Hacking the Rectangular Starlink Dishy Cable

rect-starlink-cable-hack.md

Hacking the Rectangular Starlink Dishy Cable

These are are some notes I put together on butchering the rectangular dishy cable.

FOLLOW THESE GUIDELINES AT YOUR OWN RISK. I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DAMAGE OR INJURY YOU SUSTAIN FROM FOLLOWING OR NOT FOLLOWING THESE GUIDELINES.

Disclaimer: Don't do this

In general, if you can get away with using the original 75' cable (or the official 150' long replacement cable), then that is ultimately preferable to doing any of this stuff. If you don't already know why you would want to do this then you definitely shouldn't do it. If you run into trouble, the first thing Starlink Support is going to ask is if the cable between your dishy and router has any modifications, and for good reason.

Power

Despite the connectors being proprietary, the underlying technology connecting the router and the rectangular dishy is gigabit ethernet with non-standard PoE(The orange and green pairs are positive, the blue and brown pairs are negative). The cable itself is plain stranded STP CAT5e, suitable for outdoor use. The router acts as a 48V, 2A PoE power supply, so 96 watts are available at the port the router.

Stick with the original router (and possibly the ethernet port dongle) unless you have a good reason to try something else. You cannot power dishy with a standard PoE injector, but if you are enterprising enough you can rearrange the wires (swap blue/green, terminate as Type-B) going into and out-of a passive 4-pair PoE Injector and get it working with a sufficiently large 48V or 52V DC power supply.

Note that most 48V 2A power supplies on Amazon are insufficient! I recommend this 52V power supply, as I have confirmed that it works and I am using it on my own 200+ft run.

Resistance

Resistance is the primary limiting factor you will run into. As you increase the length of the cable and add additional terminations/connectors, resistance increases. If the resistance is too high, the voltage at the dishy will (perhaps only occasionally) drop too low, causing it to spuriously reboot or not boot at all.

The exact maximum round-trip power resistance that the cable can have before Dishy's stability suffers isn't immediately clear, but 1.8Ω round-trip (~88 watts available for Dishy) appears to be stable while 2.5Ω round-trip is just barely unstable. (neither value includes the resistance of about 20 extra feet of the original CAT5e that is used in my setup)

If you cannot easily measure resistance, you will need to be as conservative as possible:

• Keep the length of your entire run as short as possible and your connectors as few as possible. Continuous runs are almost always preferable to runs with connectors.
• Use outdoor-rated cable for outdoor runs. If riser cable is all you have, paint it.
• Don't directly bury the cable unless it is rated for direct burial. Otherwise, water intrusion will eventually make your connection unreliable. The original cable is NOT rated for direct burial.
• Use 23AWG (or larger) CAT6/CAT6A cable, which will contribute around 0.03Ω/meter for a continuous run.
• The original cable was only 24AWG, so if you are using 23AWG cable then the less length you use from the original cable the better.
• It would appear that connectors will each contribute ~0.02-0.1Ω to the round-trip resistance, but more research is required.
• Avoid unnecessary use of patch panels, they introduce additional connectors and add resistance.
• 150' is likely the most distance you are going to get without changing your approach (like splitting out the power into larger guage wires, etc), but if you use a specialty low-resistance cable (like this) then you might be able to almost double that with some careful terminations.
• Once you get everything set up, try turning on snow pre-heat mode:
  • If you can run a few speed tests in a row without problems, then you are likely golden.
  • If your dishy reboots (either immediately or after running a few speed tests), your cable resistance is too high.

For longer runs you may need to use a power supply with a larger voltage. I can confirm that the rectangular dishy works fine on 52V.

Grounding

With a longer run, proper grounding and surge protection becomes more important. Dishy must be grounded in some way. With the unmodified original cable, that grounding comes from the router. Since we are cutting that wire, we need to make sure that we provide that grounding.

• At least the the first RJ45 termination on the dishy side should be a grounded RJ45 plug.
• Use a high-quality, grounded, PoE-compatable ethernet surge protector at the termination closest to your dishy.
  • If you do this at your "service entrance" (where the wire enters your house), then you won't need a shielded ethernet cable after that point---but you might want it to be shielded to reduce RF interference.
  • If you do use a shielded cable after the grounded surge protector, make sure you don't have a continuous ground between your surge protector and your Starlink router---that would create a ground loop, and you don't want that. If there is a ground fault, some of the surge current could go through your shielding!
• Alternatively, you could forgo the surge protector and use shielded cables, connectors, and plugs for the entire run and ensure continuity between the starlink router and dishy (presumably the router has some amount of built-in surge protection).

You may be able to get by with it if you turn the heater off and never use heat, if you can even get it to boot. But if its mounted 150ft somewhere you probably don't want to go without heat.

If I do this I will be mounting the PoE injector about 3ft cable length from the antenna. I could probably even drop it to 1ft. The data-only side of the PoE will then sit approximately 18ft from the router (a Synology RT2600ac) and since that doesn't shielded ports I can just run a standard SFTP or, indeed, a cheap 18ft CAT7 (shielded plugs but really thin wire).

I spent a lot of time thinking about it and it is weirding me out that the Orange Brown pairs have doubled contacts. It looks like 802.3bt with a dual-signature PD and then the orange-brown pairs are used for the high current load and the blue-green for the voltage sensitive side. In that case the orange brown could be directly connected to the heating elements (at 48V, or whatever volage ends up at the dish). Having two independent PoE injectors would make sense.

But I suspect that's not what they engineered; I can's see why so many people are suddenly ending up with fried systems just after a snowfall. This is, of course, why I'm investigating this; I can save $50/day on my backup internet (AT&T) if I can fix this without having to wait for StarLink customer support.

You may be able to get by with it if you turn the heater off and never use heat, if you can even get it to boot. But if its mounted 150ft somewhere you probably don't want to go without heat.

