Skip to content

Instantly share code, notes, and snippets.

@darconeous
Last active February 21, 2024 00:37
  • Star 97 You must be signed in to star a gist
  • Fork 10 You must be signed in to fork a gist
Star You must be signed in to star a gist
Save darconeous/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee to your computer and use it in GitHub Desktop.
Hacking the Rectangular Starlink Dishy Cable
@dougbrouwer
Copy link

well my Tycon was ruined by the Amazon cheap-ass PSU. when opening it up.

@bghira What's the secret to opening up the Tycon injector? It's not obvious to me. Is it glued shut?

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented May 2, 2023

any of the four connections to the buck converter connected (directly or indirectly) to ground?

Not any any way that's intentional. I'm simply using shielded RJ-45 connectors, and I'm being careful to connect the wire ground to the shield.

I'm not sure what you mean, but if you manage to ground the PoE then it is quite possible that you will blow it.

@bghira
Copy link

bghira commented May 4, 2023

@dougbrouwer a dremel

@Shangrila385
Copy link

Shangrila385 commented May 5, 2023 via email

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented May 5, 2023

Can anyone explain in layman terms how to make a cable to use on starlink that is 300’ long and will work without losing signal strength? The dish is being put on the roof of a high rise bldg. And cable dropped down a shaft to lower floor.

That's actually very easy assuming there is a weatherproof location with power within 150' (or, cheaper, 75') of the dish location. That's pretty much a cert for a highrise. You put the StarLink router in the weatherproof enclosure, connect it to the building supply and connect it to the dish using the standard StarLink cables and the standard (USD25) Ethernet Dongle also from StarLink. Put the router into bypass mode, plug a standard 100m (300') ethernet cable into the dongle and the other end into the router on the lower floor.

There are lots of other ways, including the recently advertized stuff on Amazon that I quoted recently, but they are more expensive and, in most (but not all) cases, involve cutting cables. Easiest is to stick the router on the roof and do the drop from the dongle.

Anyone familiar with ethernet setup will know how to do this once they get their head round the weird StarLink router/dongle arrangement.

@Shangrila385
Copy link

Shangrila385 commented May 5, 2023 via email

@JustOneGuyHere
Copy link

I have a bunch of questions about Starlink cables. Not a regular here at all, and not a techie but also not a total idiot. I don't know if this is the right thread. I'm here because someone posted the link in a Starlink discussion. I don't want to start in on it for nothing.

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Jul 22, 2023

@JustOneGuyHere; it's a gist about getting a cable longer than the official StarLink 150ft cable for where the dish (the rectangular one, the v2 IRC) is more than 150ft from a power source. Since it's about power delivery the gist described how to build a new cable (by cutting the original one) with an additional power (PoE) injector. As a result it covers the wiring of the cable (standard ethernet, non-standard PoE). It applies to other cases where the cable is not that long but where it is desired to get rid of the white "tombstone" router. Things other than PoE requirements are incidental; there's some discussion about other things (e.g. I described one, apparently, common failure mode of the system) but it's slightly off-topic.

@JustOneGuyHere
Copy link

JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 22, 2023

@JustOneGuyHere; it's a gist about getting a cable longer than the official StarLink 150ft cable for where the dish (the rectangular one, the v2 IRC) is more than 150ft from a power source. Since it's about power delivery the gist described how to build a new cable (by cutting the original one) with an additional power (PoE) injector. As a result it covers the wiring of the cable (standard ethernet, non-standard PoE). It applies to other cases where the cable is not that long but where it is desired to get rid of the white "tombstone" router. Things other than PoE requirements are incidental; there's some discussion about other things (e.g. I described one, apparently, common failure mode of the system) but it's slightly off-topic.

I'm a civilian, and as such a little pathetic, but at least I admit it. I think I've learned that the Snow Melt feature winds up melting cables for many users (including us) and that there really isn't a realistic hack for it. I'm also standard user with a 50-foot cable and a dish mounted atop a 10-foot pole near the house. After replacing one cable with great difficulty, I've given up on Snow Melt and have turned it all the way off forever.

I'm told that even without the feature, what's in the dish uses 25-35 watts and generates some heat. Not enough to melt heavy snow (which we get sometimes) but I wonder if it'll be enough to keep ice from forming to begin with. Sorry if this is off-topic. If so, trust me, I'm not any kind of whackjob and will retreat right away. If you happen to be able to answer the ice question, I'd appreciate it. If you can't, I'll understand.

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Jul 23, 2023

I wonder if it'll be enough to keep ice from forming to begin with.

I don't know what failed in your/Starlink's kit, so bearing that in mind I'm just going to state the obvious.

Turn pre-heat on. It will cost you more in electricity but it might stop the snow-melt surge and that might be your problem. It's pretty much not possible to melt that cable, certainly not with the stock StarLink kit, even if the biggest surge I measured (which I don't quite believe) continued for a whole summer (when the cable resistance is highest).

In any case buy a power outlet tester and make absolutely sure the outlet the tombstone is plugged into is correctly grounded. If the outlet tester says anything weird call an electrician. Failing to ground the dish might result in static build up causing a static discharge that is sufficient to fry one of the four connectors. Failing to have adequate grounding in a house is much more dangerous of course.

Bottom line is that you have a failed piece of electrical equipment that indicates a major fault. I had the same problem and my conclusions are documented above, in a lot of detail; I try not to give conclusions, rather I document what I observe. This is github after all. I have my own conclusion which I don't think I've disclosed here but if you read what I said you can draw your own too.

@JustOneGuyHere
Copy link

JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 23, 2023

Bottom line is that you have a failed piece of electrical equipment that indicates a major fault. I had the same problem and my conclusions are documented above, in a lot of detail; I try not to give conclusions, rather I document what I observe. This is github after all. I have my own conclusion which I don't think I've disclosed here but if you read what I said you can draw your own too.

I will check the grounding, but strongly doubt this is the problem. The house was built 6 years ago, and there have been no electrical problems anywhere in the house. The speed first slowed down greatly, then disconnected altogether. After several weeks (typical Starlink -- terrible customer service) a new router and cable showed up.

