org called "imperial family companies"
18:08 < FLHerne> I remember snoonet having some great channels, but most of them seem dead now
18:08 -!- bok [~bok@c-71-232-17-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #freenode
18:08 <@jess> [01:09:43] <prawnsalad> let me put it clearly, Snoonet was sold to LTM. all Snoonet data was sold to LTM a while ago. way before me. there was no autonomous agreement - i have checked, multiple times. i an now explaining all this to you.
18:08 <@jess> man
18:08 < Church-> So one company is buying up all the irc networks (or trying)?
18:08 <@jess> that sounds pretty wank to me
18:08 < applegal> oh so that was rasengan's only intention? to have the highest authority on freenode?
18:08 <@jess> yes
18:08 < Church-> That's not worrying at allll
18:08 < joepie91> applegal: appears so.
18:08  * Church- chuckles "I'm in danger"
18:08 < milehigh-> who the hell is rasengan
18:09 < Church-> I dunno some anime thing or something idk
18:09 <@Fuchs> MIF: the one that got leaked via hacker news and techrights,  https://fuchsnet.ch/privat/fn-resign-letter.txt  basically
18:09 -!- rubenwardy [~rw@minetest/dev/rubenwardy] has joined #freenode
18:09 < LondonNoTrust> In reality, no humans barely even use IRC.  like there's 8 billion people in the world, and like 800 real people on irc, and 80,000 ai's and bots.
18:09 -!- thedragon [thedragon@gateway/vpn/mullvad/thedragon] has joined #freenode
18:09 < LondonNoTrust> it's not even a particularly useful service any more
18:09 < Darren> That.. is an odd bar for any measure of popularity.
18:09 < fluix> what? IRC is definitely useful
18:10 < Umbire> Real [citation needed] hours.
18:10 < zoite> milehigh-, i think he is the new freenode ceo
18:10 < fluix> you're on here after all
18:10 < FLHerne> LondonNoTrust: "800", really?
18:10 < Church-> I mean to a very small subset of folks, but yeah irc is still useful.
18:10 < LondonNoTrust> fluix, well to be honest, im broke
18:10 <@jess> [01:07:18] <prawnsalad> A_Dragon: again, Snoonet is not only snoonet anymore. it hasnt for some time. unfortunately people have communicated this to snoonet staff in past properly. im trying to correct that.
18:10 < LondonNoTrust> and IRC is the cheapest entertainment i can afford
18:10 < LondonNoTrust> it's free.
18:10 <@jess> oh man this log has some fucking gold
18:10 < A_D> `<rasengan> Snoonet is a perfect example of where I have not in any way attempted to affect any kind of change.  I lost my own channels on snoonet due to policy, and didn't protest or even say a word.  I adhered to policy.` Except for swiping servers under staff, forcing access for non-staff people, forcing a network link to a network that has gone nowhere, forcing the staff to hand over the services DB
18:10 <@jess> imagine showing your ass on line
18:10 <@jess> like this
18:10 < nitrix> If you calculate popularity that way, maybe. But the reach of every single individual here within various organizations and open-source projects is probably incalculable.
18:10 < Church-> nitrix: Point yeah
18:10 < rasengan> A_D: Nope, sorry.
18:10 < Church-> Heh
18:10 < Church-> I got my first tech gig here
18:11 < Darren> I think there's a website for that, jess. Most people charge, though. Doing it for free is a bit odd of them, I admit.
18:11 < uxfi> Anyone here knwo channels on where to find work out ?
18:11 < gig> well done!