If I do this I will be mounting the PoE injector about 3ft cable length from the antenna. I could probably even drop it to 1ft. The data-only side of the PoE will then sit approximately 18ft from the router (a Synology RT2600ac) and since that doesn't shielded ports I can just run a standard SFTP or, indeed, a cheap 18ft CAT7 (shielded plugs but really thin wire).

I spent a lot of time thinking about it and it is weirding me out that the Orange Brown pairs have doubled contacts. It looks like 802.3bt with a dual-signature PD and then the orange-brown pairs are used for the high current load and the blue-green for the voltage sensitive side. In that case the orange brown could be directly connected to the heating elements (at 48V, or whatever volage ends up at the dish). Having two independent PoE injectors would make sense.

But I suspect that's not what they engineered; I can's see why so many people are suddenly ending up with fried systems just after a snowfall. This is, of course, why I'm investigating this; I can save $50/day on my backup internet (AT&T) if I can fix this without having to wait for StarLink customer support.

But the amazon poe you listed is $70. Why not just get the injection hardware you know works? Like 800-GIGE-POE or dishypowa and REOLINK 52V 2.88A power adapter.

But the amazon poe you listed is $70. Why not just get the injection hardware you know works? Like 800-GIGE-POE or dishypowa and REOLINK 52V 2.88A power adapter.

Because then I have to buy McCown PoE injector or similar (the NZ product) AND the REOLINK or similar and that's a lot more than $70, or, indeed, $50 for this, which I now have on order:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08MJJTH2B

(I cancelled the Cody order, which had not even been processed.) The above product is clearly documented as having surge suppression and it has a guaranteed delivery date (as did the Cody prodcut). The Cody product has a ground screw as well but the Amazon add doesn't document surge protection.

I couldn't find the 800-GIGE-POE available anywhere; this is the "outdoor" model installed in a weatherproof case. I did find the 800-GIGE-POE-APC (the rack mount model) for $75, including shipping from just one supplier, I have that on order; no confirmation of any delivery time, they said "in stock" but it won't be the first time I've ordered an "in stock" item to have only have it after it was in stock by the retailers supplier. I also have several of the other possibilities on order from Amazon.

The cost is immaterial; as I said I was bleeding $50 (maybe more)/day. I've now got a Plan B that will cost me around $100 per month (continuously) but gives me a failover link.

So what I'm looking for now is a way to fix StarLink and that means understanding the PoE stuff; this is why I am posting here.

What I want is the most reliable solution I can hack and that would seem to mean leaving StarLink out as much as possible and, at the same time, understanding the PoE going into the antenna. I don't want to just hack it (though I will if I have to) I really want to understand it, at least for the next few days.

But the amazon poe you listed is $70. Why not just get the injection hardware you know works? Like 800-GIGE-POE or dishypowa and REOLINK 52V 2.88A power adapter.

Because then I have to buy McCown PoE injector or similar (the NZ product) AND the REOLINK or similar and that's a lot more than $70, or, indeed, $50 for this, which I now have on order:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08MJJTH2B

(I cancelled the Cody order, which had not even been processed.) The above product is clearly documented as having surge suppression and it has a guaranteed delivery date (as did the Cody prodcut). The Cody product has a ground screw as well but the Amazon add doesn't document surge protection.

I couldn't find the 800-GIGE-POE available anywhere; this is the "outdoor" model installed in a weatherproof case. I did find the 800-GIGE-POE-APC (the rack mount model) for $75, including shipping from just one supplier, I have that on order; no confirmation of any delivery time, they said "in stock" but it won't be the first time I've ordered an "in stock" item to have only have it after it was in stock by the retailers supplier. I also have several of the other possibilities on order from Amazon.

The cost is immaterial; as I said I was bleeding $50 (maybe more)/day. I've now got a Plan B that will cost me around $100 per month (continuously) but gives me a failover link.

So what I'm looking for now is a way to fix StarLink and that means understanding the PoE stuff; this is why I am posting here.

What I want is the most reliable solution I can hack and that would seem to mean leaving StarLink out as much as possible and, at the same time, understanding the PoE going into the antenna. I don't want to just hack it (though I will if I have to) I really want to understand it, at least for the next few days.

I have used the rack mount versions as well for the same stocking reason. It is very easy to solder a ground wire lead on the metal tab section and is easier to get 100% waterproof in a 4x4x2 electrical box from home depot then the ones made for outdoor.

https://www.neobits.com/mccown_technology_800_gige_poe_apc_mccown_technology_p10399422.html

https://www.neobits.com/mccown_technology_800_gige_poe_apc_mccown_technology_p10399422.html

Yep; that's where I got it from. Here's the text from my orders page. I chose the cheapest shipping option that was offered:

NW568174 Shipped Complete 01/22/2023 $72.33

And, according to FedEx they did it (so that is a ++ for neobits.com):

Monday, 1/23/2023	
3:59 PM
Shipment information sent to FedEx
5:18 PM
Picked up
WEST CHESTER, OH

This is github, not facebook; you asked me to justify investigating PoE injectors and I did, but that was an ad hominem attack from the gitgo.

I'm still simply trying to find the best way to do an end run round what I consider to be a necessary restriction (given that I don't dispute the power rating exceeds that allowed by RJ45) done by StarLink yet implemented in a way that doesn't seem to quite work.

I suggest we discuss why RJ45 is limited to 90W in 802.3bt. It's not simply ISO/IEC 60950, even the white paper for 802.3bt states:

[T]his compliance means that power cannot exceed 100W per port.

Yet my reading of 60950 suggests that the actual limit is 240W per cable; the spec places a hard limit of 60V and 240VA for more than 200ms. But bt has a limit of 960mA per pair so, combined with 60V (bt says 57.6V at the PSE, but close enough) that would only be 120VA max at the PD, given that the current goes out and comes back on the same cable.

