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Hacking the Rectangular Starlink Dishy Cable
@morehardware
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Ive had some difficulty converting my Starlink to 12 volts. I terminated my stock cable and built my own POE using the typical components described in youtube vids and Reddit forums confirmed to be working - 12 volt to 48V 3amp step up powersupply , Tycon POE injector. I put the Starlink in Bridge mode, hooked everything to a GL-Inet Beryl router wan port with the properly terminated ends (one swapped and the other not) and powered it up. The Starlink would attach for 30 seconds and then disconnect. I left it in this cycle for 3 hours and still no IP. I am mounting this on the roof of my van and my cable runs are extremely short. My gut feeling was that my power supply was too weak. I am plugging it into 15amp fused cigarette lighter socket. I bought a Mean well DDR120c and cranked it up to 50 volts and tried again but I am getting the same error. I was about to give up when I found a person using a 120volt to 48 volt stepdown transformer. I bought one and hooked it to a brand new Tycon POE Injector and it attached and acquired an IP successfully. There is obviously a difference in the 48 volts 3A coming from the 120 volt Power transformer and the Mean Well Converter at 48 volt 2.5 amps (besides the .5 amps) . The Mean Well has seemed to be a pretty dependable power supply for this MOD. I even tried to hook the Mean Well directly to a 12 car battery. Using 12 gauge wire all around. Any ideas about why my 12 volt to 48 volt system wont stay connected. but my 120 volt to 48 volt system works great?

![Screenshot 2023-02-01 at 9 18 33 PM](https://
Screenshot 2023-02-01 at 8 39 25 PM
user-images.githubusercontent.com/124229469/216238183-446fe523-4a24-413c-9be1-24a14363dda8.png)
IMG_0876

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 2, 2023

I bought one and hooked it to a brand new Tycon POE Injector and it attached and acquired an IP successfully.

One potential weak point is the ethernet transformer chip used inside the PoE. There are a lot of these chips around but most of them only have a "30W" or "60W" capability. So far as I can see the transformer must be one of the newest ones designed for the highest power (class 8) 802.3bt; these have to support a continuous 99W at the PSE and I think that means 960mA/pair or 480mA/conductor. Even then, if the numbers are right, the transformer is being run over-powered. You seem to have the right Tycon injector, but they may use that box for lower power devices. Check what you have against the Tycon data:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/PoE-Injectors_c_172-1-2.html

(Search for the actual model number on that page.) I intend to double check the McCown and the Tycon (I have both) but the number given above for the McCown injector seems to correspond to a Pulse Electronics 30W (802.3at) transformer.

It would be a useful test to swap the old Tycon injector back without changing the setup to see if this has failed or not.

The likely failure point is startup of a cold dish. If "snow melt" is turned on this will draw maximum power. It's not clear to me that higher voltage helps here; heaters are normally purely passive so a higher voltage increases the current requirement in proportion. There are cheaper testers on Amazon that can test the actual power delivery:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08B46PMV3

But if the current goes over the limit something is likely to break... Check the output voltage of the two 48V supplies under load; at 2.4A. I do have one of those supplies (the first, switching, 3A/48V PSU) so I'm going to try to test that. It would be interesting to know which of them generates the lower voltage. The regular (non-switching) PSU will probably also have considerable ripple; who knows, that might help!

I couldn't work out which systems you have working. It seems the 48V/3A didn't work and neither did the Mean Well initially. They are both switching PSUs. Then there was a step down transformer system which seems to be the approach in your picture. Those are pretty hard to come by these days and the peak voltage one would deliver is almost 68V; the actual output depends on the voltage regulator inside the PSU, if there is one.

I've also encountered one 12V high current (10A or something like that) switching PSU which could not supply a low current (below 1A); it would just stop working. This seems to be a feature of high current PSUs, but it may be just a fault in the one I was trying to use.

In any case I have snow melt turned off; it's a persistent setting on the StarLink antenna (the dish). I might experiment with turning it back on but only if I have it powered through the StarLink kit (i.e. from the router). I want to find out what the actual current draw is first and I want to compare it with "preheat". There's no pre-heat only setting though, so if "snow melt" draws the kind of current people are suggesting it's pretty much useless without special ethernet transformers. I've seen 185W quoted, but that is almost twice what Oleg Kutkov quotes the router PSE as being able to output (120W):

https://olegkutkov.me/2022/04/10/initial-analysis-of-the-starlink-router-gen2/

It may be that the router has a slow turn-on or, indeed, maybe it is doing full 802.3bt with LLDP to negotiate power with the antenna? I'm still at the stage of needing to make test leads (SPX to RJ45) before I can find out more.

@torrmundi
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McCown 800-GIGE-APC transformer data sheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CN1s0zdzvzn7WFps7vP6IgSC8o0_H3rV/view?usp=share_link
Dishpowa transformer data sheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/10vF1zdiZoWkZGcegcOFoDLXQ6KCrkKwQ/view?usp=share_link

I blew out a Tycon POE-INJ-1000-WT transformer (unmarked part) and it shorted 1,2,4,5 to 7,8 and killed my dishy permanently. I could not find any fault in my wiring - I think the transformer chip simply overloaded.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 2, 2023

Note that Tycon make two of these:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/poe-inj-1000-wt Gigabit Passive PoE Injector/Splitter with LED Indicator. Injects or splits DC power on all 8 wires. 1245(+) 3678(-). Wire terminal connector. 2.25A. VIN=VOUT. Ubiquiti airFiber

https://www.tyconsystems.com/poe-inj-1000-wtx Gigabit Passive PoE Injector/Splitter with LED Indicator. Injects or splits DC Power on all 8 wires. 1278(-) 3645(+). Wire terminal connector. 2.25A. VIN=VOUT

The first (without the "x") is the standard 802.3af etc approach which puts the power across the transmit/receive pairs of a single channel; 12-36 (orange green) is the first channel used in half-duplex (4 conductor) pairs and 45-78 is the second channel for full duplex

The second one puts the positive on the middle four pins, 4536 (red, green pairs) and the negative on the outer (1278, orange brown) pairs. So plugging a WTx injector into any regular device with 4 pair PoE put a positive and a negative together on the pairs which normally supply either the positive or negative. On a diode protected PD this is no problem; the diodes route the positive or negative to the right place. On something with no diodes there is a short circuit that will instantly blow out the ethernet transformers in one or both ends (or a mixture of the two).

The StarLink is, I believe (DO NOT RELY ON THIS STATEMENT - check yourself) 1236+, 4578- Note that the WTs both put useable power on each half-duplex but that StarLink does not. The Tycon WT has 12(+)36(-), 45(+)78(-) and the Wtx has 12(-)36(+), 45(+)78(-) the latter corresponds to T-568A where green/orange (12, 36) are swapped relative to T-568B. Whereas StarLink has 12(+)36(+) 78(-)45(-) One half-duplex pair-of-pairs is wired positive, the other negative. Presumably there is some benefit to this...

The obvious protection is to wire four IN4005 diodes in the right direction from the PSU to the center taps of the transformers in the PoE injector. That protects both ends (PD and PSE) except that the PD might end up with positive and negative supply rails swapped. Better is to protect the PD, but that increases the power requirement at the PSE injection point (until if the diodes are in the PSE, before the injection point).

EDIT (important): diodes in the PSE will not help. The diodes have to be in the PD to prevent miswiring at the PSE or PD end from connecting the PSE + directly to the PSE -. Given that @OleksandrSimakov apparently fried at least the PSE with the Tycon WTX it certainly sounds like the Dish does not have protection diodes. Aargh; they should have put protection diodes in and gone with a higher voltage; at least 57.6V. the diodes will output a small number of watts, but only if pre-heat or snow-melt is on when, surely, it doesn't matter...

@morehardware
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morehardware commented Feb 2, 2023 via email

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 3, 2023

I purchased a POE Tester (Noyafa NF488S) from Amazon. There were issues:

  1. cannot test Starlink non-standard 4PPoe
  2. does not measure standard 4PPoe power correctly
  3. does not indicate positive or negative voltages on 4PPoe wires

Results:
With 4pair PoE injecter, Tycon, 1,2,4,5 (V+) 3,6,7,8 (V-)

  • the tester showed midspan with all 8 lines as active, but not which are positive or negative. Voltage was measured.
  • the tester, with no PD connected, showed that 15W was being dissipated
  • the tester, with a PD connected (Peplink Max BR1 Mini), showed that 19W was dissipated

With Starlink cable, midspan, 1,2,3,6 (V+) 4,5,7,8 (V-)

  • "unknown" was displayed, and no lines as active. Voltage was measured.
  • 0.0W power measurement
  • The cable was able to be used for data transmission, with the tester inserted midspan

@jbowler did you use the TRENDnet Inline PoE Tester, TC-NTP1 successfully?