18:11 < badastronaut> rasengan: you do realize you stand alone here right? no one is on your side, no one believes your words over people who pour their hearts and souls into freenode for decades. if you do this you'll be left with network you don't know how to operate with no help and few servers, left holding the pieces of the thing you destroyed
18:11 < danielcg[m]> showing your ass online is fun
18:11 < Church-> And have gotten others on here hired to my current place
18:11 < A_D> rasengan: Uhh huh. https://web.archive.org/web/20191021113301/https://gist.github.com/prawnsalad/7b3f5929dadc81c39228e373fa0ca569
18:11 < joepie91> [01:00:29] <prawnsalad> A_Dragon: then im sorry to bring the bad news, but snoonet *is* an ltm owned project. i had nothing to do with that. but thats how it is
18:11 <@niko> "oups"
18:11 < badastronaut> there is no outcome where you become a hero and a saviour here. go move irc.com from phase 2, where it's been sitting for years because you ran it into the ground, to show you can do something useful for the community
18:11 < eeeeeta> gotta love the AUDACITY of someone just showing up deciding they have control because they made a limited company
18:11 < milehigh-> oh YOU'RE the asshole? thanks , i'll take note.
18:11 < joepie91> sure is classy to hide behind a fall guy
18:11 < Umbire> uxfi: /msg alis help list
18:11 < gig> hmm i picked a good time to check out this buffer
18:11 < rowbee> rasengan is what a shonen protagonist would sound like over text
18:12 < Church-> rowbee: Pffft
18:12 < Church-> My joke but better
18:12 < Church-> Hey we should buyout irc.com and holdings. Probably what a couple bucks? I'll move the collection plate around a bit.
18:12 < A_D> and don't say "that was pr​awnsalad not me" your employee, your "company", you're responsible.
18:12 < milehigh-> there's obviously more to this than he will ever tell us, the intentions are obviously nefarious so from the bottom of my heart, you can suck our collective asses.
18:12 < A_D> we never did get that promised call with some lawyers over that
18:12 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@p200300d2670b950094429430374addbc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #freenode
18:12 -!- snalty [~Shhh@host31-53-210-159.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in]
18:12 < A_D> or anything else that was promised
18:12 < A_D> just lies
18:12 < rowbee> Church-: thankfully we aren't playing ace attorney and we don't need to point out discrepancies, because there are none
18:13 < Church-> hah
18:13 < joepie91> Church-: might get it in a package deal with Yahoo tbh
18:13 -!- lukeye [~textual@2620:10d:c090:400::5:82fc] has joined #freenode
18:13 < rowbee> and this dumb "but you did resign!!!!!" argument is just funny
18:13 < Humbedooh> so what you're all saying is... https://i.imgur.com/tPyuJU5.png
18:13 < Church-> joepie91: Finally I can get my email back!
18:13 -!- jescis-Desktop1 [~jescis@c-66-177-166-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
18:13 -!- wasted_youth2 [~16189@2600:6c42:6c7f:4409:9590:c432:bed9:28ee] has joined #freenode
18:13 < applegal> rasengan: what are you planning to do with the highest authority? you know you failed to gain the respect from other volunteers and you can't run the operation on your own.
18:13 < zoite> A_D, he also hired rdv, the previous owner of snoonet, which was found to be logging and spying on users private messages to eachother over the network
18:13 < milehigh-> anyway i'm going to sit here with my popcorn and watch this massive dumpster fire you've started, congratulations.
18:13 < rowbee> Church-: i can just imagine someone tapping their foot nervously waiting for people to deop themselves
18:14 < Church-> Heh
18:14 < milehigh-> rasengan: are you at least going to legalize weed for us, mr president
18:14 -!- jescis-Desktop1 [~jescis@c-66-177-166-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #freenode
18:14 < A_D> zoite: oh I know
18:14 -!- CptLuxx [~quassel@about/windows/staff/CptLuxx] has joined #freenode
18:14 < A_D> before my time, mind
18:14 < joepie91> applegal: I'm not sure he realizes that "Freenode" isn't a piece of technical infrastructure, but rather a community which will stay or leave with those who have stewarded it for years
18:14 < A_D> on snoonet when I was staff none of that shit went on
18:14 -!- Blankspace [~asddf@unaffiliated/blankspace] has quit [Quit: why did you ban me]
18:14 < milehigh-> and we're gonna ostracize the shit out of you
18:15 < A_D> rdv also attempted to bribe some prominent freenode community members with oper access on freenode recently
18:15 -!- snalty [~Shhh@host31-53-210-159.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #freenode
18:15 -!- pushcx [~pushcx@lobsters/admin/pushcx] has joined #freenode
18:15 < FLHerne> joepie91: Clearly not
18:15 < nitrix> applegal, Obviously you gain power with forceful tactics, tyranny, extorsion and manipulation. That's what TRUE power is. Not those weak trust, respect & honor things.
