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Hacking the Rectangular Starlink Dishy Cable
@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

I very briefly got access from PC<>SL ethernet adapter<>Dishy with 2nd SL router and original cable. 40Mbps Up/.04 Mbps down. I could see two devices (PC and cell phone) attached via my cellphone Starlink app. Then the app showed 0 devices attached and all data stopped! Now the app shows my cell phone attached, but not the PC.

There are three ways of getting information from the dish; the router if it is connected to the dish, 192.168.100.1 (dishy.starlink.com) which may not work if the StarLink router is connected (so far as I can determine) and, most useful in this case, the StarLink app on your cell connected via the internet; not via the StarLink router.

The latter connects to the antenna via the satellite. No working local network and no StarLink router required. It should display "ONLINE" and the debug data ("THIS DEVICE") should show "Non-StarLink IP address", though if your are connected to the internet via the dish it will show "Starlink IP address". At this point you can "COPY DEBUG DATA" and paste it into something useful, like an email. This is the only way other than 192.168.100.1 of getting the full debug data; the StartLink App displays a sanitised version and it has to be copied out of the app.

Even so the only information in the debug data about the local connection is the speed of the connection.

I can see how if Dishy won't provide any IP to my PC, it won't with a DHCP-configured WAN port on a router, either.

The dish does provide an IPv4 to the router; it doesn't need to be statically configured. I believe it is using DHCP but it's supplying a CGNAT address; the address it provides is the one on the internet side of the gateway. It may well be that there is only one of those per antenna and that it just gets bridged across the antenna, indeed that seems most likely.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

I used a GL.iNET Slate (AR750S) in Access Point network mode (basically a bridge mode).

The AR750S also has 10/100/1000 ports, like both Mikrotiks.

Dishy<SL original cable>SL ethernet adapter<>SL Router #2 
                              ^--<eth cable>GL.iNET router<eth cable>Peplink router

The images you posted aren't coming through but I assume this didn't work. It's triple NAT; SL Router #2 isn't in bridge mode so SL Router #2 is offering DHCP in the 192.168.1.0/24 network and it offers it on the ethernet adapter too. The AP is irrelevant; the Peplink gets some random 192.168.1.x IPv4 on its WAN port (this should show up in the Peplink management pages) and tries to add a third layer of NAT to that.

There's a point of failure with the Peplink but it's a failure in a far simpler system where the Peplink is connected directly to the dish. If you want the StarLink router in the picture for power and, more important, customer support put SL#2 into bypass mode and use the above system including the GL.iNET router, at least to start with, to make sure you get 1000Mbps connection lights on the GL.iNet. If you do you should get a Peplink connection that works or at least fails without complaining about broken cables.

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

ethSpeedMbps: 100, in three different status snapshots.

At least one of the eight conductors is broken or shorted, or, worse, the magnetics inside the antenna are damaged. The fault is intermittent. That's better; it suggests a fried connector which from what you have said would have to be the dish jack or the cable dish-end plug. I suggest connecting Dish->latest official StarLink cable->StarLink Router#2, copying the debug data and editing out everything except the ethernet speed, which will apparently be 100 but should be 1000, then opening a customer support ticket, or reopening the one that got you SL#2 and demanding a fix. If they haven't sent you a new cable yet they will, eventually.

The traditional cable-guy approach is to walk round the connectors and wiggle the wires going into and coming out of them. Sooner or later the problem becomes non-intermittent. If you can repro the 100 speed with the stock kit then my experience with the stock StarLink kit is that a connector is fried. I saw several (3 or 4) stress points in the 75ft cable and I stripped out each of those until I was left with the connector and 10cm of cable. It was also a double failure; when the connector on the end of the cable fried replacing the cable wasn't enough, the router had to go too.

If you don't want to deal with Customer Support and assuming the 100 problem exists in the stock kit you could try cleaning out the connectors. I did this but have so far been unable to remove the (30 ohm) short in the plug hence my previous comments about removing the connectors from the antenna end.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 15, 2023

well, i followed the instructions here with swapped connector from the dishy cable to the Tycon, then the swapped connector to a normal t568b to the router, and nothing happens when i plug it all in. i've got a power switch on a 24v->48v boost transformer which can push 250w. that unit does actually light up, but nothing happens to the dish when i plug it in. no ethernet light goes on on the router port. any ideas?

