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Manouchehri/rfc3161.txt

Last active December 18, 2024 13:03
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List of free rfc3161 servers.
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rfc3161.txt
https://rfc3161.ai.moda
https://rfc3161.ai.moda/adobe
https://rfc3161.ai.moda/microsoft
https://rfc3161.ai.moda/apple
https://rfc3161.ai.moda/any
http://rfc3161.ai.moda
http://timestamp.digicert.com
http://timestamp.globalsign.com/tsa/r6advanced1
http://rfc3161timestamp.globalsign.com/advanced
http://timestamp.sectigo.com
http://timestamp.apple.com/ts01
http://tsa.mesign.com
http://time.certum.pl
https://freetsa.org
http://tsa.startssl.com/rfc3161
http://dse200.ncipher.com/TSS/HttpTspServer
http://zeitstempel.dfn.de
https://ca.signfiles.com/tsa/get.aspx
http://services.globaltrustfinder.com/adss/tsa
https://tsp.iaik.tugraz.at/tsp/TspRequest
http://timestamp.entrust.net/TSS/RFC3161sha2TS
http://timestamp.acs.microsoft.com
@Manouchehri
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I've added my experimental load balancer to this list. Hopefully, the first URL should "just work" for most applications like Adobe, but you can specify the type of service by appending it to the URL too.

@venerguevarra
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This http://tsa.starfieldtech.com/ doesn't work anymore

@Manouchehri
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You're right, thanks. Removed it from the list completely.

dave@mbp ~ % dig tsa.starfieldtech.com @8.8.8.8 +tcp

; <<>> DiG 9.10.6 <<>> tsa.starfieldtech.com @8.8.8.8 +tcp
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 20019
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;tsa.starfieldtech.com.		IN	A

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
starfieldtech.com.	1614	IN	SOA	cns1.secureserver.net. dns.jomax.net. 2023011200 3600 600 1209600 3600

;; Query time: 60 msec
;; SERVER: 8.8.8.8#53(8.8.8.8)
;; WHEN: Fri Jan 27 15:33:35 EST 2023
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 117

@venerguevarra
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@Manouchehri Thank you. I think the list should also not contain the following as they are not working anymore

@Manouchehri
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You are correct. My team had already removed those from our rfc3161.ai.moda load balancer, but I forgot to update the list here too.

@karelbilek
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Add http://ts.ssl.com

@vasekkral
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vasekkral commented Nov 21, 2023 •
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http://ts.ssl.com

Is there link to certificate(s) that are used for the TimeStamp? We need to put them into trusted list.

Found here: https://www.ssl.com/how-to/install-ssl-com-ca-root-certificates/

@karelbilek
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@JohnPlanetary WOW thanks for that list, it really helped.

@JohnPlanetary
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@JohnPlanetary WOW thanks for that list, it really helped.

Happy for having been useful.

@mherrmann
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Do https:// URLs actually work for anyone with signtool? I'm getting:

SignTool Error: Invalid Timestamp URL: https://...

Both for signtool /t and for signtool /tr.

@JohnPlanetary
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I've tried the https:// url's and no, it is not working, it appears the same error.

SignTool sign /fd SHA512 /a /f certificate.pfx /p MYPASSWORD /td SHA384 /tr https://timestamp.sectigo.com c:\sign\MyProgram.exe
SignTool Error: Invalid Timestamp URL: https://timestamp.sectigo.com

The good news is that the http:// still works fine, and most common TimeStamp servers don't even have the https:// version working at all.
But I'm sure the https version did work fine on the past, some update to Windows must have messed up things.

I've had the Windows SDK signing tool 10.0.19041.0, but even in the latest 10.0.22621.0 that I downloaded from: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/windows-sdk/ still doesn't work, so isn't just a question of updating the tool, unfortunately something else probably needs to be changed by Microsoft.

@Manouchehri
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My http://rfc3161.ai.moda load balancer should work fine over HTTP. I didn’t add it to the list because I want to encourage everyone to use HTTPS, but it works fine if you must use HTTP.

@danvy
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danvy commented May 30, 2024

My http://rfc3161.ai.moda load balancer should work fine over HTTP. I didn’t add it to the list because I want to encourage everyone to use HTTPS, but it works fine if you must use HTTP.

@Manouchehri Could you explain what's behind this service ?

@Manouchehri
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Could you explain what's behind this service ?