18:15 < milehigh-> ah yes that's how you win
18:15 < terpri> rowbee, "ahem...sudo deop yourself!"
18:15 -!- mononote [~mononote@37.162.49.148] has quit [Quit: Zz]
18:15 < A_D> under the name `nirvana` I believe
18:15 < LondonNoTrust> Church-, hey i just want to be clear for the sake of transparency and communicating and all that, like just because i played a song with you about september, I still don't really like the Church at all.  I think the pope is a scam.  So nothing personal we can still do music ok?
18:15 < Ariadne> oh, guys, they want you know the bribe thing was "totally a joke"
18:16 < Ariadne> so you can read their idea of a joke here
18:16 < A_D> but unlike snoonet LTM can't hold the freenode servers hostage, as they don't control them
18:16 < Ariadne> https://distfiles.dereferenced.org/stuff/nirvana-log.txt
18:16 < rowbee> terpri: rasengan is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.
18:16 < milehigh-> they're probably just loser FEDS anyway
18:16 < nitrix> GG, surrender 2021. Jungler diff.
18:16 < milehigh-> GFY
18:16 < terpri> :D
18:16 < Church-> LondonNoTrust: Well that I just can't stand. Viva la pope-guy!
18:16 <@niko> rowbee: haha
18:16 < Church-> rowbee: kek
18:16 < Church-> That deserves a bash.org submit
18:16 < terpri> ^
18:16 < mason> Wow, what a fascinating read. This is kind of the model the world follows today - a monied minority pushing for control of a commons.
18:17 < Ariadne> i cannot wait to dependon a network where people who ask questions get bribes
18:17 < Ariadne> instead of answers
18:17 < milehigh->  A NEW WORLD ORDER
18:17 <@amdj> rowbee: the first time I ever saw that message (I was like 15) I shit myself, wondering who it was going to be reported to. turns out it was me.
18:17 < FLHerne> A_D: That's bloody ironic considering the "no mulligans" line
18:17 < Ariadne> its gonna be great
18:17 < FLHerne> Sorry, Ariadne^
18:17 < nitrix> mason, They don't understand "control".
18:17 -!- satanist is now known as pcworld
18:17 -!- fe80 [~fe80@gateway/tor-sasl/fe80] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:17 < milehigh-> Control only works if we go with your bullsheit
18:17 < terpri> my only bash.org entry: http://bash.org/?81744 , 'twould be an honor to show up in another one
18:18 < nitrix> The king is only a true king if he doesn't want to be.
18:18 < eeeeeta> [23:08:52] <nirvana> dont tell me that sweet revenge of a kline /fuckyou - just ONE to those people who dissed on charybdis
18:18 < eeeeeta> [23:08:59] <nirvana> wouldn't make you feel good
18:18 < rasengan> Ariadne: You and I spoke directly and as I told you before, others words dont represent mine.  You and I had our conversation.  Take from it what you will.
18:18 < another> amdj: not true. https://xkcd.com/838/
18:18 -!- pcworld is now known as satanist
18:18 < eeeeeta> top kek
18:18 < applegal> I don't think freenode can be maintained by one person... he will only force everyone to the next server.... why not just give him a @.. will he be happy with that
18:18 < terpri> (i was bpt back then)
18:18 <@amdj> another: LOL.