I take the Chuck McCown point of using all four pairs for delivery and ground for return (so 4A out and 4A back via the ground) but I actually once owned a house where someone had done something like that (the neutral to a socket was broken so someone jacked it to the nearest available neutral) and that struck me as the most scary piece of wiring I have ever seen.

Addendum to what I said before: the Cody spec sheet (PDF) does actually say it has surge protection, but it doesn't include a spec of the rating.

https://www.neobits.com/mccown_technology_800_gige_poe_apc_mccown_technology_p10399422.html

Yep; that's where I got it from. Here's the text from my orders page. I chose the cheapest shipping option that was offered:

NW568174 Shipped Complete 01/22/2023 $72.33

And, according to FedEx they did it (so that is a ++ for neobits.com):

Monday, 1/23/2023	
3:59 PM
Shipment information sent to FedEx
5:18 PM
Picked up
WEST CHESTER, OH

This is github, not facebook; you asked me to justify investigating PoE injectors and I did, but that was an ad hominem attack from the gitgo.

I'm still simply trying to find the best way to do an end run round what I consider to be a necessary restriction (given that I don't dispute the power rating exceeds that allowed by RJ45) done by StarLink yet implemented in a way that doesn't seem to quite work.

I suggest we discuss why RJ45 is limited to 90W in 802.3bt. It's not simply ISO/IEC 60950, even the white paper for 802.3bt states:

[T]his compliance means that power cannot exceed 100W per port.

Yet my reading of 60950 suggests that the actual limit is 240W per cable; the spec places a hard limit of 60V and 240VA for more than 200ms. But bt has a limit of 960mA per pair so, combined with 60V (bt says 57.6V at the PSE, but close enough) that would only be 120VA max at the PD, given that the current goes out and comes back on the same cable.

I take the Chuck McCown point of using all four pairs for delivery and ground for return (so 4A out and 4A back via the ground) but I actually once owned a house where someone had done something like that (the neutral to a socket was broken so someone jacked it to the nearest available neutral) and that struck me as the most scary piece of wiring I have ever seen.

Addendum to what I said before: the Cody spec sheet (PDF) does actually say it has surge protection, but it doesn't include a spec of the rating.

Sorry it came across as an attack I just didn't want to see you or anyone else go down a path of supplying lower wattage then the router itself supplies as it is already underpower to handle the dishy demands.

I just didn't want to see you or anyone else go down a path of supplying lower wattage then the router itself supplies as it is already underpower to handle the dishy demands.

Well yes; I'm certainly not disputing the high power requirements of the antenna. What is more if the antenna is a purely passive PD then, as I understand it, none of the 802.3 PSEs will work at all; my understanding is that if the PSE cannot detect the 'signature' resistance on the PD then it can't put any voltage across the conductor pairs in the first place. If I can use an 802.3bt (which means iff the antenna does the negotiation) then I'd want to find a wiring method that didn't cause the PSE to drop the connection on heater overload and I suspect that isn't possible (the PSE has to drop both the channels, not just the one that overloads). Nevertheless I can turn the snow melt off (I don't need it) and 802.3bt has much better protections.

StarLink are bound by 60950-SELF and by the other cable rating standards (NEC, UL etc). If they put a consumer accessible RJ45 on the cable they also get limited by spec and limitations on RJ45, in particular a consumer connection to existing cabling (CAT5 and earlier) infrastructure. So far as I can make out that is where the 90W comes from. Using a proprietary connector removes the possibility of a consumer connection; either the cable has to be cut or the ends have to be ground off a USB-C socket (I intend to do the latter next). Presumably this is enough to remove the 90W/cable limit and, most likely, allow the router to put 120VA or more into the connector.

I just didn't want to see you or anyone else go down a path of supplying lower wattage then the router itself supplies as it is already underpower to handle the dishy demands.

Well yes; I'm certainly not disputing the high power requirements of the antenna. What is more if the antenna is a purely passive PD then, as I understand it, none of the 802.3 PSEs will work at all; my understanding is that if the PSE cannot detect the 'signature' resistance on the PD then it can't put any voltage across the conductor pairs in the first place. If I can use an 802.3bt (which means iff the antenna does the negotiation) then I'd want to find a wiring method that didn't cause the PSE to drop the connection on heater overload and I suspect that isn't possible (the PSE has to drop both the channels, not just the one that overloads). Nevertheless I can turn the snow melt off (I don't need it) and 802.3bt has much better protections.

StarLink are bound by 60950-SELF and by the other cable rating standards (NEC, UL etc). If they put a consumer accessible RJ45 on the cable they also get limited by spec and limitations on RJ45, in particular a consumer connection to existing cabling (CAT5 and earlier) infrastructure. So far as I can make out that is where the 90W comes from. Using a proprietary connector removes the possibility of a consumer connection; either the cable has to be cut or the ends have to be ground off a USB-C socket (I intend to do the latter next). Presumably this is enough to remove the 90W/cable limit and, most likely, allow the router to put 120VA or more into the connector.

Please update us on how that goes.

Forgive me if this has already been covered. What if I'm just trying to splice the proprietary ends onto existing category cable? Can I just hack off both ends, terminate them with RJ45 plugs and connect to the length of cable routed through my walls? I presume this will work out just fine, assuming I'm terminating everything 568b. No injectors. Cat6 cable length under 150'. Anyone here done this before?

Forgive me if this has already been covered. What if I'm just trying to splice the proprietary ends onto existing category cable? Can I just hack off both ends, terminate them with RJ45 plugs and connect to the length of cable routed through my walls? I presume this will work out just fine, assuming I'm terminating everything 568b. No injectors. Cat6 cable length under 150'. Anyone here done this before?

Yes that will work but keep in mind this will be more resistance then you are going to get with a stock 150ft cable with 2 plugs what you are talking about will be 6 plugs the 2 original and 4 between. And stranded rj45 plugs suck and passing power compared to solid conductors. The stock power supply in the router is already underpowered and undervolted for the power demand the dishy is putting on it. You are probably better off using k2 double blade cable connectors for you splices. But if you are staying under 150ft why not just use the stock cable?