@danvy It's a load balancer that:

  1. Response validation of the timestamp reply before returning it to you.
  2. Automatic retrying. e.g. if one of the upstream servers returns an invalid timestamp reply, we automatically return the next valid response from the next server.
  3. Fans out to multiple trusted timestamping servers in parallel. The two steps above happen in multiple threads, so you will always get the fastest response possible, even if the first upstream CA returns us an error (you won't see the error, we handle that).
  4. Allow CORS requests.
  5. We update the upstream CAs in our list server-side. i.e. You should never need to update your RFC3161 URL in your application if you use any of the https://rfc3161.ai.moda/[*] URLs. e.g. today I noticed that IDnomic/Keynectis took their server down, but we already had 7 fallbacks for https://rfc3161.ai.moda/adobe and 8 fallbacks for https://rfc3161.ai.moda/windows, so it resulted in zero downtime for anyone.

Out of 1.33 million requests this month, we've had 60 errors. So roughly a 99.995% success rate.

@itdevwu
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itdevwu commented Jul 7, 2024

Hi, @Manouchehri. I wonder if there is any document discribing diffrences between each suffix of https://rfc3161.ai.moda/[*]?

@rschultheis
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Hello users of Trusted Timestamps. I would like to add my own site to the list: https://timestampit.com/. TimeStampIt! is a TSA and it is only a TSA. We do not however offer RFC3161 timestamps, but a new design based on plain text encoded trusted timestamps. I built it because a) RFC3161 timestamps are not easy to work with, and b) there really was not a good dedicated TSA that felt like I could build a commercial application on top of.

It is brand new and experimental. I would love any feedback you might have on it! info at timestampit dot com 💚. If there is enough demand I could even add support for RFC3161 timestamps. But honestly I would rather keep innovating in other directions.

@Manouchehri
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@rschultheis RFC3161 is super easy to work with, lots of programs support it out of the box. I've been using it for years on all of my important PDFs, even those non-technical can see the timestamps easily.

@JohnPlanetary
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JohnPlanetary commented Aug 12, 2024 •
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timestampit without RFC 3161 and RFC 5816 support doesn't make a lot of sense here in these topic.
In fact I would argue that since RFC 3161 and RFC 5816 are the standards and are supported by so many programs that is still relevant, the magic part should be the part to be able to verify in the future that the file was really timestamped 23 years ago... I've been testing TSA's for a long time and basically is almost impossible once the TSA expires to proof anything since it will start to give errors... since CRL and or OCSP usually stop working and stops being possible to verify anything.

timestampit could have say a different key for every year using RSA 8192 bit SHA512 key to timestamp using RFC 3161 and RFC 5816, and say 150 years of year key lifetime, the main Root with say 500 years lifetime, RSA 16384 bit SHA512. and every year a new key with 150 years of key lifetime.

TimeStampit Root Key (RSA 16384 bit SHA512) [From: 2024-08-12 - Until: 2524-08-12]

TimeStampit 2024 Key (RSA 8192 bit SHA512) [From: 2024-08-13 -> Until: 2174-12-31] [signs between 2024-08-13 00:00:00 until 2024-12-31 23:59:59]
TimeStampit 2025 Key (RSA 8192 bit SHA512) [From: 2025-01-01 -> Until: 2175-12-31] [signs between 2025-01-01 00:00:00 until 2025-12-31 23:59:59]
TimeStampit 2026 Key (RSA 8192 bit SHA512) [From: 2026-01-01 -> Until: 2176-12-31] [signs between 2026-01-01 00:00:00 until 2026-12-31 23:59:59]
TimeStampit 2026 Key (RSA 8192 bit SHA512) [From: 2026-01-01 -> Until: 2176-12-31] [signs between 2026-01-01 00:00:00 until 2026-12-31 23:59:59]

If the CRL('s) can be included within the signature (still doesn't happen in most programs) then theoretically the timestamp could be believed until its expiration date... as long the company itself doesn't have any troubles coming up like the private key being stolen or cracked.

RSA 16834 bit key with SHA512 should be fine for the Root, but usually can't be used for the final signing key because it will give too many errors at least in my tests it would fail on most signing programs because would take too many memory/ space reserved for the signature.

NIST P-521 could theoretically be used but the problem is that in reality the security level of it should be lower than even RSA 3072 bit key at least if quantum computing is used to try to find the private key.