18:18 < rowbee> amdj: same tbh
18:18 < A_D> FLHerne: yep :D
18:18 < Ariadne> yeah we did rasengan
18:18 < Ariadne> would everyone like to read that log too?
18:18 < eeeeeta> clearly this is the kind of person with advanced emotional intelligence we want running IRC networks
18:18 < A_D> oh and theres the other mtgox person involved as well
18:18 < milehigh-> that reminds me of a line in that movie Dragonheart "the peasants are revolting, king!" King: "They've always been revolting!"
18:18 < rowbee> Ariadne: yes!
18:18 < rowbee> give the audience what they want
18:18 < rasengan> ^
18:19 < Darren> rasengan: Mind setting out the legal framework for your proposed changes please? Happy to take a look. :)
18:19 < rasengan> I'm cool with it.  Go ahead.
18:19 < A_D> `[19:18:07] <rasengan> Ariadne: You and I spoke directly and as I told you before, others words dont represent mine.  You and I had our conversation.  Take from it what you will.` "Other words don't represent mine" words from people in your employ representing you do EXACTLY represent you. Don't deflect
18:19 < barneygale> why is rasengan rping as a bond villain. I thought RP was against the rules
18:19 < j`ey> rasengan: is there anything legal currently going on?
18:19 < rowbee> hol up i've got popcorn in the micro
18:19 -!- goldfish [~goldfish@88.97.31.145] has joined #freenode
18:19 < milehigh->  shit i hope you made enough
18:19 < rasengan> Darren: Yes, i will have that shortly.  Let me get back to it.
18:19 < mason> This is interesting. I'm betting this shows up in some future scholarly works, today's #freenode chatter. Future historians will relate it to the big picture, and students will look on in awe at their primitive forebears. Heh. Anyway, carry on. And thanks to the staff who've been doing this right for many years.
18:19 < Ariadne> https://distfiles.dereferenced.org/stuff/rasengan-log.txt
18:19 < Church-> terpri: Heh the only bash.org I can find with me in it: http://bash.org/?963026
18:19 < joepie91> rasengan: "other words don't represent me" is not a very credible claim from someone who has clearly used other people as a fall guy before, ref. the prawnsalad case
18:20 < Church-> There's another one somewhere involving a cock-ring
18:20 < Darren> rasengan: Are you suggesting there that you've kicked off changes without understanding the legal framework behind them?
18:20 < cel> hello, i just heard about this situation via the #hackerspaces channel. i wish to express my support and appreciation for the freenode volunteers. i hope the freenode project can continue as a democratically run community platform.
18:20 -!- fe80 [~fe80@gateway/tor-sasl/fe80] has joined #freenode
18:20 < milehigh-> wow you're starting to sound a little Trumpy there
18:20 < terpri> Church-, lol
18:20 < Church-> Sounds pretty not-cash money Darren
18:20 <@Fuchs> cel: thank you :)
18:20 < A_D> Darren: Nah no one would be so short sighted
18:20 -!- Md [~md@freenode/staff/md] has joined #freenode
18:20 -!- mode/#freenode [+o Md] by ChanServ
18:20 < A_D> that'd be silly
18:20 < A_D> ohwait
18:20 < milehigh-> sounds pretty credit-debt money to me
18:20 -!- Zooker [~Thunderbi@dhcp-96-191.lavalle.mwt.net] has joined #freenode
18:20 < applegal> Darren: is rasengan getting a lawyer?
18:20 < milehigh-> or whatever the opposite of that is
18:20 -!- vkareh [~vkareh@mate/developer/vkareh] has joined #freenode
18:21 < Darren> applegal: I have no idea, I'm an interested bystander.
18:21 < Umbire> Yeah, here's hoping Freenode can remain for the community, by the community.
18:21 < Darren> But seeking legal advice would seem to be a prudent course of action, I would have thought.