Thanks for the reply. The distance is probably 60-80' end to end. While I have no doubt that power would pass better through gel bean K2 connectors, these are more for telephone signal. Data is susceptible to interference and other issues if the twist and shielding is not properly maintained.

You do ask a valid question though. Why not just use the stock cable? This is going on the roof of an ultra high end residence for internet failover. There are cables routed from the roof to the equipment racks already. Putting a new proprietary cable in place would require a tremendous amount of work, as silly as that sounds.

This is going on the roof of an ultra high end residence for internet failover.

This gist is very much for people who are living on the edge. The RJ45 is limited to 90W, and then only with PSEs which meet the requirements of the IEC specs, the StarLink antenna requires more than that.

I just wouldn't do it that way. Run the infrastructure wiring as close as possible to the place the antenna will go, run power too. Put the router there; I'm guessing the installation uses the ethernet dongle because otherwise doing failover is, well, complex. (I have an installation with failover, but mine is the other way round; my local ISP is providing the failover for StarLink.)

Don't splice, or mod, the StarLink kit; just coil the 75ft cable up in the loft or wherever the router ends up. This is what I ended up doing, it worked just fine until the StarLink kit failed, but I own the house so I'm looking at getting rid of the router completely. Believe me when I sell this place that kind of stuff will be removed before the place even goes on the market (I live in the US.)

Tonight I replicated the setup at my client's house. The 75' proprietary cable was cut about 15' from the modem end. The signal path is now modem > Ethernet adapter > 15' of proprietary cable with RJ45 jack > 25' of Cat6 with plugs on both ends > 100' of Cat6 with jacks on both ends > 60' of proprietary cable with a plug on the end > dishy.

I'm running through a total of 200' of cable with 2 different cable skews and 3 junctions and it works fine. To validate my results, I pulled out the FLIR camera to take some photos of the connectors. The chatter here and elsewhere indicates that Starlink is using the modified USBC connectors to accommodate the amperage required by dishy. I expected the RJ45 junctions to be the weakest link in the chain and to see some heat generated there. That was not the case though. All the connectors are at room temperature, regardless of whether the heater is on or off.

The cables do appear to be about 3° warmer than room temperature, but that trivial amount of heat could still be residual from me coiling the cables after cutting them off the spool.

Reality here is that you could fill the ocean with things I don't know about how this actually works. How many watts does dishy actually draw when the heater is on? Is it different when the heater is in auto mode vs pre-heat? The cable I used isn't shielded. Does it matter? Should I have eaten that whole burrito? The list goes on forever. But I suspect that this the power supply is designed for the worst case scenario, taking into account voltage drop for the 150' proprietary cable and all the things (heater, servo motors, etc) operating at the same time. Likely for a more sustained period of time than will ever actually happen.

Should you do this? Absolutely not, as noted in the disclaimer at the top of the thread. Can you do this? Probably. Am I actually going to void the warranty on my client's backup satellite internet hardware just to make the cables pretty? -Yup.

Tonight I replicated the setup at my client's house. The 75' proprietary cable was cut about 15' from the modem end. The signal path is now modem > Ethernet adapter > 15' of proprietary cable with RJ45 jack > 25' of Cat6 with plugs on both ends > 100' of Cat6 with jacks on both ends > 60' of proprietary cable with a plug on the end > dishy.

I'm running through a total of 200' of cable with 2 different cable skews and 3 junctions and it works fine. To validate my results, I pulled out the FLIR camera to take some photos of the connectors. The chatter here and elsewhere indicates that Starlink is using the modified USBC connectors to accommodate the amperage required by dishy. I expected the RJ45 junctions to be the weakest link in the chain and to see some heat generated there. That was not the case though. All the connectors are at room temperature, regardless of whether the heater is on or off.

The cables do appear to be about 3° warmer than room temperature, but that trivial amount of heat could still be residual from me coiling the cables after cutting them off the spool.

Reality here is that you could fill the ocean with things I don't know about how this actually works. How many watts does dishy actually draw when the heater is on? Is it different when the heater is in auto mode vs pre-heat? The cable I used isn't shielded. Does it matter? Should I have eaten that whole burrito? The list goes on forever. But I suspect that this the power supply is designed for the worst case scenario, taking into account voltage drop for the 150' proprietary cable and all the things (heater, servo motors, etc) operating at the same time. Likely for a more sustained period of time than will ever actually happen.

Should you do this? Absolutely not, as noted in the disclaimer at the top of the thread. Can you do this? Probably. Am I actually going to void the warranty on my client's backup satellite internet hardware just to make the cables pretty? -Yup.

How much more stress is this putting on the internal power supply and how will the dishy handle the voltage and amperage drop over a long period of time is the question.

Should I activate bridge mode if I want to use my own router in this setup?

Should I activate bridge mode if I want to use my own router in this setup?

So far as I can see bridge mode is only required if IPv6 is required. If you are happy with the StarLink router as an IPv4 failover then I believe it should be possible to plug the dongle ethernet into the WAN port of a router with failover support but would result in triple NAT.

It seems much more simple to use "bypass" (i.e. bridge mode); having two routers just complicates the configuration and, indeed, the StarLink router wifi can't be switched off or hidden so that complicates the user experience as well. Bypass mode isn't perfect because the traffic still goes through two ethernet systems and, most likely, the MCU but I don't know if the antenna will boot without the ethernet connection; with PoE from a separate injector.

Should I activate bridge mode if I want to use my own router in this setup?

So far as I can see bridge mode is only required if IPv6 is required. If you are happy with the StarLink router as an IPv4 failover then I believe it should be possible to plug the dongle ethernet into the WAN port of a router with failover support but would result in triple NAT.