The new router didn't work on the first cable, and now works fine on the second cable. The issue of fried cables turns out to be common. The four wire pairs are 24 gauge, which is fine until the thermostat in the dish tells the router to increase the amperage to the dish, which heats up the electronics inside the dish enough to melt snow on the dish face. Unfortunately, those very same 24 gauge wires tend to get fried by the extra current, especially in places where there are months of thermostat-dictated heating events, most of which (ironically) aren't even necessary because they were generated not by the presence of snow but only by cold temperatures.

At this point, I've decided to turn off Snow Melt, and only wonder whether 25-35 watts still going to the dish will generate enough heat to keep ice from forming. I know it won't keep snow from accumulating, so I will handle that issue by duct-taping a windshield scraper to an extender pole and wiping snow off. I'm told that the film on the dish is fragile enough to make it inadvisable to scrape ice off, but I wonder whether or not that 25-35 watts of power going to the dish will be enough to keep ice off, or whether I'll just have to turn on Snow Melt during storms and risk another cable failure.

You know, this wouldn't be happening if Musk had simply hired a graduate of Electrician 101 class at a community college to build a cable with 14 gauge wiring inside, but that's not rocket science so why bother? Better to irritate a lot of people and ship out new cables with the same design flaw. It's what happens when you're too cool for school. LOL

@JustOneGuyHere
Copy link

Tested for grounding. As expected, no problem. I have ordered a current meter. Based on some reading, I believe that the router operates at 110-120V and 0.25A without Snow Melt, and at 5A in Snow Melt mode. I don't have a meter yet, but will be getting one and testing it. Given how many cables are being fried by Snow Melt (I'm far from the only Starlink user who's reported the fault), I think the 24-26 AWG wiring in the cables is inadequate for the task.

I will check to be sure, but I am pretty convinced that Starlink under-engineered the cable wiring. As I see it, they went full Rocket Science on the satellites and the dishes, but ignored Electrician 101 when they designed the cables. The remaining question is for how long I can overload the wiring before I fry the wires inside the poorly designed cable.

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Jul 24, 2023

5A in Snow Melt mode. I don't have a meter yet, but will be getting one and testing it.

Please report back on that. I live in SW Oregon so getting the dish to go into snow melt was pretty much impossible.

@JustOneGuyHere
Copy link

JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 24, 2023 via email

@JustOneGuyHere
Copy link

JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 24, 2023 via email

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Jul 24, 2023

I also found a Kill-A-Watt meter, and in summertime (right now), it's drawing 122-123V and 0.35-0.4A with Snow Melt off or on automatic. In pre-heat, it draws 0.9A.

It sounds like you are measuring the current into the router. The power consumption of the router itself should be fairly constant. There will be an extra power draw from the dish, but you can work out the raw power required by the router simply by powering it on with the dish not connected (do not connect or disconnect the dish to a powered on router; this causes a very significant power surge to the dish which is the most likely candidate for frying one or more of the four connectors). See my earlier comment:

https://gist.github.com/darconeous/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee?permalink_comment_id=4479847#gistcomment-4479847

I got my figures using the Tycon power injector described in this gist (not the router) so I was able to measure the current being sent down the cable. I also put a 2A fuse inline with the power delivery so that limits the short-term average current. The fuse never blew even though there is good reason to believe that there is a startup current/power surge which might be as much as 7A for a (small) fraction of a second (hence my comment about about not connecting a "hot" router to the dish). My detailed measurements start here:

https://gist.github.com/darconeous/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee?permalink_comment_id=4463407#gistcomment-4463407

If you look at one of the posts that follow:

https://gist.github.com/darconeous/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee?permalink_comment_id=4466245#gistcomment-4466245

You will see the graph of what actually happens during boot and after. This is using a Fluke 189 logging multimeter, pretty much the industry standard when it was bought for me it but I admit I've owned it for coming on 30 years and never got it recalibrated. The most telling figures might be the ones in the first comment: the dish apparently does consume close to 90W for short periods of time. 90W is the capacity of the router, some injectors can handle more but certainly not all of them.

I believe I left "pre-heat" on after my first post and you can see that the actual dish consumption hits a max of 1.6A but averages somewhere in the range 0.6 to 0.9A. This corresponds to a maximum power of 77W and an average over 5s in the range 29W-43W, consistent with the stated router capabilities.

It's almost impossible to guesstimate the actual power going to the router without a calibration of the router efficiency; the router takes 110-250V input and converts it to its own internal power requirements (5V or 3.3V, probably 5) and the dish requirements (48V). Efficiencies will be in the range 80-90% but the design might be dumb.

Nevertheless whatever excess current is delivered to the router when the dish is connected it is certainly an underestimate of the current going to the dish, because that current is at ~48V.

All the evidence so far is that the design of the dish produces significant surge currents under some circumstances. In particular there is evidence that there might be a very high initial surge if a charged, hot, PoE injector is connected to the dish. This is what I was doing with my Tycon setup and the tester I was using (which I don't trust) reported a 7A surge.

The surge should be no big problem for the components involved because they are mostly passive, maybe all; it's not clear how many diodes StarLink put into the circuit but it sounds like "none", that's one way of getting more power. My own tests prove that in my system the thing that fried was the connection (the connector) at the dish. It fried in a way that is consistent with an instantaneous surge. What caused that surge is impossible to say.

@JustOneGuyHere
Copy link

JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 25, 2023 via email

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Jul 25, 2023

This is consistent what what I've been reading (maybe here?) that the dish use 0.30A with Snow Melt completely off.

That's consistent with my numbers; it would correspond to about 0.6A going to the dish. A rule of thumb assuming 80-90% efficiency in the router is that the current flowing to the dish MIGHT be about twice the extra current to the router. Maybe "pre-heat" increases it slightly but I suspect that will be thermostatically controlled (this doesn't cost enough money for StarLink to cost-reduce it out of the dish). I measure in February, before the current heat but it was still well above 0C.

Our dish is always connected, so what does that mean? It's not as if I climb the ladder and monkey around with the connector.

Don't start up, power cycle, the router without the dish cable connected. I.e. don't plug the dish cable into the router when the router is connected to the power supply; this causes a surge because the router socket is already powered up and the dish is waiting for juice. It says this in the instructions; if you follow the instructions step by step the router is connected to the power after the router is connected to the dish. Of course you have to look at this like a lawyer or a computer programmer to see that as a clear instruction.