18:21 <@Fuchs> Umbire: doing our very best here
18:21 -!- mIk3_08 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/mik3-08/x-1549088] has quit [Quit: mIk3_08]
18:21 < Church-> milehigh-: The opposite is my coke-addled uncle Larry in the Pocanoes
18:21 < milehigh-> if you're getting a lawyer to have control over freenode i hope that lawyer explains to you what an insolent little shit you are and that you can't just assume supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you
18:21 -!- stree [~stree@68.36.8.116] has quit [Quit: Caught exception]
18:21 < Church-> He's kinda a lawyer but not (anymore at least).
18:21 <@jess> hey umbs
18:21 < voidpi> rasengan: so, what corporation is your master, can you reveal that?
18:21 < Ariadne> [11:20:02] <Darren> rasengan: Are you suggesting there that you've kicked off changes without understanding the legal framework behind them?
18:21 < A_D> even if someone claims to be a lawyer, remember that they're not YOUR lawyer and while they may not lie, they also may not tell the whole truth
18:21 < Umbire> Finding that funnier than I should have.
18:21  * launchd blinks
18:22 < Umbire> Hey Jess.
18:22 -!- stree [~stree@68.36.8.116] has joined #freenode
18:22 -!- SuperMYL [~xkass@ip-205-161-22-79.nckcn.com] has joined #freenode
18:22 < launchd> boy did i miss a lot
18:22 < Ariadne> i mean, he didn't send his brightest
18:22 < applegal> Darren: Don't we have many lawyers here on freenode? maybe we can find one to help read the conditions set by rasengan
18:22 < mplsCorwin> wait. tarts, swords *and* olines now?
18:22 < Umbire> launchd: Likewise!
18:22 -!- pntaylor [~quassel@ppp121-45-199-207.cbr-trn-nor-bras38.tpg.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
18:22 < milehigh-> haha
18:22 < Church-> Quick to r/legaladvice
18:22 < Ariadne> one could certainly theorize that other parts of the execution might be equally lacking
18:22 < milehigh-> ohh man if reddit gets involved
18:22 < milehigh-> that could be interesting
18:22 < rowbee> back, what did i miss
18:22 < Ariadne> so anyway, mr. CEO of freenode
18:22 < Darren> A_D: Yes, quite. I'm particularly interested in the jurisdiction question.
18:23 < milehigh-> do you have popcorn
18:23 < rowbee> yes
18:23  * milehigh- holds out an empty bowl
18:23 < milehigh-> pls2
18:23 < rasengan> I think this channel is not being used for the intended purpose properly.  I want you all to be able to say your piece to and about me.  I will be in the freenode-staff-discussion channel.
18:23 < rowbee> /dcc milehigh- popcorn2.obj
18:23 < Church-> lol
18:23 < milehigh-> ty
18:23 <@Fuchs> this channel is, among other things, for discussing the freenode network
18:23 <@jess> scurry away
18:23 < A_D> Hahahahahaha
18:23 < launchd> don’t use dcc. they’re gonna hack you.
18:23 < milehigh-> ok rasengan , might wanna grab that tail between your legs
18:23 < Darren> rasengan: That's fine, but we're going to continue with discussions until and unless a channel staffer says otherwise.
18:23 <@Fuchs> I'd say it's very appropriate to have that discussion in here
18:23 < milehigh-> fucking loser
18:23 < A_D> run into a channel you can ban people in, suuure
18:23 < Ariadne> if you would like to do right by this community, you would hand the freenode domain over to a trusted organization like FSF or Linux Foundation or whatever
18:23 < A_D> god thats comical
18:23 -!- tos9 [~tos9@python/site-packages/tos9] has left #freenode []
18:23 < rowbee> shit, they're gonna find out my ip is 127.0.0.1
18:23 < A_D> you don't want to have this discussion in public?
18:23 <@jess> rasengan: did you get permission from the freenode group contact to register that channel?