@morehardware
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morehardware commented Feb 4, 2023 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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Didn't even know there was such an instrument. I was thinking that another way to decrease the power draw of Dishy besides turning snow melt off would be to disconnect the motors . I plan to flat mount it anyways . It’s works very dependably on the 120 volt to 48 volt transformer direct to Tyco Poe. Seems the Poe is working. Maybe there are different qualities of Poe that may only work with certain “types” of 48 volt dc power. I’m puzzled why 48 volts doesn’t work with 12 volt sources switch the TYCO in my situation and works for others. Get Outlook for iOShttps://aka.ms/o0ukef

________________________________ From: torrmundi @.> Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 3:04:39 PM To: torrmundi @.> Cc: Comment @.>; Manual @.> Subject: Re: darconeous/rect-starlink-cable-hack.md @torrmundi commented on this gist.
________________________________ I purchased a POE Tester (Noyafa NF488S) from Amazon. There were issues: 1. cannot test Starlink non-standard 4PPoe 2. does not measure standard 4PPoe power correctly 3. does not indicate positive or negative voltages on 4PPoe wires Results: with 4pair PoE injecter, Tycon, 1,2,4,5 (V+) 3,6,7,8 (V-) * the tester showed midspan with all 8 lines as active, but not which are positive or negative. Voltage was measured. * the tester, with no PD connected, showed that 15W was being dissipated * the tester, with a PD connected (Peplink Max BR1 Mini), showed that 19W was dissipated with Starlink cable, midspan, 1,2,3,6 (V+) 4,5,7,8 (V-) * "unknown" was displayed, and no lines as active. Voltage was measured. * 0.0W power measurement * The cable was able to be used for data transmission, with the tester inserted midspan @jbowlerhttps://github.com/jbowler did you use the TRENDnet Inline PoE Tester, TC-NTP1 successfully? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4459194 or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A5TZOXIDUMW7QZVRA4RYSMDWVWFIRBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOShttps://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Androidhttps://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

Did you compare exact voltage and amperage numbers as well as fluctuation between the 12 vs 120 converter? My guess is the 12 to 48 is not holding high enough volts or amps for the dishy's power regulator. And if you are running close to the edge on that power regulator that potentially creates more heat and stress.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 4, 2023

@jbowler did you use the TRENDnet Inline PoE Tester, TC-NTP1 successfully?

@torrmundi: I haven't received it yet, it should come early next week. I did also order one of the NF488 testers, possibly a slightly different revision since mine is NF-488 not NF-488S. Mine seems to work better than yours; I've done limited testing and it correctly identifies 802.3af and at, mode A (4 pairs, channel 1) and AB (both channels). It doesn't support 802.3bt and plugged into a bt switch it reports it as 802.3at with "4 pairs". The power rating when used with a PD on the PoE "Out" RJ45 seems credible. I suggest testing the accuracy of the DC out and DC in ports if you have a load tester (not that they are necessarily that accurate ;-). It's certainly a return if that doesn't work. On mine the "loopback" port doesn't seem to work but that might be my managed switches rejecting a loopback connector.

I believe the polarity of the channels is reported by the voltage; plugged into a switch with 802.3af I get a negative voltage but into the 802.3bt capable switch the voltage was positive. It would be much better if the pins were displayed with "+", "-" or " " underneath. I haven't tested with passive injectors yet; I've only had the tester 12 hours.

With Starlink cable, midspan, 1,2,3,6 (V+) 4,5,7,8 (V-)

I'm not surprised that gave "unsupported"; channel 1 is (all) positive and channel 2 negative. I haven't hacked the test leads for StarLink together yet but my default would be to fabricate swapped 36/45 pairs at both sides then I would expect to see the tester report something; the swapping makes the tester see 1,2,4,5(V+) 3,6,7,8(V-) which corresponds to the POE-INJ-1000-WT that I have and 802.3a[ft] modes A and B. BTW Tycon sells these injectors direct for $10 each and currently has 2683 (or so) in stock. Shipping is $6 USPS; cheaper than anything on Amazon.

As for the McCown I couldn't access your links; Google Drive shareable links normally work just fine for me so I think they might be something else (like the thing on the address bar when a shareable link is created?) I did get home and eyeball my own McCown 800-GIGE-POE-APC (i.e. the Cat5e APC version, not the Cat6 APC version). The transformer is a LINK-PP LP6062ANL:

http://www.link-pp.com/?product/201408082292.html

From the datasheet the current rating (for PoE) is "720mA continuous over 4 pairs", further described on the second page as "[e]xceeds 802.3at requirements with up to 720mA DC supply current over 2 or 4 pairs". This is better than the Pulse Electronics H6062NL component which it claims it's a clone of:

https://productfinder.pulseelectronics.com/part/h6062nl

The datasheet for that states, "DC CURRENT/VOLTAGE RATING 350mA MAX @57V (CONTINUOUS)", I assume that is per pair so a total current delivery/return of 700mA for 39W. So this is not an 802.3bt capable part. The maximum using 60V would be under 45W at the PSE (less at the dish of course).

I assume the Tycon parts, despite being so cheap, are using 802.3bt capable transformers; the input is up to 2.25A at 80V which means that can handle 180W at the PSE. I haven't worked out how to pop the Tycon box open yet but I think I will use the McCown for testing since the jumpers allow testing on individual pairs and I have Snow Melt off, then use a Tycon and probably order a couple more for disassembly/testing.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 4, 2023

@morehardware:

Maybe there are different qualities of Poe that may only work with certain “types” of 48 volt dc power. I’m puzzled why 48 volts doesn’t work with 12 volt sources switch the TYCO in my situation and works for others.

I find it very puzzling too. I second @WIMMPYIII's recommendation to check the voltages under load in both cases. The NF-488 has DC barrel jacks for testing a PSU connected to "DC In" and a powered device, in this case the Tycon PSE, connected to "DC Out". It can also be tested using two Tycons back-to-back (POE IN/OUT connected together) and a load tester on the "DC IN/OUT" of the second, but load testers may be more difficult because of the higher powers involved; you need to know the approximate current load in the failing system first, or just wing it and hope you don't destroy the load tester.

You are chaining a "boost" converter (12->48V) to one or more "buck" converters in the dish/antenna. The latter converts the 48V back to electronics levels, typically 3.3V or 5V these days. The snow melt may also use a buck or even boost converter but is more likely IMO to just use the original 48V switched on and off as required (possibly using PWM). There should be no problem with any of this, e.g:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/231668/chaining-buck-converters

The connection, via the PSE and the ethernet transformers, ends up being just a pair of conductors stranded out of four of the eight 24AWG Cat5e conductors each. There's no net inductance in the leads and relatively small capacitance from the high frequency RC filters (resistor->capacitor->ground) used to remove spurious in-phase signals on the conductor pairs.

Buck and boost circuits are pretty much identical, e.g. see the circuit diagrams here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck%E2%80%93boost_converter

You could try checking the capacitor on the output side of your boost converter. It has to be sufficient to support the peak load current but, since it is feeding into a boost converter which has its own output capacitance excessive ripple may only cause a drop-out intermittently. To test a system under load put an AC voltmeter across the output of the boost converter. Better use a multi-meter that supports display of AC and DC voltage at the same time (Flukes do, others do too). Best is to find peak-peak of the AC but RMS x 1.4 (sqrt(2)) is probably enough for this. If the AC can reduce the DC below some critical voltage the buck converter on the other end might be unable to keep up the output.

It's also possible to use a Fluke or other multimeter with "fast min-max" to try to detect the minimum voltage over an extended period, but I don't know if that would be fast enough to see a significant dropout in the voltage.

@WIMMPYIII
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I ordered this 10-20VDC to 52v booster i will try when i get some free time.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803129874148.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US

@morehardware
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morehardware commented Feb 5, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 6, 2023

More on the NF-488 and also on the StarLink router/antenna, though I will enter that separately.

My NF-488 is one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GK7CGGD

I've done more extensive testing including, finally, putting it between the router and the dish. I did see the strange wattage behavior @torrmundi reported but I still find the device useful. No doubt one of the Fluke testers would be a lot better but that is comparing something that costs $36 with something that costs $1400. I hope to receive the TRENDNet tester on Monday and that may better handle the protocol stuff than the NF-488 because supposedly it recognizes 802.3bt.

On the NF-488 most of the stuff works just fine; cable continuity is clear and precise, though it doesn't recognize a cross-over cable (it does correctly display the cross-over). DC power tests seems fine, as I said before. The loopback is apparently non functional; I can here a relay clicking on when I activate it but none of the switches I've tried give any indication of a loopback.

The device uses different RJ-45 jacks for different tests, which is ok, however the PoE tests use the same two ports and this can create wackiness; entering the PoE test mode starts the "inline test", pressing "OK" does the PSE test. Pressing OK during an "inline" test, i.e. while a PD is connected to the PoE out jack, somtimes, often, messes things up. It's not just the tester that gets messed up, well, probably it's not the tester at all, but the PSE and the PD can end up behaving weirdly.

The tester displays a "wattage" in both PSE test and in-line mode. In the PSE test mode it's not clear what the wattage is, maybe it's some guess at the PSE supported wattage because sometimes the number is very high even though there is no load (other than the tester). E.g. 8.4W with one PSE (consistently) but only a couple of watts with others. The number is not useful.

The tester correctly identifies 802.3af and 802.3at PSEs. If correctly detects Mode A and Mode B, though it incorrectly calls Mode A (power on the data pairs) "End Point" and Mode B (power on the "spare" pairs) MidPoint. It seems from the Amazon page that the TRENDNet uses the same incorrect terminology though it does also include the Mode. It doesn't identify endpoint or midpoint PSEs, how could it? It also identifies "4-pair" PSEs and this is how 802.3bt supplies are listed (unless they swap into af or at mode).

With inline testing the power seems approximately right at least with the range of splitters I have; I don't have an 802.3bt capable splitter or, for that matter, a device that I can test with (except, maybe, the StarLink antenna). I get a credible, higher, value from the tester compared to what I get from my load. All my test splitters are buck converters; the test load gives me about 80% of the tester, which is reasonable for a cheap buck converter.