@JustOneGuyHere
Copy link

JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 25, 2023 via email

@JustOneGuyHere
Copy link

JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 25, 2023 via email

@JustOneGuyHere
Copy link

JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 25, 2023 via email

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Jul 26, 2023

I did my best to read through the whole thread. It's frustrating because I have only a limited background, and among other things the acronyms have thrown me at times.

It's a long set of comments and there are more questions than answers (like why don't systems running of 12V batteries work as well as 110V systems?)

My answers are cryptic because I do assume a certain knowledge set but for your purposes there a really only two important things to understand. The first is the electrical power equation:

P = V × I

That matters because the dish requires a certain amount of power with any given configuration and the router (or PoE) has to delivery that power; voltage and current don't matter, only the product counts. The second equation is Ohms law:

V = I × R

This matters because the cable itself takes power; the power to drive the current (I) down the line, and that creates a voltage drop across the cable (V).

Maybe the important thing here is that what I was saying is that my numbers (as reported in the various links) are completely consistent with yours, except, maybe, for the pre-heat behavior. The difference is that you measured current at the router power inlet. That inlet takes a voltage between 110V and 250V whereas all my measurements are the current on the cable which has a power supply of 48V (I used a PoE but it is a 48V PoE like the router IRC.)

So the router has to convert 122V (AC) with 0.3A for the dish to 48V with whatever power the dish requires. The conversion isn't 100% efficient but it will be in the range 80%-95%; assume 90% (arbitrary). This would mean that the router/cable assembly are being supplied with 33W at 48V (DC) which is a current of 0.69A.

That's pretty much identical to what I measured; a 5s average of 0.6 to 0.8A, looks like 0.7A to me!

The pre-heat figure is, however, a bit of a problem; 0.9A less 0.07A for the router means 100W, at 90% efficiency that means the cable assembly is getting 90W and this is the quoted (faceplate) limit of the router. It's still well within the capabilities of the cable but it really is flat out for the system design. It's close to 2A up and down the cable (so the cable is carrying 4A total, still fine so far as I can see). Maybe that's the way StarLink designed it and maybe I didn't manage to switch preheat on properly (or maybe StarLink had it disabled in SW Oregon?)

Another question would be whether the cable problem might be not the cable wiring but the connectors. Note that I'm referring to a standard 50-foot cable connected to a Gen 2 dish.

I think it is the connectors but I don't see how anything the router delivers continuously is going to cause a problem.

Then you don't want me to connect the dish cable into the router when it's connected to the power supply, which I take to mean plugged into the wall.

Yes, because of the way the dish power supply inside the router seems to work. I believe it's a fairly basic passive PoE design (I haven't located a circuit diagram for the router so I can't be sure.) It is a passive design (or the hacks on this gist would not work) and I believe it directly converts the AC power at 60Hz/110V or 50Hz/220V to the 48V. This means that it has to retain sufficient energy between the two points where the AC hits 48V; it has to keep on delivering 48V even though the input voltage is less than 48V.

When you connect the dish to the router with the router already turned on my hypothesis is that this energy floods down the cable to charge the various power supplies inside the dish. This is an "inrush" current and it can be very large. Poorly designed (IMO) 19.2V laptop power supplies had a nasty effect of causing an arc - lightning, accompanied by a bang, thunder - when plugged into a power outlet, this happened for the same reason.

So my further hypothesis is that it's simply a bad idea to plug the dish into a powered on router because that inrush can cause an arc in the connector and, given the connector, easily damage it.

Guess what I did when I was first playing around with my new dish? I had it outside on the lawn and, using the 'phone app, I was testing locations. Because I didn't want to have to go back into the house to plug the router into the outlet I disconnected and reconnected the dish cable connection at the dish. As I reported above the connector between the cable and the dish is now fried; both sides. StarLink sent me a new cable but not a new dish... There's still a significant extra resistance in the connector within the dish mast. I've given up on StarLink but if I hadn't I would have got round to pulling out the dish connector (it's not impossible) and soldering my own CAT5e cable to the wires.

That's just my story of course, but I don't believe any of the reports which imply that the router can deliver way, way, more than 90W. (Of course I have a couple of routers now that I can destruction test, maybe I will one day...)

@JustOneGuyHere
Copy link

JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 26, 2023 via email

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Jul 26, 2023

Is there enough resistance in four 24AWG 50-foot wire pairs to care about in the context we're discussing?

No.

The standard StarLink cable is 75ft, there are 8 24AWG wires in there, but they are twisted together so they are very slightly longer than 75ft. Not enough to matter I believe. They are also stranded in the StarLink cable; they are each 7 (or 11, I should count them :-) much thinner (31AWG?) wires but the "24AWG" should take all that into account. I normally find "engineeringtoolbox" to be a good resource:

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html

So each wire is around 0.2mm² in diameter and 8 of them are 1.6mm² This is a "cable assembly" so the whole thing has to be considered as a unit. It is equivalent to a 15AWG wire (a single wire). See this table:

https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

The "maximum amps for power distribution" column is based on power loss; the resistance causing excessive loss of power. The value is 4.7A, so the CAT5E is approaching reasonable limits for power loss (and this is, of course, the point of this gist). The "maximum amps for chassis wiring" is the figure for temperature rise. The figure is 28A; this is the point at which the wire (cable in this case) starts to overheat. 28A is in'n'out; the router would be supplying 14A. That's 672W; well within the capability of a 15A US 110V power supply (1650W) but well beyond what the white tombstone can deliver.

For voltage drop it makes more sense to go back to the resistance of 24AWG wires because the fact that they are grouped together doesn't matter and it's just too easy to make mistakes through unnecessary complication. The standard StarLink cable is 75ft long, the longest they actually sell is 150ft long. The powerstream site gives 25.67Ω per 1000ft for 24AWG; that's actually solid and I don't know which number gets priority to determine AWG, resistance would make sense but I don't know. Using that number there are four conductors in and four out for a resistance of 6.4Ω per foot over twice the distance (there and back) times 150ft, 1.93Ω, pretty much 2Ω. I believe my measurements of the resistance of an actual cable were less than that so that seems a possible upper limit.

So that's a 4V loss for 150ft at the max of the StarLink router (2A). Hence the idea to go to a 52V supply for longer, e.g. 300ft; the standard maximum of the ethernet signal. 300ft at 24AWG (the other recommendation is to go to 23AWG CAT6) drops 8V which, IRC, is the lower limit of the PoE standards and StarLink isn't standard in this regard. For the standard cable the drop is 2V; irrelevant.

