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Exclusive / Top European Candidate in Interview: Does the EU Need Its Own Nuclear Weapons, Ms. Barley?
Katarina Barley is the SPD's top candidate for the European elections. She knows: Difficult times are ahead for the EU – and uncomfortable questions in security policy.
Ms. Barley, how old, male, and technocratic is European social democracy?
What prompts you to ask this question?
Nicolas Schmit, your top candidate for the European elections, is 70 years old, EU Commissioner for Social Affairs, was previously a minister, ambassador, and top official in Luxembourg.
Nicolas Schmit is a trained diplomat. Being able to navigate the diplomatic floor skillfully is one of the most important skills to become President of the EU Commission. Moreover, he is Luxembourgish. Luxembourgers have always understood how to bring together the different political cultures in Europe. Think of Jean-Claude Juncker or Jean Asselborn.
You also sought the EU-wide top candidacy, right?
No. We think of Europe as a whole: With Olaf Scholz, we have a head of government with a leading role in the EU, with Nicolas Schmit a labor and social expert, and with me the strong voice in the Parliament. The three of us harmonize well with each other, unlike Ursula von der Leyen, Manfred Weber, and Friedrich Merz.
You've been a Member of the European Parliament for five years. What is your greatest legislative success during this time?
As Vice-President, I do less legislative work than other deputies. Overall, I'm proud to have hit autocrats like Viktor Orbán where it hurts them: in the wallet.
But you would have liked to go stricter against Orbán or the former Polish government, right?
Absolutely. The Commission has used the instrument of a lawsuit before the European Court of Justice far too rarely.
The EP has 14 Vice-Presidents, you're one of them. Why does it need 14 Vice-Presidents? The Bundestag manages with five Vice-Presidents.
Vice-Presidents in the Bundestag only hold this office. For us, the office comes in addition to legislative work. We also do not receive an additional salary or a driver. So, we do not cost the taxpayer a cent more.
As SPD's top candidate, you focus on the threats to democracy and the “fight against the right.” Why don't you prioritize bread-and-butter issues, things that affect citizens' wallets, instead?
We do that. For the SPD, it's crucial that the working middle class is relieved. In Europe, for example, we can address this through energy prices. At the same time, we see hundreds of thousands in Germany taking to the streets for democracy and against right-wing populism and extremism. I have been committed to this cause for many years, warning and pointing out what is happening in Europe.
Your election program has few concrete statements, no issue like the SPD had in the federal election campaign in 2021 with the minimum wage. Why do you refrain from making concrete demands that can be succinctly printed on posters?
Wait for our posters! Europe often works more indirectly than national politics. Just one example: There is a European minimum wage directive, but it does not result in a specific hourly wage. In Germany, this directive strengthens collective bargaining agreements – hence the unions that negotiate good wages.
The SPD harbors the "vision of a European army," stated somewhat vaguely in your program. When will it be time?
As soon as possible. But we Social Democrats are realists. It still takes time. We start now with the European Sky Shield Initiative, the joint surveillance of airspace, or the joint procurement of arms in Europe.
We've been hearing that in Berlin for ten years.
True. Many member states fight for their national arms industry. But we have very different military traditions, for example in Germany, the Bundeswehr as a parliamentary army.
This parliamentary reservation excludes the majority decisions in foreign and security policy that you aim for, right?
That's a problem. There are three possibilities for these majority decisions: the others adapt, Germany gets a special role, or it changes the Basic Law, thus abolishing the parliamentary reservation. That needs to be discussed.
Should the EU pursue a new free trade agreement with the USA?
We need more trade agreements, for example with many countries often summarized as the global South. As the West, we must be careful not to appear too arrogant. In the Mercosur negotiations, some partners still missed equal footing. The USA, on the other hand, is much more oriented towards the Pacific.
Has the EU slept through the possibly soon ending presidency of Joe Biden in trade policy?
The talks are ongoing, but the USA's interest is limited. They are currently not negotiating free trade agreements with any country. Unfortunately, even under Biden, the USA contributes to the World Trade Organization not functioning.
Why is the trade agreement Ceta with Canada still not finalized?