It seems much more simple to use "bypass" (i.e. bridge mode); having two routers just complicates the configuration and, indeed, the StarLink router wifi can't be switched off or hidden so that complicates the user experience as well. Bypass mode isn't perfect because the traffic still goes through two ethernet systems and, most likely, the MCU but I don't know if the antenna will boot without the ethernet connection; with PoE from a separate injector.

Thanks for insights. I would better stick to original Starlink router. For me there is no particular reason to use my own wi-fi router. Original one would suffice for my my needs

For me there is no particular reason to use my own wi-fi router.

The terminology has evolved over the years and become confusing as a result. Both StarLink and my local ISP provide a bridge, in the form of the antennae, and then what is now called a router but used to be called a gateway is required afterward. Setting "bypass" mode on the StarLink router bypasses the gateway functionality of the router and means that another router (well, another gateway) is required.

Setting the StarLink router into bypass mode is not something anyone needs to do unless they already know then need to do it.

Ive had some difficulty converting my Starlink to 12 volts. I terminated my stock cable and built my own POE using the typical components described in youtube vids and Reddit forums confirmed to be working - 12 volt to 48V 3amp step up powersupply , Tycon POE injector. I put the Starlink in Bridge mode, hooked everything to a GL-Inet Beryl router wan port with the properly terminated ends (one swapped and the other not) and powered it up. The Starlink would attach for 30 seconds and then disconnect. I left it in this cycle for 3 hours and still no IP. I am mounting this on the roof of my van and my cable runs are extremely short. My gut feeling was that my power supply was too weak. I am plugging it into 15amp fused cigarette lighter socket. I bought a Mean well DDR120c and cranked it up to 50 volts and tried again but I am getting the same error. I was about to give up when I found a person using a 120volt to 48 volt stepdown transformer. I bought one and hooked it to a brand new Tycon POE Injector and it attached and acquired an IP successfully. There is obviously a difference in the 48 volts 3A coming from the 120 volt Power transformer and the Mean Well Converter at 48 volt 2.5 amps (besides the .5 amps) . The Mean Well has seemed to be a pretty dependable power supply for this MOD. I even tried to hook the Mean Well directly to a 12 car battery. Using 12 gauge wire all around. Any ideas about why my 12 volt to 48 volt system wont stay connected. but my 120 volt to 48 volt system works great?

![Screenshot 2023-02-01 at 9 18 33 PM](https://

user-images.githubusercontent.com/124229469/216238183-446fe523-4a24-413c-9be1-24a14363dda8.png)

I bought one and hooked it to a brand new Tycon POE Injector and it attached and acquired an IP successfully.

One potential weak point is the ethernet transformer chip used inside the PoE. There are a lot of these chips around but most of them only have a "30W" or "60W" capability. So far as I can see the transformer must be one of the newest ones designed for the highest power (class 8) 802.3bt; these have to support a continuous 99W at the PSE and I think that means 960mA/pair or 480mA/conductor. Even then, if the numbers are right, the transformer is being run over-powered. You seem to have the right Tycon injector, but they may use that box for lower power devices. Check what you have against the Tycon data:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/PoE-Injectors_c_172-1-2.html

(Search for the actual model number on that page.) I intend to double check the McCown and the Tycon (I have both) but the number given above for the McCown injector seems to correspond to a Pulse Electronics 30W (802.3at) transformer.

It would be a useful test to swap the old Tycon injector back without changing the setup to see if this has failed or not.

The likely failure point is startup of a cold dish. If "snow melt" is turned on this will draw maximum power. It's not clear to me that higher voltage helps here; heaters are normally purely passive so a higher voltage increases the current requirement in proportion. There are cheaper testers on Amazon that can test the actual power delivery:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08B46PMV3

But if the current goes over the limit something is likely to break... Check the output voltage of the two 48V supplies under load; at 2.4A. I do have one of those supplies (the first, switching, 3A/48V PSU) so I'm going to try to test that. It would be interesting to know which of them generates the lower voltage. The regular (non-switching) PSU will probably also have considerable ripple; who knows, that might help!

I couldn't work out which systems you have working. It seems the 48V/3A didn't work and neither did the Mean Well initially. They are both switching PSUs. Then there was a step down transformer system which seems to be the approach in your picture. Those are pretty hard to come by these days and the peak voltage one would deliver is almost 68V; the actual output depends on the voltage regulator inside the PSU, if there is one.

I've also encountered one 12V high current (10A or something like that) switching PSU which could not supply a low current (below 1A); it would just stop working. This seems to be a feature of high current PSUs, but it may be just a fault in the one I was trying to use.

In any case I have snow melt turned off; it's a persistent setting on the StarLink antenna (the dish). I might experiment with turning it back on but only if I have it powered through the StarLink kit (i.e. from the router). I want to find out what the actual current draw is first and I want to compare it with "preheat". There's no pre-heat only setting though, so if "snow melt" draws the kind of current people are suggesting it's pretty much useless without special ethernet transformers. I've seen 185W quoted, but that is almost twice what Oleg Kutkov quotes the router PSE as being able to output (120W):

https://olegkutkov.me/2022/04/10/initial-analysis-of-the-starlink-router-gen2/

It may be that the router has a slow turn-on or, indeed, maybe it is doing full 802.3bt with LLDP to negotiate power with the antenna? I'm still at the stage of needing to make test leads (SPX to RJ45) before I can find out more.

McCown 800-GIGE-APC transformer data sheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CN1s0zdzvzn7WFps7vP6IgSC8o0_H3rV/view?usp=share_link
Dishpowa transformer data sheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/10vF1zdiZoWkZGcegcOFoDLXQ6KCrkKwQ/view?usp=share_link

I blew out a Tycon POE-INJ-1000-WT transformer (unmarked part) and it shorted 1,2,4,5 to 7,8 and killed my dishy permanently. I could not find any fault in my wiring - I think the transformer chip simply overloaded.