These figures are consistent with a reasonable assumption that the StarLink engineers checked what they were doing. I can criticize what they did in other ways, but not this one.

@crdiaz324
Copy link

Have you guys seen this? Here is a kit that plugs right in, avoiding the need to cut or invert your wires. https://techcharmer.com/products/custom-poe-injector

@torrmundi
Copy link

torrmundi commented Jul 30, 2023 via email

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Jul 30, 2023

The YAOSHENG adapter avoids the need to cut the cable; https://www.amazon.com/YAOSHENG-Rectangular-Adapter-Connect-Injector The YAOSHENG PoE injector is rated at 3A, the TechCharmer PoE looks like a Tycon custom build in which case it would be 2.25A. The StarLink ethernet adapter ($25) can be hacked to make an adapter for the end of the cable as well. Cutting the hole removes the need for the dubious SpaceX connectors. I suspect the white plug is a standard PCB connector like one of the JST connectors.

@JustOneGuyHere
Copy link

JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 30, 2023

The standard StarLink cable is 75ft, there are 8 24AWG wires in there, but they are twisted together so they are very slightly longer than 75ft.

Sorry, the standard Starlink cable is 50 feet. It's in their specs, and I confirmed it by measuring the old one that I pulled out.

https://www.starlink.com/specifications

Starlink doesn't say whether it's Cat 5e or Cat 6a. I've seen it described both ways, but as I write I'm inclined to say Cat 5e. That would be 24 AWG. Ampacity for 24 AWG is 3.5.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html

Now for the fun stuff. When my router is plugged in without the cable plugged in, it registers 0.07A at the indoor outlet. When the cable is plugged in, it registers 0.37A. Both numbers vary a bit but not much; the dish is drawing about 0.3A minus whatever resistance is in 50 feet of 24AWG and two connectors. That 0.3A is measured at the outlet, but there's a step-down transformer in the router that converts 120 volts to 48 volts. This turns 0.3A into 0.75A. Doesn't change the wattage: still 36 watts

My next door neighbor, also a Starlink user whose cable crapped out, measured 5A at the wall outlet last winter with Snow Melt running. Subtracting the 0.07A that the router uses, you get 4.93A delivered to the 48 volt power supply. Voltage stepped down, amperage stepped up to 12.5 over wiring rated for 3.5A . Either way, about 600 watts. (Okay, 591.6 minus a smidgen of power loss in the transformer.) It's becoming clear to me just why so many Starlink cables are failing. Would you use Cat 5e (or Cat 6a) to run power to a space heater?

Now that Starlink is fully commercial, it's becoming popular in rural areas. In places like mine, where it's cold enough to trigger the Snow Melt thermostat off and on for maybe half the year if left on the default "automatic" setting, I think this wiring is getting damaged a little bit each time until it finally gives out. I also note that the Starlink router label shows that it's a 2A device, yet my neighbor observed that it was drawing 5A when Snow Melt was running. I wonder if Snow Melt is frying both the routers and the cables.

My big remaining question is: How long does Snow Melt go on when it goes on? My guess is "not for long enough to fry the cables right away." This is why, when I click around and see reports of bad cables, the story is almost always that it worked for X months then suddenly stopped. In any case I will check that this coming December. When there's a storm, I'll sit next to the meter, turn on Snow Melt and watch what happens, and for how long. I see that Starlink says the dish will melt 1.5" of snow per hour. Sorry, that tells me nothing. At what angle? And what triggers its activation?

I am not an electrician. Didn't take Electrician 101 at the community college. I've had to do a bunch of research to figure this out, but the closer I look the more I think this explains a widespread Starlink problem. Finally, we might ask how something this basic and frankly stupid could happen (if I'm correct, that is.) The answer would be rocket science. Musk & Co. put all their brain cells into the rockets, the satellites, and the dishes, and wound up "assuming" the routers and cables. Kind of like when the space shuttle geniuses assumed those O-rings. Smart people are no less inclined to be oblivious than anyone else.

FINALLY ... if anyone can tell me how I'm wrong about this, I am much, MUCH more receptive to correction than it might seem.

@bghira
Copy link

bghira commented Jul 30, 2023

Sorry, the standard Starlink cable is 50 feet. It's in their specs, and I confirmed it by measuring the old one that I pulled out.

used to be 75. but it's honestly too much distance. i was always cutting and shortening.

@TyraelTLK
Copy link

TyraelTLK commented Aug 11, 2023

I can't find passive poe injectors with 4 pairs. Is it possible to use 2 of these making 2 custom Y cable to use only the 2 powered pairs of each injector?

https://www.alfa.com.tw/products/apoe03g?variant=39871024889928

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Aug 11, 2023

Is it possible to use 2 of these making 2 custom Y cable to use only the 2 powered pairs of each injector?

Yes but you have to know exactly what you are doing and it's pointless since the Tycon, as documented above, works just fine so long as correct wire pairs are swapped. If you don't want to do that the one I posted links to on Amazon doesn't require the wire swap. Seriously though, the cable has to be cut with any of these solutions (except the two most recently posted) so attach the RJ45 modular plus and it really is no more difficult to crimp those on with the correct wire swap than it is to crimp them on without a wire swap. (Both are error prone of course.)

A single APOE03G costs the same as a single Tycon PoE (USD15 from Amazon, USD10+postage direct from Tycon).

@TyraelTLK
Copy link

From Germany I see the Tycoon no more available from your link. From another it's 30€ but long time delivery, I ordered 2 days ago and it should arrive 24th but it hasn't been shipped yet (but it's too late for me in anycase). The APOE03G is 9.85 + 5€, total 25€ and should be here in 2-3 days.
Thank you!
Let's see if I'll be able to put together something that'll work ;)

@sjkjs
Copy link

sjkjs commented Aug 12, 2023

The Reolink power supply is out of stock and I can't find an equivalent replacement where I live. DC power supplies don't seem to advertise whether or not the DC negative is connected to ground, it seems to be luck of the draw.

How can I make sure that the CAT5e shield is correctly grounded when using a POE-INJ-1000-WT PoE injector? It only has + and - inputs. There's no terminal for ground. Is it safe to take any random 48-52V power brick and ground its DC negative output?

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Aug 12, 2023

How can I make sure that the CAT5e shield is correctly grounded when using a POE-INJ-1000-WT PoE injector?