Ok... but what if TimeStampit doesn't want to support RFC 3161 and RFC 5816?
In what it would be different from other services online like: https://truetimestamp.org , https://opentimestamps.org , https://tzstamp.io , https://timestamp.decred.org and https://notbot.me ? What happens if TimeStampit closes in 6 years time, how would people be able to prove to others that timestamp is real? Some of the services above include some sort of bitcoin or other coin integration to make it more easy to proof in the future (as long those continue to exist)... in some cases judges may not accept them since it wouldn't be easy to verify by themselves and they may or may not believe experts, if it seems magic mumbojumbo... and to my knowledge there is no standard log database for timestamp similar to Certificate Transparency (where people can search for the certificate from multiple sources using for example: https://crt.sh ) where I think the certificate companies need to publish to more than one log database (at least one being from others not related to that company) in order for others to trust it and be able to verify things after the fact.

@rschultheis
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Hi @JohnPlanetary , thank you for this feedback.

I don't want to take over this excellent gist about RFC3161 TSAs (thank you @Manouchehri ) with a discussion of TimestampIt!, therefore I've started a new gist to respond: https://gist.github.com/rschultheis/ea3b17017f520b4b3dcca270fc8dd1b6.

I'd love to keep the discussion going over there, but to quickly respond to one point:

What happens if TimeStampit closes in 6 years time, how would people be able to prove to others that timestamp is real?

This is what the TimestampIt! verification key replica repos are for: https://github.com/timestampit/keychain/. More info in my new gist 💚

@vasekkral
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Hi, @Manouchehri. I wonder if there is any document discribing diffrences between each suffix of https://rfc3161.ai.moda/[*]?

That would be really great as I am wondering what are the differences too!

@vasekkral
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The https://rfc3161.ai.moda/[*] load balancer sounds really great. Unfortunately we are not able to use it as our custom (time)stamping service needs to have list of all used TSA CAs root certificates to consider them trusted.

Would it be possible to have a list with links to root certificates of all active CAs used for https://rfc3161.ai.moda/[*] so we could download them?

@zablockil
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zablockil commented Aug 16, 2024 •
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maybe it will be useful to someone:

#!/bin/bash
#
# tests TSA servers
#
# copyright: public domain / MIT
#
# 1. creates a random hash and nonce
# 2. creates a .tsq file and sends it to the server
# 3. collects certificates from response and saves to .p7b file
# 4. saves validity of certificates from the chain
# 5. saves http address from which any missing certificates can be downloaded
#
# RUN:
# ./tsa_batch.sh
#

hashedMessage_rand () {
	echo "$(openssl rand -hex 64)" | cut -c1-64
}
# md5     cut -c1-32
# sha1    cut -c1-40
# sha224  cut -c1-56
# sha256  cut -c1-64
# sha384  cut -c1-96
# sha512  cut -c1-128

#hashedMessage="00112233445566778899aabbccddeeff00112233445566778899aabbccddeeff"
# change:
# parameter.1 = FORMAT:HEX,OCTETSTRING:$(hashedMessage_rand)
# to:
# parameter.1 = FORMAT:HEX,OCTETSTRING:${hashedMessage}


# sha1/sha256/sha384/sha512
algorithmIdentifier="sha256"

# ~128 bits entropy
nonce_32 () {
	echo "$(shuf -i 1-7 -n 1)$(openssl rand -hex 20)" | cut -c1-32
}

asn1parse_timestamp_request () {
cat <<-EOF

asn1 = SEQUENCE:TimeStampReq

[ TimeStampReq ]

parameter.0 = INTEGER:1
parameter.1 = SEQUENCE:messageImprint
#parameter.2 = OID:1.2.3.4
parameter.3 = INTEGER:0x$(nonce_32)
parameter.4 = BOOLEAN:TRUE

	[ messageImprint ]

	parameter.0 = SEQUENCE:hashAlgorithm
	parameter.1 = FORMAT:HEX,OCTETSTRING:$(hashedMessage_rand)