@morehardware
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I think I figured it out. These connectivity problems had to do with power and POE. In typical POE applications the switch injects DC 48V that after 100 meters transmitting, drops the voltage down to DC 39V which can still satisfied the requirement. The Starlink POE need way more juice than typical POE devices. I got my configurable high power 12v powersupply and learned some things after finally adjusting it to a point where I got a consistent successful Starlink ip connection with speed. The power supply has three adjustments, Input power under voltage protection, current and output voltage. When you attach a 12 volt power supply, there is a yellow LED which indicated that the unit incoming voltage is set too high (default 24 volts). The under current (UV) pot is turned counterclockwise till the yellow light goes out. Next I adjusted the output voltage to 48 volts. I left the current as is since I dont have a good current meter. This initial setup failed like all my other setups. the computer would see the ethernet cable, try to handshake, then disconnect in a cyclic manner. Next I turned up the voltage to 56 volts and the same thing happened but in a longer interval. I watched the powers supply while it was cycling and noticed that the low voltage protection light would flash ever so slightly followed by a loss of connection to DISHY. Basically a warm reset. I think what is happening is that the power demand when the DISHY boots drops the input voltage to a point that Dishy reboots. I then adjusted the current higher but it kept cycling at the same interval. Then I adjusted the low voltage protection lower to the point where I no longer got an led flash when DISHY booted and that has led to a stable 12 volt setup.

This power supply worked when the Cheapo Chineese Bricks, and the Mean Well did not. It has no Documentation in the box but if you read the QUESTIONS AND REVIEWS you can ascertain how to adjust it. Some comments also claim success with the Starlink as well.

DC-DC Converter Module Boost DC Step Up Voltage Regulator CV Stabilizer Power Supply Module 10-60V to 12-97V 1500W 30A
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NM52VV5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1

@WIMMPYIII
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well, i followed the instructions here with swapped connector from the dishy cable to the Tycon, then the swapped connector to a normal t568b to the router, and nothing happens when i plug it all in. i've got a power switch on a 24v->48v boost transformer which can push 250w. that unit does actually light up, but nothing happens to the dish when i plug it in. no ethernet light goes on on the router port. any ideas?

Try with dishypowa or "800 gige poe apc"

@morehardware
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morehardware commented Feb 15, 2023 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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Uploading IMG_20230207_184808.jpg…

@WIMMPYIII
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Uploading PXL_20221221_045705930.jpg…

@WIMMPYIII
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Uploading Screenshot_20221107-143754.png…
This is the one that comes it a enclosure. Slightly different layout but pins are the same.

@morehardware
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morehardware commented Feb 15, 2023 via email

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 15, 2023

i'm using two 400Ah 12v LiFePO4 batteries in 24v series connection, their overall storage is more than 9kWh and i'm capable of pulling more than 400 watts from them without substantial V-drop. the 48v step-up is capable of putting out more than 200 watts, as determined with a load tester. i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse, which is 202 watts.

the one aspect of your suggestion that i feel has merit is the precision required for terminating the connectors. it's entirely possible that my RJ45 crimping tool is inadequate for shielded through-connector termination. i'll have a go at making a "normal" patch cable out of the many dozen feet i've got remaining of the starlink cable, and see if it works that way. if it doesn't, that'll help me determine where to go from there.

this crimping tool does alright with some of the more "supple" CAT5e cable i've terminated, but its blades also seem to be wearing out.

@morehardware
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morehardware commented Feb 15, 2023 via email

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 15, 2023

i plugged the Swapped -> T568B cable into something and the port didn't light up :( i wonder if my crimping tool isn't pushing hard enough

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 15, 2023

i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse

I think putting a fuse in the PoE supply (i.e. between the PSU and the PoE) is an extremely good idea. I just put a 2A fuse into my system, so I have a 2A APM (the small automobile size) blade fuse between the PSU:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08889XW1F rated 48V, 3A

and the Tycon injector:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/poe-inj-1000-wt rated 2.25A at up to 80V.

I haven't had any problems so far, but it hasn't been on long yet. Certainly no problems during the boot. I've also turned on "preheat" as a test, I think that maybe adds 250mA to the load.

The fuses I'm using are underrated - they are limited to 32V and this is a 48V system. Technically I should be using the classic cylindrical glass tube, such as a 20mm, but at my own risk I chose to use the blade fuses because I have a whole load of them for various amperages. Full specifications of APM fuses are also readily available:

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electrical-circuit-protection/fuses/bussmann-series-supplemental-fuses/automotive-blade-type/bus-ele-ds-2048-atm-series.pdf

The important thing here is that I put a 2A fuse into a circuit that I know is limited to 2A continuous and which, by experiment (with preheat/snowmelt off) I also know doesn't take even 1.5A for more than 1 second continuous. You can see from the Eaton specification that with this fuse (well, at least if it was made by Eaton...) for the 2A fuse to fuse in 1 second the average current would have to be about 3.4A and I know that the 3.4A transient draw occurs for a lot less than 1s; more than 250uS but certainly less than 1s.