It's well documented in the Tycon specification; the PoE does a pass through on the shield. You need to use a PSU which is floating but general purpose PSUs should do that; the only one I've found that did actually ground the output was a LinkSys PSU designed for a particular piece of equipment. Test it first.

@sjkjs
Copy link

sjkjs commented Aug 12, 2023

It's well documented in the Tycon specification; the PoE does a pass through on the shield. You need to use a PSU which is floating but general purpose PSUs should do that; the only one I've found that did actually ground the output was a LinkSys PSU designed for a particular piece of equipment. Test it first.

The shield is meant to be grounded isn't it? I will be connecting the dish (via the PoE injector) to a network switch which is powered off a DC barrel jack and has a floating ground. So, if I used the Tycon injector and used its shield pass through, the shield would still be ungrounded at all 4 plugs (2 on the dish side, 2 on the switch side).

In this situation don't I need to explicitly provide it with a ground, or accept the risk of being ungrounded?

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Aug 12, 2023

In this situation don't I need to explicitly provide it with a ground, or accept the risk of being ungrounded?

Yes, the shield should be grounded somewhere. You have to make an explicit decision where to ground it unless the PoE injector does it. (The PoE injector for my other PoE aerial, from my original ISP, does ground the shield.) Normally nothing else in the cable run (including surge suppressors) will ground the shield.

In my StarLink arrangement I had the dish plugged in to a surge suppressor then from there to the Tycon WT then all the way to my router; this was in a box outside the house. I ran the drain wire out of one of the RJ45 plugs and just connected that to the same ground as the surge suppressor.

In the arrangement with my prior ISP I put a surge suppressor on the outside of the house, in a box, and had waterproof RJ45 sockets on that. IRC I had a shield pass-through to the PoE but I could have grounded the shield of the incoming RJ45 inside the box and arranged not to connect it on the outgoing connection to the PoE, or broken the connection to the PoE by using an unshielded cable in the last step (wall jack inside the house to PoE.)

NetGear PoE switches do ground the shield; for the ones with the wall-wart and the low voltage DC supplies there is a grounding screw on the case, for ones with built in AC power the shield is connected to the AC ground.

The rule, if there is one, seems to be to ground at the power supply; the PoE injector. All the switches I have provide shielded RJ45 sockets and all those shields are connected together. On one (a new TrendNET 10G switch) the shield is also connected to the power supply socket (12V 1A barrel connector). On another NetGear switch (non-PoE) the shield is isolated from the barrel connector. Since you are using a a switch I would expect every shielded cable plugged into it to be connected together so if any get grounded they all will be.

@sjkjs
Copy link

sjkjs commented Aug 13, 2023

I ran the drain wire out of one of the RJ45 plugs and just connected that to the same ground as the surge suppressor.

Thanks for the explanation. That all makes sense.

I'm using a Netgear GC110P PoE switch which doesn't have the shield grounded and also doesn't provide a grounding screw. The shield seems to be disconnected from everything.

I like your idea of using one of the spare RJ45 ports and running a drain wire to somewhere else that does have a ground. I might look at doing that too.

@darconeous
Copy link
Author

For what it's worth, I grounded my 200' setup at two places:

  1. Using a Cat-6 surge protector close to the antenna, ~120ft away from the house. This grounds the shielding and provides an arc path to ground for the twisted pairs.
  2. Grounding the shielding at the service entrance for the house, no surge.

The ground at the antenna is it's own ground spike. The ground at the house is the shared house ground (luckily I could run a wire to that on the exterior of the house). Unclear if I'm going to ultimately have galvanic problems. Hopefully not. Resistance between the two independent ground spikes is fairly low.

Originally both ground points were going to be full CAT-6 surge protectors, but I was having trouble with them increasing the resistance slightly so at some point I decided to just ground the shielding at the service entrance. That was before I switched to 52V, so perhaps I should revisit that... I'm hesitant to cut the wire though, since I can't un-cut it if it doesn't work out.

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Oct 6, 2023

Resistance between the two independent ground spikes is fairly low.

I'm very interested in knowing what that resistance is :-)

@darconeous
Copy link
Author

I'm very interested in knowing what that resistance is :-)

If I remember correctly, it was a few ohms. I don't remember what it was exactly, I just remember thinking "wow, that's lower than I expected". I have an outlet nearby with a ground that is connected to the house ground (not the ground that the antenna is connected to) so one day I got curious and pulled out the multimeter. But a low resistance makes sense, we have a lot of minerals in our clay-type soil that also has considerable moisture content. And I really buried that rod quite well.

I'm curious now, we just had a lot of rain. I can check again tomorrow.

@crdiaz324
Copy link

Is it possible to use 2 of these making 2 custom Y cable to use only the 2 powered pairs of each injector?

Yes but you have to know exactly what you are doing and it's pointless since the Tycon, as documented above, works just fine so long as correct wire pairs are swapped. If you don't want to do that the one I posted links to on Amazon doesn't require the wire swap. Seriously though, the cable has to be cut with any of these solutions (except the two most recently posted) so attach the RJ45 modular plus and it really is no more difficult to crimp those on with the correct wire swap than it is to crimp them on without a wire swap. (Both are error prone of course.)

A single APOE03G costs the same as a single Tycon PoE (USD15 from Amazon, USD10+postage direct from Tycon).

I've successfully used the techcharmer.com kit with my modified dishy without having to cut or swap any wires. The process involved connecting the provided cable from the kit to the plug in the back of the dishy, and subsequently to the POE's power output. Then I connected the POE to my router utilizing a standard ethernet cable I acquired from Amazon. This setup has proven to be incredibly reliable, running seamlessly for approximately 4 to 5 months. The kit was roughly $30. Hard to beat that IMO.