		[ hashAlgorithm ]

		parameter.0 = OID:${algorithmIdentifier}
		parameter.1 = NULL

EOF
}

generate_tsr () {
  cat <(echo "$(asn1parse_timestamp_request)") | openssl asn1parse -genconf /dev/stdin -noout -out "${ts_name}_timestamp_query.tsq" && \
  openssl ts -query -config /dev/null -text -in "${ts_name}_timestamp_query.tsq" > "${ts_name}_timestamp_query.tsq.txt" && \
  curl ${tsr_server} -H 'Content-Type: application/timestamp-query' -s -S --data-binary "@${ts_name}_timestamp_query.tsq" -o "${ts_name}_timestamp_response.tsr" && \
  openssl ts -reply -config /dev/null -text -in "${ts_name}_timestamp_response.tsr" > "${ts_name}_timestamp_response.tsr.txt" && \
  openssl ts -reply -config /dev/null -token_out -in "${ts_name}_timestamp_response.tsr" | openssl pkcs7 -inform DER -print_certs -text | grep -C1 "Not After" > "${ts_name}_chain_validity.txt" && \
  openssl ts -reply -config /dev/null -token_out -in "${ts_name}_timestamp_response.tsr" | openssl pkcs7 -inform DER -print_certs | awk '/^-----BEGIN CERTIFICATE-----/{n++;s=1}s{print}/^-----END CERTIFICATE-----/{s=0}' | openssl crl2pkcs7 -inform PEM -outform DER -nocrl -certfile /dev/stdin -out "${ts_name}_chain.p7b" && \
  echo "====" >> "${ts_name}_chain_validity.txt" && \
  openssl ts -reply -config /dev/null -token_out -in "${ts_name}_timestamp_response.tsr" | openssl pkcs7 -inform DER -print_certs -text | grep -C0 "CA Issuers" >> "${ts_name}_chain_validity.txt"
  echo "DONE :: ${tsr_server}"
  echo "-------"
  #dumpasn1 -apz "${ts_name}_timestamp_response.tsr" | awk '{ sub(/[ \t]+$/, ""); print }' > "${ts_name}_timestamp_response.tsr.dumpasn1.txt"
}

# https://gist.github.com/Manouchehri/fd754e402d98430243455713efada710

ts_name="digicert"
tsr_server="http://timestamp.digicert.com"
generate_tsr

ts_name="globalsign"
tsr_server="http://aatl-timestamp.globalsign.com/tsa/aohfewat2389535fnasgnlg5m23"
generate_tsr

ts_name="sectigo"
tsr_server="https://timestamp.sectigo.com"
generate_tsr

ts_name="sectigo_2"
tsr_server="https://timestamp.sectigo.com/qualified"
generate_tsr

ts_name="entrust"
tsr_server="http://timestamp.entrust.net/TSS/RFC3161sha2TS"
generate_tsr

ts_name="swisssign"
tsr_server="http://tsa.swisssign.net"
generate_tsr

ts_name="quovadisglobal"
tsr_server="http://ts.quovadisglobal.com/ch"
generate_tsr

ts_name="quovadisglobal_2"
tsr_server="http://ts.quovadisglobal.com/eu"
generate_tsr

ts_name="ssl_com"
tsr_server="http://ts.ssl.com"
generate_tsr

ts_name="identrust"
tsr_server="http://timestamp.identrust.com"
generate_tsr

ts_name="belgium"
tsr_server="http://tsa.belgium.be/connect"
generate_tsr

ts_name="cartaodecidadao"
tsr_server="http://ts.cartaodecidadao.pt/tsa/server"
generate_tsr

ts_name="accv_es"
tsr_server="http://tss.accv.es:8318/tsa"
generate_tsr

ts_name="baltstamp"
tsr_server="http://tsa.baltstamp.lt"
generate_tsr

ts_name="aped_gr"
tsr_server="https://timestamp.aped.gov.gr/qtss"
generate_tsr

ts_name="sep_bg"
tsr_server="http://tsa.sep.bg"
generate_tsr

ts_name="izenpe"
tsr_server="http://tsa.izenpe.com"
generate_tsr

ts_name="certum"
tsr_server="http://time.certum.pl"
generate_tsr

ts_name="symantec"
tsr_server="http://sha256timestamp.ws.symantec.com/sha256/timestamp"
generate_tsr

ts_name="globalsign"
tsr_server="http://rfc3161timestamp.globalsign.com/advanced"
generate_tsr

ts_name="globalsign_2"
tsr_server="http://timestamp.globalsign.com/tsa/r6advanced1"
generate_tsr

ts_name="apple"
tsr_server="http://timestamp.apple.com/ts01"
generate_tsr

ts_name="trustwave"
tsr_server="http://timestamp.ssl.trustwave.com"
generate_tsr

ts_name="freetsa"
tsr_server="https://freetsa.org/tsr"
generate_tsr

ts_name="zeitstempel"
tsr_server="http://zeitstempel.dfn.de"
generate_tsr

ts_name="catcert_cat"
tsr_server="http://psis.catcert.cat/psis/catcert/tsp"
generate_tsr

ts_name="codegic"
tsr_server="http://pki.codegic.com/codegic-service/timestamp"
generate_tsr