The NF-488 powers off after a while. This is fine because inline test just keeps on working; the NF-488 seems to appear as a purely passive implementation so it looks, so far as I can tell, like one of the back-to-back RJ-45 female-female connectors.

My best guess as to how the PoE inline measure is done is that the device uses a single Hall effect sensor (like in a DC current clamp ammeter). These devices have the problem of needing to be zeroed and there is no zero interface in the NF-488. They are also not very accurate at low current; 1W at 50V is only 20mA. It is conceivable that the device includes an ethernet transformer, I haven't tested whether it does, but given the apparently low accuracy this doesn't seem likely.

If my assumption is correct the NF-488 requires a "standard" arrangement of PoE on either one or both Ethernet channels. The StarLink trick of putting positive on channel 1 and negative on 2 will just cancel out in the power sensor and cause the NF-488 to see an unconnected PSE. I tested StarLink using reversed green/blue pairs and I got credible (though very interesting) results from the NF-488.

I can't wait 'til Monday when I get the TRENDNet 802.3bt capable tester. Almost as good as getting an ActionMan with an FGMP-15.

@WIMMPYIII
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This is great stuff. Thank you. I will measure the amp draw on both the power supplies ( working and non working) to try to discern the difference . I found this in a Reddit thread that is also discussing the inadequacies of third party power supplies to Starlink . This 12 volt one seems to work better than the Mean Well. DC-DC Converter Module Boost DC Step Up Voltage Regulator CV Stabilizer Power Supply Module 10-60V to 12-97V 1500W 30A https://a.co/d/8AmKplF This worked where a mean well did not.

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________________________________ I ordered this 10-20VDC to 52v booster i will try when i get some free time. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803129874148.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4459920 or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A5TZOXKZP77LQFWYUDVSGJDWV2UY3BFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOShttps://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Androidhttps://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

I wonder how much heat these things produce at max dishy power? Is the fan needed with this level of draw? And what are people putting this into? An enclosure?

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 6, 2023

I tested the StarLink router PoE using the NF-488 PoE (et al.) tester which I described in my previous comment. I have the tester inserted into an Ethernet Dongle cord; this was simply the quickest way of doing it. I'm not going to describe how to put the tester inline here, it seems off topic, suffice to say that I took a mighty cleaver to the Ethernet Dongle cord, chopped it in two, sewed two shielded Cat5e jacks on the exposed ends and put the tester between them. The Cat5e jacks have the blue/green pairs reversed; so pins 4,5 are swapped with pins 3,6 (keep the striped/solid conductors alternating, though it doesn't matter much).

When this is done the NF-488 correctly recognizes the StarLink router as providing "4-pair" PoE and reports voltages and "wattages" which I believe. The "wattage" may well actually be a VA but it doesn't matter with regard to the load on the connections.

The reported wattages vary between around 20W and 66W. I don't know the averaging period, indeed these might be instantaneous values, but they consistently stick within that range and the voltages vary in proportion; pretty much a peak of 48V down to 47V (this is at the PSE of course).

When used as a tester for the router PSE, i.e. with the dish disconnected, the NF-488 cannot identify the PSE. It ends up saying that it is non-standard. During these tests the router maxes out at 2.8V; i.e. with the dish disconnected it supplies no power indicating that it is an active PSE. It may be 802.3bt, as Oleg KutKov suggested, but with wacky wiring; it may even be doing LLDP. This is part of the reason I want to test the setup with the TRENDNet product which, supposedly, handles 802.3bt.

With just the antenna connected and a break-out cable I was able to find the connectivity between the pairs and, most likely, a fault in my StarLink antenna. I measured the Ethernet Transformer resistances. This is across the StarLink 75ft cable, so the resistances I say included the cable. Three of the four pairs sat at around 7.5ᘯ, the fourth pair (78, brown) was an open circuit. I then measured the resistances between the windings. These were around 3.5ᘯ for the positive and negative pairs and around 33kᘯ between those pairs. It turned out that the brown-white connection is broken somewhere; so the brown is continuous and that supplies the DC power (so the negative is over three conductors, not four) but the second ethernet channel is broken. The StarLink antenna debug data backs this up:

{ "dish": { ... "ethSpeedMbps": 100,

There is no other information anywhere that I can see showing that the ethernet is half duplex! Nevertheless that is specific to my, broken, StarLink system. EDIT: it was my error, I had not completely punched down the brown-white wire in the Cat5e jack. I'm back to "ethSpeedMbps": 1000 now.

It is absolutely clear that the PD, the antenna, is an active PoE device. It's implementing some protocol, perhaps 802.3bt with modified wiring. It also doesn't have diode protection against reverse circuit; I was using a Fluke 183 to do the resistance tests and it did not show a diode in the wiring. The router does not implement 802.3af or 802.3at; I'm confident that the tester can detect that and my test was independent of the broken dish conductor/ethernet transformer.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 7, 2023

A quick note on the TRENDnet TC-NTP1:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08B46PMV3

It measures the two ethernet channels separately, so when I put it in my system with blue/green pairs swapped it gets mismatched channels. It still works, but it breaks the StarLink antenna data connection; my router reports that the WAN cable is not connected. It does seem to be more accurate on wattage than an inline NF-488 (compared to the DC port measurements from the NF-488). It would probably not work at all with the McCown setup (because the two channels have no net current flow each). Bottom line is it is probably not the right product for this thread. It does apparently manage to identify 802.3bt, however it is not able to get the StarLink router to offer power most likely because it draws power from the PSE and the router only offers 2.8V or so at startup.

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 7, 2023 via email

@morehardware
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morehardware commented Feb 7, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 7, 2023

@morehardware: Would it not be because the Dishy always engages the motors when you plug in as it boots up.

This is my best guess too. My second best guess is that it fires up the antenna array trying to find all the satellites. If it is the motors that is an inductive load and it is pretty much certain that the NF-488 is outputting VA, not W. This doesn't matter from the point of view of frying the ethernet transformers; that depends on the amperage, but the currents I've seen are well within the range the Tycon supports. Since the peak seems to happen around 30s after boot it may be the cause of your problem.

I can't find any wisdom online about using a switching PSU with an inductive load. There is lots of stuff about switching the load itself of course, but I'm sure the antenna is set up to deal correctly with that. I also don't know from my experiments what the true maximum load, minimum voltage and maximum amperage are. Today's exciting job is to wire one of these into the power supply:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BGPG9NVR

This has minimum/maximum readouts with sub-second sampling; apparently below 0.4s. It's main display is an "instantaneous" reading, actually the average over the last 0.4s but it retains averages since start-up as well.

@WIMMPYIII
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@morehardware: Would it not be because the Dishy always engages the motors when you plug in as it boots up.

This is my best guess too. My second best guess is that it fires up the antenna array trying to find all the satellites. If it is the motors that is an inductive load and it is pretty much certain that the NF-488 is outputting VA, not W. This doesn't matter from the point of view of frying the ethernet transformers; that depends on the amperage, but the currents I've seen are well within the range the Tycon supports. Since the peak seems to happen around 30s after boot it may be the cause of your problem.

I can't find any wisdom online about using a switching PSU with an inductive load. There is lots of stuff about switching the load itself of course, but I'm sure the antenna is set up to deal correctly with that. I also don't know from my experiments what the true maximum load, minimum voltage and maximum amperage are. Today's exciting job is to wire one of these into the power supply:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BGPG9NVR

This has minimum/maximum readouts with sub-second sampling; apparently below 0.4s. It's main display is an "instantaneous" reading, actually the average over the last 0.4s but it retains averages since start-up as well.

It would be awesome to have these numbers documented. Warm boot up, sub 0 boot up, boot up simulating ice or physical block resisting the motor. Heater pre heat, heater auto. Heater off then back on after deep freeze.

@WIMMPYIII
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I would be nice to have something that could to an actual log.
Saw this, i don't know of there are any cheaper options available.
https://powerwerx.com/west-mountain-radio-pwrcheck-plus-usb

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 7, 2023

@WIMMPYIII; there is this too:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I2XI8P6

But, yeah, the dataloggers seem to be expensive. My Fluke 189 can log one channel (pretty much just logging A is sufficient) but I don't have the dongle/FlukeView sw. IRC my oscilloscope has some support for a serial connection and it has two channels. For the moment I'm logging by eye. This is what I have so far, just using the NF-488. First column is with it in in-line PoE mode, second is measuring the DC port to the Tycon. It has no min/max and the numbers change pretty fast. I'm tempted just to take a time lapse series of photographs, or a movie :-)

StarLink antenna power consumption    
Tester NF-488 NF-488 DC
Boot 0~15s 15W 2-7W
Boot 15s+ 20-82W 15-90W
Boot around 30s for several s 82W 80W
After boot 20-60W 15-80W
External temperature (celsius) -1C -1C
With pre-heat 55-81W  
Snowmelt no change  

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morehardware commented Feb 7, 2023 via email

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jbowler commented Feb 7, 2023

I think disconnecting the motors might be a lower draw … can you test again with motors unplugged ?

0.35A, 16.8W flat after stowing. No detectable power/current increase using the NF-488 while stowing or while unstowing. The NF-488 readings jump around continuously while the dish is unstowed. I'm not going to take the antenna apart; if something goes wrong with it I want to be able to ask StarLink for a replacement. Curiously I got the replacement router today and they didn't ask for an RMA of the old one, presumably it is as cheap and unrepairable as it looks. So I need to test that as well then I'll put the new tester inline after that, along with data logging the startup costs with a camera. With any luck the output will be more stable, if not it may be necessary to use an oscilloscope to make sense of the power draw.