@JustOneGuyHere
Copy link

JustOneGuyHere commented Oct 20, 2023 via email

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Oct 20, 2023

@JustOneGuyHere; @crdiaz324 was commenting on his previous post from July:

https://gist.github.com/darconeous/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee?permalink_comment_id=4645398#gistcomment-4645398

It's worth noting that TechCharmer now sell that Tycon lookalike PSU with what appears to be YAOSHENG adapter I posted a link to (two posts down from the above). Here: https://techcharmer.com/collections/our-products/products/starlink-dc-adapter-kit The Amazon link I posted no longer works but it's here:

https://www.amazon.com/YAOSHENG-Rectangular-Adapter-Connect-Injector/dp/B0BYJTHX4P

It's a nice move by TechCharmer; they've undercut the YAOSHENG very expensive PSU ($81) with an adequate and well proven power supply (assuming it is one of the Tycons), but they certainly seem to be selling the YAOSHENG adapter as part of it. Everyone benefits. The only downside to the TechCharmer solution is that there is no surge protection that I can see, but there is none on the official StarLink router (aka incredibly expensive PSU) so far as I know.

@WIMMPYIII
Copy link

Has anyone tried the new gen3 kickstand dishy.
Wondering if power layout is the same and if we are good to use the same POE PCBs that we use on the gen2?
i know the power requirement is higher and closer to gen1 / beta unit power demand.

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Dec 14, 2023

The cable seems to be an RJ45 and there is a separate PSU (which powers the router which in turn powers the antenna):

https://www.starlinkhardware.com/starlink-gen-3-dish-launched/

Here is the StarLink "specification sheet":

https://api.starlink.com/public-files/specification_sheet_standard.pdf

So that's apparently RJ45 all the way which means StarLink are likely to either be using modern standards or the Gen1 design. The new router offers Gen1 compatibility but still uses the Gen1 PSU, so the Gen3 dish is most likely using the bt standard. Minimally the RJ45 connection to the dish has to be protected; think what happens if (when) someone plugs their device RJ45 into the StarLink port or plugs the Gen3 dish into a regular PoE.

The dish goes up in stated wattage, "75-100W" from the spec sheet, despite losing the motors. Losing the motors may well help with the connector arcing problem and, anyway, RJ45s are much easier to replace :-)

There's a picture of the power brick here:

https://www.starlinkhardware.com/starlink-gen-3-router-review/

and, zooming in, it's only faceplated at 60W (30V DC 2A) and it is a UL listed LPS, so unless Elon has built in one of those perpetual motion devices that's the maximum the dish can take on average. I'm guessing that the "spec sheet" is hooey and that the "100W" just corresponds to a peak current for a fraction of a second (as in the Gen2 measurements). The pictures on that page also show the router face plate and it lists "Input 1: 30V 1A", so I'm guessing that is just the router box, not the pass through to the dish.

One really weird thing is the compatibility of the router with the Gen2 dish; scroll down the last link above and you will see a picture of the setup. The new router is connected to what looks like the standard Gen2 ethernet dongle, read the text and you will see it is the configuration we all know and hate; the Gen2 (dish) router becomes a separate power brick for the Gen2 dish. Just goes to show what a dogs breakfast the Gen2 dish cabling is.

Even though the Gen3 dish is using what appears to be an RJ45 connector (it has an extra rubber boot) that doesn't mean that it is using a standard PoE solution; I'm just suggesting that given the widespread available of very efficient electronics (FETs instead of diodes for protection etc) it only really makes sense to use one of the standards. The standard implementations can deliver way more power than the power brick.

If the dish has "diode" style protection then it might still work with the swapped connectors so long as it is fine with 48V (not the 30V from the PSU) and so long as it doesn't do active negotiation. That said I wouldn't try it; connecting a passive PoE to an arbitrary device not explicitly documented as requiring the given voltage and wiring strikes me as dangerous.

It may be that the Gen3 dish can be connected safely to an active PoE; it may not work but the active PoEs are designed not to deliver more than a few volts unless the connected device does the right resistor dance. Still, absolutely no guarantees; given the wacky Gen2 dish wiring I regard any such non-approved connection as an experiment.

@WIMMPYIII
Copy link

I find it very odd that the power is said to be higher but the power supply is 30v 2a 60w vs 48v 2a 96w. gen1 brick is even a little higher at 56v.
I am disappointed that they dropped voltage to 30v. this is a really ugly in-between number and not as capable extending distance as 48-56v hardware. It could be alot more finicky adjusting for voltage and amp drop.
30v would not be a bt or any typical POE standard.
We need a brave soul with a gen3 to plug in a cable with isolated exposed pairs to do some pick testing while the dish is running. figure out what pairs are doing what and at what voltage.

@Shangrila385
Copy link

Shangrila385 commented Dec 15, 2023 via email

@WIMMPYIII
Copy link

I want to see a brick and cable combo that will carry a signal and voltage a long distance. I develop condo highrise projects. I see the need to put antennas on the roof and drop cable down 20 floors to individual units.. gen 2 will not work without major cable mods..  Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Friday, December 15, 2023, 1:09 AM, WIMMPYIII @.> wrote: Re: @. commented on this gist. I find it very odd that the power is said to be higher but the power supply is 30v 2a 60w vs 48v 2a 96w. gen1 brick is even a little higher at 56v. I am disappointed that they dropped voltage to 30v. this is a really ugly in-between number and not as capable extending distance as 48-56v hardware. It could be alot more finicky adjusting for voltage and amp drop. 30v would not be a bt or any typical POE standard. We need a brave soul with a gen3 to plug in a cable with isolated exposed pairs to do some pick testing while the dish is running. figure out what pairs are doing what and at what voltage. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub or unsubscribe. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS or Android.

On a building you could put an enclosure location with ac for the power brick and then 200ft or so down from the brick for a total of 330ft or less. This is a hard issue for a tower or tree installation though.

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Dec 15, 2023

I find it very odd that the power is said to be higher but the power supply is 30v 2a 60w vs 48v 2a 96w. gen1 brick is even a little higher at 56v.

As you say for PoE standards compliance the minimum voltage at the power injector is 50V, going up to 52V for 802.3bt "type 4" (the 100W variant). All I could find was the data for the power brick and the input of the the latest router (Gen 4?). The maximum voltage in the standards is still 57V, so if the new (Gen 3) dish is PoE 802.3 compliant there is a voltage doubler in the router; these are cheap to implement and very efficient in some of the charge pump implementations.

The PSU brick I found a picture of is apparently not the version distributed in the package with the Gen3 dish. The picture shows a two prong NA-only wall-wart (the prongs can't be changed) but the StarLink and other pages all show an AC cable in the full package and an IEC-320-C7 ("figure-8") socket on the PSU. The wall-wart is more than adequate for the new stand-alone router when used with Gen 1 and Gen2 because they both had separate power adapters for the dish itself.