#ts_name="mesign"
#tsr_server="https://tsa.mesign.com"
#generate_tsr

ts_name="wotrus"
tsr_server="https://tsa.wotrus.com"
generate_tsr

ts_name="lex_persona"
tsr_server="http://tsa.lex-persona.com/tsa"
generate_tsr

ts_name="cesnet"
tsr_server="https://tsa.cesnet.cz:5817/tsa"
generate_tsr

ts_name="cesnet_2"
tsr_server="https://tsa.cesnet.cz:3162/tsa"
generate_tsr

ts_name="signfiles"
tsr_server="http://ca.signfiles.com/TSAServer.aspx"
generate_tsr

#ts_name="signfiles_2"
#tsr_server="https://ca.signfiles.com/tsa/get.aspx"
#generate_tsr

ts_name="aloahacoin"
tsr_server="http://aloahacoin.chain-provider.com/tsa.aspx"
generate_tsr

ts_name="sinpe_cr"
tsr_server="http://tsa.sinpe.fi.cr/tsaHttp/"
generate_tsr

ts_name="mahidol_th"
tsr_server="https://tsa.mahidol.ac.th/tsa/get.aspx"
generate_tsr

ts_name="cra_ge"
tsr_server="http://tsa.cra.ge/signserver/tsa?workerName=qtsa"
generate_tsr

ts_name="gob_hn"
tsr_server="http://tss.cnbs.gob.hn/TSS/HttpTspServer"
generate_tsr

ts_name="mconnect"
tsr_server="https://time.mconnect.mc"
generate_tsr

ts_name="tugraz_at"
tsr_server="https://tsp.iaik.tugraz.at/tsp/TspRequest"
generate_tsr

#ts_name="safecreative"
#tsr_server="http://tsa.safecreative.org"
#generate_tsr

#ts_name="comodoca"
#tsr_server="http://timestamp.comodoca.com/rfc3161"
#generate_tsr

ts_name="nowina_lu"
tsr_server="http://dss.nowina.lu/pki-factory/tsa/good-tsa"
generate_tsr


#
# other
#


# Digidoc4_Client
#ts_name="sk_ee"
#tsr_server="http://tsa.sk.ee/"
#generate_tsr


# EOF

@hillac
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hillac commented Aug 20, 2024

If you choose one between the Adobe: European Union Trusted Lists, and Adobe Approved Trust List, which is more widely accepted? I'm assuming the EU has a higher level of trust and works everywhere?

@ErikKnowles
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Symantec's timestamp server appears to be defunct. See this.

@dallmair
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We switched to the Azure Code Signing timestamp server: http://timestamp.acs.microsoft.com

@Manouchehri
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Would it be possible to have a list with links to root certificates of all active CAs used for https://rfc3161.ai.moda/[*] so we could download them?

I've exposed https://rfc3161.ai.moda/servers.json for now, does that work or still not quite?

@Manouchehri
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We switched to the Azure Code Signing timestamp server: http://timestamp.acs.microsoft.com

Thanks, I've added that one for Windows signing on https://rfc3161.ai.moda!

@vasekkral
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vasekkral commented Sep 3, 2024 •
edited
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Would it be possible to have a list with links to root certificates of all active CAs used for https://rfc3161.ai.moda/[*] so we could download them?

I've exposed https://rfc3161.ai.moda/servers.json for now, does that work or still not quite?

I mean list of URLs to all CAs root certificates so we can download them and put to trusted list.
I can find one for ssl.com for example: https://www.ssl.com/how-to/install-ssl-com-ca-root-certificates/#ftoc-heading-4

But where can I find CA root certificate for TSA http://timestamp.acs.microsoft.com

The thing is we cannot make proper TSA request without having it's CA root certificate in local trusted list.
When the TSA can be done with any server from the list https://rfc3161.ai.moda/servers.json (thanks, that's quite nice), we need to have all root certificates in one place.

@Pique7
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Pique7 commented Sep 8, 2024

Hello! What can these servers be used for? Are they suitable for productive systems?
I am currently looking for a solution to sign log entries with some kind of trusted timestamp.

@Manouchehri
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@Pique7 You can use them for anything, many folks are using https://rfc3161.ai.moda in production. We serve a few million requests per month now I think, with higher uptime than the majority of any single RFC3161 server (since we have automatic failovers).

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