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jbowler commented Feb 9, 2023

Here's the current consumption in A for the first five minutes. The horizonal axis is seconds; blue is the average every 5s and orange should be the maximum in the same period (Fluke 189 normal min-max). Note that the two lines come from different boots:

image

I've got average values out to 1200s; twenty minutes, but it's just more of the same.

Here's another boot but showing the average current over each 1s period for the first three minutes:

image

The voltage delivered by the PSU is in the same range as above; within 0.5V of 48V. The PSU is a 3A PSU so isn't near the limit. I got these numbers using the data logging of a Fluke 189, typing them into Excel by hand. The "high precision watt meter and power analyzer turned out to be not very useful. It records a peak current of 14A as soon as it starts up... This was worrying so I used the fast min-max on the Fluke 189 to check the inrush; it was actually 6A!

The problem was that I was powering up/down by pulling the barrel connector on the DC (48V) side. DO NOT DO THIS! It causes a massive inrush. The Fluke fast min-max samples across a time of something like 250us, but all the same that kind of current could cause sparking and maybe damage something. The antenna magnetics are apparently some kind of custom Würth Elektronik 4PPoE++ device; they don't list the part number but other magnetics in the series can go up to 1500mA/pair (per centre tap); so that's a 3A/150W supply. All the same 6A is too much.

I changed my methodology to powering up/down on the AC side; pull the plug on the PSU. This results in a soft start; fast min-max does not register a surge. The initial startup current is around 55mA for the first 5s, it then jumps to around 150mA for the next 30s then goes to the highs seen immediately afterward; 1A at 38s 1.5A at 45s. The long term average is 700mA but as can be seen from the first graph it swaps between around 600mA and 900mA for intervals of maybe 30s.

To get wattages at the PSE multiply by 48. At the PD, the antenna, there will be a 75ft/18AWG drop forward and back; four 24AWG 7/32 conductors in parallel have the same cross-section as 1 18AWG 7/26. The total resistance is about 0.9ohm, so assume 1.5V drop at the PD at 1.5A; multiply by 46.5

This is without pre-heat but the pre-heat didn't seem to add more than 0.25A. Everything seems to be well within the rating of the router PoE; 2A at 48V. I don't know where all this stuff about massive power requirements comes from, maybe the V1 and V2 dishes? Certainly the rectangular dish (V3) does not need more than 96W at the PSE, i.e. more than 2A, whatever the custom magnetics in the dish do.

I also ran the system from boot with fast min-max on the Fluke 189. This gave me an average over an hour of 0.7A and a transient peak of 3.4A. Bear in mind that this is a transient; it's coming out of the PSE capacitor which, as my do not do this above demonstrates is perfectly capable of delivering 6A in a single transient. There does always seem to be a transient in the first minute; presumably the 45s peak above. It varies between boots, one gave me 2.98A the other 3.34A. There was a second transient after about 17m of 3.39A so my assumption is that these transients happen irregularly. I suspect the dish should have bigger capacitors to avoid these transient current surges from the PSE.

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Here's the current consumption in A for the first five minutes. The horizonal axis is seconds; blue is the average every 5s and orange should be the maximum in the same period (Fluke 189 normal min-max). Note that the two lines come from different boots:

image

I've got average values out to 1200s; twenty minutes, but it's just more of the same.

Here's another boot but showing the average current over each 1s period for the first three minutes:

image

The voltage delivered by the PSU is in the same range as above; within 0.5V of 48V. The PSU is a 3A PSU so isn't near the limit. I got these numbers using the data logging of a Fluke 189, typing them into Excel by hand. The "high precision watt meter and power analyzer turned out to be not very useful. It records a peak current of 14A as soon as it starts up... This was worrying so I used the fast min-max on the Fluke 189 to check the inrush; it was actually 6A!

The problem was that I was powering up/down by pulling the barrel connector on the DC (48V) side. DO NOT DO THIS! It causes a massive inrush. The Fluke fast min-max samples across a time of something like 250us, but all the same that kind of current could cause sparking and maybe damage something. The antenna magnetics are apparently some kind of custom Würth Elektronik 4PPoE++ device; they don't list the part number but other magnetics in the series can go up to 1500mA/pair (per centre tap); so that's a 3A/150W supply. All the same 6A is too much.

I changed my methodology to powering up/down on the AC side; pull the plug on the PSU. This results in a soft start; fast min-max does not register a surge. The initial startup current is around 55mA for the first 5s, it then jumps to around 150mA for the next 30s then goes to the highs seen immediately afterward; 1A at 38s 1.5A at 45s. The long term average is 700mA but as can be seen from the first graph it swaps between around 600mA and 900mA for intervals of maybe 30s.

To get wattages at the PSE multiply by 48. At the PD, the antenna, there will be a 75ft/18AWG drop forward and back; four 24AWG 7/32 conductors in parallel have the same cross-section as 1 18AWG 7/26. The total resistance is about 0.9ohm, so assume 1.5V drop at the PD at 1.5A; multiply by 46.5

This is without pre-heat but the pre-heat didn't seem to add more than 0.25A. Everything seems to be well within the rating of the router PoE; 2A at 48V. I don't know where all this stuff about massive power requirements comes from, maybe the V1 and V2 dishes? Certainly the rectangular dish (V3) does not need more than 96W at the PSE, i.e. more than 2A, whatever the custom magnetics in the dish do.

I also ran the system from boot with fast min-max on the Fluke 189. This gave me an average over an hour of 0.7A and a transient peak of 3.4A. Bear in mind that this is a transient; it's coming out of the PSE capacitor which, as my do not do this above demonstrates is perfectly capable of delivering 6A in a single transient. There does always seem to be a transient in the first minute; presumably the 45s peak above. It varies between boots, one gave me 2.98A the other 3.34A. There was a second transient after about 17m of 3.39A so my assumption is that these transients happen irregularly. I suspect the dish should have bigger capacitors to avoid these transient current surges from the PSE.

That is where the mystery is, as 100w at 48v will not run reliably. And will not run at all much past 200ft. But 52v 2.88a will run perfectly at 330ft. Perhaps the factor is less the heater and more the motor? Motor could be hitting gear spots with more resistance causing micro spikes in power. Look at video cards in a PC, you can have a power supply with way higher average watts then it's requirement and yet you can still have problems with it not handling spikes when another brand can have lower average watts but does fine as it handles spikes better.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

That is where the mystery is, as 100w at 48v will not run reliably. And will not run at all much past 200ft. But 52v 2.88a will run perfectly at 330ft.

You need to log the failures as @morehardware did; their system failure did not depend on "watts" or "feet", rather the nature of the PSU. That failure seem to correspond to the high average current right at the start. I've not seen failures with my 48V PSU, even using the StarLink cable. Clearly different PSUs have different characteristics. StarLink sell a 150ft cable for use with a 96W 48V PSE.

It's entirely believable that the very short transients are sufficient to bring down the system if the PSU does not have capacitance to buffer the transient! Step down transformers necessarily have BFCs, as they say, to deal with the relatively low frequency of the supply; 120Hz or 100Hz. I haven't seen a teardown of the StarLink router which gave the characteristics of the capacitors in the PSE.

Classic power supply is to run the high voltage as close to the point of delivery as possible, so even though the StarLink 75ft cable only offers an ohm of resistance (assuming I got my arithmetic right) it's still always possible to run feeder mains voltage cable with any underground CAT5e+ cable to a PSU in an outdoor box. This is better than trying PoE over arbitrary distances, there are simply fewer engineering challenges. At least in the US it meets the code requirements just so long as there is only one outlet at the end of the feeder; it's not even necessary to earth it at the end though I have done so in the past and probably would in this hypothetical case.

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morehardware commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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Hi, I've replaced my POE after burning up the Tycon. I now have the McCown POE. Connectivity/wiring checks out perfectly using 23AWG cables and 56V 3A DC-DC converter. - Starlink Dish Neutrik through hull connector Lightning Arrester McCown POE Peplink router. Yes, I know I don't need swapped pins with the McCown, but the cables were built for the Tycon. So I've jumpered the McCown to act like the Tycon (+ 1,2,4,5, - 3,6,7,8). Starlink is working with the unmodified cable and Starlink router, using AC power, of course. - network and statistics are available in the app when I connect to SL router wifi. Here's the tricky bit: - with or without bypass mode turned on,& using the POE, - my Peplink router won't recognize that an ethernet cable is connected. It sometimes shows "Connecting..." and sometimes "No Cable Detected". (see attached screenshots) Possible causes: a) dishy is not powering up? - I purchased the Starlink ethernet adapter, and inserted it into the stock setup. So I'm using the SL router for power. Peplink is still showed "Connecting...", forever. b) Peplink router cannot work with data or phy layer of dishy? - I switched to a different WAN device in place of the dishy (a Mikrotick GrooveA) and the Peplink router connects and uses it immediately. - As noted above, with stock SL power, the Peplink won't connect. c) data is not flowing through the custom cables+POE+lightning arrester? - I've inserted both a Tycon and a McCown POE as a passive coupler into the working alternate WAN arrangement above. Both passed data just fine. - I've used a commercial cable to connect from SL ethernet adapter <> Peplink router. Still not connecting. Any thoughts?