After a rocky start, there is a provisional agreement, now implemented to 90 percent. For the remaining ten percent, the approval of all member states is needed. So far, 17 of 27 have agreed.
The traffic light coalition blocked the EU Supply Chain Act due to concerns from the FDP. How big is the damage? Should the Chancellor have used his directive authority?
For the FDP, blocking EU projects is unfortunately a tactic, previously with the Platform Directive, the initiative against violence against women, or the combustion engine ban. The FDP always throws a wrench in the works at the last minute. It's an election campaign strategy.
Again: Should the Chancellor have used his directive authority?
You know the coalition agreement: If one partner disagrees, we abstain. Hubertus Heil recently approached the FDP again, unfortunately without success. In Brussels, everyone knows the FDP is a problem.
With EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen (CDU), Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann (FDP), Terry Reintke (Greens), and Carola Rackete (Left), you have prominent competitors. With whom would you most like to govern?
So far in the EU, we have a coalition of the political center: Social Democrats, Conservatives, Greens, Liberals. The European election is about whether the coalition of the center in the EU remains or whether it turns into a coalition of Conservatives, Liberals, and Right-wing Extremists. So, it's about the fundamentals of Europe. Right-wing extremists already have too much influence in Europe. Conservatives must not give them even more power.
Do you really see the European People's Party (EPP), to which CDU and CSU belong, and the Liberals, ready to join forces with right-wing extremists?
Conservatives are already forming coalitions with right-wing extremists, for example in Sweden, Finland, and Italy. In the Netherlands, the Liberals opened the door to right-wing extremists ten days before the election. This danger is real. The opposite assurances from the EPP and Liberals must be implemented in practice. Unfortunately, they have too often voted together with the right-wing extremists in parliament.
Do you really consider such a scenario possible?
Manfred Weber from the EPP always asserts the opposite. I wish it were so. But I'm not sure. How can one form coalitions with the Sweden Democrats or the party "The Finns" while claiming to stand for the rule of law? The EPP has a real credibility problem.
It also seems that Weber wants to include the Fratelli d'Italia, the successor party of the Italian Fascists under Giorgia Meloni, in the conservative party family. For me, as a Social Democrat, fascism is a no-go. Those who want to stand firmly against fascism should vote for the SPD on June 9.
If you want to keep a German as Commission President, you have to vote for the CDU, right?
If you want a strong leadership team, you also have to vote for the SPD. We offer an axis: a strong national leader, Olaf Scholz, a strong Commission President, Nicolas Schmit, and me as a strong parliamentary leader.
You want to campaign with the least popular Chancellor in decades.
Olaf Scholz enjoys high esteem in Europe and internationally. Mrs. von der Leyen first did not want and then could not stand up to Mr. Orbán, this authoritarian autocrat. You feel the influence of Olaf Scholz in Ukraine aid and other issues.
Will Germany's most popular politician, Defense Minister Boris Pistorius (SPD), support you in the campaign?
I would be pleased if Boris Pistorius appears in the European election campaign. He is very popular in Germany and Europe for good reasons.
Is von der Leyen a weak Commission President?
Ursula von der Leyen allowed for too long that her party family praised and supported Orbán. This is about the foundation of the EU. She did not stop him either. In the end, he wasn't kicked out but left the EPP on his own initiative.
What happens to Europe if the USA as a weapon supplier to Ukraine completely falls through in the future?
Should that really happen, Europe will have to take on this responsibility. We must take Putin's threats seriously and act accordingly. When Putin publicly doubts the territorial integrity of Poland and Lithuania, it shows how vigilant we must be.
Donald Trump threatens, after a reelection, not to protect delinquent NATO partners. Does the EU need its own nuclear weapons?
Currently, nuclear deterrence for Europe lies with NATO. As NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg rightly noted, it remains in the Americans' interest to provide this significantly. Given Donald Trump's recent statements, we can no longer rely on that. On the way to a European army, this can also become a topic.
In the 2019 European election, you achieved 15.8 percent with the SPD. Now, in polls, you are sometimes even below this record low. What is your election goal on June 9?
A really very good result for Social Democracy. Our competencies are in demand. People are demonstrating for issues I have been passionate about for years.
20 percent for the SPD?
As much as possible!