It's even possible that the "real" PSU has multiple outlets and different voltages, but then I would expect the router to list multiple inputs.

We need a brave soul with a gen3 to plug in a cable with isolated exposed pairs to do some pick testing while the dish is running. figure out what pairs are doing what and at what voltage.

The Gen3 dishes still seem to be "invitation only", but the corresponding router is meant to be available for $199 on its own (possibly with a different PSU). Testing the router should not be a big problem, for one thing there won't be any voltage on an RJ45 breakout plugged in to the dish port after a fraction of a second if it's an 802.3 PoE.

@Shangrila385
Copy link

Shangrila385 commented Dec 15, 2023 via email

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Dec 15, 2023

So tell me what I need to know in plain English if you would. I think I would need rj45 cable, but what gauge and cable type is best?

You're at the limit of copper (twisted pair) Ethernet tech. You need to span a 200ft rise plus however many feet there are to the dish location and, at the other end, the router in someone's apartment (if I understand what you are trying to do). Twisted pair ethernet is limited to 100m (~328ft) max for all cable combinations. For StarLink you could drop from gigabit ethernet to 100Mbit but users can tell if they know how to check.

Your best bet is probably the Gen1 kit at present (since we don't know what Gen3 is yet...) Gen1 has a power injector and uses RJ45, I believe that allows the injector to be remote from the router. Alongside the 100m of Ethernet cable you run 100m of local code approved power cable (what this is varies enormously with region) correctly sized for the run length and local code requirements. In the US IRC it's something like no more than 10 or 20% power loss. This is discussed in this gist (the original stuff, right at the top!) In fact at 240V you can probably ignore this; 300ft of 14AWG power cable is about 5Ω (there and back), 100W at 240V is 1/2.4A, so that's under 1W loss in the cable if I got the arithmetic right.

With Gen3 if it really is possible just to use off-the-shelf RJ45 in place of the StarLink (150ft) cable then you need CAT5e (as used with Gen2) or CAT6 (including CAT6A). CAT6 normally uses 23AWG in the varieties of cable you would use but quadruple check that it really is (ideally measure the actual resistance!) Normally look for "pure" copper cable (not CCA - copper clad aluminum) but if you are buying a pre-fabricated cable (easiest, normally the best connections) check the actual resistance; send it back if it is too high.

Resistance figures vary, this site https://www.kbe-elektrotechnik.com/en/service/awg-table/ has 70.1Ω/km, so that 7Ω/100m. All 8 conductors are used in Gen2; we certainly don't know about Gen3 yet, so 100m has 7/4Ω there and back, 3.5Ω round-trip. So look at the original gist; the original assertion is that Gen2 becomes unstable at 2.5Ω. If that is correct you are limited to 70m for a CAT6 cable. Doing the same calcs for CAT5e at 24AWG, 89.2Ω/km, and I end up with a max run of 56m which is close to the longest, 150ft, official StarLink cable (CAT5e).

You could try a longer cable and check for stability of the system with the original router and, for Gen2, one or other of the ways of adapting the connectors at each end to RJ45 (minimizing the probably 24AWG CAT5e that is left.)

If you are actually building the structure then make sure there is building power on the roof, make sure the apartment (etc) owners/lessors pay for the shared power in their lease agreement, stick a suitable (SFP) router up there and run fibre to each floor, or maybe even each unit. Get some techie in to set up a commercial internet link, possibly a commercial StarLink one and do the maintenance (which will be required.) It is possible to do individual StarLink antennas with that arrangement but you put the routers in bypass mode on the roof and run the data down using VPN tech; techie required (a good one.)

@Shangrila385
Copy link

Shangrila385 commented Dec 15, 2023 via email

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Dec 15, 2023

On a general note WiFi-6 has a stated range of 45m; curiously close, well, the same as, the length of the longest StarLink Gen 3 cable. This is "line of sight" - i.e. nothing between the sender and receiver other than thin (we hope) air. WiFi-5 comes in at 25m or so, about 80ft, but I run WiFi (not WiFi 6 yet) between my own buildings which are about 100ft apart.

So a Gen3 with power and the standard (package) setup can, in fact, do a WiFi link at way more than the StarLink max speed to something 150ft away; WiFi-6 maxes out at 9.6Gbps. I manage that on my CAT5e Cu twisted pair network but only in a carefully tested setup; less than 100ft (maybe 50). In fact WiFi-5 at a theoretical 3.5Gbps is still way more than StarLink (residential) and my own copper network.

TP-Link (who I regard as reputable) have a range of "WiFi extenders" starting (based on Amazon prices) from $20 for a WiFi-5 one. So far as I can see it should be possible to use one of these to set up what is effectively a point-to-point solution; no need for copper or fibre. I've looked at p2p in the past but they have been somewhat more expensive ($100's rather than $10's) and often lower bandwidth (10Mbps).

The solution does require power at both ends but I find that fairly easy (at low power) even without solar.

@SailorBruce
Copy link

I have a CradlePoint router w/ a PoE++ (802.3bt) port that will push up to 60W. I don't live in a snowy area, so I plan to keep the snow melt off. My thought was that I could swap the pinouts to make the antenna work directly from the router as a PSE (power source equipment) and eliminate a whole bunch of custom cables, and a dedicated PoE injector. However, it doesn't seem to be working....

Is this possible? If so, how should I build the termination that comes out of the antenna and connects to the PoE router port?

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Feb 19, 2024

Is this possible?

No. The StarLink antenna doesn't support any of the PoE protocols so a PSE which uses them simply won't send out any power. The latest 802.3 standards have plenty of power but it would require a 48V 802.3bt PoE tap (a splitter) to get the 48V out , e.g:

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Industrial-Gigabit-PoE-Splitter/dp/B08KYHX1QS

Then it would be necessary to take the 48V output and wire it back to a passive injector... In other words pretty much twice as much work (you just save power cabling from the 802.3bt PSE to the PD, the antenna.)

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Feb 19, 2024

Off topic but still relevant to understanding the Gen 2 antenna here is a good, clear, description of how the 802.3 PoE standards work:

https://www.skyworksinc.com/-/media/SkyWorks/SL/documents/public/white-papers/understanding-the-ieee-8023bt-poe-standard.pdf

The circuit breakdown of the Gen2 router suggests to me that it lacks the electronics to do that, although it does seem to have the ability to measure current draw so there might be some communication capability there. The mixed up wiring of the ethernet pairs, however, prevents 802.3bt working; IRC the antenna looks like a shorted-out PD.