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Sorry I am struggling to get my head around your setup. If you kept the wiring the same as for the tycon but switched the jumpers to match it the power would be correct but your data would be crossed. Just crimp 658b and set the 800-gige pins to the 4 corners accordingly and see if that fixes it.

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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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This wiring: - Starlink Dish Neutrik through hull connector Lightning Arrester McCown POE Peplink router. is the standard setup for a Tycon POE. It has two connectors with swapped pins, with the result that it is unswapped (only one connector with swapped pins would create the situation you envision, with swapped data). Furthermore, now that I've tested with - Starlink Dish Starlink ethernet adapter <> Starlink router ^-- Peplink router I have the same result ("connnecting....")

On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 12:42 PM WIMMPYIII @.> wrote: @.* commented on this gist. ------------------------------ Hi, I've replaced my POE after burning up the Tycon. I now have the McCown POE. Connectivity/wiring checks out perfectly using 23AWG cables and 56V 3A DC-DC converter. - Starlink Dish Neutrik through hull connector Lightning Arrester McCown POE Peplink router. Yes, I know I don't need swapped pins with the McCown, but the cables were built for the Tycon. So I've jumpered the McCown to act like the Tycon (+ 1,2,4,5, - 3,6,7,8). Starlink is working with the unmodified cable and Starlink router, using AC power, of course. - network and statistics are available in the app when I connect to SL router wifi. Here's the tricky bit: - with or without bypass mode turned on,& using the POE, - my Peplink router won't recognize that an ethernet cable is connected. It sometimes shows "Connecting..." and sometimes "No Cable Detected". (see attached screenshots) Possible causes: a) dishy is not powering up? - I purchased the Starlink ethernet adapter, and inserted it into the stock setup. So I'm using the SL router for power. Peplink is still showed "Connecting...", forever. b) Peplink router cannot work with data or phy layer of dishy? - I switched to a different WAN device in place of the dishy (a Mikrotick GrooveA) and the Peplink router connects and uses it immediately. - As noted above, with stock SL power, the Peplink won't connect. c) data is not flowing through the custom cables+POE+lightning arrester? - I've inserted both a Tycon and a McCown POE as a passive coupler into the working alternate WAN arrangement above. Both passed data just fine. - I've used a commercial cable to connect from SL ethernet adapter <> Peplink router. Still not connecting. Any thoughts? … <#m_5425950872894804033_> — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4466945 or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMHP6UQCL5AIKFPSJWDWWZMLHBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF . You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub . Sorry I am struggling to get my head around your setup. If you kept the wiring the same as for the tycon but switched the jumpers to match it the power would be correct but your data would be crossed. Just crimp 658b and set the 800-gige pins to the 4 corners accordingly and see if that fixes it. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4467108 or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMHYBDGR35PB2HRIKZDWWZ4YXBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF . You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub .

Do you have another basic router you can test with other then the peplink to rule it out as a factor? Or a switch to put between.

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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

my Peplink router won't recognize that an ethernet cable is connected. It sometimes shows "Connecting..." and sometimes "No Cable Detected". (see attached screenshots)

The screen shots aren't there, so far as I can see. This is a cable continuity problem; "no cable connected" means one or other pair is intermittent or open circuit or maybe the channel pairs are swapped.

In this case test end-to-end, or rather end-to-middle. I.e. use an ethernet cable connector from the Neutrik to the RJ45 that goes into the McCown and make sure it's showing the right connection. In this case that is 1-2, 7-8 straight through and 3-6/4-5 swapped; the tester needs to be one of the ones that shows the actual connections, not just pass/fail. Then check from the McCown data in/out RJ45 back to the RJ45 that goes to the router; the connections should be identical to those on the other side. A simply way of doing this in one shot is to take the RJ45's that go into the McCown and plug them into an ethernet pass-through connector. Then the two ends (Neutrik-router) should show straight through. The shield should be continuous in all cases.

Most likely this will be fine; if it isn't fix the problem by testing segments of the link. My original design was like yours; I swapped blue/green pairs before and after the PoE. I came to the conclusion that I don't like this because the wiring of the PoE connections to the antenna is just plain deadly for any normally wired passive PD so I am moving to swap blue/green as soon as possible out of the antenna (that would be the cable to the Neutrik in your case) then back again immediately after the data in/out port of the injector. That's just so much safer.

You can also check the McCown jumper setup; for some reason mine was shipped with the StarLink power arrangement so it had to be changed for "normal". If you plug the McCown in with the PSU disconnected then use a tester on RJ45s at each end (e.g. plug the end RJ45 into the RJ45 port on the NF-488 and do a continuity test) you should see each pair shorted. If you pull all four jumpers off the McCown that should be the only shorts. With the jumpers in the correct positions IRC 1236 should be shorted together along with 4578 (so both pairs are connected in each channel). Once again don't quote me on this - check very carefully!

If you have a good straight-through connection all the way then you need to suspect that the SPX connector into the antenna is fried. This is what happened to my original 75ft cable; I've split and tested the thing all the way back to within 10cm of the connector and orange is shorted (30ohm) to ground, apparently somewhere inside the connector at the cable end. My test kit consists of a broken open StarLink ethernet dongle with the cable cut and an RJ45 plug crimped onto the thick wires. I can plug the SPX connector from the antenna end into this then take the RJ45s on the two ends and do a continuity/cable test. Once again the connection should be straight through in your setup; in mine it is too but that is because I have both RJ45s with blue pair/green pair swaps.

I had cabling problems all the time I was doing this; my error mostly. I found that I can verify the cable setup correctness by plugging the RJ45 that goes into the router into a switch. If everything is wired correctly the switch detects a 1000MBit connection to the antenna about 5s after the power is connected. In fact the router can then be plugged into the switch and it should all work; the switch gives you access to 192.168.0.0/16 so it's possible to see what is out there...

You can also check the resistance of each pair while connected to the antenna with a suitable breakout RJ45 and testing with the PSE disconnected. This helps if there is some poor connection in there. I can't find the core resistances of the Wurtz electromagnetics but you should see each pair with a resistance just a few ohms. When I measured I was seeing maybe three ohms across correctly connected pairs. You should also see a low resistance between the two pairs corresponding to + and the two corresponding to - and around 30kohm between + and -

  • I purchased the Starlink ethernet adapter, and inserted it into the stock setup. So I'm using the SL router for power. Peplink is still showed "Connecting...", forever.

That sounds exactly like my original problem! My 75ft cable antenna connector was fried and the router was fried. With a new cable, a new dongle and the original router I had an internet connection but no ethernet on the dongle. Somehow the short in the SPX connector had killed something in the router that makes the dongle work. Once again plug the RJ45 from the dongle into a switch and see if the lights come on. It took me about 2 weeks to persuade StarLink customer support to send me a new router. At the end I'd already bought a new cable and they didn't respond to my request to refund that cost.

The SPX connector is pretty much garbage. In my case I plugged it in in summer and it failed in winter. I can only assume that the very small amount of water vapour in the sealed chamber that is created when the plug is inserted condensed and shorted enough out to fry the plug. The jack in the mast can apparently be pried out; I'm very tempted to pull it out, cut it off and solder cable directly to it with a swapped RJ45 at the end.

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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

the hAP is operating in Bridge mode, between WAN and WiFi. the WAN port status is "Link OK, running, not slave", but no significant traffic is flowing over this port.

Connect to the WiFi then connect to http://192.168.100.1 (HTTP, not HTTPS). This will give you the antenna web page. Go to Settings/Advanced/Debug Data, scroll down to "DISH" then scroll down even further until you find "EthSpeedMbps"; it should be 1000, but if there is a cable wiring problem it still works but at 100Mbps or maybe lower. I had orange-white disconnected on an RJ45 jack and I got 100... The debug data can be copied by clicking on the weird pages icon at the top right; this makes it easier to read.

You may need to add a static route to 192.168.100.x on your router to get to the page, though it will probably work just changing your machine IP to 192.168.100.42

EDIT: for that matter, given that there are four LAN ports, just plug both the StarLink and the Peplink router into two of the LAN ports (in bridge mode they should all be LAN ports, but to be safe use the ones that are marked as such.) The MikroTik:

https://mikrotik.com/product/RB962UiGS-5HacT2HnT

is just a switch in that mode and if the switch can get packets in it should have no problem sending them out to the router.

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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

I measure any of (1,2,3,6) to any of (4,5,7,8) as 3.4 to 3.6 ohms, on cable connected only to dishy.

That's correct if the cable is not swapped, i.e. you are checking the surge-suppressor connection, not the jack to the McCown (since you put the swap between the two). On regular PoE wiring groups (1245) and (3678) are connected together (via the centre taps of the electromagnetics, and ideally some diodes). In either case the resistance between conductors from each of the two groups should be the PoE signature resistance, I measured it at around 30k.

I no longer have any switches :(

A bridge is a switch and the two LAN ports on the Peplink are too. I'm suspicious of ethernet channel 1 (1236, unswapped) because the Peplink ports are apparently only 10/100Mbps, so they only use channel 1. Hence my suggestion to check the debug data and to try dish->MikroTik->Peplink

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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

I very briefly got access from PC<>SL ethernet adapter<>Dishy with 2nd SL router and original cable. 40Mbps Up/.04 Mbps down. I could see two devices (PC and cell phone) attached via my cellphone Starlink app. Then the app showed 0 devices attached and all data stopped! Now the app shows my cell phone attached, but not the PC.