Note that Tycon make two of these:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/poe-inj-1000-wt Gigabit Passive PoE Injector/Splitter with LED Indicator. Injects or splits DC power on all 8 wires. 1245(+) 3678(-). Wire terminal connector. 2.25A. VIN=VOUT. Ubiquiti airFiber

https://www.tyconsystems.com/poe-inj-1000-wtx Gigabit Passive PoE Injector/Splitter with LED Indicator. Injects or splits DC Power on all 8 wires. 1278(-) 3645(+). Wire terminal connector. 2.25A. VIN=VOUT

The first (without the "x") is the standard 802.3af etc approach which puts the power across the transmit/receive pairs of a single channel; 12-36 (orange green) is the first channel used in half-duplex (4 conductor) pairs and 45-78 is the second channel for full duplex

The second one puts the positive on the middle four pins, 4536 (red, green pairs) and the negative on the outer (1278, orange brown) pairs. So plugging a WTx injector into any regular device with 4 pair PoE put a positive and a negative together on the pairs which normally supply either the positive or negative. On a diode protected PD this is no problem; the diodes route the positive or negative to the right place. On something with no diodes there is a short circuit that will instantly blow out the ethernet transformers in one or both ends (or a mixture of the two).

The StarLink is, I believe (DO NOT RELY ON THIS STATEMENT - check yourself) 1236+, 4578- Note that the WTs both put useable power on each half-duplex but that StarLink does not. The Tycon WT has 12(+)36(-), 45(+)78(-) and the Wtx has 12(-)36(+), 45(+)78(-) the latter corresponds to T-568A where green/orange (12, 36) are swapped relative to T-568B. Whereas StarLink has 12(+)36(+) 78(-)45(-) One half-duplex pair-of-pairs is wired positive, the other negative. Presumably there is some benefit to this...

The obvious protection is to wire four IN4005 diodes in the right direction from the PSU to the center taps of the transformers in the PoE injector. That protects both ends (PD and PSE) except that the PD might end up with positive and negative supply rails swapped. Better is to protect the PD, but that increases the power requirement at the PSE injection point (until if the diodes are in the PSE, before the injection point).

EDIT (important): diodes in the PSE will not help. The diodes have to be in the PD to prevent miswiring at the PSE or PD end from connecting the PSE + directly to the PSE -. Given that @OleksandrSimakov apparently fried at least the PSE with the Tycon WTX it certainly sounds like the Dish does not have protection diodes. Aargh; they should have put protection diodes in and gone with a higher voltage; at least 57.6V. the diodes will output a small number of watts, but only if pre-heat or snow-melt is on when, surely, it doesn't matter...

Thanks all for the input. My working system is the 120volt to 48 volt transformer injecting a Tycon Poe-inj-1000-wt to the DIshy in Bridge mode with Snow melt OFF. I built three slightly different iterations of this system on different Amp rated 12 volt to 48 volt upconverters - Two of the Cheopo Buck converters (one 3amp and the other 4 amp) and then the Mean Well. I quadrupled tested every termination , and made sure all my cables were stock Starlink sheilded Cat 5 and all my power cables were 12 gauge and direct connected them to a 12volt 110ah lithium battery. All of them failed to hold a connection to the Dishy. As I see it there are only three variable here - Power, POE and Cable resistance. Changing the power source to 120 volt step down transformer solved the problem . I’m thinking there is a problem with my POE when its powered with a 12 volt to 48 step up. I ordered a McCown 800-GIGE-poe with the built in surge protection hoping this may solve the problem. I’ve heard the Dishypowa POE is also very good but I haven’t been able to order one. Getting this to work is more educational at this point since I’ve spent so much money trying to save pennies in power trying not using an inverter . I really appreciate the help. I’ll post when I receive the 800-GIGE-POE and hook to the Mean Well. Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2023 9:14 AM To: jbowler ***@***.***> Cc: Comment ***@***.***>; Manual ***@***.***> Subject: Re: darconeous/rect-starlink-cable-hack.md @jbowler commented on this gist.

…

________________________________ I bought one and hooked it to a brand new Tycon POE Injector and it attached and acquired an IP successfully. One potential weak point is the ethernet transformer chip used inside the PoE. There are a lot of these chips around but most of them only have a "30W" or "60W" capability. So far as I can see the transformer must be one of the newest ones designed for the highest power (class 8) 802.3bt; these have to support a continuous 99W at the PSE and I think that means 960mA/pair or 480mA/conductor. Even then, if the numbers are right, the transformer is being run over-powered. You seem to have the right Tycon injector, but they may use that box for lower power devices. Check what you have against the Tycon data: https://www.tyconsystems.com/PoE-Injectors_c_172-1-2.html (Search for the actual model number on that page.) I intend to double check the McCown and the Tycon (I have both) but the number given above for the McCown injector seems to correspond to a Pulse Electronics 30W (802.3at) transformer. It would be a useful test to swap the old Tycon injector back without changing the setup to see if this has failed or not. The likely failure point is startup of a cold dish. If "snow melt" is turned on this will draw maximum power. It's not clear to me that higher voltage helps here; heaters are normally purely passive so a higher voltage increases the current requirement in proportion. There are cheaper testers on Amazon that can test the actual power delivery: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08B46PMV3 But if the current goes over the limit something is likely to break... Check the output voltage of the two 48V supplies under load; at 2.4A. I do have one of those supplies (the first, switching, 3A/48V PSU) so I'm going to try to test that. It would be interesting to know which of them generates the lower voltage. The regular (non-switching) PSU will probably also have considerable ripple; who knows, that might help! I couldn't work out which systems you have working. It seems the 48V/3A didn't work and neither did the Mean Well initially. They are both switching PSUs. Then there was a step down transformer system which seems to be the approach in your picture. Those are pretty hard to come by these days and the peak voltage one would deliver is almost 68V; the actual output depends on the voltage regulator inside the PSU, if there is one. I've also encountered one 12V high current (10A or something like that) switching PSU which could not supply a low current (below 1A); it would just stop working. This seems to be a feature of high current PSUs, but it may be just a fault in the one I was trying to use. In any case I have snow melt turned off; it's a persistent setting on the StarLink antenna (the dish). I might experiment with turning it back on but only if I have it powered through the StarLink kit (i.e. from the router). I want to find out what the actual current draw is first and I want to compare it with "preheat". There's no pre-heat only setting though, so if "snow melt" draws the kind of current people are suggesting it's pretty much useless without special ethernet transformers. I've seen 185W quoted, but that is almost twice what Oleg Kutkov quotes the router PSE as being able to output (120W): https://olegkutkov.me/2022/04/10/initial-analysis-of-the-starlink-router-gen2/ It may be that the router has a slow turn-on or, indeed, maybe it is doing full 802.3bt with LLDP to negotiate power with the antenna? I'm still at the stage of needing to make test leads (SPX to RJ45) before I can find out more. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4457507> or unsubscribe<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A5TZOXKQD3HKK357354YWFTWVPTODBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF>. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS<https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675> or Android<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub>.