18:23  * amdj wonders if rasengan created it in the correct namespace (##)
18:23 < Ariadne> but this is really about having IRC by the balls
18:23 < A_D> a discussion YOU started in public
18:23 <@jess> otherwise i might have to pull that back from you
18:23 -!- ExiledJ [~ExiledJ@gateway/tor-sasl/exiledj] has joined #freenode
18:23 < A_D> god thats comical
18:24 < A_D> jess: HAHAHAHAHAHA
18:24 -!- pe [~p@216.53.broadband7.iol.cz] has joined #freenode
18:24 < eeeeeta> hahahaha
18:24 < launchd> that’s against Terms of Use. take it over
18:24 < rasengan> jess: Please don't do that.  Thank you.
18:24 < Ariadne> how about k-line the terrorist
18:24 < milehigh-> jess: lmao
18:24 < A_D> please try again in ##freenode-staff-discussion
18:24 < milehigh-> ok that was great
18:24 < phy1729> rasengan: how about we vote on it
18:24 <@jess> pwease 🥺👉👈
18:24 < evil> !votemap
18:24 < Church-> rasengan he was elected to lead! Not to read! https://i.redd.it/s8104omzbd0z.jpg
18:24 < milehigh-> wow i am having deja vu
18:24 < Church-> And with that
18:24 -!- hoistbypetard [hoistbypet@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe50:6ee6] has joined #freenode
18:24 < Church-> Time to get drugs put in me
18:24 < Umbire> Christ almighty, even when I fuck up because I'm in my feelings (like I did recently) I know when to cut my losses.
18:24 < Ariadne> go buy yourself into the crown prince family with stolen mt. gox bitcoin money
18:24 < Church-> Church- out!
18:24 < Ariadne> nobody gives a shit
18:25 < milehigh-> i'm gonna need some drugs after this too
18:25 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #freenode ["O bella ciao bella ciao bella ciao, ciao, ciao."]
18:25 < Umbire> Oh goodie, shitcoins involved in this too?
18:25 < A_D> Umbire: oh yes
18:25 < A_D> various crypto attempts and btc are involved
18:25 -!- pntaylor [~quassel@ppp121-45-199-207.cbr-trn-nor-bras38.tpg.internode.on.net] has joined #freenode
18:25 < barneygale> Ariadne: interesting log, bit odd to be developing a public governance structure in private though?
18:25 -!- P_B [~subprime@unaffiliated/subprime] has joined #freenode
18:25 < Ariadne> barneygale: yeah i know, right
18:25 < nitrix> Ariadne, Nice conversation. Seems to me the question of who owns the domain got deflected though. Was that ever answered?
18:25 -!- vifon [~vifon@ranger/vifon] has joined #freenode
18:25 -!- Tamara [~Tamara@unaffiliated/tamara] has joined #freenode
18:26 < Ariadne> nitrix: oh i can answer that
18:26 < Umbire> Glorious techno-capital, also known as "corpo shit but with more computers".
18:26 < Ariadne> christel threw us all under the bus and gave the domain over to mr. "CEO of freenode" over there
18:26 -!- SuperMYL [~xkass@ip-205-161-22-79.nckcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:26 < rasengan> It wasn't in private.  We attempted to do it with tomaw.
18:26 < rasengan> He is very well aware of it.
18:26 -!- qwedfg [~qwedfg@194.177.28.161] has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in]
18:26 -!- Kalov [~Thunderbi@179.56.117.154] has joined #freenode
18:27 < rasengan> When he asked me if he could be the owner of the domain, my response was "I want a decentralized entity to control freenode."
18:27 < nitrix> Ariadne, Fuck, that's as bad as I thought.
18:27 < eeeeeta> rasengan: but evidently you didn't involve the people who actually operate the network right now
18:27 < rasengan> eeeeeta: tomaw holds himself out to be head of staff, so yes, I did.