@WIMMPYIII
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i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse

I think putting a fuse in the PoE supply (i.e. between the PSU and the PoE) is an extremely good idea. I just put a 2A fuse into my system, so I have a 2A APM (the small automobile size) blade fuse between the PSU:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08889XW1F rated 48V, 3A

and the Tycon injector:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/poe-inj-1000-wt rated 2.25A at up to 80V.

I haven't had any problems so far, but it hasn't been on long yet. Certainly no problems during the boot. I've also turned on "preheat" as a test, I think that maybe adds 250mA to the load.

The fuses I'm using are underrated - they are limited to 32V and this is a 48V system. Technically I should be using the classic cylindrical glass tube, such as a 20mm, but at my own risk I chose to use the blade fuses because I have a whole load of them for various amperages. Full specifications of APM fuses are also readily available:

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electrical-circuit-protection/fuses/bussmann-series-supplemental-fuses/automotive-blade-type/bus-ele-ds-2048-atm-series.pdf

The important thing here is that I put a 2A fuse into a circuit that I know is limited to 2A continuous and which, by experiment (with preheat/snowmelt off) I also know doesn't take even 1.5A for more than 1 second continuous. You can see from the Eaton specification that with this fuse (well, at least if it was made by Eaton...) for the 2A fuse to fuse in 1 second the average current would have to be about 3.4A and I know that the 3.4A transient draw occurs for a lot less than 1s; more than 250uS but certainly less than 1s.

It's pretty impressive that it can cook 135w fuse.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 15, 2023

@WIMMPYIII : It's pretty impressive that it can cook 135w fuse.

What can cook a "135W" fuse and what is a "135W" fuse; fuses have amperages(A) and fuse times(s).

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 16, 2023

i guess the voltage across pins 1 and 8 should be there even when nothing's plugged in, right? if so, i think this Tycon is DOA because it is not putting out any Voltage.

@WIMMPYIII
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i guess the voltage across pins 1 and 8 should be there even when nothing's plugged in, right? if so, i think this Tycon is DOA because it is not putting out any Voltage.

Or something got shorted.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 16, 2023

i had nothing plugged in, so there's no shorts - the LED for the tycon is on, indicating it has power. if there's any short, it's inside the tycon itself. that would explain why it pulled more than 5 amps.

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 17, 2023 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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Why can't GitHub handle image posts. They never come through.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 17, 2023

@bghira said:

i'm using two 400Ah 12v LiFePO4 batteries in 24v series connection, their overall storage is more than 9kWh and i'm capable of pulling more than 400 watts from them without substantial V-drop. the 48v step-up is capable of putting out more than 200 watts, as determined with a load tester. i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse, which is 202 watts.

You've got the fuse in the wrong place. It should be between the boost circuit and the PoE. I'm amazed a 7.5A doesn't blow too. Putting it where you have it sees the inrush current to start up the boost converter and then it sees the inrush to start up the antenna. There's no doubt that the antenna can pull about 7A for a short period of time during startup; I avoided that in my setup by not hot-powering the Tycon but your boost converter can deliver 10 times the current of my 48V/3A PSU.

If it is the antenna inrush then I think you need to find a way to do a soft-start. My system survived that 7A inrush but I really don't think it's a good idea to let it happen. A current limiter would help:

https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/analogue_circuits/power-supply-electronics/current-limiter-circuit.php

Remember that I measured (almost) 7A from a 3A PSU. It is very likely that it was limited to 7A by the PSU; see the comments in the above article.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 17, 2023

Why can't GitHub handle image posts. They never come through.

Some of them do; I believe my Excel charts (PNG images) appeared fine, right? Log in to github, go to the post, edit and and simply drag'n'drop the image into the message. It is necessary to wait for the image to be uploaded to github.com; some of the previous posts with missing images (the links just point to the gist) seem to match the "uploading" display. It looks like the mail gateway for email responses doesn't work that well.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 17, 2023

Just because it's of interest (to me anyway), here are two PoE magnetics modules. The top one is new, the bottom one has been burned out.

Those were the Tycon modules, including the WTx that started smoking? The images did not come through; as I suggested above if you log in to github and edit the message you should be able to drop the images in. I'm interested in seeing the inside of a Tycon (WT or WTx), I only have one and it is in active service :-) These are the faceplates, as images, entered in github by drag'n'drop from the TyconPower website:

poe-inj-1000-wtx 4

That (above) is the WRONG one:

poe-inj-1000-wt 3

That's the right one. Please tell me if the images don't come through!

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