I purchased a POE Tester (Noyafa NF488S) from Amazon. There were issues:

1. cannot test Starlink non-standard 4PPoe
2. does not measure standard 4PPoe power correctly
3. does not indicate positive or negative voltages on 4PPoe wires

Results:
With 4pair PoE injecter, Tycon, 1,2,4,5 (V+) 3,6,7,8 (V-)

• the tester showed midspan with all 8 lines as active, but not which are positive or negative. Voltage was measured.
• the tester, with no PD connected, showed that 15W was being dissipated
• the tester, with a PD connected (Peplink Max BR1 Mini), showed that 19W was dissipated

With Starlink cable, midspan, 1,2,3,6 (V+) 4,5,7,8 (V-)

• "unknown" was displayed, and no lines as active. Voltage was measured.
• 0.0W power measurement
• The cable was able to be used for data transmission, with the tester inserted midspan

@jbowler did you use the TRENDnet Inline PoE Tester, TC-NTP1 successfully?

Didn't even know there was such an instrument. I was thinking that another way to decrease the power draw of Dishy besides turning snow melt off would be to disconnect the motors . I plan to flat mount it anyways . It’s works very dependably on the 120 volt to 48 volt transformer direct to Tyco Poe. Seems the Poe is working. Maybe there are different qualities of Poe that may only work with certain “types” of 48 volt dc power. I’m puzzled why 48 volts doesn’t work with 12 volt sources switch the TYCO in my situation and works for others. Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

…

________________________________ From: torrmundi ***@***.***> Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 3:04:39 PM To: torrmundi ***@***.***> Cc: Comment ***@***.***>; Manual ***@***.***> Subject: Re: darconeous/rect-starlink-cable-hack.md @torrmundi commented on this gist.

________________________________ I purchased a POE Tester (Noyafa NF488S) from Amazon. There were issues: 1. cannot test Starlink non-standard 4PPoe 2. does not measure standard 4PPoe power correctly 3. does not indicate positive or negative voltages on 4PPoe wires Results: with 4pair PoE injecter, Tycon, 1,2,4,5 (V+) 3,6,7,8 (V-) * the tester showed midspan with all 8 lines as active, but not which are positive or negative. Voltage was measured. * the tester, with no PD connected, showed that 15W was being dissipated * the tester, with a PD connected (Peplink Max BR1 Mini), showed that 19W was dissipated with Starlink cable, midspan, 1,2,3,6 (V+) 4,5,7,8 (V-) * "unknown" was displayed, and no lines as active. Voltage was measured. * 0.0W power measurement * The cable was able to be used for data transmission, with the tester inserted midspan @jbowler<https://github.com/jbowler> did you use the TRENDnet Inline PoE Tester, TC-NTP1 successfully? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4459194> or unsubscribe<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A5TZOXIDUMW7QZVRA4RYSMDWVWFIRBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF>. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS<https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675> or Android<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub>.

Didn't even know there was such an instrument. I was thinking that another way to decrease the power draw of Dishy besides turning snow melt off would be to disconnect the motors . I plan to flat mount it anyways . It’s works very dependably on the 120 volt to 48 volt transformer direct to Tyco Poe. Seems the Poe is working. Maybe there are different qualities of Poe that may only work with certain “types” of 48 volt dc power. I’m puzzled why 48 volts doesn’t work with 12 volt sources switch the TYCO in my situation and works for others. Get Outlook for iOShttps://aka.ms/o0ukef
…
________________________________ From: torrmundi @.> Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 3:04:39 PM To: torrmundi @.> Cc: Comment @.>; Manual @.> Subject: Re: darconeous/rect-starlink-cable-hack.md @torrmundi commented on this gist.
________________________________ I purchased a POE Tester (Noyafa NF488S) from Amazon. There were issues: 1. cannot test Starlink non-standard 4PPoe 2. does not measure standard 4PPoe power correctly 3. does not indicate positive or negative voltages on 4PPoe wires Results: with 4pair PoE injecter, Tycon, 1,2,4,5 (V+) 3,6,7,8 (V-) * the tester showed midspan with all 8 lines as active, but not which are positive or negative. Voltage was measured. * the tester, with no PD connected, showed that 15W was being dissipated * the tester, with a PD connected (Peplink Max BR1 Mini), showed that 19W was dissipated with Starlink cable, midspan, 1,2,3,6 (V+) 4,5,7,8 (V-) * "unknown" was displayed, and no lines as active. Voltage was measured. * 0.0W power measurement * The cable was able to be used for data transmission, with the tester inserted midspan @jbowlerhttps://github.com/jbowler did you use the TRENDnet Inline PoE Tester, TC-NTP1 successfully? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4459194 or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A5TZOXIDUMW7QZVRA4RYSMDWVWFIRBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOShttps://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Androidhttps://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

Did you compare exact voltage and amperage numbers as well as fluctuation between the 12 vs 120 converter? My guess is the 12 to 48 is not holding high enough volts or amps for the dishy's power regulator. And if you are running close to the edge on that power regulator that potentially creates more heat and stress.