There are three ways of getting information from the dish; the router if it is connected to the dish, 192.168.100.1 (dishy.starlink.com) which may not work if the StarLink router is connected (so far as I can determine) and, most useful in this case, the StarLink app on your cell connected via the internet; not via the StarLink router.

The latter connects to the antenna via the satellite. No working local network and no StarLink router required. It should display "ONLINE" and the debug data ("THIS DEVICE") should show "Non-StarLink IP address", though if your are connected to the internet via the dish it will show "Starlink IP address". At this point you can "COPY DEBUG DATA" and paste it into something useful, like an email. This is the only way other than 192.168.100.1 of getting the full debug data; the StartLink App displays a sanitised version and it has to be copied out of the app.

Even so the only information in the debug data about the local connection is the speed of the connection.

I can see how if Dishy won't provide any IP to my PC, it won't with a DHCP-configured WAN port on a router, either.

The dish does provide an IPv4 to the router; it doesn't need to be statically configured. I believe it is using DHCP but it's supplying a CGNAT address; the address it provides is the one on the internet side of the gateway. It may well be that there is only one of those per antenna and that it just gets bridged across the antenna, indeed that seems most likely.

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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

I used a GL.iNET Slate (AR750S) in Access Point network mode (basically a bridge mode).

The AR750S also has 10/100/1000 ports, like both Mikrotiks.

Dishy<SL original cable>SL ethernet adapter<>SL Router #2 
                              ^--<eth cable>GL.iNET router<eth cable>Peplink router

The images you posted aren't coming through but I assume this didn't work. It's triple NAT; SL Router #2 isn't in bridge mode so SL Router #2 is offering DHCP in the 192.168.1.0/24 network and it offers it on the ethernet adapter too. The AP is irrelevant; the Peplink gets some random 192.168.1.x IPv4 on its WAN port (this should show up in the Peplink management pages) and tries to add a third layer of NAT to that.

There's a point of failure with the Peplink but it's a failure in a far simpler system where the Peplink is connected directly to the dish. If you want the StarLink router in the picture for power and, more important, customer support put SL#2 into bypass mode and use the above system including the GL.iNET router, at least to start with, to make sure you get 1000Mbps connection lights on the GL.iNet. If you do you should get a Peplink connection that works or at least fails without complaining about broken cables.

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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

ethSpeedMbps: 100, in three different status snapshots.

At least one of the eight conductors is broken or shorted, or, worse, the magnetics inside the antenna are damaged. The fault is intermittent. That's better; it suggests a fried connector which from what you have said would have to be the dish jack or the cable dish-end plug. I suggest connecting Dish->latest official StarLink cable->StarLink Router#2, copying the debug data and editing out everything except the ethernet speed, which will apparently be 100 but should be 1000, then opening a customer support ticket, or reopening the one that got you SL#2 and demanding a fix. If they haven't sent you a new cable yet they will, eventually.

The traditional cable-guy approach is to walk round the connectors and wiggle the wires going into and coming out of them. Sooner or later the problem becomes non-intermittent. If you can repro the 100 speed with the stock kit then my experience with the stock StarLink kit is that a connector is fried. I saw several (3 or 4) stress points in the 75ft cable and I stripped out each of those until I was left with the connector and 10cm of cable. It was also a double failure; when the connector on the end of the cable fried replacing the cable wasn't enough, the router had to go too.

If you don't want to deal with Customer Support and assuming the 100 problem exists in the stock kit you could try cleaning out the connectors. I did this but have so far been unable to remove the (30 ohm) short in the plug hence my previous comments about removing the connectors from the antenna end.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 15, 2023

well, i followed the instructions here with swapped connector from the dishy cable to the Tycon, then the swapped connector to a normal t568b to the router, and nothing happens when i plug it all in. i've got a power switch on a 24v->48v boost transformer which can push 250w. that unit does actually light up, but nothing happens to the dish when i plug it in. no ethernet light goes on on the router port. any ideas?

@morehardware
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I think I figured it out. These connectivity problems had to do with power and POE. In typical POE applications the switch injects DC 48V that after 100 meters transmitting, drops the voltage down to DC 39V which can still satisfied the requirement. The Starlink POE need way more juice than typical POE devices. I got my configurable high power 12v powersupply and learned some things after finally adjusting it to a point where I got a consistent successful Starlink ip connection with speed. The power supply has three adjustments, Input power under voltage protection, current and output voltage. When you attach a 12 volt power supply, there is a yellow LED which indicated that the unit incoming voltage is set too high (default 24 volts). The under current (UV) pot is turned counterclockwise till the yellow light goes out. Next I adjusted the output voltage to 48 volts. I left the current as is since I dont have a good current meter. This initial setup failed like all my other setups. the computer would see the ethernet cable, try to handshake, then disconnect in a cyclic manner. Next I turned up the voltage to 56 volts and the same thing happened but in a longer interval. I watched the powers supply while it was cycling and noticed that the low voltage protection light would flash ever so slightly followed by a loss of connection to DISHY. Basically a warm reset. I think what is happening is that the power demand when the DISHY boots drops the input voltage to a point that Dishy reboots. I then adjusted the current higher but it kept cycling at the same interval. Then I adjusted the low voltage protection lower to the point where I no longer got an led flash when DISHY booted and that has led to a stable 12 volt setup.

This power supply worked when the Cheapo Chineese Bricks, and the Mean Well did not. It has no Documentation in the box but if you read the QUESTIONS AND REVIEWS you can ascertain how to adjust it. Some comments also claim success with the Starlink as well.

DC-DC Converter Module Boost DC Step Up Voltage Regulator CV Stabilizer Power Supply Module 10-60V to 12-97V 1500W 30A
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NM52VV5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1

@WIMMPYIII
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well, i followed the instructions here with swapped connector from the dishy cable to the Tycon, then the swapped connector to a normal t568b to the router, and nothing happens when i plug it all in. i've got a power switch on a 24v->48v boost transformer which can push 250w. that unit does actually light up, but nothing happens to the dish when i plug it in. no ethernet light goes on on the router port. any ideas?

Try with dishypowa or "800 gige poe apc"

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morehardware commented Feb 15, 2023 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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Uploading IMG_20230207_184808.jpg…

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Uploading PXL_20221221_045705930.jpg…

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Uploading Screenshot_20221107-143754.png…
This is the one that comes it a enclosure. Slightly different layout but pins are the same.

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morehardware commented Feb 15, 2023 via email

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bghira commented Feb 15, 2023

i'm using two 400Ah 12v LiFePO4 batteries in 24v series connection, their overall storage is more than 9kWh and i'm capable of pulling more than 400 watts from them without substantial V-drop. the 48v step-up is capable of putting out more than 200 watts, as determined with a load tester. i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse, which is 202 watts.

the one aspect of your suggestion that i feel has merit is the precision required for terminating the connectors. it's entirely possible that my RJ45 crimping tool is inadequate for shielded through-connector termination. i'll have a go at making a "normal" patch cable out of the many dozen feet i've got remaining of the starlink cable, and see if it works that way. if it doesn't, that'll help me determine where to go from there.

this crimping tool does alright with some of the more "supple" CAT5e cable i've terminated, but its blades also seem to be wearing out.

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morehardware commented Feb 15, 2023 via email

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bghira commented Feb 15, 2023

i plugged the Swapped -> T568B cable into something and the port didn't light up :( i wonder if my crimping tool isn't pushing hard enough

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jbowler commented Feb 15, 2023

i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse

I think putting a fuse in the PoE supply (i.e. between the PSU and the PoE) is an extremely good idea. I just put a 2A fuse into my system, so I have a 2A APM (the small automobile size) blade fuse between the PSU:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08889XW1F rated 48V, 3A

and the Tycon injector:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/poe-inj-1000-wt rated 2.25A at up to 80V.

I haven't had any problems so far, but it hasn't been on long yet. Certainly no problems during the boot. I've also turned on "preheat" as a test, I think that maybe adds 250mA to the load.

The fuses I'm using are underrated - they are limited to 32V and this is a 48V system. Technically I should be using the classic cylindrical glass tube, such as a 20mm, but at my own risk I chose to use the blade fuses because I have a whole load of them for various amperages. Full specifications of APM fuses are also readily available:

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electrical-circuit-protection/fuses/bussmann-series-supplemental-fuses/automotive-blade-type/bus-ele-ds-2048-atm-series.pdf

The important thing here is that I put a 2A fuse into a circuit that I know is limited to 2A continuous and which, by experiment (with preheat/snowmelt off) I also know doesn't take even 1.5A for more than 1 second continuous. You can see from the Eaton specification that with this fuse (well, at least if it was made by Eaton...) for the 2A fuse to fuse in 1 second the average current would have to be about 3.4A and I know that the 3.4A transient draw occurs for a lot less than 1s; more than 250uS but certainly less than 1s.

@WIMMPYIII
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i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse

I think putting a fuse in the PoE supply (i.e. between the PSU and the PoE) is an extremely good idea. I just put a 2A fuse into my system, so I have a 2A APM (the small automobile size) blade fuse between the PSU:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08889XW1F rated 48V, 3A

and the Tycon injector:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/poe-inj-1000-wt rated 2.25A at up to 80V.

I haven't had any problems so far, but it hasn't been on long yet. Certainly no problems during the boot. I've also turned on "preheat" as a test, I think that maybe adds 250mA to the load.