18:27 -!- Alexendoo [~Alex@macleod.io] has joined #freenode
18:27 < milehigh-> can we k-line him lol
18:27 -!- qwedfg [~qwedfg@194.177.28.161] has joined #freenode
18:27 <@Fuchs> gee, right now freenode is a decentralized entity of volunteers that controls freenode
18:27 < Ariadne> ^
18:27 <@Fuchs> and has been
18:27 -!- CordialCatto [cordialcat@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/cordialcatto] has joined #freenode
18:27 <@Fuchs> for, like, 20 years
18:27 < Ariadne> nah fuchs
18:27 <@niko> BREAKING NEWS
18:27 < Ariadne> rasengan is CEO of freenode
18:27 < badastronaut> rasengan: don't you wish you had power here so you could silence everyone who is absolutely raking you over the coals right now?
18:27 < rasengan> No.
18:27 < eeeeeta> rasengan: I didn't think there was a head of staff who speaks on behalf of the rest of them
18:27 -!- melgust [~melgust@45.77.199.154] has joined #freenode
18:27 <@amdj> rasengan: tomaw doesn't claim to be anything. christel resigned and we (all, collectively) elected tomaw to the head of staff position. tomaw had nothing to do with it. if you're going to keep up with these lies I'm going to mute you.
18:27 < rasengan> eeeeeta: Tell that to tomaw.
18:28 < FLHerne> rasengan: The table of organisation in your head doesn't seem to map to how the network's actually operated
18:28 < FLHerne> Or who does it
18:28 < zoite> rasengan, can I be assistant regional manager?
18:28 < eeeeeta> rasengan: ah, but you're the one trying to claim control here, not tomaw
18:28 < rasengan> amdj: Not lies, and don't mute me.
18:28 < rasengan> I'm not trying to claim control.
18:28 <@Fuchs> as said, the /people page and the blog post are well archived
18:28 < A_D> You have
18:28 < P_B> nah, give him more rope, amdj
18:28 <@niko> where you on staff meetings ? odds
18:28 -!- jescis-Desktop1 [~jescis@c-66-177-166-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:28 < A_D> in this channel
18:28 < A_D> before
18:28 < rasengan> I prevented him from taking control and suggested creating a decentralized entity to own the network.
18:28 < Ariadne> rasengan: then hand the domain over to a reputable org
18:28 <@Fuchs> the people of freenode elected teams and heads
18:28 < eeeeeta> rasengan: a few days ago you instructed the freenode staff to give kevinp admin access
18:28 <@Fuchs> someone, I'd have to assume you, had us remove that democratic process
18:29 < eeeeeta> rasengan: that sounds like taking control to me
18:29 <@Fuchs> and you started asking staffers to hand you access over
18:29 <@Fuchs> which we obviously can't
18:29 -!- xander [~xander@unaffiliated/xander] has joined #freenode
18:29 <@Fuchs> since we have absolutely no way to verify your claims
18:29 -!- legoktm [~quassel@wikipedia/Legoktm] has joined #freenode
18:29 < slimdaddy> zoite assistant _to_ the regional manager*
18:29 < Ariadne> rasengan: do you need help with this?  i can get you in touch with anyone at any reputable org, they all return my phone calls i assure you
18:29 <@Fuchs> so ... uh ... it does look a bit like it was the people who ran it, and you are trying to take control, at least to uninformed me
18:29 < launchd> to randomly replace staff with your own is grossly disrespectful to the tireless work that they put into making this network run well
18:29  * eeeeeta just doesn't really understand what the plan was
18:29 -!- specing [~specing@unaffiliated/specing] has joined #freenode
18:30 < rasengan> Ariadne: I've spoke to many.  I'm going to be refraining from communicating in here since amdj says he is going to mute me.  I'm in the freenode-staff-discussion channel.  If you don't wish to converse with me thats fine.  Enjoy talking about me.