@jbowler did you use the TRENDnet Inline PoE Tester, TC-NTP1 successfully?

@torrmundi: I haven't received it yet, it should come early next week. I did also order one of the NF488 testers, possibly a slightly different revision since mine is NF-488 not NF-488S. Mine seems to work better than yours; I've done limited testing and it correctly identifies 802.3af and at, mode A (4 pairs, channel 1) and AB (both channels). It doesn't support 802.3bt and plugged into a bt switch it reports it as 802.3at with "4 pairs". The power rating when used with a PD on the PoE "Out" RJ45 seems credible. I suggest testing the accuracy of the DC out and DC in ports if you have a load tester (not that they are necessarily that accurate ;-). It's certainly a return if that doesn't work. On mine the "loopback" port doesn't seem to work but that might be my managed switches rejecting a loopback connector.

I believe the polarity of the channels is reported by the voltage; plugged into a switch with 802.3af I get a negative voltage but into the 802.3bt capable switch the voltage was positive. It would be much better if the pins were displayed with "+", "-" or " " underneath. I haven't tested with passive injectors yet; I've only had the tester 12 hours.

With Starlink cable, midspan, 1,2,3,6 (V+) 4,5,7,8 (V-)

I'm not surprised that gave "unsupported"; channel 1 is (all) positive and channel 2 negative. I haven't hacked the test leads for StarLink together yet but my default would be to fabricate swapped 36/45 pairs at both sides then I would expect to see the tester report something; the swapping makes the tester see 1,2,4,5(V+) 3,6,7,8(V-) which corresponds to the POE-INJ-1000-WT that I have and 802.3a[ft] modes A and B. BTW Tycon sells these injectors direct for $10 each and currently has 2683 (or so) in stock. Shipping is $6 USPS; cheaper than anything on Amazon.

As for the McCown I couldn't access your links; Google Drive shareable links normally work just fine for me so I think they might be something else (like the thing on the address bar when a shareable link is created?) I did get home and eyeball my own McCown 800-GIGE-POE-APC (i.e. the Cat5e APC version, not the Cat6 APC version). The transformer is a LINK-PP LP6062ANL:

http://www.link-pp.com/?product/201408082292.html

From the datasheet the current rating (for PoE) is "720mA continuous over 4 pairs", further described on the second page as "[e]xceeds 802.3at requirements with up to 720mA DC supply current over 2 or 4 pairs". This is better than the Pulse Electronics H6062NL component which it claims it's a clone of:

https://productfinder.pulseelectronics.com/part/h6062nl

The datasheet for that states, "DC CURRENT/VOLTAGE RATING 350mA MAX @57V (CONTINUOUS)", I assume that is per pair so a total current delivery/return of 700mA for 39W. So this is not an 802.3bt capable part. The maximum using 60V would be under 45W at the PSE (less at the dish of course).

I assume the Tycon parts, despite being so cheap, are using 802.3bt capable transformers; the input is up to 2.25A at 80V which means that can handle 180W at the PSE. I haven't worked out how to pop the Tycon box open yet but I think I will use the McCown for testing since the jumpers allow testing on individual pairs and I have Snow Melt off, then use a Tycon and probably order a couple more for disassembly/testing.

@morehardware:

Maybe there are different qualities of Poe that may only work with certain “types” of 48 volt dc power. I’m puzzled why 48 volts doesn’t work with 12 volt sources switch the TYCO in my situation and works for others.

I find it very puzzling too. I second @WIMMPYIII's recommendation to check the voltages under load in both cases. The NF-488 has DC barrel jacks for testing a PSU connected to "DC In" and a powered device, in this case the Tycon PSE, connected to "DC Out". It can also be tested using two Tycons back-to-back (POE IN/OUT connected together) and a load tester on the "DC IN/OUT" of the second, but load testers may be more difficult because of the higher powers involved; you need to know the approximate current load in the failing system first, or just wing it and hope you don't destroy the load tester.

You are chaining a "boost" converter (12->48V) to one or more "buck" converters in the dish/antenna. The latter converts the 48V back to electronics levels, typically 3.3V or 5V these days. The snow melt may also use a buck or even boost converter but is more likely IMO to just use the original 48V switched on and off as required (possibly using PWM). There should be no problem with any of this, e.g:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/231668/chaining-buck-converters

The connection, via the PSE and the ethernet transformers, ends up being just a pair of conductors stranded out of four of the eight 24AWG Cat5e conductors each. There's no net inductance in the leads and relatively small capacitance from the high frequency RC filters (resistor->capacitor->ground) used to remove spurious in-phase signals on the conductor pairs.

Buck and boost circuits are pretty much identical, e.g. see the circuit diagrams here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck%E2%80%93boost_converter

You could try checking the capacitor on the output side of your boost converter. It has to be sufficient to support the peak load current but, since it is feeding into a boost converter which has its own output capacitance excessive ripple may only cause a drop-out intermittently. To test a system under load put an AC voltmeter across the output of the boost converter. Better use a multi-meter that supports display of AC and DC voltage at the same time (Flukes do, others do too). Best is to find peak-peak of the AC but RMS x 1.4 (sqrt(2)) is probably enough for this. If the AC can reduce the DC below some critical voltage the buck converter on the other end might be unable to keep up the output.

It's also possible to use a Fluke or other multimeter with "fast min-max" to try to detect the minimum voltage over an extended period, but I don't know if that would be fast enough to see a significant dropout in the voltage.

I ordered this 10-20VDC to 52v booster i will try when i get some free time.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803129874148.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US