The fuses I'm using are underrated - they are limited to 32V and this is a 48V system. Technically I should be using the classic cylindrical glass tube, such as a 20mm, but at my own risk I chose to use the blade fuses because I have a whole load of them for various amperages. Full specifications of APM fuses are also readily available:

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electrical-circuit-protection/fuses/bussmann-series-supplemental-fuses/automotive-blade-type/bus-ele-ds-2048-atm-series.pdf

The important thing here is that I put a 2A fuse into a circuit that I know is limited to 2A continuous and which, by experiment (with preheat/snowmelt off) I also know doesn't take even 1.5A for more than 1 second continuous. You can see from the Eaton specification that with this fuse (well, at least if it was made by Eaton...) for the 2A fuse to fuse in 1 second the average current would have to be about 3.4A and I know that the 3.4A transient draw occurs for a lot less than 1s; more than 250uS but certainly less than 1s.

It's pretty impressive that it can cook 135w fuse.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 15, 2023

@WIMMPYIII : It's pretty impressive that it can cook 135w fuse.

What can cook a "135W" fuse and what is a "135W" fuse; fuses have amperages(A) and fuse times(s).

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 16, 2023

i guess the voltage across pins 1 and 8 should be there even when nothing's plugged in, right? if so, i think this Tycon is DOA because it is not putting out any Voltage.

@WIMMPYIII
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i guess the voltage across pins 1 and 8 should be there even when nothing's plugged in, right? if so, i think this Tycon is DOA because it is not putting out any Voltage.

Or something got shorted.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 16, 2023

i had nothing plugged in, so there's no shorts - the LED for the tycon is on, indicating it has power. if there's any short, it's inside the tycon itself. that would explain why it pulled more than 5 amps.

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torrmundi commented Feb 17, 2023 via email

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Why can't GitHub handle image posts. They never come through.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 17, 2023

@bghira said:

i'm using two 400Ah 12v LiFePO4 batteries in 24v series connection, their overall storage is more than 9kWh and i'm capable of pulling more than 400 watts from them without substantial V-drop. the 48v step-up is capable of putting out more than 200 watts, as determined with a load tester. i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse, which is 202 watts.

You've got the fuse in the wrong place. It should be between the boost circuit and the PoE. I'm amazed a 7.5A doesn't blow too. Putting it where you have it sees the inrush current to start up the boost converter and then it sees the inrush to start up the antenna. There's no doubt that the antenna can pull about 7A for a short period of time during startup; I avoided that in my setup by not hot-powering the Tycon but your boost converter can deliver 10 times the current of my 48V/3A PSU.

If it is the antenna inrush then I think you need to find a way to do a soft-start. My system survived that 7A inrush but I really don't think it's a good idea to let it happen. A current limiter would help:

https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/analogue_circuits/power-supply-electronics/current-limiter-circuit.php

Remember that I measured (almost) 7A from a 3A PSU. It is very likely that it was limited to 7A by the PSU; see the comments in the above article.

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jbowler commented Feb 17, 2023

Why can't GitHub handle image posts. They never come through.

Some of them do; I believe my Excel charts (PNG images) appeared fine, right? Log in to github, go to the post, edit and and simply drag'n'drop the image into the message. It is necessary to wait for the image to be uploaded to github.com; some of the previous posts with missing images (the links just point to the gist) seem to match the "uploading" display. It looks like the mail gateway for email responses doesn't work that well.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 17, 2023

Just because it's of interest (to me anyway), here are two PoE magnetics modules. The top one is new, the bottom one has been burned out.

Those were the Tycon modules, including the WTx that started smoking? The images did not come through; as I suggested above if you log in to github and edit the message you should be able to drop the images in. I'm interested in seeing the inside of a Tycon (WT or WTx), I only have one and it is in active service :-) These are the faceplates, as images, entered in github by drag'n'drop from the TyconPower website:

poe-inj-1000-wtx 4

That (above) is the WRONG one:

poe-inj-1000-wt 3

That's the right one. Please tell me if the images don't come through!

@torrmundi
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POE magnetics Link LP6062ANL 01
Ok, I am on the Github web site, rather than replying via gmail. Hope this comes through.

@WIMMPYIII
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POE magnetics Link LP6062ANL 01 Ok, I am on the Github web site, rather than replying via gmail. Hope this comes through.

This is the one that got burnt when cross wired?

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 18, 2023

Ok, I am on the Github web site, rather than replying via gmail. Hope this comes through.

It came through. Meltdown. It also looks like the wires in the coils really did burn out.

Praying to the cockroach of electronics at this point that it's my Tycon that will burn out, not the magnetics in the dish :)

@morehardware
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WimpyIII, I have a McCown POE and hooked my power supply to it. But before plugging DIshy into the POE Side can you confirm the cable termination configs with the McCown jumpered like this. I set the pins as suggested (see pic) . From the explanation on this pin setup I think it means I can use a normal ethernet cable from the Data ONLY side to the router. Versus the Tycon required a swapped end from the POE to a T568B to the router. If I use the McCown POE with this pin setting, do I still need to terminate from the DISH a swapped end termination ? That swapped end would go into the POWER DATA side of the McCown. I believe you have a working setup with the McCown POE.

IMG-6217

@WIMMPYIII
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WimpyIII, I have a McCown POE and hooked my power supply to it. But before plugging DIshy into the POE Side can you confirm the cable termination configs with the McCown jumpered like this. I set the pins as suggested (see pic) . From the explanation on this pin setup I think it means I can use a normal ethernet cable from the Data ONLY side to the router. Versus the Tycon required a swapped end from the POE to a T568B to the router. If I use the McCown POE with this pin setting, do I still need to terminate from the DISH a swapped end termination ? That swapped end would go into the POWER DATA side of the McCown. I believe you have a working setup with the McCown POE.

IMG-6217

No swap with the McCown. Use 568B. The only reason for this swapping with the tycon is because you cannot change the power layout on it.
And the picture you have is the correct power layout for the dishy with jumpers on all 4 corners. You should be good to go.

@torrmundi
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Yes, burnt by crossed wires, from a McCown with wrong jumpers.

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jbowler commented Feb 19, 2023

For those who want to get rid of the motors this may help:

https://star-mountsystems.com/products/low-profile-flat-mount-for-rectangle-starlink-dishy

Read the instructions for installing the mount they sell; the pictures reveal a lot about the internals of the ethernet/PoE connection. I would be surprised if the 10-pin ethernet connector on the MB isn't just one of the standard ones. Personally I wouldn't remove the ferrite, it's unclear to me why they do that. It seems a simple connection to a waterproof RJ45 modular jack would solve all the problems of the oxidized/corroded SPX connector.

@petersticks
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Quick question… what is the best and proper way to connect the AC adapter to the McCown board? Just cut the cable and connect it?
Uploading image.jpg…

@WIMMPYIII
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Yes, sorry your picture isnt showing. If you are using a power pack style AC-DC with a lead plug already on it easiest way is to cut it off and crimp directly to whatever wire you are running to the injector or directly to the injector if you dont have any distance. I usually crimp to cat6 orange and brown + and green and blue - but mine are almost always 100ft or more to the injector and another 100-200ft up a tree.

@petersticks
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petersticks commented Feb 21, 2023

Yes, sorry your picture isnt showing. If you are using a power pack style AC-DC with a lead plug already on it easiest way is to cut it off and crimp directly to whatever wire you are running to the injector or directly to the injector if you dont have any distance. I usually crimp to cat6 orange and brown + and green and blue - but mine are almost always 100ft or more to the injector and another 100-200ft up a tree.

Thank you! Do I need to cut the wire before (exclude) or after (include) the ferrite bead? I cut it after and there is a center wire (positive) and shielded wire (negative) around that center one. Thanks again.

@WIMMPYIII
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On the reolink 52v the center is the positive and the outer wire is the ground. The ferrite I have done with and without and have not noticed any differences.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 22, 2023

new router/cable showed up yesterday so i attempted to use the new router with the RJ45 splicing technique to reuse the existing cable end from the roof, it turns out, however, that the connector at the dishy end of the cable is just absolutely garbage. I don't understand, because I used dielectric grease when installing. It worked great for a while. Then suddenly stopped working.

Replacing the entire cable temporarily with the brand new one (proprietary, in-tact) it works properly.

this is a shame, but the next step for me is to just cut the proprietary connector out of the dishy and use RJ45 the whole way through.

@WIMMPYIII
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new router/cable showed up yesterday so i attempted to use the new router with the RJ45 splicing technique to reuse the existing cable end from the roof, it turns out, however, that the connector at the dishy end of the cable is just absolutely garbage. I don't understand, because I used dielectric grease when installing. It worked great for a while. Then suddenly stopped working.

Replacing the entire cable temporarily with the brand new one (proprietary, in-tact) it works properly.

this is a shame, but the next step for me is to just cut the proprietary connector out of the dishy and use RJ45 the whole way through.

That is what I would do.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 22, 2023

[T]he connector at the dishy end of the cable is just absolutely garbage.

Not just the plug, the jack/socket in the dish mast too. I couldn't work out what the problem was for several days until I eventually cut the dish-end plug off the cable and checked it carefully; the orange and orange/white conductors were both shorted to ground. I think I detailed the cleaning I did above (DeoxIt, WD40 contact cleaner, water hydrogen peroxide) and this was not sufficient to "unshort" the solid orange.