@WIMMPYIII
Copy link

I have a CradlePoint router w/ a PoE++ (802.3bt) port that will push up to 60W. I don't live in a snowy area, so I plan to keep the snow melt off. My thought was that I could swap the pinouts to make the antenna work directly from the router as a PSE (power source equipment) and eliminate a whole bunch of custom cables, and a dedicated PoE injector. However, it doesn't seem to be working....

Is this possible? If so, how should I build the termination that comes out of the antenna and connects to the PoE router port?

60w isnt going to cut it.

@SailorBruce
Copy link

SailorBruce commented Feb 19, 2024 via email

@WIMMPYIII
Copy link

WIMMPYIII commented Feb 20, 2024

Thanks for the info. I have a much better understanding of the issue now that I've failed a bit and read the SkyWorks doc. I now have working power and signal to the rectangular (gen2) dish. It makes sense that you have to flip the conductors to put power on the wires that Dishy wants, then swap the wires back so that the signal is back to where it is supposed to be. I'm still having problems though. About every 40-50 seconds, the PoE injector reboots. I get the same behavior with different cables, and when I plug dishy into my laptop or the router. This is from the router:
@.***: /]$ tcpdump -n -i starlinkvlan tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v[v]... for full protocol decode listening on starlinkvlan, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), snapshot length
262144 bytes
13:19:32.638287 IP 0.0.0.0.68 > 255.255.255.255.67: BOOTP/DHCP, Request
from 3a:30:44:66:d7:83, length 303
13:19:36.638274 IP 0.0.0.0.68 > 255.255.255.255.67: BOOTP/DHCP, Request
from 3a:30:44:66:d7:83, length 303
13:19:38.181021 IP6 fe80::2412:acff:fe1a:8001 > ff02::2: ICMP6, router
solicitation, length 16
13:19:39.698323 IP 0.0.0.0.68 > 255.255.255.255.67: BOOTP/DHCP, Request
from 3a:30:44:66:d7:83, length 303
13:19:42.788281 IP 0.0.0.0.68 > 255.255.255.255.67: BOOTP/DHCP, Request
from 3a:30:44:66:d7:83, length 303
13:19:46.244886 IP6 fe80::2412:acff:fe1a:8001 > ff02::2: ICMP6, router
solicitation, length 16
13:19:48.458300 IP 0.0.0.0.68 > 255.255.255.255.67: BOOTP/DHCP, Request
from 3a:30:44:66:d7:83, length 303
13:19:51.538347 IP 0.0.0.0.68 > 255.255.255.255.67: BOOTP/DHCP, Request
from 3a:30:44:66:d7:83, length 303
13:19:51.540257 ARP, Request who-has 192.168.100.100 tell 192.168.100.1,
length 46
13:19:53.556754 IP 192.168.100.1.67 > 255.255.255.255.68: BOOTP/DHCP,
Reply, length 300
13:19:53.578276 IP 0.0.0.0.68 > 255.255.255.255.67: BOOTP/DHCP, Request
from 3a:30:44:66:d7:83, length 315
13:19:53.588961 IP 192.168.100.1.67 > 255.255.255.255.68: BOOTP/DHCP,
Reply, length 300
If you wait 40 seconds, it happens again. When I am plugged into the laptop, I can get 18 (sometimes 17, but never 20!) ping responses before the interface goes down and the laptop reports no path to host. It is as if Dishy is expecting something from the router and when it doesn't get it it reboots.... To make sure I hadn't broken something, I plugged everything back into the Starlink router. I used a different (and tested) ethernet cable, but the same RJ45 keystone connector that is wired into Dishy. Everything worked swimmingly, so I didn't break anything when I cut the back off of Dishy for the mount (www.starmount.com, no affiliation). That was a relief, but still not helpful. The only thing that I haven't eliminated from the problem is the PoE injector. However, it is brand new and works fine when I power my Raspberry Pi and move lots of data through it. Does anyone have documentation on the exact meaning of the LED status lights on the Yaosheng Model: YSNEAPL12001A ? Is there an extra step that I have missed in configuring the network that Dishy creates?

How well have you read over this thread. 60w is not enough to run a SL gen2. You realistically need near 100w power supply run stable. Gen2 peaks at well over 60w. The stock power supply is 96w and is pushed to its absolute limit at 150ft.

@SailorBruce
Copy link

SailorBruce commented Feb 20, 2024 via email

@Missoulajeff
Copy link

Missoulajeff commented Feb 20, 2024 via email

@jbowler
Copy link

jbowler commented Feb 21, 2024

The PoE injector will support up to 120W. Once I have it more juice from the bench power supply, it all got stable. The 5A current limit was starving Dishy.

Ah! Yes; this is a reported problem with boost converters. It seems from my measurements that there is a sudden very brief amp draw at pretty much exactly the time you reported the PoE/dish reboot. Here's the data:

https://gist.github.com/darconeous/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee?permalink_comment_id=4466245#gistcomment-4466245

So there is a large inrush (maybe) just after 40s; around 3.4A (see the comments at the end of my post). Buck converters seem to handle this ok while some (at least) boost converters do not. The Yaosheng is apparently designed for a battery supply (12V or 24V) and that would give it a large surge capability. One contributor above uses a super-capacitor on the output side but I don't like that because, while it would handle an inrush, it could fry the connectors or the ethernet magnetics; better to put it on the supply side of the boost converter.

Here's an earlier, and more conservative, measurement of the power requirements, the amperage graphs above are likely to be more accurate:

https://gist.github.com/darconeous/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee?permalink_comment_id=4463407#gistcomment-4463407

I couldn't find Yaosheng documentation either. It seems likely that they have done the measurements properly (i.e. using better equipment than I have) to get robust designs but that doesn't mean they designed the 120W version to work off anything other than a battery...

On average the current draw at 48V without snow-melt or pre-heat is under 1A. During boot it goes up to maybe 1.4A but this corresponds to the effects (on the average) of the large inrush at 45s (3.4A). Adding snow melt (etc) seems to add maybe 0.25A. Solar systems with a 48V battery should be fine but they need to provide at least 1A continuous (over 24 hours) to keep the Dish up and running.

Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment