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What would you like to do?
You appear to be creating a new IDE...
You appear to be advocating a new:
[ ] cloud-hosted [ ] locally installable [ ] web-based [ ] browser-based [ ] language-agnostic
[ ] language-specific IDE. Your IDE will not succeed. Here is why it will not succeed.
You appear to believe that:
[ ] Syntax highlighting is what makes programming difficult
[ ] Garbage collection is free
[ ] Computers have infinite memory
[ ] Nobody really needs:
[ ] a REPL [ ] debugger support [ ] a local filesystem
[ ] to interact with code not written in your IDE's preferred language
[ ] The entire world speaks 7-bit ASCII
[ ] Scaling up to large software projects will be easy
[ ] Convincing programmers to adopt a new IDE will be easy
[ ] Convincing programmers to adopt a language-specific IDE will be easy
[ ] Programmers love learning new keybindings
[ ] There is only one operating system and it is
[ ] OS X [ ] Windows [ ] Linux [ ] iOS [ ] Android [ ] the DOM
Unfortunately, your IDE (has/lacks):
[ ] vi keybindings
[ ] emacs keybindings
[ ] Syntax highlighting
[ ] User-configurable indentation
[ ] Macros
[ ] Written in JavaScript
[ ] but only JSON
[ ] Written in a scripting language you made up
[ ] which is a Lisp
[ ] A windowing system
[ ] Version control
[ ] Only using git [ ] only using [ ] not using git
[ ] using an RCS of your own devising
[ ] Its own platform-independent look-and-feel
[ ] that was designed by a programmer
[ ] based on yesterday's design fads
[ ] applied inconsistently
[ ] A look and feel specific to one operating system
[ ] that was last widely used in 1989
[ ] and was known to cause seizures
The following philosophical objections apply:
[ ] Programmers should not need to understand CSS to change their font
[ ] The most significant program written using your IDE is itself
[ ] The most significant program written using your IDE isn't even itself
[ ] Graphical programming presumes programmers can draw pictures better
than they can type words
[ ] The implementation is closed-source
[ ] covered by patents [ ] not owned by you
[ ] The DOM is not an application framework
[ ] The name of your IDE makes it impossible to find on Google
[ ] Your IDE assumes JavaScript can be made infinitely fast
[ ] You seem to think static analysis is worthless
Your implementation has the following flaws:
[ ] JavaScript is not faster than C, C++, or Java
[ ] The DOM is not a windowing framework
[ ] It crashes on any file larger than 32k
[ ] You provide no way for users to run the program they are editing
[ ] You require the user to check in code before it can be run
[ ] The IDE crashes if you look at it funny
[ ] You don't seem to understand basic optimization techniques
[ ] You think a single string is an acceptable data type for a text editor
Additionally, your marketing has the following problems:
[ ] Unsupported claims of increased productivity
[ ] Unsupported claims of greater "ease of use"
[ ] Obviously faked screenshots
[ ] No one really believes that your IDE is faster than:
[ ] vi [ ] emacs [ ] Eclipse [ ] Visual Studio [ ] IntelliJ [ ] Notepad
[ ] Rejection of orthodox user interface design without justification
[ ] Rejection of usability principles without justification
[ ] Rejection of established platform conventions without justification
[ ] Rejection of basic user interaction without justification
Taking the wider ecosystem into account, I would like to note that:
[ ] Your example workflow would be one key command in: _______________________
[ ] We already have an IDE in the browser
[ ] We already have an IDE that can be scripted using
[ ] Python [ ] JavaScript [ ] A Lisp [ ] Lua
[ ] You have reinvented vi but worse
[ ] You have reinvented emacs but worse
[ ] You have reinvented TextMate but worse
[ ] You have reinvented Eclipse but worse
[ ] You have reinvented Notepad but worse
[ ] You have reinvented Notebad better, but that's still no justification
[ ] You have reinvented ed but non-ironically
In conclusion, this is what I think of you:
[ ] You have some interesting ideas, but this won't fly.
[ ] This is a bad IDE, and you should feel bad for creating it.
[ ] Programming in this IDE is an adequate punishment for inventing it.


jalcine commented Mar 24, 2014


Lots of good points but what's to be done then? Is the answer to not make a new IDE?

I am an IDE ( maker.

I think the solution is to create more focused developer tools. The generic approach employed by the likes of Eclipse comes at a cost. Basically if you are an IDE that tries to be all things to all people you end up not really serving anyone well, in other words the best you can do is provide cookie-cutter solutions.

jbenet commented Mar 24, 2014

Versions of this have always applied to creating editors -- or for that matter, any new {language, system, product}. And yet, new ones are created all the time, some even become widely successful. Your finality is drastically overstated, and fundamentally negative in value.

Is this why Eclipse failed?

Needs another point under "You appear to believe that:"

[ ] OS X / Windows / Haiku / Linux / BSD / Android / iOS is the only operating system

I made an operating system including IDE and compiler. TempleOS

I got a language from God, HolyC.

It is a sure thing -- God designed it. It is divine intellect.

I can't believe I get to leave a comment next the to the LoseTheOS guy

malkia commented Mar 25, 2014

Add to this list - good window docking system, and by good I mean Visual Studio, because what's built-in Qt is not enough, and while QT Creator is great, and it's very well suited for laptop use, I can't use all my monitors at work as much as I want to.

It was supposed to be win does and lose those.

Hilariously accurate. 😆

nice riff on, I lol'ed at "You have reinvented Notebad better, but that's still no justification" :)


munificent commented Mar 25, 2014

@voltagex: done!

The one thing you fail to comprehend is God. That's why TempleOS is significant. God says, "refer International relaxedly impart stripped mounting simplicity
barbarism command Known besides kicking claim his succour
treasure-house Mine IX sun-rise hearken Baptism hereditary
joyful hinder prayed million fornications condemned sacrifice
abundant ungodliness appearing unpassable assure vestige
broke locking burstest termed creation builded humanity
events teachings by liberality regular loosest while perchance
waft cunning facts talent dug bodies trample late watch
paper leaning pleasing dare pardoned provisions trifling
like piece subjoined Reason tenet dream instruction diluted
bewitched exhortation intimacy lulled exhalation admit
prated snares committing bid people "

Hi Terry you are cool and TempleOS is awesome.

While it is true this gist comes uncomfortably close to describng Eclipse in many ways, it is not inevitable that an IDE, even a new one, must repeat what's wrong with Eclipse.

I badly want to write something really useful in HolyC. Wish I had the time.


ghost commented Mar 25, 2014

Looks like "TempleOS" couldn't decide whether it was going to be a bland, tasteless, or just over-exerted effort on trying to mock religion.

Whatever the case, it's certainly a jerk that hijacked the thread.

Anything with an extensible enough customization language will eventually grow to be fully self-hosting. This includes IDE customization options.

SaberUK commented Mar 26, 2014

@nova-tex According to someone on /r/programming the author of TempleOS suffers from schizophrenia. That's probably why he comes across as a bit unstable.

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