However the dish jack also shows extra resistance (about 2ohms) on the solid orange connector even after I cleaned it several times. My system is working with that. I cut the dish-end plug off a new cable and used Deoxit F5 on both the plug and the jack. Nevertheless I don't like having that extra 2 ohms. Sure it's only one conductor but it's a specific failure point and it should take 1/4 of the current, about 0.4A continuous as measured. It will take less because of the higher resistance, 6 ohms vs 4 ohms in the other conductors, but it's going to dissipate significant power at the oxidized contacts.

When it fails (I'm sure it will) I'll pry the jack out of the mast and do the same thing. The link I posted above shows how to pry the jack out of the end of the mast and it looks like there is going to be enough flex in the lead to cut the inline jack off and do a solder/heat shrink join on all eight conductors. Heat shrink tubing with glue is appropriate here because it will provide a waterproof connection. I'll probably use the heat shrink butt connectors with internal heat melt solder, they work pretty well, though I do twist the conductors together and put a drop of flux on them too.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 22, 2023

yeah i already use the star-mount systems flat kit. but it doesn't encourage you to replace the proprietary jack (yet).

i opened up the very first router, the one that stopped outputting voltage of any kind, and found that it burned two or more of its pads out. the connector was no longer actually connected to the board. the tiny pads and wires that they're mounted through look rather inadequate.

same thing with the Tycon that i have that doesn't work. it has some pads blown out. in both cases for the SL router and the Tycon, the pads are gone. not just detached.

i would just get ahead of the issue and replace the crappy connector before it does greater damage.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 24, 2023

yeah i already use the star-mount systems flat kit. but it doesn't encourage you to replace the proprietary jack (yet).

If you've gone that far you've had access to the motherboard to disconnect the motor connector. The ethernet connector is in there too, just a 10-pin standard (I'm pretty sure) connector. Most likely 8 ethernet conductors plus two shield but the pictures I have aren't clear enough to be sure. Crimping a new connector with the StarLink cable and a new ferrite should allow the perfect solution. The StarLink cable seems pretty good, I believe it's the SPX connectors that are the problem.

I want to maximize my chances of getting a replacement from the StarLink customer support, when he comes back from his vacation. At this point that means preserving the connector even though I know it's damaged. At some point I will have to decide whether to just try to pull out the connector and solder it out of the way or to dremel the whole back off the dish. My inclination is to do the latter - I can flat mount it on my roof which, by design, points north-south and has about the optimal angle. I'll pull the MB connector and use some of the ~140ft of StarLink cable I have to wire it back to the PoE.

[I]n both cases for the SL router and the Tycon, the pads are gone. not just detached.

I haven't dremeled my defective router open yet. Just want to make sure the StarLink mgmt doesn't want it back. Even so mine failed gradually; disconnects over a period of several hours then permanent death. The problem might be caused by a short in the rectangular bit; a failed SPX connector at the antenna can certainly cause a Tycon or a McCown to blow out in this way because they are passive. The StarLink router PoE should be able to manage better but maybe it doesn't.

the ****** connector

I agree 110%

@torrmundi
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Oleg Kutkov has modded the rectangular dishy with an outdoor ethernet connector
See [https://olegkutkov.me/2022/03/07/reverse-engineering-of-the-starlink-ethernet-adapter/]
image

If you've gone that far you've had access to the motherboard to disconnect the motor connector. The ethernet connector is in there too, just a 10-pin standard (I'm pretty sure) connector. Most likely 8 ethernet conductors plus two shield but the pictures I have aren't clear enough to be sure. Crimping a new connector with the StarLink cable and a new ferrite should allow the perfect solution. The StarLink cable seems pretty good, I believe it's the SPX connectors that are the problem.

I want to maximize my chances of getting a replacement from the StarLink customer support, when he comes back from his vacation. At this point that means preserving the connector even though I know it's damaged. At some point I will have to decide whether to just try to pull out the connector and solder it out of the way or to dremel the whole back off the dish. My inclination is to do the latter - I can flat mount it on my roof which, by design, points north-south and has about the optimal angle. I'll pull the MB connector and use some of the ~140ft of StarLink cable I have to wire it back to the PoE.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 24, 2023

Oleg Kutkov has modded the rectangular dishy with an outdoor ethernet connector

I've been working to a large extent off the analysis Oleg posted; the link you quoted. However it doesn't contain the picture you posted. I have weatherproof connectors of that form and they can be used pretty easily in this application yet it is still necessary to drill a hole in the dish reverse. That looks like the wrong place to me because there is a big compartment around the mast entry point containing the motors; it's not enough to get into that compartment, it's necessary to get into the main compartment with the MB to do what I said.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 25, 2023

If you've gone that far you've had access to the motherboard to disconnect the motor connector. The ethernet connector is in there too, just a 10-pin standard (I'm pretty sure) connector. Most likely 8 ethernet conductors plus two shield but the pictures I have aren't clear enough to be sure. Crimping a new connector with the StarLink cable and a new ferrite should allow the perfect solution. The StarLink cable seems pretty good, I believe it's the SPX connectors that are the problem.

yeah i mentioned that already.

also, the shielding isn't really needed. neither is the ferrite core. the ferrite might cause bigger issues tbh.

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 25, 2023 via email

@dreadlordchase
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dreadlordchase commented Feb 27, 2023

I'm looking to ditch the Starlink (rectangular dish) router all together and go with PoE injection. I'm going to use a DishyPowa so I'll just need a power supply. I've seen some linked but haven't been able to get any of them. I did find this one here that will take in 110/120vac and output 48vdc up to 3.13a. Seems like it should work well, but was hoping someone with a little more knowledge could tell me.

@WIMMPYIII
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Reolink 52v 150w used to be on Amazon for $35 but they are out of stock now. Here is one but you will have to get a us plug adapter.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004574962720.html

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 27, 2023

I'm going to use a DishyPowa so I'll just need a power supply. I've seen some linked but haven't been able to get any of them.

The one I linked to is (still) available on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08889XW1F

There's a 2A version on the same page which should be just fine. The Reolink is grounded; the ground (earth) pin of the mains supply is connected to the V- on the output. This varies with PSUs, I don't know about the one that I'm using (above) but I have a separate ground for the dish - I have a surge protector between the dish and the Tycon PoE I'm using.

@WIMMPYIII
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I'm going to use a DishyPowa so I'll just need a power supply. I've seen some linked but haven't been able to get any of them.

The one I linked to is (still) available on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08889XW1F

There's a 2A version on the same page which should be just fine. The Reolink is grounded; the ground (earth) pin of the mains supply is connected to the V- on the output. This varies with PSUs, I don't know about the one that I'm using (above) but I have a separate ground for the dish - I have a surge protector between the dish and the Tycon PoE I'm using.

If you are going to go that route I would at least get the 3a.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 27, 2023

If you are going to go that route I would at least get the 3a.

What is your reasoning?

@WIMMPYIII
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WIMMPYIII commented Feb 27, 2023

These cheap supplies cant keep up nearly what they are rated for. Most people doing DC to DC conversations are actually picking 6-8 amp units because they can better handle the constant lower amp draw.

@crdiaz324
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Has anyone been able to figure out how to power the High-Performance dish off of DC power? I am thinking of getting one, but I don't want to have to go out and buy an inverter just to power it up.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Mar 2, 2023

the High-Performance dish

Which one is that? This thread is about the rectangular dish (the V3, IRC); I don't think anyone has given any information about the newer StarLink offerings.

@WIMMPYIII
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the High-Performance dish

Which one is that? This thread is about the rectangular dish (the V3, IRC); I don't think anyone has given any information about the newer StarLink offerings.

He it talking about the $2500 HP. From what I have seen from it's performance it's not worth it. But there are some people on the Facebook SL hack group that have built DC conversations. I think they powered directly to the PCB pinouts inside the dish.

@torrmundi
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Remember I had the issue with Peplink BR1 Mini WAN port showing "No Cable Connected" when I used a POE and direct connection to Dishy (no SL router + Eth adapter)? Another telling symptom (thanks JBowler) is the exclusive reporting of ethSpeedMbps=100. I have now been able to connect Dishy <> PoE <> Peplink WAN and it works, as long as I set the WAN port speed below 1000Mbps. So 100Mbps half or full duplex and 10Mbps half or full duplex work fine. The setting is reached from dashboard, Wan Connection Status, Details, Physical Interface Settings, Port Speed. So I believe JBowler is correct in deducing that at least one of the four conductors in pair 3 and pair 4 paths has died within my Dishy. SpaceEx can see that there is a problem with ethernet connection speed and has sent me a new cable, new Eth adapter and (not yet received), a new router. None of which will solve this!

@WIMMPYIII
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@bghira
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bghira commented Mar 14, 2023

we're talking about hacking the wire and specs of the dishy on this gist. i know it's not my page, but can you not spam others with irrelevant youtube links? that just feels like advertising that service, which, honestly, who cares about it.

@WIMMPYIII
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we're talking about hacking the wire and specs of the dishy on this gist. i know it's not my page, but can you not spam others with irrelevant youtube links? that just feels like advertising that service, which, honestly, who cares about it.

Sorry to hurt your butt. I was just showing my application of the mod. Didn't realize it would be taken so offensively.

@bghira
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bghira commented Mar 14, 2023

it's not a discord server. it's a technical post. claiming that my "butt is hurt" is also a homophobic slur. that's actually the offensive part, so far. it was a polite request, which you're now lashing out at.

@WIMMPYIII
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it's not a discord server. it's a technical post. claiming that my "butt is hurt" is also a homophobic slur. that's actually the offensive part, so far. it was a polite request, which you're now lashing out at.

Wow...

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